How did it make sense?

'How did it make sense?' explores the local rationality of those involved in doing what they did. Each podcast lasts about 45 mins and aims to follow a similar format. Initially, we will look at the 'first story' which is normally scant in details and triggers an emotional response, and then we will look at the 'second story' that looks at the goal conflicts, the ambiguities, the assumptions, the tensions, and the trade-offs that led to those involved doing what they did. This context-rich story is the one that learning opportunities come from, not focusing on the counterfactuals that often arise from 'first stories'. The goal is to encourage you to look deeper at the socio-technical system presented by the guests and how we can make improvements by abstracting from the multiple domains discussed in the podcast to the our own domains.

Ep.4 - Abhijith Balakrishnan. Crimes of Obedience: Well-meaning auditors in dysfunctional systems

In today’s episode Gareth and Abhijith delve into the complexities of maritime safety, focusing on the audit process and its implications. They discuss the dichotomy between first and second stories in safety management, emphasising how audits often fail to capture the true dynamics of operations at sea. The conversation highlights the challenges faced by auditors, the influence of regulations on safety practices, and the need for a shift towards a more nuanced understanding of safety that goes beyond mere compliance. Abhijith shares insights from his experiences in ship management and safety, advocating for a more holistic approach to auditing that considers the realities of the maritime environment. In this conversation, Abhijith Balakrishnan discusses the challenges and limitations of auditing practices in the maritime industry, emphasising the need for a shift in focus from compliance to understanding the context in which seafarers operate. He highlights the judgmental nature of audits, the lack of innovation due to strict adherence to procedures, and the role of auditors in system improvement. The discussion also touches on the importance of building trust and fostering open communication within organisations, as well as recommending resources for further learning. Links and downloads "Crimes of Obedience: Well-meaning auditors in dysfunctional systems" - Abhi's thesis. The Design Of Everyday Things by Don Norman   “Humble Inquiry” by Edgar Schein  “Turn The Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers Into Leaders” by David Marquet  Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here

11-22
41:32

Ep.3 - Josh Bryant. “You shouldn't have put your hands in there!”

Gareth and Josh Bryant talk through a hand-crush injury. The incident serves as a case study for exploring deeper causes of workplace events and shifting the focus from blaming individuals to understanding systemic factors. Josh details how the company responded to the event by implementing the “4Ds” (what's dumb, what’s difficult, what’s different, and what’s dangerous) as part of their operational learning. Josh emphasises the importance of learning teams, a method they adopted to foster open communication and understand the context behind worker actions. This approach led to a more positive safety culture and a shift from blame to curiosity. He also stresses the importance of safety not being proprietary and the need for sharing best practices. Links and downloads The video that Josh refers to can be found at the end of the YouTube version of this interview here “Humble Inquiry” by Edgar Schein  “Workplace Fatalities, A Failure to Predict” by Conklin.  “Turn The Ship Around!: A True Story of Turning Followers Into Leaders” by David Marquet    Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here

11-15
32:57

Ep.2 - Ron Gantt. “Why did you hit the post box with the garbage truck?”

This episodes features Ron Gantt, HSE Director at Yondr and cohost of the Punk Rock Safety podcast. I and Ron explore how mundane work often masks complex systems with hidden risks. Ron shares his experience with a Midwestern utility company where trash collectors faced unrealistic safety policies, conflicting pressures like speed and customer service, and inadequate training, leading to an unstable and potentially dangerous work environment.   Ron highlights the importance of understanding worker adaptations as indicators of systemic issues and emphasises the need for deep, vertical audits that focus on understanding work as done rather than relying solely on broad compliance-based systems. Links and downloads "The Tragedy of Adaptability" and "Resilience and Precarious Success" both by Robert Wears   Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here  

11-08
44:30

Ep.1 - Jayson Coil. Wildland Firefighting: Don't the contractors understand?!

This episode features a conversation with Jayson Coil, an Assistant Fire Chief and incident commander. Coil discusses the importance of understanding the “local rationality” or how seemingly irrational decisions made by people in complex situations often make sense within their own context. Jayson explains how the lack of personnel in critical support roles like logistics and planning, often due to competing demands from their primary employers, presents a significant challenge to wildfire management. Finally, Jayson highlights the importance of learning from past experiences, particularly by sharing tacit knowledge gained through experience and avoiding the tendency to simply attribute outcomes to luck or skill. Jayson Coil Jayson Coil is the Assistant Fire Chief and Paramedic for Sedona Fire District with over 25 years of experience. His career began as a Combat Engineer (Airborne) in the U.S. Army, and he has since held numerous roles in fire service, including Captain, Battalion Chief, and Interim Fire Chief. With 20+ years on a National Type 1 Incident Management Team, he has responded to 97 disasters across 17 states. He holds a Master’s in Leadership focused on Disaster Preparedness and is pursuing a Ph.D. in Performance Psychology. Coil is recognized for leadership development, decision-making, and his work in public health. He lives near Flagstaff, Arizona, and enjoys photography, hunting, and backpacking. Links and downloads Left of Bang. In Left of Bang, authors Patrick Van Horne and Jason A. Riley explore the development of "combat profiling"—a proactive strategy to identify and mitigate potential threats based on the recognition of behavioral patterns. The skills outlined allow individuals not only to foresee dangers in military operations, but also in civilian environments. Cynefin Framework. The Cynefin Framework was developed to help leaders understand their challenges and to make decisions in context. By distinguishing different domains (the subsystems in which we operate), it recognises that our actions need to match the reality we find ourselves in through a process of sense-making. Interpersonal Skills - Discovery of Nexus Applied Critical Thinking. Effective Direction. Bespoke consultancy focusing on developing the skills associated with Applied Critical Thinking UK Ministry of Defence Red Teaming Handbook US Army Handbook of Applied Critical Thinking Aircrews, Rules and the Bogeyman: Mapping the Benefits and Fears of Non-compliance - Leonie Boskeljon-Horst. Although rules support people while executing tasks, they are not the same as work-as-done. It can be impossible to follow the rules and finish the job at the same time. In this study, the objective is to better understand the stakes and interests that lie behind retaining gaps between work-as-prescribed and work-as-done, mapping the benefits and fears of noncompliance    Human in the System  Transforming teams. Unlocking human potential. Using principles from Human Factors (HF), High-Reliability Organisations (HRO), and Human and Organisational Performance (HOP), we develop and deliver highly immersive and impactful programmes using the High-Velocity Learning LAB (HVLL) concept. We give you the know-how, the tools and the support to make results stick and empower your people to achieve the extraordinary. We help you answer the question "How do we uncover those hidden stories in our organisation?" Contact us here  

11-01
50:06

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