Humans of Martech

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Amrita Mathur, VP of Marketing at ClickUp.Summary: Building a brand from zero is all about diving deep into what makes your audience tick and tailoring your messages to hit just right. Amrita digs into this, stressing the gold in blending hard data with your gut in order to spot what truly connects. It’s not about the immediate wins; it’s hunting for those less obvious cues that hint you’re on to something. When it comes to team-building, she’s clear: bring on board folks who are curious, the ones who ask all of the questions and are unafraid of constructive criticism. For Amrita, the secret sauce to thriving in marketing, beyond all the strategy and insights, boils down to enjoying the ride and the people you’re with, transforming work from a mere grind to an adventure worth every second.About AmritaAmrita kicked off her career at a startup in Toronto that was later acquired by OpenText, there she wore many different marketing hats, and later progressed to Redknee as Product Marketing ManagerShe briefly shifted to customer success at Jonas Software, concentrating on customer growth and retention and later returned to product marketing at Toronto Region Board of TradeShe then became Director of Marketing at PriceMetrix/McKinsey, where she led marketing planning and team hiringShe also led Demand Marketing at Vision Critical where she focused on go-to-market strategies, demand generation, and martechAmrita then moved over to Top Hat as Vice President overseeing Demand Generation, Marketing Operations & GrowthShen then joined a startup called Konsus founded by two Norwegian entrepreneurs who secured seed funding from Sam Altman and the Slack Fund. There she led the rebrand of the company to Superside and built a team that helped the startup grow from 0 to $4M in year 1 and reach $60M by year 4Finally, Amrita has recently joined San Diego-based ClickUp, the popular productivity platform valued at over $4B, known best for their SuperBowl ad or their music albumThe Myth of the Ivory Tower in Tech LeadershipAmrita’s journey at ClickUp shatters the common myth of the ‘ivory tower’ often associated with leadership roles in substantial tech enterprises. Despite the company’s impressive valuation and extensive team, she emphasizes a hands-on approach that defies traditional expectations. At ClickUp, there’s no detachment between the upper management and the operational workforce; instead, the organization champions a flat hierarchy. This structure not only promotes visibility across all levels but also encourages direct involvement in operational tasks, regardless of one’s title.The ethos at ClickUp, as Amrita describes, mirrors what’s often referred to as the ‘Stripe model’—a reference to Stripe’s renowned flat organizational structure. This approach ensures that despite rapid growth, the company maintains an environment where every individual, from interns to VPs, is expected to dive deep into the minutiae of their work. It’s a testament to the belief that understanding and engaging with the details are paramount to effectiveness. ClickUp’s CEO reinforces this by advocating for a culture where being ‘in the details’ is not just encouraged but required.This philosophy stands in stark contrast to what Amrita experienced towards the end of her tenure at Superside, where she could afford to step back, confident in her team’s ability to manage without her direct oversight. At ClickUp, the scenario is vastly different. The expectation to remain operationally involved means leadership roles are as much about rolling up your sleeves and getting your hands dirty as they are about strategic oversight.The ClickUp model demonstrates a pivotal shift in how companies view leadership and organizational structure. It challenges the notion that senior positions are synonymous with distance from the day-to-day operations, highlighting the importance of a collaborative and transparent work environment. This approach not only ensures that leaders remain grounded and connected to their team’s work but also fosters a culture of accountability and shared responsibility.Key takeaway: At ClickUp, success is found not in the isolation of leadership roles but in their integration within the operational fabric of the company. This model serves as a compelling blueprint for marketers: to stay relevant and effective, immerse yourself in the granular aspects of your work, foster transparency, and maintain a willingness to engage across all levels of the organization.Choosing Between Testing and Informed Decision-MakingAmrita sheds light on a prevalent misconception in the marketing world: the notion that every decision should be subjected to testing. This idea, while rooted in the desire to make data-driven decisions, often becomes a stumbling block, delaying action and fostering indecision. With ClickUp’s significant web traffic and signup volumes, one might assume an endless capacity for testing. However, Amrita points out that this isn’t always the most effective approach. Traffic isn’t uniformly distributed across all initiatives, necessitating a more discerning strategy for deciding what to test and what decisions can be made based on informed hypotheses.For instance, the launch of ClickUp’s AI product, Click AppBrain, presented a scenario with zero initial traffic, making traditional A/B testing impractical at the outset. Instead, ClickUp opted for a bold approach, deviating from conventional landing page norms to create something distinctive and engaging. This strategy, as Amrita describes, is about ‘zagging’ when others ‘zig’, striving for uniqueness in a crowded marketplace. The success of their unconventional approach is evident in the substantial interest generated for their launch event, demonstrating that not all marketing initiatives need to be prefaced by rigorous testing.Amrita’s philosophy extends to broader marketing decisions, where not everything falls neatly into the ‘testing’ bucket. Certain endeavors, like sponsoring a podcast, defy straightforward measurement. The decision to proceed often hinges on understanding the audience and trusting the medium’s reach rather than on direct testing outcomes. This highlights the importance of leveraging different marketing disciplines to create compelling campaigns that might not initially lend themselves to A/B testing but are nevertheless rooted in strategic thinking.The approach to testing at ClickUp underlines a crucial balance between data-driven decision-making and intuitive marketing strategies. While A/B testing remains a valuable tool for optimizing conversions and understanding user behavior, Amrita’s insights remind us that marketing’s artistry lies in knowing when to rely on data and when to trust in creativity and market understanding.Key takeaway: Marketers should focus on cultivating an ability to discern which initiatives require validation through testing and which can advance based on informed hypotheses and innovative thinking. This approach not only streamlines decision-making but also encourages creativity and differentiation in a competitive landscape.Optimizing for Velocity of Learning in Early-Stage MarketingIn the formative stages of Superside, Amrita encountered the challenge many startups face: limited traffic and the pressure to demonstrate growth through experimentation. Instead of focusing solely on the quantity of tests, the emphasis was placed on the ‘velocity of learning,’ a concept introduced by her CEO. This shift in perspective, from quantitative to qualitative insights, paved the way for a more flexible and insightful approach to growth.

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Mauro Figueiredo, a global Digital Transformation and MarTech leader (and Innovator). Summary: Mauro walked us through his blueprint for building multifaceted teams equipped with technical, emotional, and strategic competencies. We emphasized the significance of identifying martech talent through self-awareness and curiosity, and how these traits play a crucial role in navigating the integration of martech with analytics and AI. We also focused on leveraging AI in marketing and the dangerous messaging of Co-Pilot’s Superbowl ad. By fostering a culture of continuous learning and cross-functional collaboration, marketers can unlock new opportunities in AI and ensure their strategies align with business goals for impactful outcomes.About MauroMauro spent the first 6 years of his career focusing on CRM and marketing automation for various gambling and casino companies across the UK and MaltaHe worked as a Senior CRM Manager at Sony Computer Entertainment focused on growing PlayStation game launches including Uncharted 4, Playstation VR and several live eventsHe later had short advisory stints at a business aviation company and a booking marketplace startupHe then joined Europe’s largest gaming publisher – Gameforge as their Head of CRM where he led multichannel campaigns that spanned across 400M+ usersHe then made the mage move to JPMorgan Chase as Executive Director of CRM where he built the CRM department from the ground upMost recently he’s moved to APAC Vietnam to be Director of Martech and Center of Excellence at a regional financial institutionA Blueprint for Building Effective Martech TeamsWhen constructing a Martech team, the approach should be tailored, recognizing that the company's size and the team's maturity significantly influence the team's structure and dynamics. Mauro's method begins with a clear understanding of the project's scope, the technologies required to address the business challenge, and the delivery of tangible business value. Identifying the necessary hard skills is just the initial step; the blend of technological prowess and customer-centric focus forms the foundation of a capable team.Equally crucial to hard skills, however, is the team members' attitude and characteristics. Mauro emphasizes the importance of adaptability and resilience, qualities that enable team members to navigate through the inevitable changes in project scope, technology, and industry trends. The ability to shift modes from discovery to definition and then to implementation, all while remaining open to adjustments, is essential. This flexibility is not just about coping with changes but thriving amidst them, ensuring the team's effectiveness and the project's success.The journey from the inception of a Martech project to its completion involves various phases, each demanding a different mindset and set of capabilities. The selection of team members who possess a well-rounded skill set, blending technical knowledge with a customer and experience obsession, is vital. Moreover, prioritizing soft skills and personality traits such as resilience and adaptability ensures the team can withstand and adapt to unforeseen challenges.Key takeaway: Building a winning Martech team requires more than just technical expertise. Invest in cross-training within your Martech team to ensure every member can handle multiple aspects of projects. This not only enhances team flexibility but also prepares each marketer for future roles in an ever-changing landscape.Interview Tips for Identifying Future Martech StarsSpotting the next Martech superstar hinges not just on evaluating their resume but on assessing their emotional intelligence (EQ) and problem-solving capabilities. Mauro shares that beyond the standard assessment of a candidate's career achievements, he delves into how they've navigated specific situations, tasks, actions, and results, adhering to the STAR model. This method uncovers not just what the candidate has done but how they've approached challenges and contributed to their team's success.After vetting a candidate's professional skills and understanding their career trajectory, Mauro shifts the focus towards EQ. He employs a unique set of questions designed to reveal how candidates perceive themselves and how they believe others perceive them. Asking candidates to describe themselves in four words and then to reflect on how their friends might describe them serves a dual purpose. It not only provides insights into the candidate's self-awareness but also opens a window into their personality and motivations.This approach to interviewing goes beyond traditional methods, allowing leaders to gain a deeper understanding of a candidate's interpersonal skills and how they relate to others. Such questions can surprise candidates, prompting them to think more deeply about themselves and how they interact with the world around them. The disparity, or lack thereof, between self-perception and external perception can be telling, revealing traits that are crucial for roles requiring high levels of collaboration and adaptability.Mauro's method exemplifies a comprehensive approach to identifying potential team members who are not just technically proficient but also emotionally intelligent and adept at navigating complex social dynamics. This balanced assessment strategy ensures that the Martech stars of the future are well-rounded individuals capable of contributing to a team's success on multiple levels.Key takeaway: Enhance your interview readiness by preparing to showcase not only your technical skills and professional achievements but also your emotional intelligence and self-awareness. Reflect on how you've tackled past challenges using the STAR method and consider how you perceive yourself versus how others might see you. This preparation can set you apart in interviews, demonstrating your depth as a candidate and your potential as a future Martech leader.Valuing Curiosity in Martech RecruitmentCuriosity is a fundamental trait for anyone in marketing. Mauro sheds light on its importance, emphasizing the ability to anticipate, inquire, and delve deeper into the unknowns is what sets apart the outstanding from the ordinary.Demonstrating curiosity during the hiring process can significantly impact a candidate's appeal. Mauro suggests going the extra mile by researching the company beyond the surface-level information available online. Engaging with employees or connections related to the company can provide deeper insights and demonstrate a genuine interest in the role and the organization. This proactive approach signals to the interviewer that the candidate is insightful, eager to learn, and prepared to engage with the team and its objectives on a profound level.Asking thoughtful and unconventional questions during an interview is another method to exhibit curiosity. It's not just about the questions themselves but the thought process that led to them. This indicates a candidate's ability to think critically and their desire to understand the rationale behind decisions and strategies. Such interactions reveal a person's inclination to explore and expand their knowledge base, crucial in a field where adaptation and innovation are key.Curiosity is the engine of personal and professional development, prompting individuals to question, learn, and innovate continuously.Key takeaway: Encourage and demonstrate curiosity by researching extensively, connecting with company insiders, and asking insightful questions during interviews. The goal is to showcase your proactive approach to learning and adapting. This trait not only enhances your a...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Abby Gailey, Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health. Summary: Abby walks us through the complicated marketing ops world of B2B2C healthcare SaaS, emphasizing a move from sales-centric to engagement-focused martech. We dive into curiosity and continuous learning, using tools like webhooks to blend digital and physical marketing effectively. Quality assurance through negative checklists and professional growth through mentorship and communities are key themes for future proofing your martech career. Abby simplifies success in martech: blend innovation with teamwork, and balance your professional and personal life.About AbbyAbby started her career in arts administration in regional, non-profit theaters She moved over to academic conference production, where she later pivoted to a marketing and comms role and got her first taste of martechShe later worked as a Marketing Manager at Human Kinetics where she wore a variety of hatsShe moved over to Wolfram an enterprise tech company where she started as a product marketing analyst but later pivoted to marketing ops where she took ownership of Iterable and other martechToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Vibrent Health – the leading platform for precision medicine research – where she leads a team that works in email, SMS, push and direct mailNavigating Martech in a B2B2C SaaS ModelAbby sheds light on the unique challenges and opportunities of managing martech operations within a B2B2C business model, particularly in a sector as sensitive and regulated as healthcare research. At Vibrant Health, Abby's role straddles the line between serving business clients and engaging end users in medical studies. Her experience is notably distinct from the traditional B2B or B2C marketing roles, often dominated by discussions around lead generation, MQLs, and SQLs. Abby’s work involves partnering with prestigious institutions like the Dana Farber Cancer Institute and the National Institutes of Health, utilizing their platform to facilitate crucial medical research.The essence of her work emphasizes engagement and enablement over direct revenue generation, a departure from the revenue-centric focus seen in many marketing operations roles. This divergence stems from the regulatory landscape of healthcare, demanding precision and adherence to stringent guidelines in communications. Abby's toolkit is unique, relying less on mainstream martech solutions like Marketo or Salesforce, and more on specialized tools that cater to direct engagement through emails, SMS, and direct mail.Abby's perspective underscores a broader theme in martech: the necessity of tailoring marketing operations to the specific needs and regulations of the industry and business model. While mainstream conversations in martech often gravitate towards lead generation and sales enablement, Abby's experience highlights the importance of engagement and enablement in scenarios where direct revenue generation is not the primary focus.Key Takeaway: Abby's experience at Vibrant Health highlights the significance of customizing martech strategies to fit the unique requirements of a B2B2C business model in a regulated industry. The focus shifts from revenue generation to precise engagement and adherence to regulations, underscoring the need for specialized tools and approaches beyond the conventional sales-centric martech solutions.Driving Engagement in Highly Regulated IndustriesUnlike many marketers whose performance metrics revolve around revenue generation, Abby's focus is on engagement — a critical component in the context of medical research. This pivot away from revenue-centric metrics allows her team to concentrate on the effectiveness of communication strategies that encourage participation in health studies, which is paramount for the success of their projects.Her work involves navigating a complex landscape of HIPAA and governmental regulations, making her tasks not just about engagement, but also about compliance. Abby points out the similarities between challenges faced in healthcare marketing and those in other tightly regulated sectors like FinTech, highlighting the creative and nuanced approaches required to provide value within these constraints. Despite these challenges, Abby sees significant opportunities to impact user engagement and support the overarching goals of research and funding.Abby’s work underscores the importance of engagement in the success of healthcare research, where the actions of participants directly contribute to the progress and outcomes of studies. Her approach offers insights into the broader potential for marketing operations to support and enable core business functions beyond direct revenue generation, especially in sectors where regulatory compliance plays a significant role.Key takeaway: Marketers in regulated industries can leverage creative engagement strategies to drive participation and compliance, highlighting the value of focusing on outcomes beyond direct revenue. Abby's approach underscores the importance of tailoring marketing efforts to meet the unique challenges and opportunities of highly regulated fields.Cultivating Curiosity in Martech ProfessionalsCuriosity isn't just a trait; it's a fundamental skill for anyone navigating martech. Abby champions the idea of curiosity as the driving force behind learning and innovation in martech. She equates curiosity to the eagerness to press a button just to see what happens, a simple yet profound analogy for the exploratory mindset required in this field.This approach to technology and problem-solving isn't about reckless experimentation but embodies a deeper, more meaningful engagement with the tools and strategies at one’s disposal. Abby highlights the importance of continuous learning, whether through webinars about new features or strategies to enhance user engagement. The martech landscape is perpetually evolving, with an endless array of tools emerging. Staying ahead, or at least keeping pace, demands a proactive attitude toward learning and experimentation.Abby's method underscores an essential truth about martech: its dynamism is not a challenge but an opportunity for those willing to explore and learn. This mindset transforms potential obstacles into puzzles to be solved, making the work engaging and rewarding. Her favorite activities for skill acquisition—such as attending webinars and exploring new features—illustrate practical ways professionals can cultivate their curiosity.Key takeaway: Regularly engage with webinars and hands-on experimentation with new martech tools to sharpen your problem-solving skills and keep pace with industry innovations.The Value of Hands-On Learning in Marketing OperationsThere's a unique value placed on hands-on, experiential learning in MOPs. Abby emphasizes how on-the-job training surpasses traditional education for practical skill acquisition in the martech field. Abby’s journey, like many in our field, showcases the immense benefits of diving directly into the tools and systems that define the industry and learning through direct interaction and problem-solving.This method of learning isn't just about understanding how a particular platform operates; it extends to grasping the soup of data flows, system integrations, and the art of engaging end-users in meaningful ways. Abby highlights the importance of facing real-world challenges—those specific to a company’s vertical and the common hurdles encountered with tech systems. This hands-on approach cultivates a problem-solving mindset, essenti...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Stephen Stouffer, VP, Digital Transformation & Innovation at SaaScend.Summary: Stephen shares practical and innovative examples of combining AI tools with iPaaS tools to do things like parsing email auto-responses and subcontracting tech support questions from family members. He’s a fan of starting simple, gradually advancing to more complex solutions, all while maintaining a keen focus on ethical considerations and human interaction. We also cover growth potentials of having a stint in the agency world, is martech really for engineers and the benefits of thinking of emails like billboards on the highway. About StephenStephen started his career as a web developer before moving to a marketing analyst role where he got his first taste of marketing and sales alignment as well as marketing automationThis led him to a Marketing Automation Migration Manager role at Cheshire Impact where he managed over 25 platform migrations in less than a yearHe then worked in-house at a few software companies including iDonate, Thryv as well as FireMon – a security policy management platform where he served as Sr Manager of Marketing Operations and led all the magic behind each GTM programMost recently, Stephen’s returned to his agency roots as VP of Digital Transformation and Innovation at SaaScend – a 20-person revenue operations agencyAutomating Parental Tech Support with AIStephen's journey into automating tech support for his mom using AI showcases a blend of ingenuity and practicality. Faced with an array of tech-related questions from his mother, from resetting routers to converting recipes into different metric units, he sought a solution that could offer simple, direct answers without the clutter of search engine results. Recognizing the ease with which texting comes to his parents compared to navigating the internet, Stephen ingeniously integrated Twilio with GPT, leveraging Tray.io as the intermediary. This setup allows text messages to transform into queries for OpenAI's API, which then sends back clear, useful responses.The beauty of this system lies in its simplicity and effectiveness. By funneling questions through a familiar medium—text messaging—Stephen's mom can now access a wealth of information at her fingertips. Whether she's looking for new restaurant suggestions after moving to a new area or needs quick answers for her culinary adventures, the AI assistant provides concise, relevant information. This approach not only empowers his mother to find information independently but also maintains their daily communication, highlighting the importance of family connections amidst technological solutions.Key Takeaway: Stephen's inventive use of AI for handling his mother's tech support inquiries demonstrates the transformative potential of integrating simple technologies to solve everyday challenges. This strategy not only streamlines the process of obtaining information but also enriches the user's experience by delivering tailored answers through a preferred communication channel.Making Use of Email Auto-responses with ChatGPT and Tray.ioStephen's presentation at Dreamforce was a bold exploration of AI's potential in streamlining email management, a topic ripe with complexities and nuances. Opting for the risky path of live demos, he engaged his audience directly, inviting them to submit various types of emails into an open text field. Utilizing Tray.io as his iPaas tool of choice, these inputs were then processed through OpenAI's API to classify the emails and execute appropriate actions based on their nature—whether setting up follow-up tasks, unsubscribing contacts, or updating records in Salesforce and Pardot.This daring demonstration not only showcased the practical applications of AI in automating mundane tasks but also ignited discussions on data compliance and ethical considerations in AI usage. Stephen's session highlighted the efficiency and adaptability of AI in handling massive volumes of email responses, providing a glimpse into the future of digital communication management. The success of this live demo, buoyed by flawless internet connectivity, underscored the reliability and transformative power of AI in enhancing operational processes within the tech ecosystem.Stephen's process for integrating auto-responses from email clients into GPT is remarkably straightforward. By designating a reply-to address in your automation platform, all auto-responses are directed to a specific inbox. From there you create a forwarding rule for all incoming emails in that inbox to another address provided by Tray.io. This address acts as an endpoint, channeling the email content directly into the iPaas tool for processing. From there you can prompt ChatGPT by bringing in the payload of those individual emails.Despite the simplicity of this setup, Stephen cautions about the volume of data being handled, highlighting the importance of managing the flow to ensure accuracy in parsing and prompt building. This method not only simplifies the initial step of data collection but also underscores the intricacies involved in refining AI to perform nuanced tasks like accurately unsubscribing contacts.Key Takeaway: Stephen's Dreamforce presentation exemplified the innovative use of AI in automating useful tasks that are often left behind because of the manual nature. His live demo reinforced the potential of AI to transform mundane operational tasks into automated, intelligent workflows, setting a precedent for future applications in business and technology.Unveiling the Early Stages of AI in Marketing OperationsStephen's insights into the maturity of the martech market, particularly regarding the integration of AI into marketing operations, highlight a crucial phase of development that many professionals are navigating. His observations, shared after captivating the audience at Dreamforce, shed light on the novelty and potential of AI to revolutionize marketing practices. Stephen emphasizes that we are at the beginning of this journey, with much of the excitement and innovation concentrated in regions like North America, notably ahead of other areas such as Europe and Australia. This disparity showcases the varying pace of technological adoption across the globe, reminding us that advancements like marketing automation, now seen as standard in some parts, are just gaining traction elsewhere.Stephen points out a common misconception within the industry: the belief that AI's application is limited to those with deep technical expertise, such as data engineers. This notion, he argues, often overshadows the simpler, yet profoundly impactful uses of AI that can benefit marketers at all levels. For instance, AI's capability to generate email subject lines or assist in content ideation represents an accessible entry point for professionals seeking to leverage technology to streamline their workflows.The enthusiasm Stephen encountered post-Dreamforce, where attendees expressed astonishment at AI's capabilities, underscores a widespread underestimation of AI's current role and potential in marketing. This reaction suggests a gap between the perceived complexity of AI applications and the practical, immediate benefits they can offer. Stephen's approach to demystifying AI—highlighting straightforward applications and encouraging experimentation with basic tasks—provides a valuable roadmap for professionals looking to embrace AI without feeling overwhelmed.Through his experience, Stephen advocates for starting small with AI, focusing on automating simple tasks that can significantly enhance efficiency and creativity. This strategy not only makes ...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Jessenia Francisco, Director, Marketing Operations at Lucid. Summary: Jessenia shares her journey from nonprofit to tech, emphasizing adaptability and purpose. She tackles imposter syndrome by fostering an inclusive culture, explores the strategic use of tools like Lucidchart in her own day to day, and advocates for mindful martech selection, particularly the integration of AI, balancing innovation with practicality. Her work with Women in Revenue underscores the power of mentorship in empowering women in revenue roles, highlighting the importance of community and strategic thinking for professional and personal growth. About JesseniaJessenia started her career in Finance at Merril Lynch and Bank of AmericaShe pivoted to the non profit space joining the Association of Latino Professionals for America where she started to get in fundraising operationsShe was later recruited by the NewSchools Venture Fund and moved out to the Bay area to roll out Salesforce across the organizationShe then joined the Opportunity Fund as Development Operations Manager focused on improving the donor acquisition process and marketing automation implementationJessenia then made the mega move to Asana where she started in Sales Operations and later pivoted to Marketing Operations leading Martech Program and eventually becoming Head of Marketing AutomationToday she’s Director of Marketing Operations at Lucid Software, the creators of the popular flowchart and diagram tool; LucidchartShifting from Counting Coins to Making ChangeJessenia's career evolution from finance to the nonprofit sector was not just a job change; it was a pursuit of impact over income. She sought to make a tangible difference, moving away from the profit-focused dialogues of her finance days towards creating systemic change. This quest for purpose led her to the nonprofit world, where she found the work deeply rewarding.Reflecting on her journey, Jessenia realized she had been involved in operations long before it became a recognized field, combining her analytical skills with business operations even during her finance tenure. This foundation served her well in the nonprofit sector, allowing her to apply her skills to support community-driven initiatives. She was particularly moved by the stories of the communities she worked with, finding a profound connection to the people and the transformative changes her efforts contributed to.At NewSchools Venture Fund, Jessenia experienced the intersection of venture philanthropy and educational reform. This organization, pioneering in merging investment with educational innovation, aimed to disrupt traditional learning models. She was fascinated by project-based learning, as seen in a Napa school, where even kindergartners engaged in complex concepts like velocity and gravity. Such moments underscored the significant impact of strategic funding in education.The nonprofit sector also presented Jessenia with numerous growth opportunities, from implementing CRMs to leading marketing operations. These experiences built her expertise in sales and marketing operations, highlighting the sector's potential for rapid professional development. Jessenia appreciated the creative challenges and the "champagne taste on a beer budget" mentality, which taught her to maximize limited resources effectively.However, Jessenia also faced challenges, including under-resourcing in technology and potential career stagnation. The nonprofit world's inclination to deprioritize tech investments and the limitations in career growth posed significant hurdles. Additionally, leadership changes and political dynamics within organizations could disrupt projects and affect the effectiveness of operations work.Key Takeaway: Jessenia's narrative reveals the dual nature of nonprofit work: its capacity to fulfill a deep-seated need for purpose and impact, juxtaposed with the practical challenges of limited resources and career growth ceilings. Her journey highlights the importance of adaptability, creativity, and a steadfast focus on mission-driven work amidst these challenges.Career Leaps From Small Ponds to Big Tech OceansJessenia's career leap from niche nonprofits to tech giants like Asana and Lucid sheds light on the value and versatility of working in different organizational sizes. Initially joining Asana when it was a relatively small team of 350, she quickly dispelled the myth that smaller entities lack significance. Her experience at Asana, a company that grew from a "cult classic" to a major player, exemplifies the unique advantages of smaller companies, such as a close-knit work culture and rapid adaptability.Small companies, Jessenia notes, offer a level of intimacy and direct impact that larger organizations can struggle to match. From knowing a colleague's preference for Diet Coke to having the ability to influence business outcomes directly, these environments foster a sense of community and effectiveness. Yet, she also confronts the misconception that privilege and pedigree are absent in smaller settings. Even in a tight-knit team, backgrounds of privilege and elite education can influence dynamics, something Jessenia encountered firsthand.However, as companies grow, maintaining the essence of a smaller organization's culture poses challenges. Jessenia emphasizes the importance of meeting people and business needs as they evolve, advocating for empathy and adaptability in processes. She warns against being wedded to past solutions or technologies, stressing the need to tailor approaches to the organization's current context rather than relying on what worked elsewhere.Key Takeaway: Jessenia makes the point that smaller companies offer a richness of experience and that you will need a nuanced approach if transitioning to or scaling within larger tech companies. She highlights the importance of adaptability, empathy, and a keen understanding of the unique dynamics at play, offering insights into successfully navigating career transitions and fostering personal and professional growth in any organizational landscape.Reflections on Overcoming Imposter SyndromeJessenia tackles imposter syndrome with a unique blend of emotional intelligence and mindful reflection. Instead of reacting on impulse, she takes time to process complex ideas, valuing collaboration over solitary effort. Recognizing when to ask for help has been crucial in her journey, turning potential hurdles into learning opportunities and stronger bonds with her colleagues.Her approach to leadership focuses on empowering her team, encouraging them to confidently express their insights and take ownership of their expertise. This method not only addresses imposter syndrome but also promotes a culture where accountability and teamwork thrive. Jessenia believes in the power of vulnerability and support, showing that admitting you don't know everything can be your greatest strength.Jessenia actively seeks out communities for both professional and personal growth, especially during challenging times like the COVID-19 pandemic. By engaging with networks, she ensures no one has to face difficulties alone, emphasizing the importance of collective wisdom and shared experiences.Key Takeaway: The cornerstone of her strategy against imposter syndrome lies in fostering environments where asking questions, seeking clarity, and valuing each team member's viewpoint are encouraged. This approach not only helps combat feelings of inadequacy but also strengthens the team's cohesion and effectiveness.Cracking the MOPs Code with Lucidchart's Vis...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Josh Kim, Growth Marketing Lead at Notion. Summary: Josh elevated growth marketing from scattered tactics to a unified framework, emphasizing data-informed decisions, teamwork, and a cohesive vision. He detailed the significance of a marketer's adaptable role in a growth pod, the value of strategic martech use, and the power of experimentation in understanding user motivation. By highlighting the synergy between community, product innovation, and growth, alongside the importance of continuous learning through programs like Reforge, Josh provided a compact yet rich guide for marketers seeking sustainable growth.About JoshJosh started his career in strategic planning and analysis before moving to growth product managementHe was the second Growth PM hire at Inflection – an employment screening startup where he worked on their Conversion Optimization teamHe then moved over to Marketing Operations at Credit Karma and later became the first hire on their Growth and Engagement team where he owned implementation and testing focusing on MAUsJosh then spent 3 years at Spotify where he held different Growth Marketing roles owning different products, from Consumer to Creator and finally marketplace Most recently he’s moved over to Notion first focusing on Growth, lifecycle and product marketing and recently leading the Growth Marketing teamJosh also advises startups within the First Round Capital portfolio as an Expert in ResidenceHarnessing Growth Marketing Insights from Top Tech BrandsJosh shares invaluable lessons from his journey through renowned tech companies, spotlighting the essence of growth marketing and brand development. At the heart of his experience is a nuanced understanding of how to blend growth strategies with brand identity, creating a compelling narrative that resonates with users and drives business expansion.Starting at Credit Karma, Josh dove deep into the mechanics of marketing, where he honed his skills in crafting campaigns that not only speak to the product but do so with personality and flair. This foundational stage was crucial, laying the groundwork for his growth marketing philosophy: combining effective brand communication with a genuine connection to the audience.His tenure at Spotify offered a masterclass in synchronizing brand and growth efforts to fuel business scalability. Josh highlights the Spotify Wrapped campaign as a quintessential example of this harmony. This initiative wasn't just a branding triumph; it was a data-driven strategy that leveraged insights to engage both creators and consumers, showcasing the power of integrating brand narratives with growth objectives.At Notion, leading the growth marketing team, Josh finds himself among a cadre of exceptional talent, all united in their mission to make tool making ubiquitous. This role has underscored the importance of working on products that strike a chord with their users. Notion's success, according to Josh, lies in its ability to articulate a brand voice that appeals to a wide array of communities and individual users alike, demonstrating the profound impact of aligning product utility with user passion.Josh's reflections from his experiences at Credit Karma, Spotify, and Notion reveal a consistent theme: the significance of building a brand that not only stands out but also genuinely connects with its audience. This connection fosters an approachability and loyalty that transcends the traditional boundaries of product marketing, turning ordinary users into passionate advocates.Key Takeaway: Josh's experience underscores the critical role of brand marketing in growth. By weaving together insightful data, compelling narratives, and genuine consumer engagement, companies can cultivate a loyal user base and drive sustainable growth. This approach not only elevates the product but also cements the brand's place in the hearts and minds of its audience, proving that at the intersection of growth and brand, remarkable business success can be achieved.Evolution of Growth Marketing From Hacking to Holistic StrategyJosh reflects on the journey of growth marketing from its "growth hacking" days to its current multidisciplinary nature, offering a nuanced perspective on how the field has matured to become an integral part of strategic business development. His insights shed light on the transformation of growth tactics from quick fixes to foundational strategies rooted in data and collaborative team efforts.Growth hacking, once the buzzword of startup culture, aimed to shortcut success with clever tricks and shortcuts. Josh candidly shares his discomfort with the term now, emphasizing that true growth cannot be "hacked." Instead, it requires a solid foundation based on first principles and a deep understanding of data to drive sustainable progress. This shift signifies a move from seeking immediate gains to establishing strategies that ensure long-term success.At the core of successful growth teams today is their multidisciplinary composition. Josh advocates for the inclusion of growth marketers directly within product teams to facilitate faster, more impactful decisions. This approach, pioneered during his tenure at Credit Karma and Spotify, has proven highly effective, especially at Notion, where growth marketers play a pivotal role in most product groups. This setup fosters an environment where different perspectives converge, leading to more holistic and successful growth strategies.Josh outlines three critical elements that define a strong growth team: A shared North Star: A unified goal or metric provides clarity and focus, guiding the team through the myriad of options and strategies available.Clear roles and responsibilities: Clear delineation of roles allows team members to leverage their strengths and address weaknesses collaboratively.A commitment to strong fundamentals: Adherence to growth fundamentals, including rapid iteration and rigorous test hygiene, ensures that strategies are both effective and sustainable.Key Takeaway: The evolution of growth marketing from opportunistic "hacking" to a strategic, multidisciplinary approach highlights the importance of foundational data analysis, cross-functional collaboration, and a clear, shared vision for success. Josh's experience illustrates that the most effective growth strategies emerge from teams that integrate diverse expertise, focus on fundamental principles, and align around a common objective, paving the way for sustainable business growth.Defining the Marketer's Role in a Growth PodJosh provides a compelling narrative on tailoring the growth marketer's role within a team or "pod" to enhance effectiveness and foster innovation. His approach underscores the importance of matching a growth marketer's strengths with the team's needs, creating a dynamic synergy that propels both strategy and execution forward.At the heart of Josh's strategy is the nuanced matchmaking between the team's requirements and the growth marketer's expertise. This process begins with a thorough assessment of both the team's strengths and gaps and the growth marketer's skill set. Whether it's proficiency in paid ads, data analytics, email marketing, or lifecycle management, the goal is to identify where the growth marketer can add the most value. This bespoke alignment ensures that the growth marketer's contribution is both impactful and complementary to the team's existing capabilities.Josh's personal experience at Spotify serves as a prime example of this approach in action. Identifying his strengths in data and analytics, lifecycle email engagement, and experiment design, Josh integrated himself into a pod th...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Debbie Mayen, Head of Marketing Operations at Logitech.Summary: Debbie went from dreaming of diplomacy to steering the global martech ship at Logitech and takes us through a masterclass in making well timed bets and the art of simplifying martech. Her marketing operations mantra includes clear processes, open lines of communication, and giving her team the reins to shine. She walks us through why she’s big on the whole marketing-meets-IT vibe, pushing for teamwork that taps into the best of both. And how her focus on celebrating wins and building an anti-fragile culture is key to withstanding chaos and uncertainty in a profession riddled with burnout. About DeborahDeborah got her start as an International Project Manager where she led big IT projects, and later pivoted to international MARCOM projects and bizdevThis led Deborah to a pivotal role as Marketing and comms manager at Encyclopaedia Britannica where she would spend 7 years managing marketing activities in Latin America and BrazilShe also spent 5 years as a Marketing Automation Project Leader at Molex – where she was focused on optimizing tech stack and lead generation processesToday, Deborah is Head of Global Marketing Operations at Logitech, where her team drives operational excellence for Logitech's B2B Marketing team focused on strategy and automation, segmentation and ABM Embracing Nonlinear Paths into MartechDebbie's foray into the world of martech is a tale of unexpected turns and adaptation. Growing up with a nomadic lifestyle due to her father's career in the oil industry, Debbie was exposed to diverse cultures and languages from an early age. This multicultural upbringing sparked an initial desire to pursue a career in international law or diplomacy. However, as she ventured through university, the reality of the constant movement and its impact on family life led her to reconsider her career trajectory.Opting for a more stable living situation, Debbie still yearned to maintain her connection to the international sphere. This longing eventually steered her toward the realm of international business, landing her a role at Encyclopedia Britannica, focusing on the Latin American market. It was here, amidst the challenge of managing a vast geographic area with a limited budget, that Debbie stumbled upon martech.In the early days of martech, with fewer than 200 vendors and most tools available only in English, resources were scarce. Yet, this did not deter Debbie. Leveraging tools like Silverpop, she ingeniously maximized her small budget to achieve significant impact across Latin America. This experience not only honed her skills but also ignited a passion for martech, drawn to its capacity for measurable results and efficient campaign management without the need for expanding her team.Debbie's entry into martech was born out of necessity but flourished into a deep-seated love for the field. Her journey reflects a seamless blend of her identity and her professional path, showcasing how embracing change and leveraging available resources can lead to unexpected and rewarding destinations.Key Takeaway: Debbie's transition from aspiring diplomat to martech enthusiast underscores the power of adaptability and the unexpected paths our careers can take. Her story is a testament to the impact of embracing one’s background and challenges as opportunities for growth and innovation in the ever-evolving martech landscape.Navigating the Dawn of MartechDebbie's entrance into the martech scene came at a time when the landscape was vastly different from today's sprawling ecosystem. Reflecting on Scott Brinker's landscape charts, she recalls a period of consolidation and the nascent stages of martech, drawing parallels to the current explosion of AI tools in the sector. For Debbie, the early days presented both challenges and opportunities. The relatively small number of tools available meant she could delve deeper into the resources at her disposal, turning limitations into advantages.This era of martech was marked by significant acquisitions, such as Silverpop's integration into IBM's portfolio and Pardot's acquisition by Salesforce, signifying the beginning of industry consolidation. For Debbie, being part of the martech field from its inception allowed her to develop a comprehensive understanding of marketing automation platforms, a knowledge that would set the foundation for her future expertise.Her early start in martech endowed her with the ability to navigate the ever-expanding landscape without getting overwhelmed by the plethora of choices available today. Debbie's journey underscores the importance of foundational knowledge and the advantage of focusing deeply on available tools before branching out. As the martech landscape continues to grow, her experience offers valuable lessons in staying grounded amidst the noise and the allure of new technologies.Key Takeaway: Debbie's early experiences in the evolving martech landscape highlight the benefits of deep specialization and a focused approach to technology adoption. Her story is a testament to the power of leveraging limited resources for maximum impact and the importance of discerning evaluation in the face of rapid industry expansion.The Art of Simplifying MartechDebbie champions a philosophy of simplicity in navigating the galaxy of martech tools. She believes in a measured approach, cautioning against the allure of new technologies without a clear understanding of organizational needs. For Debbie, each addition to the martech stack represents not just potential benefits but also added complexity and potential debt. She emphasizes a cost-benefit analysis to ensure the advantages of any new tool significantly outweigh the costs, considering factors like team workload, system integration, and the tool's alignment with the company's evolving goals.This practical mindset extends to prioritizing work-life balance for her team and ensuring that any new technology seamlessly integrates into existing systems without creating unnecessary burdens. Debbie's old-school martech perspective of "less is more" serves as a guiding principle, advocating for a focus on what truly adds value and drives forward the company's objectives.Key Takeaway: Debbie's strategy in martech selection is grounded in simplicity and practicality, underscoring the importance of a discerning approach to tool adoption. Her advice encourages a balance between embracing innovation and maintaining a streamlined, effective martech stack that aligns with both immediate and long-term business goals.Navigating the Challenges of Marketing Operations at LogitechAt Logitech, the marketing operations team faces the intricate challenge of serving various internal and external stakeholders across different groups and brands. Debbie highlights that the key to managing these challenges lies in recognizing the team's central role as a service arm within the organization. With each business group having unique demands, it becomes crucial to maintain a bird's-eye view of all requests, ensuring no group is unaware of the others' needs.Process orientation emerges as a fundamental strategy for the mops team. By adhering to well-defined processes, the team not only safeguards the quality of their work but also empowers themselves to manage and prioritize requests effectively. Debbie stresses the importance of clarity and communication in this dynamic environment. She encourages her team to engage in open dialogues with stakeholders, offering the ability to push back on requests when necessary, provided it's done with clear reasoning and possible alternatives.This approach fosters a culture where markete...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Ezra Fishman, VP of Growth at Wistia. About EzraEzra started his career as an engineer developing devices to help treat diabetes and obesity at GI DynamicsHe later had a short stint as an Operations Manager at an investment firm that was dedicated to funding health tech startupsAfter completing his MBA, Ezra joined a video tech startup called Wistia as their Director of Marketing and after 4 years he transitioned to leading Business IntelligenceToday Ezra is VP of Growth at Wistia where he’s now spent over 12 years, seeing the company grow from a handful of customers to over 375,000 and becoming one of the top vPaaS tools on the planetSummary: Ezra is a strategic and technical visionary at Wistia. He combines an audience-first content strategy with a data-informed approach to drive sustainable growth. He emphasizes the importance of genuine relationships over transactions and advocates for leveraging data to inform decisions while valuing human intuition. His journey from initiating a central data warehouse to implementing tools like Census, Fivetran, and dbt showcases how a single source of truth can enhance operational efficiency. Ezra's experience, from fostering a data-informed culture to embracing a scrappy startup mentality with a focus on high-impact ideas and rigorous A/B testing, reflects a commitment to strategic evolution and the balance between data and creativity. His insights offer invaluable lessons on growing and engaging with audiences in meaningful ways, advocating for a blend of strategy, intuition, and data-informed decisions in marketing.From Wistia’s First Customer to Early Team MemberImagine this: Ezra, initially just a fan from the sidelines, watching Wistia, a fledgling startup by his buddies Chris Savage and Brendan Schwartz, trying to carve its niche in the world of video. This journey from an intrigued observer to Wistia's first customer, and eventually, a pivotal team member, is nothing short of a cinematic twist.Back in the day, while Ezra was navigating the complexities of medical devices, Chris and Brendan were brainstorming Wistia's next big thing. The plot thickens when Ezra, amidst casual banter in their Boston living room, pitches a game-changing idea sparked by his own professional hurdles. Picture this: medical procedures generating heaps of video data, with the only sharing option being the archaic method of mailing DVDs worldwide. Enter Ezra's lightbulb moment—why not transform Wistia into a haven for secure, efficient video collaboration?Fast forward to Wistia marking its foray into uncharted territories. This wasn't just about ditching DVDs for digital; it was about reimagining how professionals could leverage video for learning and collaboration.The narrative takes a delightful turn when, over a lunch filled with reminiscing and future-gazing, Chris and Brendan propose a novel idea to Ezra. With a shared laugh over their collective naiveté in marketing and business management, they decide to join forces. This was the moment of serendipity, the kind that you'd find in tales of old, where the hero embarks on an unforeseen quest.Wistia's storyline evolves with a bold strategic pivot, transitioning from a focus on internal video sharing to mastering the art of video marketing. This wasn't merely a shift in services; it was a leap towards redefining Wistia’s essence. The introduction of video embeds and performance tracking was akin to discovering a new continent in the realm of video marketing. This pivot was the catalyst for an explosive growth, attracting a myriad of users and establishing Wistia as a beacon in the marketing universe.Ezra's saga with Wistia illustrates a kaleidoscope of lessons: the beauty of perspective, the strength found in adaptability, and the magic of seizing hidden opportunities. It's a testament to how internal insights can dramatically alter a company's course, steering it towards realms of untapped potential and success.Key Takeaway: Ezra's journey with Wistia showcases the power of leveraging personal experiences to spot unique opportunities in the professional sphere. His story teaches us the importance of staying open to unexpected career paths and the transformative potential of internal insights. For any professional, Ezra's narrative is a reminder to embrace adaptability and look beyond conventional boundaries, because sometimes, the next big shift in your career or business strategy could emerge from your own unique challenges and observations.Ezra's Audience-First Philosophy Beyond Funnel VisionEzra's reflections on Wistia's early content strategy are a testament to the power of foresight and the courage to challenge the status quo. In an era dominated by the lead capture mantra, the idea of prioritizing audience engagement over immediate conversions was nothing short of revolutionary. Ezra's insights into this paradigm shift reveal not just a tactical change, but a philosophical evolution in marketing.At the heart of this transformation was a simple observation: content that educates, engages, and entertains fosters a community of brand advocates. Ezra noticed early on that content about video production on a budget or maximizing video effectiveness wasn't just filling up space on Wistia's blog; it was actively drawing people into a conversation with the brand. This wasn't engagement that could be easily quantified by the number of leads generated, but its impact was undeniable. Website visits and signups surged post-publication, showcasing the tangible benefits of nurturing an audience.This observation led to a critical realization: gating content might boost lead numbers temporarily, but it dampens genuine engagement. The stark contrast between open access and restricted content provided clear evidence that the key to sustained growth was fostering an environment where quality trumped quantity. This approach required a commitment to producing stellar content that people didn't just stumble upon but sought out and shared.Ezra's philosophy underscores a critical marketing truth: building an audience is about cultivating relationships, not just capturing data points. This mindset shift from a focus on quantity to a dedication to quality was, at the time, a bold stance that set Wistia apart. It wasn't about bombarding people with sales pitches but about drawing them into a meaningful dialogue with the brand.This audience-first approach is not just about creating fans; it's about building a community that grows organically, powered by the quality of interaction and content. The lesson here is clear: when marketers prioritize genuine engagement over short-term metrics, they lay the foundation for lasting growth and brand loyalty.Key Takeaway: Ezra's strategic pivot to an audience-first approach at Wistia highlights the lasting value of building genuine relationships over transactional interactions. In today's content-saturated world, the brands that stand out are those that treat their audience not as leads to be captured but as a community to be cultivated. This philosophy doesn't just elevate a brand's marketing game; it transforms customers into advocates, ensuring sustainable growth and a competitive edge.Data-Informed Instead of Data-DrivenEzra's path through the diverse landscapes of marketing, business intelligence (BI), and growth at Wistia is a narrative about the confluence of data and human insight. His tenure, marked by wearing multiple hats across different roles, underscores a singular truth: the realms of marketing, BI, and growth, despite their distinctions, share a common core centered around attracting and engaging people, converting them, and leveraging data for informed decision-making.Ezra, self-...

Summary: Justin is a polished voice of reason in martech. In our conversation, he focused on the practicality of AI, highlighting its capability to transform data into actionable insights, aiding in a deeper understanding of customer needs. We also covered the shift towards flexible, composable tech stacks and the importance of diverse skills alongside a few Sci-fi references. He also proposed a transparent, Shark Tank-style approach for selecting martech vendors, underscoring the need for effective evaluation methods. This episode offers practical guidance for marketers aiming to navigate the rise of gen AI in marketing.Balancing Opportunity and Skepticism With AI in Marketing Justin's insights highlight a critical juncture in marketing technology: the integration of AI, specifically GPT-4, into daily practices. He acknowledges the prevalent fear of missing out (FOMO) among marketers, emphasizing the importance of staying abreast with AI advancements. Justin points out the dual nature of this fear: the anxiety about falling behind and the apprehension towards the implications of AI in marketing. His perspective reflects a cautious yet necessary embrace of technology.Interestingly, Justin positions himself as a technologist with a skeptical eye, wary of jumping onto the latest trend without due diligence. This approach is particularly relevant in a field bombarded with yearly hype cycles. His focus on adding value rather than noise is commendable. By mapping out AI's potential use cases in marketing, Justin contributes to a more structured understanding of this technology. He shifts the conversation from mere adoption to thoughtful integration, ensuring AI's relevance and applicability to marketing operations.The idea of mapping AI's role in marketing is not just about adoption but about understanding where and how it fits into the broader marketing strategy. Justin's approach of breaking down and analyzing different aspects of AI in marketing is crucial for its effective utilization. His methodical and analytical approach towards AI adoption in marketing is a testament to the need for balance - recognizing the potential of new technology while maintaining a healthy skepticism.Key takeaway: Marketers should balance the excitement of AI's potential with a thoughtful, structured approach to its integration into marketing operations. Understanding and mapping AI's practical applications in marketing can turn the fear of missing out into an opportunity for innovation and strategic advancement.Transitioning Rule-Based to AI-Driven Marketing StrategiesJustin delves into the complexities of transitioning from traditional rule-based automation to AI-driven approaches like next best action and propensity modeling in marketing. This shift, he points out, is not just a technological upgrade but a fundamental change in how marketing campaigns are conceptualized and executed. His insights are particularly relevant for marketing teams accustomed to rule-based systems and now facing the challenge of integrating more sophisticated, AI-powered models.The promise of AI in marketing, especially in next best action scenarios, is substantial. Justin notes that while the concept has been a long-sought 'Holy Grail,' it's now becoming a practical reality. However, he cautions against being swept away by the technological possibilities without considering their practical implications. The key, according to Justin, is to subordinate the technology to what works effectively as a marketer, always keeping the customer context in focus.For B2C scenarios or low-value product-led growth motions, AI-driven recommendations can be incredibly effective. However, Justin points out the limitations in complex B2B contexts, such as selling high-value products or services. These scenarios involve decision committees, contracts, and multiple stakeholders, where a simple AI-generated email is unlikely to clinch a deal. He suggests a more nuanced application of AI, perhaps integrating insights from sales calls or digital body language to tailor communications more effectively.Regarding quality assurance in AI-driven marketing, Justin highlights the potential pitfalls. He shares an example of an AI-generated email that was impressively detailed yet glaringly inaccurate, underscoring the brand risk associated with unmoderated AI content. This example illustrates the current necessity for a human in the loop, balancing AI's efficiency with the nuanced understanding that only human oversight can provide.Key takeaway: Justin's perspective on integrating AI into marketing strategies emphasizes a thoughtful, customer-centric approach. The shift from rule-based to AI-driven models demands not only technological adoption but also a strategic reevaluation of marketing practices. The balance between leveraging AI's capabilities and maintaining human oversight is crucial to navigate this transition successfully, ensuring that marketing efforts remain effective and resonate authentically with the target audience.Balancing AI Adoption with Practical Realities in MarketingJustin addresses the emotional aspect of adopting AI in marketing, acknowledging the tension between the excitement of AI's potential and the reality of its practical application. This emotional dimension is often overlooked in the rush to embrace new technology. Justin highlights the challenge of integrating AI without losing the human element, a concern particularly relevant in an era where personalization and authenticity are crucial.The key, according to Justin, is to find a balance between being at the forefront of AI adoption and ensuring that the technology genuinely enhances marketing efforts. He shares his strategy of assessing AI tools based on their feasibility and impact. Some applications, like AI-generated LinkedIn posts, might be feasible but not necessarily advisable due to their impact on authenticity and personal engagement. On the other hand, AI-generated imagery offers significant benefits, producing unique and compelling visuals that surpass traditional stock images.Justin's approach is driven by the practical benefits of AI, focusing on areas where AI can offer substantial support. For instance, processing large volumes of unstructured text, a tedious task for humans, is an area where AI can provide significant relief. His advice for listeners is to let their needs guide their adoption of AI, rather than succumbing to the pressure of forced adoption. By doing so, they can leverage AI where it truly adds value, enhancing their work while retaining the essential human touch.Key takeaway: In martech, the adoption of AI should be driven by practicality and real needs, rather than the pressure to conform to trends. Evaluating AI tools based on their feasibility and impact ensures that their integration enhances marketing efforts without compromising the human element that remains essential to effective communication.AI as a Tool for Enhancing Creative MarketingJustin discusses the role of AI in transforming unstructured data into actionable insights, particularly in the context of marketing and content creation. He touches upon an intriguing shift from the traditional focus on quantitative data to the exploration of qualitative insights through AI tools. This shift is significant, especially in an era where content creators and marketers have predominantly leaned towards quantitative analysis.Justin reflects on the unique nature of creative work and the essential human insights that drive its excellence. He is of the view that certain aspects of creativity and human consciousness are inherently unique and cannot be replicated by AI. In his analogy, AI is like a highly responsive paintbrush, capable of executing tasks based on verbal instructions, y...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Crissy Saunders, CEO and Co-Founder at CS2. Summary: Crissy takes us through the evolution from tactical management to strategic leadership, and the adaptation to changing marketing strategies. We discuss the significance of specialized platforms in marketing automation, the critical role of the sales funnel in revenue growth, the shift in email marketing towards 'inbox influence', and revitalizing outbound marketing strategies. This episode is a concise yet profound guide, offering actionable insights for martech professionals to navigate their careers and strategies effectively.About CrissyCrissy started her career at Marketo when the company was only 4 years old. She was quickly promoted to Marketing Ops manager where she led weekly training of internal users as well as lead management and technical execution for enterprise clientsShe then moved over to Jive Software as Global Marketing Operations Manager and later Agari as a Sr Demand Gen manager She co founded Walkzee, an app that connected sheltered dogs with dog lovers who needed a walking buddyShe also co-founded CS2 with her husband Charlie, a martech agency that powers efficient and predictable revenue which has grown to over 15 team members and has served some of the coolest brands including Gong, Sendoso, Coursera and SalesLoftShe also finds time to be a podcast co-host, a women in revenue co-founder, a partner at MKT1 and an advisor for Syncari and ChilipiperNavigating the Dual Dynamics of Marriage and Business in MartechCrissy's journey with her husband Charlie in the realm of marketing operations (martech ops) is a testament to how personal and professional relationships can synergize effectively. Their story began in a work environment, where they were assigned to different global roles. Crissy, based in Palo Alto, and Charlie, working from the EMEA office, quickly realized the need for a counterpart due to the time difference. This necessity sparked their collaboration.Their work dynamic evolved as they discovered not only their professional compatibility but also a personal connection. This dual relationship blossomed into marriage, and after a year of living apart, they decided to venture into consulting. The transition from employees to business owners was facilitated by their solid professional background and the initial success in acquiring clients. This success was a result of their extensive network and the burgeoning field of marketing and sales operations, which at the time, was not as recognized as it is today.Their business, initially named CSU Marketing, evolved to focus on revenue operations, reflecting their diverse expertise beyond just marketing ops. They attribute their successful business partnership to aligning on business goals, leveraging each other's strengths, and maintaining constant communication. Daily meetings help them stay connected and address priorities, a luxury not all business leaders share.However, blending personal and professional life has its challenges. Discussions about the business often spill into their personal time, but they view this as a constructive process. Differences in opinion are not seen as conflicts but as opportunities for 'storming' – a phase in the McKinsey framework – leading to innovative solutions. This approach underscores their ability to balance their roles as business partners and life partners.Key takeaway: Crissy and Charlie's experience highlights the importance of communication, alignment of goals, and leveraging individual strengths in a business partnership. Their journey from colleagues to spouses and business partners demonstrates that professional and personal relationships can coexist and thrive, provided there's a clear understanding of roles, constant communication, and a positive approach to resolving differences.Elevating from Tactical Manager to Strategic Leader in MartechCrissy sheds light on a crucial challenge in the martech sector: the transition from a tactical, technology-focused manager to a strategic, business-minded director. In her view, the key to success in operations roles lies in balancing tactical knowledge with evolving strategic approaches. Understanding the operational landscape and keeping abreast of technological possibilities are vital for leaders in this field.She emphasizes the importance of building a solid operational foundation rather than being mired in constant 'firefighting' mode. This foundation is crucial for moving beyond immediate tactical challenges and focusing on long-term strategic goals. Crissy advises against solely aiming for a position where one only manages people and devises strategies. A true leader in martech needs to grasp the practical aspects of the technology they oversee, even if not involved in the hands-on work.Her tips for professionals aspiring to advance include aligning with business goals and key metrics, particularly those of the revenue team. She advises creating a flexible roadmap that accommodates unforeseen challenges while ensuring that the team remains focused on impactful, long-term projects. Moreover, she underscores the importance of data analysis and insights in driving operational efficiency and informing higher-level decisions.Key takeaway: To progress from a tactical role to a strategic leadership position in martech, professionals need to balance their technical knowledge with an understanding of evolving business strategies. Building a solid operational foundation, aligning with key business goals, and emphasizing data analysis are essential steps. Success in this transition requires not just managing teams but also possessing a deep understanding of the technology and strategies that drive the business forward.The Challenges of Unbundling Marketing Automation PlatformsCrissy delves into the complexities of unbundling marketing automation platforms in the current martech environment. She identifies several issues that make this process challenging, particularly for established operations. The primary concerns include understaffing, high turnover, and the necessity for comprehensive training on these tools.Marketing automation platforms offer a wide range of functionalities, which can be both a blessing and a curse. While they provide a one-stop solution for various needs, Crissy points out that many features often go unused, leading to questions about cost-effectiveness. However, the real worry lies in the management and upkeep of these systems. The existing tech debt in marketing automation and CRM platforms complicates the situation further.Crissy suggests that while the idea of a more flexible, composable solution is appealing, especially for small and medium businesses (SMBs) focusing on profitability and investment appeal, the historical and operational challenges in B2B settings make it a difficult transition. She also highlights the potential benefits of having a single tool to master, simplifying contract management and expertise development within teams.The future of marketing automation, according to Crissy, lies not in the immediate unbundling of these platforms but in the advancements and specialization of these tools. She emphasizes the need for marketing ops professionals to choose platforms based on their specific use case...

What’s up everyone, today we’re chatting with Josh Hill, a GTM operations and tech executive with more than 20 years of experience in B2B sales, marketing, and technology.Summary: Josh delved into how integrating sales experience into marketing strategies leads to more customer-centric approaches. He highlighted the importance of hands-on experience with martech tools, blending marketing creativity with technical know-how, and the significance of high-quality data for effective AI implementation in marketing. He shared his journey of juggling personal projects with professional growth, striking a chord on maintaining work-life balance in a high-octane career. This episode is a backstage pass for anyone in martech, offering practical insights and strategies to take center stage in this mad world of martech.About JoshJosh started his career in enterprise sales at The Economist before moving to a demand gen role where he wore many different hats including martech and database management He then had a few short stints at different software and cybersecurity companies touching everything from SEO, SEM, content, branding, email deliverability and data qualityHe was also a solopreneur and consulted with senior marketing and sales leaders at B2B SaaS companies Josh is best known for creating the marketingrockstarguides blog for 7 years, one of the top blogs supporting marketing technologists, before it’s acquisition by Etumos a marketing automation consultancyMost recently, Josh spent 7.5 years at RingCentral moving up to Associate VP of Martech where he built and led a globally distributed center of excellence to scale GTM and Martech architectureToday Josh serves as an Advisor at Openprise, a RevOps data automation platform for enterpriseLeveraging Sales Experience for Marketing SuccessJosh's career trajectory from sales to marketing is a story that demonstrates the value of cross-functional skills in today's business world. His time at The Economist, where he honed his skills in account renewal and new business acquisition, laid a solid foundation for his later transition to marketing. Josh highlights the importance of direct customer interactions and negotiation skills developed in sales, which provided him with a unique perspective and skill set. These skills proved to be invaluable as he moved into marketing, particularly in stakeholder management and vendor relations.In his sales role, Josh realized a disconnect between marketing materials and customer perceptions. This insight led him to rethink the approach to customer engagement, moving away from traditional sales pitches to a more content-focused marketing strategy. His success in sales, where he was one of the top representatives, stemmed from aligning customer needs with marketing messages, an approach he sought to scale in his marketing role.Josh's transition was not just a shift in job functions but a broader business transformation. He emphasized the importance of aligning sales and marketing, leveraging marketing automation tools, and understanding the nuances of demand generation. His hands-on experience with attribution reporting and CRM systems further enriched his marketing expertise. Josh's journey is a testament to the benefits of integrating technology and customer service experiences into marketing strategies.Key takeaway: Josh's transition from sales to marketing at The Economist underscores the value of integrating sales insights into marketing strategies. By utilizing his direct customer interactions and negotiation skills acquired in sales, he crafted marketing approaches that were more aligned with customer needs and expectations. This fusion of sales and marketing perspectives proved crucial in developing effective, customer-centric marketing strategies, demonstrating the importance of cross-functional skills in the martech industry.Building a Respected Martech Resource: Marketing Rockstar GuidesJosh's journey in the martech world is a remarkable story of how personal branding and content marketing can converge to create a powerful platform. His blog, Marketing Rockstar Guides, emerged as a response to the growing curiosity and challenges professionals faced in understanding and utilizing marketing technology tools effectively. Recognizing the gap in practical, hands-on knowledge, Josh leveraged his own experiences and insights to create a resource that would demystify complex martech concepts for a broader audience.Initially, Josh's venture into content creation was fueled by his innate ability to understand and implement emerging martech tools, a skill that many in the industry were struggling with. His hands-on approach to learning by doing became the cornerstone of his content strategy. He began addressing common workflow problems and providing solutions through his blog, quickly transforming it into an essential resource for martech professionals. This move not only established him as a thought leader but also laid the groundwork for his first consulting gig, showcasing the power of sharing knowledge.As the blog grew, it became a significant inbound engine for his consulting business, attracting professionals who were grateful for the practical guidance it offered. Topics on the blog often stemmed from community questions, reflecting Josh's commitment to addressing real-world problems and aiding career development in the martech sector. This engagement also opened doors for speaking opportunities, further solidifying his position as an expert in the field.However, managing a growing platform while balancing a full-time job became a challenge for Josh. His decision to pass on the baton of his blog was not an easy one, but it was a strategic move to ensure the continuity of the resource he had built. The sale of the blog marked a new phase in his career, as he began exploring other content platforms and mediums, like LinkedIn, to continue sharing valuable insights in the evolving martech landscape.Key takeaway: Josh's creation and eventual sale of Marketing Rockstar Guides is a testament to the impact of sharing expertise and practical solutions in the martech industry. His approach demonstrates the power of content marketing and personal branding in building a respected resource, while also highlighting the challenges of balancing personal projects with professional commitments.The Practicality of Hands-On Martech ExperienceJosh's insights into the martech world emphasize the invaluable role of hands-on experience in mastering marketing technology. His journey, particularly during his early days at The Economist, showcases the significance of directly engaging with tools and processes to understand and improve them. This hands-on approach, he believes, is crucial for anyone looking to excel in the martech field.Initially, Josh tackled attribution by manually analyzing data within a limited scope, using tools like Salesforce campaigns. This process, though time-consuming, was instrumental in understanding the effectiveness of various marketing tactics, such as content types and event charges. This hands-on experience allowed him to develop a deep understanding of low-level attribution, leading to more effective marketing strategies and cost reductions.However, Josh advises against relying solely on manual processes. Instead, he encourages a 'play to learn' approach, advocating for exploration and experimentation with martech tools. This involves questioning every step of a process, from sending an email to capturing data for a white paper. By understanding the components and mechanics of these tasks, martech professionals can more effec...

What’s up everyone, today we have the honor of sitting down with a true martech Jedi Master: Paul Wilson, Founder and Chief Strategist at GTM Systems.Summary: Paul wielded his lightsaber of wisdom, skillfully navigating the nebula of modern marketing technology and the rise of generative AI. He shared insights on the strategic dance of early freelancing in martech during the dawn of marketing automation and how there are similar opportunities today with harnessing the Force of generative AI. We delved into marketing operations, where professionals are like astute navigators of starships, steering through the complex cosmos of data management and AI integration. Paul's approach emphasized the importance of emotional intelligence and human intuition in a digital marketing realm. This episode was a hyperdrive journey through the galaxy of martech, peering into the future and illuminating the path for marketers to balance the Force of technological advancement with the art of human creativity.About PaulPaul kicked off his career in software sales in cybersecurity and was later introduced to the intricate world of email and martech at an Ottawa-based startup that offered anti-spam and anti-virus email filtering softwareHe would also start his moonlighting freelance career, founding CRM Nerds where he would provide strategic leadership for martech implementations for a variety of brandsAfter a short stint at Bell as a PM for their CRM business solutions, Paul led martech and salestech at two startups, dna13 – an Ottawa-based brand reputation management tool and Klocwork – a Minneapolis-based developer productivity tool Paul also worked at two agencies, first at Shift CRM as a Salesforce Consultant in Ottawa and later at Perkuto as a Senior Solutions Architect in DenverHe then made the mega move to Marketo, first focusing on Partner Development and later as the Head of Martech and Innovation. After their acquisition by Adobe, Paul was one of the leads on the project to implement Marketo for all of Adobe’s B2B businessThe mega moves didn’t stop there though, Paul took on the role of Senior Director of Marketing Operations at Slack and was later promoted to VP after the Salesforce acquisitionFinally, after a short stint at OneTrust, Paul strapped on his jetpack and went out on his own to found GTM Systems, dedicated to preparing business to harness the power of gen AIFreelancing Early in Martech is a Strategic Choice for Career DevelopmentWe kicked off our discussion with Pau by asking him to take us back to his early days at CRM Nerds, where he undertook an independent consulting project with Chipworks, a small business in Kanata. Interestingly, this was Phil’s first tech job, marking a significant point in his career. Paul's work at Chipworks not only influenced Phil's interest in marketing operations but also raises an important question about the traditional career advice in martech. Typically, newcomers are advised to delay freelancing until they gain more experience and a larger network. However, Paul's experience suggests that for those with advanced skills and specialization, early freelancing could be a strategic advantage.During the nascent stages of martech, specifically around 2012-2013, Paul chose to freelance at a time when marketing technology was just beginning to take off. The industry was in dire need of experts who could navigate these new waters, and mature agencies were yet to build a team of experienced professionals. Paul's decision to freelance offered him a unique opportunity to work with diverse organizational structures and challenges, significantly enhancing his skill set and expertise.Paul's story serves as an example for those considering freelancing in the early stages of their career. The current state of martech and generative AI, according to him, mirrors the early 2010s. He observes a stagnation in marketing automation but anticipates a new wave of growth driven by generative technologies. As many professionals embrace independent consulting in 2023, Paul believes that their ability to adapt and apply their skills in this changing landscape will be crucial.Key takeaway: Early freelancing in martech, particularly for those with specialized skills, offers a strategic edge. It not only broadens experience but also hastens skill development. In the current martech landscape, similar to the early 2010s, adaptability is key. With generative technologies driving growth, professionals, especially independent consultants, must adapt and apply their skills to thrive in this evolving sector.Navigating Generative AI in the Martech LandscapePaul delves into the burgeoning realm of generative AI within martech, addressing the challenges and opportunities it presents for organizations. As an independent consultant, he shares valuable insights into integrating tools like ChatGPT and leveraging generative AI for enhancing marketing and sales strategies. This conversation is especially relevant considering our own experience with incorporating these technologies into our toolkit, including this podcast.The first key point Paul emphasizes is awareness. He illustrates this with the classic steps meme: a person with one foot on an escalator several steps higher than the other, symbolizing the disconnect between a CEO's perception of generative AI capabilities and the organization's actual position. This gap in awareness is where many companies struggle. Paul stresses the importance of understanding where an organization currently stands in its readiness to adopt these technologies.Paul touches on the necessity of a solid data foundation. He points out that fragmented data across silos impedes the effective implementation of generative AI. The quality, accessibility, and integration of data are crucial for creating a cohesive and scalable generative experience.Lastly, Paul discusses the organizational impact of adopting generative AI. He underscores the need for robust privacy and data governance policies. Organizations must evaluate how these technologies align with their existing structures and policies to avoid potential pitfalls like data leakage or misuse.Paul is currently focused on helping companies initiate their journey into this new era. He aids them in assessing their capabilities and readiness, a crucial first step in building a strategic roadmap for leveraging generative AI effectively.Key takeaway: Successfully integrating generative AI in martech hinges on three main factors: organizational awareness of current capabilities, a solid and integrated data foundation, and a thorough understanding of the organizational impact, including data governance and privacy policies. This strategic approach enables companies to navigate the complexities of generative AI and harness its full potential.How Marketing Operations Drives the Butterfly Effect in AI-Driven MartechPaul sheds light on the evolving role of marketing operations in the age of AI and generative technologies. The conversation pivots on the long-standing emphasis on data management in marketing, a topic now gaining widespread attention due to its critical role in AI integration. Paul agrees that the longstanding advice about the importance of clean, well-managed data is more relevant than ever, especially as businesses increasingly turn to AI and generative technologies.Paul observes that marketing operations professionals are now the custodians of digital experiences. He reflects on the evolution of the field, noting how roles and responsibilities have shifted over time. For instance, the emergence of platforms like Outreach and SalesLoft around 2...

What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with the acclaimed Britney Muller, Founder and Consultant at Data Sci 101 and former Senior SEO Scientist at Moz. Summary: Britney takes us on a wild ride through the intersection of marketing and AI, emphasizing the importance of adaptability, continuous learning, and ethical considerations. Britney's journey from SEO to AI illustrates the need for data literacy and strategic decision-making in marketing. She delves into the ethical nuances of AI, discussing the limitations of LLMs and the importance of transparency and responsible development. Highlighting the human element in AI, Britney advocates for balancing technological advancements with human creativity and intuition, and underscores the transformative potential of AI across various sectors. This episode is a compelling call to action for professionals to harmoniously blend technical expertise with ethical mindfulness in the rapidly evolving martech landscape.About BritneyBritney started her career when she moved to Breckenridge Colorado chasing fresh snow and snowboard hills. She connected with a local realtor who introduced her to SEO and after discovering search data, she never looked backShe spent 7 months preparing to rank her personal site for the term “Burton US Open” and ended up ranking ahead of Burton.com and received a call from their marketing team who invited her to dinner This spurred her to start her own agency which she ran for several successful years but after being on the cutting edge of SEO and doing the speaking circuit at conferences around the world, Britney started getting hungry for a new challenge: enter Machine LearningShe stumbled upon Harvard’s Data Science 109 course after searching Github repos and dived super deep into this new field She was eventually poached by Moz where she spent 4 years as Senior SEO Scientist where she re-wrote the Beginner's Guide to SEO amongst a bunch of other content and continued her SEO researchShe later joined Hugging Face, the fastest-growing Machine Learning community & open-source ML platformToday Britney has returned to her entrepreneurial roots as a Machine Learning & SEO consultant and the Founder of Data Sci 101 with the goal of making LLMs like ChatGPT as accessible as possibleEmbracing Machine Learning: A Journey from SEO to AIBritney's journey from SEO expertise to machine learning is a testament to the power of curiosity and continuous learning. Nearly a decade ago, while most in the martech field were focused solely on traditional methods, Britney's unique passion for learning and experimentation led her to explore machine learning. This shift was fueled by her desire for a new challenge, as she felt she had reached the zenith of her SEO experiments.The pivotal moment came when she took the Harvard CS 109 course on machine learning. This experience opened her eyes to the transformative potential of feeding data to models and letting them learn patterns independently. The tangible results and potential applications she witnessed were not just intellectually stimulating but also professionally inspiring. As machine learning evolved, so did Britney's skills. She recalls the early days of TensorFlow, where complex lines of code were required for basic functions, which have now been simplified drastically.Britney's approach to machine learning is unique. She enjoys taking existing models and reengineering them for different applications, a process she describes as akin to being a 'Frankenstein developer.' This creative tinkering led to practical applications and fun experiments, like her first MNIST model, which could recognize handwritten numbers with high accuracy. Her pride in this achievement underscores her deep connection to her work and the joy it brings her.Key takeaway: Britney's transition from SEO to machine learning highlights the importance of pursuing passions and continuous learning in professional development. Her success stems from her willingness to embrace new challenges and innovate by reapplying existing technologies in novel ways. This story is a reminder that staying curious and adaptable is crucial in the ever-progressing field of martech.Data Literacy: Bridging the Gap in MarketingBritney's endeavor with Data Sci 101 aligns perfectly with her goals of educating the martech community and fostering a well-informed approach to AI and ML. She emphasizes the importance of statistical knowledge in marketing, a skill often overlooked in traditional marketing education. Britney's passion for sharing knowledge is driven by her discovery of the significant gap in data literacy within the marketing industry. This gap, she believes, hinders marketers from making more strategic decisions and finding better insights.Her approach to education in this field is both innovative and practical. Britney focuses on creating content that is engaging and accessible, breaking down complex topics into understandable segments. She draws inspiration from her friend Daisy Quaker's approach, emphasizing the need to repurpose extensive resources into more digestible formats - akin to turning a large turkey into multiple turkey sandwiches. This analogy perfectly encapsulates her method of making complex data science concepts more palatable for the average marketer.Britney's journey in educating others began with her own realization of the lack of statistical training in her marketing career. This led her to delve deeper into data science, allowing her to identify and address the gaps in knowledge within the marketing community. Her efforts are not just about imparting knowledge but also about empowering marketers to leverage data more effectively in their strategies.Key takeaway: Britney's initiative with Data Sci 101 highlights the critical need for data literacy in the marketing world. Her commitment to educating her peers about the importance of statistical knowledge and her innovative approach to content creation serve as a model for making complex subjects accessible and engaging. This endeavor not only enhances the skill set of marketers but also paves the way for more data-informed and strategic decision-making in the industry.Deciphering the Alien Nature of Large Language ModelsBritney's analogy of large language models (LLMs) as aliens provides a unique perspective on the intricacies of AI in the martech world. She recalls one of the more technical textbooks she read on LLMs and how the author compares LLMs to beings in a black cave, fed with the world's texts but lacking a true understanding of human experiences and languages' nuances. This vivid imagery conveys the idea that, while LLMs are proficient in processing and mimicking language patterns, they fall short in grasping the depth and context of real-world experiences and specialized knowledge.Britney's approach to explaining complex concepts through relatable analogies reflects her commitment to making the abstract more accessible. Her use of post-it notes to jot down everyday analogies like baseball references showcases her inventive method of communication. This approach is crucial in a field where the technology is often abstract and difficult for the average person to grasp.“LLMs are essentially aliens from a different universe: while they have access to all our world’s text, they lack genuine comprehension of languages, nuances of our reality, and the intricacies of human experience and knowledge.” - Britney Muller, Introduction to LLMs, part 1. This alien analogy underlines a significant limitatio...

What’s up folks. As we close in on episode 100 and the end of this season, one episode that’s been on the list for a while now is revealing how we do our AI images. Most of the comments we get on our social posts aren’t “wow amazing content, love the CDP topics, I learned so much about email deliverability…” It’s usually “that cover art is SO cool, what’s the prompt that you use, what tool are you using for these amazing images?”So without further ado, let’s go behind the curtain and walk you through the process that we use to repurpose our audio only podcasts into long form blog posts packed with eye popping AI images.Of note, this is a highly visual episode so check out the blog post here for all the images: https://humansofmartech.com/2023/11/21/98-revealing-the-secret-prompts-and-process-behind-our-ai-images/Here’s today’s main takeaway: Ditch your raw transcripts and transform your audio podcast into a visually engaging blog with unique AI-generated images. Ditch lame stock images and learn how to use Midjourney for standout visuals that elevate your content and captivate your audience. But a word to the wise: these AI tools are addictive. Use them at your own peril.Agenda for the episode:How to turn your audio-only podcast transcript into a long form blog post that you can then repurpose for social sharesHow to get started with Midjourney, setting up your Discord server and adding key bots. Picking a consistent styleBring your blog post social shares to life with eye-popping images and make your podcast stand out with a unique cover art that matches your featured guestsHow to turn your audio-only podcast transcript into a long form blog postJT: Alright so Phil, we’ve been using Otter.ai to transcribe every episode after you’ve edited them. What’s the first step to converting that long not so great raw transcript into the polished blog posts we have on the site today?PG: Yeah so step number 1 involves our trusty friend ChatGPT. Here’s the prompt I start with:I’ll provide podcast transcripts with [guest name], and I want you to convert each Q&A into a blog passage. Third-person only. No fluff or weird words. Remove 'ums' and 'likes.' Each passage gets an H2 title and ends with a key takeaway. Ready for the first question and answer?So I go through our transcript, I copy paste the question we asked and I copy paste the answer from our guest. Here’s an example from our episode with Scott Brinker.Naturally, the output isn’t always perfect. You’re asking ChatGPT to turn your raw transcript filled with ‘ummms’ and ‘likes’ and probably has several mistranscribed words. So it’s always worth going through it and looking for issues. JT: Yeah that’s a super cool use case for ChatGPT, the output is usually pretty solid and it doesn’t always have that generic GPT signature or style to it because it starts with something vs just asking it to generate something from scratch. So do you move to generating images for each section now?PG: Not yet haha. I actually use ChatGPT to help me write a summary of the episode and suggest variations of titles as well. I start with getting a list of all the takeaways from each section and paste them all into Chat GPT and ask it to come up with a summary based on those takeaways.JT: Very cool… okay now are we ready to move on to Midjourney haha?Getting Started in MidjourneyFirst step here is creating a Discord account if you don’t have one already. Then you’ll want to create your own server so you can generate images in your own private channels. Then you join the Midjourney Beta on their site, that’ll get you invited to the Midjourney Discord server. You can check out the #getting-started channel in there to get some startup instructions. You can start seeing what others are building in any of the #newbie channels. But I prefer building in private so you can hit the ‘Show Member List’, click on the Midjourney bot and then add it to the server you just created. JT: So it’s free up to certain point right?PG: Actually since the Pope Francis in a puffer jacket earlier this year blew up their servers and they now require paid plans for all subscribers.Well worth the $10 to start playing around though. You just need to hit the /subscribe command in Discord and you’ll get a link to sign up. JT: One thing I find fascinating playing with DALL-E myself is that a lot of your illustrations and images have a crazy likeness to our guests. Are you gonna share the secret sauce behind that?PG: Yeah this is a bit of trial and error and I can drop some screenshots in the blog post version of this episode but it all starts with another Discord bot. It’s called Picsi.AI by InsightFaceSwap Bot.It’s a highly realistic portrait creation tool that you can use for free with their Discord invitation, or head over to Patreon to subscribe and access more features and higher usage limits.The creators are InsightFace.ai, an open source Python library that offers 2D and 3D face analysis. It efficiently brings together top-notch face recognition, detection, and alignment algorithms. It's designed for performance, both in training and deployment phases. Both research institutes and businesses stand to benefit from using InsightFace. Picking your styleJT: Another thing that lots of people comment on that I think is awesome about your art is how consistent it is. You can just tell that’s Humans of Martech. That’s something I’ve struggled with playing around in DALL-E rarely can I come up with two things using the same prompt that feel the same. How do you accomplish that?PG: Yeah picking your style in Midjourney is one of the most important steps. At first you want to experiment and play around with a variation of style prompts and once you have something you like. Save it. There’s probably thousands of styling permutations and combinations that can give you a pretty unique style. You can reference specific styles like cyberpunk, 8-bit, cubism, pop art. You can reference styles from video games like Zelda, GTA or Firewatch. You can also reference famous artists like Picasso, Davinci, Warhol, Kubrick and Tolkien. You can stick to real life and even reference specific cameras and lenses.I went through a bunch of my favorite ones in my virtual talk at MOPSapaloza all using the same prompt, be sure to check out the blog post for these images.Adding images to your blog postJT: So are we comfortable having you reveal the prompt?PG: Yeah I mean I dropped it at MOPSapaloza and on the Martech Podcast. But folks can also take one of our images and using the /Describe command Midjourney can spit out a prompt that’s probably close to what I use. I’ve settled on 3 recurring keywords in my prompt:Flat illustration: simple, two-dimensional elements and bright colors. It avoids gradients, shadows, and textures to achieve a clean and straightforward lookModern: characterized by simplicity, function, and clean lines. It avoids excessive ornamentation and often embraces new materials and technologiesGeometric: clean lines and basic shapes like squares and triangles. It's minimal, precise, and oft...

Summary: We explored the dynamic intersection of StratOps and marketing operations, emphasizing the fusion of traditional marketing foundations with evolving tech trends for effective strategy formulation. Darrell emphasizes balancing technical skills with strategic acumen for career progression in marketing, and the need for diverse career paths beyond managerial roles. We also touched upon the transformative impact of no-code tools and the ever-changing martech landscape, highlighting the importance of a product management approach in martech stack management and the value of experienced professionals in tackling technical debt. We finish with insights on effective knowledge management, internal communication strategies, and the need for harmonizing front-end and back-end functions in martech operations to align with overarching company goals.What’s up everyone, today we have the pleasure of sitting down with Darrell Alfonso, Director of Marketing Strategy and Operations at Indeed.com. About DarrellDarrell began his career at Trumpia wearing multiple hats and later joined Leaf Group to lead a team focused on demand generation and marketing automationHe then took on the role of Director of Global Marketing at Hitwise, a data enrichment startup and later served as Director of Communications at the American Marketing Association, focusing on educational contentHe then ventured into the enterprise world into the esteemed role of Global Marketing Operations Lead at Amazon Web Services, the widely adopted cloud data platformDarrell’s also a Course Instructor at MarTech Alliance for a brand new 8 week course on all things Marketing OperationsHe’s the author of the Martech Handbook, covering effective use and scaling of martech with case studies and expert insightsAnd most recently he’s moved over to Indeed.com as their Director of Marketing Strategy and OperationsDarrell, thanks so much for your time today. I feel like this is a long time in the making, we probably should’ve had you on years ago, truly appreciate all the love you’ve given us.Reinventing Marketing Operations with Strategic PlanningDarrell was a keynote speaker at MOps-Apalooza a few months ago and walked the audience through his refreshed pillars of MOPs success. He dived into the transformative approach he has developed for marketing operations, focusing on strategic operations (StratOps). This concept represents a significant shift from the traditional technology-centric model to a more holistic, strategy-focused framework. Darrell's initiative, developed in collaboration with industry leaders like Mike Rizzo, aims to realign marketing operations with broader business objectives.Historically, marketing operations has been synonymous with budget planning and organizational design. However, in recent years, the focus has expanded to include technology management. Darrell emphasizes that these behind the scenes components, though seemingly abstract, play a crucial role in a marketing team's functionality. The new framework he proposes integrates traditional aspects of marketing operations with the evolving demands of martech, signaling a union of past practices and current trends.Darrell’s new pillars of MOPs success:Technology management (platform ops, engineering)StratOps (budget, planning)Enablement and PMO (PM, process design, adoption)BI + Insights (reporting, analytics)Darrell's personal involvement in the development and oversight of StratOps within his team highlights the practical application of these concepts. The transition to strat ops involves answering complex questions that impact a marketing team's operations, such as deciding between centralized or decentralized structures, optimizing the use of technology stacks, and involving legal teams in campaign management. These critical questions, previously scattered across various departments, are now being centralized under the strat ops function, demanding a more cohesive and strategic approach.Key takeaway: Emphasizing StratOps within marketing operations leads to a more cohesive and comprehensive strategy. This approach effectively combines traditional marketing foundations, such as budgeting and planning, with the continuously evolving trends in technology. By integrating these elements, marketing teams can craft strategies that are both grounded in proven methods and agile enough to adapt to new tech advancements. This balance ensures that marketing initiatives are not only technologically advanced but also strategically sound, maximizing the impact and efficiency of marketing efforts in a dynamic business environment.Balancing Technical Skills and Strategy in Marketing OpsDarrell shares his insights on the balance between platform knowledge and strategic skills. This topic is particularly relevant in the martech field, where professionals often grapple with the decision of prioritizing technical skills or broader strategic understanding. Darrell's perspective, shaped by his experience and industry polls, offers valuable guidance for marketing professionals at different stages of their careers.In the early stages of a marketing career, Darrell advises focusing on in-demand technical skills. His reasoning is based on job security, a crucial factor in today's dynamic job market. Mastering technical aspects like platform knowledge can provide a solid foundation and open up various opportunities. Darrell reflects on his career journey, noting that such skills have been a significant factor in the professional growth of many, including himself.However, as one's career progresses and reaches a subject matter expert level, Darrell suggests a shift in focus. He recommends dedicating more time to developing strategic skills while maintaining technical expertise. This advice stems from his observation of the industry, where professionals often continue to emphasize technical skills, potentially limiting their career growth and impact. Switching the focus to strategy can lead to a surge in career progression and the ability to drive more significant results.Darrell's approach is not just theoretical but is backed by his surveys on LinkedIn. While the initial poll indicated that platform knowledge was most beneficial, the follow-up survey revealed that strategy is often viewed as the strongest skill set among marketing professionals. This discrepancy highlights a common aspiration among marketers to excel in strategy, even if their day-to-day work is more technical.Key takeaway: For marketing professionals, the path to career advancement involves a strategic shift in focus. Early in your career, prioritize developing in-demand technical skills for job security and growth. As you become a subject matter expert, transition your focus towards strategy, dedicating more effort to understanding and implementing broader business strategies. This balance between technical proficiency and strategic acumen is key to maximizing impact and progressing in the marketing operations field.Navigating Career Paths in Marketing OperationsDarrell explores the nuances of career development in marketing operations, focusing on the transferability of skills across different platforms and the unique journey of individual contributors. His insights provide a valuable perspective for professionals considering their career trajectory within the martech industry.Darrell points ...

Summary: Sara offers practical advice for martech pros: emphasizing data literacy for informed marketing decisions, advocating simple attribution models in B2B contexts, and highlighting the balanced integration of engineering expertise in martech strategies. She underscores the significance of AI in automating tasks while stressing the importance of human-centric skills like communication in an AI-enhanced marketing world.What’s up everyone, on today’s celebratory 100th episode of the podcast, we’re incredibly pumped to chat with the legendary Sara McNamara, Senior Manager, Marketing Operations at Salesforce.About SaraSara got her start at Cloud on Tap as a Salesforce Pardot Marketing Automation Consultant where she completed 30+ Pardot implementations in under 2 yearsShe took her Ops talents to Cheshire Impact, a Select Pardot and Salesforce Partner before moving to an in-house Automation Manager role administrating 3 instances of PardotHer journey led her to a pivotal role at Cloudera, an open-source data platform for enterprise where she was quickly promoted to Senior Marketing Operations Manager after leading 2 enterprise MAP migrations in 6 monthsShe’s advised marketing leaders at companies like Google and PayPal on how to find and attract the best MOPs talentShe’s also a Member of 3 key communities; RevGenius, Women in Revenue and PavilionShe holds over 30+ licenses and certifications across popular martech and her work has been recognized by Pardot, Salesforce, Drift, and othersWhen Cloudera was on the exit ramp, Sara made a mega-move to Slack. As Senior Manager of Marketing Transformation & Innovation, she had a big job shaping things up at a massive scale But after a year of making waves, Salesforce swept in and bought Slack. That meant Sara's SFDC/Pardot hot takes and spicy industry insights came to an end But let's be clear: Sara's brilliance hasn't dimmed one bit. If you're navigating the murky waters of MOPs or crafting your own career path, she's your north star. She's not just a source of marketing knowledge—she's arguably the finest guidepost out there for career insightsSara thanks so much for making our 100th episode extra special and taking the time to chat with us 🙏🙏🙏The Importance of Acquiring Practical Data Skills for MarketersData literacy is essential for modern marketing. Sara discusses how marketers can improve these skills and foster a data-informed culture. She emphasized the importance of understanding data beyond the hype of AI, suggesting that while AI may eventually play a significant role in analytics, marketers must first clearly define their objectives and strategies.Sara's perspective is that marketing should be run like a business, with a focus on practical data skills tailored to the specific tools and needs of the business. She advises against getting bogged down in learning specific languages or tools unless they are directly relevant to one’s business environment. For example, learning Tableau is beneficial, but only if it aligns with the tools used in one's specific business context.The key, according to Sara, is for marketers to be sufficiently skilled in data to not rely entirely on analytics teams for basic questions like campaign effectiveness or budget allocations. This approach doesn't mean replacing data scientists but rather complementing their work by being able to independently handle high-level data interpretations. This self-sufficiency in data handling can significantly streamline processes and reduce dependency on centralized analytics teams.Sara also touched on the ability to scrutinize and trust the outputs of AI-driven analytics. In an era where AI is increasingly creating dashboards and reports, the ability to critically assess these outputs is crucial. Marketers need to develop the skill to not just accept these data presentations at face value but to evaluate their accuracy and relevance.Key takeaway: For marketers in the martech era, developing data literacy is less about mastering specific tools and more about understanding and applying data in the context of their specific business environment. This involves a balance of acquiring practical data skills, fostering a data-informed culture within teams, and being critical of AI-generated analytics to ensure accuracy and relevance.Why Attribution Should be Used as a Directional GuideMarketing attribution, particularly in the context of B2B enterprises, presents a unique set of challenges. Sara, drawing from her experience in enterprise-level marketing and consulting for smaller teams, shared her insights on this topic. She believes that attribution should be seen as directional rather than a definitive science. Despite the allure of discovering a 'golden path' to customer conversion, Sara's experience reveals that such a path is elusive.In her journey, she observed teams of data scientists dedicating substantial resources to unravel the mysteries of the perfect marketing attribution model. The revelation, however, was quite different from what was expected. Instead of a single path, a few key channels emerged as significant, with webinars being a standout. The realization that customers who converted often attended a webinar before making a purchase was a critical insight, guiding strategic investment in effective channels.Sara's philosophy revolves around the question, "Is the juice worth the squeeze?" In her view, excessive focus on perfecting attribution is not just futile but also comes with an opportunity cost. She advocates for prioritizing experiments in new channels and enhancing campaigns in known, directionally effective channels over obsessing about perfect attribution.Sara cautions against using attribution as a tool for justifying marketing's existence within an organization. She perceives this as a cultural or relational issue rather than one that can be resolved through data. When attribution turns into a tool for internal blame games, it fails to contribute constructively to organizational goals. She emphasizes the importance of addressing trust and relational dynamics first before relying on data to prove a point.Key Takeaway: Marketers should view attribution as a directional guide rather than an exact science. Focusing on proven channels and experimenting with new ones can be more fruitful than striving for perfect attribution. Additionally, it's vital to recognize that attribution is not a panacea for underlying cultural or trust issues within an organization.How to Pick a Marketing Attribution ModelSo practically speaking, how do you actually go about attribution? Is it first touch, last touch, influence on pipeline, incremental reporting and experiments, multi touch, marketing mix modeling, self reporting… or something else? Sara’s take on this question is a breath of fresh air. Attribution, as Sara notes, is not an exact science but a directional tool. Her experience reveals that while specific marketing channels, like webinars, can be influential in the customer journey, there is no single path that guarantees conversion. This insight is crucial for marketers who might otherwise invest excessive resources in seeking a definitive attribution model.Her practical philosophy, summarized as "is the juice worth the squeeze?", suggests that the effort put into perfecting attribution should be proportional to the benefits it yields. Rather than obsessing over perfecting it, she advises focusing on areas with a clear, positive impact, such as experimenting with new channels or strengthening the ones that show directional success. This approach aligns w...

What’s up folks, if you follow the show you know that we wrap up each conversation by delving into how our guests manage to juggle their personal and professional lives while maintaining their well-being and career success. Our most popular episode continues to be our compilation of insights on this very topic. Due to its popularity, we've decided to revisit this format and bring you a fresh perspective with new voices and reflections. I’ve categorized all 23 of our guests’ answers into 7 categories:Passion and meaningful workValues and prioritiesPhysical health and routinesCuriosity and learningAppreciating what we have nowGiving backRelationshipsMain takeaway: Balance is a continuous journey rather than a final destination, involving passion alignment, personal recharging, and appreciation of life's path, including those who accompany us along the way. And never underestimate the power of a well-timed 'no' to maintain balance and propel your journey forward.Igniting Passion and Finding Meaningful WorkLet’s start with the internal flame that motivates all else. 3 of our guests emphasized passion and finding meaningful work as the key to happiness and success.Harnessing Passion for Professional and Personal FulfillmentLucie De Antoni, Head of Marketing at Garantmehttps://humansofmartech.com/2023/09/26/90-lucie-de-antoni-startup-alchemy-attribution/ The key to a fulfilling life, Lucie posits, is to weave one's passions into the fabric of their daily lives, both in personal and professional realms. While the notion might echo familiar sentiments, for her, it serves as the engine of daily motivation. This approach isn't about blindly following joy; it involves critical reflection and the transformation of lackluster experiences into positive ones.Lucie treats her engagement with AI not just as a job but as an integral part of her life's canvas, indicating a seamless integration of work with personal interests. This blend is increasingly rare in a world that often dichotomizes professional and personal life. Her strategy includes a pragmatic approach to time management, a learned skill that she has honed over her career. Lucie now exercises discernment in her work, asking whether late hours are truly necessary or if they encroach upon her personal time.Her journey towards finding balance has been iterative, a process marked by growth and the ability to prioritize more effectively than she could just months before. Lucie attributes part of this evolution to the people she surrounds herself with, suggesting that a supportive network can significantly influence one's ability to maintain equilibrium.Building a career that resonates with one's values is not without its challenges. Lucie acknowledges that recognizing one's strengths and facing obstacles head-on is essential, yet she also stresses the importance of choice. It's about alignment—ensuring that professional actions and personal values are in concert.Key Takeaway: True happiness emerges from the intersection of passion, self-reflection, and the prudent management of one's time and choices. Lucie’s experience underlines the importance of integrating personal passions with professional endeavors, the power of a supportive network, and the continuous journey towards balancing various aspects of life. In essence, fulfillment is about doing what you love, prioritizing what matters, and sometimes, having the wisdom to say no.Embracing the Momentum of Passionate WorkMichael Katz, CEO and co-founder at mParticlehttps://humansofmartech.com/2023/09/05/87-michael-katz-the-evolution-of-packaged-cdps/ At the heart of a fulfilling life, according to MK, is the enjoyment of one's endeavors. He prioritizes his roles not by societal standards, but by personal significance, with fatherhood at the pinnacle. His career, while varied and demanding, trails behind his family in his list of priorities. This clear hierarchy is the cornerstone of his contentment, allowing him to approach his other roles with a grounded perspective.MK's experience has taught him that the objective isn't merely to become adept at riding the rollercoaster of entrepreneurship but to reach a state where the highs and lows no longer dictate his emotional landscape. The concept of equanimity emerges as a desired state—one where external circumstances lose their grip on one’s inner peace. This is not an attitude of disengagement, but rather a refined approach to emotional investment in the business world.His philosophy is crystallized in a dinner conversation with a friend, echoing Lupe Fiasco's words. The common adage of pursuing happiness is, in his view, a misguided one. Instead, MK posits that the pursuit itself ought to be happiness. Finding joy, meaning, and growth in one's work is the real measure of whether one is on the right path. It's a subtle but profound shift from happiness as a goal to happiness as the journey.MK gauges his alignment with his work through his emotions—the excitement of starting a new week and the anxious drive at the week's end, fearing time was not maximized. The day these feelings invert is the day he’ll reconsider his commitments. This barometer of passion versus productivity serves as his compass, keeping him engaged in work that fuels rather than drains him.Key Takeaway: Defining success on your own terms involves identifying what brings you intrinsic joy and pursuing it with relentless passion. MK’s reflections remind us that true happiness in our professional lives is achieved when we relish the journey itself, not just the milestones along the way. When work aligns with our values and excites us consistently, we find ourselves exactly where we need to be.Harnessing Passion as the Antidote to BurnoutJuan Mendoza, the CEO of The Martech Weeklyhttps://humansofmartech.com/2023/07/04/78-juan-mendoza-the-ethics-of-generative-ai-trust-transparency-and-the-threat-of-dehumanization/Juan draws his inspiration from an unconventional yet stirring source—Steve Irwin, the iconic Crocodile Hunter. Irwin's fervent commitment to wildlife conservation becomes a beacon for Juan, illustrating how unwavering passion can fuel both happiness and success. Like Irwin, Juan is energized by a mission that transcends mere occupation; for him, it's about making sense of the tangled web of technology and marketing, aiming to illuminate paths for others within this intricate maze.Juan's dedication to his work keeps him up into the wee hours, not out of obligation but from a deep-seated enthusiasm for discovery and education. This zeal parallels Irwin's approach, who was not merely a television personality but a fervent educator and conservationist. Juan recognizes that to be successful and fulfilled, one must be driven by a cause that ignites a “red hot passion,” much like the one that powered Irwin's every action.The notion that such passion is “kryptonite to burnout” encapsulates Juan's philosophy. It's this intensity that sustains him, allowing for extended work hours without the usual fatigue. However, he doesn’t neglect the fundamentals—adequate sleep, healthy eating, exercise, and maintaining relationships. These are the building blocks that support the demands of a passiona...

In October, Google announced new guidelines that went unheard by many email marketers. They released a blog post as well. Yahoo also followed suit. There’s a lot of misguided commentary about the specifics of it, so today we’re going to break down some of the most important changes taking effect and why you should care. Main Takeaway: Google and Yahoo's recent guidelines largely reaffirm established best practices in email marketing. However, a key new detail is the public disclosure of a 0.3% spam complaint rate threshold. While exceeding this rate in a single instance won't immediately land you in the spam folder or get you blocked, it's a clear signal of stricter enforcement ahead. Maintaining a consistently low complaint rate is crucial, as repeatedly crossing the 0.3% mark will now lead to more severe consequences than before. NOTE: This episode is based on my personal knowledge, recent research as well as chatting with top 1% experts. However, I’m not a lawyer and nothing here should be construed as legal advice.New Email Sender GuidelinesAs of Feb 2024: Failing to follow these new guidelines will potentially result in Gmail limiting sending rates, blocking messages, or marking messages as spam. They haven’t made it clear what result is applied to what guidelines. Lots of folks are claiming that any of these will lead to you being blocked by Google, forever. While that’s possible, it’s not likely.Another misconception I’ve seen from plenty of folks is that this only applies to BULK senders, people with 5k daily email traffic. This is false. While Google wrote a spectacularly unclear and poorly structured document, it is pretty clear that most of the guidelines apply to ALL SENDERS. So if you misread and told yourself this isn’t a big deal because you don’t send 5k emails to Google users per day, you’re in for a world of pain.Here’s the TL;DR on the guidelines, they are essentially the same 6 for all senders and bulk senders, except bulk senders have a few extras.All senders Set up SPF and DKIM authSet up forward and reverse DNS recordsKeep spam rates below 0.3%Follow RFC 5322 for formatDon’t use a from @gmail.com account in your ESPAdd ARC headers, List-id: headerBulk senders (5k or more emails per day)Set up SPF and DKIM authSet up forward and reverse DNS recordsKeep spam rates below 0.3%Follow RFC 5322 for formatDon’t use a from @gmail.com account in your ESPAdd ARC headers, List-id: headerSet up DMARCSupport one-click unsubscribe, and include unsubscribe linksWe’d need a whole series to cover all of these so we won’t go into each. You probably should’ve already been following the majority of these in the first place. We had a decent episode that covered authentication, SPF, DKIM and DMARC. RFC standards, ARC headers and one click unsub is generally adopted by most legit ESPs.I want to focus on 2 key changes that might be misconstrued or require a bit more digging and explanation:Spam rates in PMT below 0.3%Don’t impersonate gmail from headersKeep spam rates reported in Postmaster Tools below 0.3%The biggest one and the one that’s most talked about is the 0.3% spam report threshold. Most senders don’t need to worry about this. If you have been following best practices for email like expressed opt-in consent and making it easy for people to unsubscribe, you don’t have major spam complaints. But not everyone falls in this bucket, and even if you do, you might not get off that easy going forward. This is especially freaking out people that do bulk outbound/cold marketing using email. If you’re not already set up using Google Postmaster to monitor your domain and IP reputation and related metrics, do it now.  This has actually been a common unwritten rule by mailbox providers (MBP) in the past, anything above 0.3% would potentially cause reputation issues. MBP also do plenty of sneaky things like counting the number of inactive accounts that got your email so you can’t dilute the ratio of complaints you get. I think the change here is that it will be more severe now that the threshold is public. What’s spam rates exactly?There’s actually some misalignment from experts when it comes to the true definition of this metric. Based on this Google Postmaster FAQ, the spam rate isSpam rate = number of spam complaints from Google users / number of active Google user recipient accounts that landed outside of spam/junk.It makes sense that it's only for active accounts and for emails that landed outside junk because emails in junk can’t be marked as spam again. So if a substantial number of your emails start actually landing in spam, you could see a low spam rate, even though that wouldn’t be positive. What does this mean in terms of volume sent to Google accounts?Let’s break down the impact of 0.3% further:If you send 10,000 emails in 1 day, you need less than 30 spam complaintsIf you send 5,000 emails in 1 day, you need less than 15 spam complaintsIf you send 1,000 emails in 1 day, you need less than 3 spam complaintsIf you send 333 emails in 1 day, you can’t get more than a single spam complaintSo if your newsletter of 10,000 subscribers is going out in Feb next year, how confident are you that you’ll get less than 30 people marking it as spam?And if you’re sending cold emails to 50 people per day, how confident are you that you won’t get at least 1 spam complaint? (2% spam rate)How to monitor spam: Postmaster discrepanciesRegardless of the exact definition, for the sake of the new Google guidelines, the number you need to keep an eye on is the one in Google Postmaster Tools. We know for sure that Postmaster does not include any other mailbox providers.Interestingly, it’s unclear if Postmaster includes only @gmail.com accounts or @gmail.com accounts AND Google workspace accounts. I think it’s a fair assumption though that if Workspace data isn’t going to Postmaster yet, it’s probably only a matter of time. So it’s not as easy as segmenting your list by @gmail.com. Sorry. If you’re thinking, well my ESP gives me complaint data, I don’t need to monitor Postmaster. First of all you should because Google is basing their new 0.3% limit based on Postmaster data. Secondly, you can’t rely on the complaint reporting in your ESP for this. Google doesn’t send spam complaint data to ESPs. So what you see in your ESPs is spam complaints from inbox providers that share that data through FBL (feedback loops), Google does not share this with ESPs.The only way to monitor this metric (at least for Google’s sake) is to look at your complaints rates in GPMT over the last 120 days. How have you performed recently? If you have a few spikes here and there in the 0.2%-0.4% I would bet that you’re probably okay. Google is likely to start by penalizing senders who regularly get over 0.3%... the definition of regular is wha...

What’s up folks, today we’re joined by Lauren Aquilino, Founder & Principal Consultant @ EMMIE Collective.Summary: The essence of Lauren’s message transcends the specifics of MOPs; it's about the symbiosis between finding work that resonates on a personal level and the professional ecosystem that supports it. This is where fulfillment is found, and where problems are not just tasks but puzzles that invigorate the marketer. Her advice was not mere commentary but a call to action for marketing professionals to document their victories, engage with communities, and redefine the value of mops within their organizations, ensuring that the role is not just sustained but celebrated for its strategic importance.About LaurenLauren started her career as a Campaign Manager at Hyland, an enterprise content service provider where she spent 5 and a half years working her way up to Marketing Analyst and later Team Lead of the Demand ProgramsShe later took on the role of Marketing Automation Operations Manager at GE where she owned Marketo and set the global marketing automation strategy across other martech tools as wellIn 2017, Lauren left the in-house world and joined the dark side of agency at Revenue Pulse as a Principal Consultant. There she would become a 2x Marketo Champion and Certified Expert as well as a Salesforce Certified AdminAfter taking a career break as a Covid-era homeschool teacher and wrangler of a fearless toddler and attempting to open a coffee shop in a dilapidated 1840s church, Lauren became a yolopreneurAugust 1st 2022. She joined forces with the acclaimed Sydney Mulligan to launch EMMIE CollectiveEMMIE is a for-hire network of marketing Ops and Sales Ops freelancers with big tech energyShe’s also the cohost of Pretty Funny Business, Lauren’s nonsensical playground brand for the hell of it, a hilarious new podcast with the top marketing and MOPs prosThe Accidental Genesis of EMMIE CollectiveWhen Lauren delved into the creation story of EMMIE Collective, she shared a narrative that many entrepreneurs can resonate with—success often sprouts from the seeds of adversity. Lauren’s journey began not with a deliberate intention to start a martech freelancer network but as a response to the upheaval of COVID-19. The decision to step back from her role at Revenue Pulse was pivotal. Faced with the complexities of juggling work and a young family under the constraints of a pandemic, Lauren sought to keep everyone on one schedule. This pursuit of work-life balance inadvertently set the stage for EMMIE Collective’s inception.The ambition to purchase a church, a dream stemming from Lauren's passion for creating a communal third space, ironically nudged her back to work. Subcontracting for a friend in unfamiliar territory with Pardot became a catalyst for growth. Lauren’s adaptability and openness to learn were instrumental, emphasizing that it’s not the tools that define success, but the fit for the business and the individual’s capability to harness them effectively. What started as a solo venture quickly evolved, and Lauren found herself at the helm of a growing consultancy.Lauren’s story highlighted the organic nature of EMMIE Collective's expansion—how one client led to another, and how one consultant brought in another, embodying the adage of building the airplane while flying it. The addition of Sydney to the team was serendipitous, aligning perfectly with the needs of the collective. Her reputation and skills added significant value, illustrating the strength of forming strategic alliances based on mutual respect and opportunity.Key Takeaway: EMMIE Collective stands as a testament to the unexpected paths that lead to entrepreneurial success. It serves as a sanctuary for those who’ve grown weary of the corporate grind, offering a collaborative network that thrives on flexibility, respect, and mutual growth. Lauren’s experience is a reminder that sometimes, the best outcomes arise from the most challenging situations, and that embracing change can pave the way for unforeseen opportunities.The Multifaceted Benefits of Side Hustles in MarketingWhen Lauren was asked about the impact of side hustles on her career, she offered an insightful perspective that extends beyond the conventional wisdom. She champions the idea of side hustles not merely as additional streams of income but as avenues for personal fulfillment and professional development. Lauren's stance is that side hustles should be passion-driven endeavors, aligning with one's interests, such as yoga in her example, to ensure they serve as a complement rather than a detractor from one's quality of life.Lauren’s experience underlines the necessity for marketers to cultivate interests outside their core job, especially when their work is highly technical and the threat of feeling replaceable looms. In her view, this sense of replaceability is exacerbated when one's day job lacks a deeper sense of purpose or is entrenched in a profit-driven environment. Side hustles, therefore, can act as a counterbalance, offering a sense of uniqueness and value that one’s primary occupation might not provide.Moreover, Lauren's reflections on EMMIE Collective’s business model reveals the value of side hustles in creating a flexible work ecosystem.The collective’s freelancers, including a standout Salesforce admin named Nikki who also runs a skincare business, demonstrate that a side hustle can sometimes become the main hustle. This fluidity showcases how side hustles can evolve and adapt to one's changing career aspirations and personal goals.Key Takeaway: Lauren's discourse invites marketers to reassess the role of side hustles in their lives. It's not just about having a secondary job; it's about finding joy and purpose outside of one's primary employment. Side hustles can enhance skills, diversify income, and most importantly, provide a fulfilling escape from the replaceable nature of technical roles. For those looking to embark on such a journey, Lauren suggests seeking out passions that could lead to professional opportunities, creating a harmonious blend of work and personal satisfaction.EMMIE Collective's Answer to In-House Marketing StabilityLauren discussed the unique challenges in-house marketing teams face and how EMMIE Collective addresses them with its network of consultants. Her insights delve into the nuanced struggles of businesses desperate for stability in their marketing operations. Contrary to what one might expect, Lauren finds that clients are often open to the collective's unconventional setup, likely due to the network's reputation and the trust it engenders.The drive for stability is at the forefront of client concerns, especially as the market continues to wobble between a surplus of talent due to layoffs and a drought caused by high turnover. Lauren’s collective steps into this breach, not just offering expertise, but also a promise of consistency that's hard to find in the volatile job market. Where companies are grappling with the financial and operational repercussions of high turnover, EMMIE Collective provides a team that can absorb these shocks.Clients have embraced the collective’s model, finding comfort in the assurance that their operations will continue unimpeded, even if an individual consultant moves on. This safety net is particularly valuable in specialized areas where training and expertise are not easily replicated. Lauren shared an anecdote about a client who, instead o...

What’s up everyone, today we’re joined by Natalie Miles, Head of Marketing Technology at Chime.Summary: Don't underestimate the role of generalists in martech; they're your go-to for system-level thinking and breaking down data silos. Building vs buying your tech stack? It's not black and white; successful setups usually mix both, and including engineers in the decision process is non-negotiable. Considering a CDP? Opt for a composable one to get quick value and robust data management. And if you're venturing into personalization, it's your team's culture and process that'll make or break it, not just the tools. Tune into this episode for straight-up, actionable insights that cut through the noise in the martech world.About NatalieNatalie started her career as a Financial Counselor at the Consumer Credit Counseling Services of San Francisco She then took on the role of Quality Assurance Specialist at Lending Club, a fintech marketplace bank where she was eventually promoted to Operations AnalystNatalie then moved over to Credit Karma, best known for pioneering free credit scores where she started as a Marketing Operations Analyst and was later promoted to Marketing Operations ManagerAnd for the last 3 years, she’s been Head of Marketing Technology at Chime, a fintech company that offers no-fee savings accounts, where she’s built and managed a holistic Martech stack supporting all channels and functions within the Marketing orgThe Intersection of Financial Empathy and Marketing OperationsWhen asked about her transition from financial counseling to marketing operations, particularly within FinTech, Natalie illuminates how her upbringing and career have been tightly woven with mission-driven personal finance companies. Shaped by her experiences in a working-class household and graduating amid a historic economic crisis, Natalie's focus has been on transforming legacy institutions that often operate on zero-sum models—those that profit when the customer suffers. Her goal? To align business value directly with user value. Natalie also emphasizes the importance of having a generalist background when working in marketing technology. She points out that her diverse experiences, including her time as a financial counselor, have enriched her understanding of system-level thinking—a key asset for any marketing technologist. It wasn't just about marketing; it was about leveraging technology to make different teams more efficient, whether they were marketing or support teams.In her journey through the marketing landscape, Natalie discusses the evolution from specializing in lifecycle marketing to adopting a more generalist approach once again. She believes that understanding the pain points in one marketing channel provides insights that are transferable across other channels. This is vital because while each channel has its own nuances, they also share common threads that are integral to driving growth or achieving specific business outcomes. Natalie underscores the concept of the "T-shaped marketer," a term often used in marketing discussions to describe professionals who start by specializing in a specific channel but gradually broaden their scope. This broad understanding is crucial in the realm of marketing technology, where preventing data silos and powering omni-channel journeys are key.Key Takeaway: Having a generalist background isn't just about being a jack-of-all-trades; it's about mastering system-level thinking. This kind of broad perspective is invaluable in marketing technology, where understanding how various components interact can significantly improve efficiency and effectiveness. By being well-versed in multiple areas, you're better equipped to tackle complex challenges and integrate solutions that drive measurable results.The Power of Generalism in a Specialized Marketing WorldWhen asked about the value of a generalist background in martech, Natalie explained that many marketing organizations structure themselves around specific channels, but doing so can have its drawbacks. Specialists may be excellent at understanding the intricacies of a particular channel like Google Search but may lack a broader understanding of how to harmonize different channels for an integrated, omni-channel experience.Natalie pointed out an often-overlooked aspect of specialized teams: they often onboard tools designed to solve specific channel needs. While this specialization can drive short-term success, it often fails to consider the bigger picture. As marketing complexity grows and companies aim for more personalized, omni-channel experiences, the need for someone who can tie all these disparate elements together becomes increasingly important.In the startup world, this is especially significant. Startups usually kick off with generalists who can wear multiple hats and pivot as needed. As the company matures, specialists are added to the mix. Natalie highlighted the risks of over-indexing on channel-specific experts. These experts can work in silos, and this compartmentalized approach can be a roadblock when aiming for more intricate marketing strategies that require seamless coordination between channels.One of the most compelling points Natalie made was around marketing organizations that prioritize outcomes over channels. An outcome-oriented approach can enable the same individual to manage paid retargeting ads while also running lifecycle campaigns, for instance. This blend of responsibilities demands a broader skill set and makes the case for generalists who can adapt to multiple marketing scenarios and strategies.Key Takeaway: Don't underestimate the power of generalists in martech. They bring the critical ability to weave together various marketing channels and tools, enabling a more integrated and effective marketing strategy. If your team is too specialized, you risk creating data and strategy silos that can hamper your broader marketing objectives.Martech's Dilemma: Engineering Constraints and the Build vs Buy DebateWhen asked about Casey Winters' article on the notion that martech is essentially for engineers, Natalie offered a nuanced perspective that extends beyond the conventional build-versus-buy debate. Casey argues that martech has evolved as a response to engineering constraints, and lifting these constraints would render third-party martech solutions redundant. Natalie, while a fan of Casey and his work, respectfully disagrees with this one-dimensional view. She highlights a reality most businesses face: the absence of unlimited engineering resources. In her experience, this constraint justifies the need for third-party solutions, especially when internal solutions often lack marketer-friendly user interfaces.Natalie touched on the complexity of allocating engineering resources effectively, particularly in sectors like FinTech. Should a FinTech company spend its limited engineering capital on building martech products, or should it focus on actual financial products that drive consumer growth? She suggests that the more pressing question businesses should be asking isn't whether to build or buy, but where to best align their engineering resources in line with their core competencies. This consideration often leads to a blend of in-house and third-party solutions in a company's martech stack.Narrowing the definition of martech to just third-party solutions is, in Natalie's view, a limiting approach. She emphasizes that most martech stacks will inevitably be a mix of both built and bought solutions. This mix arises because even when buying a solution, substantial engineerin...