How To Be Sad with Helen Russell

  Cally Beaton was working as a senior TV exec until she was 45, when the late great Joan Rivers told her she should try stand-up. So she did. Now a successful comedian – you’ll have seen her on shows like QI and on The Apprentice You’re Fired – Cally’s nonetheless out to challenge the ageism she sees around her in the industry…an industry Cally admits she was a part of creating. She worked on MTV’s The Real World, one of the first reality shows, back in the early 90s and then later on Geordie Shore and Ex on the Beach in previous life as a television executive. She says now: ‘It’s fair to say I was a big part of the problem now biting me in the arse.’ Here, we talk about:   - Ageism - Profound change - Breaking down and building back up - The u-shaped happiness curve - Invisibility - Imposter-offs - Asking for help - …and how there’s no prizes for styling it out   For more of the brilliant Cally, check out her live dates http://callybeaton.com/ and follow her @callybeaton   In this episode, I bang on about Robin Ince’s books again. They’re all brilliant (and he’s interviewed in my latest book, How To Be Sad but the one I’m talking about here is I’m A Joke And So Are You – highly recommend!

My guest today began performing at Oxford with Stewart Lee and Richard Herring. She trained as a solicitor before moving into writing, presenting, acting, stand up and…pretty much everything. She’s won a Chortle Award, she was ‘Fun’ Editor at Tatler, Celebrity Masterchef Champion and – most importantly –runner up at the World Conker championship. Described in the Independent as TV’s Swiss army knife - Emma Kennedy is also the author of a remarkable new book, Letters from Brenda - a painful, funny record of Emma’s relationship with her complex, charismatic mum, Brenda, who died of breast cancer. Revisiting her mother’s letters has also allowed Emma to process a difficult childhood and the letters chart her mother’s struggles with mental health.   TW: suicide, cancer In this episode we talk about: mental health generational trauma acts of service the power of dogs …and Lego …and comedy Letters From Brenda is out now, and you can follow Emma @EmmaKennedy My book, How To Be Sad, the key to a happier life is out in paperback and as an audiobook – and if you enjoyed this episode, give it 5 stars and leave a review and I’ll love you forever.

Sadness happens to all of us, but in much of the world we don’t know how to handle it. Let alone talk about it. Having spent 10 years researching into happiness worldwide as a journalist and author, I began to notice that many of the people I met were so obsessed with the pursuit of happiness that they were phobic of feeling sad. As was I.    So why are we so bad at ‘sad’?  How is there still shame around expressing vulnerability?  And are there some any ‘good’ things about being sad?   I couldn’t find anywhere people were having these kinds of conversations - so I started my own.    Each episode, I’m joined by a special guest sharing their own experiences of how to be sad, well with insightful and surprisingly uplifting stories of lives lived. Here are some of the highlights so far, ahead of series five, launching next week: - From S3E8 with Kate Bowler, NYT bestselling author and Duke history professor on being diagnosed with colon cancer at just 35 years old, navigating life with the knowledge it could end any moment, ‘emotional tourism’, bucket lists and why Kate won’t be making one. TW: cancer -  From S1E7 with Yomi Adegoke, award-winning journalist and bestselling co-author of Slay In Your Lane: The Black Girl Bible on how being sad and expressing grief can be political and the perils of performing our emotions online. - From S4E1 with Emily Dean, author of Everyone Died So I Got A Dog, radio presenter and podcaster on family roles and the different pressures these bring. - From S4E2 where bestselling author Mitch Albom shares a little known story about how the bestseller Tuesdays With Morrie came about. - From S3E5 with Dr Julie Smith, clinical psychologist and former NHS turned TikTok star and author of Why Has Nobody Told Me This Before? on what happens when we push emotions away, how the stakes get higher the longer we stay in ‘the trap’, and what we should be doing instead. -  From S2E5 with Jody Day, founder of Gateway Women, the global support network for childless women on unhelpful cultural ideas around not having children, disenfranchised grief and how to heal it. TW: grief, childlessness not by choice, IVF  - From S4E1 with Emily Dean, on how to support someone who’s grieving. TW: sibling bereavement - From S1E4 with Mo Gawdat, Solve For Happy author, tech entrepreneur and former chief business officer for Google X on how life is like a video game (and this is A Good Thing). TW: losing a child - From S4E2 Mitch Albom on the pain of losing his daughter and the impact this had on his marriage. Plus why happiness isn’t a guarantee: it’s a gift that can help us to be sad, better. TW: losing a child You can find all the books we talk about on the How To Be Sad podcast recommends page at Bookshop.org where you can also find the book, How To Be Sad, now in paperback. Keep in touch @MsHelenRussell and subscribe to join us next time. Because remember: we’re all in this together.

When writer, radio presenter and podcaster Emily Dean lost her sister to cancer, her world caved in. Within three years, both her parents had died too. She felt as though she’d never be able to move on with such grief – but then along came a shih tzu called Ray and some surprising ways to keep going and find joy again. Emily is a total delight to spend time with, as well as warm, wise and hilarious – as listeners of her radio show with Frank Skinner will know. Here, we talk about: - Unusual upbringings and family roles - ‘Being’ versus ‘seeming’ - survivors guilt and limitless grief - how to support someone who’s grieving - running away from sadness … and how to sit with it - therapy and The Hoffman Process - writing her own story   Read Emily’s brilliant book, Everyone Died So I Got A Dog and follow Emily on Instagram @emilyrebeccadean or Twitter @Divine_Miss_Em Follow Helen @MsHelenRussell and the book, How To Be Sad, is out in paperback January 20th available to pre-order now. Thanks to Joel Grove for production and Matt Clacher at HarperCollins. Reviews really help others find us and help us to make more episodes – and you can email the show with any issues you’d like us to cover or guests you’d like to hear more of on howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com

Kate Bowler is a NYT bestselling author; history professor; and ‘an incurable optimist’. Host of the podcast Everything Happens, her TED talk has more than six million views and her book, No Cure for Being Human is a must-read for anyone wanting to find out more about how to be sad, well. When Kate was just 35 years old, thriving in her career and mother to a very young son, she was diagnosed with incurable colon cancer. This forced her to completely recalibrate and focus in on the things that really mattered: what it means to live life well – particularly when you find you’re approaching its end – sharing the impact that her diagnosis had on her relationship, career, parenting, faith and all the everyday stuff that many of us take for granted. Here, we talk about: navigating life with the knowledge it could end any moment what to say and what not to say financial pressures ‘emotional tourism’ faith and loss bucket lists and why Kate won’t be making one how some pain is just for no reason …but life’s still beautiful Follow Kate on Instagram or Twitter @KatecBowler and check out No Cure for Being Human. Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell The book, How To Be Sad is out now in North America and the UK. Thanks to Joel Grove for production and Matt Clacher at HarperCollins. If you enjoy the show, do leave a review – it really helps us to be able to make more podcasts.

Today’s guest is Joshua Becker – author, philanthropist, pastor and minimalist.  After a personal epiphany, Becker found that when he began owning less, he had more time. He also had more focus, less stress, fewer distractions and more freedom. Because, he says, ‘every added possession increases the worry in our lives.’ Today, he has two million followers at Becoming Minimalist; he’s the author of five bestselling books; and he’s here today to share his insights about how to be sad, well – and live with less.    Here, we talk: unhelpful motivations (& sibling rivalry) the misconceptions about minimalism Joshua vs TV The Hope Effect Restoring sanity to gift giving Decluttering our goals and habits   Follow Joshua on Instagram or Twitter @joshua_becker, visit becomingminimalist.com and hopeeffect.com Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell The book, How To Be Sad is out now in North America and the UK. Thanks to Joel Grove for production and Matt Clacher at HarperCollins. If you enjoy the show, do leave a review – it really helps us to be able to make more podcasts.

Holly Tucker MBE is an entrepreneur, philanthropist, and UK Ambassador for Creative Small Businesses. She’s the founder of notonthehighstreet.com and Holly & Co, a small business advice and inspiration platform and she’s also a podcaster and co-author of two best-selling business books as well as the brand new Do What You Love. Holly is a famously positive, colourful, fabulous force of nature, but life wasn’t always so sunny - and a future in business was far from a shoo-in. She got an E in business studies at school, was divorced aged 23, battled a brain tumour, endured a near break down, and has found herself on the brink financially more than once. But now, Holly says: ‘these moments have taught me everything - and I’m sure that my future is built on the scaffolding of these failures.’ In this episode, Holly and Helen talk about: ‘Hurricaine Holly’ and the highs and lows of living at full pelt Divorce and a brain tumour diagnosis in her 20s Building a different relationship the next time around How a vegetable wreath saved her life Parenting and guilt Burnout versus the philosophy of Francis Bacon Pulling on the handbrake Trying to smell the roses (and go to Ibiza) Scars, vulnerability and the upside of imposter syndrome Why financial education is a feminist issue   Follow Holly on Instagram @hollytucker, on Twitter @notonthehighst or Facebook @hollytuckerandco and find out more about Do What You Love Follow Helen on social media @MsHelenRussell How To Be Sad, the book, is out now. Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Steph Douglas is a businesswoman, mother of three, wife of Doug, and founder of the thoughtful gift company she started after realising that sometimes - when we’re in need of a pick me up - we might not want another thing we have to look after.   Steph has a dedicated Instagram following thanks to hilarious and occasionally heart-breaking posts about family life, her husband’s cancer treatment and the strains of running a business.  She’s a fellow firm believer that being more honest and vulnerable makes things better for everyone and says: ‘As hard and lonely as it has been at times, I’ve slowly realised there’s nothing unique about my experience. It only takes a few random conversations … and you quickly find that most of us feel the same.’   In this episode, Steph and Helen talk about: Cancer diagnosis and treatment So called body positivity movement and eating disorders The three day cycle Cancer diagnosis and treatment Parenthood Work stress and burnout The struggle to look after our mental health Redirecting our wasted capacity   Trigger: eating disorders, cancer Find out more about Steph on her blog Sisterhood (And All That) at Don’t Buy Her Flowers or follow Steph on Instagram @steph_dontbuyherflowers Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.  

Yomi Adegoke is an award-winning journalist; columnist for Vogue and The Guardian; and bestselling author of Slay In Your Lane: The Black Girl Bible - written with her best friend, Elizabeth Uviebinené, based on interviews with 39 successful Black British women, packed full of data, advice and inspiration. In 2020 Yomi and Elizabeth published Loud Black Girls - an anthology of Black British writing. As someone who has consistently written about race and racism, Yomi is a guiding voice for many young Black women. She’s also a source of inspiration, clarity and integrity for everyone else. In this episode, Yomi talks to Helen about: Painting, hobbies and culture as cure How being sad and expressing grief can be political Racism, injustice and why diversity within diversity matters The perils of performing our emotions online Homesickness, class and family ties Experiencing depression and advice to her younger self   Find out more about Slay In Your Lane at www.slayinyourlane.com and follow Yomi on Twitter @yomiadegoke, on Instagram @yomi.adegoke or on Facebook @YomiAdegokeWriter  Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Helen Thorn is an award winning stand-up comedian, writer and podcaster – one-half of comedy double act Scummy Mummies and co-host of the UK’s number one parenting podcast as well as the body positivity podcast, Fat Lot Of Good.   Here, Helen talks about her marriage ending in lockdown, the shock of the loss, the fallout and its impact on her family. This is a surprisingly upbeat episode and I promise you, it’s impossible not to feel better after talking to Helen.   In this episode, the Helens chat about: Going through a divorce Reimagining your future What helps …what doesn’t How to be sad, when you’re usually ‘the happy person’ In defence of humour as a defence mechanism Why Helen would much rather make 10 lasagnes than receive one The power of Tina Arena’s “Chains” as a sad-soundtrack …and the wisdom of Unikitty   (Sidebar: Helen R misquotes Nora Ephron at one point – for which she apologises profusely. OF COURSE, Queen Nora ACTUALLY wrote ‘everything is copy’ not ‘content’. Helen R has clearly been on social media too much this week…)   Follow Helen Thorn on Instagram @helenwearsasize18. Find out more about the Scummy Mummies at www.scummymummies.com and follow them on Twitter and Instagram @scummymummies or Facebook @scummymummiespodcast Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Cathy Rentzenbrink is a bestselling author, former editor at The Bookseller magazine and head of Quick Reads – short books to encourage adults who may not be readers. Because as Cathy believes: ‘After the wheel, the book must be one of the great inventions' since books are ‘a life raft’ - something Cathy has needed, more than once.   When she was 17, her younger brother was hit by a car. After the accident, he was in a so-called permanent vegetative state and the family had to endure eight years before they could have a funeral and fully grieve.   In this episode, Cathy talks to Helen about: Growing up with grief Sibling survivors The experience of panic attacks, anxiety and depression How therapy and EMDR can help Divorce and doing things differently in relationships Parenting and how to do it (neither of us have quite figured this out yet) Keeping going Practical advice for sad times …and ways to make life meaningful.   Trigger: bereavement, assisted dying   Find out more about Cathy’s work at https://cathyreadsbooks.com/ and follow Cathy on Twitter and Instagram @CatRentzenbrink or Facebook. Cathy’s debut novel, Everyone Is Still Alive, is out in July. Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Mo Gawdat of Solve For Happy is a tech entrepreneur, engineer, and former chief business officer for Google X - the “moonshot” factory tackling the world’s toughest problems in innovative ways.   Mo reached a place early in life where he was extremely successful, yet deeply unhappy. He set about solving this, developing an equation for happiness. But this was put to the ultimate test in 2014 when Mo’s beloved son Ali died unexpectedly. During the grief that followed, Mo channelled his heartbreak in an unlikely way – by writing about his happy-algorithm.   Here, Mo talks to Helen about:   How an algorithm for happiness helped him handle his sadness Why being happy doesn’t mean never experiencing pain – and loss is part of life Differentiating between ‘sadness’ and ‘unhappiness’ The usefulness of fear and loneliness How everything is good and bad What other cultures can teach us about sadness The link between technology and unhappiness The power of unconditional love …and why ‘life is a game – we just have to play it’.   Trigger: bereavement   (Sidebar: if it sounds as though Helen’s choking up at one point, that’s because she is. Speaking to Mo can do that, in a good way. Goal for 2021: make it through a chat with Mo without welling up…) Find out more about Mo’s equation for happiness and follow Mo on Twitter , Instagram and YouTube. Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Today is publication day for Helen’s new book How to be Sad. As a special thank you to listeners of the podcast we are delighted to share this exclusive extract from the audiobook. We will be back with a new episode of How to Be Sad with Helen Russell next week.   We live in an age when reality TV shows climax in a tearful finale. But feeling sad – genuinely sad – is still taboo. Yet, sadness happens to us all, sometimes in heartbreakingly awful ways. If we don’t know how to be sad, it can be isolating for those experiencing it and baffling for those trying to help others through dark times. Today, most of us know intellectually that ‘sad’ is normal. But we’re not always brilliant at allowing for it, in practice. Sadness is going to happen, so we might as well know how to ‘do it’ right. And it’s time to start facing our problems and talking about them. Positive psychology may have become more accepted in mainstream culture, but rates of depression have continued to rise. We’re trying so hard to be happy. But studies show that we could all benefit from learning the art of sadness and how to handle it, well. We cannot avoid sadness so we might as well learn to handle it. Helen Russell, while researching  two previous books on happiness,  found that today most of us are terrified of sadness. Many of us are so phobic to averse to negative emotions that we don’t recognise them.   Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones, Amazon or Apple. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Hollie McNish is a poet, writer and Ted Hughes Award-winning author of Nobody Told Me – a collection of poems and stories about raising a child in modern Britain..   Hollie writes with raw honesty, warmth and humour, but as well as great critical and mainstream success, she’s also had her fair share of setbacks and her work articulates perfectly the ‘everyday sadness’ that we all experience.   In this episode, Hollie and Helen chat: Motherhood myths The commercialisation of parenthood The frustrations of modern life Guilt Class and snobbery Online abuse Not belittling our sadness The unexpected freedoms of being a single parent Sting’s next project… …and reframing selfies as ‘the oil paintings of the Tinder age’   Trigger: suicide   Find out more about Hollie’s work here  and follow Hollie on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook and YouTube @holliepoetry   Hollie’s next collection of poetry, Slug, is out in May. Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones or Amazon.  Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Meik Wiking is a Danish happiness researcher, CEO of the Happiness Research Institute, and author of the bestselling Little Book of Hygge.   Meik is committed to researching into how more of us can get happier, but in doing so, he’s also studied what doesn’t make us happier. His latest report studied the impact of the coronavirus on wellbeing and - spoiler alert – it isn’t great. Here, he talks about his experiences of loss and sadness – both personally and professionally.   In this episode, Meik talks to Helen about: The loss of his mum at an early age Why sadness matters The dark side of happiness Comparison anxiety and inequality Imposter syndrome Professional setbacks Living with less Acts of service and the importance of feeling ‘useful’ How to keep on an even keel Finding joy in difficult times   Trigger: suicide, bereavement   Find out more about Meik at https://www.meikwiking.com/ and follow Meik on Twitter and Instagram @MeikWiking or Facebook @meikwiking1 Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones  or Amazon  Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Ella Mills of Deliciously Ella is a champion of plant-based living, an award-winning author, and an adept businesswoman. Here, Ella also opens up about her lows and feeling vulnerable at times - not least where it all began with a debilitating condition that started her quest for change. In this episode, Ella talks to Helen about: Loss Regret Chronic illness Depression Trolling and online abuse Feelings of rejection and how we gravitate towards negative feedback Having a high profile and the challenges that come with it Allowing ourselves to be vulnerable The importance of ‘acceptance’ And how ‘everything passes...even when it feels insurmountable’   Trigger: depression   Find out more about Deliciously Ella https://deliciouslyella.com/ and follow Ella on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @DeliciouslyElla Follow Helen on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How To Be Sad at Waterstones  or Amazon  Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com Thanks to Joel Grove for production and to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins for making this podcast happen.

Why do we cry? How come love hurts? And what’s a happiness researcher doing talking about sadness, anyway? Helen Russell is a journalist and happiness researcher and How to be Sad is a new podcast  based on her book of the same name - exploring why we get sad, what to do when we’re sad, and how we can all get happier by learning to be sad, better. Because let’s be honest – we are in unprecedented times. None of us are where we thought we’d be this time last year and we’re all struggling. We’re having to get better at having difficult conversations and finding ways of handling our sadness. Join Helen as she talks to some high profile people from all walks of life who have done just that. Each week, special guests share their own experiences of everything from heartache to burnout, anxiety to addiction, the differences between sadness and depression - and how they cope. Find out more @MsHelenRussell #HowToBeSad and pre order How To Be Sad at https://harpercollins.co.uk/products/how-to-be-sad-everything-ive-learned-about-getting-happier-by-being-sad-better-helen-russell?variant=32618500653134

To celebrate the publication of How to Raise a Viking and as a special thank you to listeners of the podcast we are delighted to share this exclusive extract from the audiobook.  What do Vikings know about raising children? Turns out, quite a lot… After a decade of living in Denmark and raising a family there, Helen Russell noticed that Nordic children are different. They eat differently. They learn differently. They run, jump and climb out in nature for hours a day, even though the weather is terrible and it's dark October to March. And then they grow up to be some of the happiest adults on the planet. Her question was: how? In How to Raise a Viking, Russell takes a deep dive into the parenting culture of Denmark and the other Nordic nations, from parental leave policies to school structure, screen time, and the surprising customs that lead to happy, well-adjusted humans. This fascinating peek behind the cultural curtain allows readers a glimpse of another world, where babies sleep outside in their prams up to -20°C and pre-schoolers wield axes. Refreshingly funny and unfailingly optimistic about the new generation of humans growing up in the world right now, this is a heart-warming love letter to Russell’s adopted homeland and proof that we could all use a bit more Viking in our lives. Follow Helen on X, Instagram, TikTok and Facebook @MsHelenRussell Read more about Helen’s new book, How to Raise a Viking, and get your copy here. Get in touch with the show at howtobesadpodcast@gmail.com

Julia Samuel MBE is a psychotherapist, grief counsellor, and author of the bestsellers Griefworks, This Too Shall Pass. She was also one of my favourite interviewees for my book, How To Be Sad when we talked about family and relationships. With four children of her own and nine grandchildren, Julia began exploring her own family stories in adulthood and looking at how Every Family Has A Story – the title of her new book. Here, we talk about:   Inherited trauma and why family stories matter Bias and how to overcome it why pain is an agent of change how family teaches us about love attachment theory rupture and repair The pros and cons of Zoom therapy Every Family Has A Story is out now, and you can follow Julia @juliasamuelmbe How To Be Sad, the key to a happier life is out in paperback and as an audiobook, read by me – and if you enjoyed this episode, give it 5 stars and I’ll love you forever. Thanks as ever to Matt Clacher at HarperCollins and Joel Grove for production.

Rosie Wilby is a comedian, podcaster and author of The Breakup Monologues – about the unexpected joy of heartbreak and all we can learn from it. BBC Radio 4 described her as the ‘queen of breakups’ (what an accolade!) so she was the perfect guest for a chat about how to be sad, well. Here, we talk about:   - Break up grief - …but how we get over it twice as quickly as we predict - Friendship breakups - Why divorce rates for gay women are so high - Boredom in long-term relationships - Cheating blackbirds… - SSRIs and ‘anti-love drugs’ - Hormones and attraction - Separate bed stigma - Monogamy: pros and cons - Finding love – and getting married!   Follow Rosie on Twitter @and Instagram @breakupmonologues and check out The Breakup Monologues here. And for more on my own long (long) and illustrious history of disastrous breakups, may I nudge you towards chapters 4 and 6 of How To Be Sad…! As ever, I so appreciate your feedback and reviews so keep them coming. Until next time x