It’s OK That You’re Not OK with Megan Devine

We know that healthcare workers are burned out and exhausted. Provider mental health is a huge issue… but are the institutions listening?  This week on It’s OK, burnout expert Dr. Jessi Gold talks to us about (obviously) burnout, but also ways HCW* can start to change the workplace culture into one that actually values the human workforce. Sound unlikely? Listen in for Dr. Gold’s ideas for a grassroots movement - using the language of capitalism to get the c-suite to listen. *We talk a bunch about HCW in this episode, but the topics involved are relevant to everyone who feels even a little bit exhausted by the pressures of the world.  Dr. Gold’s new book, How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine, is out on October 8, 2024. For more info visit drjessigold.com   In this episode we cover:   Can you be emotionless and still practice good medicine? How medical training seeks out perfectionists, and then uses that perfectionism as a way to wring out even more work  Why you can’t self-care your way out of burnout, but you can support yourself inside the catastrophe Ways to get the administration to start valuing their workforce (spoiler: it involves speaking the language of capitalism!)    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr. Jessi Gold is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at Washington University School of Medicine in St Louis. She’s a nationally recognized expert on healthcare worker mental health and burnout (particularly during the pandemic). Her work can be found in major publications like The New York Times, The Atlantic, The Washington Post, and TIME. Find the “burned out burnout expert” at drjessigold.com and on social media @drjessigold   Pre-order Dr. Gold’s book - How Do You Feel?: One Doctor's Search for Humanity in Medicine   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Physician Support Line on social @shrink.rapping   American Foundation for Suicide Prevention on social @afspnational   Clinician Well-Being Knowledge Hub developed by @theNAMedicine    The Emotional PPE Project   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

The world is such a hot mess: every day a new disaster, a new human rights catastrophe. It can just feel… endless. Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch joins us to talk about outrage and trauma and community building - it’s like the greatest hits of modern culture. But mostly, she joins us to talk about art - specifically, the ways that storytelling helps us band together and work towards the world we all want.  PS: Listen all the way through so you don’t miss Aubrey’s slightly sinister but ultimately functional ideas on hope.    In this episode we cover:  - The relationship between rage and creation: when there’s so much wrong with the world all you can do is scream - Why taking action to change things matters - even if your actions won’t save everyone - Women and anger: hoo boy, it’s a whole thing.  - Why healing inside trauma is actually kind of… boring.  - Connecting through the power of storytelling   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Aubrey Hirsch is the author of Why We Never Talk About Sugar, a collection of short stories, and This Will Be His Legacy, a flash fiction chapbook. Her stories, essays and comics have appeared widely in print and online in places like American Short Fiction, Vox, TIME, The New York Times, The Rumpus, The Toast, and in the New York Times bestselling anthology, Not That Bad. Her essay on trauma and surviving gun violence is a must read. Find it here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Aubrey occasionally teaches comics for “non-artists.” Check her TW @aubreyhirsch for announcements.  Aubrey publishes new comics and essays on Roxane Gay’s substack, The Audacity.  Aubrey’s written on so many topics relevant to human life. Find a long list of awesome essays on her website, aubreyhirsch.com Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you look at social media with its reliance on meme-based psychology, you’d think that the Buddhist approach to life is to not let things get to you - that the true spiritual path helps you rise above such limited, unenlightened human feelings like grief, greed, and resentment.    This week on It’s OK, Zen teacher Koshin Paley Ellison is here to tell you that your suffering deserves your attention.    In this episode we cover:    - How an experience of targeted violence shaped Koshin’s childhood, and what it’s taught him about the suffering of others - Why it’s healthier to spend time in the “life is suffering” part of the 4 Noble Truths, rather than rushing to the other 3 as solutions - How to work with the pain and the suffering in your own life, so that it doesn't fester and cause more harm - Why going to the furniture store looking for milk is only going to lead to disappointment - Koshin’s new book, Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Sensei Koshin Paley Ellison is an author, Zen teacher, and Jungian psychotherapist who has devoted his life to the study and application of psychotherapy and Buddhism. Koshin co-founded the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care, with his husband Chodo Robert Campbell, to transform the culture of care through contemplative practice by meeting illness, aging, and death with compassion and wisdom. Koshin’s work has been featured in The New York Times, PBS, and CBS Sunday Morning among other media outlets. His newest book is Untangled: Walking the Eightfold Path to Clarity, Courage, and Compassion. Find him on IG @koshinpaleyellison   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Chodo and Koshin joined us in season one of It’s Ok that You’re Not OK. Listen to that episode here.    Learn about the New York Zen Center’s contemplative care program at zencare.org   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

On the outside, veteran Jason Kander had everything going for him: successful political career, lovely family, the respect of his peers. But on the inside, he was struggling: nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts were constant companions. Jason joins us to talk about his new book, Invisible Storm, and what it really takes to go from post traumatic stress to post traumatic growth. (Don’t let that ‘post traumatic growth’ turn you away from this episode! There are no shortcuts to happiness here.)    In this episode we cover:    - Why most returning vets believe that getting help is great - for other people.  - The concept of “stolen valor” and how it relates to treatment options for PTSD - How Jason used shame as a way to give himself the illusion of control  - What “redemptive heroism” is, and why there’s a much better way to manage PTSD - Every trauma is valid trauma: avoiding the temptation of comparing emotional injury   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest: Jason Kander joined the Army National Guard in 2005 after getting a law degree at Georgetown University. He deployed in 2006 to Afghanistan, where his mission was to assess the corruption levels of former Afghan warlords and government leaders. Ten years after serving in Afghanistan, Jason Kander was a rising star in the Democratic Party, exploring a presidential run. But outside of the political spotlight, he was racked by nightmares, depression and suicidal thoughts. His book, Invisible Storm, shares the story of his experience with PTSD, and his hopes for anyone who’s survived trauma.  Jason is the president of the Veterans Community Project, a national nonprofit organization, and the host of Majority 54, one of the nation's most popular political podcasts. Follow him on social media @jasonkander   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: The book Jason mentioned is Tribe by Sebastian Junger   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.  Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Dr. Errol Pierre is a corporate executive, leader, mentor, and outspoken advocate for healthcare equity in the US and Haiti. HIs book, The Way Up, helps underrepresented individuals from all ethnic backgrounds achieve their professional goals and elevate their careers in today's workplace.    What you probably don’t know is that grief - in one form or another - plays a part in every one of those roles.    In this episode we cover:    Why a book about climbing the corporate ladder gets the spotlight on a show about grief How little kid Errol’s delayed root canal influenced adult Errol’s entire career Building the equitable world from the ground up: Errol’s work in Haiti  Why making healthcare more accessible will prevent more grief (when it’s avoidable), and reduce suffering (when it’s unavoidable)  Navigating racism in the corporate world    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest:  Dr. Errol Pierre is the Senior Vice President of State Programs at a large non-profit health plan in New York. He provides leadership, mentorship, and guidance to professionals of color across various industries, ensuring the advancement of diverse professionals into leadership positions. He’s also fiercely committed to healthcare equity - building a world where systemic equity is built into the foundation of all new ventures.    Follow Dr. Errol Pierre at @ErrolLPierre on most social platforms or visit errolpierre.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Errol’s book - The Way Up: Climbing the Corporate Mountain as a Professional of Color   For more on grief in the workplace, read “The Burden of Bereavement: Grief is the latest challenge for employers in the coronavirus era” and “How to Talk to a Grieving Customer”   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Nobody likes to talk about pet loss… but everybody wants to talk about pet loss. What a difficult scenario that is! Veterinary oncologist Dr. Renee Alsarraf, author of Sit, Stay, Heal, joins us to talk about grief, professionalism, and the importance of being human - on the job and off.    In this episode we cover:    The whole truth about loving - and losing - your pets The terrible advice Dr. Renee Alsarraf’s grad school teacher gave her (and why she refused to listen)  Why vets and other professionals should really NOT check their human emotions at the door When it’s time to welcome a new love into your life (human or otherwise) How Dr. Alsarraf’s experience with veterinary oncology did (and didn’t) prepare her for her own cancer diagnosis   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. About our guest:  Dr. Renee Alsarraf is a veterinary oncologist, lecturer, and philanthropist. Her book, Sit, Stay, Heal, is a moving and uplifting memoir of an esteemed veterinary oncologist fighting to save her four-legged patients while making sense of her own unexpected cancer diagnosis.   Find Dr. Alsarraf on IG @reneealsarraf and learn more about her book at sitstayhealbook.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Dr. Alsarraf’s book - Sit, Stay, Heal: What Dogs Can Teach Us about Living Well   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and  For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can you hide in plain sight? From trans beauty pageants in the Philippines, to the catwalks of New York City fashion week, to the Ted Talk mainstage – Filipina-American model Geena Rocero has lived an astounding life. This week on It’s OK that You’re Not OK, the author of Horse Barbie: A Memoir shares what it costs to suppress your true self in order to find safety and success, and why joy is powerful medicine.  Geena Rocero is a trans advocate, speaker, and author of the new book, Horse Barbie.   In this episode we cover:  Why do we have to talk about gender all the time anyway? How can parents support trans children?  The history of trans beauty pageants in the Philippines Why joy - and a sense of humor - are real survival tools   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related Episodes: Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle If I Survived, You Can Too! Author Emi Nietfeld on the Hollowness of the Transformation Narrative Over and Over Again: Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the Power of Storytelling About our guest: Geena Rocero is a Filipina-American model, public speaker, author, and trans rights advocate. Ms. Rocero made history as the first trans woman ambassador for Miss Universe Nepal, and the first trans Asian Playboy Playmate of the Year. Her TED Talk, “Why I Must Come Out,” has been viewed over 3.7 million times. She’s an advisory board member of SeeHer, a global coalition working to increase representation and accurate portrayal of all women and girls in marketing, media, and entertainment.  She’s spoken at the White House and United Nations, and has been featured on CNN, MSNBC, Glamour, Cosmopolitan, Vanity Fair, and Variety. Her book Horse Barbie: A Memoir was named one of the Best Memoirs of 2023 by Elle Magazine. Find her @geenarocero on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Watch Geena’s TED Talk “Why I Must Come Out”   Read Geena’s book - Horse Barbie: A Memoir    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Have you ever put on a face mask, expecting it to solve all your mental health problems?  That seems…unrealistic, but it’s what self-care marketing tells us: get your self-care right, and all your difficulties will evaporate. This week on It’s OK, Dr. Pooja Lakshmin, author of Real Self-Care, breaks down what “self-care” actually means when we’re living in a complex, capitalistic world. It’s an exploration of grief, burnout, and exhaustion, and what it takes to care for yourself inside systems that repeatedly ignore their part in your suffering.    In this episode we cover:  Why self-care doesn’t work How hope is different than optimism Does looking for your own answers mean you have to do things alone? Accepting help as a bid for connection How Dr. Lakshmin’s definition of boundaries can help you practice real self-care   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Follow the show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief   Related episodes: Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly   Living with Chronic Illness: A Conversation for Everyone with a Body with Sarah Ramey. About our guest: Dr. Pooja Lakshmin MD is a psychiatrist, a clinical assistant professor at George Washington University School of Medicine, and the founder and CEO of Gemma, the women’s mental health community centering impact and equity. She has spent thousands of hours taking care of women struggling with burnout, despair, depression, and anxiety in her clinical practice. Her debut non-fiction book, Real Self-Care: A Transformative Program for Redefining Wellness (Crystals, Cleanses, and Bubble Baths Not Included), is available in e-book, hardcover, and audiobook narrated by Pooja.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read “Hope is Not a Thing to Have – It’s a Skill to Practice” at Oprah Daily   Read “How Society Has Turned Its Back on Mothers” at The New York Times   Read “Saying ‘No’ Is Self-Care for Parents” at The New York Times   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

We’re in a massive climate crisis, but it’s hard to think about it, isn’t it?  It’s a great temptation to shut our eyes to climate change. It’s overwhelming. This week on the show, climate activist and author Bill McKibben on facing the reality of the climate crisis, understanding what needs to change, and what you can do - not just to change the course of humanity and the planet, but to feel more hopeful and connected as this all unfolds.    In this episode we cover:    Is halting climate change really dependent on personal recycling and whether we use plastic straws?  Is it okay to have intense emotional responses to wildfires, floods, and the inaction of those “in charge”?  How the boomer generation is using their experience and wealth to revisit the activism of their youth (and supporting younger activists at the same time) How talking about our fears and our ecological grief gives us common ground to fight for our future - and our present.  We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. For more on activism in the face of impossible odds listen to these related episodes:  Women, Life, Freedom: Grief and Power In Iran, with Nazanin Nour Wonder in an Age of Violence with Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Bill McKibben is an American environmentalist, author, and journalist who has written extensively on the impact of global warming. His books include The End of Nature, about climate change, and Falter: Has the Human Game Begun to Play Itself Out?, about the state of the environmental challenges facing humanity.  Bill is a contributing writer to The New Yorker (read his latest piece here), and founder of Third Act, which organizes people over the age of sixty for progressive change.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief Additional Resources: Terry Tempest Williams’ book Refuge: An Unnatural History of Family and Place, and her recent NYT article on Utah’s great Salt Lake (gift link, no subscription needed)   Explore Joanna Macy’s work on the intersection of grief and activism at her website, or her books, including Coming Back to Life: The Updated Guide to the Work That Reconnects, World as Lover, World as Self, and Widening Circles: A Memoir   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Can grief be an opportunity for growth and self-understanding? The answer, of course, is yes: but it’s a bit more complex than that. This week, author, philanthropist, activist Rachel Cargle on survival optimism, the resilience narrative, and why questioning the stories you tell yourself - with curiosity and kindness - is a powerful path of healing.    In this episode we cover:    How was grief modeled for you growing up, and how does that affect later grief? Can your memory of childhood grief be… entirely wrong? (or at least, inaccurate) Can you do grief wrong? The difference between curiosity and judgment Is it ok to feel relieved when a sick person dies?  Rachel’s new book, A Renaissance of Our Own   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Gabor Mate on why we celebrate trauma, aka: resilience  Illustrator Aubrey Hirsch on the power of storytelling as an act of healing About our guest: Rachel Cargle is a writer, entrepreneur and philanthropic innovator. Her new memoir, A Renaissance of Our Own, centers the reimagining of womanhood, solidarity and self. In 2018 she founded The Loveland Foundation, Inc., a non-profit offering free therapy to Black women and girls.    She’s also the founder of Elizabeth’s Bookshop & Writing Centre, a literacy space designed to amplify, celebrate and honor the work of writers who are often excluded from traditional cultural, social and academic canons. For more on her many endeavors, visit rachelcargle.com.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Rachel’s new book - A Renaissance of Our Own   The Great Unlearn – a self-paced, donation-based learning community   The Great Unlearn for Young Learners – an online learning space for young folks launching in 2022   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What would a meaningful life look like for you? According to Death Doula Alua Arthur, conversations about death can be the most enriching conversations we have.    It’s not about accepting death, or avoiding grief - it’s about building a relationship with yourself and others that doesn’t hold anything back. Why should you listen? Yeah, because you’re mortal and one day you'll die, but more importantly: because one day, hopefully in the far off future, you’ll look back at this life you’ve lived. Conversations about death can make that life so much better.    Alua’s new book is Briefly Perfectly Human: Making an Authentic Life by Getting Real about the End. For more info visit aluaarthur.com   In this episode we cover:    What’s a Death Doula?  Does being honest about death give you access to joy? Should you tell someone that they’re dying, or does that remove hope?  Why living each day like it’s your last is unrealistic (and what to do instead)  The linking of death and grief: Death and grief are married, but grief definitely dates around.    We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes: Trauma Surgeon Dr. Red Hoffman on the surprisingly broad umbrella of palliative care   The co-founders of the New York Zen Center for Contemplative Care on supporting burnout & stress among healthcare professionals & caregivers About our guest: Alua Arthur is a Death Doula, recovering attorney, and the founder of Going with Grace, a Death Doula training and end-of-life planning organization that exists to support people as they answer the question, “What must I do to be at peace with myself so that I may live presently and die gracefully?” She’s been featured in the LA Times, Vogue, Refinery29, The Doctors, and alongside Chris Hemsworth on the docuseries, Limitless. Find her at aluaarthur.com and on Instagram at @going_with_grace    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Alua’s new book - Briefly Perfectly Human   Going with Grace   Megan mentions this book -  Pronoia Is the Antidote for Paranoia   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be FixedSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do we lose when we’re not allowed to be angry?    In a lot of ways, anger is more taboo than grief. They’re deeply related, as you’ll hear in this two-part episode: both grief and anger are considered “negative” emotions, things you shouldn’t feel, and definitely shouldn’t express in polite company. But what if reclaiming our anger was the way to build the world - and the relationships - we most want? All of that and more with the best selling author of Rage Becomes Her, Soraya Chemaly.    In this two-part episode we cover:    What is the right amount of anger? Why deciding some emotions are “good” and some are “bad” isn’t really helpful  What would “anger competence” or “anger literacy” look like? (and why would you want that??)  Why Soraya says “most grief is ambiguous grief” How the old split between the head (logic) and the heart (emotion) cuts us off from what we most want Finding your best community by embracing your anger   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Soraya Chemaly is an award-winning writer and activist whose work focuses on the role of gender in culture, politics, religion, and media. She is the Director of the Women’s Media Center Speech Project and an advocate for women’s freedom of expression and expanded civic and political engagement. A prolific writer and speaker, her articles appear in TIME, The Verge, The Guardian, The Nation, HuffPost, and The Atlantic. Find her best selling book, Rage Becomes Her at sorayachemaly.com. Follow her on social media @sorayachemaly   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: We mention Pauline Boss in this episode. If you’re not familiar with her excellent work on ambiguous loss (a term she coined in the 1970s), check out her website at ambiguousloss.com   To read more about anger and how it relates to grief, check out It’s OK that You’re Not OK.   If you want to explore your anger with creative prompts and exercises, check out the guided journal for grief, How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What should you do if someone wants to be friends, but you’re not into it? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    Welcome to part two of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Starting over in a new place with new friends  Why we so often confuse boundaries with being mean or rude The power of social observation to gather data (Megan’s go-to move!)  Scripts for saying “no thank you” to a potential friendship when that feels both mean and necessary   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com    About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

What do you do when someone cuts you out of their life? How do you back away slowly from someone you really don’t want to be around? Boundaries are part of all human relationships, but they are TRICKY.    This week on It’s OK, part one of our show about boundaries - how to make them, how to keep them, and sometimes, how to breach them - with special guest Dr. Alexandra Solomon, host of Reimagining Love. In this episode we cover:   Why relational self-awareness is the key to all good relationships Can step-parents and adult step-kids get along after a loss in the family?  How to negotiate the relationship you want when the other people maybe don’t want you around The difference between “letting go of outcome” and setting yourself up for success   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr Alexandra Solomon is one of the most trusted voices in the world of relationships. She’s a licensed clinical psychologist at The Family Institute at Northwestern University  and the author of two bestselling books: Loving Bravely and Taking Sexy Back.    You might know her from her popular instagram channel @dr.alexandra.solomon, or from her podcast, Reimagining Love. Find her at dralexandrasolomon.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Want to train with Dr. Solomon? Check out her current training courses at dralexandrasolomon.com   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.   Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

If you’ve lived through horrific trauma or abuse, is it really fair of us to say that the ways you’ve learned to cope are “bad,” or to use clinical speak, “maladaptive”?  This week on It’s OK, Stephanie Foo, author of What My Bones Know, joins me to talk about complex PTSD and the ways we pathologize human responses to trauma. You’ll also hear how claiming your own messy, complex coping mechanisms can help you build a community that sees you and loves you.  If you’re haunted by any type of trauma, or know someone who is, this conversation is a great introduction to complex PTSD, and the work of survivorship.    In this episode we cover:    Why pretending to be a high-performing badass is maybe not in your best interest How storytelling can make you feel less freakish and alone The real problem with most books on trauma and C-PTSD   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Stephanie Foo is a C-PTSD survivor, writer, and radio producer, most recently for This American Life. Her work has aired on Snap Judgment, Reply All, 99% Invisible, and Radiolab. A noted speaker and instructor, she has taught at Columbia University and has spoken at venues from Sundance Film Festival to the Missouri Department of Mental Health. She lives in New York City with her husband.   Find her at stephaniefoo.me and on Instagram @foofoofoo   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional Resources: Read Stephanie’s book, What My Bones Know: A Memoir of Healing from Complex Trauma   Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links. Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok. For more information, including clinical training and consulting and to share your thoughts, visit us at refugeingrief.com Listen to previous episodes of It’s OK that You’re Not OK!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

There’s no denying the grief that permeates everyday life. It’s in the news, in our communities, and in our personal lives. The thing is - we never really talk about how much this grief connects us.  This episode is STUNNING. It has gifts for everyone - whether you’re grieving a personal loss or you’re an activist of any kind. It was recorded in the summer of 2023, so you will not hear us mention P*lestine - you can bet if we’d recorded it now, that grief, and that need for belonging, would be present. If you ARE an activist or organizer, you need to hear what Malkia has to say about our narrative strategies, and what it really takes to make change happen. If we learn to lean into that grief together, we might really create the beautiful world we all long for. Malkia Devich-Cyril knows grief from the inside out. They grew up knowing their mom would die of her illness. They grew up immersed in the grief that is endemic to being Black in America. And they cared for their wife, comedian Alana Devich-Cyril, through her death in 2018.   In this episode we cover:    The difference between sorrow and grief How “feelings aren’t facts” relates to grief Is it normal to feel like you failed to keep someone alive?  Why do narrative strategists (aka: activists) need to understand grief?  Are book bans a form of grief? (spoiler: yes, but maybe not for the reasons you think) Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here. Related episodes:  Rage Becomes Her (and by “her” I mean US) with Soraya Chemaly Collective Grief and Communal Joy: with Baratunde Thurston Wonder in an Age of Violence: Valarie Kaur & See No Stranger About our guest: Malkia Devich-Cyril is an activist, writer and public speaker on issues of digital rights, narrative power, Black liberation and collective grief. They are also the founding and former Executive Director of MediaJustice. Their writing has appeared in publications like Politico, Motherboard, Essence Magazine, The Atlantic, and three documentary films including the Oscar nominated 13th. Find them at @radical_loss Instagram.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read “The Antidote to Authoritarianism” from The Atlantic   Read Grief Belongs in Social Movements: We Embrace it?  Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

PROLONGED GRIEF DISORDER! It’s everywhere - social media, The New York Times, The Washington Post… it’s the hot new medical condition everyone’s talking about. But why is everyone so mad about it?  This week on the show, an overview of this hotly contested “new” human disorder, and what it means for the average person, for healthcare providers, and honestly - for the whole world. This is one medical diagnosis that affects everyone.    In this episode we cover:    Why anyone should care what the APA thinks about grief The actual diagnostic criteria for prolonged grief disorder (translated from psych-jargon into the way real people speak) Access to care + funding for research: two of the main reasons people think this diagnosis could be helpful (and why it isn’t)  The real world impact of the DSM: doubling down on shame and misunderstanding One surprise reason this diagnosis *could* be seen as a good thing   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: For an interview with both Megan and the author of the NYT article, Ellen Barry, on WGBH TV Boston, click here.    To read Megan’s more detailed response to the NYT article, check out the original Twitter thread, and the extended thread.    Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Sam Sanders is a well known and well loved radio and podcast host. He went a little extra-viral for a recent episode of his show, Vibe Check,  in which he and his co-hosts openly discussed grief. Maybe you heard that episode: Life Has Been Lifing Lately.  This week on It’s OK That You’re Not OK, Sam joins us to talk about being open with his grief, and the ongoing relationships we have even after death.    In this episode we cover:    What happens if you give grief a voice?  The double-edged sword of church communities Why understanding context helps you treat yourself more kindly How men speaking honestly about grief helps everyone Throwing out the rule book on grief   We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2023.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   Related episodes:  A Renaissance of our Own: Rachel Cargle    Coming Home to Yourself with Alex Elle   About our guest: Sam Sanders is the host of Into It, the flagship culture podcast from Vulture, and the co-host of Vibe Check on Stitcher. He covered electoral politics for NPR, and was one of the original co-hosts of The NPR Politics Podcast. Sam also created and hosted the NPR news & culture podcast, It’s Been a Minute. Find him on social @samsanders   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed Follow our show on Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and TikTok @refugeingrief and @itsokpod on TikTok   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Ever wonder what doctors say about their patients when they think no one can hear?  Dr. Rana Awdish doesn’t have to wonder - as a patient, she overheard a lot of distressing things. Her experience led her to change how medical providers speak about - and to - their patients, spreading compassion through communication (which we know is a mission dear to my heart). Listen in to hear Dr. Awdish’s take on the pressure on healthcare workers, too.  Content note: mention of life-threatening illness, pregnancy loss, medical industry   In this episode we cover:    The “two educations” of Dr. Awdish - med school and a life threatening illness Why miscommunication is such a dangerous medical practice Being present is only the first step - validation is where the real healing begins Why compassionate communication helps doctors - maybe even more than it helps patients  The very cool CLEAR program - using trained actors to help doctors & medical providers learn how to connect with patients going through some of the hardest times of their lives We're re-releasing some of our favorite episodes from the first 3 seasons. This episode was originally recorded in 2022.   Looking for a creative exploration of grief? Check out the best selling Writing Your Grief course here.   About our guest: Dr. Rana Awdish is a critical care physician operating on the front lines during COVID-19 at Henry Ford Hospital in Detroit, MI. Her own serious illness in 2008 has informed her belief in the power of compassion, sacred listening, and community. As medical director of the Care Experience for the Henry Ford Healthcare System, she is training staff to practice empathy in critical care. Find her at ranaawdishmd.com   About Megan:  Psychotherapist Megan Devine is one of today’s leading experts on grief, from life-altering losses to the everyday grief that we don’t call grief. Get the best-selling book on grief in over a decade, It’s Ok that You’re Not OK, wherever you get books. Find Megan @refugeingrief   Additional resources: Read Dr. Awdish’s book - In Shock: My journey from death to recovery and the redemptive power of hope Read  “Restoration in the Aftermath” and ”The Shape of the Shore” from Dr. Awdish Creative Writing as a Medical Instrument - paper by Jay Baruch, cited by Dr. Awdish Want to talk with Megan directly? Join our patreon community for live monthly Q&A grief clinics: your questions, answered. Want to speak to her privately? Apply for a 1:1 grief consultation here.    Check out Megan’s best-selling books - It’s OK That You're Not OK and How to Carry What Can’t Be Fixed   Books and resources may contain affiliate links.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.