Leading Questions

“GCHQ is an example for the rest of the public service… here is a case where civil servants have made technology sing.” In 1996 David Omand faced his first major leadership challenge: he had become the director of GCHQ and was charged with continuing the intelligence agency’s post-Cold War programme of technological transformation and reform. In this episode David discusses his experience of being “the young man sent from London to destroy the organisation”, the overlooked concept of followership and the importance of having a narrative. He also explores his time as permanent secretary of the Home Office, reflecting on why he put so much store by safe spaces, how a life-threatening diagnosis of Non-Hodgkin lymphoma changed his approach to work, and becoming the UK’s first Security and Intelligence Coordinator.

“The idea that in any sense I planned my career is completely wrong.” Lord Gus O’Donnell’s long career in the civil service started in 1979 in the Treasury and included stints as a diplomat in Washington, press secretary to prime minister John Major and Cabinet Secretary, head of the civil service and permanent secretary of the Cabinet Office under three prime ministers – Tony Blair, Gordon Brown and David Cameron. In this episode he discusses what it was like to work with four very different leaders, at very different points in their premierships, and with very different styles. He also reflects on his own leadership development, how he remained calm in a crisis and why he regrets feeling irreplaceable. There are plenty of insights on the civil service too – with comparisons between the private sector, his drive to instil pride and why he always told people that if they want to get on, they should get out, get different experiences... and then come back.

“The worst piece of leadership advice I got was: ‘be an authentic leader.’” Of course be true to yourself and your values, says Ciaran Martin CB, professor of practice in the management of public organisations at the University of Oxford’s Blavatnik School of Government. “The bit I interpreted wrongly, which made it the worst piece of advice, was to just act yourself at work,” he adds. In this episode, Ciaran reflects on his long civil service career including stints at the Cabinet Office, GCHQ and latterly as the founding chief executive of the National Cyber Security Centre. He considers the switch from central government into the intelligence agency; why “monolithic” leadership dictats from Whitehall were useless when working with technical specialists; the experience of publicly fronting the 2017 WannaCry ransomware attack; and whether Northcote-Trevelyan still holds.

“I have used the term over the years of ‘having running away money’. That doesn’t mean having a stash of savings, but it does mean all the time thinking to yourself, ‘If this job doesn’t work, if I can’t stand this a moment longer… what would I do?’” Dame Helen Ghosh enjoyed a long career in the civil service, becoming permanent secretary of the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs in 2004 and then the Home Office in 2011. She then led the National Trust before becoming master of Balliol College, Oxford in 2018. In this episode Helen discusses the importance of embedding in and understanding what different organisations expect from a leader, drawing on her extensive experience of taking the helm in very different environments. She also considers the role of the civil service in serving the government of the day, and shares insights into her own hinterland and where she draws resilience from, as well as female leadership, dealing with public scrutiny and being open to the fact you may have made a mistake. If you would like to suggest an interviewee for the show, or tell us what you think, you can get in touch by emailing ggfeditor@gmail.com. If you are enjoying the show, we would really appreciate it if you could share it widely and give us a rating. Your host was Siobhan Benita. Kate Hodge edited the episode, and it was produced by James Ede.

“On the one hand, the cabinet minister has to understand that nature of the civil service role and the role of the permanent secretary as a leader alongside you… “But I think the permanent secretary also has to respect that the cabinet minister is not necessarily someone to be shaped in content or style to the previous way of doing things.” In this special episode, Sir David Bell and Ed Balls explore the minister-permanent secretary relationship. The two joined forces in 2007 at what was the Department for Children, Schools and Families – David as permanent secretary and Ed as secretary of state. They discuss first impressions and how they built a coherent team and vision together based on chemistry, trust, and openness, with plenty of fun thrown in there too. But it wasn’t all plain sailing. The department faced a series of crises including SATs results, payments of Educational Maintenance Grants and the tragedy of Baby P. Both Ed and David talk about how they worked together in a crisis, and personally managed the pressure. If you would like to suggest an interviewee for the show, or tell us what you think, you can get in touch by emailing ggfeditor@gmail.com. If you are enjoying the show, we would really appreciate it if you could share it widely and give us a rating. Your host was Siobhan Benita. Kate Hodge edited the episode, and it was produced by James Ede.

“Did I feel equipped to become a permanent secretary? I thought I was, but I was very quickly disabused of the notion.” In this episode Sir Peter Housden reflects candidly on his first permanent secretary role at the Office of the Deputy Prime Minister. He talks about how he prepared in all the wrong ways, what he learned from the experience and the coping strategies that kept him going. In 2010 he put his lessons into practice when he moved to become the permanent secretary of Scotland. Here he explores how different the environment was, trust between civil service and ministers, public service reform, the Scottish Independence referendum and how good habits can save you. If you would like to suggest an interviewee for the show, or tell us what you think, you can get in touch by emailing ggfeditor@gmail.com. If you are enjoying the show, we would really appreciate it if you could share it widely and give us a rating. Your host was Siobhan Benita. Kate Hodge edited the episode, and it was produced by James Ede.

On this episode of Leading Questions LIVE, Siobhan Benita speaks to Dominic Rochon, chief information officer for Canada. They discuss Dominic’s broad mandate, which includes service delivery, security and privacy, as well as his current priorities such as improving digital services, enhancing cybersecurity, and modernising legacy systems. Dominic touches upon Canada’s past technological failures and controversies, and stresses the role of collaboration, both within government and with provincial governments and the private sector, to bring public services into a new era of human-centred service design. The conversation also covers how to professionalise the digital workforce and implement more agile procurement practices to keep pace with technological advancements. “In the financial world…chief financial officers have to get certifications and have to keep those certifications up to date,” Rochon said. “In the federal government, that is not the case for the digital world. I'd like to explore how we get to that, particularly given how fast technology is evolving.” He highlights how such an approach is particularly needed if government is to make the most of artificial intelligence, for example. This episode also previews AccelerateGOV, Global Government Forum’s annual conference held in Ottawa, where digital leaders from around the world gather to discuss how governments can overcome challenges to realise the opportunities of digital transformation. Listen to the podcast in full to hear about how Dominic is leading the way to making digital transformation happen. Public servants can register free to attend  AccelerateGOV,  taking place at the Shaw Centre on 21 October.

In this episode of Leading Question, recorded with a live online audience, a panel of Global Government Forum experts delve into the findings of its research into the key characteristics needed for a modern public service. The Making Government Work report identifies five key pillars of a modern civil service, which are: ·       Strong leadership with mutual respect and alignment between ministers and senior officials ·       Building a highly skilled, inclusive and thriving public sector workforce. ·       Fostering an agile, digital, and risk-taking culture focused on delivery. ·       Implementing working structures that transcend organisational silos. ·       Cultivating a service trusted by its users and the public. The report is the culmination of interviews with 12 senior civil service leaders from around the world, and comes in response to requests from leaders at Global Government Forum’s annual Global Government Summit for a comprehensive “blueprint” for government that could consolidate and expand key knowledge shared over the past decade. In the conversation, report authors Richard Johnstone, Siobhan Benita and Lord Gus O’Donnell discuss the elements of each of these pillars, setting out the findings from this unique research. Listen now for an unprecedented primer on the key issues that governments around the world are facing. For civil servants looking to understand how to cultivate a service trusted by individual users and the public at large, this discussion is essential listening. Read our Making Government Work report here. Thank you to the leaders who took part in this study: ·       Glyn Davis, secretary of the Department of the Prime Minister and Cabinet, Australia ·       Donna Cadogan, head, public service, Barbados ·       John Hannaford, clerk of the Privy Council and secretary to the Cabinet, Canada ·       Taimar Peterkop, state secretary, Estonia ·       Henrik Haapajärvi, former state secretary to the prime minister, Finland ·       Claire Landais, secretary general of the government, France ·       Haryomo Dwi Putranto, acting chair, Indonesian National Civil Service Agency, Indonesia ·       John Callinan, secretary general of Department of Taoiseach and Government, Ireland ·       Folasade Yemi-Esan, head of the civil service of the Federation, Nigeria (retired 14 August) ·       Leo Yip, head of civil service and permanent secretary (Prime Minister’s Office), Singapore ·       Simon Case, cabinet secretary and head of the civil service, United Kingdom ·       Dustin Brown, deputy assistant director for Management, Office of Management and Budget, Executive Office of the President, United States (at time of interview).

In this special edition of Global Government Forum’s Leading Questions podcast, which is based on a GGF webinar held in September, we look at the key issues in the upcoming United States presidential election. Join Siobhan Benita as she discuss the key issues of the campaign with Dr Thomas Gift, the associate professor of political science and director of the Centre on US Politics (CUSP) at UCL, and Kevin R. Kosar, a resident senior fellow at the American Enterprise Institute. Listen to this podcast to find out: The key issues shaping the campaign. The policy priorities being set out by the parties. The early actions that the next president will likely take.

In a new episode of Leading Questions, Richard Johnstone, the executive editor of Global Government Forum, interviews Dr Dan Honig, professor of public policy at University College London and Georgetown University, about his new book, Mission Driven Bureaucrats. Subtitled Empowering People To Help Government Do Better, Honig’s book explores how civil servants can be empowered to drive better government performance. Honig argues that many public sector organisations are too focused on compliance – what he describes as an attempt to keep those who might want to do ill from doing it. Such an approach wears down public servants, leaving those who are driven to make a difference frustrated by the obstacles and compliance rules they face. This highly topical interview comes as the new UK government aims to focus on five key missions. Honig provides insight on how to realise progress on what he calls these grand missions, as well as using missions as a means to clearly state public service purposes – be that fighting fires, providing care or being the best internal auditor. Honig says that empowering civil servants is vital to achieving all these missions, giving civil servants both autonomy and support as a team to deliver. Listen in full to hear about how to make mission delivery happen in government – from strategies to drive change like implementing ‘green tape rules’ to the role of leadership. And if you have questions about how to make mission-driven change happen in government, please contact richard.johnstone@globalgovernmentforum.com – and we will ask Dan for his tips on adopting a mission approach in government. Mentioned in this conversation: Find out more about Dan’s book: Mission Driven Bureaucrats: Empowering People To Help Government Do Better Making Government Work: Exclusive Global Government Forum research reveals five pillars of a modern civil service History has been made, paving the way for major public service reform in South Africa

Welcome to this special edition of Leading Questions in which we look at the key issues in the UK general election and how civil servants will be working to get ready for the next government. The general election will be held on 4 July, with parties setting out their vision for the future of the country. That means that right now, civil servants are working on ‘day one’ documents for new ministers who will be appointed after votes are cast. These briefings will highlight the key issues that the next government will have to deal with, and set out the path to implement key policies. Richard Johnstone, the executive editor of Global Government Forum, Leading Questions podcast host Siobhan Benita and the former Director General, Government Digital Service Kevin Cunnington, discuss the policy battleground in this election; the issues the next prime minister will inherit – whoever they are – and what will be happening in Whitehall right now as officials observe the campaign. As this is a very topical conversation, recorded earlier this week, and we wanted to share this with you on this feed – we hope you enjoy.

In this, the last episode of Leading Questions series 3, Andy Haldane talks about thriving on leading through crisis and the challenges and opportunities “when the old is broken and the new is yet to be forged”. Having spent 32 years at the Bank of England, latterly as chief economist, headed up the UK government’s Levelling Up taskforce, founded the charity Pro Bono Economics, and spent the last two years as chief executive of the Royal Society of Arts, Andy has a range of roles and experiences to draw on. Yet though he has been very honest publicly about his organisations’ successes and failures over the years, he hasn’t divulged much about his own leadership style and motivations – until now. The man once named amongst the world’s 100 most influential people by Time magazine has seen his fair share of crises – not least, during his time at the Bank of England, the global financial crisis of 2008, the European debt crisis, Black Wednesday, and the COVID-19 pandemic. “Looking back over those 32 years, it was hallmarked or perhaps pockmarked by crises. They always come along, don’t they? But we seem to have had a particularly virulent sequence over the last 15 years plus,” he says. It is fortunate, then, that Andy is energised by the opportunity to drive big, system-wide change. Motivated by his belief that the most effective and durable way of making change is to engage as broad a base of stakeholders as possible, Andy describes the importance of listening to those not often given a voice. Indeed, speaking to people for whom the economy was not working proved to be “one of the most valuable sources of intelligence I could have had”. He also speaks of his tendency to be publicly honest about the things that have gone wrong and to suggest ideas radically different from the status quo; his concern that civil servants do not have “a long enough window of relative tranquillity to build their sea defences against whatever the next tsunami might be”; and of the importance of having an “optimistic, non-fatalistic mindset”. This fascinating episode is a window into the motivations of a man in the business of “establishing next practice rather than best practice thinking”, of considering what’s around the corner, and of “instilling a sense of belief about what’s possible”. 0d8737a45eaeb3468a46f541530bfd49d0d4f859

Estonia’s most senior civil servant, secretary of state Taimar Peterkop, shares his insights into leading through crises.   From dealing with a vulnerability in the country’s digital ID system – which involved updating thousands of digital services – to the country’s response to the COVID pandemic and Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, this is an episode packed with lessons on what to do when government is faced with emergency.   Taimar’s main learning from the digital ID crisis was the importance of building relationships with the private sector, academia and civil society – so that they can be called upon when the government lacks the internal capabilities to deal with crises on its own.   “You need all the different players in these situations to talk the same talk and to have the same message: ‘This is the problem, this is the solution, and don't worry’,” Taimar says.   Through clear and consistent communication with citizens, the Information System Authority, which led the work to secure the IDs and which Taimar headed up at the time, managed not only to retain trust in the digital ID system but to actually increase it. Indeed, following the incident, use of the cards actually began to rise.   When COVID hit, by which time Taimar had been appointed secretary of state, he took the lessons from that crisis and applied it to his leadership through the pandemic, not least in looking after the wellbeing of public servants, many of whom were having to work 16-hour days. He brought in mental health advisers and gave officials who had done exceptionally well gifts to boost morale.  Also describing his part in moving management of the pandemic response from the health department to the prime minister’s office and establishing a COVID taskforce; Estonia’s readiness for Russia’s invasion of Ukraine; his background as a lawyer and technologist; and why he has decided to work for two years in his second term rather than the usual five, this is a not-to-miss episode for any public servant interested in how government can prepare in the era of permacrisis.  

In this episode of Leading Questions Dame Una O’Brien, who was permanent secretary of the UK Department of Health between 2010 and 2016, joins podcast host Siobhan Benita for a chat about her unconventional route into the civil service, and what she learned along the way. Having been appointed health department permanent secretary just as a coalition government was formed, and responsible for implementing sweeping and controversial healthcare reforms, Una was right in the thick of it – being scrutinised before a parliamentary committee no less than 28 times.   It was a “bumpy” ride, she admits, but one she was absolutely ready for – not least because a breadth of experience acquired outside the civil service in her 20s stood her in good stead for the challenges to come. The daughter of Irish immigrants who were “firm believers in giving back”, with a love of history and having received teaching on the British Constitution, Una decided to pursue a career in either politics or the civil service. She soon realised she wasn’t cut out for the misogynistic political environment in the UK at the time – “I wasn’t prepared to fight that fight”, she says, acknowledging that other women had “much more moral courage than I did”. So, when viral meningitis struck leading to months in hospital, Una re-evaluated her career path, and after 10 years in politics and parliamentary and academic research, moved into the health sector and later the civil service Fast Stream, landing first in the Department of Health. Though she went on spend time at the Cabinet Office and transport department, she always returned to health. As she describes, the experience prior to joining the civil service that had “the most profound effect on me” in the decades afterwards, was the three years she spent working to set up a hospice and care centre for people with AIDS and HIV “right in the white heat of the controversy about that disease, as it started to really hit communities in London in the late 1980s”. She saw first-hand the people who were on the receiving end of poor care and discrimination and who felt excluded from public services – something that “gave health a centrepiece in my inner world” and spurred her on in subsequent work. She shares the part she played in the Bristol/Kennedy Inquiry into the deaths of babies after heart surgery at the Bristol Royal Infirmary and an inquiry into poor care at a hospital in Staffordshire. The latter led her to the “deeply hurtful” realisation that her department’s responses to letters from patients’ families lacked empathy and that troubling patterns of substandard care had been missed – leading to reform of the department’s handling of letters from the public. Having risen up the ranks – Una spent time as the health department’s director general of policy and strategy – she was appointed permanent secretary exactly 20 years to the day since she joined the civil service. She describes vividly the vision she had while waiting to go into the interview room of all the women who had supported her in the past standing behind her, willing her to succeed, and thinking “I can’t let you down”. Also touching on her current work as a career and leadership coach, insights into working with ministers, and the skills needed in this new world of hybrid work, this is an episode packed with personal reflections from a leader whose motivations never wavered.

Podcast host Siobhan Benita speaks know-how and knock-backs with the deputy director of learning at Spain’s National Institute of Public Administration.   Israel Pastor has more than 20 years’ experience as a senior manager in the Spanish state administration – including stints in the health, environment, finance and justice departments – affording him a broad perspective on leadership and what it takes to make the organisation you’re in charge of better.     Having studied hard to get through a rigorous selection process whereby people with no prior professional experience can become an executive member of the civil service – entering at grade 26 of 30 – Israel found himself leading a team in an unfamiliar organisation whilst still in his 20s.      He advises others who find themselves faced with such a baptism of fire, to “find your references, your mirrors and your mentors” and to have the humility to learn from less senior colleagues.   Entering any new high-ranking position requires vision, the ability to connect disparate projects and programmes, and the resources “in your backpack” to make improvements, he says. And as listeners will find out, it is these capabilities, along with a focus on shining a spotlight on the work of his teams and being attentive to colleagues’ needs, that epitomise his leadership style.   Also describing his current work leading the civil service’s learning and development programme, Israel shares his view on what leaders’ greatest challenge will be in the coming years and how to overcome it, and touches on much more besides: on frank discussions with political bosses; pushing back against the stereotype of the lazy civil servant; overcoming stress; the importance of institutional communication; and remaining faithful to your public service calling.   Don’t miss this episode featuring a man who has been determined from a young age to be the best public servant he could be.