It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

What would a meaningful life look like for you? According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have.    It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better.    Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com   In this episode we cover:    What’s a Death Doula?  Does being honest about death give you access to joy? Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope?  Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead)  The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around.    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care   The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers About our guest: Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human   Going with Grace   Megan mentions this book -  Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What should you do if someone wants to be friends, but you’re not into it? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    Welcome to part two of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Starting over in a new place with new friends  Why we so often confuse boundaries with being mean or rude The power of social observation to gather data (Megan’s go-to move!)  Scripts for saying “no thank you” to a potential friendship when that feels both mean and necessary   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when someone cuts you out of their life? How do you back away slowly from someone you really don’t want to be around? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    This week on It’s OK, part one of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Why relational self-awareness is the key to all good relationships Can step-parents and adult step-kids get along after a loss in the family?  How to negotiate the relationship you want when the other people maybe don’t want you around The difference between “letting go of outcome” and setting yourself up for success   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you’ve lived through horrific trauma or abuse, is it really fair of us to say that the ways you’ve learned to cope are “bad,” or to use clinical speak, “maladaptive”?  This week on It’s OK, Stephanie Foo, author of What My Bones Know, joins me to talk about complex PTSD and the ways we pathologize human responses to trauma. You’ll also hear how claiming your own messy, complex coping mechanisms can help you build a community that sees you and loves you.  If you’re haunted by any type of trauma, or know someone who is, this conversation is a great introduction to complex PTSD, and the work of survivorship.    In this episode we cover:    Why pretending to be a high-performing badass is maybe not in your best interest How storytelling can make you feel less freakish and alone The real problem with most books on trauma and C-PTSD   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Stephanie Foo is a C-PTSD survivor, writer, and radio producer, most recently for This American Life. Her work has aired on Snap Judgment, Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. A noted speaker and instructor, she has taught at Columbia University and has spoken at venues from Sundance Film Festival to the Missouri Department of Mental Health. She lives in New York City with her husband.   Find her at stephaniefoo.me and on Instagram @foofoofoo   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Stephanie’s book, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com Listen to previous episodes of It’s OK that You’re Not OK!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s no denying the grief that permeates everyday life. It’s in the news, in our communities, and in our personal lives. The thing is - we never really talk about how much this grief connects us.  This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone - whether you’re grieving a personal loss or you’re an activist of any kind. It was recorded in the summer of 2023, so you will not hear us mention P*lestine - you can bet if we’d recorded it now, that grief, and that need for belonging, would be present. If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril, through her death in 2018.   In this episode we cover:    The difference between sorrow and grief How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive?  Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief?  Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes:  Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, The Atlantic, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them at @radical_loss Instagram.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read “The Antidote to Authoritarianism” from The Atlantic   Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it?  Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

PROLONGED GRIEF DISORDER! It’s everywhere - social media, The New York Times, The Washington Post… it’s the hot new medical condition everyone’s talking about. But why is everyone so mad about it?  This week on the show, an overview of this hotly contested “new” human disorder, and what it means for the average person, for healthcare providers, and honestly - for the whole world. This is one medical diagnosis that affects everyone.    In this episode we cover:    Why anyone should care what the APA thinks about grief The actual diagnostic criteria for prolonged grief disorder (translated from psych-jargon into the way real people speak) Access to care + funding for research: two of the main reasons people think this diagnosis could be helpful (and why it isn’t)  The real world impact of the DSM: doubling down on shame and misunderstanding One surprise reason this diagnosis *could* be seen as a good thing   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: For an interview with both Megan and the author of the NYT article, Ellen Barry, on WGBH TV Boston, click here.    To read Megan’s more detailed response to the NYT article, check out the original Twitter thread, and the extended thread.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sam Sanders is a well known and well loved radio and podcast host. He went a little extra-viral for a recent episode of his show, Vibe Check,  in which he and his co-hosts openly discussed grief. Maybe you heard that episode: Life Has Been Lifing Lately.  This week on It’s OK That You’re Not OK, Sam joins us to talk about being open with his grief, and the ongoing relationships we have even after death.    In this episode we cover:    What happens if you give grief a voice?  The double-edged sword of church communities Why understanding context helps you treat yourself more kindly How men speaking honestly about grief helps everyone Throwing out the rule book on grief   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episodes:  A Renaissance of our Own: Rachel Cargle    Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle   About our guest: Sam Sanders is the host of Into It, the flagship culture podcast from Vulture, and the co-host of Vibe Check on Stitcher. He covered electoral politics for NPR, and was one of the original co-hosts of The NPR Politics Podcast. Sam also created and hosted the NPR news & culture podcast, It’s Been a Minute. Find him on social @samsanders   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ever wonder what doctors say about their patients when they think no one can hear?  Dr. Rana Awdish doesn’t have to wonder - as a patient, she overheard a lot of distressing things. Her experience led her to change how medical providers speak about - and to - their patients, spreading compassion through communication (which we know is a mission dear to my heart). Listen in to hear Dr. Awdish’s take on the pressure on healthcare workers, too.  Content note: mention of life-threatening illness, pregnancy loss, medical industry   In this episode we cover:    The “two educations” of Dr. Awdish - med school and a life threatening illness Why miscommunication is such a dangerous medical practice Being present is only the first step - validation is where the real healing begins Why compassionate communication helps doctors - maybe even more than it helps patients  The very cool CLEAR program - using trained actors to help doctors & medical providers learn how to connect with patients going through some of the hardest times of their lives We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr. Rana Awdish is a critical care physician operating on the front lines during COVID-19 at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, MI. Her own serious illness in 2008 has informed her belief in the power of compassion, sacred listening, and community. As medical director of the Care Experience for the Henry Ford Healthcare System, she is training staff to practice empathy in critical care. Find her at ranaawdishmd.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Dr. Awdish’s book - In Shock: My journey from death to recovery and the redemptive power of hope Read  “Restoration in the Aftermath” and ”The Shape of the Shore” from Dr. Awdish Creative Writing as a Medical Instrument - paper by Jay Baruch, cited by Dr. Awdish Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

It’s no secret that healthcare professionals and caregivers of all kinds are stretched beyond their limits. We can’t look to healthcare systems themselves to give us the care and attention we need, so where CAN we go for support (and answers)?  Don’t miss this week’s episode with guests Koshin Paley Ellison and Chodo Robert Campbell of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care.  In this episode we cover:   Why it’s important to look beyond the identified patient to the invisible web of caregivers The realities of caregiver burnout and stress The one practice you can do even - and especially - when you have no time to care for yourself Do you stay or do you go? Making decisions for yourself inside this healthcare system catastrophe   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guests: Sensei Chodo Robert Campbell is co-founder of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care. His passion lies in bereavement counseling and advocating for change in the way our healthcare institutions work with the dying. Find Chodo and the NYZC @newyorkzencenter on IG, and online at zencare.org   Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, Jungian psychotherapist, and Certified Chaplaincy Educator. He is the author of Wholehearted: Slow Down, Help Out, Wake Up and the co-editor of Awake at the Bedside: Contemplative Teachings on Palliative and End of Life Care. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: If you work in healthcare, I very strongly recommend you check out New York Zen Center’s  Contemplative Medicine Fellowship.     To hear one of my favorite passages of all time, read by Chodo Robert Campbell, check out the first video at this link.   All of the Zen Center’s offerings, from books to support groups to ongoing educational opportunities can be found at zencare.org.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world can feel like such a lonely place sometimes. You ever feel like there’s not enough love and support to go around? Like, there’s a severe shortage of compassion in the world, both for you and well, everyone? Me too, friends.  To get us into this topic, this week on It’s OK, we cover grief comparisons, like whether divorce and death should be compared, or if the death of anyone should be compared to the loss of a pet. Of course the short answer is no: grief comparisons are never useful. For the long answer though - listen to the show.  This episode is basically my TED talk, if I had one, on how we create that support-filled world we all want (and deserve). It’s my personal favorite episode of season one, brought to you again for this Valentine’s day.    In this episode we cover: Why comparing divorce to death, or pet loss to child loss, is a Very. Bad. Idea. (usually) Is it ok to be sad about a musician or actor’s death, even if you never met them?  How to treat compassion like an abundant resource AND have good boundaries all at the same  The path to the love-filled, support-rich world we all want (it’s not easy, but it’s worth it)  Terminology update: in this episode I use the term gender-fluid, but the term gender-expansive is more accurate.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Notable quote:  “It sounds pretty woo but compassion really is an expandable resource. Practicing inclusion and validation means people feel heard, and heard people hear people, which means the whole culture starts to change from one of vindictive “how dare you feel that way!” to at worst, a neutral, impartial kindness, and at best - well, being generous like this creates a world built and sustained by love.” - Megan Devine   Resources:  Love in action! Check out this exceptionally non-extensive list of people to learn from as we grow the love-filled world we all want:  Rachel Cargle, Alok Menon, Alice Wong, Free Mom Hugs, Farmer Veteran Coalition, Natalie Weaver, & Resting Waters   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Tembi Locke lived an amazing love story: she met a handsome chef during a study abroad year in Italy when she was just 20 years old. They moved to LA to pursue Tembi’s acting career, and built a life around their love of food, family, and each other. And then leiomyosarcoma arrived.  Is it still a Hollywood love story if it doesn’t have a happy ending?   In this episode we cover:    Who’s the real couple behind the hit Netflix series, From Scratch?  Why Tembi made sure From Scratch was an honest guide to profound loss How the sleeper hit show Eureka taught Tembi that it’s ok to let people help How Tembi Locke learned about the grief in Never Have I Ever only after the show came out   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   Related episodes : Live Each Day Like It’s Your First: with Alua Arthur Grief In Fiction, Grief In Life, with Best-Selling Author, Emily X.R. Pan   About our guest: Tembi Locke is a writer, executive producer, and an accomplished actor. Her best-selling book, From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home was the basis for the hit Netflix series, From Scratch. Find her @tembilocke   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Tembi Locke’s book - From Scratch: A Memoir of Love, Sicily, and Finding Home   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Did anyone teach you that understanding your grief is the key to being (or becoming) a healthy human being? Probably not.  In this expansive episode, Megan speaks with world-renowned author and physician Gabor Maté about the role of trauma and grief in our personal lives and in society at large. Dr. Gabor Maté on grief, this week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   In this episode we cover:    What is “personal agency” and why does losing personal agency create disease?  Why calling grief a disorder has social, relational and political ramifications How do elephants grieve? Is it really so different from humans?  Women as the emotional shock absorbers for the rest of the world Dr. Gabor Maté’s conversation with Prince Harry (!)    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About our guest:  Dr. Gabor Maté is a renowned speaker and author, with expertise in trauma, stress, addiction, and child development. He’s the NYT best-selling author of The Myth of Normal, Scattered Minds, the award-winning In the Realm of Hungry Ghosts, and many other books.    Find him at drgabormate.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Watch the documentary The Wisdom of Trauma  exploring Gabor Maté’s work to understand the connection between illness, addiction, trauma, and society.     Read Hold on to Your Kids by Gordon Neufeld & Gabor Maté Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you heal pain by focusing on joy?  Baratunde Thurston gave what’s been called “the greatest TED talk of all time.” He’s written about being Black in America, he’s got a podcast about community involvement called How to Citizen, and he’s got a PBS television show that explores the beauty and diversity of America.  There’s a duality running through all of this work, and in Baratunde’s personal life: mourning and celebration. From the early death of a parent, to men’s emotional health, to violence against Black men and boys, to the healing power of play and community, this week’s episode is a fascinating discussion of both grief and celebration - and why you don’t get one without the other.    In this episode we cover:  Baratunde says he’s “wired for optimism” - which makes identifying his own grief… complicated How you can lose a parent at a young age and not recognize the impact until you’re an adult Why seeing other people be good parents can bring up grief Black joy and men’s community (plus the hashtag #BlackMenFrolicking) Why is it hard to play as an adult - and find other adults to play with?  We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Baratunde Thurston is an Emmy-nominated, multi-platform storyteller and producer operating at the intersection of race, tech, democracy, and climate. He is the host of the PBS television series America Outdoors with Baratunde Thurston, creator and host of How To Citizen with Baratunde, and a founding partner of the new media startup Puck. His comedic memoir, How To Be Black, is a New York Times best-seller. Baratunde serves on the boards of BUILD.org and the Brooklyn Public Library.    Find him at baratunde.com and follow him on social media @baratunde   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Baratunde’s book - How to be Black  Baratunde’s TED talk How to Deconstruct Racism, One Headline at a Time  ‘America is addicted to watching me die…’ - Baratunde’s Puck article "Thoughts & Tears For Tyre"  Baratunde mentioned Valarie Kaur - get her book, See No Stranger, and listen to her episode on It’s OK that You’re Not OK   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever wanted to just SMASH things? Leanne Pedante and her husband Miles’ relationship was built on bravery and communication - they worked so hard to reach the next step together, excited to explore the edges of possibility in love and in life. On his way back to see Leanne after several months away, Miles’ car veered off the road, and he was killed. In the just under three years since, Leanne has continued to grow the virtual reality fitness community, Supernatural. As a late-comer to fitness, Leanne is no stranger to using movement as a way to process and express pain.  Today on It’s OK, we discuss the ways grief has upended her life, and the ways that both movement and community have kept her alive - willing, at least most days, to lean into the full experience of life.    In this episode we cover:    Punk-style relationships: how Leanne & Miles created a marriage that suited them What one friend told Leanne, and how those words kept her tethered to the world Why grief-informed fitness should really be a thing The weird world of encouraging others to do things you’re not comfortable doing yourself   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses About our guest: Leanne Pedante is a trainer and trauma + resiliency coach, whose work focuses on connecting people to their bodies and to their full potential. She works as both coach and the Head of Fitness for Supernatural, the VR fitness platform. Her own workouts let her celebrate her physical and mental strength and she wants to show others how to access the pride and power within joyful movement. Follow her on IG at @leannepedante About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional resources: Sign up for Leanne’s newsletter and check out the other community-building things she’s created at her website leannepedante.com   Try Supernatural with a free trial (VR headset required) Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The holidays are over - you made it. By the looks of our inbox, the season wasn’t easy. This week, a holiday debrief, including bad behavior from therapists, why religion is not the answer to grief, and some true facts about dating after loss.    In this episode we cover:   How to say “I can’t work with you” without accidentally shaming your patients or clients Why “but your (dead relative) is all around you, just in a new form!” maybe isn’t the most supportive thing to say Questions to ask yourself when faced with a surprise romantic breakup (and what that has to do with grief)  And as always - fun talk about boundaries.    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022. Want to become a more grief-informed, human-centered therapist or provider? Registration is open now for Megan Devine’s 6 month online Grief Care Professional Certificate Program. Details at this link.    Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler.    In part 2 of this episode we cover    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great?  Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible.    Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)   Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Is acceptance overrated? What happens when you have to face a new year without your person in it (or without the health you used to have!)?  In this special two-part episode, we face the new year together - with special guest, historian, author, and queen of awkward conversations, Kate Bowler.    In this episode we cover:    How do you have hope for the year to come when right now maybe isn’t so great?  Acceptance, moving forward, and ferocious self-advocacy The Math of Suffering: this year, last year, and measuring love Why social bonds matter, and what happens when no one sees you We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2021.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Kate Bowler, PhD, is an associate professor of the history of Christianity in North America at Duke Divinity School. Author of the New York Times bestselling memoir, Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved). Her latest book, No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear), grapples with her diagnosis, her ambition, and her faith as she tries to come to terms with limitations in a culture that says anything is possible.    Find her at katebowler.com and follow her on social media @katecbowler   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Kate Bowler’s memoir Everything Happens for a Reason (and Other Lies I’ve Loved)   Read Kate’s latest book No Cure For Being Human (and Other Truths I Need to Hear)   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

My dad used to read ‘‘Twas the Night Before Christmas” every Christmas Eve when I was a kid, after dinner and before we opened our Christmas pjs.    So many of you are missing your dads, or grandparents, or the father of your kids. This year, I asked my dad to record the Christmas Eve classic for the show. I wanted you to have a stand-in grandpa, in case you were missing one of your own.    From my family to yours, may you have the best holiday season available to you.  (‘Twas the Night Before Christmas by Clement Clarke Moore was first published in 1823) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. Visit refugeingrief.com for resources & courses   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.