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EPIDEMIC with Dr. Celine Gounder and Ronald Klain

EPIDEMIC with Dr. Celine Gounder and Ronald Klain

Author: JUST HUMAN PRODUCTIONS

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EPIDEMIC is a twice-weekly podcast on public health and the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19). Hear from some of the world’s leading infectious disease and public health experts. We’ll help you understand the latest science, the bigger context, and bring you diverse angles—from history and anthropology to politics and economics—depth and texture you won’t get elsewhere. Hosted by Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist who has worked on tuberculosis and HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, and was an Ebola worker during the West African epidemic. And co-hosted by Ron Klain, the U.S. Ebola czar from 2014 to 2015. The COVID-19 pandemic may well be the defining moment of our times. Our lives have changed irrevocably. We need to understand the science so we can care for ourselves, our families, and our communities. And we need voices of reason to help us make sense of it all.Email us your questions at hello@justhumanproductions.org or tweet us @celinegounder and @ronaldklain. We’ll answer a couple of questions on the show each week.#SARS-CoV-2 #COVID19 #coronavirus
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Transcript“Just like cholera exposed the weaknesses in European society, COVID is doing the same for us. ...The bubonic plague and cholera for example were devastating pandemics, but they also lead to the creation of modern public health and sanitation. There’s still a chance for COVID to have its own silver linings, even if we can’t see them right now.” -Dr. Celine GounderPandemics have played a huge role in human history. The Black Death had huge implications for economics, politics, medicine, and religion, and it wasn’t the only disease to upend a civilization. In today’s episode of “Epidemic,” Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Dr. Josh Loomis and Dr. Frank Snowden about a few examples of how disease shaped the world we live in today, and what those events might tell us about what to expect after the COVID pandemic ends. Josh Loomis is a microbiologist and the author of Epidemics: The Impact of Germs and Their Power Over Humanity. Frank Snowden is a Professor of History and the History of Medicine at Yale University.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“We all believe that we need a national plan in the face of a national emergency, a United response for the United States… We're all in these parts of the same country. You can't control the pandemic without some degree of coordination.” - Ed YongWhat kind of coordinated national response is required for a national health crisis like COVID-19? Today on "Epidemic," Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Koh, Professor of Public Health Leadership at the Harvard School of Public Health, and Ed Yong, staff writer for the Atlantic. They discuss the "patchwork pandemic" we are experiencing, where the country is divided on how it's responding to -- and being impacted by -- COVID-19. They'll examine the degree of federal leadership that is required for an effective COVID-19 response, and the consequences suffered from failing to implement a nationally coordinated plan.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Despite all of those other cues, my white coat, my scrubs, you know, somebody just looked out the window and saw danger. And even the officers who came to talk to me couldn't override their biases that said danger.  And this is not a unique experience at all. I have friends, particularly black men who have trained at some of the best institutions in the country, that not only have these experiences with police, they have these experience with campus police as they're walking around, like going into research labs with their ID badges on. It is like this is a shared experience.”-Kafui Dzirasa, M.D., Ph.D.Today on "Epidemic," we will be hearing a bonus episode from our sister podcast, "American Diagnosis" about some of the issues around race and racism in medicine. In this episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Kafui Dzirasa, a psychiatrist and NIH-funded brain researcher at Duke University, about his journey climbing to the heights of biomedical research in the United States as a first-generation immigrant and a black man. We’ll hear how the legacy of slavery continues in science and medicine, Kaf’s advice on finding mentors, and how he’s handling the pandemic as a scientist and an African American.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#BlackLivesMatter #BLM #BlackInTheIvory
Transcript“So when will it come back? You know, I'm a historian, so I'm uncomfortable with predicting the future, but as a doctor, if I were making a prognosis, I would say it's going to come back.” — Dr. Howard Markel“It does get weary when you see the same mistakes being made over and over and over again. And many of the mistakes of past pandemics are being made today, particularly in how we're administering and reacting to it.“ — Dr. Howard MarkelWith states gradually starting to re-open, many are wondering whether we will face a second wave of infections. In today’s episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Markel, a physician and medical historian at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. They ask the question: can history help us prepare for the future? They discuss the lessons that the Influenza Pandemic of 1918 can teach us about COVID-19, and consider whether the history of the 1918 pandemic is repeating itself in present day.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"In our case, we're trying to transfer an antibody from one person to another. And it's actually a simpler idea because the recipient of an antibody RNA does not have to really respond to it. They just make it, and they have instant immunity." -Dr. James CroweIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. James Crowe, Director of the Vaccine Center at Vanderbilt Medical Center, about the next phase in antibody-based therapies, which is being spearheaded by Dr. Crowe’s lab at Vanderbilt. They are working on a technique to manufacture immunity in a test tube by isolating a single antibody for a disease that can be used to specifically target and fight that disease. They talk about the upcoming clinical trials of monoclonal antibodies for treatment of COVID-19, and how this method differs from convalescent plasma and vaccination. Finally, they discuss the next frontier- how science may soon take us beyond drug treatments and into a realm where our bodies are programmed to defeat a virus before we’ve ever encountered it… a true magic bullet.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"In the United States, we have a relatively low threat history. We're separated by two oceans from other continents. We haven't been afraid of Canada, Mexico, chronically invading us. We haven't been afraid of constant fury from mother nature. And so, as a result, we have a harder time tightening up than other countries under these conditions because it's hard for people to sacrifice the kind of liberty and freedom that we've had for constraints and rules.” - Michele GelfandIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder and former co-host Ron Klain interview two experts, Michele Gelfand and Howard Lavine, about why Republicans and Democrats are so deeply divided over almost everything to do with COVID. They discuss the shift towards identity politics and why people tend to vote along the lines of their chosen political party instead of in their best personal interests, and how this complicates different states’ responses to COVID. They also examine how a community’s history of threats in the past shapes their response to crises today.Michele Gelfand is a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland, and is the author of "Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World." Howard Lavine is the Associate Dean of Social Sciences and a professor of political science and psychology at the University of Minnesota. He's the co-author of the book "Open Versus Closed: Personality, Identity, and the Politics of Redistribution,” and the editor of the journal Advances in Political Psychology.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“With penicillin, for example, you needed a few days to begin to get better. With antibodies, these people got better within hours, almost as if the antibody was mediating an antitoxin effect.” - Arturo CasadevallIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Arturo Casadevall, Chair of the Department of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, about convalescent plasma, the transfer of antibodies from a disease survivor to a disease patient. They discuss the history of convalescent plasma transfer, how it has been used in the past during other infectious disease outbreaks, such as diphtheria and measles, and how the invention of antibiotics led to the decline of this treatment method in the United States. They also talk about the current research studies being done to test the effectiveness of this treatment method on COVID-19 patients. Our host also speaks with Michael Busch,  the Director of the Vitalant Research Institute, about how convalescent plasma transfer is currently being used as a treatment for COVID-19 patients at different stages of infection. They also discuss the process of convalescent plasma donation, something that anyone who has recovered from COVID-19 and now has antibodies can do.Listener Q&A: Should I go on an out-of-state trip with my husband’s family? I am antibody negative, how can I minimize the risk of becoming exposed to COVID-19 on the trip?This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“I think there's always sort of like Indian humor with everything and so there were a lot of people making jokes about Trump putting a travel ban in place to stop the spread of disease from Europe. A lot of native people on Twitter and Facebook were commenting that it was, you know, a few centuries too late." -Rebecca NagleIn this episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Rebecca Nagle, Dr. Melissa Begay, and Jamescita Peshlakai about why the Navajo Nation has been so hard hit by COVID, and what their communities are doing to protect everyone—young and old—during this pandemic. The Navajo Nation is the nation’s largest indigenous tribe and has the highest per capita infection rate of COVID in the United States.Dr. Melissa Begay is a member of the Navajo Nation, and a physician at the University of New Mexico in the Department of Pulmonary, Sleep and Critical Care. Jamescita Peshlakai is an Arizona State Representative and represents eight tribes in her district, including the Navajo. Rebecca Nagle is an Indigenous rights activist, writer and speaker, and a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. She also hosts the Crooked Media podcast, “This Land,” about a Supreme Court case on the land rights of indigenous peoples in Oklahoma.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Terrible diseases like smallpox, polio, yellow fever where, you know, the capital in the United States in those days, Philadelphia, in the 1700s, 10% of the population died. When you vaccinate against them, you prevent them, and they no longer are problems.” - Seth BerkleyIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Seth Berkley and Dr. Peter Hotez about a topic that has received a lot of attention lately-- vaccines. They discuss the processes involved in developing a vaccine for COVID-19, including when we can realistically expect a vaccine to become available to the public. They talk about the concept of herd immunity and how high vaccination rates are an essential component to this process. They also discuss the anti-vaxxer movement and how mis-messaging may be playing a part in fueling the flames of this movement in regards to a COVID-19 vaccine. Finally, they talk about the need for continued vaccine research in order to be prepared for the next inevitable pandemic.Also, co-host Ron Klain says his farewell to “Epidemic” fans as he announces that this will be his final episode as a co-host of the podcast.Seth Berkley is the CEO of the GAVI Vaccine Alliance. Dr. Peter Hotez is Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
We’re going to hold the release of our next episode until tomorrow.The show must be paused.Consider this a moment of silence... a pause… in honor of George Floyd’s memory.This is a moment in which we should all take a knee… and take a stand against police brutality against the black community. When we should all ask… why have we’ve accepted laws and institutions… that lead people of color to get sick and die… in such higher numbers from the coronavirus… than the rest of us.This is a moment when… all of us… all of us Americans… must honor all the people of color in our nation who’ve died wrongly… needlessly… and senselessly.And so… let us pray for our country… let us contemplate a new way… let us hope… for a better future together.
Transcript"I think there are some people who are afraid that the truth will hurt the economy. That if we let CDC speak the truth, that will hurt stock prices, that will hurt people's jobs and the manufacturing sector. But even when the truth may hurt, even when it's painful, we've got to know the truth. And right now, people are taking steps to keep CDC from speaking the truth.” -Dr. Mark RosenbergIn this episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak to former CDC scientists Dr. Mark Rosenberg and Dr. Jim Curran about the CDC’s lack of action during the COVID pandemic, and how CDC guidelines and research have been suppressed and muzzled. They discuss the agency’s complicated history with politicians, parallels with the HIV epidemic, what’s happening to the CDC’s work in the time of COVID, and what’s at stake when politics take precedent over science. Dr. Mark Rosenberg is a retired medical epidemiologist with the CDC and President Emeritus of the Task Force for Global Health. Dr. Jim Curran led the CDC’s HIV/AIDS Division before becoming an Assistant Surgeon General and now Dean of the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
“Antibodies are the easiest part of the immune system to measure. It's not the only part that's required for protection against this virus.” - Stanley PerlmanIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain continue their discussion of the immune system. They speak with Stanley Perlman and Dr. Jon Yewdell about what happens when a virus enters the body and the different types of cells involved in each stage of the immune response against the virus. They talk about what is known so far about how the immune system reacts to a COVID infection and the degree of immunity that results post-infection. They also discuss how understanding the immune response is an important factor in developing an effective vaccine for COVID and putting an end to the current pandemic.Stanley Perlman is a professor of microbiology, immunology and pediatric infectious diseases at the University of Iowa. Dr. Jon Yewdell is a researcher at the National Institutes of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, where he studies viruses, immunity to viruses, and the cell biology of viral infections.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Every night... we are literally cheering and clapping and beeping our horns for people that in many ways we're unwilling to fight for so that they could have $15 an hour. We call people essential workers now who we treated for so long, like anything but essential.” -Rashad Robinson In this episode, our co-host, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Rashad Robinson, Alicia Garza, and Marshall Ganz about essential workers such as caregivers, domestic workers, and agricultural workers. They discuss how these low-paying jobs are often staffed by immigrants and people of color, and how due to systemic racism these jobs have historically been excluded from laws and unions that protect workers. Essential workers are now being given the false choice between going to work and risking their health, or staying home and not being able to feed their families. Alicia Garza is the principal at Black Futures Lab, the co-creator of the Black Lives Matter Global Network, and the strategy and partnerships director for the National Domestic Workers Alliance. Rashad Robinson is the President of Color of Change, a racial justice organization, and Marshall Ganz is a labor organizer and senior lecturer at the Kennedy School of Government at Harvard University. This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“A lot of people don't realize this, but there are other cold-inducing coronaviruses that give us the common cold that we've all had in our lives, and some of those coronaviruses can give you antibodies that would give a positive test on some SARS-CoV-2, COVID tests.” – Dr. Matt MemmoliIn this episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain discuss the science of the immune response and the role antibodies can play in how the immune system responds to an infection. They talk with Kaitlyn Sadtler, PhD, an investigator at the National Institutes of Health, and Dr. Matt Memmoli, director of the Lab of Infectious Diseases Clinical Studies Unit at the National Institutes of Health, about how the body builds immunity to future infections, as well as how scientists determine how long such immunity will last. Does someone who has experienced a COVID-19 infection acquire lasting immunity to the virus?Matt and Kaitlyn also discuss their own research and how it can help better determine the spread of coronavirus infection in the United States, as well as better understand whether the presence of antibodies confers immunity against future COVID-19 infections.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"Still, like 90% of our patients are COVID patients. This is still not normal.” -Dr. Celine GounderIn this episode, our co-host, Dr. Celine Gounder, shares how her experience treating patients at Bellevue Hospital in New York City is different in early May 2020 than it was March and April.In addition, Dr. Gounder and co-host Ron Klain speak with Dr. Geoffrey Baird at the University of Washington School of Medicine in Seattle on why his hospital was way head of the rest of the country in testing for COVID-19 and what some of the challenges are likely to be going forward.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"I can't stress this enough. Rudy Gobert testing positive was the best thing that happened for the NBA. It arguably, in many ways, is the best thing that happened for this country. I don't think people were taking this seriously, Celine, until they found out an entity like the NBA could suspend its season because of the coronavirus.” -Rohan NadkarniIn this episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak to Rohan Nadkarni, Grant Wahl, and Peter King and look at the pandemic through the lens of basketball, soccer, and football to see how COVID is changing the way sports are played. They discuss what these games might look like for fans and players when they resume, how COVID is affecting the business of sports, and what the consequences are of trying to play sports in the middle of the pandemic. Grant Wahl is America's leading soccer journalist. He spent 24 years at Sports Illustrated, covering college basketball and soccer, and is the author of the New York Times bestseller, “ The Beckham Experiment,” as well as “Masters of Modern Soccer.” Rohan Nadkarni covers basketball for Sports Illustrated. Peter King covers football for NBC Sports, is the author of five books, and has been named National Sportswriter of the Year three times.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“It's scary for everybody, but imagine yourself being someone that can't socially isolate, that has no home, that doesn't have a TV and doesn't know what's going on. And all of a sudden, everyone has disappeared.” -Cindy Funkhouser, CEO Sulzbacher CenterIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with three advocates working to end homelessness. Rosanne Haggerty is the founder of Community Solutions in New York, and Jack Maguire the co-director of the Built for Zero Initiative at Community Solutions. These organizations work with more than 80 cities using data to prevent homelessness, build and sustain homeless response systems, and deliver affordable housing. Dr. Gounder and Ron Klain also talk with Cindy Funkhouser, the CEO of the Sulzbacher Center in Jacksonville, Florida. The Sulzbacher Center works to address all aspects of homelessness through a continuum of care. They discuss what it means to be homeless in America during the time of COVID, and how to address the additional challenges people experiencing homelessness face during this time.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“We want to make sure everybody's prepared because we know COVID 19 is just one epidemic that we're currently facing. There's going to be another one in the pipeline, and we need to make sure that we're investing today for tomorrow.” - Syra MadadIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Syra Madad, Senior Director of the Special Pathogens Program, New York City Health and Hospitals. Syra shares her experience preparing for a potential disease outbreak like SARS in New York City, and how this preparation helped to lay the foundation for healthcare professionals in New York during the COVID pandemic. They also talk about Syra’s personal experience being diagnosed with COVID while living in a home with small children and at-risk persons. Dr. Gounder and Ron Klain also talk to Dr. John Lynch, Medical Director for Infection Control at Harborview Medical Center in Seattle. They discuss how Washington, the state with the first confirmed case of COVID in the US, took action through house assessments to test as many people as possible with COVID symptoms, and how this process changed once community spread began to widely take place. Finally, they speak with Reid Wilson, a reporter with The Hill. They talk about how the epicenter of the coronavirus is making its way from large cities, such as Seattle and New York City, to more rural areas of the US, including Native American reservations, and why this is worrisome. They also discuss how, even as some states begin reopening, many Americans do not feel like they are ready to return to normal life.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“We’re not working from home because we want to. Many of us are working from home because we have to. We are all thrust into this social distancing as a result of the pandemic, and in a very short time, we’ve had to adapt to some very unusual circumstances.” - Dr. William Kassler, Chief Medical Officer, IBMIn this episode, Dr. Celine Gounder talks to Adam Grant, a professor at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania. They discuss work during a pandemic and which companies are taking considerations to continue to take care of their employees, and which companies aren’t. They also discuss what good leadership during a crisis really looks like, and whether the COVID-19 pandemic may change the kinds of benefits that employers offer their employees. Finally, they discuss how companies can improve their work-from-home culture, as well as how their pandemic may change people’s work-life/home-life balance permanently.Dr. Gounder also speaks with Dr. William Kassler, the Chief Medical Officer for IBM, and Katie McGrath, co-CEO and Chief Strategy Officer at Bad Robot Productions about discuss mental health during a crisis, and how companies can best support their workers’ mental health during this uncertain time. They also discuss the importance of developing resilience and what exactly this entails.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“COVID-19 is the great revealer. It’s showing every crack and fault in the healthcare coverage system.” - Dr. Donald BerwickIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Dr. Donald Berwick, former administrator for the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services and senior fellow for the Institute for Healthcare Improvement, about how COVID-19 has exposed the vulnerabilities of the U.S. healthcare system to a public health crisis. They also discuss how the Affordable Care Act has provided a safety net for many Americans during these uncertain times, and how coronavirus relief bills, the CARES Act, attempt to address further gaps in the system. Finally, they discuss how both rural and urban hospitals will be affected by the pandemic from an economic standpoint.They also speak with Karen Pollitz, a senior fellow at the Henry J. Kaiser Family Foundation and a four-time cancer survivor, about how important it is to have health insurance coverage when a crisis strikes, and how terrifying it can be to lose coverage during these times. Karen also explains options for those who have lost coverage and are struggling to figure out how to cover themselves and loved ones during this unpredictable time in our country, and how to weigh their options, depending on individual circumstances.Listener Q&A: How does contact tracing and quarantine work for a disease where many cases are asymptomatic and many do not even realize they are sick?This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
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Comments (13)

ID17422805

its actually a PANdemic....

May 9th
Reply

Anthony George

Oh....a shit on Trump episode and praise the phony Jesus. I guess I can delete from my list. Thanks for the limited info

Apr 10th
Reply

Shari Lynn

I know that my homemade masks are not as good as n95 masks. I'm making masks for organizations like Meals on Wheels and homeless shelters where they don't have access to masks and PPE like the big hospitals do. Seems to me that is better for these organizations to have masks than none at all. I don't own a restaurant in New York City or elsewhere so I can't provide food to healthcare workers on the front lines. so I'm going to continue sewing for organizations that have no PPE at all. I hope that these masks can prevent the spread of disease among the most vulnerable among us.

Mar 24th
Reply

Johnson Johnson

aimed at a US audience

Mar 11th
Reply

Winston Smith

if you want good information about what is going on check out "cronovirus central". full disclosure the creator is considered to be on the right, he makes a conscious effort in expressing his biased.

Mar 9th
Reply

Tommy Lee

stop trying to make political points. Shame on you. Some things are too important to to insert your politics into. Going elsewhere for unbiased advice.

Mar 4th
Reply (1)

Winston Smith

lol, this is nuts...they speak about how this shouldn't be politicized while they constantly take shots at conservatives and the current administration. horrible podcast if you want to hear about what's going on...its a great podcast if you want an echo chamber about the bad orange man.

Mar 2nd
Reply (4)

Nuage Laboratoire

text

Mar 2nd
Reply
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