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EPIDEMIC with Dr. Celine Gounder

EPIDEMIC with Dr. Celine Gounder

Author: JUST HUMAN PRODUCTIONS

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EPIDEMIC is a twice-weekly podcast on public health and the coronavirus (SARS-CoV-2 / COVID-19). Hear from some of the world’s leading infectious disease and public health experts. We’ll help you understand the latest science, the bigger context, and bring you diverse angles—from history and anthropology to politics and economics—depth and texture you won’t get elsewhere. Hosted by Dr. Celine Gounder, an infectious disease specialist and epidemiologist who has worked on tuberculosis and HIV in sub-Saharan Africa, and was an Ebola worker during the West African epidemic. And co-hosted by Ron Klain, the U.S. Ebola czar from 2014 to 2015. The COVID-19 pandemic may well be the defining moment of our times. Our lives have changed irrevocably. We need to understand the science so we can care for ourselves, our families, and our communities. And we need voices of reason to help us make sense of it all.Email us your questions at hello@justhumanproductions.org or tweet us @celinegounder and @ronaldklain. We’ll answer a couple of questions on the show each week.#SARS-CoV-2 #COVID19 #coronavirus
47 Episodes
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Transcript“If we want to bring students back to college, we have to redefine what college is for the short term… and so we need to think about it with more innovation and depth of thought if we would if we were just applying crisis management models.” —Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of ConnecticutThe college experience will look very different for many students gearing up to re-enter schools in the fall. How can colleges prepare to bring students back on campus — if at all? Today, we hear from Eleanor Daugherty, Associate Vice President for Student Affairs and Dean of Students at the University of Connecticut; Dr. Amy Gorin, Professor of Psychological Sciences at UConn; Dr. Rochelle Walensky, Professor of Medicine at Harvard Medical School; and journalist Allison Slater Tate, about the logistics and planning required to safely resume school in the fall. They discuss social distancing and masking policies on campus, potential scenarios for testing, and the effect this will all have on students’ college experiences.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“The goal is not to reopen schools; it’s to keep schools open. And if we reopen too fast, just as we reopened States too fast, you saw what happened. States had to shut down and schools would have to shut down. And that for me would be just a travesty. You re-traumatize children and further endanger… their parents and teachers and bus drivers and custodians.” - Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of EducationNormally at this time of year, students would be gearing up for the back-to-school season. But this year, school will look very different for students across the nation. And an even bigger question remains: should schools be opening at all? On today’s episode, we hear from Arne Duncan, former US Secretary of Education from the Obama administration, Stephanie Gounder, a charter school principal in Houston, and journalist Allison Slater Tate. Together, they look back at the impact of remote learning on students, parents, and teachers, and discuss how schools could safely reopen — if at all.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Now that we see them, my hope is that our field of vision about who is working, and just how valuable they are, continues to widen. And that is it's not only about awareness and clapping for them at seven o'clock at night, but we're actively taking action and demanding that they be protected. Demanding that they be compensated. Demanding that they are able to keep their themselves and their families safe, crisis, or no crisis. “ - Ai-jen Poo, Director of the National Domestic Workers AllianceThe workforce of domestic employees is comprised largely of women and women of color. This group has been severely impacted by COVID-19, facing job insecurity, lack of paid sick days, and low wages. The pandemic relief bills passed by the Senate for essential workers had conspicuously excluded domestic workers, leaving them vulnerable to disruptions caused by the pandemic. In today’s episode, we hear from Ai-jen Poo, the Director of the National Domestic Workers Alliance; Susie Rivera, a home caregiver in Texas; and Glewna Joseph, a housekeeper. We discuss the ways in which their work has been changed by COVID-19, how the pandemic has brought awareness to the need for increased protection of domestic workers’ rights, as well as the steps being taken to bring about these much-needed changes.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards are open through July 31st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“I literally love my job… and being able to wake up and the end of the day and also say … I possibly helped save a life.” — Kimberly JocelynContact tracers like Kimberly are an integral part of New York City’s plan to reopen safely. If someone tests positive for COVID, contact tracers make it possible to determine which network of people may have been exposed to the virus. But, contact tracers are also tasked with the delicate job of informing someone of their possible exposure. On today’s episode, we speak with Maryama Diaw and Kimberly Jocelyn, who are both contact tracers in New York, about their experiences on the job. We also hear from Dr. Jay Varma, a physician and epidemiologist in New York City, about the science behind contact tracing.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“I don't have any plans on returning in the immediate future. I don't want history to record that COVID grew in America because of irresponsible religious groups… I want to make sure that we are good stewards of health and responsibility.” - Dr. Jamal BryantCOVID has closed down many religious spaces, profoundly impacting faith communities. Many rituals have been disrupted, and social distancing guidelines are preventing people from gathering. In today’s episode, we hear from Rabbi Elliot Cosgrove, senior rabbi of Park Avenue Synagogue, and Pastor Jamal Bryant of New Birth Missionary Baptist Church. Together, they’ll be examining a question people of all religions are asking right now: what does it mean to be a member of a faith community during a time of social distancing?Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Loneliness is something we hear a lot from individuals in our community. It's a time of physical distancing. And at first, this was really articulated as social distancing. And I think that's a problem. Yes, we are physically disconnected, but that doesn't mean that we're socially disconnected.” — Lucy FlammSince COVID swept through the world, shelter in place and social distancing measures have kept us physically apart from our friends, families, and communities. Loneliness and isolation are pressing concerns as social distancing recommendations continue to be in place. But, being physically apart doesn’t mean that we can’t still come together. In a time of physical separation, mutual aid societies — local networks of neighbors helping out neighbors with anything from picking up groceries to pooling money for tires — are an example of community-building during COVID. In today’s episode, we hear from Dr. Julianne Holt-Lunstad, a psychologist at Brigham Young University that studies the health effects of loneliness. Then, we hear stories from members of the Cambridge Mutual Aid Society — organizing volunteer Lucy Flamm; Jeff Howe, a neighborhood pod leader; and Jackie Jones, a community advocate, and mutual aid recipient — about how COVID and mutual aid has changed their communities.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"...the pandemic has simply highlighted for some people that hypocrisy, where politicians use so-called medical reasons, protecting women's health, as an excuse for what are really political goals, which is to end access to safe and legal abortion writ large." -Cecile RichardsThe COVID-19 pandemic has had profound effects on women's’ access to abortion services and reproductive health. In some states, abortion was categorized as elective surgery, and procedures were suspended. In today’s episode, we hear from Cecile Richards, the former president of the Planned Parenthood Federation of America, Kersha Deibel, President and CEO of Planned Parenthood Southwest Ohio, and an abortion provider. They discuss the barriers to reproductive health access raised by COVID-19, the disparities this causes, and the impacts on women and healthcare providers.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“They say, you need to keep a minimum of six feet distance between people, but we're usually within 10 inches of our clients for the entire time that they are in the salon. The biggest risk is when you're in extended or prolonged, rather contact with somebody and the CDC defines that as more than 15 minutes. I don't know if you've ever had a haircut that took less than 15 minutes, but generally speaking, we cannot social distance from our clients.” - Nicola CorlWith the economy re-opening, many workers in America are choosing between protecting their own health and protecting their businesses. This is particularly striking for hands-on workers - like hairstylist Nicola Corl, make-up artist Latia Curtis, and massage therapist Shannon Adams - who cannot work from home or socially distance from their clients. In today’s episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Nicola, Latia, and Shannon, about how coronavirus has impacted their industries, and how they have personally balanced business and health during the pandemic.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“An immunity passport system would create a two-tier system because it would divide all of us into those who are immune to COVID-19 and those who are not. And the people who are immune will get all of the benefits and privileges that come with that while everybody else who's not immune will be in a second class status.” - Esha BhandariHow do we balance the reopening of the economy with public health and safety? Some have proposed an “immune passport” system, where those with proven COVID immunity could be cleared to resume normal work and life. This idea is not a new one — it has been tried once before during the 19th-century Yellow Fever epidemic. In today’s episode, we examine the insidious use of “immune privilege” during the Yellow Fever epidemic, its historical impacts, and its parallels to today. Our host, Dr. Celine Gounder, speaks with Dr. Juanita Mora, an allergist and immunologist practicing in Chicago, Dr. Kathryn Olivarius, professor of history at Stanford University, and Esha Bhandari senior staff attorney with the ACLU Speech, Privacy, and Technology Project.Nominations for the 2020 People's Choice Podcast Awards opened on July 1st. To show your support, please go to podcastawards.com and nominate us in the People’s Choice and Health categories.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Just like cholera exposed the weaknesses in European society, COVID is doing the same for us. ...The bubonic plague and cholera for example were devastating pandemics, but they also lead to the creation of modern public health and sanitation. There’s still a chance for COVID to have its own silver linings, even if we can’t see them right now.” -Dr. Celine GounderPandemics have played a huge role in human history. The Black Death had huge implications for economics, politics, medicine, and religion, and it wasn’t the only disease to upend a civilization. In today’s episode of “Epidemic,” Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Dr. Josh Loomis and Dr. Frank Snowden about a few examples of how disease shaped the world we live in today, and what those events might tell us about what to expect after the COVID pandemic ends. Josh Loomis is a microbiologist and the author of Epidemics: The Impact of Germs and Their Power Over Humanity. Frank Snowden is a Professor of History and the History of Medicine at Yale University.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“We all believe that we need a national plan in the face of a national emergency, a United response for the United States… We're all in these parts of the same country. You can't control the pandemic without some degree of coordination.” - Ed YongWhat kind of coordinated national response is required for a national health crisis like COVID-19? Today on "Epidemic," Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Koh, Professor of Public Health Leadership at the Harvard School of Public Health, and Ed Yong, staff writer for the Atlantic. They discuss the "patchwork pandemic" we are experiencing, where the country is divided on how it's responding to -- and being impacted by -- COVID-19. They'll examine the degree of federal leadership that is required for an effective COVID-19 response, and the consequences suffered from failing to implement a nationally coordinated plan.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Despite all of those other cues, my white coat, my scrubs, you know, somebody just looked out the window and saw danger. And even the officers who came to talk to me couldn't override their biases that said danger.  And this is not a unique experience at all. I have friends, particularly black men who have trained at some of the best institutions in the country, that not only have these experiences with police, they have these experience with campus police as they're walking around, like going into research labs with their ID badges on. It is like this is a shared experience.”-Kafui Dzirasa, M.D., Ph.D.Today on "Epidemic," we will be hearing a bonus episode from our sister podcast, "American Diagnosis" about some of the issues around race and racism in medicine. In this episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Kafui Dzirasa, a psychiatrist and NIH-funded brain researcher at Duke University, about his journey climbing to the heights of biomedical research in the United States as a first-generation immigrant and a black man. We’ll hear how the legacy of slavery continues in science and medicine, Kaf’s advice on finding mentors, and how he’s handling the pandemic as a scientist and an African American.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#BlackLivesMatter #BLM #BlackInTheIvory
Transcript“So when will it come back? You know, I'm a historian, so I'm uncomfortable with predicting the future, but as a doctor, if I were making a prognosis, I would say it's going to come back.” — Dr. Howard Markel“It does get weary when you see the same mistakes being made over and over and over again. And many of the mistakes of past pandemics are being made today, particularly in how we're administering and reacting to it.“ — Dr. Howard MarkelWith states gradually starting to re-open, many are wondering whether we will face a second wave of infections. In today’s episode, Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. Howard Markel, a physician and medical historian at the University of Michigan School of Public Health. They ask the question: can history help us prepare for the future? They discuss the lessons that the Influenza Pandemic of 1918 can teach us about COVID-19, and consider whether the history of the 1918 pandemic is repeating itself in present day.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"In our case, we're trying to transfer an antibody from one person to another. And it's actually a simpler idea because the recipient of an antibody RNA does not have to really respond to it. They just make it, and they have instant immunity." -Dr. James CroweIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Dr. James Crowe, Director of the Vaccine Center at Vanderbilt Medical Center, about the next phase in antibody-based therapies, which is being spearheaded by Dr. Crowe’s lab at Vanderbilt. They are working on a technique to manufacture immunity in a test tube by isolating a single antibody for a disease that can be used to specifically target and fight that disease. They talk about the upcoming clinical trials of monoclonal antibodies for treatment of COVID-19, and how this method differs from convalescent plasma and vaccination. Finally, they discuss the next frontier- how science may soon take us beyond drug treatments and into a realm where our bodies are programmed to defeat a virus before we’ve ever encountered it… a true magic bullet.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript"In the United States, we have a relatively low threat history. We're separated by two oceans from other continents. We haven't been afraid of Canada, Mexico, chronically invading us. We haven't been afraid of constant fury from mother nature. And so, as a result, we have a harder time tightening up than other countries under these conditions because it's hard for people to sacrifice the kind of liberty and freedom that we've had for constraints and rules.” - Michele GelfandIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder and former co-host Ron Klain interview two experts, Michele Gelfand and Howard Lavine, about why Republicans and Democrats are so deeply divided over almost everything to do with COVID. They discuss the shift towards identity politics and why people tend to vote along the lines of their chosen political party instead of in their best personal interests, and how this complicates different states’ responses to COVID. They also examine how a community’s history of threats in the past shapes their response to crises today.Michele Gelfand is a professor of psychology at the University of Maryland, and is the author of "Rule Makers, Rule Breakers: How Tight and Loose Cultures Wire Our World." Howard Lavine is the Associate Dean of Social Sciences and a professor of political science and psychology at the University of Minnesota. He's the co-author of the book "Open Versus Closed: Personality, Identity, and the Politics of Redistribution,” and the editor of the journal Advances in Political Psychology.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“With penicillin, for example, you needed a few days to begin to get better. With antibodies, these people got better within hours, almost as if the antibody was mediating an antitoxin effect.” - Arturo CasadevallIn today’s episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks with Arturo Casadevall, Chair of the Department of Molecular Microbiology and Immunology at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, about convalescent plasma, the transfer of antibodies from a disease survivor to a disease patient. They discuss the history of convalescent plasma transfer, how it has been used in the past during other infectious disease outbreaks, such as diphtheria and measles, and how the invention of antibiotics led to the decline of this treatment method in the United States. They also talk about the current research studies being done to test the effectiveness of this treatment method on COVID-19 patients. Our host also speaks with Michael Busch,  the Director of the Vitalant Research Institute, about how convalescent plasma transfer is currently being used as a treatment for COVID-19 patients at different stages of infection. They also discuss the process of convalescent plasma donation, something that anyone who has recovered from COVID-19 and now has antibodies can do.Listener Q&A: Should I go on an out-of-state trip with my husband’s family? I am antibody negative, how can I minimize the risk of becoming exposed to COVID-19 on the trip?This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“I think there's always sort of like Indian humor with everything and so there were a lot of people making jokes about Trump putting a travel ban in place to stop the spread of disease from Europe. A lot of native people on Twitter and Facebook were commenting that it was, you know, a few centuries too late." -Rebecca NagleIn this episode, our host Dr. Celine Gounder speaks to Rebecca Nagle, Dr. Melissa Begay, and Jamescita Peshlakai about why the Navajo Nation has been so hard hit by COVID, and what their communities are doing to protect everyone—young and old—during this pandemic. The Navajo Nation is the nation’s largest indigenous tribe and has the highest per capita infection rate of COVID in the United States.Dr. Melissa Begay is a member of the Navajo Nation, and a physician at the University of New Mexico in the Department of Pulmonary, Sleep and Critical Care. Jamescita Peshlakai is an Arizona State Representative and represents eight tribes in her district, including the Navajo. Rebecca Nagle is an Indigenous rights activist, writer and speaker, and a citizen of the Cherokee Nation. She also hosts the Crooked Media podcast, “This Land,” about a Supreme Court case on the land rights of indigenous peoples in Oklahoma.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
Transcript“Terrible diseases like smallpox, polio, yellow fever where, you know, the capital in the United States in those days, Philadelphia, in the 1700s, 10% of the population died. When you vaccinate against them, you prevent them, and they no longer are problems.” - Seth BerkleyIn today’s episode, co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak with Seth Berkley and Dr. Peter Hotez about a topic that has received a lot of attention lately-- vaccines. They discuss the processes involved in developing a vaccine for COVID-19, including when we can realistically expect a vaccine to become available to the public. They talk about the concept of herd immunity and how high vaccination rates are an essential component to this process. They also discuss the anti-vaxxer movement and how mis-messaging may be playing a part in fueling the flames of this movement in regards to a COVID-19 vaccine. Finally, they talk about the need for continued vaccine research in order to be prepared for the next inevitable pandemic.Also, co-host Ron Klain says his farewell to “Epidemic” fans as he announces that this will be his final episode as a co-host of the podcast.Seth Berkley is the CEO of the GAVI Vaccine Alliance. Dr. Peter Hotez is Dean of the National School of Tropical Medicine at Baylor College of Medicine.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
We’re going to hold the release of our next episode until tomorrow.The show must be paused.Consider this a moment of silence... a pause… in honor of George Floyd’s memory.This is a moment in which we should all take a knee… and take a stand against police brutality against the black community. When we should all ask… why have we’ve accepted laws and institutions… that lead people of color to get sick and die… in such higher numbers from the coronavirus… than the rest of us.This is a moment when… all of us… all of us Americans… must honor all the people of color in our nation who’ve died wrongly… needlessly… and senselessly.And so… let us pray for our country… let us contemplate a new way… let us hope… for a better future together.
Transcript"I think there are some people who are afraid that the truth will hurt the economy. That if we let CDC speak the truth, that will hurt stock prices, that will hurt people's jobs and the manufacturing sector. But even when the truth may hurt, even when it's painful, we've got to know the truth. And right now, people are taking steps to keep CDC from speaking the truth.” -Dr. Mark RosenbergIn this episode, our co-hosts Dr. Celine Gounder and Ron Klain speak to former CDC scientists Dr. Mark Rosenberg and Dr. Jim Curran about the CDC’s lack of action during the COVID pandemic, and how CDC guidelines and research have been suppressed and muzzled. They discuss the agency’s complicated history with politicians, parallels with the HIV epidemic, what’s happening to the CDC’s work in the time of COVID, and what’s at stake when politics take precedent over science. Dr. Mark Rosenberg is a retired medical epidemiologist with the CDC and President Emeritus of the Task Force for Global Health. Dr. Jim Curran led the CDC’s HIV/AIDS Division before becoming an Assistant Surgeon General and now Dean of the Rollins School of Public Health at Emory University.This podcast was created by Just Human Productions. We're powered and distributed by Simplecast. We're supported, in part, by listeners like you.#SARSCoV2 #COVID19 #COVID #coronavirus
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Comments (15)

Greg Fishman

This is honestly a very good podcast. Pretty sobering, considering just how ugly the situation has gotten. Obviously the hosts aren't pulling punches, and call out national leadership as necessary, but there are no cheap shots, just knowledgeable people trying to inform others about the state of the country. To the extent it's political, that's only because we need a unified, national response to fight something of this magnitude, as the numbers show that a patchwork response has not and will not work. If you want to hear that Trump did a great job: he didn't. If you want to know why, over the course of the podcast you'll learn.

Jul 18th
Reply

ID17422805

its actually a PANdemic....

May 9th
Reply

Anthony George

Oh....a shit on Trump episode and praise the phony Jesus. I guess I can delete from my list. Thanks for the limited info

Apr 10th
Reply

Shari Lynn

I know that my homemade masks are not as good as n95 masks. I'm making masks for organizations like Meals on Wheels and homeless shelters where they don't have access to masks and PPE like the big hospitals do. Seems to me that is better for these organizations to have masks than none at all. I don't own a restaurant in New York City or elsewhere so I can't provide food to healthcare workers on the front lines. so I'm going to continue sewing for organizations that have no PPE at all. I hope that these masks can prevent the spread of disease among the most vulnerable among us.

Mar 24th
Reply

Johnson Johnson

aimed at a US audience

Mar 11th
Reply

Winston Smith

if you want good information about what is going on check out "cronovirus central". full disclosure the creator is considered to be on the right, he makes a conscious effort in expressing his biased.

Mar 9th
Reply

Tommy Lee

stop trying to make political points. Shame on you. Some things are too important to to insert your politics into. Going elsewhere for unbiased advice.

Mar 4th
Reply (1)

Winston Smith

lol, this is nuts...they speak about how this shouldn't be politicized while they constantly take shots at conservatives and the current administration. horrible podcast if you want to hear about what's going on...its a great podcast if you want an echo chamber about the bad orange man.

Mar 2nd
Reply (5)

Nuage Laboratoire

text

Mar 2nd
Reply
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