How I Write

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com David Gelb directed 'Jiro Dreams of Sushi' and 'Chef's Table', which is what this conversation is all about: the art of making documentaries, telling stories, and bringing people to life. He says that whenever you're writing a scene, a character should come into it wanting one thing and leave with something else. David spent a lot of time with the world's top chefs, so I had to ask what lessons he learned from them and how those lessons seeped into his work. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Patrick Radden Keefe is going to teach us how to write narrative nonfiction. It's something he's been doing for 20 years as a staff writer at the New Yorker. He's also written six full-length nonfiction books. Patrick is known for this style called Write Around Reporting. So you want to focus on somebody who's wealthy or powerful, and they're just like, "No, I'm not going to talk to you. I flat out refuse." How do you still get that story done? That is Patrick's area of expertise. He did this with his book about the Sackler family, where they basically said, "We're going to threaten to sue you if you write this book." So then I said, "Well, what is it that you do to tell that story once you find it?" And he said, "You got to find your Donkey. A donkey to pull you through the piece." I was like, "What do you mean by that?" Well, you're about to find out. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Wright Thompson is one of the best nonfiction storytellers in the world right now. He showed up to my place, and I immediately liked his vibe. We started talking, and it turns out we both love Guinness Zero. So we cracked open a beer, and we just talked about the writing process. How do you tell a great story? How do you nail an ending? How do you use details to bring a character to life? That's what this episode is all about, and it's a heck of a lot of fun, too. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Ocean Vuong is a poet, a novelist, and a professor at NYU. He's just really good at writing in this fresh, enchanted, and imaginative way. He has this way of seeing and experiencing the world that's alive and filled with wonder. If you want to write prose that's lush, words that are vivid, and stories that pulse with life, then you're going to love this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Do you ever wonder how the book publishing industry works? How does the CEO of a top-five publishing house even think? That's what this episode is all about. My guest is John Yaged. He runs Macmillan, which is one of the top five publishing houses. I asked him to talk to me like I'm a young writer who has never published a book before. And that's what he did. If you're interested in improving your writing, if you want to be a super successful writer and understand how this industry works, then you're going to like this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Michael Connelly is a crime novelist famous for series like 'Harry Bosch' and 'The Lincoln Lawyer'. Combined, his series have sold more than 100 million books, and they've become TV shows on Netflix, MGM, and Amazon Prime, where he's not just writing but is also the executive producer. His fingerprints are all over the work. I wanted to ask him how he dreams up vivid characters and how he writes about a city, a town, or a place. If you want to write, come up with stories, imagine worlds and put them onto the page, you're in the right place. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Steven Pressfield is a master in the art of storytelling. He spent decades studying what great stories have in common. So that's what we're going to talk about: the principles of storytelling and character building. I want to know the things that transcend genre and culture, and speak to the heart of the human condition. I want X-ray vision into what makes stories great. I want to know what makes you get to the end of the story and just say "wow". That's what this conversation is all about. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Robert Mac is on the show today to teach us what he's learned from great comics like Jerry Seinfeld and Mitch Hedberg. Robert has been doing stand up for more than a decade, and I wanted to know what he's learned about how to be funny, how to tell a good story. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is presented by Mercury, the banking platform that makes this show possible. I can’t imagine trying to run my business without them. Learn more at https://mercury.com Bill Browder has written two books, Freezing Order and Red Notice, which was everywhere when it came out in 2015. It’s a page-turner. I had to ask him how he thought about building character, bringing people into the story and keeping people engaged. Enjoy! About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Diarmaid MacCulloch is an author, a professor at Oxford, and he's obsessed with history. A real expert who's been studying it for decades. In this episode, we talked about how to do history, the role of a historian in society, and how to take everything you learn in the research phase and turn it into clear, vivid, and entertaining writing. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Lee Child, the man behind the "Jack Reacher" series, has sold more than 200 million books. It is the best-selling series of all time on Amazon in the UK. More than Harry Potter, which is crazy! A new book is sold on average every nine seconds. So how does he do it? How does he write it? How does he come up with the ideas? That's what we're going to find out. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Clint Bentley and Greg Kwedar are the two brilliant minds behind Train Dreams, the Oscar-nominated adaptation of Denis Johnson’s novella. Their film is emotionally devastating in ways that stay with you long after the credits roll. In this interview, I wanted to understand how that kind of film actually gets made. We talk about how they taught themselves filmmaking by building a mental archive of films, how a single frame can unlock an entire scene, and why adapting a book spirit often requires stepping away from its words. This How I Write episode is an exploration into how two directors think together, and how a deeply human story becomes something monumental. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

This episode is brought to you by Basecamp, the world’s simplest, most effective project management platform. Check them out at https://basecamp.com and tell them David Perell sent you. Fareed Zakaria is one of the world’s leading journalists. Maybe you’ve seen him on CNN. Maybe you’ve read his books. Or maybe you’ve read his articles in the Washington Post. This conversation is a university-level seminar in the craft of writing, which builds upon the thousands of articles Fareed’s written over his career. It’s a guidepost for anybody who wants to write non-fiction. How do you develop expertise? How should you structure your days? What kinds of deadlines should you set? We also talked about how The Great Gatsby shaped his perspective on America, when to rely on anecdotes vs. data, and the skills that’ll remain scarce as AI breaks through the Turing Test and becomes a hyper-competent writer. The through-line of Fareed’s work is a philosophy of purposeful practice: watching all his TV performances to see how he can improve, reading great writing to absorb what excellence looks like, and using the deadlines of TV and newspaper columns to write consistently. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Daniel Pink is one of the most successful nonfiction writers of the past 30 years. You've probably seen his books: "Drive," "The Power of Regret," or "To Sell Is Human." Maybe you've even seen his viral TED Talk about the science of motivation. In this conversation, we started by talking about his writing process, which he's been doing consistently for so many years. I wanted to know when, where, and how often he writes. I wanted to know all about it. At the very end, Dan goes: "I've got one more thing to share with you." And then he shares is the most important question that any writer can ask before they take on a new project. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Tom Junod is famous for writing essays that have defined both people and events. He wrote a piece called "The Falling Man" for Esquire, which is the canonical piece about 9/11. Later on, he wrote the iconic "Can You Say...Hero?" about Fred Rogers, also for Esquire. What's unique about this conversation is that it's both practical and deep, but it all comes to a head at the end. In this climax, we get to talk about his bookshelf, and it fast becomes one of my favorite things that's ever happened on How I Write. Enjoy! About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adrian Tchaikovsky came on the show to talk about how he writes fantasy and science fiction. He won the Arthur C. Clarke Award for his book, Children of Time, and has written more than 60 books and novellas. He spends his life thinking about how to make believable worlds and how to build characters that have weight to them. My favorite thing is how he writes a fight scene, how he thinks through the pacing and all the action. If you want to write imaginative stories filled with wonder and fantasy, you're going to like this episode. About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell Elif Shafak has a way of writing that's lush and enchanted. She writes about real things in the world: water, houseboats, ordinary things that we stopped seeing. And she infuses them with life and wonder so that we can see the world fresh again. Elif has written more than 21 books, and she's the president of the Royal Society of Literature, which has had fellows like J. R. R. Tolkien, Rudyard Kipling, W.B. Yeats, and Margaret Atwood. You'll notice that her writing advice is different from what you normally hear. She wants to help you splash your personality onto the page, how to write with soul, and how to unlock your wild imagination to do it day in and day out until you're left with a finished piece of writing. 00:00:00 Introduction 00:02:02 Making small things feel enchanted 00:04:39 How to avoid fake wonder 00:07:22 Elif’s writing routine 00:09:13 Writing at night 00:11:11 How heavy metal helps writing 00:18:07 What makes characters feel real 00:19:55 Fixing a story 00:22:15 Writing like children 00:26:09 Which senses matter most 00:32:32 Taking risks after being successful 00:34:12 Soft vs hard writing 00:38:59 Elif’s editing process 00:43:27 How poetry influences her writing 00:48:30 What English can’t express 00:51:46 Writing as if you’re “drunk” 00:55:04 Why freedom comes first 00:57:04 Lessons from favorite writers 01:06:44 Rumi’s influence 01:10:22 Spirituality vs religion 01:15:07 How cities shape writers 01:17:11 James Baldwin’s influence 01:18:22 Melancholy and humor About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: ⁠⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470⁠⁠ YouTube: ⁠⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel⁠⁠ Spotify: ⁠⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv⁠⁠ X: ⁠⁠https://x.com/david_perell⁠⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Henry Shukman is a poet, author, mindfulness teacher and Zen master. He has studied meditation for 35 years, principally in the Sanbo Zen lineage. His most recent books are Original Love (HarperOne) and the Zen memoir, One Blade of Grass. He is also the co-founder of the acclaimed single-path meditation app, The Way. He has taught at Google, the New York Times, Harvard Business School, and the Institute of American Indian Arts. He has written several award-winning books of poetry and fiction, and his poems have appeared in The New Yorker, Guardian and Sunday Times. He has a degree from Cambridge and an MLitt from St Andrews. Learn more about Henry's latest book, Original Love: https://henryshukman.com/writing/original-love Deepen your meditation with The Way: https://www.thewayapp.com/howiwrite About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Every so often, I'll re-publish some of my favorite How I Write interviews. This classic episode is with Ward Farnsworth, a law professor and former dean at the University of Texas School of Law who has written popular books about clear thinking, language, and philosophy. His books include Classical English Style and works on rhetoric and legal writing. Get 60 days free Readwise Reader at https://readwise.io/davidperell/ Check out Ward's website: http://wardfarnsworth.com/ 00:05:09 Example 1 (King James Bible) 00:07:25 Example 2 (Winston Churchill) 00:12:01 Example 3 (Winston Churchill) 00:15:35 Example 4 (King James Bible) 00:18:34 Example 5 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:23:13 Example 6 (Oliver Wendell Holmes, Jr.) 00:26:56 Classical English Rhetoric 00:27:56 Example 7 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:30:15 Example 8 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:32:04 The only app I use to read articles [Readwise Reader] 00:33:31 Example 9 (Winston Churchill) 00:36:09 Example 10 (Lloyd Bentsen) 00:38:50 Example 11 (JFK) 00:42:16 Example 12 (Abraham Lincoln) 00:43:56 Example 13 (Henry Fielding, Tom Jones) 00:45:48 Example 14 (King James Bible) 00:47:58 The 3 Techniques, explained 00:52:40 Practical advice for everyone 00:56:24 The ideal writing curriculum About the host Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: ⁠https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470⁠ YouTube: ⁠https://www.youtube.com/@DavidPerellChannel⁠ Spotify: ⁠https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv⁠ X: ⁠https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Check out Sublime at https://sublime.app/?ref=perell This episode brings together the moments from How I Write in 2025 that have stayed with me the longest. These are the clips I revisit when I need to be reminded why writing matters. Robert Macfarlane talks about wonder as something you have to actively protect. Jayne Anne Phillips explains why the memories we keep from childhood reveal who we are. Paul Harding makes the case for aiming higher than feels comfortable and learning from the writers who shaped you.Henrik Karlsson shows what it means to really look at the world instead of getting trapped in your own words. Alain de Botton reveals how the news narrows our thinking. Lulu Cheng Meservey talks about writing that feels alive rather than polished to death and Mitch Albom tells a story that shows why storytelling is a craft of emotion as much as technique. And then there is poetry. Dana Gioia and David Whyte both treat poems as part of a life, something to memorize, perform, and return to when everything feels confusing or heavy. This episode is a reminder that writing is not just about words. It is about attention, courage, honesty, and the way we make sense of being alive. Hey! I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. Follow me Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv X: https://x.com/david_perell Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices