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Left, Right & Center

Author: KCRW

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Left, Right & Center is KCRW’s weekly civilized yet provocative confrontation over politics, policy and pop culture.
73 Episodes
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What do we do now?

What do we do now?

2020-07-3153:473

The US economy shrank at a record pace in the second quarter, contracting nearly ten percent. In the real world, that means tens of millions of Americans lost jobs and so many businesses were closed. We knew it wasn’t going to be good, but what’s worse is the recovery we were seeing in the late spring appears to have stalled. On top of that Congress isn’t even close to a solution for the expiring enhanced unemployment benefits that so many Americans are relying on through this crisis. So we wait. On today’s show Josh Barro, Dorian Warren, Megan McArdle and special guest Shai Akabas of the Bipartisan Policy Center talk about the state of the next relief package — is it a stimulus or not? — and the big missing piece of coronavirus economic policy: actually beating the virus. Then: pro sports are back, sort of. Pablo Torre of ESPN talks about the strategies that are working and what’s definitely not working as leagues resume or begin their seasons in our new reality.
Those enhanced unemployment benefits that have kept many American households afloat through the pandemic? They’re about to run out, and Congress is just now getting around to doing something about it. In the first week of negotiation, Republicans and Democrats are still far apart on another coronavirus relief package. Congress has played a game of brinkmanship with government shutdowns, but during a pandemic with millions of Americans out of work, it’s a different situation. Christine Emba says Americans don’t have the patience for this game when it affects the livelihoods of so many. Megan McArdle says Congress must envision a post-pandemic economy as it considers the appropriate relief efforts now. What else is Congress fighting over in the next bill, and how do we contend with the fact that many Americans won’t get much relief until many weeks or months from now? In Portland, federal agents are throwing protesters into unmarked vehicles. Why? Is there any proper role for the federal government in responding to unrest in cities? Geoff Ingersoll joins the panel to discuss that and if this helps or hurts President Trump with voters. Also, what does New York Governor Andrew Cuomo have against Buffalo wings? He does know they were invented in his state, right?
American made

American made

2020-07-1751:193

The economic recovery appears to be stalling as the coronavirus epidemic intensifies across the south and southwest. How did we get here? What are the policy failures that allow uncontrolled spread to resume? Why is there such a big testing backlog? And where do we go from here? Dr. Kavita Patel joins the panel to discuss. Throughout his presidency, Donald Trump has enjoyed higher public approval on his handling of the economy than on his overall job. Joe Biden released an economic plan last week that aims to dent the president’s advantage, in part by co-opting some of his themes about promoting manufacturing in the United States. He wants an expansive “buy American” program, big public spending on research and development to rely less on international supply chains, and a major public spending plan for the climate and environment. Does this mean that both Right and Left are ready to abandon neoliberal ideals of globalism? And is there a tradeoff between raising labor standards in the United States and raising labor standards in other countries? Biden’s climate action plan is a very progressive proposal — his moderate image might be helping him put forward very left proposals, but would that help him with actual policy making if he is president? Finally, Dorian Warren argues the time is right for a third Reconstruction, a deep structural transformation of institutions in the United States to remedy inequities.
Lagging behind

Lagging behind

2020-07-1151:224

The coronavirus pandemic crisis is stretching on and the United States is in dire straits. Infections are surging in the south and west and there's doubt about whether schools can open safely for the new school year. Megan McArdle says the lags of this disease are contributing to serious policy disasters and many states are falling victim to normalcy bias, where, if it doesn't look like chaos, it's harder to persuade people and public officials to take appropriate action to prevent the situation from deteriorating. Dorian Warren says it is ultimately shameful that the United States is failing at virus mitigation. Then, Helen Alvare joins the panel to talk about the Supreme Court's final decisions. Was this term a major disappointment for conservatives? Chief Justice John Roberts promised to call balls and strikes, but might he be working towards a more long-sighted goal? Finally: Mexico's president visited President Trump in Washington this week, and Jose Diaz Briseno of Reforma talks about the state of their relationship. Is it correct to call President Andres Manuel Lopez Obrador a leftist? And is he, like many other world leaders, doing his best just to appease and not influence President Trump?
Will it change us?

Will it change us?

2020-07-0355:036

Halfway through an extremely eventful 2020, what is the outlook for persistent change? In this special midyear episode, Josh Barro speaks with Dorian Warren and Megan McArdle about whether this year’s events — in policing and racial justice, the economy, and public health — will make change in these areas more possible and more necessary. A lot of change is happening quickly. The government has spent trillions to support the economy, Americans’ lives are barely recognizable, and public opinion has moved faster than we’ve ever seen on issues related to race and policing. Will it change the country permanently? Positively? And what are we learning from these extraordinary months? Megan notes that many trends appear revolutionary in the short term but less so in the long term, citing how little changed after the 1918 Spanish flu epidemic. She also says there are examples in our history of police reform and “defunding” actually backfiring, and reform may be more difficult in the midst of economic troubles. Dorian notes that we’ve already seen incredible change as a result of the multiple crises facing the country now. “Normal models we look for in politics don’t quite explain how much change we’ve seen so far...” and he says generational change and indicators in the culture should not be underestimated.
How’s this for a civilized yet provocative start to the show? This week, people finally started admitting Josh Barro has been right about Joe Biden. Though, for the record, a lot of people have been agreeing with him all along: voters. Now, many others are realizing maybe what America needs next in a president is a broadly acceptable leader with unifying messages that can make people feel good about the country again, and one who adopts broadly popular reform positions while resisting the pressure to be on the unpopular side of wedge issues. Well, on this show, we do a lot of disagreeing, and Megan McArdle and Christine Emba have some things to say about Josh’s victory lap. What everyone does agree on is that President Trump’s handling of national crises grew even more grim and it’s definitely not helping him in the polls. The sparsely attended Tulsa rally didn’t help either, nor do the spikes in covid-19 cases in the south and west. Progressives had a strong showing in Tuesday’s primaries, so what are the implications further down the ballot if Biden wins big in November? Plus: what should be done about China? Democrats and Republicans feel increasingly negative about our relationship with China. Why is it so hard to determine the exact foreign policy strategy? Ali Wyne from the Atlantic Council joins the panel to talk about the tough road ahead.
The Supreme Court delivered two major opinions this week and conservatives are not very happy with two Republican-appointed justices. Justice Neil Gorsuch — often held up as the example of why Republicans should tolerate President Trump’s antics — wrote the opinion in a 6-3 decision that said employers cannot discriminate against employees on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity because, well, Gorsuch argues that’s what the text of the law says. Might conservatives abandon textualism? Later in the week, the Supreme Court decided 5-4 the Trump administration improperly tried to rescind the Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals program, which protects from deportation many unauthorized immigrants who arrived in the country as minors. One way to read Chief Justice John Roberts’s opinion, Emily Bazelon says, is that he’s offended by the Trump administration’s sloppy lawyering. They should have been more clear about why they wanted to toss protections for Dreamers. Michael Steele says the administration’s actions are less about a coherent immigration policy and more about undoing President Obama’s work. This decision, of course, doesn’t erase all the uncertainty about the future of DACA. Plus: why did the Supreme Court pass on cases about the Second Amendment and qualified immunity? And speaking of, how much would eliminating qualified immunity actually improve police behavior? Without it, Christine Emba says there could be trickle-up accountability — the threat of a lawsuit could make officers behave better, but maybe it would simply force local government to pay more attention to training and hire better officers. Emily Bazelon says the threat of lawsuits can be a good accountability tool for law enforcement, but for large-scale reform, major culture change is necessary from leadership to the unions and through the ranks. Finally: John Bolton’s tell-all memoir is coming out next week, and the details in it are pretty embarrassing for President Trump. The Department of Justice is trying very hard to stop the publication of the book. Josh Barro says it’s an egregious abuse of power for the Department of Justice to try to silence John Bolton and punish him for exercising his First Amendment rights.
Biden’s lead widens

Biden’s lead widens

2020-06-1252:035

Lots of people in Washington seem to want more distance from President Trump as his actions have grown even more erratic and his poll numbers have deteriorated. This week, General Mark Milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff apologized for appearing with President Trump in that infamous church photo opp. Mitt Romney got a lot of attention for marching in support of Black Lives Matter. Michael Steele says it was partially political because the senator is unlikely to face retribution from his party or his constituents but it’s an important moral and personal move too. This week, there was a pretty big contrast between President Trump’s calls for “law and order” and Joe Biden’s empathy, and the polls show Biden with a growing lead over the president. It appears Biden is more open and interested in policies further to the left. He might not be a full-blown leftist, but he appears to be open to influence, Christine Emba says. Protests about policing are yielding government action. New York passed ten police reform laws, Minneapolis is moving toward efforts to abolish its police department, though it’s not entirely clear what that would mean or what institutions would be developed to replace it. Democrats in Congress have a suite of proposals and Republicans are working on their own slate. But some activists urge that we abolish or defund the police. What does that mean? Emily Owens says, too often, discussions about policing focus on its impact and benefits, and it’s important to consider the costs of policing — to communities, to the social safety net, and to people’s lives. Plus, America is reopening despite the fact that COVID-19 cases appear to be spiking. President Trump even intends to resume campaign rallies. Are we ready if things get worse? Is the president?
The killing of George Floyd by a white police officer who now faces murder charges set off a wave of peaceful protests nationwide. It also resulted in incidents of violence, with police officers blamed for using unnecessarily brutal methods to clear activists, while others have been accused of using the guise of activism to destroy and steal property. Meanwhile the president’s response has elicited criticism from some surprising sources, including the military community. The panel considers this moment: Does it represent a seismic shift? Will either party advocate real reform? The panel reacts with a mix of hope and reality. Plus: The Left has been clamoring for General Jim Mattis, President Trump’s former defense secretary, to speak out. Did he choose the right time? Will it matter what he’s said? And how much does it matter who Joe Biden picks to be his running mate?  This episode of Left, Right & Center has an all-black panel: Keli Goff is the Center with Christine Emba on the Left, Michael Steele on the Right and special guest Robert A. George. 
George Floyd

George Floyd

2020-05-2954:553

The death of George Floyd — who was killed by a Minneapolis police officer who knelt on his neck for seven minutes in the process of arresting him — has reignited outrage over police treatment of black Americans. There have been protests in cities across the country in response to Floyd’s death and the recent deaths of Breonna Taylor and Ahmaud Arbery, and in Minneapolis, a level of unrest led the governor to call in the National Guard. The panel discusses what’s driving the protests and what governments can do to gain the public’s trust that justice will be done when police abuse power. Also on the show: Joe Biden has a plan for that. That’s what Matt Yglesias says: that Biden is the most progressive Democratic nominee ever with a long list of plans for progressive policy change. But will progressives believe that? And will conservatives be able to convince anyone that Biden is a radical? The United States Postal Service, like many institutions, faces financial trouble due to the pandemic. What’s the social purpose of the post office? And what does that say about how Congress should help it out?
President Trump really doesn’t want to be photographed wearing a mask (even though he has a cool one with the Presidential Seal on it). But 72% of Americans say that they’re wearing masks all or most of the time when they’re out of the house. So why have masks become a political symbol? And will that interfere with efforts to contain the virus? Plus: Florida Governor Ron DeSantis had a relative light touch when it came to lockdown orders and many critics warned of dire outcomes from that. Was Governor DeSantis right all along? Or has he just been lucky? Then: Frederick Hess, resident scholar and director of the Education Policy Studies at the American Enterprise Institute, joins the panel to look at how the coronavirus is affecting education. Are students actually learning at home right now? Will schools be ready to open in the fall? And is there even enough money to pay for all the changes needed to make it work?
President Trump is very upset about Obamagate. It seems to have to do with his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn — who the president fired after he lied to Vice President Pence and the FBI, and who pleaded guilty to charges that the Department of Justice is now seeking to drop. Is this a really important political issue? Or is this just President Trump’s effort to talk about anything besides the pandemic? Plus: Will Joe Biden leave his basement? Or, does laying low draw the contrast with President Trump that works for his campaign? Does either candidate need to be worried about their campaign right now? Then: Richard Haass, president of the Council on Foreign Relations joins the panel to grade the American and international response to the coronavirus pandemic. What happens when international institutions atrophy? This isn’t all President Trump’s fault: so far, the pandemic has highlighted changes to the international order that have put the US in a weaker position to lead through the crisis.
More than 20 million jobs were lost in April and it keeps getting worse. Millions of Americans continue to file for new unemployment benefits every week. Is there and end in sight? And what does a plan look like to keep Americans afloat through the rest of the crisis and ensure that business is there to employ them again? Former top Obama economic adviser Gene Sperling joins the panel to talk about economic dignity in a pandemic and after. Will there be significant policy changes to match this recognition of the importance of essential workers, so many of whom are low paid? Even Mitt Romney has a bill for federally funded hazard pay for essential workers in this crisis. But will America’s relationship to low-paid essential workers change permanently, or will our economy go back to its precarious normal? Plus: the Justice Department wants to drop the charge against Michael Flynn for lying to federal agents, a charge he already pleaded guilty to. Ken White joins the panel to talk about the justification for that, and what it means for other criminal defendants.
Joe Biden says it never happened. Biden spoke publicly for the first time in response to an accusation from former Senate staffer Tara Reade, who says Biden sexually assaulted her in 1993. How should voters evaluate this allegation? And how does Democratic support for Biden square with Biden’s own expressed standard from the Brett Kavanaugh fight that “you’ve got to start off with the presumption that at least the essence” of these sorts of allegations is real. Dr. Ashish Jha of the Harvard Global Health Institute talks about states easing stay-at-home orders and trying to reopen the economy. We have to do it sooner than later, but do we have what it needs to make that reopening sustainable? Dr. Jha talks about the level of testing we need and if states are ready to trace the contacts of people who test positive for Covid-19. Plus: Justin Amash’s Libertarian bid for president, stay-at-home protests in Michigan, and how hard it can be to access unemployment insurance in certain states
Congress agreed this week to replenish money for the Paycheck Protection Program, which makes loans to certain kinds of businesses that are hurt by the pandemic and then forgives those loans if businesses keep their workers on payroll. But there are some problems. There wasn’t enough money, smaller businesses without really deep banking relationships have been left behind, and some bigger “small” businesses have gotten the money while mom-and-pop businesses haven’t gotten any. Even with new money, the PPP is likely to run out of money again, and the dispute at the center of the next bailout package will be assistance to state and local governments. Mitch McConnell says states should be able to file for bankruptcy. Does that make sense? Then Samuel Brannen gives us a check up on the US coronavirus response. Sam was part of a pandemic simulation just a few months ago — how is the real-life response tracking with that simulation? Unfortunately: he doesn’t have good news. The panel points to President Trump’s increasingly unhelpful and absurd coronavirus briefings. Is he intentionally weakening his presidency so he can’t be blamed for anything? Should the response to a crisis like this be centered in the federal government or the states? Or does it make more sense for states and localities to decide certain measures while the federal government concentrates on the bigger picture issues, like testing and sharing of resources? Sam says government and governments have never mattered more than our lifetime than right now.
Regardless of who has the ‘total authority,’ the Left, Right & Center panel agrees we need a lot more to actually reopen the country: more testing, more hospital capacity, and other things that will inspire confidence in the public. And isn’t all this reopening talk a little premature? No public official can reopen the economy if the public is afraid to leave their homes. (Though some Michiganders protested Governor Gretchen Whitmer’s stay-at-home orders this week.) Another announcement President Trump made this week is that he’s withdrawing funding for the World Health Organization, which has been widely criticized for its handling of the pandemic and being too solicitous of the concerns of the Chinese government. In defunding the WHO, will the US have more influence and leverage, or will the WHO just turn more toward China, strengthening China’s hand? Dan Drezner talks about the threat to defund the organization and what can be done to counter China’s influence in international organizations. Then: the program to support small business payrolls has already run out of money. Economist Jason Furman joins the panel to talk about how the operation to keep the American economy on ice is going.
It's Biden

It's Biden

2020-04-1052:291

Bernie Sanders announced the suspension of his presidential campaign this week, making Joe Biden the official presumptive Democratic nominee. What is the legacy of his campaign? Does it signal a complete lack of interest in very left policies and a major win for conservatives in the US, or does it show gradual change? Wisconsin’s primary election went ahead this week as scheduled, despite the coronavirus pandemic. Is this a preview of future primaries and the general election in November? Should both Democrats and Republicans favor voting by mail? President Trump is being criticized for taking too much of the spotlight during daily coronavirus briefings at the expense of medical experts. Is it time for that to change? Is President Trump capable of changing that? Finally: one concerning theme of this pandemic is the political polarization of attitudes about it, but polling suggests that even though Democrats and Republicans might be saying opposite things, they’re pretty much behaving the same way: staying home, avoiding social contact, following guidelines. But this pandemic also feels like a crisis that could also be the nexus of other American crises: low trust in government, fake news and motivated reasoning. Cognitive scientist Hugo Mercier says people are relatively good at distinguishing good information from bad information, especially when their lives depend on it.
At least ten million Americans filed for unemployment in the last two weeks of March, and that’s not the end of it. Has the federal government done enough to support Americans financially through this crisis? Is there a missed opportunity for reform and bigger, longer term ideas in the response? And what will the government have to do more of as this crisis continues? Rich Lowry argues this real crisis puts previous crises in perspective, like impeachment and the Mueller investigation. Elizabeth Bruenig brings up the moral questions that underly a pandemic and our responses to it. Jonathan Karl, chief White House correspondent for ABC News, has a new book called Front Row At The Trump Show. Jon talks about President Trump’s long coronavirus briefings and what it’s like to cover them, the similarities between his reaction to the pandemic and to Hurricane Maria and Hurricane Dorian, how the president actually feels about reporters (and vice versa), and what we can expect to see from him as the pandemic crisis bears down on the general election. Also: the Democratic presidential primary is technically still going on. Is Joe Biden doing the right thing by laying (somewhat) low?
What’s our prognosis?

What’s our prognosis?

2020-03-2701:00:393

The US now leads the world in confirmed coronavirus cases, but it appears we haven’t reached the worst yet.President Trump signed a $2 trillion economic relief package for Americans and businesses. How much relief is in the relief bill? And will it be enough? The president is also eager to reopen the country, which could be a disaster if it’s done too early. Is President Trump wrong to say he doesn’t think New York will need tens of thousands of ventilators? How is the American healthcare system responding so far? Aaron Carroll and Betsey Stevenson join the panel for this week’s episode.
Stay at home

Stay at home

2020-03-2051:441

Californians and New Yorkers and people in many other jurisdictions are being ordered to stay at home, and it’s advised across the whole country. Is this going to work to stop the coronavirus outbreak? And are our hospitals ready for the surge of patients they are sure to see over the coming weeks? Dr.Kavita Patel will join us to discuss hospital preparedness, the shortage of coronavirus tests, and the prognosis for our fight against the epidemic.Conor Dougherty (economics reporter for the New York Times) will join us to discuss the crushing impact that epidemic-fighting measures are having on the economy and on workers. What can the federal government do, and whatmustit do to address that aspect of the crisis? And what does a stay-at-home order mean if you don’t have a home? The coronavirus crisis creates new urgency for California to address its homelessness crisis. Will these extraordinary circumstances help the state muster solutions to a very complicated issue?
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Comments (104)

Ryan Pena

lolol Josh tried to brag now that Biden is up so much against Trump but his analysis is the exact wrong one. it's not that Biden is getting people enthused to vote for him. it's that Trump is such an utter catastrophe that people want to vote out Trump. love that he tries to brag about "being right" and yet his analysis couldn't be more wrong

Jun 28th
Reply

Nick Theodore

Why don't you guys get someone who is pro-trump on the right to give everyone both sides prospectives. I love the premise of this podcast, though.

Jun 21st
Reply

Ryan Pena

steele is such a better representative of the right. Lowry was just full of talking points while steele actually gives nuanced opinions about the topics. hope he stays on long term

Jun 14th
Reply

Jimmy Jurassic

The Band-Aid analogy was so spot on, I broke out into laughter. Congrats Em.

Jun 13th
Reply (1)

Sirk Roh

I've been listening to this podcast since the beginning, but I can't listen to Lowry anymore. Another 'conservative' who has turned into another self-righteous Trump sycophant. I had to stop listening to the previous podcast. Steele was very refreshing. I'll try to keep an open mind, but it's work to continue to listen.

Jun 13th
Reply

Mike Brennan

self-proclaimed all black panel, discussing elements of discrimination in the press, in the national institutions and in the RNC. Absolutely riveting. I love Josh and all his works, but this group needs to be reconvened and institutionalized as a podcast.

Jun 8th
Reply

Jimmy Jurassic

As a Brown Independent, I have to say, Michael Steele is the most brutally honest political nerd I have heard to date. I could listen to him for days.

Jun 6th
Reply

Jimmy Jurassic

"That black guy who the cop killed." "Which one?" "The one they strangled." "Which one?

Jun 2nd
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John Shirts

I'm an independent who leans conservative. I've enjoyed this podcast immensely for the rich debates. I measure the credibility of each participant based on how readily they are able to see conflicting perspectives in each issue. I found that Liz and Rich were both good at finding points worth criticizing in own their sides. however this episode demonstrates that the podcast has decidedly moved left and camped out there. Literally all of the participants pushed a perspective of the left, including Josh as the ostensible center and the guest, who perpetually tried to strengthen his argument by making references to other left leaning world views. Only Rich ever criticized his own side. I find this lack of balance in the conversation disheartening. The addition of Christine does not help. She is a confirmed partisan who has demonstrated no willingness to see the cracks in her own side. Please bring back some credibility to your central value proposition by showing respect to all sides. This should not be a gang up session on the right. And the last several episodes have proved that just that.

May 30th
Reply (1)

Ryan Pena

lolol listening to Rich try and explain what obamagate is was sooo painful. I love that Christine just laughed at him. it's so ridiculous. I'd say the FBI and the Obama administration had cause since he was a literal foreign agent for another country Turkey which is also illegal. Trump and Republicans freaking out about this is doing nothing more but trying 2 distract president's failures with the coronavirus response

May 21st
Reply (1)

Dustin Meyers

listening to Rich Lowry is just painful. Has he been paying attention at all? If John Kerry had a different view of Iran and was incoming NS Advisor AND Iran had tried to intervene in our election AND had lied to the FBI when asked about his contacts with Iran, THAT would be the same thing.

May 16th
Reply (2)

Francesca King

Exactly, we need to make those who lie to Congress face some strict consequences. The reason most people don't trust government because there seems to be two different types of laws when these breaches happen.

May 4th
Reply

Nonya Bizness

i'm sorry, guy on the right. different parts of a state are only different from the state itself in political and economic terms. NOT in terms of a contageous virus. just because TO DATE, parts of a state have been infected while other parts have not been, doesn't mean that they can't be. you seem to be of the mind that if an area avoided being hit by a large amount of disease, we could have been less stringent with restrictions there. the opposite is true: areas with little disease met our goal, so what we did there was correct. opening a state in checkerboard fashion will undoubtedly ensure blanket coverage of disease.

May 3rd
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Merritt Cowart

Was Betsey Stevenson invited as a guest to provide her "expertise" on coronavirus, or was she invited instead to provide snarky crticism of Donald Trump, the Trump Administration, and Rich Lowry? Whatever hope their was in providing useful information, that message got lost in her inability to being informative.

Mar 29th
Reply

Chandra Powers-Wersch

according to Vox delegate tracker, Klobuchar is only 1 delegate behind Warren (before Sat 29th). i guess I don't understand why the commentators in this episode were so baffled she's staying in and not baffled by both her AND Warren staying in the race (again, context before South Carolina and super Tuesday)

Feb 29th
Reply

Darcie Harris

While I concur that primaries are the place to "fight," it should be fighting about differences in policy ideas. The Democrats are handing the election to Trump with the snide, sarcastic and snarky insults of one another. As an undecided Democrat, I refuse to vote for any candidate who takes cheap shots at any other Democrat. We have lived through four years of crass, crude and cruel insults. Let's not encourage this among Democrats just because Trump has normalized this undignified behavior.

Feb 22nd
Reply

Louis Petitjean

So the Lowry défense wins the day

Feb 1st
Reply

Lori

For the first time I agree with you @Rich Lowry. I absolutely believe that Sen. Warren lied about the conversation with Sanders. If Sanders had said that a woman couldn't win the Presidential election in 2020 then she wouldn't have made the non-agression pact with him in the first place.

Jan 18th
Reply

Dryad

a lot of far right people in the comments apparently thinking left, right and center is somehow supposed to mean "right, right, and more right"

Jan 4th
Reply

Hector Soler

You guys are clueless you are MSNBC CNN bull trap buy a clue

Dec 28th
Reply
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