For The Love With Jen Hatmaker Podcast

Description: As a luminary in contemporary literature, Elizabeth Gilbert’s writing has shaped the zeitgeist through adventure, spiritual exploration, creativity, and what it means to live a life of integrity. Her work consistently resonates with a global audience, prompting introspection and inspiring personal journeys of self-discovery. In this episode, Elizabeth Gilbert delves into the intricate narratives woven within her latest book, All the Way to the River: Love, Loss, and Liberation.  Liz traces the evolving nature of her bond with Rayya Elias, illustrating how the relationship transitioned from a cherished best friend to a trusted neighbor, then blossomed into a profound creative muse, and ultimately became a romantic partner—her "person."  This deeply significant relationship unfolded against the harrowing backdrop of Rayya’s terminal pancreatic cancer diagnosis and her courageous, yet often arduous, battle with addiction.  In a conversation full of heart and unabashed vulnerability, Liz reflects on her own struggles with people-pleasing, addiction, and finding emotional and spiritual sobriety, discussing what it looks like to take accountability for one's own well-being to write a life story that ends with dignity. Thought-provoking Quotes: “If you're very lucky, you might just meet one person in your life who you can go all the way to the river with.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “There's not a jury in the world who wouldn’t have agreed that I had every right to see myself as a victim in that story but I still didn't see my role in the insanity. It took me years of grieving and anger and processing to see it.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “There is no such thing as a relationship between an incredibly healthy person and an incredibly dysfunctional person. There's an incredibly dysfunctional person and a person who is very far from themselves engaging in that relationship with that incredibly dysfunctional person.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “I’ve used people as though they are drugs, to shore up my incredibly gaping insecurity wound. So I'm going to either use someone as a sedative, somebody who makes me feel really safe, or I'm going to go find somebody to use as a speed ball of excitement and danger, somebody who's very bad for me. I would just try to find the person who could make my levels feel right.” – Elizabeth Gilbert “Like many humans, I am extremely faulty at knowing what's going to make me happy.. I anticipate that something will make me happy and it almost kills me.” – Elizabeth Gilbert Emotional sobriety, for me, is taking complete accountability for my own nervous system and not ever accusing anybody of disrupting it. A simple thing that I've learned to say is not ‘You need to stop behaving the way that you're behaving’, but ‘I love you and I need to go.’” – Elizabeth Gilbert To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In this episode, we open the mic to our incredible podcast community, spotlighting the diverse feedback and personal stories from our listeners that have shaped our discussions. Hear firsthand accounts of the impact our guests and their insights have had. Listeners Melinda, Tracy, Joanna, Erin, Kelly, Laura, and Sarah share a wide range of experiences: navigating major life changes like empty-nesting, building new friendships, wrestling with evolving faith, and even becoming an unwilling country music convert. We also dive into some humorous reflections about Travis and TayTay, rest stop kittens, and open mic nights. Join us as we celebrate the voices that make our podcast a vibrant and dynamic space for conversation and connection. Tune in and be part of the dialogue. Thought-provoking Quotes: “Let the top rung of the ladder be your sincere convictions. That's the one to keep sturdy, clear, and visible, and hold that one as tight as you can.” – Jen Hatmaker “Anchor your feet into the ground and stand in this storm. Let it rage. Weather it, weather your own discomfort, weather everybody else's discomfort and whatever loss or change comes along with it, because it will end, and there will come a day when it is not that chaotic and what you will be left with is your integrity and that is enough.” – Jen Hatmaker “Women are capable of getting through the hardest things.  Maybe it’s a trope because it’s true. Maybe the women who are betrayed grieve and recover and rebuild because that's what women do. So maybe it's not such a surprise that we can flourish.” – Amy Hardin “I’m just convinced, this is the time for us to reinvent. Look how awesome we are.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce engagement post - https://www.instagram.com/p/DN02niAXMM-/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=MTQ4YWwzOGcycWJlcA== [ENCORE] When the Truth Goes Viral: The Cost (and Benefit) of Living Honestly with Jonathan Merritt - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/encore-when-the-truth-goes-viral-the-cost-and-benefit-of-living-honestly-with-jonathan-merritt/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3VnMb0k The Interview: Jen Hatmaker’s Life Exploded in Middle Age. So She Built a Better One. – https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/23/magazine/jen-hatmaker-interview.html Shiny, Happy People - https://tv.apple.com/us/show/shiny-happy-people/umc.cmc.68y3j8gmhyj647n1j8hgscd3p No Filter, Just The Mirror: Trisha Yearwood Reflects On New Seasons and New Ambitions - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/no-filter-just-the-mirror-trisha-yearwood-reflects-on-new-seasons-and-new-ambitions/ Trisha Yearwood - The Mirror – https://trishayearwood.lnk.to/TheMirror Awake Book Tour with guest moderator Trisha Yearwood - Austin, TX - https://www.eventbrite.com/e/bookpeople-presents-jen-hatmaker-awake-tickets-1388635428949?aff=oddtdtcreator I Choose Me: Jennie Garth on Midlife, Reinvention & Owning Your Next Chapter - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/i-choose-me-jennie-garth-on-midlife-reinvention-owning-your-next-chapter/ Gretchen Rubin - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Our Epidemic of Loneliness and Isolation | The U.S. Surgeon General’s Advisory on the  Healing Effects of Social Connection and Community, 2023 - https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/surgeon-general-social-connection-advisory.pdf Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen has a discussion with her longtime friend, brilliant thought-leader and activist, Austin Channing Brown. You probably know Austin from her viral first book, I’m Still Here: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness, which flew off shelves in 2020 following the murder of George Floyd, as we were witnessing worldwide protests, calls for police reform, and a radical change to our racial justice systems. Countless people trusted Austin to help them unpack and understand the racial reckoning going on in our country at that time. Now, Austin is releasing a new project that shares some of her hard-fought learnings gained since that tumultuous time. Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession is a love letter to the black women, like Austin herself, who are exhausted from being everything to everyone but themselves. Across essays titled “I Love Myself When I Am Laughing,” “When I Am Awkward,” “When I Am Failing,” and more, Austin celebrates the fullness of her humanity. Each chapter becomes a mirror, asking women—especially Black women—to consider where they’ve given themselves away and what it would mean to live with self-possession instead. Highlights from this conversation include: What it means to Austin to be “full of herself”—a phrase she reclaimed as an act of resistance, dignity, and spiritual integrity What happens in our bodies when we operate out of alignment with ourselves What it means to be a Black woman striving to live fully in a world that often demands her silence, her labor, and her conformity And the inspirational, life-saving advice that Austin received from activist, Tarana Burke This is such a good conversation starter and one to be shared, for sure. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I'm sick of white people telling me I have to remain in unhealthy workplaces, unhealthy worship spaces, unhealthy towns in order to save them. Everywhere I go, I'm told I should sacrifice myself for the possibility of whiteness getting its shit together.” – Austin Channing Brown “I grew up in an era that we called racial reconciliation. ‘Racial justice’ was too hard. It implied that there were two people who had both done wrong and needed to come together. And the way that was often phrased for people of color was that we needed to teach, we needed to offer grace, we needed to bend over backwards, we needed to touch hearts and minds, endless patience, we needed to watch our tone, we needed to be open and inviting. It was all about what we needed to do.” – Austin Channing Brown “There is an integrity, accountability, and power that comes with being full of myself. And there is a lack of needing to please anybody else. Because I'm full of me.” – Austin Channing Brown Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Full of Myself: Black Womanhood and the Journey to Self-Possession by Austin Channing Brown - https://amzn.to/4k0SQI1 I'm Still Here: Reese's Book Club: Black Dignity in a World Made for Whiteness by Austin Channing Brown - https://amzn.to/4jElqyn Nikki Giovanni, poet - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poets/nikki-giovanni  Zora Neale Hurston - https://www.zoranealehurston.com/ I Love Myself When I Am Laughing And Then Again When I Am Looking Mean & Impressive by Zora Neale Hurston - https://amzn.to/3FVpGvA Tarana Burke - https://www.taranaburke.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://austinchanning.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/austinchanning/ Twitter - https://x.com/austinchanning Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/austinchanningbrown Substack - https://substack.com/@austinchanning Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s conversation might have you clutching your pearls and purity rings. Jen and Amy sit down with Dr. Celeste Holbrook—sexologist, educator, and author of Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex After Purity Culture—for the candid, hilarious, and healing “sex talk” you never had but always deserved. From busting purity culture myths to unpacking women’s complicated relationship with pleasure, Dr. Holbrook shares the four “inner missionaries” that shape our approach to sex, why sexual shame runs so deep, and how to reclaim intimacy as the joyful gift it was always meant to be. Highlights include:  Unpacking women' s complicated relationship with pleasure Dr. Holbrook prescribes the best sexy-time soundtrack Review of the four inner missionaries (the Analyst, the Assassin, the Healer, and the Explorer) – the archetypes that define our individual approach to sex  Celeste reveals a surprising fact that both golf carts and ejaculate have in common How the combination of purity culture, patriarchy and capitalism are the oppression cocktail for sex And the conversation veers off course when the trio discusses an exercise that uses Jason Mamoa to evaluate their sexual ethics Thought-provoking Quotes: “When I say sex education saved my relationship, I am not being bombastic. It really did help me find myself.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We view sex through a patriarchal lens. Media tells us how to feel about sex and what is sexy. So what is sexy has been historically white, thin, able-bodied, young… And the way that we view ourselves then says, well, what if I'm not all of those things? Am I still sexy? Is my body still OK?” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “The work for us, especially as women, is to anchor into our body to experience sensuality in order to experience sex instead of perform sex.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook “We need to be inside the system in order to take down the system.” – Dr. Celeste Holbrook Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Jen Hatmake’s Sex MeCourse: SexEd For the Rest of Us - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Pantsuit Politics - https://www.instagram.com/pantsuitpolitics/ Missionary Position: A Slightly Irreverent Guide to Sex after Purity Culture by Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://amzn.to/46StjOa For the Love of Men by Liz Plank – https://amzn.to/41JtRSS  Say Yes to Pleasure: How to Talk About Sex and Rekindle Intimacy in Midlife with Vanessa Marin – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/say-yes-to-pleasure-how-to-talk-about-sex-and-rekindle-intimacy-in-midlife-with-vanessa-marin/ A Tribe Called Quest – https://atribecalledquest.com/blogs/discography The Pleasure Club - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/https/thepleasureclub Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drcelesteholbrook/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/DrCelesteHolbrook/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description:  In Part 2 of this episode, we push even deeper — into the personal, the creative, the brave, and the sometimes scary places we go when we dare to  tell the truth. This time, Tyler Merritt has turned the tables on Jen and he’s asking the questions!  We talk about what it’s like to be seen, judged, misunderstood — and still choose honesty. We talk about Awake and the vulnerability involved with retelling the painful and unvarnished parts of your story. We talk about fear. And we talk about the joy we’ve found in the middle of it all. So let’s jump back in. In this second installment: Jen talks about the last time that she felt truly brave and what it felt like to unearth and expose some of the most tender and personal moments of her life in such an honest and examining way Tyler asks Jen who was her best model of kindness at a young age Jen shares the song that is reflecting her current vibe in the world And Tyler asks Jen what she wishes more people understood about her Thought-provoking Quotes: "Our stories, though they may seem new, are the things that change the world." - Jen Hatmaker “What I asked myself when deciding to include or exclude something was, am I going to be proud of this five years from now? So that's five years further down the road. I'm going to be five years more mature, five years more healed, five more years of distance. Will I be proud of what I say five years from now? And I let that be my guide.” – Jen Hatmaker “It's been weird to be at that center of people's judgment for quite a long time now.  I've evolved a lot in the public eye, which is weird for everybody. It's weird for me. It's weird for people to watch. At all points along the way, I can say sincerely, I have really and truly been trying to do my best. I just wish people knew that.” – Jen Hatmaker “My story is not special and I think that's what makes it important. I hope that the readers will see their own story inside of it somewhere in some way on some level and then decide to take from mine what they need for theirs. So I can't wait to find out.” – Jen Hatmaker Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Depoe Bay, Oregon – https://visittheoregoncoast.com/cities/depoe-bay/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/40MYuXs Jen shares the first line from Awake – https://www.instagram.com/reel/DMrDdj4sCaQ/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link&igsh=ZzdzZGdvM3h5Mmd6 This Changes Everything: A Surprisingly Funny Story About Race, Cancer, Faith, and Other Things We Don’t Talk About by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4m135Oj Brené Brown – https://brenebrown.com/ Before You Call The Cops by The Tyler Merritt Project – https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oGu_xGBekpo I Take My Coffee Black: Reflections on Tupac, Musical Theater, Faith, and Being Black in America by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/47by9Gf Luna Sea Fish House in Yachats, Oregon – https://www.lunaseafishhouse.com/ Buy My Own Drinks by Runaway June – https://open.spotify.com/track/40p6WybX0YvcLdMlLja3oL A Door Made for Me by Tyler Merritt – https://amzn.to/4mv4jBd A Long December by Counting Crows - https://open.spotify.com/track/1tjKIXd7DYNklhVSgBxREi Guest’s Links: Website - https://thetylermerrittproject.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/thetylermerrittproject/ Twitter - https://x.com/ttmproject Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/thetylermerrittproject Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCPB48_JfK-VMnYQPTYyMX5Q Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: What happens when the faith you were raised with no longer fits? Join us as we explore faith deconstruction and what it looks like to hold on to what matters while letting go of harmful narratives. Our guest, Mary Katherine Backstrom, knows this journey well. Once rooted in evangelical certainty, her world began to unravel—her marriage, career, and faith all shaken. In her raw and hilarious memoir, Not That Wheel Jesus, MK shares what it was like to question everything, wrestle with purity culture’s impact, and walk through the grief of lost certainties. As she puts it: “I walked through the rubble, I danced in the fire pits with my friends, and I've emerged into this quiet post-apocalyptic space where I can hear my own voice.” Whether you’re navigating your own faith shift or just curious, this conversation will resonate. And don’t forget—you can leave us your thoughts at jenhatmaker.com/podcast! Thought-provoking Quotes: “Everybody I speak to that's been on a growth journey of any sort—spiritual, emotional, whatever—you get to a point where you realize that confidence comes from not knowing everything and being at peace with what you can't figure out.” – MK Backstrom “It felt like I was looking at my life and feeling  like there's so much loss here, especially my sexuality. My church robbed me of joy. And that's the opposite of what was promised. Once I realized I participated in that behavior, I was able to make amends.” – MK Backstrom  “When I walk into that [church] space, it feels like going into a home where a child experienced abuse. I don't know that that's going to leave my body for a very long time. And it doesn't mean that I'm never gonna go back, but I also listen to myself better now and I'm not going to go somewhere where my body feels like it's on fire.” – MK Backstrom “My body is still responding to everything it's experienced for 40 years in the church. And I'm finally getting to the place where I'm starting to understand what my baseline feels like.” – MK Backstrom “If there is a God worth worshiping and there's a life worth living, those things can stand up to your big questions. No God is so fragile that your human curiosity is going to break this to pieces. No problem is so big in your life that you're not gonna get up and keep moving. There's a lot of freedom after the fear. Trust the process, ask questions.” – MK Backstrom Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Holy Hot Mess: Finding God in the Details of this Weird and Wonderful Life by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/3ZV5GAi Not That Wheel, Jesus!: Stories From a Faith That Went Off-Road in the Best (and Worst) Possible Ways by Mary Katherine Backstrom - https://amzn.to/45KbY9v Rachel Held Evans - https://rachelheldevans.com/ Searching for Sunday: Loving, Leaving, and Finding the Church by Rachel Held Evans - https://amzn.to/4lxKkRY Dallas Willard - https://dwillard.org/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Sex MeCourse - https://shop.jenhatmaker.com/products/sex-101 Dr. Celeste Holbrook - https://www.drcelesteholbrook.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.mkbackstrom.com/ Twitter - https://x.com/mkbackstrom Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MKBackstrom TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@marykatherinebackstrom Substack - https://marykatherinebackstrom.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jen has been a quiet superfan of David Gate ever since discovering one of his poems on Instagram and instantly texting it to six friends. A British-born poet, writer, and visual artist, David explores themes of care, community, and spiritual resilience. Today, he joins Jen and Amy to talk about his latest work, A Rebellion of Care—a powerful blend of essays and poetry rooted in tenderness, authenticity, and resistance. From writing to flour milling and homesteading, David’s life is a living practice of nurturing both self and community with intention. Key highlights from this conversation include:  How radical tenderness can be an act of resistance Why are many people living  radicalized lives without realizing it, and often for things they don't truly care about How homesteading is a rebellion against modern food practices Reimagining masculinity and what it could look like in a better world Building community and friendship as a vital source of joy and support in life How anger and joy are companion emotions The sacredness of everyday practices Thought-provoking Quotes: “I did not want to have an email job and I did not want to be in meetings that could have been emails. I did not want to be on Slack. I just didn't want that to be what I was spending my time doing. I loved caring for people, and I loved creating and writing, and I got to do that within the church world.” – David Gate “It's just very hard not to be cynical about everything and what I found was that I was cynical because I really, really cared. And, because I really, really cared, everything was just so overwhelming, and the easiest way to deal with that was to shut down and be cynical and be snarky. But, I realized that I had to press through and embrace what was behind that cynicism. so I had to really embrace my own earnestness and my own care in the world and concentrate on what I wanted to build rather than what I wanted to tear down.” – David Gate “It’s a constant battle to speak the truth. Even things we all know It can be difficult to say, if it's not something that is normally said, and it's not something that is normally expressed, so you have to fight for that and you have to fight for your experience of the truth. You have to fight for your story. You have to fight for all of that.” – David Gate “I think it's very, very difficult for men to reach for emotional honesty because everything tells you that you're failing if you do that. But it's the most important work right now. And so much of what men are actually looking for in this world, intimacy, a sense of place, a sense of belonging, companionship, adventure, excitement, is on the other side of reaching for that emotional honesty.” – David Gate Resources Mentioned in This Episode: A Rebellion of Care: Poems and Essays by David Gate - https://amzn.to/4jjf87X Good Soil: The Education of an Accidental Farmhand by Jeff Chu - https://amzn.to/3GnS21w Cultivating Belonging and Evolving Faith with Jeff Chu - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/cultivating-belonging-and-evolving-faith-with-jeff-chu/ Sarah Bessey - https://www.sarahbessey.com/ Armando Veve, Illustrator - https://www.instagram.com/armandoveve/ Awake: A Memoir by Jen Hatmaker - https://amzn.to/3YHKgpw Sinners film (2025) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt31193180/ Malaprop's Bookstore, Asheville - https://www.malaprops.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.davidgatepoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/davidgatepoet/ Substack - https://substack.com/@davidgatepoet Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Jennie Garth is best known to Gen-Xers for her iconic role playing Kelly Taylor on the megahit television series Beverly Hills 90210.  Fans of the show may remember Kelly’s pivotal “I Choose Me” episode (airing thirty years ago this past May) when she stood between dreamboats Brandon and Dylan and declared that she was choosing herself.  Jennie shaped an entire era of pop culture, and now, at fifty-two, she is embracing an incredible new chapter of life—one filled with bold conversations about aging, empowerment, self-love, and the beautiful messiness of midlife. Through her thought-provoking “I Choose Me” podcast and a forthcoming memoir of the same name, Jennie is using her platform to champion other women over fifty by challenging outdated narratives around aging and sparking empowering conversations. Today, Jennie, Jen and Amy talk about what choosing yourself looks like on a normal day, and what it means to be graduate beyond our growing family years into a more independent space where a new age of self-discovery is possible because, as Jennie reminds us, choosing “you” isn’t selfish—it’s the most powerful act of self-respect. Thought-provoking Quotes: “It was through my conversations with fans, whether it was on social media. or at autograph events that I kept hearing, ‘I didn't know I could choose me until Kelly Taylor told me it was an option.’” – Jennie Garth “If I had gone to college and lived a normal life, then I would have learned things that I didn't actually end up learning until I was in my forties and fifties. So now I'm just searching like, ‘What did I miss and how can I be better? How can I learn more about myself?’” – Jennie Garth “You look around on social media and you see other people's lives and think, ‘My God, they have it all figured out.’ And I just never felt like that personally.” – Jennie Garth “Loving yourself is a journey and it’s imperative to your wellbeing.” – Jennie Garth “I don’t want to please people by being what they want me to be or fitting into this character's shoes. I love acting and I'll never not love acting. But I had to take the bull by the horns and take control of my life.” – Jennie Garth “Competition amongst women was real. It was just part of the  world I grew up in. I had to be better than the next girl. What a waste of so much precious time and energy. I used to be intimidated by other women's success or knowledge or position. I kick myself for all the years of lost opportunity of that kind of camaraderie and connection with other women. I feel it so strongly now. It's something that can never be quieted again,” – Jennie Garth Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Beverly Hills, 90210 (1990-2000) - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0098749/ Tori Spelling - https://www.instagram.com/p/DKAANczu145/?hl=en I Choose Me Women’s Summit 2025 - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-movement I Choose Me: Chasing Joy, Finding Purpose & Embracing Reinvention by Jennie Garth - https://amzn.to/44d8eMM Me by Jennie Garth QVC Collection - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/me-by-jennie-garth Feeding America - https://www.feedingamerica.org/partners/entertainment-council/jennie-garth American Heart Association - https://www.heart.org/en/health-topics/at-the-heart-of-it-with-nancy-brown/the-power-of-positivity-with-jennie-garth Guest’s Links: Website - https://jenniegarth.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/jenniegarth/ Twitter - https://x.com/jenniegarth Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/jenniegarth TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@officialjenniegarth Podcast - https://jenniegarth.com/pages/i-choose-me-podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde is a leading voice in modern faith leadership and the first woman elected to serve as Bishop of the Episcopal Diocese of Washington, a role she’s held since 2011. While the job isn’t always glamorous, she says, the sacred moments in the public eye matter deeply—and she treats them with care. Bishop Budde gained national attention for boldly speaking out against the Trump administration, including condemning the 2020 photo-op at St. John’s Episcopal Church and, more recently, offering a prayer for LGBTQ+ justice with President Trump and Vice President Vance seated before her. Her calm, courageous leadership has made her one of the most trusted voices in public faith today. In this conversation with Jen, Bishop Budde shares her journey from a small Minnesota congregation to the national stage—and how she finds the courage to speak truth to power and stand with the marginalized, even when the cost is high. Thought-provoking Quotes: “I think, in some ways, vocations choose you as much as you choose them.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “It's not as if the world stopped on January 21st. So much is happening every single day and there are consequences to the decisions being made.” – Mariann Edgar Budde “I wouldn't have chosen the way they're going, but a lot is being dismantled right now and we've got to be there to help rebuild.”  – Mariann Edgar Budde Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Raygun: Bishop Budde Fan Club T-Shirt - https://www.raygunsite.com/products/bishop-budde-fan-club Receiving Jesus: The Way of Love by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/45GO5jh How We Learn to Be Brave: Decisive Moments in Life and Faith by Mariann Edgar Budde - https://amzn.to/4kbZtan Sermon by The Right Rev. Mariann Edgar Budde | Washington National Cathedral, 1.21.25 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwwaEuDeqM8 Love is the Game Changer of Our Faith: Bishop Michael Curry - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-24/love-is-the-game-changer-of-our-faith-bishop-michael-curry/ Goodness Triumphs Through Good People: A Year-End Benediction from Bishop Michael Curry – https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-39/goodness-triumphs-through-good-people-a-year-end-benediction-from-bishop-michael-curry/ Austin Channing Brown - https://austinchanning.com/ Tim Shriver - https://www.timothyshriver.com/ The Dignity Index - https://www.timothyshriver.com/projects/the-dignity-index Jen Hatmaker Traded Religious Rules for Spiritual Practices - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/jen-hatmaker-traded-religious-rules-for-spiritual-practices/id1765227660?i=1000691362907 Building Bridges, Not Walls: Tim Shriver on Dignity that Transcends Disagreements - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/building-bridges-not-walls-tim-shriver-on-dignity-that-transcends-disagreements/ Bryan Stevenson - https://eji.org/bryan-stevenson/ I Believe in the Sun - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mplEEQn5znA&t=112s Guest’s Links: Website - https://edow.org/about/bishop-mariann/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/mariannbudde Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/bishopmariannbudde TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@mariann_edgar_budde_ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Katie Sturino is one of those people who makes you feel instantly braver just by being in the room. With her bold fashion choices, unfiltered honesty, and joyful presence online, the powerhouse founder of Megababe, style influencer, and unapologetic voice for body confidence has inspired so many of us to rethink how we see our bodies and ourselves. Her first book Body Talk, part memoir, part manifesto, focused on the all too important topic of learning to love the skin you’re in. Now, she’s back—and this time, she’s putting her hand to fiction! Of course, we wanted to talk to this multi-hyphenate about what it’s like flexing yet another new muscle. Katie and Jen talk about the inspiration behind Sunny Side Up, a book Jennifer Weiner has called a modern-day Bridget Jones’ Diary (without the toxic self-loathing) and Katie shares what the writing process was like, an experience Katie  equated to being put through a pasta machine. She and Jen also reminisce about when they first met almost a year ago—backstage at an Oprah special and the grueling decisions they grabbed with (as so many women do for such an event)—what to wear.  Thought-provoking Quotes: “I lead with solution. That is the thing that's consistent for me because I love business. I love talking to people about the businesses they wanna start, the businesses that they're running. I like solving problems.” – Katie Sturino “We love turning on a woman online. We love it—everything from Meghan Markle dancing in birthing room and Blake Lively. We just love turning on women. It’s like sport.” Katie Sturino “I don't have the MBA. I feel like most businesses that are dreamed up are done in a Harvard think tank, and I don't have that. So that's another thing that I feel insecure about, because whenever I'm up on panels or in a room full of similar founders, their stories have a really specific ladder and I'm like in my parents’ garage, you know, it's different.” – Katie Sturino “Writing this book was the hardest thing I have ever done. This was awful. I'm gonna say that out loud so that if anyone out there is like, I'm gonna write a book one day—pop that bubble! Pop that bubble! It's not you in a cozy room with a typewriter and a mug. It's like open eyeball surgery while you're awake. It's really hard.” – Katie Sturino Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Making the Shift: A new way to think about weight - https://www.weightwatchers.com/makingtheshift/ Megababe - https://megababebeauty.com/ The Deodorant Jen swears by - https://megababebeauty.com/collections/pits Sunny Side Up: A Novel by Katie Sturino - https://amzn.to/3SLK1qd Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://tressiemc.com/ Using Storytelling to Address Complex Social Issues: Dr. Tressie McMillan Cottom - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-64/using-storytelling-to-address-complex-social-issues-dr-tressie-mcmillan-cottom/ #SupersizeTheLook - https://www.instagram.com/explore/search/keyword/?q=%23supersizethelook Kitty & Vibe: Katie Sturino Swimsuit Collection - https://www.kittyandvibe.com/collections/sunny-side-up Guest’s Links: Website - https://megababebeauty.com/pages/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/katiesturino/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCmlgRDiOCywtaamAc5q-7VQ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@katiesturino Substack - https://katiesturino.substack.com/p/katie-sturino-writer Podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/boob-sweat-with-katie-sturino/id1483683205 Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: With over two decades of experience in the field, Vanessa Marin is on a mission to help people break down shame, talk openly about sex, and create truly intimate relationships. As a a licensed psychotherapist, sex educator, and bestselling author of Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life, which she co-wrote with her husband, Xander, Vanessa brings a candid, humorous, and deeply compassionate voice to a topic that too often stays in the dark Whether your relationship is in a rut, your spark feels a little… dim, or you just want to feel more connected—to your partner and yourself—this one’s for you. Vanessa is going to help us say yes to communication, to connection, and maybe most of all, to pleasure. Some topics we dig into: Why we have knee-jerk reactions to sex rooted in shame Why Vanessa says you should start having sex like a man The myth about the female orgasm The best things for your sex life that have nothing to do with taking off your clothes The difference between spontaneous desire versus responsive desire Thought-provoking Quotes: “Despite not getting a great introduction to sex or intimacy or relationships, I had this intuitive sense that there should be joy with this act. There should be connection and intimacy, and it should be something I should feel excited to explore when the time is right.” – Vanessa Marin “This is literally what I am here on this earth for, is to help people get more comfortable talking about sex, connection, and intimacy.” – Vanessa Marin “A lot of people hear, she's a sex therapist. They must have this incredible sex life. the reality is, we've been through ups and downs, too. ” – Vanessa Marin “We get very little, if no, actual sex education. Most of us are left with movies, and TV, and porn as our only sex education. So it's totally understandable that most of us see these scenes and think, that's what I'm looking for. That's the kind of connection I'm supposed to have with my partner. But, the reality is the way that sex looks on TV and in the movies, that's designed for entertainment. It's designed to look good and be pretty. It's not what sex really looks like in real life.” – Vanessa Marin Research has shown that in male-female relationships, women are carrying the vast majority of the mental load. There is so much that is going through our heads on a daily basis—all this tracking, and preparing, and anticipating, and evaluating, our heads are just constantly going. And when you have so much in your brain, it makes it really hard to make the space for intimacy and desire too.” – Vanessa Marin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Sex Talks: The Five Conversations That Will Transform Your Love Life by Vanessa Marin and Xander Marin - https://amzn.to/43VSwnS The Sex Talks Card Deck and Guidebook: 90 Prompts to Deepen Connection and Spark Intimacy - https://amzn.to/3Hys1xa Vanessa and Xander’s Deeper Monthly Membership - https://buy.vmtherapy.com/deeper Guest’s Links: Website - https://vmtherapy.com/about Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/vanessaandxander/ Twitter - https://x.com/VMTherapy Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/vanessaandxander/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/vanessamarin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@vanessaandxander Pinterest - https://www.pinterest.com/vanessaandxander/_created/ Podcast - https://vmtherapy.com/podcast/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Gretchen Rubin is one of today’s most influential observers of happiness and human nature. In addition to hosting the award-winning podcast Happier with Gretchen Rubin, where she shares practical strategies for building a happier, healthier, more creative life, Gretchen is also the bestselling author of The Happiness Project, The Four Tendencies, Better Than Before, Life in Five Senses, and now Secrets of Adulthood, a delightful collection of her signature aphorisms—concise, thought-provoking truths gathered from her own experiences and reflections on human nature. Today, Gretchen shares a wealth of bite-sized, digestible truths with Jen and Amy that acknowledge problems everyone faces.  “What we do every day matters more than what we do once in a while.” “Outer order contributes to inner calm.” “A strong voice repels as well as attracts.” “Don’t let perfect be the enemy of good.” And our personal favorite, “Choose the bigger life.” Gretchen also delves into the Four Tendencies and helps Jen and Amy unpack their profiles to better understand whether they are an Upholder, Questioner, Obliger, or Rebel.  Anyone want to take bets? Thought-provoking Quotes: “Happier people are  more interested in the problems of the world. And they're more interested in the problems of the people around them. They're more likely to volunteer. They're more likely to vote. They're more likely to donate their time or their money. They're more likely to help out if someone needs a hand. When we're happier, we're able to turn outward and to think about the problems of the world.” – Gretchen Rubin “Action is the antidote to anxiety.” – Gretchen Rubin “There’s really no more eloquent way to put this: one of the best ways to make friends is to make friends with the friends of your friends.” – Gretchen Rubin “When we're doing something hard, it feels like the times are hard." – Gretchen Rubin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino de Santiago Pilgrimage - https://santiago-compostela.net/ Secrets of Adulthood: Simple Truths for Our Complex Lives by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/4kq8TzF The Happier App - https://thehappierapp.com/ David Sedaris The Happiness Project: Or, Why I Spent a Year Trying to Sing in the Morning, Clean My Closets, Fight Right, Read Aristotle, and Generally Have More Fun by Gretchen Rubin - https://amzn.to/3S9OXox The Four Tendencies Quiz - https://gretchenrubin.com/quiz/the-four-tendencies-quiz/  The English Understand Wool by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43iUOgg The Last Samurai by Helen DeWitt - https://amzn.to/43tjDaF 5 Things Making Me Happy Newsletter - https://gretchenrubin.com/newsletter/5-things-making-me-happy-september-16-2022/ Sandwich: A Novel by Catherine Newman - https://amzn.to/4m9KGiy Guest’s Links: Website - https://gretchenrubin.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/gretchenrubin/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/GretchenRubin Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/GretchenRubin TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@gretchenrubin Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: … We need art and beauty now more than ever We need creators to create And Jen admits to being a metaphor whore Thought-provoking Quotes: “The thing that really kept me going was writing. Writing was the way that I came home to myself.” – Maggie Smith  8:00 Nobody wants my cookbook. The next step will be call Doordash – Maggie Smith 9:00 Every decision you make is a creative decision.  10:15 I always want to grab people by the shoulders…. 13:45 Even if you’re not a writer, if you have a good therapist, they’ll probably tell you to write. 27:15 The quality of your attention in the world is your gift. 31:00 I am so grateful that people make things 35:00 I may look like I’m alone when I’m writing 35:30 I think it’s important to debunk the myth of the solo creator (similar to the tortured artist) 42:00 I would hate for people to think that fully formed poems come out. Just get it down. Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Dear Writer: Pep Talks & Practical Advice for the Creative Life by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/42EPzrc Sturgill Simpson - https://sturgillsimpson.com/ Good Bones poem by Maggie Smith - https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/89897/good-bones Keep Moving: Notes on Loss, Creativity, and Change by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Gal2Kd Moving Forward After Pain Rips Your Script: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-36/moving-forward-after-pain-rips-your-script-maggie-smith/ The Friendships That Save Us: Maggie Smith - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-54/the-friendships-that-save-us-maggie-smith/ The Dear Writer Book Tour - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/dear-writer-book-tour/ You Could Make This Place Beautiful: A Memoir by Maggie Smith - https://amzn.to/3Ep8sWK Bird by Bird: Some Instructions on Writing and Life by Anne Lamott - https://amzn.to/42yKoJi Joan Didion – https://www.joandidion.org/ My Life by Lynn Hejinian - https://amzn.to/3Eo6J40 Sayeed Jones - https://www.readsaeedjones.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://maggiesmithpoet.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/maggiesmithpoet/ Twitter - https://x.com/maggiesmithpoet Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/maggiesmithpoet Substack - https://maggiesmith.substack.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Melissa Radke is the best friend you never knew you always wanted with a Texas-sized heart and sense of humor to match. She’s also an author, speaker, TV personality, and For the Love fan-favorite, best known for her gut-busting sense of humor, deep honesty, and fierce Southern sass. Melissa first gained a national following with her viral videos about parenting and real life, which led to a reality show (The Radkes) and a bestselling book (Eat Cake. Be Brave.) A fierce advocate for women finding their voice—especially in midlife—Melissa brings laughter and tears to everything she touches. Her newest project, Chicken Fried Women, a collection of stories (with a companion podcast series) celebrates the women—battered on the outside, tender on the inside, some salty, some spicy—who made us who we are. In this life-giving conversation filled with snort-laughs and tears, we talk about:  The incredible women who raised us, taught us, prayed for us, and even humbled us when we needed it most The stories that have become legend in our families—Melissa tells a story about her Aunt Melba helping her mother with fastening her girdle in a cramped church bathroom stall that left Jen and Amy in stitches The friends who have shown up for us in times of crisis with remedies and solutions that we never could have fathomed for ourselves Thought-provoking Quotes: “I have always thought that people who have an innate gift to find and communicate humor, even in the midst of sorrow, possess a gift of healing. And I can’t number how many times I have been on the other side of someone else’s gift of humor and it has restored me in a way that literally nothing else could.” – Jen Hatmaker “Don’t waste another second being around someone who makes you feel like you’re too much. Go sit at a different table. Find a different circle.” – Melissa Radke “I am fully committed, as committed as I am to Christ, to the moo-moo. I make no apologies and I thank the person who rebranded it by calling it a kaftan.” – Melissa Radke Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Eat Cake & Be Brave: The Funny Formula For Life With Melissa Radke - https://bit.ly/4j29Yxm Fierce, Free & Full of Questions: Melissa Radke Gets Jen to Tell it All - https://bit.ly/4lkzm2Q The Radkes - https://www.usanetwork.com/the-radkes Saturday Night Live’s Five Timer’s Club - https://www.nbc.com/nbc-insider/snl-fiver-timers-club-member-hosts Chicken-Fried Women: Friendship, Kinship, and the Women Who Made Us This Way by Melissa Radke - https://amzn.to/3FS6azY The Chicken Fried Women Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Erma Bombeck - https://amzn.to/3DT9NoL Leanne Morgan - https://www.leannemorgan.com/ Tina Fey - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0275486/ Amy Poehler - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0688132/ Mindy Kaling - https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1411676/ She’s in Love with the Boy by Trisha Yearwood - https://open.spotify.com/track/4EJvW4NHAk7TrIeX44jjXF Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.melissaradke.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/msmelissaradke/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MelissaRadkeStretchMarks/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/@MelissaRadke TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melissaradke Podcast - https://www.melissaradke.com/podcast Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: In the span of a single year, Abby Wambach lost her beloved brother, her wife Glennon Doyle  was diagnosed with anorexia, and her sister-in-law Amanda Doyle was diagnosed with breast cancer. For the first time, the trio who host the wildly popular We Can Do Hard Things podcast, all found themselves simultaneously lost, looking for answers. So they turned toward the only thing that’s ever helped them find their way: deep, honest conversations with other brave, kind, wise people. What resulted from those conversations was a myriad of guideposts, words of wisdom from some of the most brilliant wayfinders in the zeitgeist today. In this episode, Jen and Amy talk with Abby and Amanda about some of the most meaningful bits of guidance that they have received from inspirational voices like Elizabeth Gilbert, Jane Fonda, Michelle Obama, Ocean Vuong, Esther Perel,  Justice Ketanji Brown Jackson, and others that they have gathered into a new book called, We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions. Some of the conversations they delve into include: Why are we like this? How do we figure out what we really want? How do we let go, or forgive, or get unstuck? Why do we wake up every day having forgotten everything we know? Why self-loyalty is so damn hard for women? Thought-provoking Quotes: “I'm just trying to remain a human in this political environment, in this place of deep fear where so much is at risk. And I think the way we do that is continuing to see each other as human and continuing to let our hearts break over what should break our hearts.” – Amanda Doyle “Having played on many different teams, I'm well suited to work well with others. I just have to be here and be myself. That is the way that I add value. I am not gonna add value in the way that Glennon and Amanda do. I know that. But that doesn't give me any lack of confidence because I know I bring something to the team.” – Abby Wambach “After 400 or so conversations, it was so wild that, whether we were talking to a person who's been a therapist for 40 years, or a person who's a poet, or a person who's an activist, there were just a handful of questions that all of these people are struggling with. The smartest people in the world are trying to figure out the same things that we are.” – Amanda Doyle Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Forward: A Memoir by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4ckZOFi WOLFPACK: How to Come Together, Unleash Our Power, and Change the Game by Abby Wambach - https://amzn.to/4cpazqg We Can Do Hard Things: Answers to Life's 20 Questions by Glennon Doyle, Abby Wambach, and Amanda Doyle - https://amzn.to/3EfeZ6r Glennon Doyle - https://momastery.com/ Amanda Doyle Stops Keeping Score And Stays In The Moment - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-60/amanda-doyle-stops-keeping-score-and-stays-in-the-moment/ Brené Brown - https://brenebrown.com/ Kate Bowler - https://katebowler.com/about/ Suzanne Stabile - https://suzannestabile.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://abbywambach.com/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/abbywambach/ Twitter - https://x.com/abbywambach Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/abbywambach/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCej3anJvC-rSMd63asN8cXg Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Guest’s Links: Twitter - https://x.com/amandafdoyle Podcast - https://wecandohardthingspodcast.com/ Connect with Jen!Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmakerJen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmakerJen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: She’s become a leading voice in the culinary world and today stars as the lead host of the same cooking competition show that launched her career. Kristen Kish was eliminated from Bravo’s season 10 of Top Chef, only to make a triumphant return through a Last Chance Kitchen opportunity that cleared the way for her to beat out the remaining competition and win the season.  Since that 2013 victory, Kristen has been everywhere – launching a new restaurant, Arlo Grey, in Jen’s hometown of Austin (and another restaurant opening soon in New York), hosting some of our favorite food shows including Kitchens at the End of the World, Iron Chef, and now Top Chef (the student has become the teacher). She’s also flexing a new muscle as an author. In her new book, Accidentally on Purpose, Kristen shares her story of being born in South Korea and adopted into a loving white, midwestern American family and what it was like for her to navigate her identity in all of its racial, sexual and professional contexts. Ultimately, what defines Kristen’s story is how she learned to find her voice and use it and, while accidents may be unexpected, they don’t have to be at odds with our purpose.  Our conversation today covers:  Pivoting, embracing change, and building a life that is truthful and authentic How the road to success was so much more winding and complicated than it may have appeared from the outside Knowing internally that it’s time to make a change or take a new step forward How it’s the behind-the-scenes, off camera moments that nobody sees where the decisions and discoveries are made, where the unexpected meets the intentional, and where things get really interesting. Battling imposter syndrome and burnout and quieting the voice of doubt How life’s best opportunities often come from embracing the unexpected Thought-provoking Quotes: “I figured out that I don't need to be anything other than myself. I figured out I don’t need to replicate somebody else’s way of doing something. My voice matters.” – Kristen Kish “I think a lot of the nurture is in my personal life and a lot of the nature is in my professional life, because I can't tell you why I'm good at certain things. I didn't have to practice holding a knife. I didn't practice putting together flavors. It just came to me.” – Kristen Kish  “For a long time, I didn't know myself at all. I was too scared. I didn't want to know. I was scared of knowing where I came from because what if I found out something absolutely horrible? Sometimes you just don't want to know. And I've had to come to terms with getting to know all the really good things about myself that really have helped me move forward in life, but also really understanding the things that make me a challenge.” – Kristen Kish I wish I would have chosen Bravo over Twitter ten years ago. – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Top Chef - https://www.bravotv.com/top-chef Bravo! - https://www.bravotv.com/ Accidentally on Purpose by Kristen Kish - https://amzn.to/4iJQy04 Feed These People: Slam-Dunk Recipes for Your Crew by Jen Hatmaker -  Arlo Grey restaurant - https://www.thelinehotel.com/austin/restaurants-bars/arlo-grey/ Stef Ferrari, food writer - https://www.theycallmeferrari.com/ferrari-here Charlotte Rose Coleman, fashion stylist - https://www.charlotterosecoleman.com/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.thelinehotel.com/magazine/meet-atx-family-kristen-kish/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/kristenlkish/ Twitter - https://x.com/kristenlkish?lang=en Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/KristenLKish/ TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@kristenlkish Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today, Jen and Amy sit down with a treasured friend of the show, Franciscan priest and truth-teller, Father Richard Rohr. Father Rohr has been a genuine hero of the faith who has guided us through much uncertainty over the years. Sometimes, we turn to him for mystic insights into lighter things like our Enneagram types and relationships. But today, we turned to him for help processing the anger, grief, and dismay we feel living in America right now. And he met the moment, as he always does. With gentle grace, Father Rohr guides us through our toughest questions, like: How do we live compassionately in a time of violence and despair? And what can we do with our private disappointments and the anger we feel in such an unjust world? What can we do? Non-violent resistance is our chief responsibility right now. Like John Lewis said, these times call for some “good trouble”. Join the marches, call and write our elected leaders, and mobilize strategically for upcoming elections. We have several democratic tools at our disposal. Where can we look for inspiration? Father Rohr talks to us about his latest project, The Tears of Things, which recounts the timeless wisdom of the Hebrew prophets and notes “If we can understand the prophets so poorly, if at all, no wonder we have not understood Jesus.”  What’s one thing we can do to live prophetically in these chaotic times? And Father Rohr tells us what is giving him hope today. You’ll find it contagious. Thought-provoking Quotes: You know that the book of Lamentations was included in the Bible and it’s very telling that it's not lamenting any single war or single death. It's about universal sadness, giving us permission for a universal lament for the tragic sense of life.” -  Fr. Richard Rohr “We have to dig deep for hope. There isn't a logical basis for it today. But I do find it in nature.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Tears put us in touch with the soul and that’s their great gift.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “Trust the excluded ones. Trust the little people. Jesus told us that. They will be much closer to the inside of the gospel than anybody who's easily holding power or position. Look for the fruits of the spirit: love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness, and self-control. You won't as readily find that in billionaires as you will in the little people.” – Fr. Richard Rohr “You're ping ponging back and forth between rage and lament. And it's hard to find your center. And then the next day it's something different. It is a daily onslaught right now. It's so overwhelming.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4iaaBU0 Falling Upward: A Spirituality for the Two Halves of Life by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/4jrgkpy The Universal Christ: How a Forgotten Reality Can Change Everything We See, Hope For, and Believe by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/44ruxhU The Tears of Things: Prophetic Wisdom for an Age of Outrage by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3XUyPKP Live Yourself Into a New Way of Thinking: Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-16/live-yourself-into-a-new-way-of-thinking-richard-rohr/ Enneagram Ones – The Reformers with Father Richard Rohr - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-27/enneagram-ones-the-reformers-with-father-richard-rohr/ Everything Belongs: The Gift of Contemplative Prayer by Fr. Richard Rohr - https://amzn.to/3Edg7Yi Center for Contemplation and Action - https://cac.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://cac.org/ Twitter - https://x.com/RichardRohrOFM Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: If we’re lucky, most of us will live an abundant life that’s filled with a number of significant transitions. How we embrace those inevitable life changes and honor that growth can make a big difference in how we are prepared to meet future challenges. Today, Jen and Amy have the pleasure of sitting down with Melinda French Gates to discuss how, at 60, she is stepping into this next beautiful season of life. By giving a rare glimpse into her interior life, and sharing previously untold stories included in her new memoir, The Next Day: Transitions, Change and Moving Forward, Melinda shares the heart-connecting lessons that we all can apply to the universal moments in our lives – including becoming a parent, the loss of a close friend, the loss of a marriage, knowing the right time to make a career move. In this episode, we discuss: The art of letting go and beginning again and making the most of the time between an ending and a new beginning How growing up in a middle-class Catholic family influenced Melinda’s values and worldview What it looks like to loosen the bonds of perfectionism and embrace uncertainty in times of change The new projects, ideas and hopes Melinda has for the future Thought-provoking Quotes: “Surround yourself with great people who are all charging toward the same mission.” – Melinda French Gates “There was something about the rollback of women's rights in the United States that I just never thought we would see in our lifetime. To see that my granddaughters will have fewer rights than I have, just shouldn't be. I felt called to try and do something about that.” – Melinda French Gates “When you lift women up, what I know from all over the world is, they lift families up and they lift societies up. And so they should be able to step into their full power, but there are still barriers in society that hold us back.” – Melinda French Gates “Women don’t tell each other enough that we’re proud of them so it’s good to hear it, no matter who you are.” – Amy Hardin Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Melinda Gates: The Power of Lifting Up Women - https://jenhatmaker.com/podcasts/series-18/melinda-gates-the-power-of-lifting-up-women/ Sara Bareilles - She Used To Be Mine - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53GIADHxVzM Adele - Easy On Me - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3ASj1L6_sY The Gates Foundation “Make Me Care About… with Jen Hatmaker” podcast - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/podcast/make-me-care-about The Next Day: Transitions, Change, and Moving Forward by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FBDoTV The Moment of Lift: How Empowering Women Changes the World by Melinda French Gates - https://amzn.to/3FIW98c Gates Foundation - https://www.gatesfoundation.org/ Pivotal Ventures - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://www.pivotalventures.org/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/melindafrenchgates Twitter - https://x.com/melindagates Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/melindagates Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/c/melindagates TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@melindafrenchgates Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Description: Today’s guest, Shannon Watts, has come to be known as a formidable force in the world. As the founder of Moms Demand Action, the largest grassroots movement against gun violence formed after the Sandy Hook school shooting tragedy in 2012, her activism has mobilized millions of moms to successfully pass  over 500 gun safety laws. As Amy poignantly stated, Shannon’s work “has legitimately made a tangible impact on the safety of my kids in their classrooms”, demonstrating the profound significance of Shannon’s contributions. Watts has since shifted her time and attention to empowering women, whom she credits as the real changemakers in any movement. She has founded the Firestarter School, a platform designed to help women reclaim their power and has a forthcoming book,  Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age, releasing in the summer of 2025, which explores the necessary elements needed to ignite a fire in your life and pursue your passion and purpose. Thought-provoking Quotes: When you get involved in something like activism, it helps you realize that you have all of this untapped power.  And it does give you the audacity to become a firestarter, to prioritize your desires over your obligations. – Shannon Watts Right out of college, I married my college sweetheart at 23-years-old. By the time I was 29, I had three children.  I have a job I don’t love. By my mid-thirties, I realized, this is not the person I would have chosen to be. I was having a difficult time acknowledging that I was living a life that was not true to me. – Shannon Watts So many women keep collecting new fuel, acquiring new skills, waiting for the other pieces to come together.  And we’re prepared when the opportunity presents itself. – Amy Hardin Society shoulders women with so many burdens so she doesn’t have room to explore her desires.  If you’re going to claim space, raise your voice, you are going to get blowback.  The direct proportion of how much you can grow your fire corresponds to how much blowback you're willing to withstand. – Shannon Watts Remind yourself of your wins everyday, whether they’re your wins or wins for what you want to see in the world. Give yourself hope and affirmation. – Shannon Watts Fighting for your safety and your rights is a form of self-care and a form of protection for other people. – Shannon Watts Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Camino Made (B.T. Harman’s Camino de Santiago pilgrimage company) - https://caminomade.com/ Fired Up: How to Turn Your Spark into a Flame and Come Alive at Any Age by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hEYE8K Fight Like a Mother: How a Grassroots Movement Took on the Gun Lobby and Why Women Will Change the World by Shannon Watts - https://amzn.to/4hFP31t 5 Calls App - https://5calls.org/ Firestarter University - https://shannonwatts.org/firestarter-university/ Guest’s Links: Website - https://momsdemandaction.org/shannon-watts/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/shannonrwatts/ Twitter - https://x.com/shannonrwatts Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/fightlikeamother.org Substack - https://shannonwatts.substack.com/ Moms Demand Action website - https://momsdemandaction.org/ Moms Demand Action Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/momsdemand Moms Demand Action Twitter - https://x.com/momsdemand Moms Demand Action Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/MomsDemandAction Moms Demand Action YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/MomsDemandAction Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

In this special SXSW2025 edition of For the Love, Jen Hatmaker sits down with Dr. Stacey Ludwig Johnson, the Senior VP and Executive Dean at Western Governors University (WGU) School of Education. As a lifelong advocate for educators, Dr. Johnson is at the forefront of reimagining how we train, support, and sustain teachers in today’s challenging educational landscape. Jen, a former teacher herself, brings her deep passion for education into this conversation, unpacking the real issues educators face today—from teacher shortages to burnout—and discussing how innovative models like WGU’s competency-based education are transforming access to learning. What You’ll Learn in This Episode Dr. Johnson’s Path to Leadership: How she transitioned from working in corrections to becoming a pioneer in online education. Competency-Based Education: What it is, how it differs from traditional models, and why it’s a game-changer for adult learners. Educator Burnout & Retention: The state of teacher well-being and what’s being done to ensure teachers not only enter the profession but thrive in it. School & Community Support for Teachers: How schools, administrators, and parents can create environments where teachers feel valued. Future Trends in Education: How AI, technology, and apprenticeship programs are shaping the next generation of educators. Thought-provoking Quotes: “We don’t believe in courses just for the sake of courses. Everything at WGU is designed to build skills that translate directly into a career.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Retention is just as critical as recruitment—if we don’t take care of our teachers, we will never solve the teacher shortage crisis.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson “Teachers are literally helping us raise the next generation. Every second of what they do matters.“ - Jen Hatmaker “The future of education must include personalization, technology integration, and real-world experience to prepare students for success.” - Stacey Ludwig Johnson Resources Mentioned in This Episode: Learn more about WGU: wgu.edu Guest’s Links: Interested in becoming a teacher or continuing your education? WGU offers flexible, affordable degree programs designed for working adults. Website - https://www.wgu.edu/ Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/westerngovernorsu/ Twitter - https://x.com/wgu Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/wgu.edu/ Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/user/WesternGovernorsUniv TikTok - https://www.tiktok.com/@wgu Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s Website - https://www.wgu.edu/blog/authors/stacey-ludwig-johnson.html Stacey Ludwig Johnson’s LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/stacey-ludwig-johnson-0bba1715/ Connect with Jen! Jen’s Website - https://jenhatmaker.com/ Jen’s Instagram - https://instagram.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s Twitter - https://twitter.com/jenHatmaker/ Jen’s Facebook - https://facebook.com/jenhatmaker Jen’s YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/user/JenHatmaker The For the Love Podcast is presented by Audacy.  To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices