Populism has been winning big in recent years. It is the wave that has buoyed Donald Trump’s second term in office, Marine Le Pen’s popularity in France, and Reform UK’s recent leaps and bounds in British polling. Across the West, authoritarian populists now govern one-quarter of the world's democracies.
But what explains the surge of populism across the democratic world - and can it be reversed?
In this episode, economist and commentator Will Hutton speaks with Labour MP Liam Byrne about his new book Why Populists Are Winning: And How to Beat Them. Drawing on original polling, international reporting and interviews with leading thinkers, Byrne narrows down the meaning of populism, interrogates the funding, media ecosystems and language deployed by populist leaders, and the psyches of those who are persuaded to vote for them.
Byrne explains how populist leaders mobilise what he calls five distinct ‘tribes’ of voters, and which of these can be appealed to. He sets out his argument for rebuilding what he calls the ‘radical centre’ of Western politics, and why confronting populism requires more than simply condemning it.
Liam Byrne is a Labour MP, a member of His Majesty's Privy Council and the Chair of the House of Commons Business and Trade Select Committee. He served in Gordon Brown's Cabinet, in No. 10 Downing Street and HM Treasury, and chaired the Global Parliamentary Network on the World Bank and IMF 2019-2025. He is the author of more than twenty publications on economics, foreign policy and public service reform including The Inequality of Wealth. His latest is Why Populists Are Winning: and How to Beat Them, which is available now online and in bookstores.
Will Hutton is the former Editor-in-Chief of the Observer. He is a commentator, columnist, and author of books including The State We’re In, How Good We Can Be, and This Time No Mistakes: How to Remake Britain.
If you'd like to become a Member and get access to all our full conversations, plus all of our Members-only content, just visit intelligencesquared.com/membership to find out more.
For £4.99 per month you'll also receive:
- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared episodes, wherever you get your podcasts
- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series
- 15% discount on livestreams and in-person tickets for all Intelligence Squared events
...
Or Subscribe on Apple for £4.99:
- Full-length and ad-free Intelligence Squared podcasts
- Bonus Intelligence Squared podcasts, curated feeds and members exclusive series
…
Already a subscriber? Thank you for supporting our mission to foster honest debate and compelling conversations! Visit intelligencesquared.com to explore all your benefits including ad-free podcasts, exclusive bonus content and early access.
…
Subscribe to our newsletter here to hear about our latest events, discounts and much more.
https://www.intelligencesquared.com/newsletter-signup/
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices
Does Charlotte get a chance to talk in part 2? 🤣
Rich guys and how they got rich and what they spend their riches on and how wonderfully brilliant and insightful they are. Boring.
the answer to most of these debates is never one or the other but a gray area in between...
interesting perspective
interesting convo
we don't need myths. in the same way we can accept the rules of a made up game, we can accept and live how a society has set up its rules.
i feel like i wouldn't want immortality unless i got to decide when to shut it all down.
weird to hear about AI being discussed over a decade ago and being in the AI world now
i feel it has to be a balance of caring for your well being and caring for others - odd he's a conservative commentator when they are the ones who tend to care less for other people and are very "i got mine, screw you" or "unless you are exactly like me, screw you"
we need community and purpose... we don't need religion and unsubstantiated claims
dont drink wine but still interesting to hear about how it's judged
there's this weird idea of looking at facts and caring about outcomes instead of just relying on what you feel like should be the case
again the question isn't should we have done nothing, it's whether this was the correct response and looking back, I'd say no
Glad to hear someone with reasonable views
Chanel supports genocide #BDS now #NoThanks https://www.algemeiner.com/2023/10/18/chanel-tory-burch-others-fashion-donate-help-israelis-impacted-hamas-war/
As a Pakistani history teacher, I am enjoying this conversation. it is informative.
Podcast is great but this episode is meaningless, unstructured rambling.
This guest is #RoseColoredGlassesSquared or maybe even to 3rd power, while vastly underestimating the power of #TribalIdentities, #ConfirmationBias & #PartisanMediaInputs. Media presents polar opposites incompatible truths that people believe implicitly. At least in the US, the people he is talking about might be the middle 10-15%. The bulk of the rest are dyed in the wool #TrueBelievers for their side, where no amount of evidence can sway their views. Even #Socrates said you couldn't change a man's mind with facts, but only with months of many discussions questioning him with curiosity until he finds his own logic errors, and even then thats a maybe.
say what you mean, Ms. Jin, don't spanning around, unfortunately the podcast does NOT answer the question ( which I'm afraid she simply can't for the very obvious reason): does Western understand China wrong?
Complete nonsense. Sexist man hating feminist spin doctor. Don't waste your time. Especially if you are looking for a balanced look at the world we live in. Sad this is getting any air time.