Flying Free

Coming June 2025: The Divorced Christian Woman Podcast! This is our last Flying Higher moment as we are gearing up to begin production of our new podcast! Find out what we'll be talking about in our first season!(Don't worry, the Flying Free podcast will continue to serve up hope and healing for Christian women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships right here every Tuesday afternoon!)

On today’s episode, I’m talking with Dr. Andrew Bauman—licensed mental health counselor, author, and founder of the Christian Counseling Center for Sexual Health and Trauma. We’re digging into his powerful new book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities, and whew…this one’s going to name things you’ve felt for years but maybe never had words for.This episode is a raw, no-fluff look at what’s really happening behind the stained-glass windows:82% of women say sexism shaped their church experience—and 35% report sexual harassment. Let that sink in.How twisted theology has been used to minimize abuse, silence women, and turn forgiveness into a weaponReal, doable steps churches can take to stop being breeding grounds for harm and start becoming actually safeWhy men in leadership must do their own deep healing before they can lead anyone elseThe holy importance of listening to your gut, your body, and your sacred knowing when something just feels offIf you've ever been told to “just forgive and move on,” felt erased in your own spiritual community, or wondered why abusers get protected while survivors get blamed—this conversation will wrap you in validation and truth.Dr. Bauman speaks as someone who’s been on both sides of this story. And his message? You’re not crazy. You’re not alone. And the God you love is nothing like the systems that harmed you.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Read Dr. Bauman’s newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism and Abuse in Christian Communities.Connect with Dr. Bauman on Facebook.Check out Dr. Bauman’s blog. Like what you heard today? Listen to Episode 41 and Episode 164 of the Flying Free Podcast with Dr. Andrew Bauman, and then head over to Episode 45 and Episode 279 to hear my interviews with his wife, Christy Bauman. Guest Bio: Founder and director of the Christian Counseling Center: For Sexual Health & Trauma. Dr. Bauman is a therapist & author of 7 books including his newest book, Safe Church: How to Guard Against Sexism & Abuse in Christian Communities.

In this episode, you’ll hear what it really means to heal from emotional and spiritual trauma—and why that work is more about daily practice than one-time events. From ego detangling to setting boundaries, this episode is packed with perspective shifts and tiny “aha” moments that might just change how you show up in your healing journey.Resources mentioned: How to Do the Work by Dr. Nicole LePeraFlying Higher

Is your husband’s addiction tearing your marriage—and your heart—apart?In today’s powerful episode, I unpack the often-overlooked reality of addiction-fueled abuse. We’ll talk about how addictions—from porn and gambling to drugs and spending—impact the brain, hijack relationships, and leave women spiritually and emotionally devastated.If you’ve ever tried harder, prayed longer, or changed yourself to fix what’s broken in your marriage, this episode is a healing balm and a wake-up call. I want to remind us that addiction is the problem—not you—and offer biblical, practical wisdom for reclaiming your power, peace, and dignity.Key Takeaways:Addiction ≠ love problem. You can’t love, pray, or submit your husband out of his addiction. Change only happens when he chooses it.Addiction changes the brain. It affects dopamine systems, impulse control, and emotional regulation, making empathy and honesty difficult.You are not crazy. Gaslighting, mood swings, and financial chaos are symptoms of a deeper issue—not proof you're “too sensitive.”God does not call you to endure abuse. You are permitted to set boundaries, seek legal protection, and pursue peace—even if that means separation or divorce.Healing begins when you turn inward. Like one brave woman in the Kaleidoscope said, "Help me get free from the constant pain"—and everything changed.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Some Flying Free Podcast episodes you might be interested in: “Can My Alcoholic Husband Change?” and “Am I the Problem in My Marriage?” 

This week, I'm excited to share something transformative I just learned from the book "Coming Alive" by Barry Michels and Phil Stutz. Have you ever felt so completely demoralized that you couldn't see a way forward? That crushing feeling when you believe nothing will ever get better? I've been there too.In this episode, I'll talk about a powerful tool from this book that can gently pull you out of those darkest emotional spaces and reconnect you to hope, resilience, and even joy. Through the story of Ann, a woman devastated by another failed relationship, we explore how we often chase external solutions (like the perfect partner) to fix our internal emptiness, only to find ourselves more disappointed when they don't deliver the salvation we crave.Here's what you'll learn from this episode:• How to identify when you're caught in the trap of "false hope" and why external achievements, relationships, or possessions never fill the void we think they will• The simple 5-step Mother Tool practice that can lift you out of demoralization and reconnect you to your inner strength, even when everything feels hopeless• Real examples of how this tool has helped people transform their creative blocks, unhealthy relationship patterns, and even approach chronic pain with renewed resilienceWhen we're at our lowest, what we need isn't logic or problem-solving – we need love. That's exactly what the Mother Tool helps us access: an unconditional, nurturing presence inside ourselves that sees our worth regardless of our circumstances.This practice isn't about fixing your external situation; it's about shifting your emotional state so you can show up to life with clarity and strength. Because when you reconnect to that loving presence within, you discover the resilience to keep going – not because things are perfect, but because you're loved.Join me for this heart-opening episode where I walk you through exactly how to use this tool in your own life. And if you're craving more connection and growth, remember that my Flying Higher mentorship program offers weekly classes, coaching, and a beautiful community of almost 300 women supporting each other's journeys. You can learn more at joinflyinghigher.com.

Ever been told you’re too sensitive? That you just need to forgive more? Or that if you were a better Christian wife, everything would magically get better?Yeah. Me too. And Dr. Ramani Durvasula’s book It’s Not You is here to throw a holy wrench into that narrative.In this week’s episode of the Flying Free Podcast, I’m unpacking the powerful truths in this book and showing you exactly how it validates the lived reality of women in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships. We’re talking:What narcissistic abuse actually looks like (hint: it’s not always loud or obvious)The spectrum of narcissism and how it shows up in faith communitiesHow to stop blaming yourself and start protecting your peacePractical strategies to regain your emotional footing (no seminary degree required)This episode is part validation, part education, and 100% you’re-not-crazy encouragement. If you've ever felt spiritually duped or emotionally wrung out in a relationship that was supposed to be “biblical,” I promise—this one will hit home in the best way.Hit play, breathe deep, and remember: You are not the problem. You never were.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Read Dr. Ramani’s book for yourself, It’s Not You.Check out some related, past Flying Free episodes: “What is Gaslighting in a Toxic Narcissistic Relationship” and “Using Art to Heal from Narcissistic Abuse.” 

What if the thing keeping you stuck… is your death grip on trying to hold it all together?In this short and fiery episode, Natalie calls out the spiritual hustle we’ve been sold—and gently offers a better way. If you’ve been clinging to control, overthinking your faith, or quietly drowning under “good Christian woman” expectations, this one’s for you.You don’t need to strive harder.You need to breathe, unclench your jaw, and finally release what’s not yours to carry.Press play and feel the shift.Go deeper with me in Flying Higher! 

Welcome back, butterflies! In this episode, I’m joined once again by my friend and fellow coach, Diana Swillinger. We’re diving into the second part of an important topic today: Can we gaslight ourselves?Gaslighting is usually something done to us—manipulation that makes us question our reality. But what happens when we internalize it? When we start running the script on autopilot and doubting ourselves before anyone else even gets a chance? Buckle up, because our Kaleidoscope members had some thoughts on this, and we’re breaking it all down.Key Takeaways: Idealizing Others – When we believe that if we just act a certain way, that person will finally approve of us? That’s a trap.Believing the Unbelievable – Sometimes, we’re so conditioned to believe our abuser isn’t lying that we ignore all the red flags. It’s like trying to finish a puzzle when someone keeps hiding the pieces. Maddening, right?Giving Away Our Credibility – We assume the other person must be right and know better than us. Newsflash: That’s not always true.Agreeing Against Our Gut – You ever nod along while every fiber of your being screams, Nope, not true!? Over-Spiritualizing – Just because someone prays about something doesn’t mean their actions magically become good. Intentions don’t equal truth.Minimizing Abuse – “Maybe I’m making a big deal out of nothing.” Nope, friend. If it feels bad, it is bad. Maybe even worse than bad. How Faith Can Condition Us – Ever been told you’re “thinking evil” just because you question something? That’s not faith. That’s control.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereDiana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Fear. It creeps in when you’re trying to sleep, whispers worst-case scenarios while you’re washing dishes, and makes you second-guess yourself every time you try to take a brave step forward.But here’s the truth: not all fear is bad. In fact, some of it is a God-given superpower... and some of it? More like an overactive smoke alarm when you've just made toast. In this Flying Higher moment, we break down the two kinds of fear—clean fear that protects you and dirty fear that keeps you stuck. You'll learn: ✨ How fear really works in your brain and body ✨ Why Christian women in abusive relationships often live in chronic fear ✨ The surprising root fear hiding under all the others ✨ How to tell if fear is leading you—or limiting you ✨ Practical ways to reclaim your peace (without gaslighting yourself)If you’ve ever been afraid of making a mistake, being alone, messing up your kids, or just feeling your feelings—this one’s for you. Join me for the entire course called The Fear Cure inside Flying Higher by visiting joinflyinghigher.com

In today’s episode, I am joined by life coach and fellow survivor advocate Diana Swillinger to explore a fascinating and often misunderstood topic: Can you gaslight yourself? We dive deep into what gaslighting is, how it manifests in relationships, and whether people unconsciously manipulate their own thoughts and emotions as a survival mechanism. This candid discussion sheds light on self-doubt, emotional survival, and the process of breaking free from harmful thought patterns.Key Takeaways: Definition of Gaslighting: A psychological manipulation tactic where an abuser causes the victim to question their own reality, memories, or sanity. This can be intentional or unintentional.Gaslighting as a Category: It encompasses various abuse tactics such as blaming, projection, and minimizing.Self-Gaslighting as Survival: While traditional gaslighting is a manipulation tactic used by one person against another, self-gaslighting often arises as an unconscious coping mechanism to minimize conflict and protect ourselves from emotional pain.Breaking Free: The first step in healing is acknowledging the truth and replacing self-gaslighting with truth. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereDiana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying to please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past five years, she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

In this episode we’ll talk about a struggle that many Christian women face after leaving an emotionally abusive marriage—parenting children who sometimes exhibit the same unhealthy behaviors as their fathers.Through real-life examples and compassionate insights, I explore why this happens, how mothers can reframe their perspectives, and practical steps they can take to strengthen their relationship with their children while continuing their healing journey.Key Takeaways: Understanding why kids act like their fatherReframing the perspective on kids' behaviorHealing yourself to better parent your childPractical parenting strategiesBuilding a safe, loving home environmentRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question here

Let’s talk about triggers. You know, those moments when someone says the “wrong” thing, and suddenly you’re ready to flip a table? Most of us see triggers as a bad thing—proof that we’re too sensitive, too emotional, or just plain too much. But what if I told you that your triggers are actually pointing you toward healing?In this week’s podcast episode, we’re unpacking: ✔️ What triggers actually are (hint: they’re not just annoying mood-ruiners) ✔️ Why they happen (spoiler: your brain is just trying to protect you) ✔️ How to heal them so they don’t hijack your peace every time someone breathes wrong ✔️ The ultimate trigger survival guide (yes, you can recover faster and freak out less!)If you’re ready to stop letting triggers control your emotions and start using them as a tool for growth, this episode is for you.Join me and hundreds of other Christian women 10Xing their own healing and self-development inside Flying Higher! 

In today’s episode, I explore the difficult and often shocking realization that wickedness exists in the world—and sometimes within our closest relationships. Responding to a listener's inquiry and using insights from Adam Young’s “The Place We Find Ourselves” podcast, we’ll unpack the biblical definition of wickedness and discuss how it operates. I’ll also share personal experiences and strategies for recognizing and dealing with destructive individuals.Key Takeaways:The Bible differentiates between normal and wicked people. Understanding these distinctions helps us navigate relationships wisely.Wicked individuals attack and blame others when confronted with their harmful actions.Evil individuals actively seek to destroy and humiliate their targets.A person's true nature is revealed in difficult situations, especially when they are confronted about their harmful behavior.Healing from exposure to wicked or evil individuals is a lifelong process, but it becomes possible when we remove ourselves from the toxic environment.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out Episode 93 of “The Place We Find Ourselves” podcast with Adam Young.Read the article I mentioned, “Why Foolproofing Your Life Will Save Your Life,” and then grab Jan Silvious’ book, Foolproofing Your Life.Some related Flying Free Podcast episodes you may enjoy: “What Do You Do If You’re Married to a Fool?” and “What are the Biblical Grounds for Divorce? (And Other Questions!)” 

What if I told you that creativity isn’t about painting or poetry—it’s about how you live? How you take the broken pieces of your story and shape them into something new, something beautiful, something yours.For too long, you were told who to be, what to believe, and how small to make yourself. But here’s the truth: You were created to be a powerful co-creator in your own life. And in this episode we’re talking about how to break free from perfectionism, fear, and old conditioning so you can start building a life that feels like you.Join Flying Higher in March HERE!

In today’s episode, I answer a question about surviving a husband’s rage while still in the home and preparing to leave. I want to share insights on coping strategies, the importance of unhooking from an abuser’s words, and how to create a safety plan. If you're living in survival mode, this episode offers encouragement and practical steps to help you move toward freedom and healing.Key Takeaways:Fear is a natural response to an abusive environment. Trying to "toughen up" emotions to endure abuse is not the solution; rather, finding ways to escape is essential.Unhook from his words. An abuser’s insults and accusations are projections of their own delusions, not reflections of your worth.Abusers see their victims as LEGO characters. They create a false narrative about who you are and expect you to conform. Recognizing this can help you detach emotionally.Radical acceptance is necessary. Understand that an abusive partner does not want genuine connection—only control and transaction.Survival mode is not living. Every day you endure abuse is survival, but true healing comes from stepping into a life of freedom.You deserve a future beyond survival. Healing is possible, and there are communities and resources to help you move forward.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Need a resource to help you as you unhook? Check out my interview with the founder of the app, Aimee Says, and then try it out for yourself!Want a free chapter of my book, “Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage”? Sign up for my mailing list, and I’ll send a copy straight to your inbox. 

Have you ever felt like you don’t belong anywhere—like you’re floating between worlds, disconnected from faith, family, or community? You’re not alone. In this episode, we dive into a powerful shift happening in Christianity, where people are seeking belonging before belief. But what happens when you feel like you don’t belong anywhere? We unravel the truth about belonging, challenge the cages we’ve been taught to stay in, and explore what it really means to be free. If you’ve ever questioned your place in the world, this personal message from me to my private community might just change everything. (Yes, I'm giving you a little taste of working with me inside the Kaleidoscope!)I'd love to mentor you! Join me inside Flying Higher!

In today’s episode, I explore the complex question: Is divorce worth it? For women who have endured long-term emotional and psychological abuse in marriage, this decision is often fraught with fear, confusion, and uncertainty.I examine the disadvantages of staying in an abusive relationship, as well as the significant challenges faced during and after the divorce process. With thought-provoking questions and practical insights, this episode will help you assess whether leaving your marriage is the right choice for you. If you're feeling trapped and looking for clarity, support, and a path forward, this episode is for you.Key Takeaways:The emotional and psychological toll of staying in an abusive marriage.Physical and financial disadvantages of staying.Social and legal challenges of remaining in abuse.The harsh reality of divorce.Life after divorce—the path to healing.Guiding questions to determine if divorce is the right choice for you.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Check out my interview with the founder of the app, Aimee Says, and then try it out for yourself!Read the article I mentioned, “How to Leave an Emotionally Abusive Relationship: 10 Steps.” Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

What if the real problem isn’t the messy room, the frustrating coworker, or the difficult conversation—but the lens you’re seeing it through? In this episode, we dive into the story of Sarah, a mom who transformed her daily frustration by shifting her perspective using the CLEAR model. If you’re ready to reclaim your peace—without waiting for anyone else to change (because we all know THAT ain't happenin')—this episode is for you! Join me and hundreds of other Christian women leveling it up in my affordable live mentorship program, Flying Higher! 

In this eye-opening episode, Natalie shares her personal story of spiritual abuse and excommunication, offering a powerful backdrop for her conversation with author and spiritual consultant, Remy Diederich. Together, they delve into the dynamics of toxic faith, spiritual abuse, and how unhealthy church cultures can harm individuals and families.Remy, the author of Broken Trust, shares insights from his decades of ministry experience and his passion for helping people heal from spiritual abuse. Whether you're grappling with toxic religious environments or recovering from years of harmful teachings, this episode offers hope, practical advice, and a fresh perspective.Key Takeaways:Understanding Spiritual Abuse: Spiritual abuse often involves toxic leadership that weaponizes faith to control, manipulate, or shame individuals.Toxic Faith vs. Spiritual Abuse: Toxic faith is the belief that you must perform or meet certain standards to please God, while spiritual abuse occurs when leaders use those beliefs to exploit or control others.The Impact of Spiritual Abuse on Relationships: Abuse within churches often mirrors abusive dynamics in families, leading to distrust, division, and confusion.Healing from Spiritual Abuse: Recovery begins with identifying harmful patterns, stepping away if necessary, and seeking support through books, therapy, and supportive communities.The Power of Questioning Toxic Narratives: It’s okay to question teachings and leaders. Faith flourishes when it’s rooted in personal connection with God, not human-made rules.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Read one (or all) of Remy’s books: Broken Trust, Healing the Hurts of Your Past, Return From Exile, and Stuck are some of my favorites. Connect with Remy on his site. Go visit Remy over on YouTube. Email Remy at remy@readingremy.com to request an audiobook code (limited supply).Check out Be Emboldened for support as you recover from spiritual abuse.Related article and episode: “Bethlehem Baptist Church Is Not Safe for Emotionally Abused Women,” and “Is Your Church Safe?”Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Remy is a seasoned pastor and spiritual consultant with a heart for helping others overcome life's challenges. Over his three decades of ministry, he's authored six books that offer practical guidance and spiritual support for those seeking healing and connection to God. Remy's expertise extends beyond the pulpit. He's spent 24 years as a spiritual consultant at an addiction treatment center, where he's witnessed firsthand the transformative power of faith and hope. Today, Remy dedicates his time to empowering pastors to build healthy church cultures and coaching individuals on the themes of his books. A lifelong resident of Minneapolis, Minnesota, Remy is married with three adult children. His passion for helping others shines through in his writing, speaking, and counseling.

If you’ve ever side-eyed church culture and thought, “This can’t be what Jesus had in mind,” you’re not alone. In this episode, we dig into Christianity After Religion by Diana Butler Bass and talk about why the old way of doing church is crumbling—and why that’s actually good news. If you’re tired of toxic religion but still crave something real, this conversation will give you hope, validation, and maybe even a little fire to keep going.Join the Flying Higher Butterflies as we study the Bible, read books together, coach, and do classes in a live mentorship online setting each week! 

In this episode of the Flying Free Podcast, I address a listener's heartfelt question about how to talk to a three-year-old child about an abusive father while navigating divorce proceedings. I provide insights on child development, emotional regulation, and practical strategies to support both mother and child through this challenging transition. I also share ways to document healthy parenting for court proceedings and offer encouragement for mothers seeking to break generational cycles of abuse.Key Takeaways:Developmental understanding of a three-year-oldHow to talk to a toddler about divorce without alienationNormalizing divorce for kidsNavigating court and custody challengesPrioritizing self-care and healingRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Your local library. Check out books about divorce for kids to normalize the situation for them—for free! Recommended episodes: “When Coercively Controlling Fathers Sabotage Mothers’ Relationships With Their Children,” “Raising Resilient Kids Even if Your Co-Parent Is Destructive,” and “Help Your Kids Overcome Trauma from Abuse and Divorce.” Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

In this thought-provoking episode of the Flying Free Podcast, I sit down with author and essayist Liz Charlotte Grant to explore the complexities of faith, scripture, and healing after spiritual trauma. Liz’s debut book, Knock at the Sky, delves into the questions many of us grapple with during deconstruction and offers an artistic, fresh approach to reading the Bible.If you’ve ever felt disillusioned by literal interpretations of scripture or struggled to reconcile the Bible with the harm inflicted by its misuse, this episode is for you.Key Takeaways:Faith as a Journey, Not a DestinationLiz encourages listeners to embrace uncertainty and approach the Bible with curiosity rather than fear.Faith isn't about having all the answers; it's about walking into the unknown with Jesus as your anchor.Permission to Wrestle and QuestionDeconstruction doesn’t signal a loss of faith but rather an act of trust. Asking questions shows a desire for authenticity in our relationship with God.Survivor-Centric Bible ReadingSurvivors of spiritual abuse can reclaim agency by approaching scripture in ways that feel safe and healing. It’s okay to prioritize certain passages while setting others aside.Diverse Perspectives Enrich UnderstandingLiz emphasizes the value of exploring interpretations from scholars across cultures and disciplines to deepen our understanding of scripture.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources: Liz Charlotte Grant’s book: Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the BibleLiz Charlotte’s website: lizcharlottegrant.comFollow Liz Charlotte on InstagramRecommended episodes: Episode 283, “A Closer Look at Spiritual Abuse,” and Episode 291, “The Deconstruction Books That Have Changed and Healed My Relationship with God.”Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Liz Charlotte Grant is an award-winning essayist whose first book, Knock at the Sky: Seeking God in Genesis After Losing Faith in the Bible, released in January 2025. She explores a wide range of ideas in her writing, including exploring the heartbreak of Elisabeth Elliot's third marriage, her own surprise disability, and the discovery of dark matter. 

In today’s episode, we’re continuing my conversation with life coach Diana Swillinger on parallel parenting. We’re diving into some of the tough questions you’ve sent in, like how to manage parallel parenting without falling into parental alienation, what to do when parenting styles and rules differ across homes, and how to handle situations where your kids prefer one parent and refuse to visit the other.We also talk about creating emergency plans to keep your children safe—both emotionally and physically. Whether you’re separated, divorced, or just trying to navigate a difficult co-parenting situation, this episode is full of insights to help you create a healthy, stable parenting environment for your kids.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Missed last week’s episode? Don’t worry! We introduced the basics of parallel parenting in Episode 311.Check out Diana Swillinger’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast for more on healing and emotional growth. I recommend episodes like “Staying Out of Family Drama.” and “Accepting What Is.”Check out Diana’s website.Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.You might also be interested in listening to Episode 233. In this episode, Jessica Nagy shares practical techniques for helping your kids regulate their emotions and build resilience. Learn how to support your children, co-regulate alongside them, and model healing so they can thrive despite the challenges of having a harmful parent.Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 years she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

In today’s episode, we’re diving into the topic of parallel parenting—what it means, why it matters, and how it can empower you as a mother to create a home filled with love and stability, even when co-parenting feels like a battlefield.We explore how to rise above emotional manipulation, operate from a place of peace and truth, and model resilience for your children. Whether you’re navigating parallel parenting or seeking emotional clarity, this episode is full of practical wisdom and hope.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Love Diana? We have another episode with her here: The Importance of Empathy for Yourself.Check out Diana’s website.Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.Are you in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationship? You might want to also listen to this episode: Are You Married to a Quiet Covert Abuser with a Hidden Lifestyle?Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

Trust is complicated—especially after experiencing disappointment or hurt. Is it possible to fully trust anyone? What does it take to build trust, and where should it start? In this episode, we explore these questions, challenge common assumptions about trust, and share a fresh perspective on building stronger, healthier relationships.You won’t want to miss this episode—it might just change the way you think about trust forever.Would you like to be part of my live mentorship program, Flying Higher? Head over HERE to learn more! 

What if my abusive husband has mental health issues? Drawing on listener input, I tackle the complexities of abuse intertwined with mental health diagnoses such as bipolar disorder, ADHD, anxiety, and depression. I want to help you navigate the tricky waters of understanding biblical interpretations around staying in abusive relationships “in sickness and in health.” This episode is a lifeline for women seeking clarity and peace while healing and growing within difficult circumstances.What You’ll Learn in This Episode:Why anger and critical thinking are normal, healthy responses to injustice.How to unhook from shaming tactics used by abusers and others.The importance of stewarding your own mental, physical, and spiritual health.A biblical perspective on “in sickness and in health” in the context of abusive relationships.Why it’s not helpful to focus on parsing out mental illness vs. abuse in relationships.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

I'm watching my babies go from being children to being young men, and I gotta be honest, it's making me sadder than I've been in a long time. In this Flying Higher moment I'll share a new thought I had this morning as I watched my 14-year-old in the kitchen. A thought that helped create a deeper shift within me from sadness to joy. Maybe it will help you as much as it helped me. Need a mentor this year? Go to joinflyinghigher.com to learn more!

Today I visit with Diana Swillinger, a life coach and fellow advocate for personal growth and healing. Together, we explore the profound role of empathy—not just for others but for yourself—in overcoming life’s challenges and moving forward.Key Topics Covered: The role of empathy in healingPersonal responsibility vs. victim-blamingThe difference between needing validation and needing empowermentThe importance of challenging our deeply rooted beliefsA powerful tool for growthBuilding a life aligned with the heart of GodRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Love Diana? Listen to Episode 256 of the Flying Free Podcast to get more of her!Check out Diana’s website.Follow Diana’s podcast, The Renew Your Mind Podcast. Some of her best episodes include “Staying Out of Family Drama,” “Have To Vs. Choose To,” “When People Are Wrong About You,” “When People Are Right About You,” and “Accepting What Is.”Follow Diana on Facebook and Instagram.Listen to the episode on victim blaming that I mentioned in today’s show. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Diana Swillinger is a life and business coach, host of The Renew Your Mind Podcast, and founder of the Renew Your Mind Institute Coach Training. After decades of trying please God, be a good person and do the right thing, she ended up exhausted and discouraged. Desperate for a solution, Diana went back to school, joined personal development programs, and more, then took what she learned and created mind renewal tools that let her love life in every situation no matter what comes her way. Over the past 5 year she has empowered thousands of women with those same tools to heal themselves, get back to who God created them to be, and build a life they love.

This week's Flying Higher moment introduces a simple exercise that will help you discover core beliefs that are keeping you stuck. You'll also learn how to quickly create a shift in your body that will give you just enough energy to regain some power and control in your life. It's a powerful exercise to try right at the beginning of 2025! Links mentioned:Try Flying Free one week for one dollar now through January 5, 2025 - Click HEREFlying FreeFlying Higher

In today’s episode, I reflect on the incredible transformations that can happen in just one year. (That’s not a very long time, when you think about it! I feel like every January, I blink, and it’s December!)Through powerful testimonials from Christian women, I highlight the courage, growth, and healing that come in just one year of taking intentional steps to break free from abuse, rebuild a life of freedom, and pursue self-development.Discover how these women overcame fear, anxiety, and self-doubt to embrace healing, reclaim their identities, and create lives full of purpose and joy. Whether you’re navigating the complexities of divorce, overcoming spiritual abuse, or simply seeking personal growth, this episode will encourage you to imagine your own transformation in the coming year.What You’ll Hear in This Episode:Heartfelt stories of resilience and transformation from Christian women just like you.Reflections on recognizing abuse, setting boundaries, and finding freedom.Insights into rebuilding relationships with God, children, and oneself after abuse.An invitation to intentionally plan for growth and healing in 2025 Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Grab your own butterfly planner for 2025 (and consider joining us in Flying Higher if you want to go through the Wings to Soar planning workshop with me in January 2025!)Listen to the episode mentioned in today’s show, Episode 197, about all of our different parts and how they interact on our bus!Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

Do you ever wonder if you're measuring up to God's standard? If you're good enough to win God's attention and help? If you've done enough to make your life really matter?If you're looking for a little hope, joy, and maybe even a restored connection to God’s original design for humanity, I invite you to listen in to today's Flying Higher moment and embrace the possibility of a deeper faith journey rooted in love instead of manipulation and shame.Resources mentioned: Flying HigherThe Mirror Bible

Hi friends, and Merry Christmas! I hope this special day brings moments of peace and reflection, wherever you are and whatever you’re doing. In this solo episode, I reflect on the powerful connection between scent, memory, and emotion—especially during the holiday season. I’ll share personal stories, including my years as a soap maker, and how the fragrances of Christmas invite us to reflect on our own environments and experiences.We’ll explore what it means to find hope and healing in unexpected circumstances and how the true spirit of Christmas can create a lasting fragrance of love, even in challenging seasons.What You'll Learn in This Episode:How our senses connect to our memories and emotions.Why we can grow numb to unhealthy environments.A reflection on religious attitudes and how they impact others,The hope and beauty found in embracing life as it is, not as we expected.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote a book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. (The Kindle version is only $2.99 now through the end of the year!)My book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. (Again - the Kindle version is only $2.99 now through the end of the year!)Flying Free is our online community educating and supporting Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip you through this program.Flying Higher is my live mentorship program for any Christian woman interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

In this episode, we explore what it truly means to "fly higher" in life, even when weighed down by challenges and pain. Through a story and metaphor, you'll learn how letting go of control and embracing internal freedom can transform your darkest moments. Resource mentioned:Flying Higher

In today’s reflective episode, I share insights from my ongoing recovery following a recent car accident that left me with a broken wrist. I want to draw some powerful parallels for you between my physical therapy journey and the emotional and spiritual healing journeys faced by survivors of abuse.Key Topics Covered:The reality of physical therapy (hint - it’s not a walk in the park) The role of support systemsEmbracing pain for growthHealing through alignment with your programmingThe power of music to healRead the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out the Flying Free playlist on Spotify! Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for Christian women interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

"If I could give you 10x what I paid to join Flying Higher it wouldn't even scrape the true value of the deep level of understanding you have for being exactly where I am right now and how grateful I am that you teach us without holding back." Flying Higher ButterflyResources mentioned:The Butterfly PlannerThe Flying Free Website (to hop on my mailing list!)Flying FreeFlying Higher

In this deeply insightful episode, I sit down with Dr. Emma Katz to discuss the phenomenon of coercively controlling fathers sabotaging mothers' relationships with their children. Dr. Katz introduces the term “child and mother sabotage” (CAMS) to replace the often co-opted term “parental alienation,” highlighting its roots in coercive control and its frequent targeting of mothers.Dr. Katz explains how societal sexism plays a critical role in these dynamics, amplifying the harm done to mothers and perpetuating harmful stereotypes. She also touches on the challenges survivors face in escaping abuse and emphasizes the strength and resilience it takes to rebuild after experiencing coercive control.Key Topics Discussed:CAMS Explained: Why “child and mother sabotage” is a more accurate and protective term than “parental alienation.”The Role of Societal Bias: How sexist stereotypes are weaponized against mothers in cases of coercive control.Global Gender Bias: Findings from UN research that show the pervasive bias against women worldwide.Survivor Recognition: Why victims of coercive control deserve societal recognition akin to war heroes.Practical Guidance: How survivors can use CAMS terminology in legal and advocacy settings.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Read Dr. Katz’s book, Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives.Read the article that Dr. Katz quoted from in today’s interview. Check out Dr. Katz’s Substack and connect with her on Twitter, Instagram, LinkedIn, and Facebook. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for Christian women interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Dr. Emma Katz is a researcher in domestic violence and coercive control, whose work has helped shape legislation and professional practice globally. Her book, Coercive Control in Children's and Mothers' Lives (Oxford University Press), is widely acclaimed. Emma also brings her research to the public in an accessible and influential way on her platform "Decoding Coercive Control with Dr. Emma Katz", which is read by 10,000s of people in more than 90 countries around the world. Emma's research has illuminated children's experiences of coercive control, which had previously remained largely invisible. She argues that children are affected by many forms of abuse inherent to coercive control, including the breaking down of close relationships with loved ones, deprivation of resources, constrained behavior and isolation from the outside world. Her research has been described as "pioneering work" that "will change how we understand and respond to children’s experience of domestic abuse.”

What is Christmas Magic? Do you feel like you're missing out? Here's an idea that might help you have the most magical Christmas of your entire life this year, and your circumstances don't even have to change. Resources mentioned:Podcast episodes and articles related to holiday challenges HERE.Flying Free (for Christian women stuck in emotionally and spiritually abusive relationships, families of origin, or religious communities)Flying Higher (for Christian women ready to move forward from abuse into their own personal metamorphosis adventure)

In this personal and anecdotal episode, I reflect on a recent car accident that changed my perspective on pain, resilience, and staying present. Drawing from my own experience of navigating physical injury, emotional turmoil, and life's unexpected disruptions, I want to share some valuable lessons on accepting pain and choosing who we want to be in the midst of it.Key TakeawaysPain is a Universal Experience: Everyone faces pain in various forms. Adjusting expectations helps to navigate life’s inevitable challenges.Choosing Who to Be in Pain: While we can't control painful circumstances, we can choose our response and who we want to become in those moments.Faith and Resilience: God is present in our suffering, showing us how to lean into pain and live authentically.The Value of Lament: Acknowledging and naming our losses is essential. Lamenting is not about toxic positivity but about truthfully addressing the pain while moving forward.Staying Present: Focusing on the current moment can alleviate overwhelm and help manage pain one step at a time.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out the books I mentioned: Man’s Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl and The Hiding Place by Corrie Ten Boom. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for Christian women interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. 

If you've ever wondered "is my child an abuser?" you'll want to listen to this Flying Higher moment.Learn more:Flying FreeFlying Higher

In today’s episode, I interview Natalie Deering, an Internal Family Systems (IFS) therapist and host of That Wellness Podcast. Together, we explore practical and spiritual approaches to anxiety, offering tools to transform anxiety from an adversary into an ally. We discuss personal experiences, explain key IFS concepts like "trailheads," and share exercises to regulate the nervous system and foster self-compassion.Key Topics Discussed:Understanding anxiety as a trailhead (find out what a trailhead is in IFS too!)Practical self-regulation tools.The role of fear in anxiety.Spiritual integration.Everyday self-embodiment practices (SEEs).Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Connect with Natalie on her website and on Instagram.Listen to Natalie’s podcast, That Wellness Podcast.Check out the books Natalie mentioned, “Why Zebras Don't Get Ulcers” and “Fuel Your Brain, Not Your Anxiety: Stop the Cycle of Worry, Fatigue, and Sugar Cravings with Simple Protein-Rich Foods.” Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir using IFS about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for Christian women interested in 10Xing their self-development progress. Natalie Deering is a licensed mental health therapist and IFS level 2 practitioner who specializes in using Internal Family Systems therapy to help people get to know their authentic selves and heal the parts of them that are stuck in the past. Natalie hosts That Wellness Podcast, a podcast that provides interesting IFS-related interviews and meditations for people who are doing healing work on their inner parts using IFS. 

Introducing Flying Higher Moments: A short little weekly insight into topics that are important to you. Today we talk about the parts of us that want to hang onto things in case we might need them AND the parts of us who think that's dumb. Let's talk about decluttering! Resources mentioned:All the Scary Little GodsFlying FreeFlying Higher

The link to register for this week’s FREE Q&A with the founder of Aimee Says, Anne Wintemute, is HERE! This Q&A will take place on Saturday, November 23 at 11:00 am Central Time. Again, you can register for this event on Zoom HERE.In this compelling episode, Natalie Hoffman talks with Anne Wintemute, founder of Aimee Says, an innovative AI tool designed to support abuse survivors. Natalie and Anne explore how Aimee Says provides both immediate, compassionate assistance and long-term documentation capabilities for those navigating abusive situations. Anne shares the tool’s features, including its free and paid versions, and emphasizes its privacy and security safeguards. Together, they illustrate how Aimee Says can be an empowering companion for survivors, particularly those involved in legal matters like custody cases.Key Points:Anne’s personal motivation for creating an AI tool focused on empowering abuse survivors.The tool’s core purpose of providing survivors with a private, supportive, and easily accessible resource.The features of both free and paid accounts.AI as a transformative tool in abuse advocacy.Practical use case examples.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out Aimee Says for free today. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Anne Wintemute is the Co-Founder and CEO of Aimee Says, the AI companion for victims and survivors of domestic violence.  She is a fierce champion for the rights of survivors and children, and systems that hold perpetrators accountable. Prior to working with survivors, Anne founded and directed an elementary school that became a model for micro-schools across the United States. In her spare time, she enjoys urban homesteading with her partner and their blended family in Denver, Colorado.

In this episode, I interview Dr. Stephanie Holmes to explore the unique challenges and dynamics within neurodiverse marriages. We talk about how Autism interacts with faith, how religion plays into neurodiversity, the difference between abusers and neurodiverse individuals, and how neurodiverse couples can navigate their relationships more effectively. Dr. Holmes shares insights from her extensive experience working with these couples.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Check out Stephanie’s Autism Spectrum Resources for Marriage & Family as well as the International Association of NeuroDiverse Christian Marriage. Go listen to Stephanie’s podcast, NeuroDiverse Christian Couples.Find Stephanie on YouTube.Pre-order Stephanie’s book, Uniquely Us.Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you.Dr. Stephanie C. Holmes is an ordained minister, author, autism researcher, speaker, and certified autism specialist. She is the owner and founder of Autism Spectrum Resources for Marriage & Family, LLC, and she and her husband, Dan, are co-founders of The International Association of NeuroDiverse Christian Marriage, LLC, and the podcast NeuroDiverse Christian Couples.  

We are celebrating 300 episodes of the Flying Free podcast by looking at where this podcast started, what has been accomplished since then, and where we are heading in the future! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

In today’s episode, I answer a listener's question about co-parenting with an abusive ex and challenge the idea of "working together" with abusers. You’ll learn the importance of shifting the focus away from the abuser and toward personal healing and growth.Key Takeaways:Stop investing emotional energy into trying to "fix" or "work with" an abusive person. It's a cycle that leads nowhere.Redefine what it means to be a "father"—biological ties do not make someone a healthy or safe parent.Avoid gaslighting your children by pretending their experiences with their abusive parent are fun or normal.It is impossible to thrive while working with someone who thrives on control and abuse. The focus should be on healing yourself and your children.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Episodes mentioned with Bob Hamp: Episode 1, Episode 76, Episode 277, and Episode 297.Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. 

In this episode, Natalie interviews guest Anne Blythe, a leader in the Betrayal Trauma Recovery community. Together, they discuss the profound impact of sharing survivor stories, how lived experience can be just as valuable as formal expertise, and the damaging effects of sexual coercion in abusive relationships. Anne also sheds light on critical issues like manipulation, trauma, and reclaiming safety.Some Key Takeaways: Sexual Coercion and Abuse: Anne emphasizes how sexual coercion is often a hidden form of abuse within relationships. Many women face manipulation and pressure regarding sexual behaviors, which is often downplayed or ignored by their abusers, adding layers of trauma.Removing Shame from the Healing Process: Survivors often feel isolated or ashamed of their experiences, but through sharing their stories and seeking help, they can shed this burden.Prioritizing Safety Over Confrontation: Directly confronting an abuser often leads to further manipulation. Instead, focusing on safety and gathering support is a crucial first step in the healing process.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Listen to Anne’s podcast, Betrayal Trauma Recovery, on your favorite podcast listening app. Read Anne’s book, Trauma Mama Husband Drama.Check out Anne’s Meditation, Living Free, and Message workshops.Connect with Anne on Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. If you’ve found porn on your husband’s phone, you can get a simple PDF HERE about what to do next.Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Anne is the Producer & Host of The BTR.ORG podcast and the author of Trauma Mama Husband Drama. She’s also the creator of: The BTR.ORG Meditation, Living Free, and Message Workshops. After years of attempting to stop her husband’s pornography use and “anger issues,” she turned her attention to establishing emotional and psychological safety for herself and her three children. As she learns in real-time, Anne shares her journey to help women safely and effectively separate themselves from their husbands’ (or exes’) emotional & psychological abuse and sexual coercion in order to establish peace in their homes. You can sign up to get group sessions with the coaches at BTR.ORG HERE.

In today’s episode, I have a powerful and insightful discussion with guest speaker Bob Hamp as part of a live Q&A we did with members of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope about the complexities of emotions, particularly anger, and the challenges faced by those in emotionally abusive relationships. Here’s a summary of the key points and concepts:1. Understanding Emotions:Emotions as Drivers: Emotions are energy in motion that propel us forward and should be embraced rather than repressed.Indicators of Inner States: Emotions serve as indicators (like a dashboard) that reveal our internal states and beliefs, particularly anger, which signals that a boundary has been crossed.Anger as a Response: Anger can be a protective response to repeated boundary violations, masking deeper emotions such as pain or fear.2. The Need for Validation:Craving Validation: After experiencing emotional abuse, individuals often seek external validation to affirm their feelings and experiences due to a distorted self-image created by the abuser.Living in a House of Mirrors: Emotional abusers create an environment where one’s self-perception is constantly challenged and distorted, leading to confusion and self-doubt.Research on Healing: Studies show that validation from others can help regulate the nervous system and facilitate healing for trauma survivors.3. Mutual Abuse vs. Conflictual Enmeshment:Mutual Abuse: This term suggests that both parties are equally culpable, but in abusive dynamics, there’s often a power differential where one partner exerts control over the other.Conflictual Enmeshment: This involves two people blaming each other for their issues without one holding more power over the other. The dynamics can feel like mutual blame, but there's usually a more dominant party in emotionally abusive situations.4. Setting Boundaries:Empowerment Through Boundaries: Establishing personal boundaries is essential. Boundaries involve controlling one’s response to others rather than attempting to control others' behaviors.Responses to Boundaries: Abusers often react negatively to boundaries, framing them as controlling behaviors. Recognizing this is crucial in identifying an abusive dynamic.5. Independence and Self-Validation:Moving Towards Independence: The journey from dependence to independence is critical for emotional and relational health. The goal is to validate oneself rather than rely on others for validation.Finding Self-Worth: Ultimately, the most empowering position is to own your self-worth, which frees you from the need for external validation and allows for healthier relationships.6. Practical Steps Forward:Healing Courses: Engaging in resources like courses focused on healing relationships with oneself can aid in developing self-validation and independence. We have a course called “Healing Your Relationship with Yourself” inside of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope. Join today to get access to that course as well as many others! Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Connect with Bob on Facebook and Twitter, and take a look at his program, Think Differently Academy.Check out Bob’s “Think Differently” book series.Listen to more episodes of the Flying Free Podcast that we’ve done with Bob: Episode 1, Episode 76, and  Episode 277, Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Bob Hamp is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist as well as an author and teacher. His life message has always been about freedom and healing. He and his wife, Polly, are the founders of Think Differently Academy, an online community for training, personal growth and healing. He and Polly have six kids and six grandkids with one more on the way.

Understanding and Overcoming Emotional Abuse: A Journey to Personal FreedomIn this episode of the Flying Free Podcast, Natalie reflects on the power of transformation and shares profound insights from both the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community and the personal stories of women who are seeking freedom from abusive relationships. With heartfelt testimonials and a listener’s deeply personal question about navigating a difficult separation, this episode delves into the complexities of emotional abuse and the path to self-discovery.The Power of Transformation: Real-Life Experiences from the Flying Free KaleidoscopeNatalie begins the episode by reading reviews from members of the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community—a safe space for Christian women seeking healing and growth. These women share how the program has impacted their lives in profound ways:"Two months in this program has changed my life. My relationship with myself and the way I parent my children has changed dramatically. I'm addicted to the coaching sessions.""Your programs are incredible. I talk about them every chance I get. They have literally changed my life. Hugs.""There are so many resources in this program. It is mind-blowing.""I am blown away. I joined a few months ago, and every course I take, I listen to three to five times. Each lesson gets better and better."These testimonials emphasize the depth of support available to women within the Flying Free Kaleidoscope program. Natalie likens the community to a “kaleidoscope of butterflies,” a metaphor representing the beauty and strength of women transforming their minds—and ultimately their lives—through support, coaching, and faith.A Listener’s Question: Navigating Separation and Emotional AbuseNatalie addresses a question from a listener who is struggling to understand her husband's childlike behavior and lack of engagement during their separation. The listener shares her journey of enduring seventeen years of anxiety, feeling inadequate in her marriage, and facing a spouse who refuses to communicate or take responsibility.The listener asks three key questions:Why is my husband choosing childlike behavior and ignoring me and our separation?How do I work with him to move forward?I want insight into this type of man.The Alligator Metaphor: Focusing on What You Can ControlIn response, Natalie draws a vivid analogy, comparing an abusive relationship to falling into a swamp with alligators. She explains that focusing on why the alligator behaves the way it does is futile. Instead, the priority should be on getting out of the swamp. Similarly, understanding the abuser’s mindset isn’t the key to healing. Rather, the focus should be on what you can control—your own decisions, actions, and growth.“We can’t control other people. Our challenge is not to understand the psyche of an abuser. Our challenge is to gain self-awareness and understanding around our own psyche and what is driving our beliefs and behaviors. This is where 100% of our opportunity lies.”Reframing the QuestionsInstead of asking why her husband behaves in a certain way, Natalie encourages the listener to shift her focus. She offers three thought-provoking reframes for the listener’s questions:Why is my husband choosing childlike behavior?Reframe: Why am I choosing to revolve my life around this other adult, meanwhile ignoring my own sanity and health?How do I work with him to move forward?Reframe: How do I work with myself to move forward? You can’t force someone else to change, but you can focus on your own path to healing and freedom.I want insight into this type of man.Reframe: I want insight into my own mind and beliefs so that I can evolve into the next version of who I was created to be.Natalie emphasizes that healing comes from within, not from trying to understand or change the abuser. She explains how many women are conditioned to prioritize the needs and feelings of others, often at their own expense. But true freedom comes when you take control of your own life, set boundaries, and focus on your own growth.The Mission of Flying Free: Transforming Minds to Transform LivesNatalie ends the episode by reminding listeners of the mission of Flying Free—to help Christian women find freedom, truth, and love in their lives. The Flying Free Kaleidoscope community offers resources, coaching, and support to help women on their journey toward healing and wholeness.For those who are ready to take the next step, Natalie invites listeners to join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community, where they’ll find a network of support, guidance, and hope.Join the Flying Free Kaleidoscope CommunityIf you’re looking for a place to belong and grow, the Flying Free Kaleidoscope community might be the support system you’ve been searching for. Visit joinflyingfree.com to learn more about how you can start your journey toward healing today.Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. 

Aimee Byrd, a well-loved guest of the Flying Free Podcast, is back again to tell us the story behind her newest book, The Hope in Our Scars. It’s not a pretty present of a book, wrapped in neat paper and topped with a bow. It’s real, it’s raw, and it’s full of beauty, and that’s exactly what this conversation is as well. Aimee went through some unfathomable spiritual abuse and says, “That's what led me to write The Hope in Our Scars because I did find Christ intimately present with me through this.” We hope you’ll be able to find hope and Christ in this conversation, too. Read the show notes and/or ask Natalie a question hereRelated Resources:You can find Aimee on X, Threads, and Facebook. Go listen to my first interview with Aimee, “We Need a Sexual Reformation in the Church.” I highly encourage you to check out Aimee's incredible books, including The Hope in Our Scars, The Sexual Reformation, Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, Why Can’t We Be Friends?, No Little Women, Theological Fitness, and Housewife Theologian.My newest book, All the Scary Little Gods, is a spiritual memoir about healing from religious trauma and toxic programming. Are you wondering what is happening inside your own painful and confusing marriage? I wrote another book just for you called Is It Me? Making Sense of Your Confusing Marriage: A Christian Woman’s Guide to Hidden Emotional and Spiritual Abuse. Flying Free is my online membership program designed for Christian women in emotionally abusive marriages. Whether you want to stay in your marriage or leave, we want to equip and support you through this program.Flying Higher is my online membership program for divorced Christian women. Come rebuild your life after divorce with women just like you. Aimee Byrd is a former coffee cafe owner who now uses her conversational barista skills as a writer and speaker. Her latest books blend contemplative thought with biblical theology. Aimee is the author of several books including The Hope in Our Scars, The Sexual Reformation, Recovering from Biblical Manhood and Womanhood, Why Can’t We Be Friends?, No Little Women, Theological Fitness, and Housewife Theologian. Looking for the beauty and wonder in theology—learning about God—and spiritual formation, Aimee writes about the things she hoped to talk about in church. In this quest, she’s found many others who’ve been disillusioned by the church but are still looking for what’s real, beautiful, true, and good. It’s often not where we think it is.