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Data Over Dogma

Data Over Dogma
Author: Daniel McClellan and Daniel Beecher
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© 2023
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This ain't your pastor's Bible podcast. This is a deep interrogation of the book, and we're bringing receipts. Bible scholar Dr. Dan McClellan and atheist podcaster Dan Beecher team up to discover what the Bible actually says, what it decidedly doesn't say (even if everyone thinks it does), and explore the history of the most popular book of all time.
131 Episodes
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This week, it's the story of Noah's ark! But WHICH story? Is it possible that there was more than one ark narrative floating around in the sea of antiquity? If so, how did the biblical authors handle the differences? We're taking the differing (even conflicting?!) narratives two-by-two onto our ship, and seeing what we can sort out. Here's hoping it's a sufficient number of cubits long!
Then, eat, drink, and be merry, because it's parable time, and if you're wealthy, this one doesn't work out so well for you. Luke chapter 12 has a bunch of stuff, but one of the prominent ones is the parable of the rich fool. What's the best way to hoard your money? Expand and diversify your portfolio? Not if Jesus has anything to say about it!
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This week, we're grabbing hold of the apocrypha with both hands and not letting go! Or is it deuterocanonical? I guess that depends on whose tradition you're looking at. Regardless, it's a weird book and there's a lot of interesting stuff to talk about.
Was it written during the exile, as it claims? What insights does it give us into the mindset of the time? Who the heck is Baruch???
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This week should be sponsored by that "adult play" company, because we're getting a little naughty! Or rather- the Bible got a little naughty (maybe), and we're just talking about it.
First, though, we're going to talk about one of those famous "judges" that the book of Judges was named for. It's the story of Gideon, and it has a lot going on! Did Gideon see God or an angel? Why did he ask for signs? Why is my hotel Bible named after him?
Then, it's time. We're going to talk about the... thing in the Bible that you don't write in the show notes. The biblical fun phallus. Is that actually what it is? We'll see!
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This week it's a johannine deep dive, and we brought in the big guns! Our guest is Hugo Méndez, Associate Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and all-around nice guy.
Hugo's book, The Gospel of John, a New History, is making waves in the world of Bible scholarship, and we're here for it. Grab a board, and let's surf those waves together!
Get the book here:
https://global.oup.com/academic/product/the-gospel-of-john-9780197686126?cc=us⟨=en&
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That's right- this week, we're going full Indy! Well... it's not like we're traveling to the ends of the Earth to keep the bad guys away from precious ancient artifacts, but we are going to talk about two of Dr. Jones' most important archaeological finds (thefts): the Ark of the Covenant, and the Holy Grail!
First, we're going to look at the Ark, that big box that Moses built. What is it? What's in it? What was it for and what did it do (other than melt N@zi faces off, obviously). We'll give you the skinny on those angels on top, and the name of the wood that it's made of.
Then: it's so elusive that the very mention of it is synonymous with being difficult to find. Is it the cup Jesus drank from at the last supper? Is it just a legend? Is it something weird having to do with a French bloodline and a self-flagellating albino monk? Whatever it is, we're on the hunt for the Holy Grail!
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It is one of the most important verses of the Hebrew Bible, and it's only six words! Well, six in Hebrew. In English, it's anywhere from nine to twelve words, depending on who's doing the translating. It's the Shema, a prayer from Deuteronomy still holy in Judaism.
But why is it so important? What makes that one verse so special? And for the love of all that's holy- why is it so hard to translate? What exactly do those six Hebrew words mean?
Then, we're heading back into the dark regions of the Apocrypha, and this time, it's the Letter of Jeremiah. What do we know about this text? Was it a real letter? Did Jeremiah actually write it? To whom?
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Was there prostitution in the temple? For a long time, there have been claims that the holy temples of ancient Judea included some form of sacred sex work. Where did this idea come from? Is it valid? And what does this conversation have to do with hate pastor and frequently wrong guy Doug Wilson?
Then, get out your magnifying glasses and call in Poirot, Sherlock, and the whole Scooby gang, because we're diving into a mystery! It's the case of the hidden Psalm, and it's a fun one. Have you finally made it through all 150 chapters in the book of Psalms and thought to yourself "you know, this could use one more"? Well you're in luck! But what is Psalm 151, and why is it not included in most Bibles?
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Will the real Christians please stand up?
This week, we're getting to the bottom of a very divisive issue. In a world where people in different sects of Christianity are constantly drawing lines in the sand, and declaring who counts as a "real Christian", can we look to the Bible itself to help us determine the truth? Or will the Dans just muddy the waters again?
In the second half of our show, we'll talk about the sons of God. Not the son, the sons. Plural. Who are these divine beings? And why are they looking at the human women like that?
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Ooooh MAMA! For a story that's thousands of years old, we sure do hear a lot about Jezebel. Or do we? Pastors and Christian influencers like Mark Driscoll and Charlie Kirk love to invoke the idea of "Jezebel spirit" whenever they don't like what a woman is doing. But is their portrait of the character of Jezebel honest, or are they just looking for a bludgeon to beat up women?
Then, we're looking at two groups that get mentioned a lot in the New Testament. Who are the Pharisees and Sadducees? Were they good guys? Bad guys? Just guys? What was their role in Jewish society at the time of Jesus, and is the Biblical account of them fair?
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Atonement! It's one of the central ideas of Christianity, and is absolutely essential to Christian theology... so what is it? You might be surprised to know that throughout Christian history, atonement has meant many very different things. On this week's show, we'll discuss the twists and turns this idea has taken, as influential thinkers have grappled with the idea of the atonement of Jesus.
Then, it's time to get lost in translation! Very few of us have put in the effort to actually learn to read ancient Hebrew, Greek, or Aramaic, and the ones who have are just a bunch of show-offs (lookin' at you, McClellan!). So if we want to read the Bible, most of us are stuck with translations.
But here's the thing: a Bible translation is WAY more complicated than people might think! It's a shockingly in-depth process, where thousands of decisions have to be made, and those decisions can deeply impact the meaning that gets transmitted. Yes, we're talking about choosing how to render a certain phrase or ancient idiom, but it's more than that. They have to choose which source text to use! There are competing source texts! It's a mess.
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It's a lie! This week we're looking at a very odd falsehood in the Bible. And the really weird part is that it's told multiple times, by multiple important biblical people, including the grand-daddy of the biblical lineage himself, Abraham.
Then, we'll look an interesting little bit of home decor from biblical times. Teraphim seem to be little humanoid icons that folks kept around the house, but what was the purpose of them? Were they small? Big? Both? Were they decorative art pieces, or important religious oracles? Or maybe just dolls for the kids? Dr. Dan will walk us through it!
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What does it mean to be "saved" in that uniquely Christian sense? It makes sense, if you're going to talk about a savior, that you would have people that that savior is saving. But where does this idea come from, and to whom does it apply. Heaven knows, even various Christian sects can't agree on this, but as is our wont here on the Data Over Dogma show, we're going to dig in to the topic, and make a big mess.
Then, we dive face-first into Isaiah 6, which is one of those prophecies that reads like a fever dream. Six-winged seraphim, temples filled with... something.... Let's just say that it takes a lot of explanation to make it all make sense.
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Have all of the prophecies about Jesus' death and resurrection already happened? Did the apocalypse come and go, and now we're just coasting?
Here's the thing about prophecies: the good ones are never specific enough! Sure, every now and then someone will come along and give exact dates and times for when some apocalyptic event is going to happen, but those guys are inevitably just proven wrong.
Then there are the other prophets. The biblical ones. They use heavy metaphors, preferring to talk about statues made of different materials, or beasts with the head of one animal and the claws of another, and we're left to try and piece together what the heck they're talking about. This conundrum has led to countless schools of thought regarding biblical prophecy, and today we're discussing one fairly prevalent (if controversial) one known as preterism.
After that, we'll look at the grand-daddy of prophecy itself: Revelation! Fire-and-brimstone preachers love turning to the apocalypse of John to terrify their congregations into a constant state of anxious preparedness, but it's possible those congregants wouldn't be quite as worried if they knew the full history of that book. Did the early church leaders love it, or was there maybe some controversy about its veracity? (Spoiler: it's that second thing)
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Forget the fourth of July- if you want real fireworks, you gotta check out the incendiary interview between Tucker Carlson and Ted Cruz. It was... a lot. But when two insufferable gasbags collide that hard, you're going to get a gas giant explosion. Just be glad you couldn't smell it.
One of the points of contention had to do with Israel, and Cruz's insistence that the Bible commanded him (and all believers) to take care of it. Ol' Ted might not have known what the exact scripture was, but he was positive that it said that he had to defend Israel no matter what. Tucker had a different take.
So is that what the scripture says? Are believers obligated to back the actions of Israel because the Bible says so, or is there more to the edict in Genesis?
Then we head to the nine verses of Psalm 137 to explore one of the more disturbing imprecatory prayers in the Bible. It couldn't really mean that it wants people to dash children against a rock, right? That's gotta be just a metaphor, right? Right???
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Ooooh! Dan McClellan has a bee in his bonnet, and her name is Allie Beth Stuckey!
This week we're looking at the parable of the sheep and the goats. In it, sheep are good, and goats are bad, and the Lord has some sorting to do. How do you get to be a sheep? Feed, house, clothe, and generally take care of your brothers and sisters. But that presents a problem for Allie Beth: who are her brothers and sisters?
Well, let's just say that Ms Stuckey and Dr McClellan do not agree on the best way to interpret Jesus in Matthew 25. It's a showdown! And Allie Beth doesn't come out looking like a sheep. It's the goat vs the G.O.A.T!
Then, we're getting positively archaeological up in here, as we explore some fascinating ancient papyri from a little island in the Nile river in southern Egypt. Elephantine island is a thousand miles from Israel, but the tiny community of ancient Hebrew people that lived there shed some incredible light on what Judaism might have looked like back then... and it might surprise you!
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What's your ethnicity? Who else is included in that group, and why do you draw those boundaries where you do? Well, this week we're bringing in hired-gun Bible expert Dr Aaron Higashi to walk us through the rich and sometimes confusing concept of ethnicity, and some of the surprising ways ethnic heritage plays out in the Bible (the Israelites ARE Canaanites? Whaaaaa???!) .
Then, we're going to delve into Biblical law. There's a lot of debate about which laws of the Bible apply to modern believers, and which don't. How should one decide? Well, we're going to look at two different domains: laws about food, and laws about sex. What can we learn about one set of laws by looking at the other?
Thanks so much to Aaron Higashi for filling in while McClellan continues to bounce all over the country. Find Dr Higashi's books and classes at the Bible for Normal People:
https://thebiblefornormalpeople.com/books-for-normal-people/1-and-2-samuel-for-normal-people-book/
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Were the authors of the Bible just writing firsthand accounts of events that actually happened? That's a pretty tough case to make. As a matter of fact, we have very good reason to believe that many of the stories of the bible have shared roots with many other stories/myths of ancient southwest Asia and northern Africa.
This week, we'll look at many of those stories, and discuss their parallels and origins from around the region. We'll discuss what evidence scholars use to come to these conclusions, and have some fun trying to figure out who came up with what first.
Then in our second segment, we'll look at Haggai. It's a book of only two chapters, and those chapters frankly don't seem like much on first blush. Is there more to Haggai than meets the eye?
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Welp it's June, and that means LGBTQIA+ Pride month! At least that's what it means for many. For a minority of people, June is national grumpy homophobe month.
One thing about the grumpy set is that they really love to use the Bible to shore up their dogmatic belief that gay folks (and trans and bi and all the other acronym-represented people) are going against God. So let's talk about it.
Our first segment is about pride itself. The word, that is. Is the rainbow community committing the worst of the 7 deadly sins every June? Pastor Mark Driscoll sure seems to think so.
Then we'll dive into some of the passages of the Bible folks use to justify their anti-LGBTQIA+ stance. Do those passages mean what those people say they mean? And even if they do, are modern believers required to follow them?
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For episode 116, we're venturing into the spooky world of divination! Many a Christian pastor has railed against this practice, but what if the medium used for divining isn't a rod or a stick, but THE BIBLE ITSELF!? Does that take the curse off it? Make it worse? Will it work to provide other-worldly guidance in your life? Is it forbidden? We... well, we might answer some of these questions...
But first, we take issue with one Mr Charlie Kirk. Ol' Chuck was pretty pleased with himself when he steamrolled over a college kid's question about whether Christians should be making a grab for the levers of political power. Brother Kirk's defense of Christian Nationalism was Biblical, in that it used scripture from the Bible as support, but was it correct? We'll see!
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This week we're getting all apocryphal, and diving headlong into Maccabees. Specifically, we're discussing the story of a mother and her sons in 2 Maccabees, chapter 7. This is the inspiring (?) tale of a family defying tyranny by refusing to eat, and all being brutally murdered for their trouble. And while the story itself is quite harrowing (and graphic!), it's small moments along the way that are actually worthy of some fascinating discussion.
Then we go to the gospel of John, where there might be something fishy going on. We have talked about other parts of the Bible where references to feet have actually been euphemisms for genitals. So what are we to make of the moment in John where Jesus washes the feet of his disciples?
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This episode is very important. maybe not the most important one. But it's very very important.
Not to mention these oppressors are the ultimate alien considering they're not the original natives.
What a great interview! I'm definitely buying her book, love her.
I call it Xitter (x pronounced like sh)
Harper College, not Harvard. Briefly.
The one with (or without) foreskin. 😃😃😃
"There's nothing wrong with making money off housing" are you sure about that?
if only the eagle & flag crew scrutinized anything Trump says/does half as much as they do the truth
Anyone who tells you they have an objective, facts only outlook on theology is selling something. These guys are no different. If you're interested in a "scholarly", atheistic, critical, cynical, antisemitic, and anti-christian take on Judeo-Christian "mythology," this is for you. They do bring some true and interesting linguistic and archeological context, but know they will frame it in the most cynical and demeaning way possible, and much of it is highly interpolated bull crap.
ADHD kicked in. brain came back to attention when it heard Metallica's "And Justice For All" mentioned. Now I'm unsure if it's also in the Bible. I'll just tell people it is anyway.
oof. First episode I listen to gets cut off at the end, and I'm told to pay to hear the end. Not a great start.
don't do this to me. I don't want your suggestions.
Maybe, maybe, Mery was tall.