Female Potential Podcast

Taking a look at burnout, overwhelm at work and what we can do to alleviate stress – with Grace Galliott from the Natural Health Clinic Michelle: 12 years ago I had a burnout. I’m not sure that I’ve ever said the words in exactly that way before because I think for most of the last 12 years I’ve actually been in denial that it was actually a burnout. I think I had in my head that burnout meant that the men in white coats came and dragged you out of the office or at the very least you went off on long-term sick, never to return, when in fact what happened to me is I just turned up one day and quit, and turned my back on 20 years of hard slog to get me to the position I was in, which was on the board. It was only recently, when I started researching this subject, that I looked at the symptoms of burnout and I thought, “Actually I was experiencing most of those.” One of the classic symptoms leading up to a burnout is denial that you’re in trouble and I think I was totally in denial of the stress levels I was under. I was routinely visiting my doctor with a variety of symptoms, but all I really wanted was something to help me keep going. I didn’t want to listen to her advice about slowing down at all and likewise, I had a coach at the time, but it was a similar story. I was just looking for ways to help me do more, rather than looking at how I was doing things, why I was working at breakneck speed. I was accumulating a whole list of ailments, IBS, food intolerances, shortness of breath; I regularly had adrenal failure. I knew about stress relief so I was running, which I’ve learned since is a really bad way of working with stress, because it’s another “charge” activity. My body was giving up anyway, and I kept getting running injuries. I wasn’t sleeping well. I was self-medicating with wine and although I was working long hours, I was becoming less and less productive during those hours. I remember I had the attention span of a gnat by that time. I think the most damaging thing was that I saw stress as weakness and something shameful to admit to, so there was a lot of outwardly putting on a show, but inwardly self-loathing, beating myself up for not being able to cope better and beginning to feel overwhelmed and useless. That’s what drove me to quit without another job to go to. I did get a couple of companies approaching me for other high-powered roles, but by then I was so full of self-disgust and self-loathing, I’d failed. I couldn’t do this anymore. That’s when what I call the “long year of the soul” began. It wasn’t just a “dark night”, I can assure you. It felt like I’d fallen off a cliff. I didn’t know who I was without the job and I just felt totally worthless, which apparently is one of the signs of burnout. When did it all go wrong? I loved my job, and I think I was pretty good at it up to a certain point. Maybe the job grew faster than I did. Also, I was working at a time where that first shift came from being able to leave work at work and having a little handheld device which enabled you to read your emails at home. That was the start of the 24/7, always-on culture. That was 12 years ago. Reading an article in the Sunday Times recently on women and stress today, certainly the problems I was encountering back then haven’t got any better. In fact, they sound like they have got 10 times worse, but what might be different now to back then, is I think we might be able to talk about stress more now? Can we admit it? Do we still see stress as a sign of weakness?Are we now better informed on what to do, the alternative therapies and other methods available to us? I’ve been working as a coach now for 12 years and during that time, I’ve met a lot of stressed people. I think, like I was back then, most people who are stressed come to learn how to cope, how to do more, how to get more done rather than do less. Sadly it’s often not until people are already burned out that I get to work with them. Today, I have invited a local therapist, Grace Galliott, to join the Podcast. Grace runs the Natural Health Clinic over here, which offers a whole array of different therapies, a lot of them around stress prevention. I’m really interested to hear what Grace is going to have to say to us today. Could she have saved me from my burnout? I’m delighted to say Grace is now with us, so welcome, Grace. Grace: Hi, Michelle. Michelle: I just need to tell you, Grace and I have been working together for, what’s it about? Grace: About three years, I think. Michelle: Three years or so, where we do swaps. I coach Grace and she gives me all sorts of wonderful treatments. I just have to say, she’s brought this tea for us to drink. What on earth is this stuff we’re drinking? Grace: This is mushroom tea. It’s called Lion’s Mane and it’s by the company called Four Sigmatic, who I’ve really got quite obsessed with. Lion’s Mane is really useful for brain function and helping us to focus and concentrate, so I thought it would be quite useful for our podcast this morning. Michelle: Right, okay. Shall we say it’s an acquired taste? Grace: Earthy. Michelle: Yes, it’s earthy. She’s also got me doing a celery fast at the moment or rather celery juicing. Grace: I have you juicing in the morning, yes. Michelle: Yes, so I was just saying that I’ve never seen breakfast look so appealing while I’m juicing my celery, but that’s not what we’re here to talk about today. Stress, are you seeing lots of stressed people come through your clinic? Grace: Oh, absolutely. I mean, I just think in this day and age, I know you spoke about your burnout and that being 12 years ago, but I think it’s even worse now. People are so over-stimulated with the addition of social media, that with everything else on top of it, I think it’s just been too much for people. Michelle: What I was saying before about being ashamed of being stressed, I was the only woman on the board and within a very male-dominated world, I didn’t feel I could be seen as the weak woman. Is that something that you see? Grace: No. I think the clients that are coming in, they are coming in where they are desperate and they’re just like, “Please help me. I’m not really sure what to do, I just think you can help me.” They do feel comfortable with me, but obviously I’m not sure how they air that in the workplace or if they do at all, because I only see people coming with their problems. I’m not sure how they speak about stress in the workplace. Michelle: Let’s pretend to time travel back 12 years and I’m coming to you instead of going to my doctor, going “Give me a coping pill,” and I came to you and said, “Look, these are the symptoms I have. I’m really beginning to struggle at work.” What would you do with me? Grace: Okay, first of all, if we go into what physiologically happens in the body when we get stressed, the adrenals release cortisol and adrenaline. Then that in turn causes our heart to race. We can get panicky, we can get IBS. But stress can also be a good thing. If you’re going to a meeting, and you’ve got adrenaline pumping through your body, then you’re going to probably perform better, but if that’s constantly happening over time and the blood is rushing to the extremities because the body thinks we need to run away from a bear or a lion, even though there’s nothing to run from and we’re just sitting at our desks, then that’s when the problem starts, because cortisol is constantly being released all the time. Usually cortisol helps to keep inflammation in check, but when it’s constantly being released all the time, inflammation can run riot and it can lead to adrenal fatigue as well. We can’t avoid stress, but if we’re constantly being chronically stressed then the effects on the body are just awful, from heart disease to obesity. Stress massively impacts our microbiome, which then in turn massively affects our mood, how we feel, disease, all that kind of thing. We know now that stress affects our DNA and damages our telomeres. Everything is initially caused by stress of some kind. Because we can’t avoid it we need to look at the natural solutions, and there are many. That is, I find, especially with social media now, that there is lots of information available for people quite easily, so I think that is helping. Michelle: That’s a positive. Grace: Massive positive. A lot of people follow natural health pages and all that kind of thing now with people offering different advice and people getting desperate and trying things and realizing, “Actually this is making a difference to how I feel.” If we go in now to the things I recommend for stress, the first thing is yoga and exercise, massively reduce cortisol and can help us to get more embodied. Most people are just in their heads and not embodied in their body, which is really, really important to feel grounded, because when you get stressed, you get overwhelmed, it’s really easy to just stay in your head and then that can have a really negative effect. Michelle: Yes, I mean, there’s been an absolute explosion of yoga, but mostly for women. You don’t see a lot of guys in the yoga classes. You also said exercise, but I was doing running at that time, which I’ve been told isn’t good. Grace: Yes, if you actually burn out, then any physical exercise is not a good idea because you’re depleting an already-depleted body. The things like yoga and meditation are definitely a good idea. If you are suffering with just a little bit of stress, there is no harm in doing things like weight training in the gym, just not endurance stuff, pushing your adrenals even further to the max, releasing cortisol even more, but there’s lots of things that you can do to assist bringing that cortisol down if you feel that’s really going to help. Michelle: Yes, so it’s the endurance stuff which is the problem Grace: Yes. It’s just so much stress on the body. Michelle: I was doing half marathons. It’s tough. Grace: Yes, so I’m not surprised you were in

An interview with Liz Taylor-Kerr on her mission to teach adults, particularly women, about investing, and also to increase conversations with our children about financial literacy. Today, you find me waiting for my guest to arrive, Liz Taylor Kerr, will be with us shortly. I'm dashing around, I've got a to do list as long as my arm and I was thinking, "Oh, Why Money Matters, that doesn't sound like a really interesting title and I wish I could go back to doing the Vagina Dialogues," which is what I'm planning to do soon. I got to thinking yes, I've got a to do list as long as my arm and where on that to do list is looking at my money, my investments, my future, my pension? It doesn't even get on to the list. For some reason this just isn't a sexy subject for me. I am hoping that by the time Liz finishes talking to us today that it will be slightly sexier, but more important than sexy is it might motivate me to actually do something. I think, I can hear the scooter now. Hello Liz, welcome. Liz: Thank you very much, good to be here. Michelle: Before we go on, I call this Local Women Global Issues and you've probably already realized this local woman's got a bit of an Aussie accent. Liz: A bit. Michelle: How long have you lived in Guernsey, Liz? Liz: I have been here 16 years, so 17 years in the UK, 16 in Guernsey. Michelle: It must've been just after you moved to Guernsey that I met you then? Liz: Yes, my first job. Michelle: We used to work together at Credit Suisse, quite a while ago now then? Liz: Yes. Michelle: 16 years. Liz: Yeah, about 15, 16. Michelle: Wow. Liz: Seems like another lifetime. Michelle: Yeah. I left there 11 years ago, and you? Liz: Probably 13 or so. Yeah, about 13 years. Michelle: You started a new business, can you tell us a little bit about this new business of yours? Liz: There's two elements to it really. The first is just to teach adults, particularly women, about investing. The second is to try to increase the conversations that we have with kids about investing, so financial literacy and just generally opening up conversations about money, and finances, and investing in general. Michelle: I suppose really it's from mothers often that the kids are going to learn about money? Liz: Yeah. There are two elements really there's learning at school and then learning at home. A big part of kids, and I've noticed this recently with my four-year-old, is that they just copy everything that you do, so if you're not confident in yourself about money issues and finances, and stuff in general then that generally passes on to the kids whether you say it or not. It's just living by example and quite often it tends to exacerbate, and kids leave school, and then they've got their own issues, they've got to learn by experience and the problem just continues and continues. Parents say, "Well, I'd like to do better for my kids and give them the start that I didn't have from my parents," so that's what we're aiming to do. Michelle: For me, I suppose, during those years when my daughter was growing up because I was working in finance, we were relatively well-off at that point that I probably threw money at her a bit. Liz: Yeah. I think there are two sides to it. I think, there's throwing money at it and I think also that money seems to be a more taboo topic than any other topic including the most obvious topics that are taboo. People just don't talk about it, people don't talk about how much they earn, they don't talk about how much money they have in the bank. With kids and stuff so many people of said to me lately that kids seem to have the idea that mum goes to the shop, pays with a card, and that card has an unlimited amount of money on it. Just simple conversations like this is actually money that is on there, it's not unlimited, and we just need to start having those conversations that are not difficult conversations, but we probably overlook them just in everyday life. If we're aware of it a bit more and just naturally able to chat about stuff. It's nothing personal, you don't have to tell your kids how much you earn or anything, but just the fact that this money is in this bank account and once it runs out it runs out. Michelle: I think what taught my daughter money was going to university and having to live on a restricted budget. Liz: Yeah, it's a big thing. Also, they say that, I think, 78% of kids have their own money by the time they're 11 so pocket money, but they don't start, even in the UK, they don't start learning about it until their 14 or so. They've had years of owning money and not necessarily sure what to do with it, and they don't get the lessons about savings, and things. Then, when they go to Uni it's a massive learning curve. They learn, but you just think, "Well, if they already knew that before they started Uni would that give them just that extra advantage that other kids might not have?" Michelle: Absolutely. I've called this episode Why Money Matters to Women, and partly that was motivated by this whole thing of women ... There's lots of stats out there and I'm not going to even begin to try to quote them, but how women don't earn as much as men, we don't invest as much as men, and we're more likely to end up in relative poverty in old age than men are. That often we just, as women, as I said in my intro it's just not top of the priority list. Liz: It's not. Women tend to be concerned about home life and making sure that there's enough money to feed the kids, making sure that everything's paid off. They inevitably control the budget in the house, but then that's just as far as it goes and if there's any left over the actual investing side of things they just tend to leave it. I think that more and more women are concerned about what happens. The other problem often is, that if people go, for example, to see an investment advisor firstly, they pretty much ignore them, I've heard a number of stories about that, and secondly they don't really know that they can trust the information they're given. I used to be an investment advisor in Australia at one of the banks and I was only able to recommend the bank products and so it was this ethical dilemma that I could only recommend products that actually were performing really badly and that was the sole way that my performance was appraised, was how many people I put into this product. I know from experience that you can't always trust these people because they are doing supposedly what's right for you, the investor, but actually they're doing what's right for their pocket at the end of the day. Michelle: Absolutely. I went to see someone, it was just a pre-crash and I was looking to do something on my portfolio. They were trying to sell me something and I was playing dumb, I was playing the woman. At the end of it I said, "So, you're telling me that there's a fee on this, a fee on this, and a fee on that," and it was something like 7%. I know this was in the old days, but there was some kind of 7% in that, and I kind of knew what to say, and what to ask, and what to look for, but even so I'm still very wary of going to investment advisors. Liz: They've changed the laws lately so that they have to be more transparent about the fees that they receive, they're not allowed to receive commissions for putting you in certain products anymore, so there should be a lot more transparency to that, but I think just inevitably that over time people just don't trust them. Also, I know if you go into a situation and you just get ignored or the questions that you ask you're treated as though you're asking stupid questions it just makes you feel dirty in a way. You just don't want to put yourself into the situation where you're made to feel stupid for asking a question that you should legitimately be able to ask. Michelle: I think that's a big one. There's so many women over in Guernsey who work in the financial services industry, but if you're working in a fairly narrow field you know what you do, but you don't necessarily know what that person over there does, or how the banks work, or how the trust companies work, or how different investment places work. I went to a talk not long ago and it was quite high-level just going on about that we should be looking at our money, and this, that and the other. Then, when the question came at the end what's the minimum that your bank will look at the answer was a million and everyone, "Oh, thank God I didn't ask that question." There are places out there that will look at much smaller sums, but you don't necessarily know that. Liz: No, you don't. Also, I don't think you necessarily need to go to an investment advisor, depends on what you're wanting to invest in. I think the problem a lot of the time is that there's firstly, an overwhelm because there's so much information out there. You can go to a whole lot of different sources and they will give you some information, but not necessarily all the information. Obviously, everyone has different personal situations and so what's right for one person is not necessarily right for another person. At the end of the day, the processes and the steps that you go through to determine what's right for you is pretty much going to be the same no matter what situation that you're in. You can still go through steps to determine what your investment objectives are, how much you're going to invest, and all this kind of thing, but at the end of the day whatever your ultimate decision is, its going to be different for everyone, but the steps that you take to get there are still going to be the same. Michelle: Can you tell us anything about the steps? Liz: Sure or is this where I say no? No, no, absolutely. The first thing you really need to do is work out whether you're going to be saving or investing. There is a difference and people go, "Yeah, I know what the difference is," but when you actually put them on the spot and say, "Well, what is the differenc

Today we have a guest with us, and her name is Kay Davidson. Kay’s a style guru, a business wear designer, and the creator of an online fashion magazine. Is it fashion, or is it style? Kay: It’s more style. Michelle: Right, so welcome, Kay. Kay: Hi. Thanks for having me. Michelle: Lovely to have you here. Now, we’ve got lots to talk about today, because the other thing that I didn’t mention in the brief introduction is that it’s not just style you’re about, it’s also sustainable fashion. Kay: Absolutely. Sustainability is my passion when it comes to clothes and fashion, and that’s why I always say that I work with style rather than fashion, because “Fashion fades, Style is eternal.” That’s a quote by Yves Saint Laurent. I’ve always believed that we should make clothes in a sustainable and ethical manner, and my business wear collections have always been produced in that way because I was selling to businesses who actually cared about their staff and needed to avoid any sort of scandal of child labour or slave labour or poor environmental policies when you’re dressing high profile clients. But when it comes to the world of fashion, they turn a blind eye in the name of saving money, in the name of producing fast fashion, and I am predominantly talking about the fast fashion that has really, it is destroying the planet each day that we sit here. Michelle: Wow. That’s a lot of information already. Kay: Sorry. My soapbox. Michelle: Yes, I know. We’re all the same if we get onto our real topic of passion. So I met Kay, what was it, a couple of years ago, now? Kay: Yes, I think it could be three years this summer, actually. Michelle: Oh, really? Really? Oh my god, already. We ran an event down in Jersey together, and that was really … We were looking at style Kay: It was Why Image Matters. Michelle: Why Image Matters, and about having confidence through what you wear. One of the things Kay does is helps to make small tweaks in the way you look, in what you’re wearing. So over the last couple of years, we’ve been meeting on and off, and then quite recently, you started talking to me about this sustainable fashion thing, and there was a film trailer that you sent out, River … River Blue, was it? Kay: River Blue, yes. I did a TEDx Talk in March, which was all about sustainability. I finally got my little platform where I could have an audience hopefully to listen to me in my whole encompassing why clothes are important to us, why we should put more significance into what we wear, and not just from an image point of view, from the point of view that if we don’t start waking up to being conscious about what we consume clothing-wise, we will strip this planet of its resources. Michelle: Yes, absolutely, and we’ll put a link to the TEDx Talk on the show notes and will add trailer for River Blue, but it really got to me when you sent that trailer, because it’s such a disconnect between going to a shop buying … well, Primark or whatever, and you go there and you see all these things and you go, “Yes, I’ll have one of those, one of those, one of those, one of those,” and then actually seeing what is going on- Kay: Behind the scenes, Yes. It is fashion’s dirty secret. It really is. They just don’t want you to know the reality of how your clothes are produced. I mean, I suppose you can … You take it back to some animal welfare campaigns, we were all appalled when we saw battery chickens in cages and the atrocious treatment we did to animals 10, 15 years ago, and fashion is finally being called out on its processes. Kay: The problem is that the fast fashion trend when it came along, I think everybody got involved making a quick buck, but nobody really understood just quite how the growth of fast fashion would go. It was just massive. I mean, there’s a hundred billion garments produced a year in fashion currently. That’s a heck of a lot of … and fashion is the second largest pollutant of clean water on the planet, so the toxic chemicals that are used in the production of fabrics and garments, they’re heavy metals. They can’t get filtered. The water’s not processed. They can’t afford to process the water out of these factories. They just chuck it back into the water streams, which is going on the crops, it’s getting into the food chain. It’s a huge, huge problem. They can’t produce it cheaply enough and then they disregard the environment in the process. Michelle: So we’re all now aware of plastic and it’s gone plastic crazy now in terms of single use plastics, which has everyone’s attention, because of Blue Planet, has been focused on this, but actually is plastic the biggest issue, or is all of these toxic chemicals actually the bigger issue? Kay: It’s both. The good thing is, the plastic … If you look at the Greenpeace sites or the people that work on environmental issues, they’ve been screaming about this for at least five years, probably more. I’m aware of it for five years, with it being said, We’ve got to wake up and take action. Finally, Blue Planet, David Attenborough, has actually pricked the public conscience and we’re all now much more conscious of picking up plastic and disposing of it properly. The supermarkets now, of course, have this massive job of catching up, of producing less packaging, because the customers are starting to say, “No, we don’t want it,” and that’s kind of how I would like to see fashion going. I’m very much trying to raise the awareness in the customer’s eye to say, “Come on, if we all get together and we all say no to our supermarkets,” so we stop consuming the damaging products and we actually look for sustainable or ethical products within a brand and support that line within a brand, we will slowly but surely start to see some change and some shift come. Michelle: But surely we need something like a David Attenborough to do a documentary on … Kay: I’ll have to write him a letter. “Dear Sir David, please.” And the other really … When we were on the Blue Planet and we’re on the oceans, so now I have read this twice now but I haven’t done the scientific backed research to actually qualify it, but twice I have now read that the micro-bead cosmetic problem that again was a headline news from cosmetics washing into the … was ending up down the sinks, down into water supplies and then in our food sources. Well, the microfibers that shed from polyester clothing, synthetic clothing, there’s actually eight times more microfibers in our food, in our fish and in our shellfish, than there is from micro-beads! Michelle: Oh, my God. That’s startling. Kay: The only thing we can do currently to fix this, until they develop better fabrics that don’t shed, is there is a product called a Guppy bag, so if you do have a lot of polar fleece or … My biggest thing, I confess, I now have to use is my dog’s pet bedding, I have to use a Guppy Friend wash bag to wash my dog’s pet bed, because it’s polyester. And I know it sheds, I just shake it outside, and it’s not his hair that’s fluffing, it’s the little tiny pieces of microfiber off his bed. We all have these pet beds that are soft and fluffy, and I know a lot of people have got polar fleece throws as well as clothing. When you’re washing those, straight down the plughole, millions of tiny fibres are being shed every time you wash them. Michelle: So every single time we wash our clothes, we are polluting the planet? Kay: Yes. Exactly. Michelle: Oh, my God. Kay: I know. Michelle: That really is shocking. Kay: It is shocking, and we’re only really discovering this. We’re discovering, when they’re analysing the food sources, they were looking for traces of plastic, they were looking for traces of microbeads, and they’re going, “Hold on a minute. This is polyester origin. This is actually clothing, fabric,” traced back to the fabrics, rather than … So that’s the end user can do something significant now by washing less, is a good start, but if you do have a lot of polyester-based fabrics, please do buy yourself a Guppy bag. I think it was the Germans that invented it a couple of years ago. So again, people have been aware of it, but it’s just starting to come up to the surface now as a public awareness. Michelle: What actually is a Guppy bag? Kay: Just like a big wash bag, just a big wash bag, nylon zip bag. I actually wash a lot of my clothing in a protective bag anyway because my clothes are precious and I don’t want them to be agitated too much by the washing machine, so literally you just zip things into it and then you put the whole bag in the washing machine. Michelle: And then is there some residue that’s inside the Guppy bag? Kay: Yes, so like you clean your filter in your tumble dryer. Michelle: Right, and then what do you do with that? Kay: In the bin. Michelle: In the bin. Kay: Not down the plughole. Michelle: Right, Ok, so that’s going to go to landfill or to … Kay: Yes, and that’s going to take two to three hundred years to break down in landfill. Michelle: Wow. Kay: So all synthetic fibres … Let’s start with the problem. So synthetic fibres are from petrochemicals, made from oil, so that’s not sustainable. There is only an infinite amount of oil left on the planet, and current predictions, we’re going to need two Earths’ worth of resources by 2030 to support the demand, if we stay consuming at the rate we’re consuming. So you’ve got your synthetics that you’re making them from and then they take huge amounts of energy to create the yarns, to knit the fabrics or weave the fabrics, which is mostly coal fire in big industrial plants, so you’re using more natural resources there to make these synthetics. Then we wear them; sadly, so often, not very often. They sit in our wardrobes and we don’t wear them enough, and then if we do get rid of them to landfill, it takes two to three hundred years for nylon, polyester, polyamides, et cetera, to break down. Michelle: Are those chemicals or fabrics in most of the things we wear? Obviously, if we’re wearing 100% linen

So today, we’re looking at working Mums, and the decisions that have to be taken when you have a baby. We make an assumption that the best thing for baby is to stay at home as long as possible, and we make an assumption that the best thing for our career is to get back to work as soon as possible, and therefore it’s always going to be a balancing act between these  two competing demands. Sometimes, circumstances make that choice for us. In Guernsey, we’ve only recently got maternity legislation in place giving the right to six months’ maternity leave, but there is no right to payment for that period. So if you don’t have an employer that is offering best practice based on a UK model, you often have to get back to work as soon as possible just to pay the bills. Michelle:             Back in the day, when I had my daughter, I went back to work full time at ten weeks – there was no option. We needed to do that. But I do wonder now, having become a coach and knowing what I know now about psychological development, what impact that had on my daughter, with me leaving her at such an early age? Michelle:             So we’ve got two interviews in today’s podcast. Our first interview is with Nadine, who is in recruitment and is a new mother herself, and our second interview is actually with my daughter, Fav, who is all grown up now. Fav works as an Assistant Social Worker, in particular working with small children and their development. So it will be interesting to hear her take on what happened when I went back to work so early. Michelle:             But more about that later, because Nadine has arrived. Hello Nadine, lovely to have you here, and we have a visitor as well, we have Sienna. Nadine:                Yes, who might make a bit of noise! Michelle:             Yes, a slight unexpected turn here! You haven’t got any child care today? Nadine:                No, no. Childminder on holiday and people having operations, and Mum out the island, so yes. That’s one of those things. Michelle:             That’s one of those things. So if we hear little person noises in the background, we’re going to be very sympathetic about that today. Nadine:                Thank you. Michelle:             Okay, Nadine, so what’s your maternity story? Nadine:                Well, I’ll start with Sienna being an unexpected surprise. Newly married, and our plans were to see a bit more of the world, do some more traveling, both very career driven. James has his own business, which is still quite new, and I was wanting to progress my career still. I’d been working in HR, converted to recruitment, so that was still quite new, and I was looking to make some steps upward still. Nadine:                I had to have the difficult conversation with my directors, and say, “Look, I am pregnant. Bit of a shock,” and I didn’t know what that outcome would then be, but I have two fantastic directors. I’m very lucky. So I looked to take off six months. Half paid and then half unpaid. So again, that is more than I know a lot of people get in terms of leave and payment. So I was lucky. Sienna came late. That ate into the time I had expected to have off with her. Michelle:             Oh, so same as me? Nadine:                Yes. Nadine:                So I returned when she was only five months old. So I did feel at that time, “Oh, she’s still a baby, baby.” The time was coming closer for me to return to work, I knew I wanted to, but could I do that straight off? And I felt I couldn’t. So I had the conversation to go back part time, mornings. So I did nine till two. So she was with the childminder or my mum, and that’s the way, yeah, we juggled it. And I was still breastfeeding, so I was having to express while I was at work. Michelle:             So what was expressing at work like? I mean, back in my day, going back to work was the end of breastfeeding, really. It seems a lot more acceptable now to do the expressing thing, at work. Nadine:                Yes, I think some people are supported in a flexible, understanding environment, whereas others I have heard have had to go into the filing cabinet and do it on lunches. Michelle:             So Nadine, I noticed your job title is Associate Director, and I was wondering, did you have that role before you got pregnant? Nadine:                No, I didn’t. I left my place of work on a Recruitment Manager title, so it was when I came back a few months ago, must have been, at least eight months where I was then given the title Associate Director. Michelle:             Right, lovely, so you bucked the trend then, in terms of getting a promotion, effectively, whilst working reduced hours? Because that’s one of the thing that I really wanted to ask from your world of being in recruitment. Do you notice that people, once they’ve moved on to reduced hours, suffer from not getting as many in the way of promotions? Nadine:                Yes, I think in organizations there is an expectation, and there’s always that conversation internally for, “Oh, well, they’re recently married, they’re going to start a family, should we be giving that extra responsibility and title at this point in time?” Which is hard, because more often than not, these people being considered have got to where they’ve got to, have got the potential to be at that level, so it is a shame that they are not being given the opportunity because they’ve been a mother. Michelle:             So discrimination is still out there, alive in the workplace? Nadine:                In Guernsey, I would say, yes, we are quite antiquated and we haven’t come up to the way of other places in the world. Michelle:             I used to be a director in the finance industry, years ago, and we employed a lot of women back then.  Probably starting at 7.00 am going on until 3.00 pm. So they were doing full time hours, but they were doing them on a flexi basis, but it was very hard for me to make a case for any of them to go up to supervisor or manager. What’s the experience now? Do we still have a large proportion of our women working flexi time and part time hours? Nadine:                Yes, I do believe that we do, and that is supported, and a lot of employers say, “Yes, ok, we want you to be able to do the school run,” so they do the drop offs and get there after nine and leave by half past two to go and pick the children up again. So that is definitely happening. I think it is harder entering the workplace, rather than when you’re being in there, you can negotiate things. You’re a known entity, you’re proven, they know you’ll work hard during those hours and get the job done. So yes, a bit harder to try to get into the workplace on those terms. Michelle:             So if you’re already working and you’re a known quantity, then you’re likely to get that flexibility, if you want it? Nadine:                Yes. Michelle:             But if you’re out of work at this point and want a part time job, how hard is that? Nadine:                I would say hard. Michelle:             Right. Nadine:                Yes, I would say, you’d be waiting for a while to find the right thing, right hours that suit you. Michelle:             Yes, but there’s a lot of jobs out there? Nadine:                Yes. Michelle:             So aren’t employers being flexible? Nadine:                I would say not. I would go back to my view of Guernsey being quite antiquated and not creative in its thinking when looking at recruitment. Michelle:             So is part of the issue that we’ve got here is that flexible working is seen as female friendly, rather than family friend? I.e. it’s women that do it, rather than all genders doing it? Nadine:                Yes. I would say men probably are, in today’s society, still seen as the breadwinners, and the ones that do the nine to five jobs and get the promotions from it. Michelle:             But back when I was running the Women’s Development Forum, we did ask, on one occasion, for all the women in the room, who were the main breadwinners in their households to stand up, and it was more than 50% that stood up at that point. Nadine:                Wow! Michelle:             And that might have just been the audience we were attracting, but there’s a lot of women out there who are the main breadwinners. But in terms of your job in recruitment, and women re-entering the workforce, I was reading online, actually, this morning, about a UK government initiative where they’re looking at putting £1.5 million in finding the “lost women”, that is the women who have been out of the workforce and are trying to get back after one, two, three years of taking time out to have children. What’s it like for people over here if they’ve been out for a while to get back in? Can they get back in at the previous level? Nadine:                It would be very hard. They’d have to prove, I suppose, that they have done their personal development during that time, and maybe done some volunteering that supported the skills, and those extra things to be able to get back in at that level. So you know, I’ve got someone on my books at the moment who was at manager level, and now looking for administration part time, because they know that a manager needs to be with their team full time and that they have been out of the game, so their knowledge wouldn’t be up to scratch in the role, because of the advancement in all sorts of systems and laws and regulations since the time she’s been off. Michelle:             But isn’t this an incredible waste of talent? Nadine:                Oh, yes. But at the same time, she knows, and I know, that if she got the break she needs at the moment, once the children had grown up more, she could commit more hours and then get … You know, she’d work her way back up. But you know, eventually. Michelle:             It does seem really that we haven’t moved on very far in the 30 year

A look at #MeToo from a Guernsey perspective with local lawyer Rachel Michelle: The global #MeToo campaign and Time’s Up, have been so big over the last few months. I’ve been finding it impossible to keep up with the daily flood of information. I find myself seesawing between, “This is fantastic. I’m really with this,” and the, “Hmm, I’m not so sure. What’s the backlash going to be? Are we going too far?” The one thing that I know for certain is whilst there’s so much attention out there in the global media, that I’ve not heard a single conversation in the media locally here in Guernsey. So what’s that all about? Michelle: Today, I’ve invited a lawyer, Rachel, who’s going to come to talk to us. We’re going to look at this subject from both a Guernsey perspective and a wider global one. She’ll be with me later. Before Rachel arrives, I’ve done the usual thing, I’ve gone Googling, to look up what I can find on the #MeToo campaign. I’ve gone straight to the font of all knowledge called Wikipedia. This is what I read, #MeToo spread virally in October 2017, as a hashtag used on social media, to help demonstrate the widespread prevalence of sexual assault and harassment, especially in the workplace. It followed soon after the public revelations of sexual misconduct allegations against Harvey Weinstein. The phrase, long used by social activist Tarana Burke, to help survivors realize they are not alone, was popularized by actress Alyssa Milano, when she encouraged women to Tweet it, to give people a sense of the magnitude of the problem. Since then, the phrase has been posted online millions of times, often with an accompanying personal story of sexual harassment or assault. The response on Twitter included high profile posts from several celebrities, and many stories of sexual violence were shared, including from Gwyneth Paltrow, Ashley Judd, Jennifer Lawrence, and Uma Thurman. The original purpose of #MeToo by creator Tarana Burke was to empower women through empathy, especially the experience of young and vulnerable brown or black women.” Michelle: When I read this, the word that really jumped out at me was empathy. In the #MeToo whole thing, one of the things I’ve found has been quite absent really is the whole concept of empathy for the women going through it. There seems to be so much criticism, one, of the men, but of the women themselves who have stepped up and spoken out. Jia Talentino, writing in The New Yorker, was talking about the inevitable backlash against the #MeToo campaign. It was her view that it was interesting, given the extent of the whole campaign, how many people seemed to be more concerned with overreach than anything else. That came to light after the publication of the Catherine Deneuve letter. It was written as an open letter and signed by her and 100 French women. They were defending the freedom to bother. That’s the first time I’d heard that expression. What they were really saying was, “Yes, rape is illegal.” They went on to say, Rape is a crime, but trying to seduce someone, even persistently or cack handedly is not, nor is men being gentlemanly a macho act. Michelle: It went on about the fact that the whole #MeToo campaign has collapsed rape and serious acts of misconduct with other stories of people in a position of power making a gesture of “friendliness”, shall we say, a hand on the knee, etc. How is it possible to really draw the line? Where do you draw the line? Where does one thing become another? Have the women, Catherine Deneuve, etc., done more harm to the overall campaign than helped it? I can’t help but go back to the President Trump election. He was accused of sexual impropriety with or by 19 different women, and was caught on tape bragging about sexual assault, and boasted on national television about advising friends to be rougher with their wives, and yet he was still elected President of the United States. How can that be possible? I wonder would it be possible now? Would post #MeToo, the vote have gone different? It’s impossible to say, but it’s one of the things that is now on my mind, as a potential positive outcome of the #MeToo campaign. Michelle: Why do so many men and women want to point the finger, want to criticize, want to criticize other women for stepping up and speaking out? Why is it so difficult when you have been the subject of a serious sexual assault, to actually speak up and get empathy? This word again, empathy. It’s long been talked about as a thing, that women tend to be harder and more critical of other women. It’s the sad reality that is part of this #MeToo campaign too. Women often accuse other women of using their sexual attraction to get them somewhere. Erin Gloria Ryan was writing in the Daily Beast, If women sleep their way to the top so frequently, then one would think there would be more of them at the top. Among women, using one’s sexuality to advance one’s career is generally frowned upon, but it’s a pretty common assumption that people make about women who succeed. As the waterfall of #MeToo stories has shown, powerful people are still trying to use their power to obtain sex. They’re also using sex to maintain their power, men and women do this. Women who try to weaponise their sexuality are at best sleeping their way to being the top’s plus one. Michelle: She went on to say, “In the myth of the woman sleeping her way to the top, the only people the woman is harming is herself. Men sleeping with women to the bottom is more insidious. It blocks potential, it interrupts lives, it changes industries in ignoble ways. As women, we look down our noses at women who may have given in to sexual coercion, in the hope of it helping their careers. In truth, even if they did do it, with that express motivation, that won’t help them, unless they’re actually capable of doing the job.” Michelle: In support of the #MeToo campaign, the whole awards season has been littered with red carpets with black dresses and white roses. Another campaign was started in the Berlin Film Festival, which is #Nobody’sDoll. That one was encouraging women to forego the tottering heels and tight dresses, and says, “How come you’ve got to wear those type of outfits anyway to an awards’ ceremony? Whether they’re black or not, they’re still a way of making women conform to a stereotype.” Which made me think, “How different would an awards’ ceremony be if everybody just rocked up in comfortable clothing?” Would that take something away from it? Do we not spend most of the time looking at awards’ ceremonies, looking at who turned up in what dress? Michelle: Which gets us back to the argument of can you be a feminist and dress in a provocative, sexual, alluring way? Which reminds me, a couple of years ago I was running an event, and somebody told me the story about her daughter, who had been really interested in Princess Dragon Slayer. She said, “Mummy, I want to kill dragons, but I want to wear a pretty dress while I’m doing it.” The whole notion of killing dragons brings me onto the point of power. Really, is #MeToo just about sex, or is it more about the abuse of power? When we get to the abuse of power, women do abuse power, maybe not as often and maybe not in the same way, but abuse of power is still there. I think really, the whole issue tiptoes over from one of purely sexual harassment, into one of workplace bullying and bullying men of women, men of men, women of women, women of men. Apparently, one in six men who were surveyed, said they had experienced some sort of sexual abuse, which yes, is a lower number than the number of women who have claimed to have experienced it, but it’s still significant. Michelle: Going back to the whole thing of women in power. The stereotypical idea of a female boss is often of somebody who is the ice queen, the bitch from hell. As a feminist myself, obviously, I remember being at school, I remember being bullied in the playground. Some of the behaviour we see in offices still is very much like the playground. You can make your best friends for life, but also you can really suffer at the hands of people that aren’t so nice. I also think there’s a lot of social rhetoric that’s out there about women pitting themselves against women. Yes, maybe not for this broadcast, I have other stories to tell about my time when I was the only woman on a board, and what that was like. Michelle: It was the other day, I was talking to somebody about what is the history of women pointing the finger and being nasty at other women? Which is the social norm we look to accept. She was saying to me, “Ah yes, but don’t forget it’s not that long since the Salem Witch Trials, and how in those days you could get off, or be excused, or save your own life, by pointing the finger at somebody else as being a witch.” I do wonder how much of that is still part of our culture. Michelle: Fascinating as witch trials are, that’s not the subject for today’s podcast. Looking at my watch, Rachel should be here any moment. I’ll be back shortly. Michelle: Hi Rachel, thank you ever so much for coming along and helping me out on this podcast. Rachel: Absolute pleasure Michelle. Good to see you. Michelle: And you. I believe you’re going between Guernsey and London now on a regular basis. Rachel: I am indeed, and I’m loving it. I fully think I’ve found the best of all worlds. I’m quite happy. Michelle: Yes, cool. Today we’re looking at the whole #MeToo, and very much from a Guernsey perspective. I know now you’re going between the mainland and … Rachel: The big city. Michelle: The big city, you’ll have a wider perspective. Can you just start us off with the legal side of sexual harassment? I don’t know if there’s any official definition of what is or what isn’t sexual harassment? Rachel: There is. In Guernsey, our sex harassment laws fall under the sex discrimination ordinance. We don’t have a set piece of legislation governing sex harassment. There is also a crimina

So today I have the absolute pleasure of interviewing Emma Despres. Emma is a local yoga teacher, a Reiki master and now a published author of her first book “Dancing with the Moon; A Spiritual Journey through IVF.” Now, I met Emma probably around 15 plus years ago, we actually both did our Reiki training together. All the way through from Reiki 1 to Reiki Master, but Emma of course has gone on to do something wonderful with her Reiki training whereas I only tend to practice on myself or the cat. I also see Emma from time to time at her yoga classes, she does some excellent classes and especially her retreats, I went on a wonderful one last year at Glastonbury and will be going again this year coming. Michelle: Also, I see Emma from time to time because we’re both part of this bonkers group of women who do all year swimming. And we occasionally meet up to go into the sea, which I can tell you is pretty cold at this time of year. But today, we’re here to talk about Emma’s new book “Dancing with the Moon,” which is her account of her journey through IVF. But talking about it very much from a spiritual and holistic perspective in what is otherwise a very clinical process. So I’m really looking forward to hearing what Emma has to say. So, welcome Emma. Emma: Hi, thanks for having me. Michelle: Well, thanks ever so much for coming on. Okay, now first I’ve got a confession I haven’t actually read the book. Emma: Don’t worry. Michelle: It’s very new out and I haven’t actually downloaded or ordered it yet, but I can assure you it’s there on Amazon and I’ll put the link in the show notes. So, Emma, tell me, how did you come to write this book? Emma: Well, I think I was maybe, six months pregnant with my second son and I seemed to be attracting a number of students and Reiki clients who had fertility issues, and I found that I was repeating my story to them in terms of going through IVF. And I thought, actually d’you know what, I’m going to write about this for my blog. I’d already kind of put it out there. I have made no secret of the fact that we have undertaken IVF to conceive. So I started writing these blog postings, which my mum always checked for me, and they started to become more extensive and I realized there was quite a lot to talk about, potentially. And I guess towards the end of that pregnancy I had a sense that I probably had enough material to make it into a book and I suddenly had this idea of what it might be called. And then the birth of my second son provided a really neat conclusion to the book and so there, I just thought right, this is it. It’s got to be done. Michelle: Okay, right, fantastic. So let’s wind back a little bit. So you’ve got two children, both of them conceived through IVF? Emma: Yes Michelle: So can you tell us a bit more about your own fertility story? Emma: Yes, to a point. I think we’d been trying for a year, you have to be trying for a year really before you can see the medical profession and we hadn’t, obviously conceived at that point. So, I was a little bit desperate because another month passes by with your menstruation and no pregnancy. We had to go through for some initial tests, which indicated that we might have a significant problem, so we were in the medical specialist system quite quickly over here. We’re quite lucky actually that we have that service. And the further testing took place which again, showed that we probably weren’t going to be able to conceive naturally, if at all. So, from there, we were put in contact with Wessex Fertility Clinic in Southampton, which is one of the providers for IVF the MSG have a relationship with them. And fortunately they were able to help us. Michelle: Okay, so I read on the little bit of the blurb about the book, about how IVF was as far away as you wanted to get and that there was this idea that you wanted to consciously conceive on a bed of rose petals. Emma: I know. I did, yes, I had this really lovely idea of this spiritual, conscious conception in my head that involved rose petals and relaxing music and incense burning and candles flickering. Yes, unfortunately that was very far from the reality actually in the end. Although I have to say, you do need to be careful what you wish for because I really wanted a conscious conception, and I don’t know that you can get more conscious than conceiving in a clinical environment, actually Michelle: Oh my gosh, yes. I would never have thought of that. Emma: No. I think because it’s very easy just to kind of have sex, make a baby, well maybe for some people it’s very easy, you know, a drunken stupor. But in this process, we actually had to sign forms and be very present to what we were doing and turn up, as well as going through what we had to go through. So we were talking about this the other day actually, my partner and I about how there can be no doubt for our boys that they were wanted, they were absolutely, definitely wanted. Michelle: So what’s the actual process of IVF like and how was it for you? Emma: It’s pretty stressful actually, because IVF is not an exact science so you’re not guaranteed a positive outcome, but you have to go through the process anyway. And I think that’s for me where my spiritual practice really helped. You know it is very clinical, you’re having to put synthetic drugs into your system to control your hormones. Now there are very different approaches to the process depending on what you’re presenting with, and we had ICSI, which means that essentially I had to be manipulated to produce more eggs than I would do normally in a cycle. I think it was 11 actually, I can’t really remember, which is a lot because ordinarily it’s just one a month. So you’re taking drugs to encourage that, which can have effects on the body in terms of bloating and feeling sick and things like that. You’re injecting as well, which is not very nice either. Emma: And then sperm is taken from the man and injected, it’s quite amazing actually, an individual sperm is injected into an egg so that it increases your chances potentially of conception. But it doesn’t always work necessarily. And then once you’ve created, if you’re lucky enough to create an embryo, then you need to prepare your body in quite a quick turnaround. For some women it’s only three days depending on the quality of the embryo. For others, it could be five days where your embryos grew into blastocysts, which means they were more developed and had potentially more chance of taking when implanted. But you’ve got quite a quick turnaround in which to heal yourself, well in my opinion, that is a quick turnaround to heal yourself from A, having this stimulation to create more eggs than you would do normally, but also then to have them taken out. So there’s some sort of healing that needs to happen as a result of that before the embryo or blastocyst is implanted back within you. Emma: So yes, it’s a pretty tricky time. And then the worst time is then after that process, you’ve got like 12 to 14 days to wait before you can take the pregnancy test which can be pretty scary for people and lots of anxiety arising there. Michelle: Yes, and it sounds so kind of clinical. Emma: It is. Michelle: You know we’re actually talking about human life here- Emma: I know. Michelle: … we’re talking about real babies. Emma: Yes, I know. That’s the thing, it is so clinical and you have a booklet that you follow with everything that you’re meant to do. And it’s all about when you’re taking your drugs and what you should be doing and even down to the actual procedures themselves, it’s in a clinical environment of course, it’s in a fertility clinic. An unmarked clinic actually in this case as well because there’s still so much stigma attached to it, I guess. Michelle: Gosh. Emma: And yes, it is pretty scary that when you actually go to have the embryo, or blastocyst in our case, implanted again, that doesn’t sound very nice does it? It is in a little theatre room and you’ve got your legs up in the stirrups, which is not pleasant at the best of times, and trying to make it kind of as special as you can. The best thing really is that you get to watch what the consultant is doing, she’s got something that she’s inserting it into you and you can see that on the screen. And when they release the embryo or the blastocyst into you, you can, if you’re lucky enough, you can see the conception like a little star almost. So that was quite special and we’d been told to look out for that which we did and that sort of made it a bit more magical I suppose because it’s like the spark of life going into you almost. Michelle: Yes, gosh. Emma: Yes. Michelle: So how many viable embryos did you get? Emma: Oh gosh well the first, what did we end up with? We ended up, that first round, we ended up with two blastocysts, which means that they were five day old embryos that had started to hatch, so they were more likely to take. I think that’s right. I lose track actually. I know we definitely had two because one of them didn’t take as it happens so we didn’t end up with twins. And they froze another blastocyst at that time and they also froze three embryos, so just three day embryos which we could use for later. We did use one of them, when we came to do the process again, a second time. They kept the blastocyst frozen and they defrosted, that seems weird saying that doesn’t it, the other three embryos. They tried to take them through to blastocyst, but two of them died, one took. Emma: We implanted that one, it didn’t take so we had a failed round. Which I detail quite a bit in the book actually because I knew it wasn’t going to, I knew it wasn’t going to take. And I think for me that needed to happen for me to understand a little bit more around the IVF process and also the role that our mental state plays in whether it’s going to be successful or not. And also whether you’re ready. I wasn’t ready at that point and I just wasn’t feeling it. Wher

Hello and welcome to the very first Podcast from Female Potential   My name is Michelle and I am your host for these episodes. This is my first venture into Podcasting so I am going to be learning how to do this as we go along.   One of my aims in starting to podcast is to introduce some new listeners to this format, people who have followed me on other mediums in the past, so if this is you and this is your very first Podcast listen - welcome to a whole new world of online listening!   I’m of the generation myself who’ve only recently converted to Podcasts or should I say ventured past Radio 4 podcasts, so I’ll make a few recommendations for my favourite Podcasts in the show notes.   Favourite Podcasts The Guilty Feminist - http://guiltyfeminist.com/ Late Night Woman’s Hour - http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p02zhq5l Death, Sex and Money - https://www.wnycstudios.org/shows/deathsexmoney   To start with I want to say that all other Female Potential Podcasts after this one, will have guest interviewees and will be run along an informal conversational style, but this first one will just be me prattling on as I introduce myself and Female Potential; our ethos, ideas and ambitions for both the Podcast series and the organisation itself which is more than just a Podcast platform.   So why am I and Female Potential podcasting in the first place?   For 8 years I ran a not-for-profit called the Women’s Development Forum, the forum had a physical presence and in total we ran over 120 meetings usually with 100+ people in the room.   WDF was a forum to support the gender equality conversation and an easy safe space for women to network.   The Forum was of its time; it was founded in 2009 and ran until last summer. At inception we were still just hinting at gender balance being a good thing, then we went through the Davies report years, where the conversation got more strident - hey gender balance is a business issue not a women’s right’s issue! And when this didn’t solve things, we went on to look at all the complex nuanced arguments behind unconscious bias and what was really keeping the gender imbalance as stuck as it is.   It’s not like all of these topics have gone away or been solved, they haven’t, but in a post-Weinstein world the arguments are more nuances and complex than ever. And at the same time other global shifts are occurring in the female space – but more on that later.   Switching from holding these conversations at lunchtime events to branching out into Podcasting was the suggestion of our millennial daughters – both avid consumers of podcasts.   So through Podcasting we hope to reach out to both the previous WDF audience and also potentially to a younger audience who are more likely to listen online than attend events. But I know that will depend on our content and style. My daughter has already warned me about using my posh telephone voice!   When we decided to close WDF, we had a bit of money left over - that money has paid for the Podcasting equipment, the software and some training and will ensure that for time being at least our format will be free. And will be free of those if you want to keep on the air – donate now - pleas.   We will also be free of the conversations that suddenly launch into an advert and a promo code to buy the product,. That’s not to say we won’t occasionally plug something but that will be because we genuinely like the product and think it’s good, not because we are being paid to do so.   What is exciting is that without adverts and sponsors we can truly have our own voice and opinions, and also that these opinions are able to flex, morph and change in relation to local and world events as they happen.   So the Podcast is a way for us to continue having eclectic female focussed conversations about issues that affect women in their lives and workplace. And a way to raise topics no one else seems to be talking about locally, well not in public anyway.   On launch there will be 3 episodes ready to listen to and thereafter we will release one per month with the monthly FP newsletter.   If you have any ideas or would like to feature in a future episode, do please get in touch on michelle@femalepotential.co.uk   The thing about Podcasting is that while we might be focussing locally, we are of course discoverable globally via all the normal podcasting platforms. So if you have found Female Potential through your usual podcast platform you might want to know a little more about the locality where are we broadcasting from : -   So we are broadcasting from the lovely island of Guernsey in the Channel Islands, for those that don’t know us it’s a wonderful place to live. Situated off the Normandy and north Brittany coasts in France, we are a self-governing UK crown dependency.   An island of just 25 sq. miles and 63K inhabitants. We are not a tax haven but an area of low tax, which has enabled a thriving off-shore finance centre to become our main industry over the past 30+ years.   Despite Guernsey being a beautiful place to live, with near full employment the gender equality issues here are just as pronounced, if not more so, than in the UK and nearby Europe.   Like many small communities we have an aging demographic, high cost of living and high property prices, mean most women need to work, but then struggle with the high costs of child care.   Island life also has its benefits – short commute times, if you are local then grandparents can be close by, 40 miles of glorious coast with 30 or more beaches, cliff paths and all land at the edge of the island with open access for all.   Our interviewees will in the main be local women – hence our strapline – local women, global issues. In particular we will look at how global issues affect us locally, with our different legislation and often out dated work practises.   My challenge already has been persuading local women to agree to be interviewed! I’ve had comments such as - I have my personal brand to consider! I could say that off air but not on it, what if someone recognised my voice? What if my employer heard what I say and doesn’t like it?   So our developing protocol will be first names only, and on occasions not even that. In this way identities and reputations will be protected and hopefully we can tease out what people really think and start some long overdue and much needed dialogue around contentious topics.   Of course some people will want to be named in full for example the local author who is the subject of Episode 2 and has just launching her first book Dancing with the Moon; a spiritual journey through IVF. Of course we want to name her in full – Emma Despres - and plug the book – she certainly deserves that after all her efforts.   If I think of anything else about podcasting I’ll add it in later but for now let’s get on with the rest of our topic for today – Female Potential.   So in part – today I am conducting my own interview!   Question – WDF, Female Potential’s predecessor, was an organisation dedicated to gender equality, is that Female Potential’s mission too.   Answer - yes but only partially. Let me explain ….   Firstly let’s be clear - I am a feminist – that is I believe in the political, economic, and social equality of the sexes. You see when you put it like that - who can possibly say they are not a feminist?   For 8 years I led an organisation, looking at the issue of gender imbalance in the workplace from a traditional corporate world view. That is looking at the issue of gender equality from within a masculine encoded system.   From that view point we see a constant diet from the media of statistics about women not being adequately represented on boards, the continuing gender pay gap despite 30 years of legislation. Arguments that teeter into discussions about sexual harassment and the disadvantages of gender, before getting bogged down in endless discussions about family friendly policies.   Men and women have bought into the idea that: - what is currently happening isn’t right somehow needs fixing can be addressed by being indignant about it while cajoling the women to buck up, lean in, step up and generally sort themselves out.   I don’t think I’m alone in being bored rigid by the endless media treatment of this subject. I find myself flicking over articles on a daily basis that don’t say anything new, and with the Forum I eventually lost patience and the will to live, through inviting speakers to events who came with glossy job titles and supposed exciting new angles on the topic, only for them to trot out the same old stuff I’d been quoting for the past 10 years+!   From this angle the situation always feels insurmountable.   In the time WDF worked with sponsors EY on their Women. Fast Forward campaign, the clock on their website went from ticking down from 89 years a couple of years ago to the current 216 years which is now the estimate by the world economic forum of how long it will take to reach global gender parity!   Of course stats like that are going to be disheartening and lead us to give up! In a way I did.   Sitting outside the system for some months has helped me see the situation differently.   What has become evident is that if we only view this topic from within the patriarchy, with our man goggles on if you like, then as women we are going to see ourselves as perpetually running to catch up – the “also rans” in the human race. Trying to fashion ourselves on men as we do so, judging our success and self-worth on job titles and pay packets, air-miles travelled and shoe horning ourselves into ways of being that don’t come naturally to most us.   We end up feeling like victims. If we’re lucky, then not victims of any individual man, but of a system, a system which seems stacked against us. It starts to feel hopeless and when the constant striving starts to really hurt, we notice – hey was my body actually designed to spend all these hours indoor