Ecosystemic Futures

Ecosystemic Futures engages with the world’s elite thought leaders who are researching and leading meaningful development in areas that could impact society in the next half century. Provided by Shoshin Works in collaboration with NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project - Ecosystemic Futures explores technological advances and structural patterns that will help us better innovate, operate, and navigate in our increasingly connected world. Join the conversation as NASA leaders, and industry and policy luminaries share their perspectives with host Dyan Finkhousen, a leading strategist and global authority on ecosystemic solutions, and brilliant co-hosts.

77. The Health Dividend: How Organization Wellness Pays 3X Returns

What's the measurable return on organizational health? Through rigorous assessment frameworks and 25 years of transformation data, former IBM Change Leader Dr. Donna-Marie Arias quantifies the dividends of workplace wellness. She unpacks a landmark case study: a troubled global financial institution's 3.5-year journey to becoming an industry health leader, demonstrating how organizational wellness compounds into market performance. Beyond McKinsey's research showing 3x performance gains, Dr. Arias reveals the metrics that matter - from diagnostic frameworks to retention patterns tied to manager relationships. Discover the science behind Guatemala's world-leading collaborative culture, how AI adoption impacts organizational vitals, and what drives sustainable returns across finance, technology, and education sectors.HighlightsROI Case Study: Quantified results from a 3.5-year financial organization transformationMeasurement Science: Analysis of 100+ diagnostic indicators across accountability, direction, coordination, control, and motivationPerformance Metrics: How organizational health assessments predict and track market outcomesCross-Industry Data: Comparative analysis across financial, educational, and technological sectorsCultural Intelligence: Measured impact of collaborative versus "I-centric" workplace approachesAssessment Framework: Scientific basis for 12-24 month measurement cycles with pulse monitoringRetention Analytics: Data-driven correlation between manager relationships and employee retentionHealth Indicators: Three measurable relationship factors driving organizational performance

02-19
41:28

104. The New Rules of Power

Traditional geopolitical analysis is dead. A $10,000 drone can now destroy a $100 million military platform—and this "budgetary exhaustion" strategy is already transforming how smart companies compete. We need systems thinking to navigate the four forces reshaping global power:balance of power, technology, climate change, and the nature of warfare. Dr. Nicholas Kenney, founder of Beacon Geopolitical Intelligence, reveals how modern conflict operates through "budgetary exhaustion"—using $10K drones to destroy $100M platforms—and why this asymmetric strategy is already transforming business competition.Paradigm Shifts:→ From Stocks to Flows: Geopolitical power no longer comes from controlling territories but from commanding technological stacks—the entire pipeline from extraction to distribution→ Budgetary Exhaustion Strategy: Ukraine's drone warfare model now applies to business—use low-cost innovation to neutralize competitors' expensive advantages→ Private Geopolitical Actors: Individual entrepreneurs (Musk/Starlink) now make decisions traditionally reserved for governments, creating new power dynamicsEcosystem Impact:→ China's rare earths dominance forced US policy concessions—not through military might but technological stack control→ DeepSeek vs OpenAI: 80% capability at 20% cost demonstrates an asymmetric competitive strategy→ Leadership evolution: from "top-down control" to "center-out influence" in complex systemsThe Innovation: Recognizing that interconnections between system elements matter more than individual components. Success comes from understanding how power flows through networks, not from accumulating static resources.Strategic Application: Any organization can apply "budgetary exhaustion" principles—identify competitors' expensive advantages, then develop low-cost alternatives that force unsustainable resource allocation. The goal isn't superiority but sustainability.Strategic Reframe: In our interconnected world, ask: "What technological stacks do we need to control, and how do we position ourselves at the center of critical flows rather than trying to dominate from the top?"The most resilient ecosystems cultivate influence through connection, not control.Guest: Dr. Nicholas Kenney, Founder, Beacon Geopolitical IntelligenceHost: Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

09-09
52:15

103. Source Code

The universe's most sophisticated R&D lab has been running experiments for 4 billion years—and we're just learning how to read the results. The revelation? Nature's laboratory has field-tested solutions for health and resilience—we need human discernment to look in the right places, ask the right questions, and apply the right tools. Dr. Martin Kussmann, Head of Science at Bavaria's Competence Center for Nutrition and CEO of Kussmann Biotech, reveals: peptides function as "words of biology" that teach the body to heal itself—transforming nutrition from passive gap-filling to active biological programming. Paradigm Shifts:→ Biological Language Discovery: Peptides are the "words of biology" that program biological responses through molecular communication. The parallel: organizational messaging similarly "programs" stakeholder behaviors→ AI as Nature's Librarian: Instead of brute force testing, AI predicts which of nature's millions of bioactive compounds solve specific problems—compressing discovery from years to weeks→ The Implementation Gap Crisis: "We know quite a few things, we just don't do it"—the most significant barrier isn't knowledge but making solutions attractive, affordable, adoptableEcosystem Impact:→ Traditional bioactive discovery: 5-10 years vs. AI-guided platforms: 2-6 weeks→ C. elegans worm testing: shares evolutionary biology with humans while enabling rapid validation→ Mass spectrometry: tracks nutrients through metabolism like "telescopes for the molecular universe"The Innovation: Human-AI collaboration combining strategic biological intuition with computational power. Success comes from knowing where to look in biology's 4-billion-year archive, not just having better search tools.Strategic Application: Any ecosystem can revolutionize its performance by developing discernment to identify which natural solutions apply to its specific context. This pattern recognition—knowing which proven solutions apply rather than reinventing—transforms both biological and business ecosystems.Strategic Reframe: The most adaptive ecosystems cultivate wisdom to ask: "What has nature already solved that applies to our challenge—and how do we recognize those solutions and apply appropriate tools?" Just as nature provides field-tested molecular solutions, successful approaches often exist in other contexts, waiting to be recognized and adapted.Guest: Dr. Martin Kussmann, Head of Science, Competence Center for Nutrition | CEO, Kussmann Biotech GmbHHost: Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

09-02
57:02

102. Orchestrated Autonomy: The Ecosystem Accelerator Government Misses

The Apollo Program achieved humanity's most significant technological leap through "orchestrated autonomy"—a hidden methodology for ecosystem velocity and optimization that modern government partnerships miss. Breakthrough insight? True innovation requires autonomous components working independently first, then strategic orchestration second. Lieutenant Colonel Russ Matijevich reveals why the government seeks integration before independence, thereby stifling the innovation it demands. Ecosystems thrive when stakeholders maintain autonomous excellence, then leaders orchestrate a strategic combination of diverse outputs—not when consensus-seeking destroys individual contribution. Paradigm Shifts:→ The Independence Paradox: Innovation ecosystems thrive when stakeholders are NOT dependent on each other but are rather aligned in mutual interest—Apollo succeeded through autonomous excellence vs consensus→ The Collective Intelligence Inversion: True "wisdom of crowds" is elevated with independent inputs; collaboration before individual contribution can collapse intelligence into groupthink→ The Commercial Viability Paradox: Government seeks technologies that don't depend on government funding—companies with independent commercial success become more attractive procurement targets→ The Efficiency Paradox: More budget creates less innovation—Apollo achieved the impossible on balanced budgets, while today's 6-7% GDP deficits yield diminishing returnsThe Innovation: Innovation ecosystems thrive through structural independence aligned by missions that matter—companies that aren't dependent on government contracts paradoxically become more attractive government buyers.Strategic Reframe: Shift from "How do we align interests?" to: "How do we orchestrate autonomous excellence for breakthrough innovation?"#EcosystemicFutures #InnovationParadox #StrategicTensionGuest: Russ Matijevich, Owner & CEO, Matijevich International Consulting | Retired USAF Lt. Colonel | Former Chief Innovation Officer, Airbus US Space & DefenseHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata + Desai Advisors | Economics PhD | Former Chief Economist, GESeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

08-19
38:57

101. The 1-Ton Shock: Why Single Solutions Fail Complex Systems (Quantum Cities Reveal All)

The revelation that shattered systems thinking: Replacing every combustion car with electric vehicles improves urban efficiency by only 6%—revealing why isolated optimizations fail in complex ecosystems.Dr. Parfait Atchadé from MIT Media Lab discovered this through quantum-enhanced urban modeling in Boston's Kendall Square. His breakthrough: humanized AI agents with emotional architectures that "live" in virtual cities for decades of compressed time, then vote on configurations—exposing the systematic failure of single-variable optimization. Paradigm Shifts:→ The Single-Solution Trap: Complex systems require the vast majority of improvements from interconnected changes—individual optimizations create illusion of progress while missing systemic impact→ Quantum Superposition Planning: Test multiple city configurations simultaneously rather than sequential scenarios—compress 40 years of urban experience into months of simulation→ Agents with Feelings: AI agents embedded with emotional models (joy, fear, anger, sadness) provide qualitative experience data impossible to capture from human stakeholders→ Portfolio Voting Revolution: Beyond binary decisions—split voting percentages across options like investment portfolios, enabling nuanced collective optimization→ Traditional systems modeling: Sequential scenario testing vs. Quantum approach: Parallel reality simulation with dramatic efficiency gainsThe Innovation: Humanized Agent-Based Modeling (h-ABM) creates digital beings with memory, perception, and emotional responses that navigate virtual systems, accumulating experiences and providing stakeholder insights traditional analytics cannot capture.Strategic Application: Any complex ecosystem requiring multi-stakeholder optimization—from organizational transformation to supply chain design—can leverage quantum-enhanced modeling with emotionally-intelligent agents.Strategic Reframe: The most adaptive ecosystems will shift from asking "How do we optimize individual components?" to understanding: "How do we architect systems where quantum-enhanced agents can help us reveal the hidden interdependencies that single-solution approaches systematically miss?"#EcosystemicFutures #QuantumComputing #SystemsThinking #UrbanPlanning #MIT #ComplexSystems #AgentBasedModelingGuest: Dr. Parfait Atchadé, Research Affiliate, MIT Media Lab | Strategic Business Officer, Lighthouse DIGHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-founder, Annunziata & Desai AdvisorsSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research Center Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

08-12
43:00

100. Infrastructure 2.0: Your Next Airport Powers More Than Planes

Transportation infrastructure is about to flip inside-out. The revelation? Advanced Air Mobility isn't just creating flying cars—it's concurrently addressing energy opportunities by transforming airports from power consumers into community power providers.While mobility experts focus on autonomous aircraft, they're missing the bigger disruption: the infrastructure supporting electric aviation will fundamentally rewire how communities access energy. Dan Sloat, Founder of the Advanced Air Mobility Institute and global top 20 AAM leader, reveals a stunning convergence: the same charging infrastructure needed for electric aircraft creates "energy nodes" capable of powering entire neighborhoods during disasters. This revelation builds on the 'Airports as Energy Nodes' innovation led by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project and Langley Research teams.Paradigm Shifts:→ Aviation Accessibility: Only 20% of humanity has ever flown—AAM extends accessibility, scalability→ Infrastructure Inversion: Airports flip from energy consumers to community energy providers—your local vertiport could keep your refrigerator running during the next hurricane→ The 2030 Quantum Collision: Passenger AAM deployment coincides precisely with cryptographically-relevant quantum computers—creating unprecedented cybersecurity vulnerabilities→ Systematic Democratization: Autonomous systems eliminate pilot scarcity bottlenecks, potentially expanding air access from 20% to 80%+ of the global populationEcosystem Impact:→ Current aviation accessibility: 20% of global population vs. AAM potential: 80%+ through autonomous operations→ Infrastructure transformation: Airports becoming community energy resilience hubs with disaster relief capabilities→ Economic democratization: Air mobility transitions from a luxury service to an accessible transportation modeThe Innovation: Advanced Air Mobility's four-element ecosystem—autonomous aviation, uncrewed systems, smart infrastructure, and sustainable propulsion—concurrently creates the world's most distributed energy storage and generation network. The Breakthrough: Transportation nodes that strengthen community resilience rather than just moving people. Building on NASA CAS research showing airports as energy nodes, this represents the infrastructure's most significant paradigm shift since electrification.Strategic Application: Any community planning transportation infrastructure should simultaneously plan for energy independence. The same investment creates both mobility and energy security.Strategic Reframe: The question shifts from "How do we build flying car infrastructure?" to "How do we architect transportation systems that simultaneously solve mobility and energy resilience?"#EcosystemicFutures #AdvancedAirMobility #InfrastructureInversion #EnergyNodes #QuantumSecurityGuest: Dan Sloat, Founder & President, Advanced Air Mobility Institute | Fellow, Royal Aeronautical Society | World Economic Forum AVIATE CommitteeHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-founder, Annunziata Desai AdvisorsSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

08-05
51:39

99. Reality Architects: How Master Deceivers Reveal Fatal Flaws in "Smart" Systems

Harvard scientists fell for table-flipping séances while 8-year-olds saw through million-dollar magic tricks. The revelation? Your organization's most intelligent people systematically miss the most obvious solutions and risks —and this expertise blind spot is limiting every "intelligent" system we build.Stacy Alan, licensed therapist turned mentalist, and Jason Alan, master magician, reveal a counterintuitive truth: highly educated professionals consistently overlook simple explanations that children spot immediately. Their unique lens—combining clinical psychology with perception science—exposes how expertise creates predictable blind spots that limit innovation and increase risk in interconnected systems.Paradigm Shifts:→ The Expertise Paradox: Smart professionals focus on complex explanations while missing obvious solutions—the same bias that blocks breakthrough innovation in "intelligent" systems→ Instant Reality Revision: False perceptions can be implanted in minutes through repetitive messaging—revealing how quickly teams can lock onto wrong assumptions in collaborative environments. Complex market environments carry the same risk.→ The Back Row Principle: If your least technical stakeholder can't navigate your system, you've lost everyone—a design law from magic that could revolutionize innovation adoption→ Group Think Acceleration: Individuals abandon correct perceptions to align with group consensus in seconds, preventing teams from recognizing simple risks and solutions hiding in plain sightEcosystem Impact:→ Traditional innovation focuses on technical complexity vs. elegant solutions that educated professionals systematically overlook→ Magic's core principle: audiences accept complex premises while missing obvious methods—identical to how expert teams can miss breakthrough opportunities→ The "smarty pants syndrome": engineers, doctors, executives overlook simple solutions that 8-year-olds spot immediately because expertise creates predictable blind spotsThe Innovation: Two-decade field testing of human perception vulnerabilities combined with clinical psychology expertise reveals how collective reality can be architected—or weaponized. Their framework distinguishes beneficial wonder (theater magic) from harmful manipulation (false psychics), providing ethical guardrails for reality-shaping technologies.Strategic Application: Any ecosystem involving expert stakeholders—from aerospace missions to financial systems to AI governance—can dramatically improve innovation outcomes by incorporating fresh perspective principles from performance psychology.Strategic Reframe: The most adaptive ecosystems will shift from asking "How do we leverage our experts' knowledge?" to understanding: "How do we architect systems that capture breakthrough insights and address hidden risks that our smartest stakeholders systematically miss?"#NASA #ShoshinWorks #EcosystemicFutures #InnovationBlindSpots #ExpertiseBias #BreakthroughThinking #SystemsInnovationGuests: The Alans - Stacy Alan and Jason Alan | www.TheAlansLive.comEpisode and Series Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

07-29
01:37:08

98. Mind the Gap: Where Ecosystems Miss 50% of Human Behavior

Many ecosystems fail because they're designed for rational actors. The revelation? Humans are systematically irrational—and the ecosystems that embrace this reality dramatically outperform those that don't.While ecosystem architects optimize for logical decision-making, they overlook the implicit forces that drive actual stakeholder behavior. Dr. Aaron Reid, founder of Sentient Decision Science, reveals a mathematical breakthrough: systems that incorporate both conscious reasoning and unconscious emotional drivers achieve 94% behavioral prediction accuracy, compared to 50-60% for traditional rational-actor models.Paradigm Shifts:→ The AI Evolution Imperative: AI models regress toward sameness without fresh human behavioral data—ecosystems that inject implicit intelligence maintain competitive advantage→ Emotion as Universal Currency: All stakeholder decisions follow mathematical formulas where emotion and reason combine in predictable ratios—the first quantifiable model of how humans choose→ The Systematic Irrationality Advantage: Humans are "systematically irrational." Ecosystems that design for this reality dramatically outperform rational-actor models→ The Professional Blind Spot: Even analytical professionals carry measurable unconscious associations—revealing hidden stakeholder coordination challenges in complex systemsEcosystem Impact:→ Traditional stakeholder analysis: 50-60% behavior prediction vs. implicit + explicit methods: 90-96%→ Nissan electric vehicle soundscape: implicit testing identified sounds with intuitive pedestrian safety meaning while maintaining brand fit—solving multi-stakeholder ecosystem challenge→ Meta study: Emotion AI outperformed traditional methods 3X in predicting salesThe Innovation: Patented response-time measurement down to milliseconds, combined with emotional swipe velocity detection and a global database of 1.5B+ subconscious associations. The Breakthrough: The world's first mathematical algorithm integrating System 1 (emotional) and System 2 (rational) processing—enabling ecosystem architects to design for how humans actually behave rather than how they say they behave.Strategic Application: Any multi-stakeholder ecosystem, such as innovation networks, organizational transformation, policy adoption, or aerospace missions, can revolutionize effectiveness by measuring both implicit drivers and explicit feedback in system design.Strategic Reframe: The most adaptive ecosystems will shift from asking "What do stakeholders say they want?" to understanding: "What unconscious forces drive stakeholder behavior—and how do we architect systems that work with human nature rather than against it?"Guest: Dr. Aaron Reid, Founder & CEO, Sentient Decision Science | Ph.D. Experimental PsychologyHost: Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

07-22
59:53

97. Ecosystemic Design: How Nature Redirects 1,200 G-Forces

Engineering often builds systems to withstand extreme forces. Nature's ecosystems build interconnected systems that never experience them through geometric redirection.Woodpeckers don't have super-strong skulls that absorb 1,200 G-forces—they instead have interconnected geometric features that fragment and redirect energy, so the brain never experiences the full impact. Alain Bujold, a visionary R&D expert with 27 years of experience leading over 140 projects and holding 18 patents, reveals how ecosystemic thinking transforms protection. Unexpected Paradigm Shifts:→ Ecosystemic Energy Management: Nature doesn't isolate protection—bone, geometry, and material work as an interconnected ecosystem to redirect forces→ Energy Redirection Over Absorption: Natural ecosystems fragment and redirect kinetic energy through surface geometry—never experience the full force→ Systems Within Systems: Alain's "local and global" R&D methodology mirrors nature's approach—component details + ecosystem-wide performance→ Shape + Resonance = Protection: Surface geometry controls wave behavior across protective ecosystemsEconomic Reality: 2 million TBI cases annually in the US, 400,000 children hospitalized. Military load-carriage injuries cost billions.The Innovation: Woodpecker-inspired helmet geometry that fragments and redirects impact energy through controlled surface patterns—moving beyond material strength to force redirection through shape alone.Opportunity: Ecosystemic energy redirection could revolutionize aerospace (spacecraft hulls that redirect debris impacts), architecture (buildings that redirect earthquake forces), and automotive (crumple zones across vehicle ecosystems).Getting There: Stop asking "How do we build stronger materials?" Start by asking: "How can we design ecosystemic geometry where interconnected elements ensure our system never experiences the full destructive force?"Guest: Alain Bujold, R&D Innovation Strategist | 27 Years, 140+ Projects, 18 PatentsHost: Dyan Finkhousen, CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research Center Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works

07-16
48:43

96. Unraveling Linear Thinking: Unlocking $500B in Hidden Economic Value Through Ecosystemic Transformation

Linear thinking squanders $500 billion annually. The revelation? Ecosystemic collaboration across value chains unlocks it.Textile innovators shatter assumptions—strategic design choices create immediate circular economics. Dr. Rawaa Ammar, Chief Sustainability & Impact Officer at Resortecs, reveals a counterintuitive reality: While companies optimize in isolation, the industry collectively discards $500 billion in materials (equivalent to one garbage truck of textiles every second). Ecosystemic design captures 85-90% through active disassembly—but only when entire value chains collaborate.Unexpected Paradigm Shifts:→ Value Chain Orchestration: Success requires collaboration across entire ecosystems (brands, collectors, recyclers)—silos prevent circular economics → Scale Inversion: Siloed, manual processes hit scaling walls—you can't "hire more workers" for circular economics → Critical Materials Redefinition: Cotton becomes strategically critical when supply chains break (Suez Canal delays cost billions) → Policy Innovation Engine: EU's 16 textile regulations generate ecosystemic collaboration and profit centersEconomic Reality: → 100 billion garments produced annually, <1% recovery vs 75% for paper → Active disassembly: 15x faster processing, 3.3x yield optimization → UN study: 110 billion euros at risk, 54 trillion savings potentialThe Innovation:Smart stitching threads dissolve with targeted heat, enabling automated disassembly at scale. Design-for-circularity transforms costs into revenue streams.Opportunity for Other Sectors:Considering the space economy as an example - where resupply is constrained and every gram costs thousands to transport - could the incorporation of design for disassembly enable a greater economic impact through in-space repair and material recovery?Getting There: Stop asking "How do we dispose efficiently?" Start by asking: "What if 90% of our material value was designed for profitable recovery across our entire value chain?"Guest: Dr. Rawaa Ammar, Chief Sustainability & Impact Officer, Resortecs | PhD Earth & Environmental SciencesHost: Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

07-08
44:08

95. High-Velocity Market Ecosystems: ASEAN's Integrated Industrial Exchanges

Global consensus is the enemy of market efficiency. The solution lies in interconnected market ecosystems that work, while others debate.Many business leaders assume that global alignment is necessary first, followed by implementation. But ASEAN is proving the opposite—regional market ecosystems can out-innovate global bureaucracy. Dr. Renard Siew, President of the Malaysia Carbon Market Association, breaks down the economics: Compliance-integrated exchange markets trade $200-300 billion annually, while voluntary efficiency trading platforms remain at $2 billion. The disparity reveals massive market inefficiencies—pure economic opportunity.Economic Reality (from ASEAN's emerging integrated industrial exchange ecosystem): → 70% of verification methodologies use VERRA standards, but a lack of mutual recognition fragments liquidity → Malaysian industrial efficiency projects can't access Indonesian buyers due to fragmented exchange systems → ASEAN's energy-intensive industries face international trade barriers without integrated industrial exchange mechanismsThe Innovation: Regional frameworks with mutual recognition create integrated exchange ecosystems while maintaining the integrity of verification. The ASEAN Common Framework demonstrates how interconnected market building drives economic efficiency.The Paradigm Shift: → Old thinking: Global standards → Implementation → Scale → New thinking: Regional cooperation → Market liquidity → Velocity → Scale → Global relevanceTrade Implications: As international trade barriers increasingly target industrial efficiency standards, regions with integrated industrial exchange ecosystems gain a competitive advantage. Connected market building beats regulatory isolation.Strategic Question: Ask yourself... "Which 3-5 key partners can we build mutual recognition with to create a liquid market for our efficiency improvements?"Most efficiency improvements aren't pursued because companies can't find verified buyers for the results. However, the right regional partners could help you resolve that issue overnight.Getting There: In your industry, where can regional cooperation create working markets while global standards remain stuck in committee? #EcosystemicFutures #IntegratedExchanges #MarketEcosystems #MarketEfficiency #RegionalOrchestration #TradeCompetitiveness #PerformanceMarketsGuest: Dr. Renard Siew, President, Malaysia Carbon Market Association | PhD Civil & Environmental EngineeringHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-founder, Annunziata Desai AdvisorsSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works. 

07-01
51:15

94. Connected Care Networks: How Strategic Technology Adoption Reshapes Healthcare Ecosystems

🔗 How do you scale from a startup to $2 billion in revenue while transforming healthcare delivery models?Denise Hatzidakis cracked this code at WellBe Senior Medical, directing 8,000 developers at Deutsche Bank (achieving 40% faster delivery), and enabling $50+ million in hospital savings at Premier Healthcare Alliance. Her strategic approach reveals why disconnected systems limit healthcare #ROI despite record spending:The Data Reality: → 70% of health outcomes stem from social determinants—yet most systems ignore this data→ Frail seniors average 10-12 chronic conditions but use 911 as primary care → US healthcare spending leads globally, but delivers suboptimal longevity outcomes → Fragmented EHRs, labs, and pharmacy data prevent holistic careThe Network Solution:Strategic #healthcareAI adoption that connects—not just digitizes—creates measurable ecosystem transformation. When payment models align with health outcomes rather than treatment volume, connected networks turn prevention into profit centers.💡 Denise's Strategic Framework:Align technology with ecosystem-wide outcomes (not isolated metrics)Build iterative pilots that test network effects with clear ROIRedesign processes for connection, not the automation of old workflowsFoster collaborative cultures across network participants🔬 Market Implications:As AI evolves from isolated tools to network-connected intelligence and value-based care becomes more prevalent, connected care networks will render traditional fee-for-service models obsolete. The organizations building these connected ecosystems today will capture tomorrow's healthcare market.What disconnected system in your portfolio needs strategic network transformation?#EcosystemicFutures #ConnectedCare #ValueBasedCare #HealthTech #AIImplementation #DigitalTransformation #HealthcareInnovationGuest: Denise Hatzidakis, Chief Technology, Product, Security Officer, Vori HealthHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-founder, Annunziata Desai AdvisorsSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works. 

06-25
45:36

93. Cultivating Tomorrow: The Ag-Powered Future

Cultivating Tomorrow: The Ag-Powered Future🌱 How do you ensure humanity thrives when traditional agriculture faces supply chain disruptions and geographic constraints?Most food security solutions focus on single variables, such as increasing yield, improving efficiency, or reducing costs. But as global populations urbanize and supply chains become more complex, we need ecosystemic solutions that work both on Earth and beyond.Celina Rocquet is pioneering this integrated approach.From her work with French startup Towerfarm, she's demonstrating how vertical farming isn't just about growing plants in cities—it's about creating controlled ecosystems that can adapt to any environment. By manipulating over 60 growth parameters, including light spectra, nutrient cycles, and atmospheric conditions, these systems achieve water autonomy through closed-loop transpiration and produce pharmaceutical-grade compounds year-round.→ Eliminating seasonal and geographic constraints on medicinal plant production → Creating hyper-local food systems that reduce supply chain vulnerabilities→ Developing plant cultivation protocols for Mars colonization → Advancing from simple leafy greens to complete nutritional ecosystemsTraditional agriculture takes what nature provides. Controlled environment agriculture engineers what life requires. The implications extend far beyond food security. When pharmaceutical companies can't source active ingredients due to geopolitical disruptions or climate events, indoor cultivation of medicinal plants becomes critical infrastructure. When space missions require self-sustaining life support systems, plants provide oxygen, food, medicine, and psychological well-being.📌 The broader insight: This isn't just about farming efficiency.This represents a fundamental shift toward engineered ecosystems that can thrive in any environment, from urban rooftops to lunar colonies. The same principles that enable plant growth in Martian conditions are also solving food security issues in desert cities today. The key lesson from Celina Roquet, biotechnology expert and sci-fi author: "Be curious, explore and test and learn," because the future of human survival—whether on Earth or Mars—depends on our ability to take plants with us and adapt them to any environment.📢 Constraint-driven innovation creates survival solutions. Ecosystemic thinking creates infinite adaptability.What extreme environment in your industry is waiting for this kind of integrated biological approach?#CultivatingTomorrow #VerticalFarming #SpaceAgriculture #FoodSecurity #Biotechnology #Innovation #Sustainability #EcosystemicFutures #PlantScienceGuest: Celina Rocquet, Biotechnology Expert, Plant Institute of Biotechnology Graduate, Sci-Fi AuthorHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-founder, Annunziata and Desai AdvisorsSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

06-18
42:29

92. Vertical Integration: NEOM's Ground-Up Approach to eVTOL Ecosystems

Vertical Integration: NEOM's Ground-Up Approach to eVTOL Ecosystems🚁 How do you build the future when no blueprint exists?Most breakthrough technologies fail not because of technical limitations, but because we try to solve them sequentially: we develop the technology first, then figure out the regulation, then build the infrastructure, and then train the people.NEOM is rewriting this playbook entirely.In 2023, they conducted Saudi Arabia's first eVTOL flight in conditions no aviation authority has ever certified for—50°C+ desert heat, dust storms, and coastal corrosion that would ground conventional aircraft. But the real innovation wasn't the flight itself. It was flying while simultaneously co-developing regulatory frameworks with GACA and designing air corridors integrated with urban planning. → Building energy grid infrastructure for vertiports → Training pilots for software-defined aircraft → Modeling economicsacross 32 million future residents.Traditional aerospace development typically creates delays of 5-7 years between technology readiness and market deployment. NEOM's cross-functional working groups, which bring together OEMs, regulators, urban planners, and energy providers, are eliminating those delays by building the entire ecosystem in parallel. The broader insight: This isn't just about flying cars. This integrated development model applies to any breakthrough technology that requires multi-stakeholder coordination, such as space commercialization, quantum computing infrastructure, autonomous systems, and biotechnology deployment. The key lesson from Borja Blond, CEO of AAM Operator at NEOM: "The only way to predict your future is to create it," and creating it means building supporting ecosystems alongside the technology, not after it.* Sequential thinking creates innovation bottlenecks. Ecosystemic thinking creates innovation acceleration. *What breakthrough technology in your industry is waiting for this kind of integrated approach?#EcosystemicFutures #TechnologyDeployment #eVTOL #SystemsThinking #Innovation #NEOM #AerospaceEngineering #RegulatoryInnovationGuest:  Borja Blond Fdez de Arroyabe, CEO of NEOM Vertical Mobility Operating CoHost: Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

06-12
51:58

91. Navigating the Cognitive Revolution: What Makes Us Human in an AI World

As AI systems approach and potentially surpass human cognitive benchmarks, how do we design hybrid intelligence frameworks that preserve human agency while leveraging artificial cognitive enhancements?In this exploration of human-AI convergence, anthropologist and organizational learning expert Dr. Lollie Mancey presents a framework for the "cognitive revolution,” the fourth transformational shift in human civilization following agricultural, industrial, and digital eras. Drawing from Berkeley's research on the science of awe, Vatican AI policy frameworks, and indigenous knowledge systems, Mancey analyzes how current AI capabilities (GPT-4 operating at Einstein-level IQ) are fundamentally reshaping cognitive labor and social structures. She examines the EU AI Act's predictive policing clauses, the implications of quantum computing, and the emerging grief tech sector as indicators of broader systemic transformation. Mancey identifies three meta-cognitive capabilities essential for human-AI collaboration: Critical information interrogation, Systematic curiosity protocols, and Epistemic skepticism frameworksHer research on AI companion platforms reveals neurological patterns like addiction pathways. At the same time, her fieldwork with Balinese communities demonstrates alternative models of technological integration based on reciprocal participation rather than extractiveoptimization. This conversation provides actionable intelligence for organizations navigating the transition from human-centric to hybrid cognitive systems.Key Research Insights•        Cognitive Revolution Metrics: Compound technological acceleration outpaces regulatory adaptation, with education systems lagging significantly, requiring new frameworks for cognitive load management and decision architecture in research environments •        Einstein IQ Parity Achieved: GPT-4 operates at Einstein-level intelligence yet lacks breakthrough innovation capabilities, highlighting critical distinctions between pattern recognition and creative synthesis for R&D resource allocation •        Neurological Dependency Patterns: AI companion platforms demonstrate "catnip-like" effects with users exhibiting hyper-fixation behaviors and difficulty with "digital divorce"—profound implications for workforce cognitive resilience •        Epistemic Security Crisis: Deep fakes eliminated content authentication while AI hallucinations embed systemic biases from internet-scale training data, requiring new verification protocols and decision-making frameworks •        Alternative Integration Architecture: Balinese reciprocal participation models versus Western extractive paradigms offer scalable approaches for sustainable innovation ecosystems and human-technology collaboration#EcosystemicFutures #CognitiveRevolution #HybridIntelligence #NeuroCognition #QuantumComputing #SociotechnicalSystems #HumanAugmentation #SystemsThinking #FutureOfScience Guest:  Lorraine Mancey, Programme Director at UCD Innovation Academy Host: Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata Desai PartnersSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

06-03
49:22

90. From Silos to Ecosystems: Rebuilding Construction Futures with Advanced Technologies

The $13 trillion construction industry is experiencing its first systemic transformation in decades.In this groundbreaking episode, we examine how advanced technologies are dismantling the silos that have trapped the $13 trillion construction industry in decades of declining productivity. Francesco "Frio" Iorio, CEO of Augmenta and pioneer of generative design, reveals how construction is transforming from a fragmented collection of isolated specialists into an integrated ecosystem of collaborative intelligence.From creating the world's first AI-designed public school in rural Michigan to developing "surrogate master builder" systems that seamlessly coordinate complex building trades, Iorio demonstrates how ecosystemic thinking is finally breaking through the barriers that prevented construction from achieving the efficiency gains seen in manufacturing. This conversation illuminates how AI serves as the connective tissue, transforming siloed expertise into a unified system intelligence that can adapt to supply chain disruptions while enabling both rapid response and long-term strategic planning. HighlightsThe Productivity Paradox Solved: Construction is the only primary industry with declining productivity over the past 50 years; however, AI systems now achieve twice the speed of human designers while reducing waste and improving precision, finally breaking through the efficiency barrier that has challenged the $13 trillion industry.From Fragmented Silos to Integrated Intelligence: Modern construction has fragmented the holistic knowledge of medieval master builders, who were once united across isolated specialists, creating coordination nightmares. AI now serves as a "surrogate master builder companion," reuniting written codes, unwritten tribal knowledge, and real-time constraints into unified ecosystem intelligence that guides seamless collaboration.Beyond the Snowflake Problem: Unlike manufacturing's repeatable processes, every building is unique—the fundamental challenge preventing construction optimization. AI embraces this complexity head-on, enabling mass customization while maintaining the efficiency benefits of systematic design approaches.Global-Scale Impact Through Democratization: The first AI-designed building was a public school in rural Michigan, not a luxury project, signaling how these tools can democratize advanced sustainable design for the 4+ billion people entering urban areas globally, potentially preventing catastrophic "rush urbanization" scenarios.Supply Chain Resilience Revolution: AI-compressed design timelines enable early strategic planning and last-minute adaptation to economic shocks, transforming construction from a rigid sequence into a responsive ecosystem capable of thriving amid uncertainty and tariff-driven supply disruptions.#EcosystemicFutures #ConstructionAI #GenerativeDesign #SustainableBuilding #UrbanFutures #AITransformation #SupplyChainResilience #ProductivityRevolution #SystemicInnovationGuest:  Francesco "Frio" Iorio, Co-Founder and CEO of AugmentaHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata Desai PartnersSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

05-28
46:31

89. The Renaissance Graduate: Education for Complex System Challenges

How can higher education cultivate versatile, adaptable graduates prepared to navigate the increasingly complex systems of our technological world?In this episode of Ecosystemic Futures, we engage with Dr. Lisa Kahle-Piasecki, whose expertise spans business education, workforce development, and technological innovation. The conversation explores how Heidelberg University, a 175-year-old institution with just over 1,000 students, creates Renaissance-style graduates with resilient competency portfolios through international collaboration, community problem-solving, and ethical technology integration. Dr. Kahle-Piasecki shares insights about developing students who can thrive acrossdisciplines, cultures, and career transitions while addressing complex systemic challenges.HighlightsCross-Cultural Competence: The innovative "Amigo Project" connected American and Mexican students, and quantitative research showed positive increases across all 38 measured items on the cultural self-efficacy scale. This demonstrates how structured international collaboration builds crucial business skills while enhancing students' ability to work across borders.Systems Thinking in Practice: Students applying design thinking methodologies (certified through IBM's SkillBuild platform) developed community-based solutions, including a mental health stigma reduction program for student athletes and a Lake Erie plastic reduction campaign—translating theoretical frameworks into practical interventions with measurable local impact.Technological Adaptability: Implementing the AI-powered Pitch Vantage platform provided students with instantaneous feedback on presentation elements like tone, content, and facial expressions, objectively measuring delivery effectiveness while helping them overcome social anxiety. Versatile Career Preparation: Heidelberg's approach combines professional skills with interdisciplinary exposure across its 30 majors and 32 minors, fostering the critical thinking, adaptability, and creativity necessary for graduates to navigate multiple career transitions in an increasingly complex and rapidly changing world.The discussion reveals how effective education today must cultivate Renaissance-style graduates with versatile competencies spanning technical knowledge, ethical reasoning, cultural intelligence, and systems thinking. Dr. Kahle-Piasecki demonstrates how educational institutions can serve as transformative hubs where students develop depth in their disciplines and the breadth of perspective necessary to connect diverse systems, preparing them to address the complex, interconnected challenges that define our future. #SystemsThinking #CrossDisciplinaryEducation #ComplexSystemNavigation #AdaptiveLearning #TechnologyEthics Guest: Dr.Lisa Kahle-Piasecki, Associate Professor of Management, Phyllis M. Chelovitz Endowed Chair in Business Administration, Heidelberg UniversityHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata Desai PartnersSeries Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

05-20
47:41

88. Orchestrating Urban Mobility Ecosystems: The Convergence of Technology, Infrastructure, and Human Experience

How can we transform fragmented urban transportation networks into resilient, adaptive ecosystems that drive economic value while addressing complex societal challenges? In this episode of Ecosystemic Futures, host Marco Annunziata engages with Robin Hutcheson, whose multifaceted expertise spans the complex urban transportation ecosystem. The conversation explores how cities generate more than 80% of global GDP despite occupying limited physical space, and function as dynamic testbeds for next-generation mobility systems. Drawing from her leadership roles at USDOT, FMCSA, and city transportation departments, Robin shares data-driven insights about the 43,000 annual highway fatalities in America and the disproportionate impact on pedestrians. HighlightsMarket Transformation: Cities generate 80% of global GDP while housing 56% of the world's population, creating an unprecedented market opportunity for integrated mobility solutions as urbanization accelerates to 70% by 2050.System Failure Metrics: The 43,000 annual American highway fatalities represent a systemic market inefficiency with disproportionate impacts on vulnerable populations, signaling urgent demand for transformative intervention and cross-sector collaboration.Funding Catalysts: The $5 billion Safe Streets for All program demonstrates how policy innovations can create new market structures connecting federal capital, local implementation, and private sector solutions—a replicable framework for other ecosystem transformations.Digital Twin Integration: Curb space digitization represents a breakthrough application of digital twin technology, creating a networked intelligence layer that optimizes multi-modal system performance across freight logistics, emissions reduction, and public space allocation.Strategic Intervention Points: Urban arterials function as critical nodes where targeted technological and infrastructure interventions can simultaneously cascade improvements across safety, climate, and equity metrics, offering maximum return on transformation investment. The discussion reveals how orchestrating urban mobility requires coordinated physical and digital interventions that break traditional sector boundaries. Robin demonstrates how systems-based orchestration can transform our fragmented approach to urban mobility into adaptive, resilient networks that simultaneously unlock economic value, reduce negative externalities, and create more equitable outcomes—a model applicable to multiple complex system transformations beyond transportation. #EcosystemOrchestration #DigitalTwinInfrastructure #SystemsTransformation #TransportationFinance #ComplexAdaptiveNetworks #UrbanMobilityValue #CrossSectorCollaboration #NextGenCityDesign #DataDrivenUrbanization #ConvexInnovationGuest: Robin Hutcheson, Hutcheson Advisory, LLCHost: Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata Desai Partners Series Hosts:Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin Works Ecosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.

05-13
49:07

87. Edge Systems Thinking: Navigating Innovation Paradoxes

How do boundary zones fuel innovation breakthroughs in complex organizations?Join host Marco Annunziata as he welcomes Jaspar Roos, a member of the European Commission's OISP innovation group and founding partner of the Human and Tech Institute. With MIT credentials in AI Strategy and implementation experience with ISO56001 innovation frameworks, Jaspar examines how ecosystemic models are reshaping societal governance and network orchestration systems.This conversation examines why 80% of employees, typically located outside headquarters, remain disconnected from innovation initiatives, despite organizations investing heavily in AI and digital transformation. Jaspar presents neuroscientific evidence on how the "water cooler effect" creates cognitive transformation: when employees step away from structured work environments, dopamine release facilitates relaxation, leading to the serendipitous interactions that drive breakthrough thinking.Innovation Paradox: 95% of non-tech companies investing in AI will generate no meaningful ROI despite significant expenditure Neuroscience Insight: Water cooler interactions trigger dopamine releases that neurologically prime employees for breakthrough thinking Organizational Blindspot: Top-down innovation efforts fail because 80% of frontline employees lack access to digital transformation tools Edge Systems Theory: Most disruptive innovations emerge at ecosystem boundaries where traditional operating norms converge Metrics Gap: Traditional innovation KPIs measure activity rather than impact, creating "innovation theater" without economic transformationAnalyzing case studies from his portfolio of digital innovation projects, Jaspar reveals the dialectical tension between conformity and transformation. He examines how successful organizations, such as Amazon, implement synchronous communication protocols to overcome innovation paradoxes, while drawing parallels to the transformation of the Swift financial network.  This episode presents a systems-thinking approach to understanding how innovation emerges at ecosystem boundaries, where traditional operating norms are being replaced by new economic engines for the digital era.Guest: Jaspar Roos, Founder and CEO of Limpid & CoHost:  Marco Annunziata, Co-Founder, Annunziata Desai PartnersSeries Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.#EcosystemicFutures #SystemsThinking #InnovationScience #Futures #NeuroscienceOfCreativity 

05-07
55:53

86. Quantum Resonance: The Hidden Patterns Connecting All Systems

How might understanding the interconnected nature of quantum physics, consciousness, and anomalous phenomena transform our approach to ecosystemic innovation?This episode of Ecosystemic Futures explores how seemingly disparate knowledge systems form an interconnected knowledge ecosystem. Dr. Hal Puthoff, Dr. Diana Pasulka, and John von Blauch join hosts Dyan Finkhousen and Anna Brady-Estevez to reveal how our compartmentalized approach to knowledge has limited our understanding of complex phenomena that transcend traditional boundaries. The conversation examines how space-time metric engineering and quantum entanglement could provide frameworks for understanding extraordinary historical anomalies and future technological development. By embracing a more holistic, ecosystemic approach to science, consciousness, and innovation, we may unlock transformative capabilities that address humanity's most pressing challenges while fostering greater harmony within our planetary and social ecosystems.Highlights• Quantum Entanglement as Ecosystemic Reality: The universe operates as an interconnected system where consciousness and matter dynamically influence each other through quantum processes• Breaking Knowledge Silos: How artificial boundaries between science, spirituality, and historical wisdom have crippled our understanding of phenomena that defy conventional categorization• Consciousness as Technology: Evidence suggesting certain mental states directly manipulate quantum fields, potentially revolutionizing how we approach propulsion, energy, and communications• Pattern Recognition Across Time: Striking parallels between historical accounts of anomalous phenomena and cutting-edge physics models reveal consistent underlying principles• From Fragmentation to Integration: How merging diverse knowledge ecosystems creates resilient frameworks for technological breakthroughs that harmonize with natural systems Guests:Dr. Diana Pasulka - Professor of Religious Studies at the University of North Carolina; Author of "American Cosmic"John von Blauch - Grand Prior of the United States, Knights Templar Order of the Temple; Scholar of Western esoteric traditionsDr. Hal Puthoff - Physicist and Director of EarthTech International; Former lead of government UAP research programsHosts:  Dyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksAnna Brady-Estevez, Founding Partner of American Deeptech Series Hosts: Vikram Shyam, Lead Futurist, NASA Glenn Research CenterDyan Finkhousen, Founder & CEO, Shoshin WorksEcosystemic Futures is provided by NASA - National Aeronautics and Space Administration Convergent Aeronautics Solutions Project in collaboration with Shoshin Works.#EcosystemicThinking #QuantumEntanglement #SystemsTransformation #IntegratedKnowledge #InterdisciplinaryScience #KnowledgeEcosystems  #EmergentTechnology

04-29
01:42:56

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