GOOD ON WOOD

In today’s episode of Good on Wood, we are joined by renowned ethicist, author and professor David P. Gushee to explore the not so ordinary - ordinary story of Magda and André Trocmé, whose steadfast commitment to nonviolence and stubborn sense of duty to love the stranger led them to save thousands of lives during the Holocaust. As community leaders in the rural French village of Le Chambon-sur-Lignon, the Trocmé’s helped spur on a radical movement of rescue and costly hospitality of Jews amid WWII. Through their example, we confront what it means to follow Jesus in the face of systemic evil and how their legacy challenges contemporary responses to violence, racism, nationalism, and Christian identity.*A special thanks to CUNY for use of the archival recordings of Nelly Trocmé Hewett (Madga & André’s daughter) used throughout this episode. ABOUT REV. DR. PROF. DAVID P. GUSHEEDavid P. Gushee earned his Ph.D. in Christian ethics from Union Theological Seminary (NY). Now in his fourth decade of teaching, he has served as Distinguished University Professor of Christian Ethics at Mercer University since 2007. He is also Chair of Christian Social Ethics at Vrije Universiteit (Free University) and Senior Research Fellow at its partner school, International Baptist Theological Study Centre. Through these Amsterdam-based institutions he is privileged to supervise Ph.D. students from around the world.Gushee is the elected past-president of the American Academy of Religion and the Society of Christian Ethics. As of 2025 he is the author, co-author, editor, or co-editor of 30 books, including the bestsellers Kingdom Ethics and Changing Our Mind. His other most notable works are Defending Democracy from Its Christian Enemies, After Evangelicalism, and most recently, The Moral Teachings of Jesus. He lectures and consults globally, regularly speaking to the press and on podcasts as well as in academic and ecumenical church settings. He is widely regarded as one of his generation’s most significant Christian moral thinkers.Over a full 30-year career, he’s been a devoted teacher and mentor as Professor Gushee to college students, seminarians, and PhD students. He’s also led activist efforts on climate, torture, and LGBTQ inclusion, and continues to be a keynote speaker at churches, forums, and universities.David's Website | David's BooksFOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.c This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In today’s episode of Good on Wood, we are joined by our dear comrade, Shane Claiborne, and delve into the remarkable journey of Sister Margaret McKenna, whose life was a beacon of hope and transformation in the streets of Philadelphia and beyond. Sr. Margaret passed away a few weeks ago on April 22, 2026. She was a Medical Mission Sister Margaret who founded New Jerusalem Now! in 1989, an addiction recovery community and program which is still running. She held a PhD in Scripture and Christian Origins, taught religion at LaSalle College, was an ardent anti-war active who joined dozens of nonviolent protests leading to arrests, including a Plowshares action which landed her in prison. Sr. Margaret integrated her yearning to live as a hermit with her love for community, sharing her compassion generously, especially with those living on the margins. ¡PRESENTE!ABOUT SHANE CLAIBORNEShane Claiborne is a prominent speaker, activist, and best-selling author. Shane worked with Mother Teresa in Calcutta, and founded The Simple Way in Philadelphia. He heads up Red Letter Christians, a movement of folks who are committed to living "as if Jesus meant the things he said." Shane is a champion for grace which has led him to jail advocating for the homeless, and to places like Iraq and Afghanistan to stand against war. Now grace fuels his passion to end the death penalty and help stop gun violence.A word from Shane just after McKenna’s passing - “Sr. Margaret McKenna died this week. She’s one of the holiest, and most humbly human, people I’ve ever met. I’m gonna miss her, but I know there’s a party on the other side welcoming her home. Few people have had more impact on my spiritual life than Sr. Margaret. For three decades, she has been one of my dearest friends and mentors. She taught me about prayer, monasticism, community, holy mischief, resistance, courage. We prayed together, and got pepper-sprayed together. We gardened together. We laughed together until we wheezed, and our sides hurt. She blew the shofar on Wall Street as we dumped $10,000 outside the Stock Exchange so homeless folks could have a little taste of the biblical Jubilee. We sang freedom songs, marched in the rain, camped out under the stars… and we went to jail together more times than I can count – doing the good trouble and holy mischief. At one point we were both sentenced to mandatory, court-sanctioned “citizenship training classes” to train us to obey the law… but it didn’t work. Haha. Several years ago, I went to visit her when she was in the hospital, and we weren’t sure she was going to make it… I called a few days later to check on her and one of the nuns said: “She recovered surprisingly well… so well she just went to jail at the Pentagon protesting the war.” Sr. Margaret is a true gift to the world – to me, to all of us at The Simple Way, to the countless folks she welcomed home off the streets or coming out of prison at New Jerusalem. I will miss her something fierce.”[Here’s a picture of us in the abandoned church where we met, as homeless families sought sanctuary inside… and where our vision for The Simple Way was born. This was a few years ago as we remembered the original takeover of St. Edwards church back in 1995.]FOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.caJoin the Good on Wood Podcast today and help us continue to tell the stories of holy mischief makers.Season 1 of The Schism Between Us is releasing June, 2026, follow Marnie Klassen, as she set out to discover why Mennonites and Mennonite Brethren in Canada don’t always get along . . . This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

In today’s episode of Good on Wood we are joined by the prolific historian Dr. Bain Attwood in conversation about the life and legacy of William Cooper, an Aboriginal activist, Yorta Yorta elder, and his connections to broader themes of oppression, memory, and solidarity. The discussion highlights Cooper’s story, late life activism, his identification with biblical narratives, his profound understanding of suffering and the impact of colonization on Indigenous communities. It also explores the complex role of missionaries in Aboriginal lives, the ongoing fight for rights and land, and the cultural connections that shape Indigenous identity today.Together we explore themes of emancipation, faith in leftist politics, and the political legacy of slavery as articulated by William Cooper and others. Along the way, we delve into the complex role of Christianity in Indigenous activism, examples of international solidarity, Cooper’s concept of “thinking-black,” the historical narratives that inform contemporary struggles for land and equality, and the absolute need to keep hope alive amid it all.ABOUT DR. BAIN ATTWOODBain Attwood is Emeritus Professor of History at Monash and has held fellowships at the University of Cambridge and Harvard University. His book Possession: Batman’s Treaty and the Matter of History won the 2010 Ernest Scott Prize for the most distinguished contribution to the history of Australia or New Zealand or colonial history. He is also the author of Rights for Aborigines, Telling the Truth about Aboriginal History, The Making of Native Title: Sovereignty, Property and Indigenous People, and William Cooper: An Aboriginal Life Story, and the co-editor of Telling Stories: Indigenous History and Memory in Australia and New Zealand and Protection and Empire: A Global History.Related article worth exploring:The Evolution of a Myth: How William Cooper became “the man who stood up to Hitler”by. Bain AttwoodFOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.caThis episode was edited and produced by Steve Schallert. Music provided by our own Steve Schallert, Yothu Yindi & The Treaty Project, Priscilla Stanley, and Buhaminak.Episode Chapters:00:00 Introduction to William Cooper’s Legacy02:55 The Suffering and Resilience of Aboriginal Peoples06:01 William Cooper: A Life in Context08:53 Colonization and Its Impact on the Yorta Yorta12:02 The Role of Missionaries in Aboriginal Lives14:56 Christianity and Indigenous Identity18:00 Emancipation and the Fight for Rights21:09 The Complexity of Missionary Influence24:00 Cultural Connections and Shared Struggles27:05 The Legacy of William Cooper and His People33:40 Emancipation and the Legacy of Slavery34:54 Political Rights and Indigenous Identity36:26 Petitioning as a Political Tool38:36 Christianity and Indigenous Agency41:28 Historical Narratives and Political Rights42:55 The Significance of 1938 in Activism46:18 Struggles for Land and Autonomy51:25 Education and Equality in Activism54:47 The Day of Mourning: A Protest Against Commemoration64:10 Historical Perspectives on Aboriginal Suffering69:16 Cultural Connections: Spirituals and Solidarity72:14 William Cooper: A Voice Against Oppression79:44 Memory and Identity: The Legacy of Cooper90:04 Contemporary Reflections on Cooper’s Impact This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

On today’s special 20th episode of the Good on Wood Podcast we reboot an interview between Howard Thurman and Landrum Bolling from 1976 thanks to the good folk at the Howard Thurman Digital Archive. This edited and freshly remastered conversation follows Howard Thurman from his boyhood in segregated Daytona Beach to his seminary years, teaching career, and mystical theology and praxis. Thurman reflects on the spiritual power of nature, his grandmother’s influence, racial humiliation, prayer, hope, and nonviolence as a love ethic to survive a hostile world.If you haven’t heard our previous episode “Howard Thurman and the Disinherited w. Dr. Paul Harvey” hit pause and give it a listen first. Then return here to listen to Thurman in his own words.FOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca“There is something in every one of you that waits and listens for the sound of the genuine in yourself. It is the only true guide you will ever have. And if you cannot hear it, you will all of your life spend your days on the ends of strings that somebody else pulls.”- HOWARD THURMAN This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe

Howard Thurman knew the real battle starts inside you. Before you can change the world, can you face your own fear, hypocrisy, and hunger for approval? Historian Dr. Paul Harvey joins Steve Schallert and Jarrod McKenna to trace the life, mysticism, and revolutionary influence of one of the 20th century’s most important spiritual thinkers.Thurman’s story is astonishing: born into poverty in segregated Florida, shaped by a grandmother who had been enslaved, mentored by the people and ideas that formed Black religious life, and later propelled into conversations with Quakers, Gandhi, and the architects of the American freedom movement. Harvey reveals how Thurman’s inner life was forged by hardship, why trees, storms, and the silence mattered so much to his spirituality, and how those influences became the foundation for a vision of liberation that still challenges the church today.Harvey also brings Thurman into the present moment, connecting his warnings about hatred, fear, and dehumanisation to our own age of outrage and exhaustion. This is not just a biography lesson - it is a bracing invitation to recover the contemplative depth social movements desperately need if they are going to last.Essential listening if you care about spirituality, justice, nonviolence, or the question Thurman kept asking: Who are you really?ABOUT DR. PAUL HARVEYPaul Harvey is Distinguished Professor of History and Presidential Teaching Scholar at UCCS. Harvey is the recipient of the James W. C. Pennington Award from the Heidelberg Center for American Studies at the University of Heidelberg, Germany, given to scholars who have done distinguished work on slavery, emancipation, peace, education, reform, civil rights, and religion; and is also the Co-Director of the Center for the Study of Evangelicalism at UCCS. He researches, writes, and teaches in the field of American history from the 16th century to the present. He is the author/editor of thirteen books and numerous articles.Most recently, Paul Harvey is the author of Martin Luther King: A Religious Life (Rowman & Littlefield, 2021), and Howard Thurman Howard Thurman and the Disinherited: A Religious Biography (Eerdmans Press, 2020), as well as Christianity and Race in the American South: A History(University of Chicago Press, 2016), and Bounds of Their Habitation: Religion and Race in American History (Rowman & Littlefield, 2017). Professor Harvey’s recent co-authored book The Color of Christ: The Son of God and the Saga of Race in America, was named a “Top 25 Outstanding Academic Title” by Choice magazine in 2013, an award selected from among the several thousand academic books published in the previous year.FOLLOW US* ⁠@goodonwood.podcast⁠* @ststephensuniversity⁠* ⁠@jfi_ssu⁠* ⁠@steveschallert⁠* ⁠@jarrodmckenna⁠To learn more about St Stephen’s University and all of our program offerings in Theology & Culture, Peace & Justice, or Reconciliation Studies visit us at - ssu.ca This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit goodonwoodpodcast.substack.com/subscribe