Lenny's Podcast: Product | Career | Growth

Howie Liu is the co-founder and CEO of Airtable, the no-code platform valued at around $12 billion. After a viral tweet declared “Airtable is dead” based on incorrect data, Howie led a radical transformation: reorganizing the entire company around AI, becoming an “IC CEO” who codes daily, and achieving over $100 million in free cash flow.What you’ll learn:1. The “fast thinking” vs. “slow thinking” team structure that lets Airtable ship AI features weekly (inspired by Daniel Kahneman)2. Why Howie uses AI hourly (not daily) and is Airtable’s #1 inference-cost user globally3. Why CEOs must become ICs again in the AI era (and how to restructure your calendar to make it possible)4. Why “playing” with AI tools should be mandatory—Howie tells employees to cancel all meetings for a week to experiment5. The specific skills product managers, engineers, and designers need to develop to succeed in the AI era6. Why evals can kill innovation (and when to use “vibes” instead)—Brought to you by:LucidLink—Real-time cloud storage for teamsDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchersClaude.ai—The AI for problem solvers and enterprise—Where to find Howie Liu• X: https://x.com/howietl• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/howieliu/• Email: howie@airtable.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Howie Liu and Airtable(04:05) The “Airtable is dead” viral tweet controversy(08:07) The rise of IC CEOs(10:57) AI’s paradigm shift in product development(16:27) Specific changes Airtable has made(21:38) Fast- and slow-thinking teams(32:57) The emergence of new form factors in AI models(34:48) Airtable’s vision and philosophy(40:20) Empowering teams with AI tools(46:50) Encouraging experimentation and play(50:55) Cross-functional skills in product teams(01:03:35) The importance of evals and open-ended testing(01:08:06) Key strategies for AI-driven success(01:12:43) Counterintuitive startup wisdom(01:22:21) Don't step away from the details that you love(01:25:50) Advice for aspiring engineers and designers(01:30:00) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/• All In podcast: https://allin.com/• Nikita Bier on X: https://x.com/nikitabier• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• The AI-native startup: 5 products, 7-figure revenue, 100% AI-written code | Dan Shipper (co-founder and CEO of Every): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-every-dan-shipper• Every: https://every.to/• Cursor: https://cursor.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/• Omni: https://www.airtable.com/lp/ai-psu-plp• How ChatGPT accidentally became the fastest-growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/• Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai/• v0: https://v0.dev/• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Replit: https://replit.com/• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Runway Game Worlds: https://play.runwayml.com/login• Sesame: https://www.sesame.com• NotebookLM: https://notebooklm.google• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com• Andrew Ofstad on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aofstad/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• Eames chair: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eames_Lounge_Chair• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• IDEO design thinking: https://designthinking.ideo.com/• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• The Studio on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/the-studio/umc.cmc.7518algxc4lsoobtsx30dqb52• Silicon Valley on HBOMax: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/silicon-valley/b4583939-e39f-4b5c-822d-5b6cc186172d• Self Edge: https://www.selfedge.com/• Studio D’Artisan: https://www.selfedge.com/studio-dartisan• Whitesville T-shirt: https://store.toyo-enterprise.co.jp/shopbrand/ct48/• Guest Series | Dr. Paul Conti: How to Understand & Assess Your Mental Health: https://www.hubermanlab.com/episode/guest-series-dr-paul-conti-how-to-understand-and-assess-your-mental-health—Recommended books:• Thinking, Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555• The Three-Body Problem: https://www.amazon.com/Three-Body-Problem-Cixin-Liu/dp/0765382032• Trauma: The Invisible Epidemic: How Trauma Works and How We Can Heal From It: https://us.amazon.com/Trauma-Invisible-Epidemic-Works-Heal/dp/1683647351/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Asha Sharma leads AI product strategy at Microsoft, where she works with thousands of companies building AI products and has unique visibility into what’s working (and what’s not) across more than 15,000 startups and enterprises. Before Microsoft, Asha was COO at Instacart, and VP of Product & Engineering at Meta, notably leading product for Messenger.What you’ll learn:1. Why we’re moving from “product as artifact” to “product as organism” and what this means for builders2. Microsoft’s “seasons” planning framework that allows them to adapt quickly in the AI era3. The death of the org chart: how agents are turning hierarchies into task networks and why “the loop, not the lane” is the new organizing principle4. Why post-training will soon see more investment than pre-training—and how to build your own AI moat with fine-tuning5. Her prediction for the “agentic society”—where org charts become work charts and agents outnumber humans in your company6. The three-phase pattern every successful AI company follows (and why most fail at phase one)7. The rise of code-native interfaces and why GUIs might be going the way of the desktop8. What Asha learned from Satya Nadella about optimism—Brought to you by:Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth: https://enterpret.com/lennyDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: http://getdx.com/lennyFin—The #1 AI agent for customer service: https://fin.ai/lenny—Transcript: ⁠https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-80000-companies-build-with-ai-asha-sharma—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): ⁠https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/171413445/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation⁠—Where to find Asha Sharma:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/aboutasha/• Blog: https://azure.microsoft.com/en-us/blog/author/asha-sharma/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Asha Sharma(04:18) From “product as artifact” to “product as organism”(06:20) The rise of post-training and the future of AI product development(09:10) Successful AI companies: patterns and pitfalls(12:01) The evolution of full-stack builders(14:15) “The loop, not the lane”—the new organizing principle(16:24) The future of user interfaces: from GUI to code-native(19:34) The rise of the agentic society(22:58) The “work chart” vs. the “org chart”(26:24) How Microsoft is using agents(28:23) Planning and strategy in the AI landscape(35:38) The importance of platform fundamentals(39:31) Lessons from industry giants(42:10) What’s driving Asha(44:30) Reinforcement learning (RL) and optimization loops(49:19) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/• Cursor: https://cursor.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Inside ChatGPT: The fastest growing product in history | Nick Turley (Head of ChatGPT at OpenAI): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley• GitHub: https://github.com• Dragon Medical One: https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/health-solutions/clinical-workflow/dragon-medical-one• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Lovable: https://lovable.dev/• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Bolt: http://bolt.com• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Replit: https://replit.com/•Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor• Sierra: https://sierra.ai/• Spark: https://github.com/features/spark• Peter Yang on X: https://x.com/petergyang• How AI will impact product management: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-ai-will-impact-product-management• Instacart: http://instacart.com/• Terminator: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terminator_(franchise)• Porch Group: https://porchgroup.com/• WhatsApp: https://www.whatsapp.com/• Maslow’s Hierarchy of Needs: https://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow.html• Satya Nadella on X: https://x.com/satyanadella• Perfect Match 360°: Artificial intelligence to find the perfect donor match: https://ivi-fertility.com/blog/perfect-match-360-artificial-intelligence-to-find-the-perfect-donor-match/• OpenAI’s GPT-5 shows potential in healthcare with early cancer detection capabilities: https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/us/openais-gpt-5-shows-potential-in-healthcare-with-early-cancer-detection-capabilities/articleshow/123173952.cms• F1: The Movie: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt16311594/• For All Mankind on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/for-all-mankind/umc.cmc.6wsi780sz5tdbqcf11k76mkp7• The Home Depot: https://www.homedepot.com/• Dewalt Powerstack: https://www.dewalt.com/powerstack• Regret Minimization Framework: https://s3.amazonaws.com/kajabi-storefronts-production/sites/2147500522/themes/2148012322/downloads/rLuObc2QuOwjLrinx5Yu_regret-minimization-framework.pdf—Recommended books:• The Thinking Machine: Jensen Huang, Nvidia, and the World’s Most Coveted Microchip: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Machine-Jensen-Coveted-Microchip/dp/0593832698• Tomorrow, and Tomorrow, and Tomorrow: https://www.amazon.com/dp/0593466497Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.My biggest takeaways from this conversation: To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Garrett Lord is co-founder and CEO of Handshake, which started as a career network for college students and new grads but recently discovered something extraordinary: they were sitting on the world’s largest network of academic experts—exactly what frontier AI labs desperately needed. With 500,000 PhDs and 3 million advanced degree holders creating training data, in just eight months they’ve built a new business that hit $50 million in revenue in its first four months and is on track to blow past $100M in the first 12 months.What you’ll learn:1. How Handshake found an opportunity to leverage their proprietary network of experts to launch a data-labeling business that’s on track to blow past $100 million ARR in 12 months2. Why AI models need human experts (e.g. physics PhDs) to improve, and what this “data labeling” actually involves3. Inside the actual work: what a biology PhD does for 8 hours that makes GPT-5 smarter4. The playbook for building a startup inside a startup: separate teams, separate offices, separate everything5. Why the shift from “generalist” to “expert” data labeling created a once-in-a-lifetime business opportunity6. Why AI won’t eliminate entry-level jobs—it’s creating “Iron Man suits” that make junior employees 10x more productive—Brought to you by:CodeRabbit—Cut code review time and bugs in half. Instantly: https://coderabbit.link/lennyOrkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/Claude.ai—The AI for problem solvers and enterprise: http://claude.ai/—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-handshake-garrett-lord—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/171410958/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Garrett Lord:• X: https://x.com/garrettlord• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/garrettlord/• Email: Garrett@joinhandshake.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Garrett Lord(05:00) Understanding data labeling and its importance(13:08) The role of experts in AI model training(15:35) The future of AI and human collaboration(24:17) Why AI won’t eliminate entry-level jobs(27:58) The continuous improvement of AI models(33:05) The emergence of Handshake’s new business model(37:07) Incubating new ideas in established companies(40:42) Handshake's competitive advantage(45:43) Scaling up and meeting market demand(48:38) Overcoming challenges and adapting(53:08) The importance of separate teams and ownership(57:26) The future of job matching with AI(01:00:30) The biggest bottlenecks to advancing models further(01:02:37) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• GPQA: https://github.com/idavidrein/gpqa• Handshake: https://joinhandshake.com/• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Goldman Sachs: https://www.goldmansachs.com/• General Motors: https://www.gm.com/• Google: https://about.google/• Sahil Bhaiwala on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sahil-bhaiwala-459b0354/• Francisco “Paco” Guzman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/guzmanhe/• Avery Yip on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/averyyip/• Game of Thrones on HBO: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/game-of-thrones/4f6b4985-2dc9-4ab6-ac79-d60f0860b0ac• SNOO: https://www.happiestbaby.com/products/snoo-smart-bassinet• Careers at Handshake: https://joinhandshake.com/careers/—Recommended books:• Zero to One: Notes on Startups, or How to Build the Future: https://www.amazon.com/Zero-One-Notes-Startups-Future/dp/0804139296• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers―Straight Talk on the Challenges of Entrepreneurship: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Eoghan McCabe is the founder and CEO of Intercom, a customer service platform that has successfully pivoted to become an AI-first company with its agent product, Fin. After stepping away from the CEO role in 2020 due to health issues, Eoghan returned to find the company’s growth had stalled. Just one month after his return, ChatGPT launched, and within six weeks, Intercom had a working prototype of what would become Fin. In this conversation, Eoghan shares the brutal reality of transforming a late-stage SaaS business valued at multiple billions into an AI-first company that’s now growing faster than most public software companies.We discuss:1. Why Eoghan believes most late-stage companies won’t survive the AI transition2. The “founder mode” transformation that required firing 40% of staff and resulted in 98% employee satisfaction3. Why having “nothing to lose” is the ultimate advantage in AI transformation (and why comfortable companies will fail)4. How Intercom transformed from a plateauing SaaS business to an AI-first company growing at 300%+5. How Intercom’s pricing evolved from “the most hated in SaaS” to a model that charges just $0.99 per resolved ticket6. The cultural transformation required to compete with AI-native startups7. How 12 years of therapy and a period of “ego death” shaped Eoghan’s leadership approach—Brought to you by:Great Question—Empower everyone to run great research: https://www.greatquestion.com/lennyWorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs: https://workos.com/lennyDX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: http://getdx.com/lenny—Transcript: ⁠https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-intercom-rose-from-the-ashes-eoghan-mccabe—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/170710700/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Eoghan McCabe:• X: https://x.com/eoghan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eoghanmccabe/• Website: https://eoghanmccabe.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Eoghan(05:00) The state of Intercom(09:53) The decision to pivot to AI(12:33) Why Eoghan is "anti-bot" in customer service(16:19) Pricing strategy evolution(19:26) Implementing the AI transformation(26:11) Cultural and organizational changes(31:18) Surviving a coup attempt(40:05) The future of AI and business(45:11) AI's impact on jobs(48:44) AI and human creativity(50:26) The importance of young AI talent(55:00) The cultural shift in AI adoption(58:00) Personal growth and leadership(01:04:34) Intercom’s success in producing product leaders(01:11:05) Intercom’s unique company culture(01:14:11) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/• Fin: https://fin.ai/• Des Traynor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/destraynor/• The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan• Pricing your AI product: Lessons from 400+ companies and 50 unicorns | Madhavan Ramanujam: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Anthropic co-founder on quitting OpenAI, AGI predictions, $100M talent wars, 20% unemployment, and the nightmare scenarios keeping him up at night | Ben Mann: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann• Fergal Reid on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fergalreid/• How Perplexity builds product: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-perplexity-builds-product• Yosi Amram’s website: https://yamram.com/• (Nathaniel Russell) Ego Death Now: https://heythereprojects.shop/products/copy-of-nathaniel-russell-space-is-a-place• Daniel Kahneman: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Kahneman• Palantir: https://www.palantir.com/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• Revolut: https://www.revolut.com/en-US/• Paul Adams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/pauladams• What AI means for your product strategy | Paul Adams (CPO of Intercom): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/what-ai-means-for-your-product-strategy• Which companies accelerate PM careers most: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/which-companies-accelerate-your-pm• N26: https://n26.com/en-eu• Notion: https://www.notion.so/• Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/• True Detective on Max: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/true-detective/9a4a3645-74e0-4e4d-9f35-31464b402357• 28 Years Later: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt10548174/• Trainspotting: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117951/• 28 Days Later: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0289043/• Fellow: https://fellowproducts.com/• Porsche 911: https://www.porsche.com/usa/models/911/• Making Meta | Andrew ‘Boz’ Bosworth (CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-meta-andrew-boz-bosworth-cto—Recommended book:• Nuclear War: A Scenario: https://www.amazon.com/Nuclear-War-Scenario-Annie-Jacobsen/dp/0593476093Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Brian Balfour is the founder of Reforge, the former VP of Growth at HubSpot, and a student (and teacher) of product growth. Brian has studied every major platform shift—from Facebook to Apple to Google—and he’s spotted a pattern that’s about to repeat with ChatGPT.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The 4-step cycle every platform follows (and why ChatGPT just entered step 2)2. Why ChatGPT’s platform launch could be bigger than Facebook’s early platform3. The exact signals that ChatGPT will launch a third-party platform within six months4. Why you have six months (not years) to make your platform bet5. Why companies that don’t integrate with ChatGPT will lose to competitors that do6. How Zynga grew to $1B by betting on Facebook’s platform early (before it was obvious)7. Why so few companies are actually doing what they need to be doing right now—Brought to you by:DX—The developer intelligence platform designed by leading researchers: http://getdx.com/lennyBasecamp—The famously straightforward project management system from 37signals: https://www.basecamp.com/lennyMiro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life: https://miro.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/why-chatgpt-will-be-the-next-big-growth-channel-brian-balfour—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/170294620/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Brian Balfour:• X: https://twitter.com/bbalfour• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bbalfour/• Website: https://brianbalfour.com/• Substack: https://blog.brianbalfour.com/• Podcast: https://www.reforge.com/podcast/unsolicited-feedback—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Welcome back, Brian!(04:13) The changing landscape of product growth(05:09) The importance of distribution(08:14) The role of new distribution platforms(09:45) The four-step cycle of distribution platforms(17:38) Examples of platform cycles(30:01) The rise of ChatGPT(44:47) The future of AI agents(46:01) Preferred partners and platform credibility(47:18) Monetization mechanisms and free tiers(48:14) Betting strategies for startups(01:04:34) Adopting AI tools: challenges and strategies(01:08:41) The importance of hard constraints(01:14:23) Effective AI adoption in companies(01:19:05) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• The Next Great Distribution Shift: https://blog.brianbalfour.com/p/the-next-great-distribution-shift• Brian Balfour: 10 lessons on career, growth, and life: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-balfour-10-lessons-on-career• This Week #9: Breaking into growth, leading with influence, and (not) stepping on toes: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/this-week-9-breaking-into-growth• Distribution vs. Innovation: https://a16z.com/distribution-vs-innovation/• On Platform Shifts and AI: https://caseyaccidental.com/on-platform-shifts-and-ai/• How to sell your ideas and rise within your company | Casey Winters, Eventbrite: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-sell-your-ideas-and-rise-within• Thinking beyond frameworks | Casey Winters (Pinterest, Eventbrite, Airbnb, Tinder, Canva, Reddit, Grubhub): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/thinking-beyond-frameworks-casey• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/• Claude: https://claude.ai/• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/• Vine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vine_(service)• Periscope: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periscope_(service)• Myspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace• Friendster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendster• AltaVista: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AltaVista• Lycos: https://www.lycos.com/• HubSpot: https://www.hubspot.com/• Zynga: https://www.zynga.com/• TBPN: https://www.tbpn.com/• Deedy Das on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/debarghyadas/• ChatGPT’s product retention curves are a product manager's wet dream: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/debarghyadas_chatgpts-product-retention-curves-are-a-activity-7338384752393035776-ice1/• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/• Cursor: https://cursor.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Notion: https://www.notion.com/• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/• Monday: monday.com• Sierra: http://sierra.ai• He saved OpenAI, invented the “Like” button, and built Google Maps: Bret Taylor on the future of careers, coding, agents, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor• Introducing ChatGPT agent: bridging research and action: https://openai.com/index/introducing-chatgpt-agent/• Zigging vs. zagging: How HubSpot built a $30B company | Dharmesh Shah (co-founder/CTO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/lessons-from-30-years-of-building• Marc Andreessen on Why Optimism Is the Safest Bet: https://nymag.com/marc-andressen-2014-10-20/• Reforge: https://www.reforge.com• Reforge Insights: https://www.reforge.com/insights• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• 25 proven tactics to accelerate AI adoption at your company: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/25-proven-tactics-to-accelerate-ai• Clouded Judgement: https://cloudedjudgement.substack.com/• NFX: https://www.nfx.com/news• James Currier: https://www.nfx.com/team/james-currier• Hallway Chat: https://www.hallwaychat.co/• Bryan Johnson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bryanrjohnson/• Silicon Valley on HBO: https://www.hbomax.com/shows/silicon-valley/b4583939-e39f-4b5c-822d-5b6cc186172d• Stick: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/stick/umc.cmc.52w04zy67tiv11p8xvbc57wmc• Ergonofis standing desks: https://ergonofis.com/en-us/collections/standing-desks• Coping with the loss of a child and protecting your time | Brian Balfour (father of 2, CEO and founder Reforge, venture partner): https://www.startupdadpod.com/coping-with-the-loss-of-a-child-and-protecting-your-time-brian-balfour-father-of-2-ceo-and-found/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Matt LeMay spent 13 years as a music critic at Pitchfork before becoming one of product management’s most influential voices. He’s consulted with companies from startups to Fortune 500s and authored two essential PM books, including Impact-First Product Teams. After watching countless product teams get laid off despite “doing everything right,” he discovered a harsh truth: most PMs are optimizing for the wrong things.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The one question that predicts if your team will survive the next layoffs (and why most teams can’t answer it)2. Why following product “best practices” perfectly can actually accelerate your path to unemployment3. The “low-impact PM death spiral”—how teams accidentally make themselves irrelevant4. How to push back on executives without saying “no” (the options, plus a recommendation framework)5. The counterintuitive reason why the happiest PMs are also the most commercially minded6. The Liz Phair review that made Matt an internet villain for 22 years—and what it taught him about product management—Brought to you by:Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth: https://enterpret.com/lennyPragmatic Institute—Industry‑recognized product, marketing, and AI training & certifications: https://pragmaticinstitute.com/lennyClaude.ai—The AI for problem solvers and enterprise: http://claude.ai/—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-one-question-that-saves-product-careers-matt-lemay—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168109376/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Matt LeMay:• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mttlmy• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattlemay/• Website: https://mattlemay.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Matt LeMay(04:23) Matt’s background and transition to product management(06:47) The goal of Matt's new book(12:00) How to stress test your thinking as a PM(15:32) Thinking like the CEO(17:33) The role of a product manager(23:36) The low-impact PM death spiral(27:47) Case study: Mailchimp’s transition to a platform company(32:53) Radical acceptance(41:24) Embracing constraints in product management(44:23) Steps to become an impact-first product team(49:38) Setting effective goals(01:02:15) Prioritization and impact estimation(01:07:58) Navigating stakeholder management(01:12:35) Summarizing the 3 steps(01:16:36) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Pitchfork: https://pitchfork.com/• Daniel Ek’s memo: https://newsroom.spotify.com/2023-12-04/an-update-on-december-2023-organizational-changes/• How to create a winning product strategy | Melissa Perri: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-create-a-winning-product-strategy• Everything you’ve ever wanted to know about SAFe and the product owner role | Melissa Perri (author, founder of Product Institute): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/product-owners-melissa-perri• Mailchimp: https://mailchimp.com/• Intuit: https://www.intuit.com/• Natalia Williams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nataliatwilliams/• The ultimate guide to OKRs | Christina Wodtke (Stanford): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-okrs-christina• Miro: https://miro.com/• Prioritizing: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/prioritizing• Temptation Island on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81744518• Mark L. Walberg’s website: https://markwalbergtv.com/about• Antiques Roadshow on PBS: https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/• Milkman amp: https://milkmansound.com/collections/amplifiers/products/the-amp• Matt’s review of Liz Phair’s self-titled album: https://pitchfork.com/reviews/albums/6255-liz-phair/• Pitchfork Critic Apologizes for Bashing Liz Phair Album; Singer Graciously Accepts: https://variety.com/2019/music/news/pitchfork-critic-apologizes-liz-phair-album-review-zero-score-1203326897/• RedMonk: https://redmonk.com/—Recommended books:• Product Management in Practice: A Practical, Tactical Guide for Your First Day and Every Day After: https://www.amazon.com/Product-Management-Practice-Practical-Tactical/dp/1098119738/r• Impact-First Product Teams: Define Success. Do Work That Matters. Be Indispensable.: https://www.amazon.com/Impact-first-Product-Teams-Success-Indispensable/dp/B0DVH4R3QJ• Escaping the Build Trap: How Effective Product Management Creates Real Value: https://www.amazon.com/Escaping-Build-Trap-Effective-Management/dp/B08B46C8R1/• Radical Focus: Achieving Your Most Important Goals with Objectives and Key Results: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Focus-Achieving-Important-Objectives/dp/0996006028• The Wisdom of Insecurity: A Message for an Age of Anxiety: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Insecurity-Message-Age-Anxiety/dp/0307741206/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Nick Turley is Head of ChatGPT, the fastest-growing product in history, with 700 million weekly active users (10% of the world’s population). He was part of the original hackathon team that shipped ChatGPT in just 10 days, helped it grow from zero to billions in revenue, and leads product for what may be the most consequential product of our time. We recorded this the day before GPT-5 launched.We discuss:1. The 10-day sprint from deciding to ship ChatGPT to Sam Altman’s tweet (and why it was originally called “Chat with GPT-3.5”)2. How they ran a willingness-to-pay Van Westendorp survey in their Discord to decide on the $20/month price point that everyone copied3. The “Is it maximally accelerated?” philosophy that drives OpenAI’s insane shipping velocity4. Why ChatGPT’s retention curve “smiles”—users leave, then come back months later using it more5. The accidental decisions that changed history, including not having a waitlist6. The impact ChatGPT will have on SEO and product growth7. The counterintuitive reason why shipping unpolished AI features beats waiting for perfection8. Why ChatGPT intentionally shipped with that “ugly” model-chooser dropdown9. How TikTok comments became a primary user research channel early on—Brought to you by:Orkes—The enterprise platform for reliable applications and agentic workflows: https://www.orkes.io/Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lennyPostHog—How developers build successful products: https://posthog.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/170411252/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Nick Turley• X: https://x.com/nickaturley• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasturley/• Website: https://nickturley.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Nick Turley(04:52) GPT-5 launch(09:13) The vision for ChatGPT and AI assistants(13:52) The early days of ChatGPT(17:14) The success and impact of ChatGPT(20:44) Product development and iteration(23:11) Maximally accelerated: the OpenAI approach(26:17) Retention and user engagement(33:42) The future of chat interfaces(36:31) The evolution of ChatGPT(38:52) Subscription model and pricing strategies(42:10) Enterprise adoption and challenges(44:10) Balancing multiple product lines(52:13) Emergent use cases and user feedback(01:02:15) OpenAI’s unique product development approach(01:05:07) The importance of team composition(01:08:50) Balancing speed and quality in AI development(01:14:23) The role of evals in product development(01:16:13) The future of AI-driven content and GPTs(01:21:51) Philosophy and product leadership(01:23:47) Career journey and advice(01:27:49) Lightning round and final thoughts—References: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-chatgpt-nick-turley—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Chip Conley is the founder of Joie de Vivre hotels, the second-largest boutique hotel brand in the world. At age 52, he joined Airbnb as Head of Global Hospitality and Strategy, reporting to CEO Brian Chesky, who was 21 years younger. He earned the title of Airbnb’s “Modern Elder” by guiding the young founders on leadership and culture while learning Silicon Valley’s tech mindset himself. Today, Chip leads the Modern Elder Academy, the world’s first midlife wisdom school, and is the author of best-selling books like Wisdom@Work and Peak. He champions the idea that age and experience are assets—and that midlife can be a launchpad for renewed purpose and impact.In this conversation, we discuss:1. The reality of Brian Chesky in “founder mode”—the good, bad, and stressful2. How Chip went from running 52 boutique hotels to becoming Airbnb’s in-house mentor in his 50s3. The “mentor and intern” mindset: how to simultaneously teach others and stay curious like a beginner4. Why AI might actually favor older workers (hint: human wisdom vs. artificial intelligence)5. His framework for navigating midlife transitions and finding meaning after 406. Specific tactics for older professionals to thrive in tech companies7. Surprising data that midlife is often the happiest time of life—and how to leverage your 40s, 50s, and beyond8. Chip’s formula for managing anxiety and fear (and how to regain control when worry strikes)—Brought to you by:Great Question—Empower everyone to run great research: https://www.greatquestion.com/lennyVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lennyCoda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/chip-conley —My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168435278/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Chip Conley:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/chipconleysf/• Website: https://chipconley.com/• Modern Elder Academy: https://www.meawisdom.com/• Podcast: https://www.meawisdom.com/podcast/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Chip Conley(04:09) Chip’s journey with Airbnb(10:35) Insights on working with Brian Chesky(19:56) The value of intergenerational collaboration(25:57) Addressing ageism in tech(41:33) Chip’s early career and founding Joie de Vivre(43:54) A life-changing near-death experience(46:39) The importance of company culture(55:57) The Modern Elder Academy(59:21) The upside of aging(01:06:53) AI in daily life(01:09:14) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Brian Chesky on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brianchesky/• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Natalie Tucci on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalietuccishoff/• Laura Modi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurahughes6/• How to build a cult-like brand | Laura Modi (Bobbie): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/from-growth-to-slowth-the-making• George Tenet: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_Tenet• Joie de Vivre Hospitality: https://www.hyatt.com/jdv-by-hyatt/en-US• Fest300: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fest300• John Q. Smith on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnqsmith/•Will A.I. Replace New Hires or Middle Managers?: https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/07/business/ai-job-cuts.html• Burning Man: https://burningman.org/• Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/• Bill Graham: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Graham_(promoter)• Maslow’s hierarchy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maslow%27s_hierarchy_of_needs• Measuring what makes life worthwhile: https://www.ted.com/talks/chip_conley_measuring_what_makes_life_worthwhile• Jonathan Mildenhall on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mildenhall/• Becca Levy’s website: https://becca-levy.com/• Kabuki Springs & Spa: https://kabukisprings.com/• How positive age beliefs can support positive health outcomes with Becca Levy, PhD: https://www.ama-assn.org/delivering-care/population-care/how-positive-age-beliefs-can-support-positive-health-outcomes-becca• The U-shape of Happiness Across the Life Course: Expanding the Discussion: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC7529452/• The Midlife Unraveling: https://brenebrown.com/articles/2018/05/24/the-midlife-unraveling/• Four Seasons: https://www.fourseasons.com/• Blue Zones: https://www.bluezones.com/• The Esalen Institute: https://www.esalen.org/• Wisdom Well blog: https://www.meawisdom.com/wisdom-well/• Elizabeth Gilbert TED Talk: Your elusive creative genius: https://www.ted.com/talks/elizabeth_gilbert_your_elusive_creative_genius• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy• I’ll Push You: https://www.illpushyou.com/• Vuori shorts: https://vuoriclothing.com/collections/shorts• Fly Ranch: https://flyranch.burningman.org/—Recommended books:• Wisdom at Work: The Making of a Modern Elder: https://www.amazon.com/Wisdom-Work-Making-Modern-Elder/dp/0525572902• Range: Why Generalists Triumph in a Specialized World: https://www.amazon.com/Range-Generalists-Triumph-Specialized-World/dp/0735214484• Peak: How Great Companies Get Their Mojo from Maslow: https://www.amazon.com/Peak-Great-Companies-Their-Maslow/dp/0787988618• Learning to Love Midlife: 12 Reasons Why Life Gets Better with Age: https://www.amazon.com/Learning-Love-Midlife-Reasons-Better/dp/0316567027• Man’s Search for Meaning: https://www.amazon.com/Mans-Search-Meaning-Viktor-Frankl/dp/0807060100/• Emotional Equations: Simple Steps for Creating Happiness + Success in Business + Life: https://www.amazon.com/Emotional-Equations-Creating-Happiness-Business/dp/1451607261/• Big Magic: Creative Living Beyond Fear: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Magic-Creative-Living-Beyond/dp/1594634726—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Bret Taylor’s legendary career includes being CTO of Meta, co-CEO of Salesforce, chairman of the board at OpenAI (yes, during that drama), co-creating both Google Maps and the Like button, and founding three companies. Today he’s the founder and CEO of Sierra, an AI agent company transforming customer service. He’s one of the few people I’ve met who’s been wildly successful at every level—from engineer to C-suite executive to founder—and across almost every discipline, including PM, engineer, CTO, COO, CPO, CEO, and board member.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The brutal product review that nearly ended his Google career—and how that failure led to creating Google Maps2. The question Sheryl Sandberg taught him to ask every morning (“What’s the most impactful thing I can do today?”) that transformed how he approached every role3. The three AI market segments that matter4. Why AI agents will replace SaaS products5. His framework for knowing whose advice to actually listen to—and how that came in handy during the OpenAI board drama6. The counterintuitive go-to-market strategy most AI startups get wrong7. Sierra’s outcome-based pricing model that’s transforming how enterprise software is sold (and why every SaaS company should adopt it)8. What he’s teaching his kids about AI that every parent should know—Brought to you by:CodeRabbit—Cut code review time and bugs in half. Instantly: https://coderabbit.link/lennyBasecamp—The famously straightforward project management system from 37signals: https://www.basecamp.com/lennyVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/he-saved-openai-bret-taylor—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168905359/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Bret Taylor:• X: https://x.com/btaylor• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brettaylor/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Bret Taylor(04:10) Bret’s early career and first major mistake(08:24) The birth of Google Maps(11:57) Lessons from FriendFeed and the importance of honest feedback(31:30) The future of coding and AI’s role(45:26) Preparing the next generation for an AI-driven world(48:46) AI in education(52:05) Business strategies in the AI market(01:04:38) Outcome-based pricing in AI(01:09:15) Productivity gains and AI(01:17:35) Go-to-market strategies for AI products(01:21:49) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Marissa Mayer on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissamayer/• “Lazy Sunday”—SNL: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sRhTeaa_B98• Quip: https://quip.com/• Sierra: https://sierra.ai/• FriendFeed: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FriendFeed• Sheryl Sandberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sheryl-sandberg-5126652/• Jim Norris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/halfspin/• Paul Buchheit on X: https://x.com/paultoo• Sanjeev Singh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sanjeev-singh-20a1b72/• Barack Obama: https://www.obamalibrary.gov/obamas/president-barack-obama• Oprah Winfrey: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oprah_Winfrey• Ashton Kutcher: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashton_Kutcher• PayPal Mafia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PayPal_Mafia• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Warren Buffett on X: https://x.com/warrenbuffett• Unix: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix• Fortran: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortran• C: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C_(programming_language)• Python: https://www.python.org/• Perl: https://www.perl.org/• Rust: https://www.rust-lang.org/• Eleven Labs: https://elevenlabs.io/• The exact AI playbook (using MCPs, custom GPTs, Granola) that saved ElevenLabs $100k+ and helps them ship daily | Luke Harries (Head of Growth): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ai-marketing-stack• Confluent: https://www.confluent.io/• Databricks: https://www.databricks.com/• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com• Harvey: https://www.harvey.ai/• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Larry Summers’s website: https://larrysummers.com/• AutoCAD: https://www.autodesk.com/products/autocad/overview• Revit: https://www.autodesk.com/products/revit/• The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Pricing your AI product: Lessons from 400+ companies and 50 unicorns | Madhavan Ramanujam: https://lenny.substack.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam• Cursor: https://cursor.com/• CodeX: https://openai.com/codex/• Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-code• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• DirecTV: https://www.directv.com/• SiriusXM: https://www.siriusxm.com/• Wayfair: https://www.wayfair.com/• Akai: https://www.akaipro.com/• Chubbies Shorts: https://www.chubbiesshorts.com/• Weight Watchers: https://www.weightwatchers.com/• CLEAR: https://www.clearme.com/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• Building product at Stripe: craft, metrics, and customer obsession | Jeff Weinstein (Product lead): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-product-at-stripe-jeff-weinstein• Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/• ServiceNow: https://www.servicenow.com/• Adobe: https://www.adobe.com/• Jobs to be done: https://jobs-to-be-done.com/jobs-to-be-done-a-framework-for-customer-needs-c883cbf61c90• The ultimate guide to JTBD | Bob Moesta (co-creator of the framework): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-jtbd-bob-moesta• Inception: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/• Alan Kay’s quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/alan_kay_100831• Jobs at Sierra: https://sierra.ai/careers—Recommended books:• Monetizing Innovation: How Smart Companies Design the Product Around the Price: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Competing Against Luck: The Story of Innovation and Customer Choice: https://www.amazon.com/Competing-Against-Luck-Innovation-Customer/dp/0062435612• Endurance: Shackleton’s Incredible Voyage: https://www.amazon.com/Endurance-Shackletons-Incredible-Alfred-Lansing/dp/0465062881—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Madhavan Ramanujam is the world’s foremost expert on pricing and monetization strategy. As managing partner at Simon-Kucher, he helped over 250 companies, including 30 unicorns, architect their pricing strategies. He’s the author of the definitive book on pricing, Monetizing Innovation. Now he’s back with a sequel, Scaling Innovation, which reveals how to build enduring businesses by dominating both market share and wallet share. He recently left Simon-Kucher to launch his own fund, 49 Palms, focused on helping early-stage AI companies.In this conversation, we discuss:1. The 2x2 framework that identifies your optimal pricing model2. Why AI companies can capture 25% to 50% of value created, vs. 10% to 20% for traditional SaaS products3. Why popular AI coding tools may have already doomed themselves with underpricing4. The “give-and-get” framework top negotiators use to extract maximum value from every deal5. The negotiation strategy that helped one founder 4x their deal size overnight6. How to frame POCs as “business case creation” instead of technical demos (and why this changes everything)7. Why AI companies must get monetization right from day one—not “figure it out later”8. How companies like Intercom’s Fin and Sierra pioneered outcome-based pricing (charging $0.99 per AI resolution)9. The single question that reveals if your pricing is too complex—Brought to you by:Enterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growth: https://enterpret.com/lennyDX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity: https://getdx.com/lennyPersona—A global leader in digital identity verification: https://withpersona.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/pricing-and-scaling-your-ai-product-madhavan-ramanujam—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168109183/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Madhavan Ramanujam:• X: https://x.com/madhavansf• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/madhavansf/• Promo email for Scaling Innovation: promo@49palmsvc.com — If you’re purchasing more than five copies, send a screenshot of your receipt to enter Madhavan’s exclusive bundle raffle.—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Madhavan and his work(04:30) The core thesis of Scaling Innovation(09:20) Common traps founders fall into(12:06) Beautifully simple pricing(15:00) Mastering negotiations(26:51) Other strategies for effective pricing and monetization(27:35) How AI pricing is different(31:33) Handling POCs(36:25) The importance of mastering monetization(38:58) Choosing the right AI pricing model(43:13) Current trends in AI pricing(44:48) Strategizing for outcome-based models(50:23) Packaging strategies for scaling(51:37) Adapting pricing strategies over time(53:40) Key axioms for pricing success(58:00) Takeaways for founders(01:01:33) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• The art and science of pricing | Madhavan Ramanujam (Monetizing Innovation, Simon-Kucher): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-art-and-science-of-pricing-madhavan• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Sierra Finn: http://www.sierrafinn.com/• Chargeflow: https://www.chargeflow.io/• GitHub: https://github.com/• Intercom: https://www.intercom.com/• Warren Buffett’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11478913-if-you-ve-got-the-power-to-raise-prices-without-losing• Sierra: https://sierra.ai/• Clay Bavor on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/claybavor/• Mission: Impossible—The Final Reckoning: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt9603208/• Delphi: https://www.delphi.ai/• Dara Ladjevardian on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dara-ladjevardian/• Sam Spelsberg on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/samuel-spelsberg/• Lennybot: https://www.lennybot.com/• Granola: https://www.granola.ai/• Simon-Kucher: https://www.simon-kucher.com/• Josh Bloom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joshuabloompricingconsulting/—Recommended books:• Monetizing Innovation: How Smart Companies Design the Product Around the Price: https://www.amazon.com/Monetizing-Innovation-Companies-Design-Product/dp/1119240867• Scaling Innovation: How Smart Companies Architect Profitable Growth: https://www.amazon.com/dp/1119633060• Business Model Generation: A Handbook for Visionaries, Game Changers, and Challengers: https://www.amazon.com/Business-Model-Generation-Visionaries-Challengers/dp/0470876417• Thinking Fast and Slow: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Fast-Slow-Daniel-Kahneman/dp/0374533555/• Contagious: Why Things Catch On: https://www.amazon.com/Contagious-Things-Catch-Jonah-Berger/dp/1451686587/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Benjamin Mann is a co-founder of Anthropic, an AI startup dedicated to building aligned, safety-first AI systems. Prior to Anthropic, Ben was one of the architects of GPT-3 at OpenAI. He left OpenAI driven by the mission to ensure that AI benefits humanity. In this episode, Ben opens up about the accelerating progress in AI and the urgent need to steer it responsibly.In this conversation, we discuss:1. The inside story of leaving OpenAI with the entire safety team to start Anthropic2. How Meta’s $100M offers reveal the true market price of top AI talent3. Why AI progress is still accelerating (not plateauing), and how most people misjudge the exponential4. Ben’s “economic Turing test” for knowing when we’ve achieved AGI—and why it’s likely coming by 2027-20285. Why he believes 20% unemployment is inevitable6. The AI nightmare scenarios that concern him most—and how he believes we can still avoid them7. How focusing on AI safety created Claude’s beloved personality8. What three skills he’s teaching his kids instead of traditional academics—Brought to you by:Sauce—Turn customer pain into product revenue: https://sauce.app/lennyLucidLink—Real-time cloud storage for teams: https://www.lucidlink.com/lennyFin—The #1 AI agent for customer service: https://fin.ai/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropic-co-founder-benjamin-mann—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/168107911/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Ben Mann:• X: https://x.com/8enmann• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjamin-mann/• Website: https://benjmann.net/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Benjamin(04:43) The AI talent war(06:28) AI progress and scaling laws(10:50) Defining AGI and the economic Turing test(12:26) The impact of AI on jobs(17:45) Preparing for an AI future(24:05) Founding Anthropic(27:06) Balancing AI safety and progress(29:10) Constitutional AI and model alignment(34:21) The importance of AI safety(43:40) The risks of autonomous agents(45:40) Forecasting superintelligence(48:36) How hard is it to align AI?(53:19) Reinforcement learning from AI feedback (RLAIF)(57:03) AI's biggest bottlenecks(01:00:11) Personal reflections on responsibilities(01:02:36) Anthropic’s growth and innovations(01:07:48) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Dario Amodei on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dario-amodei-3934934/• Anthropic CEO: AI Could Wipe Out 50% of Entry-Level White Collar Jobs: https://www.marketingaiinstitute.com/blog/dario-amodei-ai-entry-level-jobs• Alexa+: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0DCCNHWV5• Azure: https://azure.microsoft.com/• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Opus 3: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-3-family• Claude’s Constitution: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claudes-constitution• Greg Brockman on X: https://x.com/gdb• Anthropic’s Responsible Scaling Policy: https://www.anthropic.com/news/anthropics-responsible-scaling-policy• Agentic Misalignment: How LLMs could be insider threats: https://www.anthropic.com/research/agentic-misalignment• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• AI prompt engineering in 2025: What works and what doesn’t | Sander Schulhoff (Learn Prompting, HackAPrompt): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/ai-prompt-engineering-in-2025-sander-schulhoff• Unitree: https://www.unitree.com/• Arthur C. Clarke: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke• How Reinforcement Learning from AI Feedback Works: https://www.assemblyai.com/blog/how-reinforcement-learning-from-ai-feedback-works• RLHF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reinforcement_learning_from_human_feedback• Jared Kaplan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jared-kaplan-645843213/• Moore’s law: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moore%27s_law• Machine Intelligence Research Institute: https://intelligence.org/• Raph Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/raphaeltlee/• “The Last Question”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question• Beth Barnes on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethmbarnes/• “The Last Question”: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Last_Question• Good Strategy, Bad Strategy | Richard Rumelt: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/good-strategy-bad-strategy-richard• Pantheon on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81937398• Ted Lasso on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/ted-lasso/umc.cmc.vtoh0mn0xn7t3c643xqonfzy• Kurzgesagt—In a Nutshell: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsXVk37bltHxD1rDPwtNM8Q• 5 tips to poop like a champion: https://8enmann.medium.com/5-tips-to-poop-like-a-champion-3292481a9651—Recommended books:• Superintelligence: Paths, Dangers, Strategies: https://www.amazon.com/Superintelligence-Dangers-Strategies-Nick-Bostrom/dp/0198739834• The Hacker and the State: Cyber Attacks and the New Normal of Geopolitics: https://www.amazon.com/Hacker-State-Attacks-Normal-Geopolitics/dp/0674987551• Replacing Guilt: Minding Our Way: https://www.amazon.com/Replacing-Guilt-Minding-Our-Way/dp/B086FTSB3Q• Good Strategy/Bad Strategy: The Difference and Why It Matters: https://www.amazon.com/Good-Strategy-Bad-Difference-Matters/dp/0307886239• The Alignment Problem: Machine Learning and Human Values: https://www.amazon.com/Alignment-Problem-Machine-Learning-Values/dp/0393635821—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Dan Shipper is the co-founder and CEO of Every. With just 15 people, Every publishes a daily AI newsletter, ships multiple AI products, and operates a million-dollar-a-year consulting arm—all while their engineers write virtually zero code. It’s the most radical example of AI-first operations, and Dan is a prolific writer who has become a leading voice on how AI is transforming the way we build and work.Learn:1. Why Dan thinks AI won’t steal jobs en masse—and may actually reshore many jobs to the U.S.2. The most underrated AI tool for non-programmers3. An inside look at Every’s AI-first workflow4. Why every company needs an “AI operations lead”5. How Dan’s team uses an arsenal of AI agents (Claude, Codex, “Friday,” “Charlie”) in parallel, treating each AI like a specialist with unique strengths6. Why generalists will thrive in an AI-first world, as rigid job titles blur and everyone becomes a “manager” of AI tools7. Dan’s playbook for making any company AI-first—from the CEO setting the example, to hosting internal prompt-sharing sessions, to upskilling teams on AI tools—Brought to you by:CodeRabbit—Cut code review time and bugs in half. Instantly: https://coderabbit.link/lennyDX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity: https://getdx.com/lennyPostHog—How developers build successful products: https://posthog.com/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-every-dan-shipper—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/167681269/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Dan Shipper:• X: https://x.com/danshipper• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danshipper/• Podcast: https://every.to/podcast—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Welcome and introduction(04:04) Hot takes on AI and job reshoring(07:06) The power of Claude Code for non-coders(14:35) The future of AI in business operations(18:45) AI’s role in enhancing human skills(22:26) The evolution of AI tools and their applications(25:40) Building an AI-first company(29:50) Innovative AI operations and team dynamics(35:35) Dan's AI stack(41:26) Compounding engineering(48:29) The impact of AI on learning and development(50:10) Accelerating career growth with AI(51:36) Revolutionizing code review and workflow(53:07) The importance of coding knowledge(57:26) Building AI-driven products(01:02:01) Innovative fundraising strategies(01:08:45) Consulting and AI adoption in companies(01:17:01) The allocation economy and future skills(01:20:12) The value of generalists in the AI age(01:24:07) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Claude Code: https://www.anthropic.com/claude-code• Gemini CLI: https://blog.google/technology/developers/introducing-gemini-cli-open-source-ai-agent/• Microsoft Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• Base44: https://base44.com/• Solo founder, $80M exit, 6 months: The Base44 bootstrapped startup success story | Maor Shlomo: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-base44-bootstrapped-startup-success-story-maor-shlomo• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Plato’s Argument Against Writing: https://fs.blog/an-old-argument-against-writing/• From ChatGPT to Instagram to Uber: The quiet architect behind the world’s most popular products | Peter Deng: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-quiet-architect-peter-deng• Granola: https://www.granola.ai/• Tobi Lutke’s post on X about context engineering: https://x.com/tobi/status/1935533422589399127• Tobi Lütke’s leadership playbook: Playing infinite games, operating from first principles, and maximizing human potential (founder and CEO of Shopify): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/tobi-lutkes-leadership-playbook• Every: https://every.to/• Cora: https://www.cora.computer/• Sparkle: https://makeitsparkle.co/• Spiral: https://spiral.computer/• Lex: https://lex.page/• Nathan Baschez on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nbashaw/• Kate Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kate-lee-506768/• Katie Parrott on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/katieparrott/• Animalz: https://www.animalz.co/• Rachel Woods on X: https://x.com/rachel_l_woods• Nityesh Agarwal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nityeshaga• Claude Opus 4: https://www.anthropic.com/claude/opus• Codex: https://openai.com/index/introducing-codex/• Superwhisper: https://superwhisper.com/• Wispr Flow: https://wisprflow.ai/• Notion: https://www.notion.com/• Kieran Klaassen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kieran-klaassen/• Friday: https://www.friday.run/• Charlie: https://www.gocharlie.ai/product/ai-agents/• Avengers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avengers_(Marvel_Cinematic_Universe)• Alex Duffy on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-d/• Danny Aziz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dannyaziz/• Dia: https://www.diabrowser.com/• Reid Hoffman’s website: https://www.reidhoffman.org/• Starting Line VC: https://www.startingline.vc/• Walleye Capital: https://walleyecapital.com/• At This $10 Billion Hedge Fund, Using AI Just Became Mandatory: https://every.to/podcast/at-this-10-billion-hedge-fund-using-ai-just-became-mandatory• Reflexive AI usage is now a baseline expectation at Shopify: https://x.com/tobi/status/1909251946235437514• Klarna CEO Sebastian Siemiatkowski on Getting AI to Do the Work of 700 Customer Service Reps: https://www.sequoiacap.com/podcast/training-data-sebastian-siemiatkowski/• The Pin Factory: https://www.adamsmithworks.org/pin_factory.html• Deadwood on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/deadwood• Joel Spolsky on X: https://x.com/spolsky• Jason Fried’s website: https://world.hey.com/jason• Jason Fried challenges your thinking on fundraising, goals, growth, and more: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/jason-fried-challenges-your-thinking• Sam Harris’s website: https://www.samharris.org/• Bill Simmons on X: https://x.com/billsimmons—Recommended books:• War and Peace: https://www.amazon.com/War-Peace-Vintage-Classics-Tolstoy/dp/1400079985• Anna Karenina: https://www.amazon.com/Anna-Karenina-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/0143035002• Playing and Reality: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Reality-Routledge-Classics-86/dp/0415345464• The Death of Ivan Ilyich: https://www.amazon.com/Death-Ivan-Ilyich-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/1468014315• A Swim in a Pond in the Rain: https://www.amazon.com/Swim-Pond-Rain-Russians-Writing/dp/1984856022• The Master and His Emissary: The Divided Brain and the Making of the Western World: https://www.amazon.com/Master-His-Emissary-Divided-Western/dp/0300245920/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky are the co-creators of the Design Sprint (the famous five-day product innovation process) and authors of the bestselling book Sprint. After decades of working with over 300 startups in the earliest stages, they discovered that most startups fail not because they can’t build, but because they build the wrong thing. The very beginning of a startup is your highest-leverage moment, and most teams waste months or years by skipping a few critical early questions. Jake and John developed the Foundation Sprint to help startups validate ideas and compress months of work into just two days.What you’ll learn:1. The step-by-step Foundation Sprint process that compresses three or four months of validation into two days—including templates you can use immediately2. Why differentiation is the #1 predictor of startup success (with the 2x2 framework that you can use with your team)3. The three fundamental questions every founder should answer before writing a line of code4. The “note and vote” technique that eliminates groupthink and gets honest answers from your colleagues5. The seven “magic lenses” for choosing between multiple product ideas6. The biggest mistake engineers make when building with AI tools7. The paradox of speed: why “building nothing first” can get you to product-market fit faster—Brought to you by:Brex—The banking solution for startups: https://www.brex.com/product/business-account?ref_code=bmk_dp_brand1H25_ln_new_fsParagon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want: https://www.useparagon.com/lennyCoda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace: https://coda.io/lenny—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-foundation-sprint-jake-knapp-and-john-zeratsky—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers):https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/167485876/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Jake Knapp:• X: https://twitter.com/jakek• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jake-knapp/• Website: https://jakeknapp.com/—Where to find John Zeratsky:• X: https://twitter.com/jazer• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/johnzeratsky/• Website: https://johnzeratsky.com/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky(04:41) Origins of the Design Sprint(11:06) The Foundation Sprint process(14:40) Phase one: The basics(16:57) Case study: Latchet(28:50) Phase two: Differentiation(36:24) The importance of differentiation(40:15) Thoughts on price differentiation(43:37) Case study: Mellow(46:04) Custom differentiators(49:30) The mini manifesto(52:02) Phase three: Approach to the project(54:50) Magic lenses activity(01:02:39) Prototyping and testing(01:10:00) Real-world examples and success stories(01:15:15) Motivation behind The Foundation Sprint(01:17:15) The outcome of the sprint: The founding hypothesis(01:19:28) The Design Sprint(01:28:19) The role of AI in prototyping(01:36:50) Final thoughts and resources—Referenced:• Introducing the Foundation Sprint: From the creators of the Design Sprint: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/introducing-the-foundation-sprint• Making time for what matters | Jake Knapp and John Zeratsky (authors of Sprint and Make Time, co-founders of Character Capital): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/making-time-for-what-matters-jake• Eli Blee-Goldman on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eli-blee-goldman/• Character Capital: https://www.character.vc/• Character Labs: https://www.character.vc/labs• Etsy: https://www.etsy.com/• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• Naming expert shares the process behind creating billion-dollar brand names like Azure, Vercel, Windsurf, Sonos, Blackberry, and Impossible Burger | David Placek (Lexicon Branding): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/naming-expert-david-placek• Sonos: https://www.sonos.com/• Vercel: https://vercel.com/• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/• April Dunford on product positioning, segmentation, and optimizing your sales process: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/april-dunford-on-product-positioning• Positioning: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/positioning• 10 things we know to be true: https://about.google/company-info/philosophy/• Gandalf: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gandalf• Frodo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frodo_Baggins• Mordor: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mordor• 35 years of product design wisdom from Apple, Disney, Pinterest, and beyond | Bob Baxley: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/35-years-of-product-design-wisdom-bob-baxley• The Primal Mark: How the Beginning Shapes the End in the Development of Creative Ideas: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/primal-mark-how-beginning-shapes-end-development-creative-ideas• Base44: https://base44.com/• Solo founder, $80M exit, 6 months: The Base44 bootstrapped startup success story | Maor Shlomo: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-base44-bootstrapped-startup-success-story-maor-shlomo• Google Meet: https://meet.google.com/• Blue Bottle Coffee: https://bluebottlecoffee.com• Reclaim: https://reclaim.ai/• The official Foundation Sprint + Design Sprint template: https://www.character.vc/miro-template• Rippling: https://www.rippling.com/• Latchet: https://latchet.com/• Mellow: http://getmellow.com/• AxionOrbital: https://axionorbital.space/—Recommended books:• Sprint: How to Solve Big Problems and Test New Ideas in Just Five Days: https://www.amazon.com/Sprint-audiobook/dp/B019R2DQIY• Make Time: How to Focus on What Matters Every Day: https://www.amazon.com/Make-Time-Focus-Matters-Every/dp/0525572422• Click: How to Make What People Want: https://www.amazon.com/Click-Make-What-People-Want/dp/1668072114Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Maor Shlomo is the founder of Base44, an AI-powered app builder that he bootstrapped to an over $80 million acquisition by Wix in just six months. As a solo founder (with severe ADHD), he hit $1 million ARR just three weeks after launch and grew the product to more than 400,000 users, all while navigating two wars in Israel and never raising a dollar of outside funding.What you’ll learn:1. The growth playbook that took Base44 from three friends to 400,000 users without spending any money on marketing2. How he hasn’t written a single line of front-end code in three months—and how to structure your code repository to make it easier for AI to write your code3. His AI productivity stack that allowed him to compete against heavily funded competitors4. Why being a solo founder in AI might be the ultimate advantage (and the wedding story that almost killed the business)5. The story of signing the $80M acquisition deal while war broke out with Iran6. How to identify when to sell vs. stay independent (and why Maor chose acquisition despite being highly profitable)7. The counterintuitive product decision that tripled activation by removing a “helpful” feature8. How building in public on LinkedIn drove more growth than any paid channel—Brought to you by:Sauce—Turn customer pain into product revenue: https://sauce.app/lennyDscout—The UX platform to capture insights at every stage: from ideation to production: https://www.dscout.com/Contentsquare—Create better digital experiences: https://contentsquare.com/lenny/—Transcript: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-base44-bootstrapped-startup-success-story-maor-shlomo—My biggest takeaways (for paid newsletter subscribers): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/i/167384119/my-biggest-takeaways-from-this-conversation—Where to find Maor Shlomo:• X: https://x.com/ms_base44• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/maor-shlomo-1088b4144/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Maor and Base44(08:16) The origin story: how Base44 came to be(14:55) Bootstrapping and solo founding: challenges and insights(22:52) Productivity hacks and tech stack for solo founders(27:23) How to get started using Base44(28:47) Thoughts on raising money(34:05) Distribution in the age of AI(36:09) Ambition and goals(40:05) Growth strategies: from first users to thousands(51:32) Building in public(57:42) The solo founder journey(01:00:23) Community support(01:03:23) Hackathons and partnerships(01:06:42) The importance of velocity in product development(01:08:20) Technical stack and infrastructure insights(01:15:24) Activation lessons(01:18:19) The acquisition journey with Wix(01:25:14) Final thoughts and advice for founders—Referenced:• Base44: https://base44.com/• Retool: https://retool.com/• Tzofim: https://www.israelscouts.org/• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/• RescueTime: https://www.rescuetime.com/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• Wix: https://www.wix.com/• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Snowflake: https://www.snowflake.com• Yoav Orlev on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/yoav-orlev-4a044b72• WhatsApp: https://www.whatsapp.com/• Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/• Google: https://about.google/• MongoDB: https://www.mongodb.com/• Deloitte: https://www.deloitte.com/• Render: Render.com• Claude 4: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-4• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app• Cloudflare: https://www.cloudflare.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. To hear more, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com

Andrew Wilkinson is the co‑founder of Tiny, a holding company that quietly owns more than three dozen profitable internet and consumer brands, including Dribbble and the AeroPress coffee maker. Starting as a teenage barista and web designer, he’s created a portfolio approaching $300 million in yearly sales (and he was personally worth over $1 billion at one point)—all without ever raising venture capital.In this conversation, you’ll learn:1. The “fish where the fish are” framework for spotting high‑margin niches no one else notices2. The exact agent stack (Lindy, Replit, Limitless, and more) that supercharges Andrew’s day-to-day productivity (and has replaced his assistant)3. How Andrew evaluates companies in less than 15 minutes using Buffett‑style moats and “lazy leadership”4. Telltale signs you should shut down (or never start) that startup idea5. His journey from crippling anxiety to clarity through SSRIs and ADHD medication6. His prediction that most knowledge work will be automated—and the skills to teach your kids now—Brought to you by:Sauce—Turn customer pain into product revenueEnterpret—Transform customer feedback into product growthMiro—A collaborative visual platform where your best work comes to life—Where to find Andrew Wilkinson:• X: https://x.com/awilkinson• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/awilkinson/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Andrew Wilkinson(04:07) Finding the right business idea(07:18) Avoiding common business pitfalls(11:58) Finding your unfair advantage(17:08) Fish where the fish are(20:08) Why boring is good(25:30) Bootstrapping vs. venture capital(31:20) Lessons from acquiring and managing businesses(36:47) Avoiding people problems(42:39) Leveraging AI in business and life(49:30) The Limitless device(53:13) Job displacement and AI’s future impact(58:20) Advice for new grads(01:02:50) Parenting in the age of AI(01:05:26) The pursuit of happiness beyond wealth(01:10:10) Mental health and medication(01:16:45) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Andrew’s post on X with the Charlie Munger quote: https://x.com/awilkinson/status/1265653805443506182• Metalab: https://www.metalab.com/• Letterboxd: https://letterboxd.com/• AeroPress: https://aeropress.com/• Brian Armstrong on X: https://x.com/brian_armstrong• Warren Buffett’s quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/931119/Warren-Buffett-I-am-a-better-investor-because-I-am-a-businessman-and-a-better-businessman• Flow: https://www.getflow.com/• Instacart: https://www.instacart.com/• Things: https://culturedcode.com/things/• Dustin Moskovitz on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dmoskov/• Salesforce: https://www.salesforce.com/• Serato: https://serato.com/• Chris Sparling on X: https://x.com/_sparling_• Lindy: https://www.lindy.ai/• Replit: https://replit.com/• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• David Ogilvy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ogilvy_(businessman)• Malcolm Gladwell’s website: https://www.gladwellbooks.com/• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Limitless: https://www.limitless.ai/• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/• Claude: https://claude.ai/• ChatGPT: https://chatgpt.com/• Gemini: https://gemini.google.com/app• William Gibson’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/681-the-future-is-already-here-it-s-just-not-evenly• Palm Treo: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_Treo• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Dario Amodei on X: https://x.com/darioamodei• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• Challengers on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/movie/challengers/umc.cmc.53cuz33n4e74ixj8whccj87oc• Matic vacuum: https://maticrobots.com/• Jerzy Gregorek’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/8652595-hard-choices-easy-life-easy-choices-hard-life• Tiny: https://www.tiny.com/• Dribbble: https://dribbble.com/—Recommended books:• The Laws of Human Nature: https://www.amazon.com/Laws-Human-Nature-Robert-Greene/dp/0525428143• How to Get Rich: One of the World’s Greatest Entrepreneurs Shares His Secrets: https://www.amazon.com/How-Get-Rich-Greatest-Entrepreneurs/dp/1591842719—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

David Placek is the founder of Lexicon Branding, a company that focuses exclusively on the development of brand names for competitive advantage. Lexicon is behind iconic names such as Sonos, Microsoft’s Azure, Windsurf, Vercel, Impossible Foods, BlackBerry, Intel’s Pentium, Apple’s PowerBook, and Swiffer. Over 40 years, David’s team has named nearly 4,000 brands and companies, employing over 250 linguists and pioneering naming innovation.What you’ll learn:1. The three-step process that generated names like Windsurf and Vercel2. How a name can give you the edge that no marketing budget can buy3. Why you won’t “know it when you see it”4. Why Microsoft called Azure “a dumb name” before it became their billion-dollar cloud platform5. Why polarizing opinions are the strongest signal that you’ve found the right name6. How every letter of the alphabet creates a specific psychological vibration7. The diamond framework: a 4-step process any founder can use to find their perfect name8. Why domain names don’t matter anymore in the age of AI—Brought to you by:WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUsStripe—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenueOneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster—Where to find David Placek:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/david-placek-05a82/• Website: https://www.lexiconbranding.com—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to David and Lexicon Branding(04:44) The story of Sonos(09:27) The psychology of naming(11:33) The initial resistance to Microsoft's Azure(14:35) The importance of a great brand name(18:11) The three steps of naming: create, invent, implement(28:23) Qualities of great brand name creators(31:24) How long the naming process takes(32:12) The Windsurf case study(36:10) Naming in the AI era(39:37) When to change your name(43:10) The role of linguists(45:54) The power of letters in branding(48:15) The Vercel case study(50:12) The implementation phase(52:52) Client management and market success(55:16) The diamond exercise(01:04:23) Suspending judgment(01:07:31) Polarization and boldness(01:11:01) Domain names(01:12:48) Final thoughts and lightning round—Referenced:• PowerBook: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PowerBook• Pentium: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium• BlackBerry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry• Swiffer: https://www.swiffer.com/• Impossible Burger: https://impossiblefoods.com/• Vercel: https://vercel.com/• Windsurf: https://windsurf.com/• CapCut: https://www.capcut.com/• Azure: https://azure.microsoft.com/• Sonos: https://www.sonos.com/• John MacFarlane on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/john-macfarlane-08a8aa20/• Harry Potter: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Potter_(film_series)• The Call of the Wild: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Call_of_the_Wild• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Sound symbolism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_symbolism• Anduril: https://www.anduril.com/• Anthropic: https://www.anthropic.com/• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Y Combinator: https://www.ycombinator.com/• Chevrolet Corvette: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette• Viagra: https://www.viagra.com/• In vino veritas: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/In_vino_veritas• Infoseek: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infoseek• Andy Grove: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrew_Grove• Churchill at War on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/81609374• Yellowstone on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Yellowstone-Season-1/dp/B07D7FBB8Z• 1883 on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/1883-Season-1/dp/B0B8JTS8QW• 1923 on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/1923/• Taylor Sheridan on X: https://x.com/taylorSheridan• Hardy fly rods: https://www.hardyfishing.com/collections/fly-rods• T.E. Lawrence quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/11340-all-men-dream-but-not-equally-those-who-dream-by• Lawrence of Arabia: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0056172/• DreamWorks: https://www.dreamworks.com/—Recommended books:• Thucydides’ Melian Dialogue: Commentary, Text, and Vocabulary: https://www.amazon.com/Thucydides-Melian-Dialogue-Commentary-Vocabulary/dp/0692772367• Resilience: Hard-Won Wisdom for Living a Better Life: https://www.amazon.com/Resilience-Hard-Won-Wisdom-Living-Better/dp/054432398X/• Churchill: Walking with Destiny: https://www.amazon.com/Churchill-Walking-Destiny-Andrew-Roberts/dp/1101980990—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Peter Deng has led product teams at OpenAI, Instagram, Uber, Facebook, Airtable, and Oculus and helped build products used by billions—including Facebook’s News Feed, the standalone Messenger app, Instagram filters, Uber Reserve, ChatGPT, and more. Currently he’s investing in early-stage founders at Felicis. In this episode, Peter dives into his most valuable lessons from building and scaling some of tech’s most iconic products and companies.What you’ll learn:1. Peter’s one‑sentence test for hiring superstars2. Why your product (probably) doesn’t matter3. Why you don’t need a tech breakthrough to build a huge business4. The five PM archetypes, and how to build a team of Avengers5. Counterintuitive lessons on growing products from 0 to 1, and 1 to 1006. The importance of data flywheels and workflows—Brought to you by:Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers wantPragmatic Institute—Industry‑recognized product, marketing, and AI training and certificationsContentsquare—Create better digital experiences—Where to find Peter Deng:• X: https://x.com/pxd• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/peterxdeng/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Peter Deng(05:41) AI and AGI insights(11:35) The future of education with AI(16:53) The power of language in leadership(21:01) Building iconic products(36:44) Scaling from zero to 100(41:56) Balancing short- and long-term goals(47:12) Creating a healthy tension in teams(50:02) The five archetypes of product managers(55:39) Primary and secondary archetypes(58:47) Hiring for growth mindset and autonomy(01:15:52) Effective management and communication strategies(01:19:23) Presentation advice and self-advocacy(01:25:50) Balancing craft and practicality in product management(01:30:40) The importance of empathy in design thinking(01:35:45) Career decisions and learning opportunities(01:42:05) Lessons from product failures(01:45:42) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• OpenAI: https://openai.com/• Artificial general intelligence (AGI): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_general_intelligence• Head of ChatGPT answers philosophical questions about AI at SXSW 2024 with SignalFire’s Josh Constine: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mgbgI0R6XCw• Professors Are Using A.I., Too. Now What?: https://www.npr.org/2025/05/21/1252663599/kashmir-hill-ai#:~:text=Now%20What• Herbert H. Clark: https://web.stanford.edu/~clark/• Russian speakers get the blues: https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn11759-russian-speakers-get-the-blues/• Ilya Sutskever (OpenAI Chief Scientist)—Building AGI, Alignment, Future Models, Spies, Microsoft, Taiwan, & Enlightenment: https://www.dwarkesh.com/p/ilya-sutskever• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• Kevin Systrom on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevinsystrom/• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Microsoft CPO: If you aren’t prototyping with AI, you’re doing it wrong | Aparna Chennapragada: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/microsoft-cpo-on-ai• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Granola: https://www.granola.ai/• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder and CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• OpenAI’s CPO on how AI changes must-have skills, moats, coding, startup playbooks, more | Kevin Weil (CPO at OpenAI, ex-Instagram, Twitter): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/kevin-weil-open-ai• Fidji Simo on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fidjisimo/• Airtable: https://www.airtable.com/• George Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geolee/• Andrew Chen on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrewchen/• Lauryn Motamedi on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/laurynmotamedi/• Twilio: https://www.twilio.com/• Nick Turley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/nicholasturley/• Ian Silber on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iansilber/• Thomas Dimson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/thomasdimson/• Joey Flynn on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joey-flynn-8291586b/• Ryan O’Rourke’s website: https://www.rourkery.com/• Joanne Jang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jangjoanne/• Behind the founder: Marc Benioff: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-founder-marc-benioff• Jill Hazelbaker on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jill-hazelbaker-3aa32422/• Guy Kawasaki’s website: https://guykawasaki.com/• Eric Antonow on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/antonow/• Sachin Kansal on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sachinkansal/• IDEO design thinking: https://designthinking.ideo.com/• The 7 Steps of the Design Thinking Process: https://www.ideou.com/blogs/inspiration/design-thinking-process• Linear’s secret to building beloved B2B products | Nan Yu (Head of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/linears-secret-to-building-beloved-b2b-products-nan-yu• Jeff Bezos’s quote: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27778175• Friendster: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Friendster• Myspace: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myspace• How LinkedIn became interesting: The inside story | Tomer Cohen (CPO at LinkedIn): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen• “Smile” by Jay-Z: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSumXG5_rs8&list=RDSSumXG5_rs8&start_radio=1• The Wire on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-wire• Felicis: https://www.felicis.com/—Recommended books:• Sapiens: A Brief History of Humankind: https://www.amazon.com/Sapiens-Humankind-Yuval-Noah-Harari/dp/0062316095• The Design of Everyday Things: https://www.amazon.com/Design-Everyday-Things-Revised-Expanded/dp/0465050654• The Silk Roads: A New History of the World: https://www.amazon.com/Silk-Roads-New-History-World/dp/1101912375—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Sander Schulhoff is the OG prompt engineer. He created the very first prompt engineering guide on the internet (two months before ChatGPT’s release) and recently wrote the most comprehensive study of prompt engineering ever conducted (co-authored with OpenAI, Microsoft, Google, Princeton, and Stanford), analyzing over 1,500 academic papers and covering more than 200 prompting techniques. He also partners with OpenAI to run what was the first and is the largest AI red teaming competition, HackAPrompt, which helps discover the most state-of-the-art prompt injection techniques (i.e. ways to get LLMS to do things it shouldn’t). Sander teaches AI red teaming on Maven, advises AI companies on security, and has educated millions of people on the most state-of-the-art prompt engineering techniques.In this episode, you’ll learn:1. The 5 most effective prompt engineering techniques2. Why “role prompting” and threatening the AI no longer works—and what to do instead3. The two types of prompt engineering: conversational and product/system prompts4. A primer on prompt injection and AI red teaming—including real jailbreak tactics that are still fooling top models5. Why AI agents and robots will be the next major security threat6. How to get started in AI red teaming and prompt engineering7. Practical defense to put in place for your AI products—Brought to you by:Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experimentsStripe—Helping companies of all sizes grow revenueVanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Where to find Sander Schulhoff:• X: https://x.com/sanderschulhoff• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/sander-schulhoff/• Website: https://sanderschulhoff.com/• AI Red Teaming and AI Security Masterclass on Maven: https://bit.ly/44lLSbC• Free Lightning Lesson “How to Secure Your AI System” on 6/24: https://bit.ly/4ld9vZL—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Sander Schulhoff(04:29) The importance of prompt engineering(06:30) Real-world applications and examples(10:54) Basic prompt engineering techniques(23:46) Advanced prompt engineering techniques(29:00) The role of context and additional information(39:24) Ensembling techniques and thought generation(49:48) Conversational techniques for better results(50:46) Introduction to prompt injection(52:27) AI red teaming and competitions(54:23) The growing importance of AI security(01:02:45) Techniques to bypass AI safeguards(01:05:21) Challenges in AI security and future outlook(01:18:33) Misalignment and AI's potential risks(01:25:03) Final thoughts and lightning round—Referenced:• Reid Hoffman’s tweet about using AI agents: https://x.com/reidhoffman/status/1930416063616884822• AI Engineer World’s Fair: https://www.ai.engineer/• What Is Artificial Social Intelligence?: https://learnprompting.org/blog/asi• Devin: https://devin.ai/• Cursor: https://www.cursor.com/• Inside Devin: The world’s first autonomous AI engineer that’s set to write 50% of its company’s code by end of year | Scott Wu (CEO and co-founder of Cognition): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-devin-scott-wu• The rise of Cursor: The $300M ARR AI tool that engineers can’t stop using | Michael Truell (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-rise-of-cursor-michael-truell• Granola: https://www.granola.ai/• Building Lovable: $10M ARR in 60 days with 15 people | Anton Osika (CEO and co-founder): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-lovable-anton-osika• Inside Bolt: From near-death to ~$40m ARR in 5 months—one of the fastest-growing products in history | Eric Simons (founder & CEO of StackBlitz): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/inside-bolt-eric-simons• Behind the product: Replit | Amjad Masad (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/behind-the-product-replit-amjad-masad• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• Technique #3: Examples in Prompts: From Zero-Shot to Few-Shot: https://learnprompting.org/docs/basics/few_shot?srsltid=AfmBOor2owyGXtzJZ8n0fJVCctM7UPZgZmH-mBuxRW4t9-kkaMd3LJVv• The Prompt Report: Insights from the Most Comprehensive Study of Prompting Ever Done: https://learnprompting.org/blog/the_prompt_report?srsltid=AfmBOoo7CRNNCtavzhyLbCMxc0LDmkSUakJ4P8XBaITbE6GXL1i2SvA0• State-of-the-Art Prompting for AI Agents | Y Combinator: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DL82mGde6wo• Use XML tags to structure your prompts: https://docs.anthropic.com/en/docs/build-with-claude/prompt-engineering/use-xml-tags• Role Prompting: https://learnprompting.org/docs/basics/roles?srsltid=AfmBOor2jcxJQvWBZyFa030Qt0fIIov3hSiWvI9VFyjO-Qp478EPJIU7• Is Role Prompting Effective?: https://learnprompting.org/blog/role_prompting?srsltid=AfmBOooiiyLD-0CsCYZ4m3SDhYOmtTyaTzeDo0FvK_i1x1gLM8MJS-Sn• Introduction to Decomposition Prompting Techniques: https://learnprompting.org/docs/advanced/decomposition/introduction?srsltid=AfmBOoojJmTQgBlmSlGYQ8kl-JPpVUlLKkL4YcFGS5u54JyeumUwlcBI• LLM Self-Evaluation: https://learnprompting.org/docs/reliability/lm_self_eval• Philip Resnik on X: https://x.com/psresnik• Anthropic’s CPO on what comes next | Mike Krieger (co-founder of Instagram): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/anthropics-cpo-heres-what-comes-next• Introduction to Ensembling Prompting: https://learnprompting.org/docs/advanced/ensembling/introduction?srsltid=AfmBOooGSyqsrjnEbXSYoKpG0ZlpT278NHQA6Fd8gMvNTJlWu7-qEYzh• Random forest: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Random_forest• Chain-of-Thought Prompting: https://learnprompting.org/docs/intermediate/chain_of_thought?srsltid=AfmBOoqwE7SXlluy2sx_QY_VOKduyBplWtIWKEJaD6FkJW3TqeKPSJfx• Prompt Injecting: https://learnprompting.org/docs/prompt_hacking/injection?srsltid=AfmBOoqGgqbfXStrD6vlw5jy8HhEaESgGo2e57jyWL8lkZKktt_P6Zvn• Announcing HackAPrompt 2.0: The World’s Largest AI Red-Teaming Hackathon: https://learnprompting.org/blog/announce-hackaprompt-2?srsltid=AfmBOopXKsHxy4aUtsvPCUtEu7x74NCAEnlTIdNzo7nfMDVwZ9ilTlkp• Infant with rare, incurable disease is first to successfully receive personalized gene therapy treatment: https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/infant-rare-incurable-disease-first-successfully-receive-personalized-gene-therapy-treatment• Building a magical AI code editor used by over 1 million developers in four months: The untold story of Windsurf | Varun Mohan (co-founder and CEO): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-untold-story-of-windsurf-varun-mohan• Copilot: https://copilot.microsoft.com/chats/rcxhzvKgZvz8ajUrKdBtX• GitHub Copilot: https://github.com/features/copilot• Defensive Measures: https://learnprompting.org/docs/prompt_hacking/defensive_measures/introduction• Sam Altman on X: https://x.com/sama• Three Laws of Robotics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Laws_of_Robotics• Anthropic’s new AI model turns to blackmail when engineers try to take it offline: https://techcrunch.com/2025/05/22/anthropics-new-ai-model-turns-to-blackmail-when-engineers-try-to-take-it-offline/• Palisade Research: https://palisaderesearch.org/• When AI Thinks It Will Lose, It Sometimes Cheats, Study Finds: https://time.com/7259395/ai-chess-cheating-palisade-research/• A.I. Chatbots Defeated Doctors at Diagnosing Illness: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/17/health/chatgpt-ai-doctors-diagnosis.html• 1883 on Paramount+: https://www.paramountplus.com/shows/1883/• Black Mirror on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/70264888• Daylight Computer: https://daylightcomputer.com/• Theodore Roosevelt’s quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/622252-i-wish-to-preach-not-the-doctrine-of-ignoble-ease• HackAPrompt 2.0: https://www.hackaprompt.com/—Recommended books:• Ender’s Game: https://www.amazon.com/Enders-Ender-Quintet-Orson-Scott/dp/0812550706• The River of Doubt: Theodore Roosevelt’s Darkest Journey: https://www.amazon.com/River-Doubt-Theodore-Roosevelts-Darkest/dp/0767913736—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Hilary Gridley is the Head of Core Product at WHOOP and a passionate thought leader in leveraging AI to elevate product teams and management practices. With extensive experience tackling challenging problems in regulated industries and high-stakes environments, Hilary emphasizes the importance of building resilience and adaptability within teams. Previously, she was a senior director of product at Big Health and a senior product marketing manager at Dropbox.In this episode, you’ll learn:• How to teach your team to be able to “take a punch”• Specific tactics to counter negative perceptions and reframe setbacks productively• Powerful behavioral strategies to form positive habits• Practical approaches for creating space in your workday to encourage creativity and deep thinking• The underestimated potential of AI in accelerating your personal and professional growth• Why you’re not the protagonist at your company (and why that’s liberating)• How WHOOP uses reward loops to drive real behavior change—Brought to you by:WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUsPersona—A global leader in digital identity verificationAttio—The powerful, flexible CRM for fast-growing startups—Where to find Hilary Gridley:• X: https://x.com/yourgirlhils• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hilarygridley/• Newsletter: https://hils.substack.com/• Maven course: https://maven.com/hilary-gridley/ai-powered-people-management—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Hilary’s background(04:31) Teaching teams to handle criticism and setbacks(17:57) Behavioral activation and mental health in the workplace(22:59) The importance of putting yourself out there(27:51) Transparency and communication in leadership(38:10) How to respectfully disagree with your manager(41:49) How to use “magic questions” to decode how people think(49:54) Why you’re not the protagonist at your company(52:48) Aligning with the CEO's vision(01:01:02) Building effective habits(01:11:14) Promoting team well-being(01:14:28) Creating space for creativity(01:20:45) AI’s role in accelerating learning(01:30:35) Pivotal career moments(01:37:21) Lessons from failure(01:39:49) Exciting new features of WHOOP 5.0(01:44:19) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• How to become a supermanager with AI: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-supermanager-with• How custom GPTs can make you a better manager | Hilary Gridley (Head of Core Product at Whoop): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-custom-gpts-can-make-you-a-better-manager• WHOOP: https://www.whoop.com/• Big Health: https://www.bighealth.com/• What is behavioral activation?: https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/behavioral-activation• Will Ahmed on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/willahmed/• Joe Gebbia on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jgebbia/• Zach Abrams on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/zacharyabrams/• Coinbase: https://www.coinbase.com/• Bridge: https://www.bridge.xyz/• Stripe: https://stripe.com/• The paths to power: How to grow your influence and advance your career | Jeffrey Pfeffer (author of 7 Rules of Power, professor at Stanford GSB): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-paths-to-power-jeffrey-pfeffer• Paths to Power course: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/Pfeffer-OB377-Course-Outline-2018.pdf• VO₂ max: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VO2_max• Peter Attia on X: https://x.com/PeterAttiaMD• Hilary Gridley’s 30 days of GPT: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1zJ4rbi9YcQuGqGxc6-AQD0-44oT9l4Eyono0AdpgJbA/edit?gid=0#gid=0• The Handle Bar in Boston: https://www.thehandlebarstudios.com/ourstudios/charlestown• From chalkboards to chatbots: Transforming learning in Nigeria, one prompt at a time: https://blogs.worldbank.org/en/education/From-chalkboards-to-chatbots-Transforming-learning-in-Nigeria• Product Management Logic Coach GPT: https://chatgpt.com/g/g-673290301700819084afa36bdbcdfa3b-product-management-logic-coach• Dropbox: https://www.dropbox.com/• WHOOP Advanced Labs: https://www.whoop.com/us/en/waitlist/?srsltid=AfmBOor2pP5qC3n7I23Z0ZIrYE99CjAKT9xSHQxbuyxmz_wFUBGH3e-n• Negative capability: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_capability• John Keats: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Keats• The Rehearsal: https://www.hbo.com/the-rehearsal• Zwift: https://www.zwift.com/• Beavis and Butthead Do ‘Creep’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv_gSmH0Ieg• “Sea Grapes” by Derek Walcott: https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/57111/sea-grapes• Free month of WHOOP: https://join.whoop.com/us/en/hilary/—Recommended books:• 7 Rules of Power: https://jeffreypfeffer.com/books/7-rules-of-power/• Outlive: The Science and Art of Longevity: https://www.amazon.com/Outlive-Longevity-Peter-Attia-MD/dp/0593236599• East of Eden: https://www.amazon.com/East-Eden-John-Steinbeck-Centennial/dp/0142004235• The Sun Also Rises: https://www.amazon.com/Sun-Also-Rises-Hemingway-Library/dp/1501121960/• Anna Karenina: https://www.amazon.com/Anna-Karenina-Leo-Tolstoy/dp/0143035002—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Bob Baxley is a design leader who has shaped products used by billions at Apple, Pinterest, Yahoo, and ThoughtSpot. During his eight years at Apple, he led design for the online store and the App Store, and witnessed the iPhone’s transformative launch while working under Steve Jobs. A student of history turned software craftsman, Bob discovered his calling after exploring photography, filmmaking, and music, ultimately recognizing software as the most powerful creative medium of our time. Bob champions the moral obligation designers have to reduce frustration in people’s daily digital interactions.What you’ll learn:• Why design should report to engineering, not product• The “Beatles principle”—why the best products come from teams of 4 to 6, not 40 to 60• How to create design tenets vs. principles (with real examples)• The counterintuitive reason to delay drawing or prototyping as long as possible• Why software is fundamentally a medium, like film or music (not just a tool)• Why Bob “bounced off the culture” at Pinterest, and lessons from failure• The lunar landing story that teaches us about championing radical ideas• How to evaluate if a company truly values design before joining• The moral obligation of software makers to build great products—This entire episode is brought to you by Stripe—helping companies of all sizes grow revenue.—Where to find Bob Baxley:• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/baxley/• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bbaxley/• Website: http://www.bobbaxley.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Bob Baxley(03:52) Apple's lasting culture(06:15) Navigating unique company cultures(13:19) Finding a company that truly values your role(15:46) What is design?(17:17) How to help founders understand the value of design(23:08) How to align product managers and designers(26:31) Design reporting to engineering(30:54) Integrating engineers early in the design process(33:43) The maker mindset(35:14) Challenging the assumption that design is time-intensive(38:04) Design tenets vs. design principles(45:25) The moral obligation of great design(51:48) Understanding software as a medium(01:01:20) Reducing ambiguity for product teams(01:07:04) Giving designers space for creativity(01:08:48) The "primal mark" concept(01:12:05) AI prototyping tools: benefits and risks(01:17:00) AI as a life coach(01:21:22) Life lessons from the Apollo program(01:28:24) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Steve Jobs: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Jobs• Walt Disney: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walt_Disney• Pinterest: https://www.pinterest.com/• X: https://x.com/• Uber: https://www.uber.com/• Airbnb: https://www.airbnb.com/• Slack: https://slack.com/• Ed Catmull on X: https://x.com/edcatmull• John Lasseter on X: https://x.com/johnlasseter5• Apple patented a pizza box, for pizzas: https://www.theverge.com/2017/5/16/15646154/apple-pizza-box-patent-come-on• Humane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humane_Inc.• Jony Ive: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jony_Ive• Tony Fadell on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tonyfadell/• Hiroki Asai on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hiroki-asai-a44137110/• Tim Cook on X: https://x.com/tim_cook• ThoughtSpot: https://www.thoughtspot.com/• Ben Silbermann on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/silbermann/• Ajeet Singh on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ajeetsinghmann/• Honeywell: https://www.honeywell.com• IDEO: https://www.ideo.com/• Nutanix: https://www.nutanix.com/• Lego: https://www.lego.com/• Leica: https://leica-camera.com/• Porsche: https://www.porsche.com/• Patagonia: https://www.patagonia.com• Brian Eno’s website: https://www.brian-eno.net/• Scenius: why creatives are stronger together: https://thecreativelife.net/scenius/• The Beatles website: https://www.thebeatles.com/• Disneyland: https://disneyland.disney.go.com/destinations/disneyland/• Tomorrowland: https://disneyland.disney.go.com/destinations/disneyland/tomorrowland/• Unconventional product lessons from Binance, N26, Google, more | Mayur Kamat (CPO at N26, ex-Binance Head of Product): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unorthodox-product-lessons-from-n26-and-more• Larry Page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Larry_Page• Sergey Brin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sergey_Brin• Design Principles: https://principles.design/• Tableau: https://www.tableau.com/• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Target self-checkout: https://corporate.target.com/press/fact-sheet/2024/03/checkout-improvements• Everyone’s an engineer now: Inside v0’s mission to create a hundred million builders | Guillermo Rauch (founder and CEO of Vercel, creators of v0 and Next.js): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/everyones-an-engineer-now-guillermo-rauch• eBay: https://www.ebay.com/• Williams Sonoma: https://www.williams-sonoma.com/• Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/• Monument to a Dead Child | Raw Data: https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/monument-to-a-dead-child/id1042137974• Toast: https://pos.toasttab.com/• The Primal Mark: How the Beginning Shapes the End in the Development of Creative Ideas: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/publications/primal-mark-how-beginning-shapes-end-development-creative-ideas• The Plant: https://pixar.fandom.com/wiki/The_Plant• Microsoft CPO: If you aren’t prototyping with AI you’re doing it wrong | Aparna Chennapragada: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/microsoft-cpo-on-ai• How have I been complicit in creating the conditions I say I don’t want? | Jerry Colonna (CEO of Reboot, executive coach, former VC): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/jerry-colonna• Joff Redfern on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mejoff/• John C. Houbolt: https://www.nasa.gov/centers-and-facilities/langley/john-c-houbolt/• The Apollo program: https://www.nasa.gov/the-apollo-program/• Archive clip: JFK at Rice University, Sept. 12, 1962—“We choose to go to the moon”: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXqlziZV63k• Alan Shepard: https://www.nasa.gov/former-astronaut-alan-shepard/\• Blue Origin: https://www.blueorigin.com/• Yuri Gagarin: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Gagarin• Wernher von Braun: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wernher_von_Braun• Yuri Kondratyuk: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yuri_Kondratyuk• John Houbolt’s memo: https://space.stackexchange.com/questions/2823/text-of-john-houbolts-letter-proposing-lunar-orbit-rendezvous-for-apollo• Severance on AppleTV+: https://tv.apple.com/us/show/severance/umc.cmc.1srk2goyh2q2zdxcx605w8vtx• Lawrence of Arabia on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Lawrence-Arabia-Peter-OToole/dp/B0088OINTU• Leica M6: https://leica-camera.com/en-US/photography/cameras/m/m6• Habitica: https://habitica.com/static/home• Andor on Disney+: https://www.disneyplus.com/browse/entity-faba988a-a9f5-45f2-a074-0775a7d6f67a• Edward Tufte quote: https://quotefancy.com/quote/1449650/Edward-Tufte-Good-design-is-clear-thinking-made-visible-bad-design-is-stupidity-made• Ansel Adams quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/ansel_adams_106035• It Takes a Village to Determine the Origins of an African Proverb: https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2016/07/30/487925796/it-takes-a-village-to-determine-the-origins-of-an-african-proverb• Henry Modisett on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/henrymodisett/• Perplexity: https://www.perplexity.ai/• Golden State Warriors: https://www.nba.com/warriors/• Steph Curry: https://www.espn.com/nba/player/_/id/3975/stephen-curry—Recommended books:• From Counterculture to Cyberculture: Stewart Brand, the Whole Earth Network, and the Rise of Digital Utopianism: https://www.amazon.com/Counterculture-Cyberculture-Stewart-Network-Utopianism/dp/0226817423• Hare Brain, Tortoise Mind: How Intelligence Increases When You Think Less: https://www.amazon.com/Hare-Brain-Tortoise-Mind-Intelligence/dp/0060955414• The Elements of Typographic Style: https://www.amazon.com/Elements-Typographic-Style-Robert-Bringhurst/dp/0881791326• Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance: An Inquiry into Values: https://www.amazon.com/Zen-Art-Motorcycle-Maintenance-Inquiry/dp/0060589469• Time and the Art of Living: https://www.amazon.com/Time-Art-Living-Robert-Grudin/dp/0062503553/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe