In the National Interest

<p>"<strong>In the National Interest</strong>" is a podcast that explores the intersection of foreign and defense policy, national security, and U.S. politics. It is not about world affairs, but about American interests and the realist approach needed to promote them. What actually constitutes true realism is, of course, a source of controversy. And so, the series promotes fresh debate by featuring a variety of leading experts from government, industry, journalism, and academia, many of whom may at times disagree with each other. Each episode is hosted by Jacob Heilbrunn, editor of The National Interest magazine, and published by the Center for the National Interest.</p>

Moldova's Frozen Conflict (w/ Daniel Runde)

Sunday’s parliamentary elections in Moldova delivered a clear victory for the pro-European Party of Action and Solidarity (PAS), led by sitting President Maia Sandu. Can economic incentives and Western investment now help transform Moldova's breakaway region of Transnistria from a Russia-leaning outpost into a partner in reconstruction and EU integration? Do the election results signal that the enclave’s oligarchs and younger voters are shifting toward Europe? And what options remain for Vladimir Putin as his traditional levers of influence in the region slip away?In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Daniel Runde, a senior adviser at BGR Group and author of The American Imperative: Reclaiming Global Leadership Through Soft Power (Bombardier Books, 2023). Runde previously served as a senior vice president at the Center for Strategic and International Studies and has advised the U.S. government, foreign ministries, international bodies, and Fortune 500 firms.

09-30
23:11

Effectively Banning the Muslim Brotherhood (w/ Robert Silverman)

Calls to ban the Muslim Brotherhood have resurfaced in recent years, especially amid its links to Hamas and violent offshoots across the Middle East. Is it a political movement, a terrorist network, or both? How should the U.S. balance democratic principles with the need to confront groups that shift between ballots and bombs? And what tools exist to cut off its funding and influence?In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Robert Silverman, the editor-in-chief of the Jerusalem Strategic Tribune. Previously a senior Foreign Service officer, Silverman served in nine overseas assignments, including in Iraq, Jerusalem, Tel Aviv, and Riyadh. From 2013 through 2015, he was the elected president and chairman of the board of the 16,000-member American Foreign Service Association.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

08-19
17:28

The Sorcerer's Apprentice? American Politics from Buckley to Trump (w/ Sam Tanenhaus)

What does the life of William F. Buckley, Jr. reveal about the deeper currents shaping American politics? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Sam Tanenhaus, a former editor of The New York Times Book Review and the author of the new biography “Buckley: The Life and the Revolution That Changed America” (Random House, 2025). Together, they examine how outsider campaigns, cultural backlash, and the performance of political authenticity have reshaped both the right and the left. Is Trump the culmination, or corruption, of Buckley's movement? Has the liberal establishment lost its hold not just on power, but on the language of ideas itself? And in a time of ideological confusion and institutional decay, is today's chaos a break from the past or its inevitable result?Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

06-26
01:12:06

Diplomacy in the Crosshairs (w/ Paul Saunders)

Secretary of State Marco Rubio has released the Trump administration's plans for reorganizing the State Department—a first step toward reducing what the White House calls a bloated and inefficient bureaucracy. The proposed reforms could reshape U.S. engagement with the world, ending America’s human rights advocacy, shuttering key diplomatic offices, and threatening the very infrastructure that supports global U.S. leadership. With Congress holding the purse strings and foreign governments watching closely, how far will these reforms go—and at what cost to American influence and values abroad?In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Paul Saunders, the president of the Center for the National Interest. Saunders served in the George W. Bush Administration from 2003 to 2005 as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-24
26:07

Trump's Tariffs and Energy Market Turmoil (w/ Tatiana Mitrova)

President Donald Trump’s announcement of sweeping new global tariffs last week sent shockwaves through international markets, igniting fears of economic slowdown and triggering retaliatory measures from major trading partners like China. The consequences are already reverberating through the global energy system: oil and gas prices are sliding, producers are under pressure, and the clean energy transition faces fresh headwinds as tariffs hit solar panels, EVs, and battery components. With geopolitical tensions simmering and economic uncertainty rising, could Trump’s tariff gamble reshape the global energy landscape for years to come? And how vulnerable is Russia’s oil-dependent economy in this new low-price era? In this episode, Paul Saunders speaks with Tatiana Mitrova, a Research Fellow at Columbia University’s Center on Global Energy Policy and Director of the New Energy Advancement Hub. Mitrova has twenty-five years of experience in dealing with global energy markets, including production, transportation, demand, energy policy, pricing, and market restructuring.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-07
16:57

Rethinking American Grand Strategy (w/ Ionut Popescu)

What should America's grand strategy look like in a world shaped by resurgent great powers, regional conflict, and rising multipolarity? As China pushes to dominate the Asia-Pacific and Russia asserts itself in its near abroad, the stakes for global order—and for U.S. leadership—have never been higher. Meanwhile, the Trump administration faces the challenge of distinguishing first-order priorities from second-order distractions. Should Washington continue pursuing global primacy, or shift toward a leaner, more focused strategy rooted in realism? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Ionut Popescu, Associate Professor of Political Science at Texas State University. Dr. Popescu is the recent author of No Peer Rivals: American Grand Strategy in the Era of Great Power Competition.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-02
17:04

America First, Unbound? (w/ Curt Mills)

The second Trump administration is moving at breakneck speed to reshape American foreign policy, with Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin holding an extended phone call on Tuesday over a provisional 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine. Meanwhile, Trump continues to escalate threats of sweeping tariffs on foreign goods, rattling global markets and further cementing his “America First” economic doctrine. These rapid shifts underscore the dominance of the MAGA movement, as the old guard of the Republican Party has been swept aside. What does an unbound Trump presidency mean for America’s role in the world? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative. Mills previously worked at The National Interest, U.S. News & World Report, Washington Examiner, and The Spectator. He was a 2018-2019 Robert Novak Journalism Fellow.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

03-18
24:11

Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy Shake-Up (w/ Antonia Ferrier)

President Donald Trump has thrown another curveball into global politics, seemingly reversing course on Ukraine negotiations and threatening new sanctions on Russia in a Truth Social post—just as he hints at potential diplomatic talks with Tehran. Such abrupt shifts in recent weeks have left Washington and America's allies scrambling, raising urgent questions about the future of U.S. commitments in Europe and elsewhere. As Europe begins to step up its defense ambitions, will Trump's unpredictability push the continent toward greater strategic independence? And with some Republican lawmakers growing uneasy about his Ukraine stance, is there real resistance within the GOP, or just political posturing? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with long-time Republican strategist Antonia Ferrier. Ferrier has extensive experience on Capitol Hill, including as a staff director in the office of former Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

03-07
15:24

The Fall of Syria's Assad Regime (w/ Greg Priddy)

On Sunday, Syrian rebel forces captured the capital Damascus and forced President Bashar al-Assad to flee the country to Moscow, ending more than 50 years of Assad family rule. What do these rapid and momentous developments mean for the future of Syria? And what are the ramifications for Iran, Israel, and Russia in the Middle East? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Greg Priddy, a Senior Fellow for the Middle East at the Center for the National Interest. Priddy consults for corporate and financial clients on political risk in the region and previously served as Director for Global Oil at Eurasia Group.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

12-08
20:21

Trump's Second-Term Blueprint (w/ Daniel McCarthy)

As president-elect Donald Trump moves to build his second administration, will he follow the Reaganite path of smaller government and lower taxes, or will he instead break from traditional Republican doctrine to focus on industrial growth and pro-family policies? Will his national security team be hawkish or dovish? And just how serious is he about his proposed tariffs? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Daniel McCarthy, the editor of Modern Age: A Conservative Review. McCarthy is the author of a recent New York Times essay on the 2024 presidential election, “This Is Why Trump Won.”Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

11-07
12:57

Trump’s Second Act (w/ Harry Kazianis)

In a stunning political comeback, former president Donald Trump routed vice president Kamala Harris in Tuesday's presidential election to reclaim the White House. What does his victory signal for the future of U.S. democracy? And how will a second Trump administration reshape U.S. foreign policy on Ukraine and Taiwan? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

11-06
11:03

Iran’s Ballistic Missile Attack on Israel (w/ Zalmay Khalilzad)

On Tuesday evening, Iran launched hundreds of ballistic missiles at Israel in what appears to be a direct response to Israel's actions in Lebanon over the past week. What are the consequences of the attack? How great is the danger of further escalation into a regional conflict? And what impact might these events have on next month’s U.S. presidential election? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with former ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad. Khalilzad served as U.S. Special Representative for Afghanistan Reconciliation from 2018 to 2021 and before that held multiple posts in the George W. Bush administration as U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations (2007-09), to Iraq (2005-07), and to Afghanistan (2004-05).Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

10-01
12:48

Harris Takes the Fight to Trump (w/ Harry Kazianis)

On Tuesday night, former President Donald Trump faced Vice President Kamala Harris for their first and likely only debate of the 2024 election season. Harris, channeling her prosecutor background, goaded Trump into making a series of preposterous statements. How might her performance influence undecided voters, and what impact could it have on the November election, still several weeks away? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

09-11
10:43

Who Is J.D. Vance? (w/ Harry Kazianis)

On Monday, Donald Trump announced Ohio Senator J.D. Vance as his 2024 running mate. A recent convert to the MAGA movement, Vance has championed Trump’s “America First” foreign policy vision and vocally denounced NATO and U.S. support for Ukraine. What might his selection signal both for the future of U.S. foreign policy and for the direction of the Republican party? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Harry J. Kazianis, executive editor of The National Interest. Kazianis previously served as part of the foreign policy team for Senator Ted Cruz's 2016 presidential campaign and worked for the conservative Heritage Foundation.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

07-16
11:48

Are We in a New Cold War? (w/ Dan Negrea)

As Washington confronts increasing belligerence from China, Russia, Iran, and North Korea, does the West face the start of a new “cold war”? How should policymakers define victory? And what would a second Trump administration mean for the confrontation? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Dan Negrea, the Senior Director of the Freedom and Prosperity Center at the Atlantic Council and coauthor with Matthew Kroenig of the new book We Win, They Lose: Republican Foreign Policy and the New Cold War. From 2019 to 2021, Negrea was the State Department’s Special Representative for Commercial and Business Affairs. He previously served as a member of the Secretary of State’s Policy Planning office between 2018 and 2019, where he was responsible for the economic portfolio.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-29
28:26

GOP Opposition to Ukraine Aid (w/ Curt Mills)

In a pivotal moment amidst Russia’s ongoing invasion of Ukraine, the U.S. Senate passed a $60 billion aid package for Kyiv in a 79-to-18 vote Tuesday night. Despite the win, the measure faced dogged opposition in the House, where a majority of GOP members—112—voted against it. What explains the growing indifference, if not outright hostility, to Ukraine aid in the Republican Party? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Curt Mills, executive director of The American Conservative. Mills previously worked at The National Interest, U.S. News & World Report, Washington Examiner, and the Spectator. He was a 2018-2019 Robert Novak Journalism fellow.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-25
13:58

Turkey’s Elections: A Major Blow for Erdoğan? (w/ Greg Priddy)

Media coverage has depicted Turkey’s nationwide local elections on Sunday as a major blow for President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan and his ruling Justice and Development Party. How significant is this political defeat, and what does it augur both for Turkish and Middle East politics? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Greg Priddy, a Senior Fellow for the Middle East at the Center for the National Interest. Priddy consults for corporate and financial clients on political risk in the region and previously served as Director for Global Oil at Eurasia Group.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

04-01
10:08

Antonin Scalia and Today's Supreme Court (w/ James Rosen)

Antonin Scalia’s staunch advocacy for constitutional originalism and textualism—and his 1986 appointment to the U.S. Supreme Court—defined a new era in American jurisprudence. As his heirs move to form majorities throughout the federal court system, only now is the full impact of his legacy being realized. In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with James Rosen, chief White House correspondent for Newsmax. Rosen is the recent author of Scalia: Rise to Greatness, 1936 to 1986, the first installment in an expected two-volume biography of the Supreme Court justice.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

03-27
28:40

Terror in Moscow and Putin’s Response (w/ Paul Saunders)

Yesterday’s devastating terrorist attack in Moscow—which left at least 115 dead and reportedly implicates the ISIS-K terror group—poses a significant political challenge for Russia’s freshly reelected president Vladimir Putin. In a bid to manage the fallout from his government’s intelligence failure, Putin's initial remarks this morning hinted at Ukrainian complicity, signaling a clear strategy to shift blame. What are the implications for Russian politics as well as Putin’s war in Ukraine? In this special episode, Jacob Heilbrunn speaks with Paul Saunders, a noted Russia expert and the president of the Center for the National Interest. Saunders served in the Bush Administration from 2003 to 2005 as Senior Advisor to the Under Secretary of State for Global Affairs.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

03-23
27:29

Congress’s Tug-of-War Over Ukraine Aid (w/ Scott Cullinane)

As members of Congress depart Washington for yet another recess, critical aid to Ukraine remains stalled. What explains the eight-month deadlock, and what are its consequences for both U.S. foreign policy and Ukrainian defense capabilities? In this episode, Jacob Heilbrunn talks with Scott Cullinane, director of government affairs at the non-profit Razom for Ukraine. Cullinane previously served as founding executive director of the non-profit U.S.-Europe Alliance as well as various positions with the U.S. House Foreign Affairs Committee.Music by Aleksey Chistilin from Pixabay

03-21
15:11

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