Excess Returns

Ben Hunt returns to Excess Returns to break down the hidden risks building inside private credit and the parallels between today’s “alternative asset managers” and the shadow banking system that triggered the 2008 financial crisis. Using the Godfather’s Tessio as a metaphor for betrayal and broken trust, Ben explains how opacity, leverage, and narrative collapse can turn small defaults into systemic crises. He and Matt Zeigler explore what’s really happening beneath the surface of private markets, how common knowledge shifts shape investor behavior, and how Perscient Pro’s “storyboards” and “semantic signatures” help track the narratives driving markets in real time.Main topics coveredWhy Ben believes we’re at a “trust-breaking” moment similar to 2007The Godfather analogy and what frauds reveal about human behaviorHow private credit has evolved into today’s “shadow banking” systemFlow machines, hidden leverage, and why opacity is intentionalThe dangers of informational asymmetry between investors and lendersHow broken trust creates chain reactions in financial systemsThe link between narrative collapse and liquidity crisesCommon knowledge, crowd reactions, and market psychologyDoom loops between Wall Street and the real economyHow Perscient Pro tracks financial narratives using semantic signaturesWhy gold’s current rally is about safety, not debasementWhat investors should monitor next in credit, housing, and macro narrativesTimestamps0:00 Hidden leverage and the trust problem1:04 Introduction to Ben Hunt and Epsilon Theory2:12 The Tessio analogy – betrayal and the structure of fraud6:10 How private credit became today’s shadow banking system10:55 Flow machines and why opacity is intentional14:48 Trust breaks and the “funding stops first” dynamic18:35 The Biden “common knowledge” moment explained21:00 What happens when narratives collapse24:26 Apollo, asymmetric information, and shorting First Brands28:00 Hidden leverage and the domino effects of default33:40 The “doom loop” between Wall Street and the real economy39:10 Why Silicon Valley Bank was different44:18 What a “run on Wall Street” could look like48:00 Perscient Pro and tracking financial storyboards53:32 Semantic signatures and narrative detection57:10 Housing, inflation, and gold storyboards1:00:48 Where to follow Ben Hunt and learn more about Perscient Pro

In this episode of Excess Returns, Gene Munster and Doug Clinton of Deepwater Asset Management join Justin and Jack to explore the technological, economic, and investing implications of AI. They discuss why they believe we’re still in the early stages of a multi-year bull market driven by AI, how the technology is reshaping jobs and productivity, and what it means for investors. The conversation also covers how companies like Nvidia, Apple, Tesla, and Meta fit into this AI cycle, the energy demands of AI, and the future of AI-driven investing through Intelligent Alpha and its GPT ETF.Topics covered:• Why Gene and Doug believe AI represents a once-in-a-generation wealth creation opportunity• How AI may impact corporate profitability and hiring trends• The political and social dynamics slowing AI adoption• Doug’s “detective, people-pleaser, and tastemaker” framework for future human jobs• How Intelligent Alpha uses large language models to manage portfolios• The advantages of AI-driven investment models over humans• Economic and market implications of an AI productivity boom• The hardware-data-application structure of technological cycles• The role of energy, especially nuclear and solar, in supporting AI growth• The competitive race among model providers like OpenAI, Google, and Meta• Apple’s long-term AI positioning and potential comeback• Tesla’s valuation, autonomy vision, and the future of robotics• The inevitability and function of bubbles in breakthrough technologies• The rise of private markets and retail investor access to innovation• Future frontiers in quantum computing and biotechnologyTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and Deepwater’s AI thesis03:00 Why AI marks a multi-year bull market opportunity08:00 Political reality and limits of AI deployment11:00 The future of human work: detectives, people-pleasers, tastemakers16:00 Inside Intelligent Alpha and the GPT ETF19:00 Why AI can outperform human managers25:00 How AI affects productivity, margins, and employment26:00 Hardware, data, and application cycle in AI28:00 The energy constraint: nuclear, gas, and solar29:30 The model race: OpenAI, Google, Meta34:00 Apple’s role and long-term AI potential39:30 Tesla, autonomy, and long-term disruption44:00 Are bubbles necessary for technological revolutions?49:00 Private vs. public investing in innovation51:00 Beyond AI: quantum computing and life extension technologies54:45 Closing thoughts

Buy Toby's Bookhttps://amzn.to/478SMBfIn this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Tobias Carlisle, founder and portfolio manager at the Acquirers Fund, and author of the new book “Soldier of Fortune: Warren Buffett’s Sun Tzu and the Ancient Art of Risk Taking.” Tobias joins Matt Zeigler and Bogumil Baranowski to explore how timeless strategic principles from The Art of War apply to investing and how Warren Buffett embodies many of those ideas—from invincibility and victory without conflict to the disciplined avoidance of ruin. The conversation connects Buffett’s real-world decisions—from Apple to General Re to Japan’s trading houses—to broader lessons on temperament, risk, and wisdom in markets.Main topics covered:• The three key ideas from The Art of War that define Buffett’s approach: invincibility, victory without conflict, and unassailable strength• Why Buffett’s General Re acquisition was a misunderstood masterstroke in defensive investing• How Buffett achieved “victory without conflict” through his massive Apple investment• The principle of via negativa — succeeding by avoiding mistakes and ruin• Temperament vs. intellect and the psychology of avoiding self-defeat• Circle of competence and why simplicity often beats complexity• Sins of omission vs. sins of commission in investing decisions• How Buffett applies wu wei (effortless action) through patience and alignment with natural forces• Lessons from Buffett’s Japanese trading house investments and moral law in business• The role of reputation, intuition (coup d’œil), and character in long-term investing• Charlie Munger’s blueprint and the strategic architecture of Berkshire HathawayTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and overview of Tobias Carlisle’s key ideas02:00 Applying Sun Tzu’s “invincibility, victory without conflict, and unassailable strength” to Buffett06:00 The General Re acquisition as a defensive masterpiece12:00 Victory without conflict — Buffett’s Apple investment19:00 The principle of via negativa and avoiding ruin22:00 Survival, temperament, and controlling emotion in investing25:00 Circle of competence and the power of simplicity28:00 Sins of omission vs. sins of commission32:00 Temperament, intellect, and avoiding self-defeat40:00 Wu wei and investing with effortless alignment49:00 Position sizing, concentration, and the Kelly Criterion50:00 Buffett’s investments in Japan’s trading houses56:00 Reputation, intuition, and the power of pattern recognition61:00 Charlie Munger’s blueprint and Buffett’s strategic genius64:00 Closing thoughts and where to find Tobias online

In this episode of Excess Returns, Jerry Parker joins us for a deep dive into the philosophy and practice of trend following. As one of the original Turtle Traders, Jerry shares lessons from Richard Dennis and Bill Eckhardt, explores how trend following has evolved over the decades, and offers timeless wisdom on markets, psychology, and risk management. From his early days in the Turtle Trading program to running Chesapeake Capital today, Jerry explains what it takes to survive and thrive as a systematic trader in an uncertain world.Topics covered:• The origins of the Turtle Trading program and what Jerry learned from Richard Dennis and Bill Eckhardt• How trend following has evolved from short-term to longer-term systems• Why trading psychology is harder than following the rules• The role of discomfort and doing “hard things” in successful investing• The design and diversification of a robust trading universe• Risk management, drawdowns, and letting profits run• Why trend following belongs alongside a 60/40 portfolio• How ETFs are expanding access to managed futures strategies• Incorporating crypto and new markets into trend following systems• The internal truths of trend following and why smooth returns can be dangerousTimestamps:00:00 Trading should be hard02:00 The origins of the Turtle Trading program08:00 Evolution of trend following systems12:00 The psychology of following rules16:00 The famous Turtle Trader true/false test20:00 Could the Turtle program work today?23:00 Building a diversified trading universe28:00 Risk management and position sizing32:00 How trend following complements 60/40 portfolios38:00 Managed futures, stocks, and diversification41:00 The rise of trend-following ETFs45:00 Incorporating crypto and futures48:00 Where the strongest trends are now52:00 AI and systematic investing53:30 The internal truths of trend following56:00 The belief Jerry holds that most investors would disagree with

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Warren Pies joins Excess Returns to discuss why he believes we’ve entered a “Debasement Regime,” what that means for investors, and how it differs from the post-GFC deflationary era. He explains the psychology behind this shift, how it’s changing market behavior, and what it means for asset allocation, gold, bonds, small caps, and the Federal Reserve. This conversation covers macro strategy, portfolio construction, and how investors can adapt to a world focused on protecting purchasing power rather than principal.Main topics covered• The shift from deflation to debasement and what defines this new regime• Why protecting purchasing power is replacing the fear of losing principal• Fiscal policy, deficits, and how politics drive the debasement dynamic• The cyclical vs. secular forces shaping markets today• Labor market analysis and the idea of “malignant stasis”• How bonds fit in a debasement era and when they hedge equities again• Valuations, bubbles, and why Warren sees room for the S&P 500 to rise further• Gold as the key debasement asset and how to manage the trend• Portfolio construction in a 60/40-is-dead world• AI, productivity, and the longer-term implications for growth and inflation• What could ultimately break the debasement regimeTimestamps00:00 Debasement vs. deflation and the new investor mindset07:40 Fiscal deficits, policy shortcuts, and the debasement channel10:25 Reacceleration or illusion: the cyclical economic outlook16:42 The labor market’s “malignant stasis” and what it signals21:17 How Warren values bonds and equities in this environment29:34 Bond vigilantes and the likelihood of a true bond revolt34:00 Valuations, bubbles, and the path to S&P 7,00038:27 Why small caps remain a short against large caps41:37 Value stocks, energy, and timing hard asset rotations45:08 Gold’s breakout and how to manage the position50:00 Portfolio construction in a debasement era54:32 AI’s potential to reshape productivity and demographics57:13 What could end the debasement regime59:46 Managing risk with technicals and conviction with fundamentals

Andy Constan returns to Excess Returns to break down today’s macro environment using his Four-Pillar Framework — growth, inflation, risk premia, and flows. Drawing on lessons from his time at Bridgewater and Brevan Howard, Andy explains how he blends systematic and discretionary approaches to form a clearer picture of markets. He discusses the AI-driven CapEx boom, the economic effects of tariffs, Fed independence under Trump, and why the current setup could produce extreme outcomes in either direction.Topics covered:Systematic vs. discretionary macro investingAndy’s Four-Pillar Framework: growth, inflation, risk premia, and flowsHow AI CapEx is driving growth — and what happens when it stopsTariffs, policy shifts, and their impact on inflation and growthThe Fed’s independence and what it means for marketsRisk premia, volatility, and asset allocation in uncertain environmentsHow major flows and corporate buybacks shape market directionWhy Andy sees a “digital” macro environment with binary outcomesTimestamps:00:00 Intro and setup02:00 Systematic vs. discretionary macro investing14:00 The Four-Pillar Framework explained22:00 Growth outlook and AI-driven CapEx boom33:00 The real impact of tariffs on the economy39:00 Thinking in probabilities and constructing macro portfolios40:00 Fed independence and policy alignment47:00 Labor market dynamics and AI uncertainty48:30 Risk premia and asset allocation56:00 Flows, buybacks, and corporate debt01:00:00 What Andy’s watching next01:06:00 Why macro outcomes have never been more digital

In this episode of Excess Returns, macro strategist Julian Brigden of MI2 Partners joins the show to break down today’s volatile market landscape. Brigden discusses why he believes we’re in one of the most fertile environments for macro investors in decades, the forces driving dollar weakness, inflation, and capital rotation, and how investors can position amid shifting policies, labor constraints, and AI’s uncertain impact. He also explains the risks of U.S. exceptionalism, the fragility of equity markets, and why he’s long everything not tied to the U.S.Topics covered:The role of macro as a “supporting actor” that becomes essential at tops and bottomsWhy this may be the best macro environment in 40 yearsThe policy and market implications of tariffs, immigration, and a weaker dollarPositioning for U.S. underperformance and the case for international assetsHow Brigden uses price confirmation and technical signals in his processThe dollar’s impact on equity and sector leadershipInflation, labor markets, and the “no firing, no hiring” phenomenonWhy AI’s economic impact will take longer than expectedThe probabilities of recession, inflation, and soft landing scenariosFiscal dominance, debt, and the future of financial repressionWhy bonds are “a crap place to have your cash”The fragile reflexive cycle of passive investing and U.S. equitiesLessons for individual investors about thinking independently and avoiding industry “cheerleaders”Timestamps:00:00 Macro at extremes and U.S. underperformance risk02:00 How Brigden uses macro analysis to time markets06:00 Why this is a generational macro opportunity08:00 Tariffs, growth, and the policy shift under Trump12:00 Price confirmation and process discipline15:00 The case for non-U.S. assets and sector rotation20:00 Inflation waves and the labor market’s fragility26:00 AI, uncertainty, and hiring hesitation36:00 Recession vs. reacceleration probabilities42:00 The debt problem and fiscal dominance47:00 Sector positioning and the weak dollar playbook51:00 Passive flows and market reflexivity56:00 The hyper-financialized U.S. economy01:00:00 AI, equity valuations, and risk of disappointment01:01:00 Lessons for investors and independent thinking

Katie Stockton, founder and managing partner at Fairlead Strategies, joins us for her quarterly technical outlook on markets, sectors, and asset classes. In this episode, Katie breaks down what her indicators are showing for equities, discusses the implications of new DeMark signals on the S&P 500 and Nasdaq, and explores opportunities across sectors like healthcare, utilities, and energy. She also analyzes key macro charts including gold, oil, Treasury yields, and the dollar, and explains how investors can use technical analysis to manage risk and identify trends heading into year-end.Main topics covered:• The current technical setup for the S&P 500 and how Katie reads market momentum• The role of moving averages, MACD, and DeMark indicators in her process• Breadth, sentiment, and seasonal factors influencing market direction• Why the AI and tech rally may be entering a more selective phase• Sector analysis: healthcare, utilities, energy, and consumer staples• Trends in financials and what’s driving sector rotations• Overview of the Fairlead Tactical Sector ETF (TACK) and its positioning• The broadening theme, mega-cap leadership, and market concentration• Technical outlooks for gold, oil, Treasury yields, and the dollar• How correlations between bonds and equities are evolving• Key risk metrics Katie is watching into year-endTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and S&P 500 setup04:15 How Katie uses key technical indicators07:00 Reading trend strength through moving averages10:00 Balancing short- and long-term signals12:00 Seasonality and sentiment in the current market15:00 DeMark sell signals on the S&P and Nasdaq18:30 What a correction could mean for the AI trade20:20 Sector rotation and using technicals for allocation23:30 Opportunities in healthcare and energy25:30 Utilities and countertrend setups27:20 Consumer staples and defensive positioning29:00 Financials and recent weakness31:00 Inside the TACK ETF and its strategy34:10 Market breadth and mega-cap concentration37:00 Gold’s breakout and sell discipline using technicals41:00 Oil’s setup and resistance levels43:15 10-year Treasury yield analysis46:20 The dollar index and its key levels48:15 Relationship between stocks and bonds51:10 Final takeaways and closing

In this episode of Excess Returns, we’re joined by Rob Thummel of Tortoise Capital to discuss the critical intersection of energy and technology. Rob explains why “electricity is the new oil” as AI and data center demand reshape global power needs. We explore the future energy mix, investment opportunities across natural gas, nuclear, and renewables, and how investors can position for decades of transformation in the energy ecosystem.Topics covered:How AI is driving a new era of electricity demandThe evolving U.S. energy mix: oil, gas, nuclear, and renewablesWhy electricity is becoming the new oilThe scale of power needed to support AI and data centersOpportunities and challenges in renewables and battery storageThe resurgence of nuclear and the role of natural gasHow U.S. shale transformed inflation and global energy marketsEnergy infrastructure and why it offers steady returnsHow the TCAI ETF captures the “AI infrastructure” opportunityRisks and resilience of the U.S. power gridLessons from 30 years investing in energyTimestamps:00:00 Electricity is the new oil and the future of AI energy demand02:00 The evolving U.S. energy mix and global demand growth08:00 Why electricity, not oil, will power the next economic era11:00 How much power AI and data centers will need15:00 Can renewables meet rising energy demand?20:00 The comeback of nuclear and its challenges25:00 How U.S. shale changed global energy and inflation32:00 Why energy infrastructure is less volatile than commodities36:00 Inside Tortoise’s new AI infrastructure ETF (TCAI)43:00 The rise of digital and electricity infrastructure plays45:00 How Tortoise evaluates investments and valuations49:00 The resilience and future expansion of the U.S. grid52:00 Closing lessons: contrarian investing and energy’s importance

In this episode of Excess Returns, Matt Zeigler sits down with investor and author Bogumil Baranowski to discuss one of investing’s most important mindset shifts: moving beyond cheap stocks to paying up for quality and exceptional opportunities. Drawing on lessons from Warren Buffett, Ben Graham, and his own journey, Bogumil explains how value investing evolves across three key phases—buying cheap, buying good, and learning to pay up. The conversation explores patience, conviction, dead money periods, family wealth stewardship, and how to think about value versus price in a noisy world.Topics covered:• The “cheapest dentist” analogy and why investors chase bargains• The three phases of investor evolution: cheap, good, and exceptional• Lessons from Buffett, Munger, and Graham on paying up for quality• How to hold through drawdowns and dead money periods• Why patience and conviction are the hardest investing skills• Frugality, compounding, and lessons from his grandmother• How long-term family investors think about wealth and stewardship• The difference between price and value in modern markets• How to know when cheap is too cheap and quality is worth paying for• Why great investments are often simple to explain• The story behind his Wall Street Journal essay “The Expensive Truth About Cheap Investments”Timestamps:00:00 Introduction – The cheapest dentist analogy03:00 Why investors love cheap stocks07:00 The evolution from bargain hunter to quality investor09:00 Examples from Ben Graham, Buffett, and Facebook15:30 Conviction, drawdowns, and dead money19:00 Judging success by business progress, not stock price27:00 Lessons from grandma on value and frugality31:00 How Buffett evolved from cheap to quality45:00 Investing for future generations49:00 Invisible wealth and stewardship52:00 The value investor dilemma58:00 Equal-weight vs market-cap indexes59:00 Lessons for the average investor1:02:00 How much research you really need1:04:30 How his WSJ essay came to life and final takeaways

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Matt Zenz of Longview Research Partners to explore factor investing, evidence-based strategies, and the challenges and opportunities in today’s markets. Matt shares insights from his engineering background, his time at DFA, and his current work running the Longview Advantage ETF (EBI). We cover the nuances of value, momentum, size, implementation, and how investors can think more effectively about long-term returns.Topics covered:Matt’s journey from engineering to investingLessons learned at DFA and the foundation of evidence-based investingDefining factors and what makes them credibleThe role of value, momentum, quality, and size in portfoliosThe challenges of intangibles and redefining valueLarge cap tech dominance, mean reversion, and whether the world has changedFactor timing, valuation spreads, and Cliff Asness’ “sin” frameworkHow momentum can be integrated with value tiltsPortfolio construction: combining factors vs sleeve approachesImplementation challenges for large vs small managersHow Longview manages liquidity, turnover, and trading costsThe potential impact of AI on factor investingFuture opportunities in implementation alpha and ETF designMatt’s biggest investing belief most peers disagree withThe key lesson he would teach the average investorTimestamps:00:00 Value vs returns and factor investing basics03:00 From engineering and Boeing to investing06:15 Time at DFA and lessons in evidence-based investing07:30 What evidence-based investing really means09:25 Defining factors and what makes them valid12:00 Using value, profitability, size, and momentum16:00 Large cap tech dominance and future returns18:00 Mean reversion and whether the world has changed20:00 How long does value need to struggle before it’s “dead”?22:30 Should value be redefined for intangibles?25:30 Intangibles, R&D, and why adjustments add noise27:00 Value’s performance across economic cycles and migration30:00 Interest rates, growth, and value performance32:00 Factor timing and valuation spreads34:15 The role of momentum in timing and implementation35:00 How Longview applies passive-aggressive tilts36:30 Combining factors vs sleeve approaches39:00 How momentum is used in practice41:30 Factor migration and average holding periods43:00 The size premium and whether it still exists44:30 The benefits of being nimble vs large fund families47:30 Liquidity challenges in small cap value52:00 The role of AI in investing54:00 Where implementation adds the most alpha55:30 One belief Matt holds that peers may disagree with57:20 The one lesson for the average investor

In this episode of Excess Returns, we’re joined by Noel Smith, co-founder and CIO of Convex Asset Management. Noel shares his unique journey from biochemistry and the military to market making, high-frequency trading, and running a volatility-focused hedge fund. We dig deep into volatility, regime models, income strategies, dispersion, tail hedging, and more, offering a rare look inside the world of professional options and volatility trading.Topics covered:Noel’s background: biochemistry, military, market making, HFT, hedge fund launchHow markets have evolved since the 1990sWhy volatility is the best source of market informationRegime shift modeling and its role in strategy selectionUsing options for income and the trade-offs investors should understandVolatility harvesting and risk-defined short vol strategiesThe impact of zero DTE options on marketsDispersion trading and correlation dynamicsBond vol arbitrage and volatility surfacesOpportunistic trades like GameStop and meme stocksTail hedging, its costs, and how to monetize hedgesLessons on flexibility, risk, and never being married to positionsTimestamps:00:00 Intro and Noel’s unique background06:00 How markets have changed behind the scenes07:00 Why volatility is the best information source09:00 Regime shift model explained19:00 Using options for income – benefits and risks24:30 Volatility harvesting strategies29:10 What the VIX does (and doesn’t) tell you30:30 Zero DTE options and systemic risk33:20 Dispersion trading explained42:00 Bond vol arbitrage45:00 Opportunistic trades: GameStop and beyond51:30 Tail hedging and rebalancing54:30 Lessons on flexibility and risk management

In this episode, we sit down with Ben Carlson of Ritholtz Wealth Management and A Wealth of Common Sense to talk about market valuations, the rise of AI, investor behavior, and what history can teach us about investing today. Ben shares his perspective on why valuations are harder to use than ever, how market structure has shifted, and the lessons he’s learned as both a writer and an investor navigating major market cycles.Topics covered in this episode:Why market valuations are harder to use today than in the pastThe impact of buybacks, margins, and technology on long-term comparisonsMarket concentration and the dominance of mega-cap tech stocksPassive investing flows, investor behavior, and government backstopsHow AI compares to past technological innovations and its investment implicationsValue versus growth cycles and why U.S. tech has broken historical normsThe lessons of the NASDAQ since 2000 and defining the long term for investorsPersonal experiences from the 2008 financial crisis and the power of compoundingDiversification, gold’s surprising performance, and the case for international investingTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and market valuations06:00 Structural changes and the role of buybacks09:00 Margins, efficiency, and corporate dominance12:00 Market concentration and the rise of mega-cap tech14:00 Passive investing and household stock ownership18:00 Government backstops and market resilience23:00 Valuations as expectations vs. predictions25:00 AI boom and capital allocation29:00 Is this 1996 or 1999? Bubble comparisons32:00 How AI may reshape investing and daily life41:00 Investing in breakthrough technologies43:00 Value versus growth cycles in the U.S. and abroad46:00 Lessons from the NASDAQ and defining long-term investing49:00 Compounding lessons from the 2008 financial crisis53:00 Diversification, gold, and international performance

In this episode, we sit down with Jim Paulsen to analyze the latest economic and market data through his lens of decades of market experience. Jim shares insights from his Paulsen Perspectives research, covering the job market, the Fed, inflation, valuations, investor confidence, and what they all mean for the future of the economy and markets. We explore why confidence is so low despite a bull market, how Fed policy is shaping market dynamics, and where investors might want to focus as the cycle evolves.Topics covered in the episode:The job market’s pivotal role in driving the economy and Fed decisionsWhy recent Fed rate cuts may mark a turning point in market support systemsThe narrowness of the bull market and how innovation-driven firms diverge from traditional cyclesInvestor confidence, the “misery index,” and recession probability modelsHow easing may broaden market participation beyond large-cap growthWhat “animal spirits” mean for small caps, high beta, and IPOsThe disconnect between inflation, bond yields, and growth measuresGold, cash, crypto, and tech as “fear assets” in today’s environmentThe impact of tariffs on profits, wages, and inflation expectationsValuations in context: historical perspective and the upward bias of multiplesTimestamps:00:00 Introduction and market overview02:00 Fed easing, inflation, and recession risks09:00 Bull market without normal supports17:00 Narrow leadership and innovative companies23:55 Confidence and the misery index29:35 Yield curve, recession probabilities, and Fed policy34:00 Broadening of market participation37:00 Animal spirit stocks and small caps38:00 Inflation, bond yields, and resource unemployment43:20 Copper-gold ratio and yields45:10 The role of gold in portfolios50:00 Cash, crypto, and tech as defensive assets54:00 Tariffs, inflation, and profit margins59:00 Inflation persistence vs. wage growth01:01:10 Valuations and the upward bias in multiples01:07:00 Closing thoughts and takeaways

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with John Tinsman, portfolio manager of the AOT Growth and Innovation ETF (AOTG). John shares how his investing journey began, the lessons he learned from both successes and failures, and how those experiences shaped his current investment philosophy. We dive deep into the concepts of low marginal cost, profitable growth, digital toll booths, and the transformative impact of AI. John also discusses his approach to valuation, position sizing, and why he believes large-cap growth and technology will continue to lead in the years ahead.Main topics covered:John’s path from personal investing to launching an ETFLessons learned from early stock picks and market-making experienceThe power of low marginal cost businesses and long-term compoundingHow AI is reshaping software development, innovation, and profitabilityThe importance of revenue and earnings growth in stock selectionDigital toll booths as the future of software business modelsDifferences between profitable vs. unprofitable growth companiesWhy technology leadership today differs from the dot-com eraThe role of sectors, valuation, and position sizing in portfolio constructionJohn’s views on growth vs. value, large-cap vs. small-cap, and future innovation trendsTimestamps:00:00 The riskiest thing in investing02:00 John’s background and early investing journey05:00 Lessons from Apple, Boeing, Visa, and Potash10:00 Insights from agriculture and value investing12:00 AI’s impact on software development and innovation16:00 Sectors, classifications, and thematic approaches18:00 Comparing AI disruption to past bubbles21:00 Profitability in today’s tech companies22:00 Will the top companies stay dominant?26:00 Large-cap vs. small-cap technology investing28:00 Growth vs. value in today’s market30:00 Demographics, Buffett’s lessons, and sector shifts34:00 Value vs. software companies35:00 Digital toll booths explained37:00 Growth sustainability and digital infrastructure40:00 Semiconductor cycles and long-term demand44:00 Screening for growth and low marginal cost47:00 Sell discipline and valuation checks49:00 Position sizing and portfolio management51:00 ETF tax benefits and structure53:00 Where AOTG fits in portfolios54:00 One belief peers disagree with56:00 One lesson for the average investor57:00 Closing thoughts and outro

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Joseph Shaposhnik, founder of Rainwater Equity and former star portfolio manager at TCW. Joseph shares the investment philosophy that drove his track record of outperformance, why he focuses on recurring revenue businesses, and how he evaluates management quality and capital allocation. We also explore lessons from great investors like Warren Buffett, Bill Miller, and Peter Lynch, along with insights on valuation, portfolio concentration, and the role of passive investing in today’s markets.Main topics covered:How Joseph achieved long-term outperformance at TCW and what drove his resultsWhy recurring revenue and predictable cash flows are central to his approachThe importance of management quality and identifying “fanatics” vs. mercenariesLessons investors should and should not take from Warren BuffettBill Miller’s influence and backing of Rainwater EquityCharacteristics Joseph looks for in great businesses and red flags in management teamsPortfolio concentration, position sizing, and risk managementWhy you don’t need to have an opinion on every sectorSelling discipline and knowing when it’s time to move onHow valuation fits into his framework and how he thinks about paying up for qualityThe impact of passive investing and why active managers must take a long-term viewStories and lessons from Peter Lynch, including his enduring influenceTimestamps:0:00 If a stock has doubled, you haven’t missed it1:00 Introduction and Joseph’s track record at TCW2:00 Keys to long-term outperformance8:00 Lessons from Warren Buffett’s wins and mistakes11:30 Bill Miller’s influence and support for Rainwater Equity14:00 What defines a high-quality business20:00 Free cash flow compounding and moats24:00 Red flags in management teams31:00 Why active management is broken and Joseph’s solution35:00 Portfolio concentration and risk management42:00 Sectors to avoid and why47:00 Joseph’s selling discipline53:00 Exceptional leaders and the role of management quality58:00 Valuation, future value, and the changing economy1:04:00 Passive investing and market distortions1:09:00 Lessons and stories from Peter Lynch1:14:00 Closing questions and key investing lessons1:20:00 Where to learn more about Joseph and Rainwater Equity

In this episode of Excess Returns, we sit down with Sam Ro to revisit his widely read post “10 Stock Market Truths” and explore how each principle holds up in today’s market. From the long game of investing to short-term risks, valuations, AI, and earnings, Sam shares a timeless framework for navigating markets and separating noise from signal.Topics covered:• Why the long game is undefeated• Short-term volatility and how to prepare for it• The myth of average returns• Asymmetric upside in markets and stocks• AI as both opportunity and risk• Earnings as the ultimate driver of stock prices• Why valuations don’t predict the next year• The role of uncertainty and hidden risks• Turnover and evolution within the stock market• Why the stock market isn’t the economyTimestamps:00:00 Average returns are misleading02:00 Introducing Sam Ro02:15 Truth #1: The long game is undefeated08:40 Truth #2: You can get smoked in the short term14:20 Do markets have a government backstop?18:00 Truth #3: The myth of average returns23:00 Truth #4: Asymmetric upside28:00 AI as macro and micro driver33:00 Truth #5: Earnings drive stock prices36:30 Truth #6: Valuations won’t tell you much about next year51:40 Truth #7: There will always be something to worry about55:20 Truth #8: The destabilizing risks are the ones people aren’t talking about01:05:00 Truth #9: There’s a lot of turnover in markets01:11:00 Truth #10: The stock market isn’t the economy01:20:00 Closing thoughts

In this episode, William Blair Global Strategist Olga Bitel joins us to unpack her “Perpetual Growth Machine” framework and what it means for investors navigating AI, tariffs, inflation volatility, market concentration, and a shifting global order. We dig into why growth often emerges from solving problems, how monopolies can stunt future innovation, where AI’s productivity dividends could accrue, and why she sees the next decade’s best opportunities outside the United States. Olga also walks through the risks she’s watching, why facts change faster than narratives, and practical ways to connect top-down insights with bottom-up research.Topics coveredThe Perpetual Growth Machine: why needs spark innovation and growth, and how investors can spot it earlyWhy monopolies look great to investors but hurt long-term growth and innovationAI as a general purpose technology and the scale of potential productivity savingsHousing affordability, incomes, and policy bottlenecks through the PGM lensHow firms are actually adopting AI and how faster data changes research cadenceEurope’s defense build-out and the rise of national champions and small-cap innovatorsInterpreting market concentration and what it signals about competitionInflation oscillation, policy mix, and why the Fed’s tools have limitsTariffs as a regressive tax and how costs pass through to consumers over timeUS exceptionalism narrowing and why ex-US markets may lead in the coming cycleThe Draghi report and tearing down barriers inside the EU single marketComparing late-1990s tech to today’s AI build-out and who the next leaders may beGrowth vs. value: focusing on sustained profit inflections, not cheapness aloneUsing stakeholder analysis to link macro themes to bottom-up stock workBiggest opportunities: Japan, Korea, Europe, select emerging markets, and parts of the Middle EastBiggest risk: a breakdown in the global order amid US-China tensionsClosing lessons: stay curious, stay nimble, question narratives, track the factsTimestamps00:00 Introduction and Olga’s role at William Blair02:49 The Perpetual Growth Machine explained06:24 Policy bottlenecks, incentives, and growth09:32 AI as a general purpose technology and productivity math11:53 Practical AI adoption inside investment firms15:06 Where PGM points to opportunity right now16:26 Europe’s defense spending and emerging winners19:02 Macro setup and consumer health20:42 Inflation today and what’s changed under the hood22:46 The Fed’s dilemma and limits of monetary policy25:00 Tariffs 101: who pays and how it shows up28:55 Early evidence in goods prices29:41 US exceptionalism vs. the rest of the world31:00 The Draghi report and a real EU single market33:11 Can Europe and others catch up in tech?36:15 EU financial services barriers and capital deployment37:07 Portfolio implications: why look ex-US39:10 Late-1990s tech vs. today’s AI cycle41:20 Concentration risk and competition policy42:26 Value vs. growth through the PGM lens44:48 Base rates, sustaining growth, and churn at the top49:33 Marrying macro themes with bottom-up research51:08 Firsthand observation vs. headline narratives52:20 Biggest opportunities across regions53:00 Middle East changes and new listings54:48 Biggest risk: global order and US-China tensions55:36 Parting advice for investors

Ned Davis Research’s Chief Global Investment Strategist Tim Hayes joins us to break down NDR’s “360°” weight-of-the-evidence framework—how price, breadth, sentiment, macro and valuation fit together—and what those signals are saying right now. We dig into why he still classifies this as a secular bull market with rising secular-bear risks, how to separate real breadth thrusts from dead-cat bounces, the evolving bond/equity correlation, mega-cap concentration risk, the case for value/EM in a defensively rotating tape, and why gold’s secular and cyclical trends remain compelling. You’ll also hear how NDR allocates across stocks, bonds, cash (and gold), and Tim’s timeless lesson for investors: stay objective, disciplined, and flexible.Topics CoveredNDR’s 360° process: price + sentiment + macro + valuation, combined via equal-weighted composites (“weight of the evidence”)How to use breadth, put/call, and thrust signals without getting faked outSecular bull vs. secular bear: what would actually trigger the secular turnReading the bond market: why the stock/bond correlation flipped in 2022 and what a 10-year above approximately 5.0–5.25% could meanConcentration risk in mega-cap tech; implications for the U.S. vs. the rest of the worldWhere value, small caps, and EM can shine in defensive rotationsGold: drivers of the move, secular/cyclical setup, and role in a balanced allocationPractical allocation: when cash was king (2022), current market-weight posture, and sizing for gold“No Pets Allowed”: why aggregates beat single “pet” indicatorsUsing historical analogs carefully—and what to learn (and not learn) from themTim’s core lesson: you can’t forecast reliably—stay flexible and evidence-drivenTimestamps (YouTube Chapters)00:00 Don’t fight the tape—or the Fed (opening context)01:06 Intro and why NDR’s process beats single charts02:58 NDR’s 360° framework and composite models05:31 Indicators that matter: breadth, sentiment, macro/valuation08:11 Asset-allocation model (stocks/bonds/cash) and real-time record09:27 “Secular bull intact; secular-bear risk rising” explained13:04 What counts as a secular bear (’66–’82, 2000–’09)15:05 Tightening vs. easing cycles and thrust reliability16:22 What a breadth thrust actually looks like19:55 From sentiment extremes to 50/200-day confirmation20:06 Bonds and stocks: the correlation flip since 202222:47 Duration, rate-cut hopes, and why cash led in 202224:02 Mega-cap concentration risk—paths from here27:23 Valuation: tech earnings yield at extremes; U.S. most expensive29:14 Where value/small caps/EM can win; China’s role in EM33:25 Gold’s standout year—drivers and positioning36:16 Gold’s secular and cyclical bull case37:13 How much gold belongs in a balanced portfolio40:32 “No Pets Allowed”: trust aggregates, not single signals47:16 Bear-watch vs. rally-watch signals in 202549:02 Using historical analogs without overfitting51:00 NDR culture: objectivity over narratives53:41 Why independence matters53:59 Two closing questions: contrarian belief and one lesson59:03 Where to find Tim and NDR; disclaimer