In My Humble Opinion

Charles Lewis: Welcome to First Person Cville, the podcast. I'm Charles Lewis, your host, and also the co-host of In My Humble Opinion, from 101.3 FM. Marian Dixon was born in Charlottesville. At 80 years old, her wisdom and insights are an inspiration—even if her experiences haven’t always been uplifting. See, Marian knows about intense grief. Marian Dixon: Everybody has their own way of grieving. Some people can get over it faster than others and some of it takes a long time to do. It affects you both mentally and physically. It really does. Charles Lewis: When Marian was just 19 years old, her infant daughter Varinia suddenly died. Marian Dixon: It was just a shock, you know, to play with your baby, nurse her, and then go back to get her up and she's gone. I hadn't cried through our daughter's death. I hadn't cried through making arrangements, the funeral, the burial, none of it. I had not cried. I went from them telling me she was gone into this -- the best I can explain it -- it was like I was in this room inside of a room, and it was like I could see everything going on around me and what everybody was doing, but I was not a part of that. I was just in limbo. I was just there. I wasn't hurting anybody. I just wasn't functioning. I had been going through what they classified massive depression for a while it had been, I guess, a couple of months. And I was standing at the window in my glass box, my invisible glass box, looking out the window. And our oldest daughter, she came into the house and I was standing and she grabbed me by my dress. And she told me, “Mama, [daughter’s name?] is gone, but you still have us.” That was all she said. Which was really shocking to hear a six year old say that. And when she when she said that it was though someone just really hit me in my stomach and I start screaming and crying and I cried and cried. I don't know how long I cried A couple of hours. About two or 3 hours, I don't know. But I cried and cried and I could hear my mama say, “Just leave her alone. Let her get it out. Let her get it out.” And a couple of days after that, I was back to myself. Charles Lewis: So what do you believe is the lesson in all of it? You know, especially when you think about I'm going through grief and depression to that to that level. Like, do you feel like there was a lesson to learn? Marian Dixon: Not necessarily a lesson, but it's just something some time we have to go through. And it does make us stronger on the other side once you get through it. And it's been a lot of things that, as far as my family is concerned and the deaths in my family that I had to go through, but I was better equipped to accept them after going through what I did in the past. It makes it easier for you to deal with other things, especially if something else happens. That fear was there for a while, quite some time. And not realize that we don't have no control over how long a person lives or anything like that. Two years later, we had our middle son. And it was sort of like, we all spoiled him. We were thinking something was going to happen to him. So, we spoiled him. All of us did, is, you know, every time he went to sleep or anything like that is this is sisters and his brothers was looking at him to make sure he was all right, you know. But after that, after, you know, the fear left in that extra fear that was in the back of your mind and left after he began to grow and be with the rest of them. Charles Lewis: Baby Varinia’s death wasn’t the only time that Marian would wrestle with grief. She’s also buried two of adult daughters—and her husband of 60 years. Marian admits that, even though she’s a woman of strong faith, she used to be angry with God. Marian Dixon: I had to humble myself and ask for forgiveness. It was years later when our youngest daughter at that particular time died and I was angry with God. I mean, Rinia was a baby, you can kind of accept that that she was younger. But when your children grow up, you expect them to bury you, not you bury them. We've had to bury two of our daughters as they've been grown. I was more able to with Barbara, I guess, the way she was, she had just started pastoring and all and I really get angry, you know, and I didn't realize it at first. And I had to ask God's forgiveness. Who am that who he created to get mad with him? And then with my, our oldest daughter when she passed, I was more ready to accept it because of the fact she was a pastor, too. I was more able to accept the death of my husband after 60 some years. Yes, I miss him. You know someone about half your life and we were teens when we got married. But I just thank God for the experiences that I have been through. And still might have to go through. Because tomorrow's not promised to you. Next second isn’t. But I thank God for where he already brought me through and where he's taking me. Charles Lewis: One of the reasons the story is so pertinent is that clinical depression is at an all time high. And so what's your words of encouragement to those who are in the middle of it and don't see a way out? Marian Dixon: You know, if you feel yourself getting into a state where you would want to do your self harm or you worried about this one because they're gone. Be able to talk about it. Don't leave it in you. You know, because when things stay in you and you don't talk about them, it's like a cancer and it eats at you. If you need help and you're going through things and it's bothering you, seek help. Seek help. CL: You can find Marion’s story at vinegar hill magazine dot com. We want to hear your story and tell the story of our community together. Share your perspective with First Person Cville at cvilleinclusivemedia.com/projects. The First Person Cville podcast is a production of Charlottesville Inclusive Media. It's hosted by me, Charles Lewis, and the In My Humble Opinion Talk Show. Like what you hear? Subscribe and follow us at imhotalkshow.org. This episode was produced by Kelly Jones. Music for this episode came from Epidemic Sound. IMHO music was from God Vamps by Miguel and Morse with NYC bangers on production. Episode Notes Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Marian Dixon: A Story of Resilience and Hope in the Face of Grief

Charles Lewis: Welcome to First Person Cville, the podcast. I'm Charles Lewis, your host, and also the co-host of In My Humble Opinion, from 101.3 FM. One night—while visiting a friend in New York City—photographer Marley Nichelle had a weird dream.  Marley Nichelle: In the dream it was this woman telling me that I was a messenger. She said, You got to send out the message. And I was like, What message? Like? What is she talking about? CL: The next morning, Marley didn’t have much to do. So they started going through their harddrive, organizing old photos.   Marley Nichelle: And as I was going through all my photos, I was like, while I. I really got some nice portraits of a lot of Black people like we are not opposed, like and that's when it hit me. I said, that's it. And I realized my whole career I have been creating work that surrounds things that are not oppressive. And that's the message.  CL: Marley decided to put together a photo essay to capture that message—in Marley’s own words, they wanted to “create a narrative of liberation and healing for communities of blackness by showing them power through language and visual arts.” And they called the series: “No, We Are Not Oppressed.”  Charles Lewis: How have you used your camera to self liberate as well as liberate others?   Marley Nichelle: Through the stories I tell. As artists, it's our job to evoke emotions. I had to be taught that and not be afraid to. You know, tap to my emotions and how I'm feeling, because honestly, that is what helps me create the world. Liberating work is not just for people, it's for me too. And I feel like every artist should have a way to where they take their pain and trauma, their negatives, their bads, their pain, and make it something beautiful. It’s so important for me when I navigate through my emotions and my healing is like, how do I take these things and put it into art? And a lot of times when I have conversations with people just in Charlottesville, I hear, like I say, hearing people's stories is so heartbreaking and I'm so compassionate because I don't want people feeling that way. Like I don't want Black people here to feel like they can't thrive or they can't succeed because it's so oppressing. And it's like oppression is a mindset for real. It's really a mindset. Llike, when I realized that, I was like, okay, I feel like the easiest way to help people is through art.  And I hate that my work only pertains, like a lot of people do tell me like, you only do work for Black people. I your work is just around like, so run around Black people only like why don't you, you know, have it diverse? And I'd be like, because this is a real life reality of my life. Like this is how I was raised, this is how I grew up. This is all I know. HBCU life, all of those things, like just being around blackness is all I know. I don't want to change that because I benefited from that. Like, I can go anywhere and know that I belong, especially with a camera, you know, and I want to just show other Black people, that too. And you can go anywhere and belong. And I get to tell those stories behind my lens, and that's why I create those liberating stories. And that to me is, is empowering because it's like, yes, figure it out.    Charles Lewis: Now when you have you would people considered oppression In Charlottesville. How has it been different than what oppression may look like in the Gullah Geechee community?   Marley Nichelle: You know, this is why I always encourage people to leave away from home, because you get to see a different perspective of oppression. And when you live in Gullah culture, we really are self-sufficient culture like, land is important to us. Surviving is like we don't depend on anybody. You know. To provide for us. We just do we have a do it ourselves mentality. And so being raised like that and coming here, like a lot of times I would look at Black people and be like, Well, why don't you just do it yourself? And some people will get offended by, you know, like, and I wasn't I, I wasn't meaning it in like a just like a negative way. I was really trying to say, like, you can do it yourself. You know? And I realized a lot of people around here don't hear that a lot. It's really a big thing and coming here. Seeing people being gentrified, like displaced and living in the standard that they live in and stuff in Charlottesville was really triggering for me because I'd never seen a thing like that. And so I had to be there here seeing like, okay, Black people here, they're losing their land here to just like they're losing their land in the Gullah Geechee corridor. But I also see how we continue to stick together, you know, because we look at it from a cultural perspective. We want to keep the culture going. My Gullah community raised me to be and to show Black people, No, we're not oppressed. Like we can do this if we want to. There's power within ourselves. So I feel like we have similar issues from a racial perspective, but it's still different culturally. It's just different culturally. I'm trying to connect Gullah culture, show the similarities in Gullah culture in a lot of way, but use my culture because it's a liberating and rebellious culture. I'm using that through the No We Are Not Oppressed series by documenting these different Black and brown people from different cultures of blackness to show diversity. Because a lot of Black people don't know that within blackness we're diverse. They think everybody Black, we all are the same. And it's not that's not what it is. And so, No We Are Not Oppressed shows the differences in our cultures within blackness, while also showing that we too still belong, although that we are culturally different.   Charles Lewis: Now, speaking of which: culture, land. You recently took a trip to Ghana to take pictures of the experience and work to translate it back here in Charlottesville. So can you share more about that work, including like, what does oppression look and feel like in that space?   Marley Nichelle: So the experience that was my second return to Ghana and the first time I went, it was…I had just gotten into photography and I was actually learning how to…I'm self-taught. So like I teach myself how to take pictures. Really for real. And I was just like, Well, I'm going practice. And when I did, I was like, okay, this is a different vibe. But the second time I went as an actual professional photographer, like mastering the knowledge of photography. And this time it was different because I actually had a different eye vision and I could like literally feel the oppressiveness within Ghana, not through not through race, but politically. I do feel like there's a big disconnect between Africans and African-Americans. Our realities are always displayed through the media in such dangerous ways to where a lot of Africans look at it like we're ungrateful and, you know, we are spoiled and we don’t…and I understand where they're coming from, from their circumstances and them not having the resources that we do. But then I also look at our reality, too, and I have to sometimes tell them it's the same because of politics. And once I started recognizing that deeply more going to Ghana, like my second return, I was able to like communicate with other Ghanaians by learning like I just haven't how I did here when I moved here just getting to know the community. I did the same thing when I went to Ghana. Like I'm not here to just vacation and have a good time. I'm here to learn. Like, what knowledge can I take back home to help? Or how can we reconnect to, like, just hear each other's stories? That trip really showed me the importance of connecting with Africans and Africans connecting with Black Americans and how we can just together figure out a way to like show each other and hear each other's stories. Because both perspectives, honestly, when it comes to the transatlantic slave trade, are valid. It's not just Black people in America. It's not just our trauma it’s Africans trauma too right, and we have to listen to each other. Charles Lewis [00:05:59]Like, what does it look like to to navigate, quote unquote, oppression for you as a Black person who's openly part of the LGBTQIA-plus community? [8.7s]   Marley Nichelle: Oh, that's that is a really good question, because I have never felt oppression from a racial perspective, but I've always felt it from being queer within the community, though. And that's the community of blackness. And then for me, like I've been queer my whole life, so trying to even grow up and understand it was kind of hard. And so me now, though, in the space that I am, you know, through, I'm really big on healing, like that's why I created the No We Are Not Oppressed to be a narrative of healing, to show perfection in imperfection. A lot of people may not believe it because I don't carry it. But I do feel pressure sometimes in certain situations, especially being queer. But I never try to show it because it's I feel like I can overcome it. It's just navigating, trying to figure out how to overcome it, to be able to be like an example for the next person.    Charles Lewis: What advice would you give a young person who wants to work at this intersection of photography and social justice?    Marley Nichelle For real for real the best advice I could ever give a younger person is to never think too deep into it and to always stay true to yourself when it comes to your beliefs, what you feel, what you stand in, and always give yourself room to grow. [19.1s] [00:26:36]Everything is is…I tell people it's a process. And even though four years seems like a short amount of time to do a lot of things with my photography, for me, it feels longer because. I put in a lot of work. And when I say that, like I want people to really understand like that is the key to success and being able to like take risks and and believe in yourself and confident and not expect “Yes” every time. K

Marley Nichelle wanted to “create a narrative of liberation and healing for communities of blackness by showing them power through language and visual arts.” And they called the series: “No, We Are Not Oppressed.” in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Charles Lewis: Welcome to First Person Cville, the podcast. I'm Charles Lewis, your host, and also the co-host of In My Humble Opinion, from 101.3 FM. Today's episode features India Sims, author of: “India Sims can do everything you can do — just sitting down.” India describes herself as “a woman in a wheelchair” and she wants you to know that she can speak for herself.  Charles Lewis: When someone thinks of India Sims, what strengths come to mind?  India Sims: That girl can do anything that she puts her mind to. Like if she says she's going to do it, she's going to find a way. She's a go getter. At the end of the day, my children, they don't see their mom as struggling. Right. Right. They see their mother as. Okay. Well, this is a goal. What–how she's going to overcome this today? So let's see! That's how they describe me, as a go getter.  Charles Lewis: When she’s not fishing, swimming, skydiving, or bungee jumping, India is working to change how able bodied people treat disabled people. Her mission is to get the City of Charlottesville—and its residents—to recognize that wheelchair accessibility is just an everyday reality. But so far: no one is listening. Charles Lewis: How do people interact with you when they see you?  India Sims: Oh, lordy. So. First, when people see me, they look at me like I'm this foreign object like. Disrespectful. Walk past. No politeness at all. That's how they see me as just a creature. But when people. Talk to me and get to know me and I'll speak to them. They'd be like, “Oh! She can speak. Oh, she doesn't need help.” Then they start grasping who I am. And understanding a little bit that, “Oh. She's a human.”   Charles Lewis: So we know that that you and your husband are looking to purchase a home and touring them was a barrier. Can you explain what what issues you faced? India Sims: So first of all, when I got approved, I explained to them that I was looking for a unique home because I'm the only disabled person or unique person in the house. And they were like, “Oh, that's fine. You know, you can come and look at some homes. You know, fine.” But when I went to go look at the home, I had to stay outside because it was all steps. There was no way for me to get in. So I called. Nobody answered. I blew the horn. Nobody answered. I'm like, “Okay.” Then somebody looked through the door and they were like, “Oh, can I help you?” And I was like, “Hi, I'm India.” And they were like, “Oh, hi, Come on in.” And I'm like, “You remember? I don't know who I spoke with, but you remember I told you I was, you know, in a wheelchair.” And they were like, “What do you want me to do about it?” Wow. And I said, “Excuse me?” And they was like, “There's steps here.” I said, “Well, I'm by myself. And y'all knew that I was by myself. Y'all help me.” “Oh, I can bring some blueprints to you.” I said, “You mean blueprints as paper?” And they were like, “Yeah.” They were like, “Well, you can figure it out that way.” I said, I would refuse to do that. And they were like, “Well, I don't know what else to tell you.” And they walked away.   Charles Lewis: So what would have been, in your opinion, the ideal response?  India Sims: So the ideal response is, “Okay, this woman has a disability. There's going to be more people that may have disability. So let me figure a way before she gets here, let me figure a way for her to get into the building.” Whether it is to get a portable ramp or either have some people help me up there, I shouldn't have to have someone near me in order for somebody to understand me and to grasp that I need assistance on certain things. And I say key word: certain things. Right. Um, so that would have been the ideal. So they should have already been prepared for me to come there instead of wasting my time and disrespecting me.    Charles Lewis: Talk about a time where you were denied accommodations or experience an undue burden in other places around the city.  India Sims: Oh, my gosh. Don't even get me started. You can't go to a restaurant without being frowned upon. Shopping the same way. You know, you don't make any kind of accommodations for you. Downtown is impossible because you have bricks, which I understand. Fill the bricks in, make it a little bit more easier for people to get in. Or push. Or if they're in a walker, it doesn't have to be a chair. There's no accessibility around Charlottesville. I know so many people around the world. A lot of people that are disabled are afraid to even show their face. I get contact like thousands of people contact me that are disabled, and they'd be like, “Hey, how where do you live?” I don't even tell them where I live. And that's sad. I would tell people not to come. Because I don't want them…because there's a lot of people that are disabled that are not going to be as strong as I am.    Charles Lewis: So you're also a professional businesswoman stylist. But because of your physical disability, you run into discrimination. What can you share with us about that experience?  India Sims: At first they wouldn't even accept me in the school. They wouldn't even take me into cosmetology. And it makes me so sad and it makes me want to cry sometime. But um Herman Key from the Charlottesville Cardinals, went into that cosmetology school and was like, “You're going to accept her and you're going to allow her to be who she wants to be.” And I took on my own as being a massage therapist and institution and now tech. And I took it and I ran with it. I was like, you know what? I'm going to have all these degrees and I'm going to make a building and I'm going to make it accessible for people that are disabled. And there's nobody going to stop me, but there is somebody that's stopping me. Charlottesville. They didn't care. I went to all these people asking for their help. They wouldn't help me. So then I went myself and I started a go fund me. So I am still doing it. I am still trying to raise money. I am still trying to get a building. It's just. With my business. I got to prove to people that I can do it. With my home, I got to prove to this that I got this and I got that. It doesn't matter if you have good credit. It doesn't matter if you have a deposit. It's so much and….Charlottesville. I'm going to say it. Charlottesville put this big persona that they love everybody and they accept everybody, and they'll do whatever they want for everybody. I'm here. Start on me. Start on someone that actually wants it and will work for it.  I was thrown away after the doctors paralyzed me. So if anybody knows how to how to salvage and put things together and hold it in place, that's that's me.  Charles Lewis: So for the people listening to this podcast, if they could take one thing. What would you want it to be? India Sims: Actually. Listen. Look. The way that you want to be heard and the way that you do things. We want to do it the exact same way. Stop judging. Stop. Thinking that we can't be who we want to be. Just because you don't see many of us that are disabled, does it mean that we…we don't exist. Just because you don't believe in it. There was somebody that didn't believe in you one time. It was somebody that you had to start from the ground up at one point. That doesn't mean that it's impossible. So stop judging.  CL: India Sims is on TikTok at one unique chair girl—that’s the number one, unique chair girl. She is actively raising money through Go Fund Me for her accessible salon. You can find her First Person Cville essay at www.charlottesvilletomorrow.com.  We want to hear your story and tell the story of our community together. Share your perspective with First Person Cville at cvilleinclusivemedia.com/projects. The First Person Cville podcast is a production of Charlottesville Inclusive Media. It's hosted by me, Charles Lewis, and the In My Humble Opinion Talk Show.  Like what you hear? Subscribe and follow us at imhotalkshow.org.  This episode was produced by Kelly Jones. Music from Epidemic Sound. IMHO theme music is from God Vamps by Miguel and Morse with NYC bangers on production.   Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

India Sims, author of: “India Sims can do everything you can do — just sitting down.”

Welcome to First Person Cville, the podcast. I'm Charles Lewis, your host, and also the co-host of In My Humble Opinion, from 101.3 FM. Today's episode features trans advocate Charley Burton, author of: “He used to sneak to the back of the library to learn about who he was. Now, this trans advocate has his own book.”  When he was eight years old, Charley would climb the big brick steps of the Gordon Avenue Library and sneak into the adult section to try to figure out why he felt like a little boy when everyone else knew him as a girl. Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Episode Notes Welcome to the First Person Cville, the podcast. Today's episode features trans advocate Charley Burton, author of: “He used to sneak to the back of the library to learn about who he was. Now, this trans advocate has his own book.”  #cvilleinclusivemedia #cvilletomorrow #vinegarhillmag #imhotalkshow #charleyspeaksnva Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Welcome to the First Person Cville, the podcast. Today's episode features chef Antwon Brinson, author of the article, "You Get What You Focus on, Antwon Brinson's Vision of Using Food to Build Community." Antwon Brinson is a chef and founder of Culinary Concepts AB. You can find his First Person Cville essay at vinegarhillmagazine.com. Follow up on more of Antwon's work at his website: www.culinaryconceptsab.com. We want to hear your story and tell the story of our community, together. Share your perspective with First Person Cville at cvilleinclusivemedia.com/projects. The First Person Cville podcast is a production of Charlottesville Inclusive Media. Like what you hear? Subscribe and follow us at IMHOtalkshow.org. This episode was produced by Kelly Jones. IMHO theme music was from “God Vibes” by Miquel & Morris, NYC Bangers on Production. Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Episode Notes Welcome to the First Person Cville, the podcast. This episode features chef Antwon Brinson, author of the article, "You Get What You Focus on, Antwon Brinson's Vision of Using Food to Build Community." Here's an audiogram about hitting the streets of Cville. #cvilleinclusivemedia @cvilletomorrow @vinegarhillmag @imhotalkshow @culinaryconcepts_ab @chefantwonbrinson Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Charles Lewis: Welcome to First Person Cville — the podcast. I’m Charles Lewis, your host, and also the co-host of In My Humble Opinion from 101.3FM. Today’s episode features writer and librarian Katrina Spencer and is based on the essay she wrote for First Person Cville called, “Public Violence, Our Trusty Companion.” "Public Violence, Our Trusty Companion" was written following the May 2022 Uvalde shooting at Robb Elementary in Texas. The audio prepared to complement this written piece was recorded preceding the November 2022 shooting at the University of Virginia. Katrina was born and raised in Los Angeles and has lived in Charlottesville for about two years. But her thoughts about public violence are timeless and global — they apply to everything from the Rodney King beatings in LA in 1991 to the Westgate shopping mall shooting in Nairobi in 2013. To the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville in 2017. Or bomb threats called into our local synagogue. Or recent shootings across town. Figuring out how to deal with violence…might just be what it means to be a person right now. In this episode, you’ll hear Katrina talk about what it’s been like to grow with public violence as a constant but unwelcome presence. Along the way, she started to notice that the news media prescribed emotions for everything from pop culture icons to mass shootings. Today, the amount of public violence and emotions she’s told she’s supposed to feel have left her overwhelmed. A quick warning: because Katrina’s talking about public violence, some of this content might be difficult to listen to. Katrina takes it from here, starting with growing up in LA in the early 1990s…. Find out more at https://in-my-humble-opinion.pinecast.co

Episode Notes Welcome to “First Person Cville” — the podcast. Here’s the promo for Episode 1 which features writer and librarian Katrina Spencer. “Public Violence, Our Trusty Companion" was written following the May 2022 Uvalde shooting at Robb Elementary in Texas. The audio prepared to complement this written piece was recorded preceding the November 2022 shooting at the University of Virginia. Figuring out how to deal with violence...might just be what it means to be a person right now... #cvilleinclusivemedia #cvilletomorrow #vinegarhillmagazine #imhotalkshow

One thing's for sure: Dr. Kevin McDonald is a heavy hitter when it comes to challenging and changing the status quo in racial equity. With that in mind, the man has got a lot on his plate when it comes to bringing together the community of Charlottesville with an institution so steeped in racial inequity such as the University of Virginia. In this episode, the IMHO crew talk to him about his plans and the tools he will use to make this happen.

Is it fair to ask where VP Kamala is? In this episode, the IMHO crew breaks down the whole question.

Charlottesville's Music Resource Center is a valuable place for any community youth interested in the music. In this episode, the IMHO crew talk to the new Chairman Lester Jackson as well as the Executive Director Alice Fox.

On paper, Angilee Shah is an unlikely choice to be the first Editor-in-Chief for a local online news organization such as Charlottesville Tomorrow. As a journalist covering international news and as founding editor of PRI's Global Nation she has covered conflicts across the map. But dig deeper and you find someone completely devoted to the local news cause. In this episode of IMHO, hear her story and hear her plans to include more of Charlottesville's diverse community in the editorial process of Charlottesville Tomorrow.

As the new Republican Governor steps into office there are many questions about how he will proceed with mask mandates. Charlottesville Tomorrow journalists discuss this and other topics such as the new redistricting lines drawn in the Commonwealth.

Episode Notes Maxicelia Robinson, Tina Thomas, Patty Medina, Sherica Jones-Lewis, Joyce Stevenson, Carolyn Terry-Mcclain, Mary Butler Coleman

Episode Notes Maxicelia Robinson, Tina Thomas, Patty Medina, Sherica Jones-Lewis, Joyce Stevenson, Carolyn Terry-Mcclain, Mary Butler Coleman

Episode Notes Maxicelia Robinson, Tina Thomas, Patty Medina, Sherica Jones-Lewis, Joyce Stevenson, Carolyn Terry-Mcclain, Mary Butler Coleman