Grief Out Loud

In this episode, we talk with Kelly and Miguel Cervantes about their daughter Adelaide, who lived with epilepsy and complex medical needs. Kelly and Miguel share what it was like to parent a child who couldn't speak or move but who still made her preferences known – including smacking her brother when she was done playing and loving anything by Frank Sinatra. They talk about the very different roles they occupied during Adelaide's life: Kelly as a full-time caregiver who became fluent in her daughter's medical world, and Miguel, who moved in and out of that world while performing eight shows a week as Alexander Hamilton in Chicago.  We also talk about grief that followed when Adelaide died in 2019, just before her 4th birthday. Kelly describes the secondary loss of her identity as a caregiver and Miguel talks about what it meant to step onto a stage each night and, at times, find his own grief story overlapping with Hamilton's. Both parents reflect on how differently they grieve — Kelly's grief as something that pours out in what she calls "werewolfing," and Miguel's as private and internal — and how learning to recognize and support those differences became a turning point in their marriage. They close by talking about their son Jackson, and what they've learned about supporting a child who grieves on his own terms.  We discuss: Adelaide — her personality, her humor, her love of Sinatra  The different roles of parent and caregiver  Miguel's experience moving between the hospital and the Hamilton stage  "Werewolfing" — Kelly and Miguel's very different ways of grieving, and how they learned to support each other in those  Secondary losses: grieving an identity, a routine, a sense of purpose, alongside grieving Adelaide Finding meaning through advocacy, writing, and music in Adelaide's honor  Parenting their son Jackson through his own grief, and learning he needed support that didn't come from them  About Kelly and Miguel Cervantes:  Kelly Cervantes is a writer and advocate whose books include Normal Broken and The Luckiest. She serves on the boards of CURE Epilepsy and the Undiagnosed Diseases Network Foundation. Miguel Cervantes is an actor and singer known for originating the title role in the Chicago production of Hamilton.   Kelly and Miguel will be joining Dougy Center in Portland, Oregon, on October 27th, 2026, for our Focus on Hope luncheon. Visit dougy.org/hope for details.

Sometimes grief and how it shows up is obvious. Other times we might not recognize our experience as grief until something shifts our perspective. This was true for Juniper Wong, MSW, LICSW, a therapist who specializes in supporting those who are grieving through self-compassion, mindfulness, somatic experiencing, and Internal Family Systems (IFS). Juniper shares how caring for her father during the final weeks of his life changed her understanding of grief, sparking a recognition of how much of her own life had been shaped by the loss and grief passed down her family line. Becoming a mother led Juniper to see connections between her own fears and those of the women in her family line, fears that were rooted in loss. She describes using meditation, movement, writing, and even imagined conversations with ancestors as ways of making sense of what she was carrying. All of these personal experiences with grief inform the work Juniper does to help others name and work with their grief - including Happy Hour for Sad People, a monthly gathering through Grounded Grief in Portland, Oregon, where laughter, dark humor, tears, and connection can coexist. We Discuss: Recognizing how grief often underlies other challenges like anxiety and depression How caring for a dying parent can transform a relationship The grief that can surface when someone no longer has the energy to keep it buried Ancestral grief and the losses we may carry without knowing their origins Ambiguous loss and "the loss that doesn't get a funeral" How pregnancy and motherhood opened up a new understanding of family grief Rituals for staying connected to people who have died Making room for laughter and dark humor alongside grief Creating less traditional spaces for people to gather around loss Follow Juniper on IG - https://www.instagram.com/iamjuniperwong Substack - https://substack.com/@juniperwong Grounded Grief - https://www.groundedgrief.com/

When Frank Flores's younger brother Marcelo died suddenly at 23, Frank found himself in an unfamiliar role: identifying his brother's body, navigating paperwork, and figuring out how to bring him home to the U.S. from Mexico. There was little room for grief. Instead, Frank went back to work - and then worked even more. Five years later, Frank's father died during COVID. Once again, grief was crowded out by the bureaucracy of death: bank accounts, debts, paperwork, family responsibilities, and the messy, exhausting task of untangling a life after death. Frank describes this as a "mountain of paperwork stacked on top of our grief." It took years for Frank to recognize how staying busy prevented him from being with his grief. That realization eventually became part of the inspiration for FamiliaLista, a bilingual resource designed to help people organize the information family members need if someone becomes unable to speak for themselves—or after they die. In this conversation, Frank talks about the deaths of his brother and father, the pressure he felt to be strong for his family, cultural discomfort with talking about death, and how he's making more space for grief. He also shares his hope that preparing for death can be understood not as morbid or inviting death, but as an act of love. We Discuss: Frank's relationship with his father and younger brother, Marcelo Being responsible for identifying his brother's body and bringing him home The logistical work that can accompany sudden death The different experiences of an unexpected death and an anticipated death The pressure to be strong and "fix" things for other family members How grief can change and evolve over many years Cultural beliefs and taboos around talking about death The importance of preparing for the practical realities of death Frank's creation of FamiliaLista as a way to help families navigate those realities Reframing end-of-life preparation as an act of love Follow FamiliaLista on IG - https://www.instagram.com/familia.lista

What if we thought about death not as something that needs to be handed over to institutions, but as something that communities could face together?  In this episode we talk with Crystal Meneses, a death worker, spiritual counselor, hospice chaplain, artist, musician, and longtime community caregiver. Crystal's path into death work began with watching a recording of her grandfather's funeral in the Philippines, which sparked questions around being able to one day provide a similar ceremony for her father. Questions that inspired her work to help us rethink how we approach death and dying.  Crystal and Jana explore the cultural differences in how death and grief are understood, including what Crystal has learned from her Filipino and Indigenous connections. They talk about the possibilities of caring for someone at home, tending to their body after death, creating rituals, and making intentional choices around end-of-life.  Crystal also shares what she's witnessed in the communities she serves - including elders, caregivers, young people, and people in prisons and other institutional settings - and the many ways grief goes unsupported.   Throughout the conversation, Crystal returns to the importance of relationship: building networks of care, making room for different spiritual beliefs and identities, and practicing togetherness in a culture that often treats death as something to manage alone.  We Discuss: Crystal's two grandmothers and the different cultural relationships she experienced with death and grief   What it means to "bring death back into the hands of communities"   Crystal's own hopes for her end-of-life care & how she cares for herself in this work  Supporting children and teens through art and music when grief is difficult to put into words Indigenous, multicultural, and multispiritual approaches to grief and death   The systemic barriers that make care and connection more difficult  Crystal reminds us that there isn't one right way to grieve, to die, or to care for someone who is dying, and that we may have more choices than we've been taught to believe.  Connect with Crystal on IG - https://www.instagram.com/crystalakinsmeneses/ 

In 2022, Steph Tupper's two older children, Ali and Joe, were killed in a car crash. Ali was 16 and Joe was 14. Four years later, Steph is still learning how to live with the reality of losing her children while continuing to parent her youngest daughter.  In this episode, Steph talks openly about the devastating night she learned Ali and Joe had died, the ways she continues to feel connected to them, and the complicated process of building a life around an absence that will never go away. She shares what she has learned about community, judgment from others - and herself, parenting after loss, and allowing grief to unfold without a timeline.  In the last four years, Steph has learned how devastating pain and great joy can coexist, and how her capacity to carry grief continues to grow. We discuss: The shock of sudden loss  Feeling connected to Ali and Joe through signs, memories, and a sense of their presence  Parenting her daughter while grieving  The importance of community and finding other parents who have experienced child loss  The pressure and judgment people who are grieving can face  Why grief doesn't follow a timeline - and why support shouldn't either  Navigating anniversaries, holidays, birthdays, and back-to-school season  Learning to anticipate difficult seasons rather than trying to make them disappear  Making space for both joy and profound sadness  What it means to simply sit with someone's grief instead of trying to fix it  Learn more about Dougy Center's grief education & training offerings: https://www.dougy.org/professionals-trainings