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Divergent States cuts through psychedelic hype with grounded, skeptical conversations. Hosted by 3L1T3, founder of r/Psychonaut, the world’s largest forum dedicated to the safe use of psychedelics, and co-hosted by Bryan, a USMC veteran and advocate for psychedelic healing, the show examines the science, culture, and contradictions shaping the psychedelic landscape.
No mysticism. No marketing. Just data, lived experience, and hard questions.
We explore how psychedelics impact mental health, creativity, and society, from clinical trials to cultural fault lines. Nothing’s off-limits. Everything is up for scrutiny.
Guests include Rick Doblin, Reggie Watts, Leonard Pickard, Anne Wagner, Hamilton Morris, and Rick Strassman.
If you're looking for reverence, this isn't your show.
If you're after critical, intelligent dialogue about what psychedelics actually do, welcome to Divergent States.
New episodes every two weeks.
23 Episodes
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In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 sits down with Betty Aldworth, the new co-president of MAPS, as she steps into shared leadership with Ismail Ali following Rick Doblin’s four-decade run. Betty brings decades of experience in drug policy reform, from Colorado’s 2012 cannabis legalization campaign to leading Students for Sensible Drug Policy, and now helps guide MAPS through one of the movement’s most pivotal moments: the FDA’s rejection of Lycos Therapeutics’ MDMA-assisted therapy ap...
Dr. Bronner’s Cosmic Engagement Officer David Bronner joins Divergent States for a candid, nuts-and-bolts conversation about building an “All One” company culture, pushing for psychedelic policy reform, and rewiring global supply chains to be fair, transparent, and regenerative. We trace the lineage from Rainbow Gatherings to Burning Man, from hemp activism to MAPS, and from commodity brokers to farmer-first vertical integration. Co-host therapist Valerie Beltran helps press on the tradeoffs:...
Psychedelics are no longer the fringe—they’re reshaping medicine, culture, and consciousness itself. In this episode of Divergent States, 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Joe Moore, co-founder and CEO of Psychedelics Today, to explore the messy evolution of the movement: from the chaotic 1960s to today’s corporate clinics and grassroots revival. They trace Psychedelics Today’s origins, dive into the Vital training program, and discuss what it means to build trust in a scene that still distrusts ...
Comedian, musician, and improvisational genius Reggie Watts joins Divergent States for an unfiltered deep dive into psychedelics, creativity, and consciousness. From jamming on LSD and mushrooms to experimenting with dissociatives and even the Apple Vision Pro, Reggie opens up about how altered states shape his art, comedy, music, and worldview. We cover: Psychedelics in creative flow and improvisationDissociatives as “drug-induced float tanks”Saffron, ketamine, and unique mixes in performanc...
History shows politics can make or break psychedelic medicine, will we repeat the 1960s backlash, or finally move forward? In this episode of Divergent States, we explore the uneasy intersection of psychedelics and politics. MDMA remains a Schedule I drug—classified as dangerous with no medical use—while at the same time advancing through FDA Phase III trials. This contradiction highlights the limbo psychedelics face today: criminalized on one side, medicalized on the other. We revisit ...
In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Kabir Nath, CEO of Compass Pathways, and Dr. Steve Levine, Chief Patient Officer, to talk about the future of psychedelic medicine. From FDA approval and insurance coverage to patient access, cultural safety, and patents, we dig into whether Compass is truly disrupting the pharma model or just reinventing it. We also share a major community update: the official Divergent States Discord is now open to all of r/Psychonaut. Built by Brady and...
In this episode of Divergent States, host 3L1T3 and co-host Bryan sit down with Paul F. Austin, founder of The Third Wave and the Psychedelic Coaching Institute. We dive deep into microdosing psychedelics, intentional use for peak performance, and the rise of psychedelic coaching as a professional path. Paul shares insights from his book Mastering Microdosing, his vision for conscious entrepreneurship, and how psychedelics are reshaping the way we think about healing, creativity, and human po...
Amber Capone, co-founder and CEO of Veterans Exploring Treatment Solutions (VETS), shares the powerful story of how psychedelic therapy - starting with Ibogaine - helped her husband, Navy SEAL Marcus Capone, recover from PTSD and TBI when traditional care failed. We dive into the science and controversy behind Ibogaine, the limits of VA mental health care, and how VETS is paving the way for safe access to psychedelics like MDMA, psilocybin, and ketamine for veterans in need. Key Points: Amber...
What happens when the most hunted man in psychedelic history walks free and joins us for a conversation? In this deeply reflective episode of Divergent States, I sit down with William Leonard Pickard: chemist, philosopher, author of The Rose of Paracelsus, and the man once called the “Acid King.” After decades behind bars, Pickard returns with revelations about time, memory, suffering, redemption, and the spiritual cost of psychedelic pursuit. We discuss the rise and fall of the most infamous...
In this episode, 3L1T3 sits down with Dr. Anne Wagner, clinical psychologist and founder of Remedy, whose research pushes MDMA therapy beyond the individual — into the space between two people. We explore what happens when couples facing PTSD enter treatment together, why trauma rarely belongs to just one partner, and whether psychedelic medicine can transform relational patterns where traditional therapy fails. We also examine the ethical and emotional risks of dyadic MDMA therapy: consent, ...
A former U.S. Senator says the federal government is preparing to fast-track psychedelic medicines, especially for veterans with TBI, PTSD, addiction, and treatment-resistant depression. In this conversation, Kyrsten Sinema explains why the current administration is unusually aligned behind plant-based therapies, how Ibogaine and MDMA could move through the FDA faster than expected, and why small researchers, not Big Pharma, may end up shaping the field. We dig into: Ibogaine’s impact on Spec...
This week, we sit down with Kevin Cranford, Communications Officer at MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), to talk about the upcoming Psychedelic Science 2025 conference — what’s new, what’s different, and why it’s shaping up to be more than just another gathering. From navigating hype vs. science to MAPS’ comms strategy, Kevin shares how the org is threading the needle between community storytelling, rigorous research, and avoiding another "Wellness Industrial Comple...
In this powerful new episode of Divergent States, your hosts 3L1T3 and Bryan sit down with Tom Feegel—CEO and Co-Founder of Beond, a pioneering Ibogaine clinic based in Mexico, to discuss the unfiltered realities of healing, addiction recovery, and the evolving landscape of psychedelic-assisted therapy. Tom brings two decades of sobriety, a past life in global brand marketing, and deep experience navigating both the light and shadow of the psychedelic resurgence. This isn’t a conversation fu...
What does it mean to be a responsible psychonaut? In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down again with Valerie Beltran, licensed therapist, harm reduction expert, and educator with the Zendo Project, to unpack 7 core principles for navigating psychedelic states with intention, safety, and compassion. We break down everything from testing your stash to dismantling your ego, and talk about how these powerful tools can help us grow: not just as individuals, but as a culture. 🔑 Topics we c...
In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Alli Schaper, CEO of Supermush and co-founder of the Microdosing Collective, to explore the evolving world of functional and psychedelic mushrooms. Alli shares her journey into microdosing advocacy, the challenges of navigating the gray market for psychedelics, and the urgent push for policy reform to ensure safe, legal access. We dive into the science behind microdosing, its profound benefits for mental health, creativity, and even athlet...
In this deeply personal and eye-opening episode, we sit down with filmmaker JR Sawyers, the mind behind the indie psychedelic drama A Trip Elsewhere. What begins as a conversation about a film turns into a powerful exploration of transformation, healing, and consciousness. JR opens up about the psychedelic retreat that changed his life, the emotional weight of isolation during the pandemic, and how he turned those experiences into cinematic storytelling. We dive into the emotional architectur...
In this powerful episode of Divergent States, we’re joined by Valerie Beltran and Chelsea Rose-Pires of the Zendo Project- an organization redefining harm reduction and compassionate care at festivals, events, and beyond. We explore how the Zendo Project began as a MAPS initiative and evolved into its own nonprofit dedicated to supporting people through difficult psychedelic experiences and emotional crises, not with judgment or clinical detachment, but with radical empathy and peer support. ...
In this episode of Divergent States, we talk with Dylalien: psychedelic DJ, producer, schoolteacher, and longtime organizer of Goa Gil’s legendary all-night, open-air ritual dance parties. You’ve heard his music on this podcast, but in this conversation, we go deep on what it means to create and participate in psychedelic music culture at its most raw, weird, and transformative. Together, we explore: The life and legacy of Goa Gil, trance music’s spiritual godfatherThe influence of Hindu myst...
In this profound episode of Divergent States, we welcome Wendy Tucker, daughter of Ann Shulgin and stepdaughter of the legendary Sasha Shulgin, the "Godfather of Ecstasy." Wendy shares intimate stories of growing up at the iconic Shulgin Farm, working alongside Sasha in his lab, and her mission to preserve their legacy through the Shulgin Foundation. Key Topics Covered: Sasha’s Lab & Humble Genius: Wendy recounts behind-the-scenes moments with Sasha, his playful humor, and the creation of...
In this episode of Divergent States, we sit down with Rick Doblin, founder of MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies), for a raw, unscripted conversation on the future of psychedelic therapy, the dangers of hype, and the deeply personal reasons behind his decades-long mission. We go deep into: Why MDMA was criminalized and how Doblin outmaneuvered the DEAThe hard lessons from MAPS' FDA rejection and what's nextParenting and psychedelics: how both Rick and 3L1T3 approach e...
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