Learning and Teaching Systemic Therapy

Today, I welcome Catherine Falco to discuss eco-relational and ecologically systemic practice, with particular attention to how educators and supervisors can prepare therapists to think beyond the individual and toward wider relational, environmental, and cultural systems. Catherine Falco: Cath is a psychologist and clinical family therapist. She has a Masters in Mental Health specialising in Family therapy and she is currently completing a research PhD at The University of Sydney where she is investigating ecological emotions and systems thinking with a focus on grassroots groups and community-based practices. She lives in northern New South Wales on Bundjalung Country where she and her family tend 12 acres of Eucalypt Forest nestled in the biodiverse bowl of the Tweed Caldera. Reach out to Cath here: [email protected] @caldera_psychology   Resources discussed:  Falco, C. (2022), Integrative Practice for the Beginning Family Therapist: Bringing it Back to Basics. Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy, 43, 70-79. https://doi.org/10.1002/anzf.1484  Falco, C., Rhodes, P. and Dunk, J. (2025), Embracing Our More-Than-Human Family: Growing a Systemic Practice for Planetary Health and Multispecies Justice. Aust N Z J Fam Ther, 46: e70007. https://doi.org/10.1002/anzf.70007 Graham, M. 2023. “The Law of Obligation, Aboriginal Ethics: Australia Becoming, Australia Dreaming.” Parrhesia: A Journal of Critical Philosophy 37: 1–21. https://parrhesiajournal.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/the-law-of-obligation-aboriginal-ethics-australia-becoming-australia-dreaming_mary-graham.pdf   Kimmerer, R. W. (2013). Braiding sweetgrass: Indigenous wisdom, scientific knowledge and the teachings of plants. Milkweed Editions. Purchase here (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/4beRhEr  Kimmerer, R. W. (2024). The serviceberry: Abundance and reciprocity in the natural world. Scribner. Purchase here (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/447xh2M  McGoldrick, M., Garcia Preto, N., & Carter, B. A. (2016). The expanding family life cycle: Individual, family, and social perspectives (5th ed.). Pearson. Purchase here (affiliate link): https://amzn.to/4wi2uMF  Moore, R. & Cove, J. (2024) Reconnecting systemic family therapy: How family therapy training can attend to the ecosystem and climate emergency, recommendations from a Delphi survey. Journal of Family Therapy, 46, 281–305. Available from: https://doi.org/10.1111/1467-6427.12461 Palmer, H., & Fortina Santin, C. (Eds.). (2025, December). Ecotherapy, environment, dystopian futures. Context, 202. Association for Family and Systemic Psychotherapy.   Questions we discussed in today's episode:  When introducing eco-relational practice to systemic therapists in training, what shifts do you think us educators need to make so students can move beyond an anthropocentric view of therapy and truly think systemically about humans in relationship with the living world? How can we teach therapists to recognize and respond to ecological emotions, such as climate grief, ecological anxiety, and disaster-related distress, without treating them only as individual symptoms disconnected from broader relational and environmental systems? For those teaching systemic therapy, what does it look like in practice to bring ecologically systemic ideas into supervision and classroom conversations, even when the training is not specifically focused on outdoor or nature-based therapy? You mentioned the importance of Indigenous and First Peoples worldviews when discussing relationship with Place. How can educators responsibly bring these perspectives into therapist training in ways that are respectful and not tokenistic? What invitations would you offer to supervisors and educators who want to help trainees develop a climate-informed perspective, especially in relation to their own senses, their relationship with place, and their awareness of larger systems such as colonization, patriarchy, and ecological disruption?  

Purchase the online handbook of online systemic therapy, supervision and training here: https://link.springer.com/book/10.1007/978-3-031-92225-1 Today’s conversation focuses on the Handbook of Online Systemic Therapy, Supervision, and Training: Practice and Research, and on the evolving possibilities and challenges of systemic work in digital spaces. I’m delighted to be in conversation with the editors, Valeria Pomini and Maria Borcsa, whose volume brings together contemporary thinking on online systemic therapy, supervision, and training across a range of clinical and educational contexts. Maria Borcsa, PhD, is Professor of Clinical Psychology at the University of Applied Sciences in Nordhausen (UASN), Germany, licensed psychological psychotherapist (CBT), family therapist, trainer and supervisor. She is founding member of the Institute of Social Medicine, Health Care Research and Rehabilitation Sciences at UASN, co-editor of the scientific journals “Systeme” (2001-2014), “Psychotherapie im Dialog” (2007-2019), member of the Editorial Board of  the journals "Testing, Psychometrics, Methodology in Applied Psychology", “Contemporary Family Therapy”, advisory editor of “Family Process”, associate editor of “Encyclopedia of Couple and Family Therapy”, and founding editor of the EFTA Family Therapy Book Series. She has been board member of the Systemic Society (Systemische Gesellschaft), German Association for Systemic Research, Therapy, Supervision and Counseling (2005-2011); board member of the European Family Therapy Association (EFTA) (2007-2016), Chair of the Chamber of National Family Therapy Organizations of EFTA (2010-2013), and President of EFTA (2013-2016). Her research interests focus on qualitative methods in mental health and on globalized families. In 2019, she received an award from the European Family Therapy Association for her excellence in the research field of family therapy and systemic practice. Email Maria here: [email protected]  Valeria Pomini, PhD Valeria Pomini, PhD, is a Clinical Psychologist and Psychotherapist, trained in systemic family and couple psychotherapy at the Milan School of Family Therapy in the 80s. She lives and works in Greece, where she co-founded the Family Therapy Unit (1988) and of which was Scientific Coordinator  (2009-2023) at the First Department of Psychiatry, National & Kapodistrian University of Athens. She is also the co-founder and co-director of the 4-year Training Course in Systemic Family and Couple Therapy (member of EFTA-TIC), established in 1992 at the University Mental Health, Neurosciences and Medical Precision Research Institute “Costas Stefanis” (UMHRI) in Athens. She has a wide experience as supervisor in public mental health institutions, since the last thirty years. Her research and clinical interests focus on the intersectionality of mental health problems and family relationships, with a special interest in early psychosis, substance abuse and other severe youth psychological disorders, couple therapy, and digital practices in mental health. She is member of the editorial committee of the Journal of Systemic Thinking & Psychotherapy and the Journal of Psychosocial Systems. She is founder member, board member and past-president (2004-2010) of the Hellenic Systemic Thinking and Family Therapy Association – HESTAFTA and co-chair of the Psychotherapy Committee of the Hellenic Psychological Association ELPSE. Email Valeria here: [email protected]  Questions we discussed in this episode:  Your work on this book started before COVID. What were the biggest shifts you observed in systemic practice from the pre-COVID period to the post-COVID period, and what did the research outcomes suggest about those shifts? Overview of the book chapters/ contents/etc The book is positioned for family therapists across Europe and beyond. What patterns did you notice in how MFTs use systemic therapy across different European contexts, and what do you most want readers outside Europe to understand about those differences? (e.g., Geographical differences) You’ve noted changes in therapeutic relationships with teletherapy. In your view, what has fundamentally changed in the therapeutic relationship in systemic telehealth (e.g., alliance, engagement, power, privacy, family dynamics), and what has remained surprisingly stable? You structured the book to address multiple levels: therapy, supervision, and training. What are the main topics in these three levels? The book contents appear to move from theoretical concepts to competencies and then clinical practice. Several chapters get very concrete about what happens “in the room” online (e.g., therapeutic alliance, “joining” in the virtual office, “the virtual third,” and specific tools such as online games, metaphoric tools, and working with images). How would the book be useful for a post-graduate training program?

In today’s episode, we discuss the book Queer-Contextualized Family Therapy: Toward Radically Inclusive Theory and Practice, and I’m joined by the book’s editors, Dr. Erica Hartwell and Dr. Lindsay Edwards.  Dr. Erica Hartwell is an Associate Professor of Marriage, Couple, and Family Therapy in the Lewis and Clark Graduate School of Education and Counseling. Her teaching, supervision, and scholarship is focused on creating community, compassion, and justice, with a focus on queer and trans mental health and well-being. In 2023, she received Fairfield University’s highest faculty honor, the Robert E. Wall award, in recognition of her forthcoming book, Queer-Contextualized Family Therapy: Toward Radical Theory and Practice. She served as the first chair of AAMFT’s Queer and Trans Advocacy Network and led the development of the Clinical Guidelines for LGBTQIA Affirming Marriage and Family Therapy. As an AAMFT Board Member, she worked on the Gender-Affirming Care Position Statement.  Dr. Edwards is a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist and an AAMFT Approved Supervisor. She dedicated 11 years to academia, serving as faculty within several accredited couple and family therapy programs. During this time, she conducted research, published articles, and provided didactic instruction and clinical supervision to MFTs in training. Currently, Dr. Edwards serves as a manager for Colorado's Behavioral Health Administration, overseeing the Children and Youth Mental Health Treatment Act and other critical mental health initiatives. Beyond her administrative role, she specializes in LGBTQ+ inclusive family therapy and remains deeply committed to the field by providing private practice supervision and supervision mentorship.   Dr. Lindsay Edwards can be contacted through her website:  https://www.drlindsayedwards.com/ Questions we discussed in this episode:  You frame queer-contextualizing as a beginning framework, not “the answer,” but a question for the field. Share with us what this framework looks like. What are some questions you want clinicians, supervisors, and educators to keep asking as they apply this framework to any model (including models that may not be covered in the book)? A key thread you wanted to highlight in this text is that it is not only about queerness, but about reenvisioning how our foundational models could be reimagined to tend to any marginalized identity/positioning. When a clinician is working in a country or cultural context with a different dominant discourse, what are some “dominant assumptions” you recommend they identify and unpack? The table of contents applies queer-contextualizing to multiple foundational approaches (Structural, Strategic, Satir, EFT, Bowen, Contextual, Gottman, SFBT, Collaborative). Please share with us an example of how a queer-contextualizing framework changes case conceptualization and intervention planning from a Bowenian approach? Please share with us an example of how a queer-contextualizing framework changes case conceptualization and intervention planning from a Satir approach? Your editorial process itself sounds aligned with the book’s values: It started with an open call, intensive 1:1 work with authors, and inviting contributors to “say the wild thing” outside typical academic constraints. What did you learn from editing this way, and how do you hope it influences how we write, teach, and evaluate scholarship in our training programs? Purchase the book here: https://www.routledge.com/Queer-Contextualized-Family-Therapy-Toward-Radically-Inclusive-Theory-and-Practice/Hartwell-Edwards/p/book/9781032311265

Dr Leonie White is a Clinical Family Therapist and Psychologist with almost 30 years’ experience.  She works in private practice and as the Director of Phoenix Family Therapy Academy.  Leonie has spent more than a decade in AAFT-accredited family therapy training programs and has taught, trained, and supervised across multiple university programs.  She brings a practical, integrative, and attachment and neuroscience-informed systemic lens to support both emerging and experienced practitioners with teaching that reflects a deep commitment to adult learning and experiential approaches. Leonie offers a broad range of professional development initiatives across Australia and New Zealand, including foundational, advanced, trauma-informed, and systemic family therapy workshops. She also provides individual and group supervision, mentorship, and consultancy to mental health, education, and child protection professionals. Leonie has presented at national and international conferences, including keynote addresses.  She has contributed to the field through academic publications, as Guest Editor for a special issue of the Australian and New Zealand Journal of Family Therapy (ANZJFT) on integrative practice, and she is currently working on a special issue of the ANZJFT on teaching family therapy in Australia. Find out more about Leonie and connect: www.drleoniewhite.com LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-leonie-white-9a915489/ Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/drleoniewhite Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/drleoniewhite YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/@drleoniewhite4202   Find out more about Phoenix Family Therapy Academy here www.phoenixftacademy.com https://www.youtube.com/@PhoenixFamilyTherapyAcadem-s9y https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566716197513 Questions we discussed in this episode: In your training courses and certificate programs, you center a multi-positioned, integrative stance in systemic practice. Could you walk us through your approach and what teaching methods you use to train clinicians in it? You offer industry-specific trauma-informed trainings, such as for maternity services, emergency departments and schools. What adjustments to language, pacing, and alliance building have proven most critical when translating systemic and trauma-informed principles into these specific contexts? You have developed practical tools such as the Helping Families Thrive cards and strength cards. What design principles guided these resources, and how do you integrate them within sessions to shift talk from problems to resources without bypassing risk or trauma cues? Other resources discussed by Dr. White: ANZJFT special issue on Integrative Practice - free to read https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/toc/14678438/2022/43/1   Glenn Larner's articles are available freely on ResearchGate https://www.researchgate.net/publication/247831055_Integrative_Family_Therapy_With_Childhood_Chronic_Illness_An_Ethics_of_Practice   Roger Lowe's book on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Roger-D.-Lowe/author/B001KHDCMA?ref=sr_ntt_srch_lnk_1&qid=1763684043&sr=1-1&isDramIntegrated=true&shoppingPortalEnabled=true&ccs_id=de2aa50e-09dc-4535-a59b-a131241ea959  

Today on the podcast, we have Dr. Adam Jones from Texas Woman's University and his amazing Master's student, Madeline Schock. Questions about the FSIS Rating Scale that we discussed today: You helped develop the Facilitative Systemic Intervention Skills measure. Can you help us understand a little bit about why you developed the measure and what it is? How you measure these systemic therapy skills? Can we briefly list the skills and discuss them?  The FSIS captures 8 distinct dimensions of systemic intervention skills. Can you walk us through how you identified these specific eight dimensions? How did you determine that effective family therapists were demonstrating these particular skills? Are the skills intended to be viewed as a sequence, like a step-by-step guide to responding? Your research suggests we can now measure and predict therapeutic effectiveness with specific behavioral indicators. How does this evidence-based approach challenge or support traditional MFT training methods? Are there traditions in our field - like live supervision or family-of-origin work - that you think we should reconsider? You are training students to rate  therapist responses  and use the FSIS measures. Madeline, what is this training like? What has been your experience in working on this research while you’re also developing as a therapist? Have you noticed the research informing what you do in the therapy room? How is your FSIS research changing how you teach family therapy techniques? Talk to me about your collaborations with other universities to implement their own FSIS projects and research studies. How would faculty begin using this?  Looking ahead, how do you envision the FSIS and similar research tools transforming MFT education? Interested in learning more about FSIS and getting trained to use it? Check out this linktree for more information: https://linktr.ee/fsis8  Dr. Adam Jones bio: Adam Jones, PhD LMFT-Associate is an assistant professor of Family Therapy at Texas Woman’s University. He enjoys working with students at TWU in research, teaching, and clinical training. His research looks at therapist skill development. He is a co-developer of the  Facilitative Systemic Intervention Skills measure with Dr. Myrna Friedlander. He directs an awesome team of raters who rate therapist responses to challenging vignettes. He has a small private practice and provides therapy services at the TWU Stroke Center in Dallas Texas. He also likes to play the piano and the guitar, though he isn’t particularly good at either of them. He can be reached via email: [email protected] Madeline Schock bio: Madeline is a master’s student at Texas Woman's University, pursuing a degree in marriage and family therapy. During her time at TWU, she has completed clinical hours at the local school district’s Family Center, worked as a research assistant for two professors, and served as vice president of the Student Association of Marriage and Family Therapy. Her primary therapeutic approach is narrative therapy. She is particularly interested in working with neurodivergent children and adolescents, as well as families experiencing or adjusting to divorce. Her work with the FSIS task has significantly shaped her clinical development, and she hopes to continue growing as a therapist as she prepares for licensure and begins seeing clients as an LMFT-Associate. She can be reached via email: [email protected]