Innovations in Sustainable Finance

In this episode, I speak with Annu Nieminen, CEO of Upright, a Finnish technology startup with an automated method to quantify companies' net impact on people, planet, society, and knowledge. Upright combines machine learning and natural language processing to analyze scientific data and company activities, providing an impact profile for companies worldwide.My favorite takeaways from the conversation were:Compromising the Answer, Not the Question: Annu emphasized the importance of focusing on the right question, even if the answer remains imperfect at first. Upright’s model prioritizes understanding a company's true net impact, even if it challenges traditional ESG metrics.Hidden ESG Champions and Challenges: I loved Annu’s examples of hidden impact champions like condom manufacturers and sewage infrastructure companies—both create significant positive health and societal impacts, even if they’re not traditional ESG darlings. Conversely, modern tech companies working in areas like ad optimization for tobacco or fast fashion can have surprisingly negative net impacts.Scarce Human Capital: Upright introduces the idea of evaluating companies based on the opportunity cost of the human talent they employ. This provocative metric raises critical questions about how we allocate the world’s brightest minds.The Power of Open Data: Annu’s vision for the future is to create a neutral, science-based resource for understanding a company’s impact. She hopes this could become the default source for anyone searching for "Tesla impact" or similar, allowing a common-sense starting point for discussions.For listeners who want to dive deeper, Upright offers a free version of its platform to explore company impact profiles. Check it out and see what your favorite company is doing for (or to) the world. https://uprightplatform.com

In this episode, I speak with Alex Edmans, a professor of Finance at London Business School. Many of you in the audience will have heard of Alex before. We traced his evolution of thought regarding sustainable finance, covering his extensive body of work, including the book “Grow the Pie,” his academic papers, op-eds, and TED Talks, including his most recent paper: Sustainable Investing: Evidence from the Field. My favorite takeaways from the conversation were: When I asked when he first got interested in sustainability, Alex surprised me by saying he was never interested in sustainability or sustainable finance per se. He was interested in long-term value creation but noticed that sustainability aspects are sometimes important but overlooked or misunderstood.I realized how the concept of competitive advantage is really at the heart of figuring out how a business or an individual can drive change. Focusing on what you can do very well right now can help to exit ESG compliance mode and enter an innovative mindset that helps society move forward.I asked Alex whether he is more or less optimistic about businesses solving important problems than he was four years ago. Delightfully, he is MORE optimistic, which I find so encouraging. If you like the pod, I can only recommend diving more deeply into Alex’s work, which is very nicely made accessible on his homepage: https://alexedmans.com

In this episode, I speak with Fridtjof Detzner, co-founder of the climate venture capital fund Planet A, based in Berlin. Fridtjof had early success with an internet company, went on an eye-opening trip to Asia, and came back determined to boost innovation in all climate-relevant sectors and technologies. My favorite insights of this conversation were:Climate tech investing is not narrow. It affects many different industrial processes, from alternative proteins, to plastics, to shipping fuels, to electricity storage, and software.The hard part about innovating industrial processes is that scaling is very expensive. Entrepreneurs need money to build large industrial plants, before it is 100% clear that the solution will be profitable. That opens up crucial but also challenging role for investors to enable innovation.While large incumbent companies would have advantages to support risky innovations with their balance sheet, history shows that small companies are essential to drive radical innovation.For those who want to dig deeper here is the link to Planet A, which also has links to the companies that are mentioned during the conversation. 

In this episode, I speak with Liam McGroarty, Strategic Development Manager at UEFA, about the social impacts of football. We discuss how the beautiful game improves lives and how investing in football could have substantial positive impacts. Fun fact: Liam started out as a priest but turned his professional efforts towards the “biggest religion” and is passionate about the power of sports.  My favorite learnings were:All things considered, amateur football probably adds more value to a national economy than the professional leagues. In Germany, the estimate is EUR 13.9 billion, vs. EUR 4.48 billion.Many of the benefits are health-related, but a sizable component is crime reduction. There is compelling evidence that an accessible offer to play can prevent kids from having problems with the police. The key is to bring the offer to those kids who don’t play already, for example, because their parents do not encourage it. We dive into the fascinating example of the Chances Program. In this social outcome partnership municipalities pay for outcomes such as improved school attendance, sports clubs deliver the intervention to a total of 6000 children, and impact investors provide the financing upfront. Join us for a wonderful conversation that lifted my spirits about a few things that really do work for society.

In this episode, I speak with Bertrand Gacon, Co-Founder and CEO at Impaakt. Impaakt is an impact assessment platform that crowdsources information from hundreds of contributors and thousands of reviewers. My favorite insights from this conversation were:I can highly recommend to try out the platform. You can explore company profiles, follow discussions, and put in your personal view of what is important and generate lists of companies or funds that are either “heroes” or “villains” given your priorities.The question of which companies have the most positive impacts on people and planet is simple. The answer is tricky. This platform relies on both paid and voluntary contributors to provide a nuanced answer.According to Bertrand, it should be us – the citizens – who decide what counts as socially responsible, not bankers, not corporations, and also not regulators because they tend to come too late. Power to the people!

In this episode, I had the pleasure of talking to Christoph Gosdenoz, partner and chairman of FairCapital. FairCapital is an impact investor based in Switzerland that specializes in financing solutions for Fairtrade cooperatives in the global south. My favorite insights from this conversation were: It’s the specific design and timing rather than just the interest rate that determines whether a loan helps a cooperative.  One of FairCapital’s innovations is to use existing purchase agreements from reliable buyers as collateral. FairCapital is open to retail impact investors at a minimum commitment of CHF 5’000. However, there is a plan for a token that would allow retail investors to become impact investors with very small amounts.

In this episode, I sit down with Sam Vionnet, the author of Impact Thinking, subtitled “Learn critical thinking skills to make better decisions that create societal value”. The book is based on 15 years of experience in consulting with multinational corporations, NGOs, and investors. Sam reveals that there are a lot of beliefs that don’t stand up to scrutiny. Rather than blindly following numbers and standards, he advocates for a principled approach that, first of all, establishes what should be measured. He presents a step-by-step framework for thinking about impact up and down the value chain and keeping an eye on trade-offs. I think the book is really helpful in assessing impact constructively and fighting greenwashing with intellectual rigor.More about the book here: https://www.valuingnature.ch/post/the-impact-thinking-book

Can you imagine voting yourself on who should sit on the board of a company you are invested in? Perhaps on your cell-phone?  In this episode, I discuss with Georgia Stewart, Co-founder and CEO of Tumelo, how their technology democratizes shareholder voting and explore the opportunities and risks that direct shareholder voting presents in the context of sustainable finance.  Nowadays, shareholder voting is usually delegated to asset managers, raising questions about whether the voice of the ultimate owners is heard. Georgia introduces the concept of “Pass-through Voting,” which allows investors in pooled funds to vote at company AGMs proportionate to their fund ownership. She explains how Tumelo’s technology not only aligns the interests of shareholders and corporations but also increases shareholder participation and engagement. Some of my favorite insights from this episode  Pass-through voting potentially empowers long-term thinking investors to have a say, shifting the voting power from short-term focused asset managers.Even if “Expression on Wish” doesn’t directly empower shareholders to vote, it can increase people’s interest and engagement in financial matters, including saving and investing. While there is a debate about whether “direct democracy” is a good idea in the context of shareholder voting, shareholders have a right to vote that was difficult to realize so far. New technology, such as Tumelo’s, can help realize it. Similar to a representative democracy, interest groups such as NGOs could take the role of parties that provide voting guidance, helping individuals make informed choices.

In this episode, I had a conversation with Philippe van der Beck, who wrote a fascinating paper (work in progress) titled "Flow-driven ESG returns". The paper highlights that investing $1 in sustainable mutual funds can increase the value of green firms by 40 cents. This raises questions about whether ESG investing really has an impact.Philippe explains in detail how he arrived at this statement. He cautions that the impact is limited to the stock price, and it is challenging to say how it affects real outcomes. Nevertheless, it is an intriguing deep dive into how markets and prices move, and how sustainable investing may drive prices and behavior more than the standard models in finance would suggest.

Did you know that the University of St. Gallen in collaboration with Solarify offers the opportunity to invest into solar panels on their gym rooftop? In this episode, I talk to Aurel Schmid, founder of Solarify. Together we dive into the finance and impact behind crowd-founded solar panels and discover how small scale investor can have an impact towards green energy. We find out what makes the solar rooftop project at the University of St. Gallen special and what kind of return and impact investors can expect from it. We conclude with an outlook from Aurel on the current challenges they face and what he wishes to see in the industry.Link to the HSG project: https://solarify.ch/produkt/hsg-sporthalle/

In this episode, I talk to Lena Hörnlein, a senior manager at B-Capital Partners. Our discussion revolves around the interaction between sustainable finance regulations, including SFDR, and the operational landscape of a fund exclusively centered on energy transition assets. Lena provides a detailed explanation of how the regulation works. Interestingly, Lena's fund has opted for Article 8 as opposed to Article 9, a decision grounded in caution. Ultimately, we conclude by underscoring the pivotal role of regulations in other domains, such as electricity markets, in expediting the progress of the energy transition.

In this episode, I talk to Christine Chow about active ownership. Christine explains what it is, its dos and dont's, and what investors can bring to the table that companies do not know yet. We explore the tension that the best kind of active ownership is the most difficult to make visible, come up with an idea for professional certification, and Christine explains that being good at engaging is like being good at riding a horse.

Did you know that most large European corporations compensate executives for reaching ESG targets? Is that a good thing, and how should this be done?I discuss these fascinating questions with Tom Gosling, perhaps the world's most experienced expert regarding ESG compensation. I learned a lot in this episode! Some (but not all) of my favorite insights:Even if ESG targets contribute to long-term shareholder value, it can make sense to incentivize middle managers on ESG because they are usually incentivized on annual targets.ESG incentives can work when they are aligned with overall strategy, focus on one central ESG issue, and are monitored by a knowledgeable anchor investorThere is no way to fix the economic incentives given by the market and regulation with managerial incentives.Tom has written about this topic a lot, as you can see on his homepage. Here are some direct links to documents mentioned during the podcast:Paying for net zero assesses the quality of climate targets in large European companies. Spoiler alert: it’s not great.Paying well by paying for good is a report produced in collaboration with PwC looking at whether executive pay should be linked to ESG targets, and if so how. The follow-up paper Paying for good for all looks at practice and attitudes globally and extends the analysis to consider alignment of broader company-wide reward strategy with ESG.Executive Pay and ESG Performance is an excellent summary of the first report in blog format.And here two of the recent papers that Tom mentions:Say on ESG: The Adoption of Say-on-Pay Laws, ESG Contracting, and Firm ESG PerformanceExecutive Compensation Tied to ESG Performance: International Evidence

I talk with Per Einar Ellefsen, CEO and founder of Amundsen IM, a fund that specializes in the European primary equity market. We have a long conversation about the role of ESG factors in the IPO process, from the angle of risk assessment, investment performance, and impact. Along the way, we talk about a lot of interesting companies: Azelis, Verallia, Visma, Eurogroup Laminations, and EDP Renewables. https://amundsen-im.com

In this episode, Stephanie and I delve into sustainability-linked bonds (SLBs) to explore their potential benefits and risks. SLBs have grown to a USD 280 billion market and represent an exciting alternative to green bonds in the sustainable debt market. When issuing an SLB, companies pledge to reach a sustainability performance target as part of the contract. If the company does not reach the target, the bond investors receive an additional “step-up” coupon. We analyze the example of a recent Air France KLM issue. One of Stephanie’s key points is that market pricing should reveal which SLBs have ambitious targets. Here are a few links if you want to follow up on some of the points we cover.Anthropocene Fixed Income Institute Research on SLBsSecond party opinion on Air France-KLM SLB 

In this episode, I talk to Jan Anton van Zanten, a sustainable investing expert at Robeco. We discuss Robeco's open-source SDG scores, a unique approach to measuring companies' sustainability performance. We also delve into the importance of understanding the impact of companies on society and the environment, and how engaging with companies can drive positive change. Finally, we touch on Robeco's decision to make their data open source and how academics and others can benefit from that.Link to Anton’s paperIf you have any feedback, please write to, I would love to hear from you: isf-podcast@unisg.ch

In this episode, I talk with Philipp Aeby, founder and CEO of RepRisk, an ESG data provider. We discuss how innovations in artificial intelligence have changed the way RepRisk processes data. We then move on to the role of transparency, how it can help to improve business conduct globally, as well as about the transparency of RepRisk’s own data generating process.Links to some of the things we talk abouthttps://www.reprisk.com/research-lab For questions or feedback write to isf-podcast@unisg.ch

I ask Harald Walkate why he thinks blended finance is like music. Harald knows about finance, he has 25 years of experience, having worked at Natixis Investment Managers and Aegon Asset Management. He also knows about music, he plays the piano really well. Harald explains how blended finance works, and how it transforms the idea of "sustainable finance" into "financing sustainability". Along the way, we talk about wind turbines in Mali, Milton Friedman, how to access deep pockets, and scoring impact points. As a bonus, you can listen to one of Harald’s recent recordings.For those looking for more information, some links to the things we talk about: The Climate Investor 1 Fund Link to the track and Harald’s Music on Spotify You can find the 6 articles in the “Music is Like Blended Finance” series that we discuss in the podcast on the website of Route17, the blended finance advisory firm that Harald is a founding partner of: https://route17.world/thought-leadership/ For questions or feedback write to isf-podcast@unisg.ch

Sustainable Finance has become an important phenomenon in financial markets but is still a new field. That means, there are new things happening every day. It is important to keep innovating in this field, and to critically evaluate what is going on. In this podcast, Julian Kölbel discusses ideas in sustainable finance. New ideas, good ideas, even dangerous ideas. He invites guests who are doing something novel, something interesting, something different that is worth discussing. His goal is to learn from them, to connect their ideas to academic insights, and contribute to the future development of the field of sustainable finance.Julian Kölbel works as an Assistant Professor in Sustainable Finance at the Center for Financial Services Innovation at the University of St.Gallen (FSI-HSG). For questions or feedback write to isf-podcast@unisg.ch