Imaginary Worlds

In honor of the release of Wicked, we’re hitching a ride on a tornado to hear three different stories about Oz. We hear how the “rainbow chaser” L. Frank Baum failed at every career he tried until he sat down to write The Wizard of Oz. We learn about Baum’s frenemy W.W. Denslow, who illustrated The Wizard of Oz, and then tried to create a competing franchise. And we learn how the author of the Russian translation of The Wizard of Oz convinced the public (with the help of the Soviet government) that the story was written in the USSR. Featuring authors Michael Patrick Hearn, Robert Baum, and Olga Zilberbourg. This week’s episode is brought to you by Henson Shaving, Sol Reader and Dragon Ball Legends Go to solreader.com to and use the code IMAGINARY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase of Sol Reader Limited Edition. Visit hensonshaving.com/worlds to pick the razor for you and use the code WORLDS to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

All Hail Doom! The supreme ruler of Latveria has successfully defeated The Fantastic Four and The Avengers. Marvel Studios is bowing towards his will, casting Robert Downey Jr. as the iconic villain and betting their fortunes on Doctor Doom! But Victor von Doom is more than a classic bad guy. He is one of the most complex characters in Marvel history. I talk with comic book writers Mark Waid, Brian Michael Bendis and Ryan North about the ways they’ve depicted Doctor Doom, from noble intensions gone away to horrific acts of selfishness. And cultural critic Mark Hibbett discusses why he believes the history of Doctor Doom reflects America's ambivalence towards dictators and the role they play on the world stage.  This week's episode is sponsored by Sol Reader and ShipStation Go to solreader.com to and use the code IMAGINARY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase of Sol Reader Limited Edition. Go to shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your FREE 60-day trial. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Horror movies are best known for their monsters and villains – but there’s another half to the equation. The Final Girls who survive horror films and live to see another sequel have been fueling the genre for half a century. Freddie Krueger met his match in Nancy. Michael Myers can’t outwit Laurie. Ripley is the ultimate survivor of Alien movies. But the trope of the Final Girl has gone through an evolution in recent years. I talk with Robin Means Coleman, University of Virginia professor and author of the book Horror Noire, about the underlying issues of race and gender in who gets to be considered a Final Girl, and why she coined the term Enduring Women. Cultural critic Jenika McCrayer guides us through modern day Final Girls, who are more diverse and complex. And PhD student Morgan Podraza maps out the evolution of Jamie Lee Curtis’s character in the Halloween franchise, from innocent high schooler to gun-toting grandma. This week's episode is sponsored by Sol Reader and Henson Saving Go to solreader.com to and use the code IMAGINARY at checkout to receive 15% off your purchase of Sol Reader Limited Edition. Visit hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick the razor for you and use the code “imaginary” to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

For a long time, imagining what alien life could look like was mostly the job of science fiction creators. But in recent years, the field of astrobiology has gotten a boost from the discovery of faraway exoplanets with atmospheres which could support life. In trying to imagine what aliens could look like, scientists have found that science fiction is a good jumping off point. Astrobiologist Michael Wong hosts a science of Star Trek podcast called Strange New Worlds, and biologist Mohamed Noor wrote a book called Live Long and Evolve about what Star Trek can teach us about science. They discuss the influence Star Trek has on the way they question what the building blocks of life could be outside Earth, and what would happen if you rewound the clock of evolution. Plus, Jaime Green talks about her book The Possibility of Life, where she interviewed scientists about which science fiction is asking the right questions about astrobiology. Featuring readings by actor Luke Daniels. This week’s episode is sponsored by ShipStation and TodayTix Go to shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your FREE 60-day trial. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I'm excited to announce that we're starting a new Patreon-only ad-free show called Between Imaginary Worlds, which is a more casual chat show format. In each episode, I talk with different people about what they're excited about in sci-fi fantasy, what they're looking forward to, pet peeves and a lot more. Between Imaginary Worlds is available to people pledging $10 a month or more on Patreon. New episodes appear in between regular episodes of the show in the ad-free feed that comes with a Level 3 or Level 4 Patreon subscription. You can also listen to Between Imaginary Worlds directly on the show’s Patreon page. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Role-playing games like Dungeons & Dragons and Pathfinder aren’t just played in game shops or living rooms. They’re also very popular in prisons – if the prison officials haven’t banned them. I talk with Joseph Krauter, who is formerly incarcerated, and David Annarelli, who is currently incarcerated, about the role that playing games have had on their mental health, personal development and socializing in prison. Plus, they discuss the ways they’ve had to MacGyver whatever they can find into makeshift gaming materials. Michelle Dillon, a board member at Books to Prisoners in Seattle, and Moira Marquis, founder of Prison Banned Books Week and lead author on PEN America’s report on book banning in prisons, explain how prisons have justified banning game books, and their efforts to get those books to incarcerated gamers. This week’s episode is sponsored by Hims, Henson Shaving and TodayTix. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/imaginary. Visit hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick the razor for you and use the code “imaginary” to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the second part of our retrospective on how Imaginary Worlds has covered sci-fi and fantasy since September 2014, we look at the world of gaming. I visit the game shop Sip & Play and talk with the owner Jonathan Li. Game designer and cultural consultant James Mendez Hodes returns to discuss the affect Stranger Things and Critical Role have had on the popularity of D&D, and why the last decade has been a golden age of indie tabletop games. Illinois Tech professors Carly Kocurek and Jennifer deWinter discuss the breakout video games in the last 10 years, and why it’s harder for indie video games to have the same success as indie board games. This week’s episode is sponsored by GreenChef, ShipStation and Hims. Go to greenchef.com/imaginaryclass for 50% off your first box and 50 free credits with ClassPass Go to shipstation.com and use the code “Imaginary” to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Start your free online visit today at hims.com/imaginary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When I began my podcast in September 2014, I was mostly sticking with topics that I was familiar with like blockbuster movies and animation. I liked science fiction, but I was not as familiar with traditional fantasy, literature, tabletop games, and most anime. My understanding of the depth and breadth of imaginary worlds kept expanding, and when I thought I had reached the borders of the universe, I kept discovering more. This show has also become a historical archive of the development of sci-fi fantasy genres since 2014. I talk with journalist Rob Salkowitz and editor Diana M. Pho about how the film industry, comics, and publishing industry have been on their journeys in the past decade. Plus, we hear from listeners about some of the episodes that made an impact on them. This episode is sponsored by Henson Shaving. Visit hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick the razor for you and use code IMAGINARY to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I used to think escape rooms were gimmicky activities where everyone scrambled to solve puzzles while I stood around feeling useless. On the other hand, I love immersive theater, where an interactive play unfolds as you walk through a space. I thought they were very different types of live entertainment. Not anymore. I talk with David and Lisa Spira from the site Escape Room Artist and podcast Reality Escape Pod about how escape rooms are becoming emotionally resonant, sophisticated theatrical works. We go through the haunted escape room Ghost Light at MyssTic Rooms, and I talk with their co-founder and artistic director Gara Roda. Haley E.R. and J. Cameron Cooper of Strange Bird Immersive discuss the innovative ways they designed The Man From Beyond, their Houdini-themed séance escape room. Plus, Victor van Doorn and Francine Boon of the company Sherlocked explore how far they can go in creating a sense of authenticity from the feel of the props to the actors who won’t admit you’re entering an escape room. This episode is sponsored by ShipStation and Hims Go to shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Start your free online visit with Hims at hims.com/imaginary. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The field of audiobooks has exploded since the introduction of mp3 players, and it continues to expand. But it takes a unique set of skills to voice audiobooks in sci-fi and fantasy genres. I talk with audiobook narrators John Pirhalla, Luke Daniels, Amy Landon, and Heath Miller about juggling dozens of voices or accents at the same time, and the kinds of choices they have to make when voicing characters who are not human. We discuss their approach to making dense worldbuilding narration feel like an intimate conversation, and how to voice the game mechanics in Lit RPG books. They have to do all that while competing against a very sci-fi type of threat: AI and voice cloning.   Today’s episode is sponsored by Henson Shaving. Go to https://hensonshaving.com and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. (Note: you must add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply.) Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the years since my 2020 episode Fantasy and Fascism, I knew that I had to make a follow-up episode. The political landscape was changing in ways I didn’t expect while major sci-fi fantasy franchises were reflecting those anxieties. Last time, I focused on how SFF worlds depicted fascism. This time, I wanted to look at the other half of the equation -- why people lose faith in democracy. I interviewed Trinity College Dublin professor David Kenny about his paper on the lessons we can learn from the collapse of the old Republic in Star Wars. I also talked with historian and podcaster Stefan Sasse, and teacher and writer Shawn Taylor about why the New Republic made the same mistakes, and all new ones. Plus, we look at what it takes to maintain democracy in the latest Star Trek shows, and X-Men ’97. Spoilers included. Today’s episode is brought to you by TodayTix, ShipStation and GreenChef. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first TodayTix purchase. Go to shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Go to greenchef.com/imaginary50 and use the code IMAGINARY50 to get 50% off, plus 20% off your next two months. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Who really composed the scores of Dune, Interstellar, Blade Runner 2049, The Dark Knight, Man of Steel, Pirates of the Caribbean and The Lion King? Were they all written by Hans Zimmer? Or were those scores put together by a team of musicians at Hans Zimmer’s studio Remote Control? The podcast Twenty Thousand Hertz went behind-the-scenes and got a rare glimpse at the creative process of one of the most revered film composers in the world. Plus, I talk with Dallas Taylor, the host of 20K Hertz, about why visiting Hans Zimmer’s studio was almost like a religious experience for him. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The hottest trend in fantasy novels – in fact the hottest trend in publishing overall – is fantasy romance or romantasy. These stories take place in worlds with dragons, faeries, vampires and werewolves but the driving plot is romance with a guaranteed happy ending. For many fans of traditional fantasy novels, the fact that romantasy exists may be surprising news. But romantasy is a cultural and economic juggernaut. Dartmouth professor Marcela di Blasi and cultural critic Kayleigh Donaldson explain where romantasy came from and how it became so popular. Fantasy authors C.L. Polk, and J.D. Evans talk about why they came to romantasy and how fans have had to create their own spaces. And Katherine Zofrea gives me a tour of The Ripped Bodice, a romance bookstore with an ample fantasy section. Plus, we hear readings by actress Tanya Rich. In the episode, we heard about some of the most famous romantasy authors like Sarah J. Maas and Rebecca Yarros. Professor Marcela di Blasi is working on a non-fiction book about BIPOC romantasy authors, and she also recommends these books. Anna Marie McLemore’s When The Moon Was Ours Zoraida Cordova's Hollow Crown Duology Analeigh Sbrana's Lore of the Wilds Kimberly Lemming's That Time I Got Drunk and Saved a Demon Sabaa Tahir's An Ember in the Ashes series Gabriela Romero LaCruz's The Sun and the Void Mikayla D. Hornedo's Blood and Brujas Claire Legrand’s Lightbringer trilogy. Today's episode is sponsored by ShipStation, Henson Shaving, TodayTix and Babbel. Go to www.shipstation.com and use the code IMAGINARY to sign up for your free 60-day trial. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. You must add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/imaginary Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Book banning is hitting libraries across America, and many of the titles being banned or challenged are fantasy books or graphic novels – especially LGBTQ content. Malinda Lo has been tracking how her work is being targeted, like her novel Ash which is a queer reimagining of Cinderella. I talk with Malinda about how she’s been tracking the attacks on her work and fighting back. Plus, we hear a version of my 2018 episode Fahrenheit 451 Still Burns featuring Neil Gaiman, whose work is currently banned in several states.  Go to incogni.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Did you know that in retirement, George Lucas decided to host a live talk show with his sidekick Watto? That’s the conceit of The George Lucas Talk Show starring Connor Ratliff (from the podcast Dead Eyes) as Lucas, and Griffin Newman (from The Tick) playing the alien character Watto. They’ve had famous guests on the show, including people who know Lucas in real life. The guests have to pretend that Connor is George. Over the past 10 years, the show had grown into a cult phenomenon to the point where there’s now a documentary about it called, I’m “George Lucas”: A Connor Ratliff Story. Connor and I talk about why he’s fascinated with what defines success or failure, and how it’s become a theme in his work. We also discuss his new podcast Tiny Dinos, which is like a combination of Jurassic Park and The Tonight Show on a micro-scale. This episode is sponsored by TodayTix, Incogni and Henson Shaving. Go to TodayTix.com/imaginary and use the promo code IMAGINARY to get $20 off your first Today Tix purchase. Go to incogni.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get an exclusive 60% off an annual Incogni plan. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary to pick a razor and the use code IMAGINARY to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Over the past 40 years, Shigeru Miyamoto has been inventing the modern video game one pixel at a time. From Donkey Kong to Super Mario Bros to The Legend of Zelda, Miyamoto turned wonder and exploration into game mechanics, and incorporated his personal experiences into his games. I talk with Illinois Institute of Technology dean Jennifer deWinter and Oakland University professor Sam Srauy about how Miyamoto changed Nintendo, and where his influence can be seen in big budget and indie video games today. Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/IMAGINARY Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When Joe Dever died in 2016, he hadn’t written the last several books in his Lone Wolf series. The Lone Wolf books take place in a deeply rich fantasy universe, and they’re written as a combination of choose-your-own-adventure stories and role playing games like D&D. Joe’s final wish was that his son Ben would finish the series for him. However, Ben was unfamiliar with his father’s books, and the legions of Lone Wolf fans he would have to please. I talked with Ben Devere (who spells his last name differently) about the creative, practical, and personal struggles he went through as a writer, and how he was able to get to know his late father by immersing himself in his father’s fantasy world. Jonathan Stark, co-host of the official Lone Wolf podcast Journeys Through Magnamund, explains why Lone Wolf means so much to fans like him, and how he ended up fulfilling his own dreams of writing a Lone Wolf book. Today's episode is sponsored by Henson Shaving, Magic Spoon and Miracle Made. Visit www.hensonshaving.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to get two years' worth of blades free with your razor – just make sure to add them to your cart. Get your next delicious bowl of high-protein cereal at www.magicspoon.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to save five dollars off. Go to www.trymiracle.com/imaginary and use the code IMAGINARY to claim your free 3 piece towel set and save over 40% off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

When the writer Nnedi Okorafor coined the term Africanfuturism, she wanted to distinguish sci-fi written about Africa from Afrofuturism, which is focuses on the experiences of Black people in the diaspora. Africanfuturism mixes the traditional with the futuristic in a way that resembles modern life in Africa, and many of these stories grapple with climate change. Although the writer Chinelo Onwualu says cli-fi isn’t a subgenre for African writers. It’s often baked into a lot of Africanfuturism because the continent is already at the forefront of climate emergencies. And the writers Suyi Davies Okungbowa and Wole Talabi explain that Africanfuturist cli-fi isn’t as dystopian as Western cli-fi. These visions of the future may feel daunting but there is often a sense of hope and the solutions are more community focused. The actress Nneka Okoye reads from their stories, and other works by African writers. This episode is sponsored by Babbel, Surf Shark and Magic Spoon Get up to 60% off at Babbel.com/IMAGINARY Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/IMAGINARY Go to MagicSpoon.com/IMAGINARY and use the code IMAGINARY to save five dollars off Reading list from this episode: Works of Nnedi Okorafor Wole Talabi’s anthology Convergence Problems Suyi Davies Okungbowa's novella Lost Ark Dreaming Chinelo Onwualu’s short story Letters to My Mother Dilman Dila’s story The Leafy Man from the book A Killing in the Sun Mame Bougouma’s story Lekki Lekki from Africanfuturism: An Anthology Omenana Magazine Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Back in 2018, I interviewed language creator David J. Peterson about how he invented Dothraki for Game of Thrones and other fictional languages in fantasy worlds. David and his wife Jessie just finished a huge project – developing the Fremen language for Dune: Part Two. I talk with the couple about their creative process and the challenge of imagining simple English phrases in the Chakobsa language that Frank Herbert imagined in his Dune novels. We also hear my 2018 episode, “Do You Speak Conlang?” where I also talked with Marc Okrand, inventor of the Klingon language, and Robyn Stewart, a language consultant for Star Trek: Discovery. Plus, Jen Usellis -- a.k.a. Klingon Pop Warrior -- will give you a serious case of earworms (not the kind from Wrath of Khan.) For more episodes about Dune, check out my 2017 episode The Book of Dune, where I talked with Muslim fans of the series about the way Frank Herbert incorporated aspects of Islam into the books. And in 2021, I did an episode called The Ecology of Dune where I looked at the environmental messages in the books and whether Frank Herbert’s environmental sensibilities still hold up today. This episode is sponsored by Surfshark and Magic Spoon. Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/imaginary and enter the promo code IMAGINARY for three extra months for free. Get a custom bundle of Magic Spoon cereal at magicspoon.com/imaginary. Enter the promo code IMAGINARY at checkout to save five dollars off. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Wizard of Oz is deeply ingrained into our culture. While many people can practically recite the 1939 movie, the original source material isn’t as well known. The Wonderful Wizard of Oz by L. Frank Baum was published in 1900. There are a lot of theories as to what inspired Baum – but the answer may be who rather than what. Baum’s mother-in-law Matilda Joslyn Gage was a groundbreaking writer and activist who could’ve been in every high school history textbook if she hadn’t had a falling out with the leaders of the suffrage movement. But her ideas live on in The Land of Oz. I talk with historian Sally Roesch Wagner and UNC-Charlotte professor Dina Massachi about the politics of gender in Gage’s works and Baum’s stories. And I talk with therapist Dr. Gita Dorothy Morena who has a very personal connection to the books. Go to https://hensonshaving.com and enter IMAGINARY at checkout to get 100 free blades with your purchase. Remember to add both the 100-blade pack and the razor for the discount to apply. Try Surfshark risk-free with a 30-day money-back guarantee. Get Surfshark VPN at Surfshark.deals/imaginary. Enter the promo code IMAGINARY for three extra months for free!  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices