In the Meanwhile

What happens when you combine nude bicyclists, dancing frogs, and 7 million patriots saying "hell no"? Joyous resistance. Though MAGA would prefer we forget it, protest is as American as apple pie - from the Boston Tea Party to the summer of 2020. This week, Marcus and Nora are joined by Nadine Bloch - activist artist, puppetista, movement facilitator, and nonviolent organizer - to debrief No Kings 2.0 and talk about what's next. As authoritarian 'creep' becomes authoritarian creeps at warp speed, how can communities mobilize sustained, creative, and even joyous nonviolence resistance? Bloch walks us through noncooperation strategies, offering equal parts pragmatic hope and realistic appraisals of the fight we're up against. It's a call for all of us to dig deep, get organized, and, as Bloch puts it, "make revolution irresistible." Just try to walk away uninspired!  Mentioned in the episode:  Freedom Trainers | Seattle strike 1919 | Flint Michigan strike 1937 | Montgomery Bus Boycott | Washington Spirit 'Free DC' chant | jury ullification | malicious compliance | Japan's new prime minister | Beautiful Trouble: A Toolbox for Revolution | Marcus' latest stranger column| ICE spending on weapons | Year of Yes | Paul Ingrassia | No Kings was the largest mass protest in US history | Colleges rejecting Trump's Faustian Bargain More of Nadine's work: Beautiful Rising: Creative Resistance from the Global South | We Are Many, Reflections on Movement Strategy from Occupation to Liberation | From Airtable to Zoom: An A-to-Z Guide to Digital Tech and Activism | Education & Training in Nonviolent Resistance | SNAP: An Action Guide to Synergizing Nonviolent Action and Peacebuilding | WagingNonviolence | Endpoliticalviolence.org  Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Chicago is not a war zone. It's a community under siege, refusing to flinch. This week, Nora and Marcus talk with Chicago Alderman Byron Sigcho-Lopez about what happens when federal power turns local neighborhoods into testing grounds for fear, and how people fight back with tamale deliveries, neighborhood networks, and unapologetic solidarity. It's a raw, unfiltered look at what resistance actually means when the cameras leave: mutual aid, protest, and the daily act of refusing to look away. It's also a gentle nudge on the importance of keeping people "productively uncomfortable"—a mix of hope, humor, and a rallying cry for anyone wondering how to resist when democracy feels like it's on clearance. Spoiler: it starts on your block. Mentioned in the episode: Leaked messages expose Young Republicans' racist chat | Mother Jones on the Dual State Theory | 12 Years a Slave | No Kings Oct 18 | Apple pulls ICE tracking apps under government pressure | Chicago tamale vendor kidnapped | Rideshare drivers targeted at O'Hare | Chicago TV Producer arrested | Broadview resistance to ICE | Colorful Portland ICE protest met with state violence | 25th Ward | AP News: Using helicopters and chemical agents, immigration agents become increasingly aggressive in Chicago | Silverio Villegas Gonzalez murdered by ICE | Murder of Laquan McDonald | Chicago Mayor Brandon Johnson | Chicago Executive Order: ICE Free Zone | 40% decrease in Illinois prison population | Chicago ceasefire resolution | Seattle Mariners on the brink of World Series | VICE: John Mayer and D'Angelo Backed by The Roots Is the Dream Performance You Didn't Know You Needed ICE Resistance and Chicago Resources: Illinois Coalition for Immigrant & Refugee Rights | Mutual Aid Map | City Bureau: How to Get Help Amid ICE Raids in Chicago | Kelly Hayes - They Came for Our Neighbors. We Showed Up. | Look for the Helpers - Chicago | How to Start a Walking School Bus | Whistle Warriors - Printable resources and Meetups | Street Vendors Association of Chicago | Chicago Operation Buyout | Hands Off Chicago | Legal Resources and Assistance from TRP Immigrant Justice More on Alderman Byron Sigcho-Lopez: ABC News: Chicago alderman on the immigration crackdown sweeping the Windy City | Sigcho-Lopez on Democracy Now! Support the pod: Donate here to support In The Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

When the news starts looking like a haunted carnival (panic at 6, Prozac at 11), who are we supposed to trust? This week, Nora and Marcus grab the scalpel and dig into our media's open wounds with writer/editor Maggie Mertens and journalist/therapist Sarah Stuteville. They talk billionaire capture of news, the gutting of public media, and "toxic empathy"—which, to be honest, is just what people say when they're allergic to compassion. Together, they sketch a sane news diet (follow people, not brands), make the case for independent, community-rooted outlets, and ask how we turn doom into doing—from ICE resistance to Gaza coverage. It's a much-needed bit of group therapy for anyone trying to stay human in the headlines. Mentioned in the episode: Maggie Mertens: The State of 'The Media' is Bad. What's an Independent Journalist to do? | Photo of pastor being pepper sprayed in Chicago | Toxic Empathy on Today Explained | NPR: One Palestinian Family Shares Their Story of Loss | Study: Profiling Misinformation Susceptibility | South Seattle Emerald | Study: empathy gap + privilege | Children zip tied in Chicago ICE Raid | Cascade PBS Layoffs | CPB is shutting down | Better Faster Farther | Mistakes Were Made | Margin Call Follow Maggie: https://maggiemertens.substack.com/ Follow Sarah: https://www.sarahstuteville.com/ Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus debrief a joy-sparking night with Stacey Abrams before wading into America's latest authoritarian cosplay. They're then joined by Kashana Cauley—TV writer, comedian, and author of The Payback, a razor-sharp novel about debt, policing, and survival told with humor as cutting as it is honest. She talks about why gallows humor is both a shield and a call to collective resistance. Together, they dig into scrappy resistance led by ordinary people, why "voter apathy" is really despair, and how fiction can punch holes in bad policy. Plus: an "Eight Ounces of Joy" palate cleanser—Reading Rainbow is back (yes, with Mychal the Librarian)—reminding us the future still has libraries, laughter, and reasons not to yeet our phones into the Sound. Mentioned in the episode: The Payback | The Survivalists | Debt Collective | Stacey Abrams at Town Hall Seattle | Pete Hegseth doing pull ups | HUD website announcement | NSPM-7 | Reading Rainbow is back! With Mychal Threets | Assata Shakur | Kashana at the University of Illinois Chicago Oct. 29th Follow Kashana Cauley: @kashana.blacksky.app  Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus tear into the clown-car chaos of American public health: vaccine policy whiplash, Trump's acetaminophen-ass-head-of-men moment, and RFK Jr. running HHS like a crystal-healing Etsy shop. Then they call in Yale epidemiologist and longtime AIDS activist Gregg Gonsalves, who's been in the trenches since ACT UP. He reminds us: public health has always been political, authoritarians hate experts because they tell the truth, and the real antidote isn't just clapbacks, it's organizing from your school board to your statehouse. And because you can't fight pseudoscience on an empty soul, we end with Eight Ounces of Joy: Kubota Garden peace and a serendipitous cross-country friend reunion. Proof that even in the darkest timeline, you can still find a little sunlight, solace, and maybe even a hydrangea that outlives the administration. Mentioned in the episode: Gregg Gonsalves | When AIDS Was Funny | Sick From Freedom | Why doesn't the United States have universal health care? The answer has everything to do with race | RFK Jr., American Psycho | ProPublica reporting on Russell Vought | Research paper on Measles/polio/diphtheria becoming endemic | How Public Health Took Part in its Own Downfall | Defend Public Health | Tom Holman accepting bags of cash |  ACOG: Acetaminophen in Pregnancy | Marcus on Kubota Garden |  Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Whelp, here's the episode where we finally ask: democracy or dystopia, which one needs fewer bunkers? Marcus and Nora open on a week so wild it made "Make America Boring Again" sound visionary, then dive in with Douglas Rushkoff (creator of Team Human, and author of Survival of the Richest). We unpack why tech billionaires keep fantasizing about escape hatches, Hawaii compounds, New Zealand bunkers, and DIY Martian hydration, while the rest of us are left with the bill (and the algorithms). Rushkoff maps the feedback loop between accelerationist politics, growth-at-all-costs tech, and a media machine allergic to context, then offers an antidote: cap the "more," rebuild local, practice mutual aid, rediscover awe, and value time for its own sake. It's funny, salty, and surprisingly hopeful. Mentioned in the episode: AGI | Degrowth movement | The Social Dilemma | Black Wall Street | Robert Redford: the Company You Keep | Rev. Dr. Howard John Wesley: how you die does not redeem the life you lived | Journalist firings following death of Charlie Kirk | Michaela's story on SoundSide | Gabriel Teodros | Before trilogy Douglas's work: Team Human podcast | Generation Like | The Persuaders | Merchants of Cool | Survival of the Richest: Escape Fantasies of the Tech Billionaires Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus speak with the one and only Tricia Rose: cultural critic, Brown professor, and professional breaker of lazy narratives. We get into "metaracism" (aka the system isn't broken, it's working as intended), why stories move policy more than charts, and her interactive project Way Outta No Way that makes systemic racism visible without putting you to sleep. Rose points to real leverage points, like ending property-tax funding for public schools, and reminds us that collective care (and yes, jokes) are strategy, not fluff. If you've ever wondered how to steal the pen back from power, this is your starter kit. Note - 9/15/25: the original version of this episode contained an error in Professor Rose's title. Professor Tricia Rose is the Chancellor's Professor of Africana Studies and Director of the Systemic Racism and Resilience Project at the John Nicholas Brown Center for Advanced Study at Brown University. Mentioned in the episode: Tricia Rose | Tricia Rose and Larry Elder on Al Jazeera (Internet Archive) | Way Outta No Way | The Nap Ministry | Metaracism by Tricia Rose | Wild Faith by Talia Levin | History lives here at NAAM Follow Prof. Rose: https://www.instagram.com/proftriciarose | https://bsky.app/profile/proftriciarose.bsky.social  Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Renée Hopkins, CEO of the Alliance for Gun Responsibility, to talk about a grim reality we're supposed to pretend is normal: gun violence that's killing kids every day while politicians offer therapeutic platitudes and zero legislation.  But here's the twist—Hopkins and her team have actually made progress on this issue. While the rest of the country cycles through outrage, helplessness, fear, and legislative paralysis, Washington state has been quietly passing comprehensive gun safety laws. Background checks, extreme risk protection orders, safe storage requirements—turns out you can regulate tools of mass death without the constitution bursting into flames.  It's a conversation about how we misunderstand both where gun violence comes from and who it most impacts, and the policy wins that are saving the biggest killer of pregnant women and children across the US. Bring tissues. Bring rage. And maybe bring some faith that steady progress beats thoughts and prayers every time. Mentioned in the episode: Alliance for Gun Responsibility | Call RFK: 202-690-7000 | Shakespearean Insult Generator | Awe by Dacher Kelter Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus take listeners on a wild ride through America's collapsing systems, plus the unlikely origin story of this very podcast: part DIY zine, part serendipity, part awkward poetry class with an ex, and a Town Hall conversation that revealed GoFundMe has effectively become our national healthcare system… just with nicer branding. Along the way, they dig into Nora's groundbreaking work on crowdfunding, showing how desperation got repackaged as an "internet take action button" while the real structural injustices stayed put. It's a conversation about inequity, resilience, and why mutual aid might be the only antidote to living in the "meanwhile." Sure, it's a little enraging, BUT you'll laugh through the fury (and yes, that counts as your cardio for the day). Mentioned in the episode: Marcus's first article, featuring Nora | Nora & Marcus's Town Hall Talk on YouTube | Heather Cox Richardson at Town Hall | Crowded Out | White women wasting ICE's time | Our episode with Dean Spade Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus chat it up with Dr. Daudi Abe about America's hottest commodity: ignorance, which is now streaming in a classroom near you! From states rebranding slavery as "involuntary relocation with benefits" to classrooms streaming PragerU like it's the Disney Channel, we dive into how the powerful weaponize misinformation to keep us confused, divided, and buying Hulk Hogan bobbleheads instead of books. It's hilarious, terrifying, and just the kind of conversation you need if you're trying to make sense of why critical thinking is being treated like contraband. Oh, and Dr. Abe has a special message for anyone crying that higher education leads to indoctrination… Mentioned in the episode: Deadhorse Canyon | Man or Bear | Marcus's article on Homer in the South Seattle Emerald | Book: A Festival of Violence Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare | Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus's work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

The broligarchy isn't just cringe, it's deeply dangerous. This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with Dan McQuillan, author of Resisting AI, to unpack how artificial intelligence isn't changing the game—it's rigging it in favor of authoritarianism. McQuillan breaks down how Silicon Valley has found its perfect dance partner in far-right movements, and offers a crucial blueprint for resistance. By rejecting the lie that AI dominance is useful or inevitable, McQuillan maps out how we can refuse this technological takeover and build something better in its place. Enter "decomputing": the radical idea that communities can organize alternative infrastructures based on care, mutual aid, and actual human judgment instead of algorithmic solutionism.  Part organizing manual, part explainer on Elon's tasteless Nazi fan fiction, this episode is necessary listening for anyone who's ever wondered if we're sleepwalking into a dystopian tech future. Spoiler alert: we are. But we don't have to be. Mentioned in the episode: Resisting AI by Dan McQuillan | Decomputing as Resistance by Dan McQuillan | Resisting the Techno-Fascist Takeover by Dan McQuillan | Travis Kalanick on doing "vibe physics" | A Former DOGE Employee Gives His Account of Working for the Operation, NPR. | More Everything Forever, by Adam Becker | Empire of AI, by Karen Hao | The Interview: The Grody-Patinkin Family is a Mess. People Love It. | Pathetic Spiritual Practice with Rev. Denise M. Cawley Find Dan McQuillan on social media:  https://x.com/danmcquillan | https://bsky.app/profile/danmcquillan.bsky.social | @danmcquillan@kolektiva.social (mastodon) |  https://www.linkedin.com/in/danmcquillan/ | https://www.instagram.com/resistingai/ Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Read Nora and Marcus's Books: Crowded Out: The True Costs of Crowdfunding Healthcare Readying to Rise  Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus catch up with Seattle's most unexpected threat to billionaire brunch politics, Katie Wilson. She's a longtime organizer, transit rider, and Americano-splitter who went from dragging mayors in public comment to becoming the mayoral frontrunner herself. Her game plan? No hedge fund sugar daddies, no donor call lists, just a Google form, a ground game, and the radical idea that government should actually work for people. This one is for everyone who's screamed "Do something!" at their screen, only to realize the person who should do something… might be themselves. It's equal parts political strategy, Buddhist wisdom, and just enough hope to make every fauxgressive clutch their Chamber of Commerce tote bag in horror. Mentioned in the episode: Katie Wilson for Mayor | Voting info in King County |  Support the pod: Donate to Hinton Publishing to support In the Meanwhile Follow us on social & the web: Instagram | BlueSky | Website Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.

This week on In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus speak with The Bitchuation Room's Francesca Fiorentini — comedian, journalist, and professional thorn in the side of fascists everywhere. She breaks down why comedy is doing the job cable news is too scared to touch, why billionaires are basically rich toddlers with Wi-Fi, and how the left can stop doomscrolling and start building real power. From Palestine to potty‑training wins, Francesca shows us that sometimes the best way to fight back is to laugh in the face of the people trying to wreck your life… and then organize to take their power away. Mentioned in the episode: The Bitchuation Room | TICKETS: The Bitchuation Room live in Seattle 8/2/25 | AJ+ | Francesca on Abolish ICE | Bill Burr | If Books Could Kill - "A Bari Special Episode" | Lead pipe replacement in Flint, MI | Injectable preventative HIV medicine goes global | The Stranger Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect.  

In this scorching episode of In The Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sweat it out—literally and metaphorically—as they sit down with disability rights advocate and policy powerhouse Matthew Cortland. With razor-sharp clarity and raw honesty, Matthew unpacks how Trump's so-called "big, beautiful" budget is actually a legislative wrecking ball aimed at Medicaid, Medicare, and the people who need them most. Matthew shares their own survival story of chronic illness, insurance denials, and systemic gaslighting—and how that fight led them to become one of the country's leading voices for healthcare justice. Part moral call to arms, part policy masterclass, this episode digs into why messaging matters, how personal stories can save lives, and what it means to organize like survival depends on it–because for millions, it absolutely does. Mentioned in the episode: Matthew Cortland | Data for Progress | Ady Barkan's organization, Be A Hero | Little Lobbyists | AAPD | The House of God by Samuel Shem | Frank Luntz | Don't Think of an Elephant!, by George Lakoff | Haroun and the Sea of Stories, by Salman Rushdie Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

This week, Nora and Marcus sit down with Gabriel Teodros, MC, poet, educator, organizer, and community time traveler, to talk about how we carry grief, make art, and stay human when the world's on fire (sometimes literally). Gabriel takes us from losing his home in a blaze to creating From the Ashes of Our Homes, his most personal album yet. And along the way, he unpacks what it means to do "love work" in a world built to erase us. We get into the big stuff: why silence in the face of genocide isn't just complicity, it's consent. Why joy isn't a luxury, it's resistance. And why solidarity isn't a social media post, but something you live, build, and dance to. This isn't just a convo about music. It's about using every beat, bar, and breath to fight back. Come for the rhythm, stay for the revolution. Mentioned in the episode: All About Love, bell hooks | Lovework | Khalil Gibran, The Prophet | Denizen Kane | Gabriel Teodros - From the Ashes of Our Homes | Gabriel Teodros - An Open Letter to My Cousins in Israel | Palestine Will LIve Forever Festival | Andrea Gibson | The Undocumented Socialist Alien who Keeps Saving America by Marcus Harrison Green in The Stranger | Tikun Olam Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

What if everything you've been told about Palestine was only half the story, and the half that kept power comfy? This week on In the Meanwhile, Marcus and Nora talk with Palestinian American scholar Karam Dana, whose new book doesn't just unpack the crisis in Gaza—it shreds the whole suitcase of sanitized narratives we've been fed for decades. With the precision of a professor and the fire of someone who's lived it, Dana explains how Palestine sits at the heart of our most urgent questions: What does real solidarity look like? Who gets to speak freely? And why are Jewish voices standing with Palestinians so often erased? It's heavy, yes but also clarifying, humanizing, and (somehow) hopeful. If you've ever found yourself wondering why talking about Palestine feels like touching a political third rail, this episode gives you the history, context, and moral compass to do it anyway. Mentioned in the episode: To Stand with Palestine by Karam Dana | Except for Palestine by Marc Lamont Hill and Richard Plitnick | The Message, by Ta Nehisi Coates | Tolerance is a Wasteland by Saree Makdisi | Good Muslim/Bad Muslim by Mahmood Mamdani Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Synopsis: This week on In the Meanwhile, Nora and Marcus sit down with journalist Schuyler Mitchell to unpack how we went from "defund the police" to cities doubling down on militarized crackdowns: complete with riot gear, surveillance drones, and bipartisan gaslighting. Drawing from Mitchell's Truthout exposé on the LAPD's long history of unchecked brutality, the conversation explores how both Trump and so-called "resistance" leaders like Gavin Newsom helped build today's authoritarian toolkit. They break down the blurred lines between ICE, local police, and Homeland Security, the failure of reforms, and why police budgets keep growing while communities are left to fend for themselves. It's a sharp and sobering conversation about what public safety really means, what abolition demands, and why hope lives in mutual aid, memory, and refusing to settle for brunch as a political strategy. Mentioned in the episode: Yes, We mean Literally Abolish the Police Political Sidequest Schuyler Mitchell's article for Truth Out Mariame Kaba and Andrea Richie - No More Police How Los Angeles Police Broke Protocols and Injured Protesters  Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

Dean Spade joins Nora and Marcus for a conversation about how our relationships show up in our activism, politics, and everyday life. Mentioned in the episode: Love in a F*cked Up World by Dean Spade | Love in a Fucked Up World Podcast | Mutual Aid by Dean Spade | Facing Collapse Together study group | Movement Memos: Bizarre and Dangerous Utopian Ideology Has Quietly Taken Hold of Tech World | Pipsqueak | Left Bank Books | Exarcheia | Inside Exarcheia on The Guardian (2019) | Demise of a neighborhood on Politico (2023) | New Jersey ICE escape | Lime Bike Barricade in Seattle Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Transcripts are machine-generated and imperfect. Links to bookshop.org are affiliate links.

In this episode, Nora and Marcus wade into the bizarre right-wing war on empathy—where Elon Musk, JD Vance, and others claim that caring about other people is a threat to civilization itself. But beyond the absurdity, they trace how empathy has been weaponized, misunderstood, and hollowed out—from Clinton-era politics to today's culture wars. Together, they ask: How should we show up and care in a time of polycrisis? s empathy even enough? Or do we need something deeper—like solidarity, discomfort, and the hard, daily work of being human with one another? Mentioned in the episode: Celebrity Imagine cringe video | Braver Angels | Pope Francis letter to Vance | Crowded Out | Toxic Empathy | Bishop Marian Budde | Guardian - Julia Carrie Wong | Tech Won't Save Us Follow us on Social: Instagram | BlueSky Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron. Sound Effect by freesound_community from Pixabay Sound Effect by Universfield from Pixabay

Mentioned in the episode: So the No Kings March Happened. What Next? (Marcus Harrison Green, South Seattle Emerald) Erica Chenoweth Follow us on Social: https://www.instagram.com/inthemeanwhilepodcast | https://bsky.app/profile/inthemeanwhile.bsky.social  *Nora and Marcus' work on the podcast is separate from their professional roles and does not represent the views of their employers.  Music: No Tears for a Wolf · Ahamefule J. Oluo · Okanomodé. Used with permission. Logo by Nikki Barron