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Law Technology Now

Law Technology Now

Author: Legal Talk Network

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Our new monthly podcast features the editor-in-chief of Law Technology News, Monica Bay, interviewing key experts of the legal technology community, about top issues confronting the legal profession. If it's tech, it's a potential topic — from e-discovery to network infrastructure; from creating courtroon graphics to launching "green law" programs. Each month, Ms. Bay will bring LTN's pages alive with brisk, incisive discussion of today's top trends and developments
174 Episodes
Redefining the Hub

Redefining the Hub


While legions are hopeful for a return to normalcy as soon as possible, the pandemic's legacy will be felt for decades. The impact is already sure to prompt change from tech adoption to what defines an entity's business hub. Ralph Baxter, Daniel Rodriguez, and Dan Linna use their final episode as hosts of LTNow to discuss life before and during the pandemic, and what they predict is next in their respective fields of expertise. Linna references disruptive innovation theorist Clayton Christensen in considering a different way for law firms to think, plan and talk about technology. Instead of choosing between prioritizing disruptive tech vs operational innovation, Linna says firms need to balance both to keep pace with an evolving industry. Rodriguez reviews the pandemic's impact on law schools, already struggling with decreased enrollment, law school finances, and student debt. He discusses regulation of law schools, the shift to all online early in the pandemic, grading changes, and how remote and hybrid learning is creating opportunities for improving teaching during precious hours in person and via technology while remote. For law firms, Ralph Baxter expects the pandemic will have game-changing ramifications. Specifically, he believes the disruption shared globally created a gateway for change for an industry on the precipice of progress. Years of talking gave way to sudden action by necessity. Baxter predicts changes and improvements beyond travel and space, down to the fundamental concept of how the workplace hub is defined. A brick-and-mortar space was the hub of activity pre-pandemic. But the new hub is information and the technology that connects people and processes to that information. Ralph Baxter served as Chairman & CEO of Orrick for nearly a quarter-century and is a member of Intapp's board of directors. Daniel W. Linna Jr. has a joint appointment at Northwestern Pritzker School of Law and McCormick School of Engineering as the Director of Law and Technology Initiatives and a Senior Lecturer. Former dean Daniel B. Rodriguez is the Harold Washington Professor at Northwestern University Pritzker School of Law. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Northwestern’s Jim Speta speaks with fellow law professor and host Dan Rodriguez about the suit against Facebook filed by the Federal Trade Commission and 48 state attorneys general. Speta, an internet law expert and interim dean of the law school, gives an overview of the case, and delves into the history of the FTC and Department of Justice that enables both entities to enforce antitrust laws. Speta and Rodriguez discuss whether the Biden administration will shift gears with the suit and whether breaking up the social media giant would benefit the three billion consumers who use the platform. Speta also shares his take on best possible outcomes and how they would protect consumer data and assure competitors have a fighting chance in the market. Jim Speta is interim dean and the Elizabeth Froehling Horner Professor of Law at Northwestern’s Pritzker School of Law. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Getting a job at a large firm and becoming a partner is vastly different than it was even in the 1990s. Where there once was a school-to-firm process and pipeline, Harvard Law’s David Wilkins tells host Ralph Baxter that hiring is dominated by lateral moves and recruiting of proven talent. Where young associates were given a long lead time to show their potential, metrics begin year one. And where achieving partnership was once akin to achieving tenure for professors, partners now have to prove their worth at every step. The current culture for partners, Wilkins says, is “What have you done for me lately?” Wilkins, who asked in his writing in 1996 and then in 2016 why there are so few Black lawyers in law firms, and Baxter, former chairman and CEO of Orrick, talk about the lack of substantial progress yet sincere intentions on the part of law firm leaders to achieve diversity. But both agree that having good intentions isn’t enough. Wilkins notes he will continue the conversation with his brother, Freshfields Partner Timothy A. Wilkins, during an Oct. 14 webinar, “Race, Sustainability, and Social Justice” hosted by Harvard Law School’s Center on the Legal Profession. Prof. David Wilkins is the faculty director of Harvard Law School’s Center on the Legal Profession.  Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Research Prof. Maura Grossman has long studied the effectiveness of machine learning and its implications for the delivery of legal services. She learned early on that machines were better than lawyers at many tasks, especially in the ediscovery process. But she recognized right away that to adopt and implement new technologies, lawyers needed to see proof that the new tools worked. In this episode, host Dan Linna talks to Grossman about what questions lawyers should be asking when evaluating tools purporting to use artificial intelligence to solve problems with legal services delivery. Grossman tells Linna that until there’s some sort of consumer consortium for AI, something like a Good Housekeeping Seal of Approval or Consumer Reports for algorithms, lawyers will need to be smart about evaluating the tools entering the market. She and Linna discussed eight questions that should guide a lawyer’s evaluation of AI tools. Grossman says lawyers should be asking pointed questions about: The problem or pain point the tool is trying to solve How much data cleanup has to happen before the tool can be used What training needs to be done for the tool to be implemented Whether the tool has been validated On that last point, Grossman says the buyer doesn’t want to be a beta tester for the AI tool. Professor Maura R. Grossman is a research professor in the School of Computer Science at the University of Waterloo, an adjunct professor at Osgoode Hall Law School of York University, and principal at Maura Grossman Law. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
When the Utah Supreme Court started studying the access to justice gap, justices and bar leaders were alarmed to learn that 93% of those using adult courts in the state’s largest jurisdiction were showing up without legal assistance. Let that sink in: 93% were coming to court without a lawyer. It’s a figure host Ralph Baxter’s guests say is common across North America. With news still fresh of Utah’s groundbreaking order creating a regulatory sandbox to address the crisis involving the delivery of legal services, Baxter discusses the order’s rationale and significance with three key leaders behind Utah’s move: Economics and Law Professor Gillian Hadfield, Utah Justice Deno Himonas, and Utah Bar immediate Past President John Lund. There’s something wrong when the current legal model serves just ten to fifteen percent of the population, Hadfield tells Baxter. She says Utah’s approach is on solid ground because the bench and bar are cooperating to collect data that will inform its shifting legal regulatory framework. The four discuss how the model rules of professional conduct, developed for an older and dated model of law practice, are less about ethics and more about controlling business operations. Utah’s sandbox removes many of those barriers while keeping consumers protected. Hadfield and Lund also note that despite pushback on rule changes -- such as relaxing rules on non-lawyer ownership and creating licensing routes for paraprofessionals -- the remaking of the rules is bound to increase opportunities for lawyers. Finding ways to better serve that 80% to 90% who need but don’t have lawyers will open up the market, they tell Baxter. Gillian Hadfield is the inaugural Schwartz Reisman Chair in Technology and Society at the University of Toronto Faculty of Law. Deno Himonas is a justice of the Utah Supreme Court. John Lund is a Salt Lake City lawyer and immediate past president of the Utah Bar. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Legal tech in the U.S. is pressing forward with data privacy playing catch up. In Europe, the trend is largely reversed. Host Dan Rodriguez and his guest, German lawyer and consultant Markus Hartung, talk through each approach’s pros and cons and address legal innovation’s status on both sides of the Atlantic. Hartung explains how, with good reason, Europeans are skeptical of embracing big data even with the promise of greater efficiency and modernization. At the same time, he says, there is too much confusion over the role of technology and the threat of technology. Notably, Hartung asserts that the impact of artificial intelligence is wholly overstated. “We look at software and AI in a completely irrational manner,” he says. German lawyer Markus Hartung is an advisor with the consultancy The Law Firm Companion. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
From early on, host Ralph Baxter knew co-founders Ian Nelson and Chris Wedgeworth were onto something when they developed a legal training model with proven educational techniques pioneered by Coursera, Khan Academy, and Duolingo. In this episode, Baxter talks to Nelson about the development of Hotshot and its practical uses by law schools and law firms. Since its early pilots more than eight years ago, Hotshot has developed a library of 200 topics in corporate practice and business acumen. Hotshot hires experienced lawyers to develop the substantive content for training and hires professional actors for the video presentations, which are generally delivered in short, easily digestible segments. Guest Sara Dana shares the perspective of Harvard Law, which gave early feedback about the product and has used Hotshot to provide students added learning resources since 2017. Morrison Foerster partner Rick Jenney shows how his firm has used Hotshot to train new lawyers and boost training resources for junior attorneys. Especially valuable is the ability to use the on-demand library to flip the classroom. Before a firm-led training, lawyers get video homework so everyone is on the same page. Jenney says this approach has improved in-firm training. Similarly, Dana notes that the students using Hotshot are familiar with video tutorials and have embraced the product because, like so much of what makes on-demand culture popular, “It’s really well done; it’s exactly what they need; they can access it when they need it.” Ian Nelson is co-founder of Hotshot. Sara Dana is the communication director for career services at Harvard Law School. Rick Jenney is a partner at Morrison and Foerster. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Even before the global pandemic, Michigan courts were moving more quickly than many others to modernize. Michigan Chief Justice Bridget Mary McCormack talks with host Dan Linna about accelerating the state’s plans to offer online hearings, online dispute resolution, and to continue efforts to establish e-filing statewide. Not everything is going smoothly, but McCormack notes some judges are almost current on their dockets. And importantly, she believes that many temporary quick fixes will lead to permanent changes that improve access to justice statewide and increase public trust in the judicial branch. Bridget Mary McCormack was named chief justice of the Michigan Supreme Court in January 2019. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Host Dan Rodriguez welcomes Jeff Kelly to discuss his experience with complex litigation and why he chose it as his professional focus. Jeff explains how his practice has been impacted by COVID-19 and what skills he’s refined and utilized to resolve problems arising from this pandemic. He also shares ways he leverages all 24 hours in his day in order to catch up to his more senior colleagues as well as finding and leveraging legal technology to improve his practice. Additionally, hear what it’s like for Jeff to be working as the chair of a law reform commission in North Carolina and what he’s been working on. Jeff Kelly is a complex litigation attorney at Shanahan Law Group, PLLC. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass.
Reinventing Law

Reinventing Law


Law Technology Now welcomes Gillian Hadfield to the show to talk with host Ralph Baxter about the idea of reinventing the law. She starts off by explaining how she became interested in changing the way law works through personal experience and then touches on access to our justice system and how it doesn’t give the ordinary person the legal resources they need. Gillian discusses how reinventing the law will necessitate thinking big, embracing diversity, and being responsive to feedback, not to mention the considerable financial investment needed to implement new solutions. She also explains why the legal industry lacks innovation and what we should do to help expand our knowledge. Gillian Hadfield is the inaugural Schwartz Reisman Chair in Technology and Society, Professor of Law, and Professor of Strategic Management. Special thanks to our sponsors, Logikcull and Acumass. Sources: Rules for a Flat World
What’s going on in the legal industry during COVID-19? Host Dan Rodriguez welcomes returning guest Mark Cohen of LegalMosaic to talk about the changes the pandemic has brought to the legal industry. They discuss how the traditionally tech-averse legal community has begun adopting new tools, such as Zoom, and how, for young lawyers and law students, learning business skills beyond the traditional scope of legal practice can be valuable. At the end of the episode, Mark speaks to the current cultural climate by driving home the importance of diversity and how legal professionals can contribute to making the community better through inclusion. Mark A. Cohen is the CEO of LegalMosaic, a legal business consulting company. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote, Logikcull and Acumass.
Tune into this episode with Dan Linna and Catherine Krow as they discuss her company Digitory Legal, a cost analytics platform that brings data-driven pricing and cost prediction to law, and also explains why data is important for litigators to understand. Catherine breaks down how to predict costs, review data correctly, and acquire it for her practice. She also explains what law firms should do to provide the best quality value and services to their clients. She also discusses how data is being used to evaluate and improve diversity and inclusion efforts. She ends by letting our listeners know where she believes data will go in the legal industry and how those new developments will impact law firms and their clients.   Catherine Krow is the founder of Digitory Legal.   Thanks to Acumass for sponsoring this episode.
In this Law Technology Now episode with host Ralph Baxter, Ralph welcomes Heidi Gardner to talk about her research into collaboration and her work furthering the concept of Smart Collaboration. Heidi defines the meaning of Smart Collaboration, and gives her thoughts on the impacts COVID-19 is having on collaboration throughout the industry. She also discusses her time at Harvard Law School, how she developed a passion for studying collaboration, and why she's devoted her career to improving how we work together. Heidi Gardner is the distinguished fellow & lecturer on law at Harvard Law School. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
Law Technology Now host Dan Linna welcomes Laura Nirider to the show to talk about her wrongful conviction work with a focus on social media. Laura discusses her work as Co-director at Northwestern’s ‘Center on Wrongful Convictions’, her regulator appearances on ‘Making a Murderer’ with Steven Drizin, and how vital it is to use social media to get more people discussing justice and the rule of law. They also talk about how law schools should train their students to use social media effectively in their practices Laura Nirider is a clinical assistant professor of law and co-director of the Center on Wrongful Convictions at Northwestern Pritzker School of Law in Chicago. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
How should law firms react during these turbulent times? Law Technology Now host Ralph Baxter sits down with Mitch Zuklie, CEO of Orrick, to discuss how attorneys can lead and manage their law firms during a pandemic. Mitch explains how it’s important to pay attention to how you respond internally as well as the impact your clients will face while delivering services to them that are relevant to the crisis. He suggests law firms should develop plans and be prepared for uncertain times, but not to overlook the opportunities these moments provide, like permitting your firm to accelerate client relations and prioritize innovation. Times like these are tough to deal with, but Mitch reminds listeners that when the market is back up, there will still be work for everyone. Mitch Zuklie is the chairman and CEO of Orrick. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
Margaret Hagan joins host Ralph Baxter in this episode of Law Technology Now to talk about what design is doing for the legal industry and what it is like being the lab director at the Stanford's Legal Design Lab. They discuss how Margaret got involved with the Stanford Law School's Center on the Legal Profession, her free online book ‘Law By Design’ and its uses cartoons, and how design can apply to legal professionals. She also talks about Stanford's Legal Design Lab, how it came to be, and the lab's mission. Margaret Hagan is the director of the Legal Design Lab and a lecturer at Stanford Institute of Design (the Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
Have you ever considered creating a legal technology application for your practice? Law Technology Now host Dan Linna sits down with Marc Lauritsen and Quinten Steenhuis to talk about evaluating legal tech applications and their article ‘Substantive Legal Software Quality: A Gathering Storm.’ They discuss what prompted them to write their article, how we can assess the quality of legal applications, and how to create a baseline by evaluating the work lawyers currently perform. Additionally, Marc and Quinten give our listeners tips on how we can get more people engaged in the conversation and provide best practices for lawyers to improve the apps they create. They end the episode by encouraging law schools to get their law students more engaged and exposed to the growing role of technology in legal work. Marc Lauritsen, president of Capstone Practice Systems, is a lawyer and educator with over twenty years of pioneering leadership in advanced legal software. Quinten Steenhuis is a senior housing attorney, systems administrator, and developer at Greater Boston Legal Services. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
On January 1, 2020, the California Consumer Privacy Act of 2018, informally known as the CCPA, went into effect. Considered one of the most significant pieces of privacy legislation in the United States, many questions exist as to how this law will affect businesses and consumers within California and beyond. Law Technology Now host Dan Rodriguez speaks with attorneys James Snyder and Timothy Blood about this impactful new legislative act. Together they examine the CCPAs origins, its reach beyond the boundaries of California, what it and Europe’s GDPR mean for technology companies, and what penalties can arise from violations. James Snyder is senior counsel with Klinedinst PC. Timothy Blood is the managing partner at Blood Hurst & O’Reardon LLP. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
As a leading tech company, Google has, through its services and products, well earned its reputation as an innovator. But how does that extend beyond tech and into its legal department. Ralph Baxter sits down with Mary O’Carroll, Google’s director of Legal Operations, to discuss her work with Google, the factors leading to more corporations bringing on legal operations positions, and, through her presidency at CLOC, how Mary and her peers are working to develop and define the legal operations role throughout the industry. Mary O’Carroll is the director of Legal Operations at Google and the president of the Corporate Legal Operations Consortium (“CLOC”). Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
On December 13, 2019, Fastcase and Ross Intelligence, two innovative and leading companies in the legal research space, announced a new partnership. By sharing their respective technology tools and data, these two companies are aiming to facilitate rapid innovation to better serve their customers. On his first episode as co-host of Law Technology Now, Dan Rodriguez sits down with Fastcase’s Ed Walters and Ross Intelligence’s Andrew Arruda to discuss what this new partnership means for their respective companies and customers, how technology will continue to give attorneys better access to the information they need, and how the innovations they are pursuing can increase access to justice. Ed Walters is CEO and co-founder of Fastcase. Andrew Arruda is chief executive officer and co-founder of ROSS Intelligence. Special thanks to our sponsors, Headnote and Logikcull.
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