Lenny's Podcast: Product | Growth | Career

Archie Abrams is the VP of Product and Head of Growth at Shopify, where he leads a 600+ person growth org across product, design, engineering, data, ops, and growth marketing. Shopify powers over 10% of e-commerce in the United States, with $235 billion in GMV in 2023 (roughly the size of Finland’s economy). He previously led Consumer product and growth at Lyft and was at Udemy for 8 years as SVP of Product having joined the company when it was 10 people. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why Shopify optimizes for churn• Why the core product team doesn’t use metrics-based goals• Why they keep multi-year experiment holdouts• How they structure their growth team• The benefits of not having a CMO• Lessons learned about integrating sales into a product-led growth model• The power of discounting as a growth lever• Much more—Brought to you by:• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shopifys-growth-archie-abrams—Where to find Archie Abrams:• X: https://x.com/archieabrams• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/archie-abrams-b6aa8b6/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Archie’s background (02:30) Shopify’s impressive growth(06:17) Shopify’s unique approach to churn and retention(08:43) Monetization model and success metrics(11:08) Long-term experimentation and metrics(23:00) Examples of big wins that Archie’s team has shipped(26:42) Monetary friction(27:14) Metrics(29:47) Shopify’s growth team structure(33:03) Goal setting and forecasting(37:10) Examples of long-term results within Shopify(41:36) Shipping neutral experiments(42:05) Building a hundred-year company(48:04) Why Shopify doesn’t use KPIs(51:30) Shopify’s “Get s**t done” framework(54:30) Cross-team collaboration (58:48) The importance of an opinionated founder (01:01:12) Growth and sales integration(01:06:42) Shopify’s marketing structure(01:08:49) Insights on discounting from Udemy(01:11:09) Lightning round—Referenced:• Shopify: https://www.shopify.com/• Tobias Lütke on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tobiaslutke• Gross Merchandise Value: Calculation and Best Practices: https://www.shopify.com/retail/gross-merchandise-value• Brian Chesky’s new playbook: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/brian-cheskys-contrarian-approach• Glen Coates on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/glcoates• Harley Finkelstein on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/harleyf• Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/• Scientific Advertising: https://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Advertising-Original-Claude-Hopkins/dp/1640954252• Four-Minute Mile: https://www.amazon.com/Four-Minute-Mile-Roger-Bannister/dp/1493038753/• The Sopranos on HBO: https://www.hbo.com/the-sopranos• Suno: https://suno.com/—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Alistair Croll is the co-author of the best-selling book Lean Analytics and a longtime product manager, entrepreneur, and startup advisor. He was also instrumental in my starting a company, funding it, and helping us exit to Airbnb as part of his Year One Labs incubator. He’s chaired notable events such as O’Reilly’s Strata and UBM’s Cloud Connect and founded FWD50. In our conversation, we focus on lessons from an upcoming book by Alistair and his co-author, Emily Ross, Just Evil Enough, which is set for release in late 2024. We cover:• The importance of subversive marketing strategies in most startups’ growth• 11 specific subversive tactics that successful companies have used• Examples of companies like Netflix, Airbnb, and Tesla that used clever tactics early on• A framework for scanning your market for opportunities• The importance of finding your “zero-day marketing exploit”• How to apply these tactics ethically without actually being evil• Much more—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Hex—Helping teams ask and answer data questions by working together• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/just-evil-enough-alistair-croll—Where to find Alistair Croll:• X: https://x.com/acroll• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@alistairish• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alistaircroll/• Website: https://justevilenough.com/• Substack: https://acroll.substack.com/• Just Evil Enough on X: https://x.com/evilenough• Just Evil Enough on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/just-evil-enough/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Alistair’s background (02:00) The story behind Alistair and Emily’s book Just Evil Enough(06:17) Examples of subversive tactics(07:43) The importance of unfair advantage(10:36) The origin of the title “Just Evil Enough”(14:24) System awareness and novelty(19:16) How to use this thinking successfully (22:37) Normalizing disagreeable thinking (25:49) Recon canvas and market scanning(32:43) 11 tactics for subversive marketing(57:01) Implementing subversive strategies(01:05:01) Ethical considerations in marketing(01:08:19) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Shreyas Doshi is a former product leader at Stripe, Twitter, Google, and Yahoo. He’s now a full-time advisor and coach to founders and executives. Shreyas is known for his incredibly insightful writing on products, which has garnered him a passionate following in the PM and startup community. Last week, we sat down together at the very first Lenny and Friends Summit in San Francisco for a special live episode. We covered:• Why product leaders often feel overwhelmed with work, and how to combat it• The importance of developing good taste, and how to do it• How to reduce frustration in your product leadership role• The critical skill of truly listening as a leader• Common pitfalls in annual planning and decision-making• Lots of laughs—To learn more from Shreyas, check out these courses:• Improving Your Product Sense: https://bit.ly/product-sense• Managing Your PM Career: https://bit.ly/pm-career-course—Brought to you by:• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/shreyas-doshi-live—Where to find Shreyas Doshi:• X: https://x.com/shreyas• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/shreyasdoshi/• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@shreyas.threads• Linktree: https://linktr.ee/shreyasdoshi• YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@ShreyasDoshiVideos—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction(05:35) Question one: Why am I so busy?(10:08) Annual planning as an example(16:48) Tactical tips for staying less busy(25:20) Question two: Do I actually have good taste?(38:09) Question three: Why does my job feel so frustrating?(43:29) Question four: Am I really listening?(44:35) Closing remarks—Referenced:• Shreyas Doshi on pre-mortems, the LNO framework, the three levels of product work, why most execution problems are strategy problems, and ROI vs. opportunity cost thinking: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/episode-3-shreyas-doshi• LNO framework: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1492345184171945984• Time management techniques that actually work: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/time-management-techniques-that-actually• Part 2: Time management techniques that actually work: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/part-2-time-management-techniques• Eisenhower quote: https://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/dwight_d_eisenhower_164720• Stripe Connect: https://stripe.com/connect• Jeff Bezos explains one-way door decisions and two-way door decisions: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rxsdOQa_QkM• Spotify Is America’s Most Loved Workplace: https://www.newsweek.com/2021/10/29/spotify-americas-most-loved-workplace-1639982.html• Shreyas on “thinking is cheap”: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/shreyasdoshi_thinking-is-very-cheap-doing-is-very-expensive-activity-7225237421813116929-Qzi3/• Good Product Strategy, Bad Product Strategy from Shreyas: https://x.com/shreyas/status/1244810075908128768• Shreyas on annual planning and metrics:https://x.com/shreyas/status/1302423854095036421https://x.com/shreyas/status/1304628719374544896• Jensen Huang on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jenhsunhuang/• Patrick Mahomes’s website: https://www.adidas.com/us/patrick_mahomes• Virat Kohli: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virat_Kohli• Reversible and Irreversible Decisions: https://fs.blog/reversible-irreversible-decisions/• Fail fast: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fail_fast• 3 levels of product work: https://twitter.com/shreyas/status/1370248637842812936• Shakespeare quote: https://nosweatshakespeare.com/quotes/famous/to-thine-own-self-be-true/• Rick Rubin: Legendary Music Producer | Lex Fridman Podcast #275: https://Dwww.youtube.com/watch?v=H_szemxPcTI• Blake Burge on Rick Ruben: https://x.com/blakeaburge/status/1794470295828341222• Rick Rubin on X: https://x.com/RickRubin• Dee Hock on X: https://x.com/deewhock• Dee Hock quote on listening: https://x.com/shreyas/status/1351279398423465984• Peter Drucker: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Drucker• Peter Drucker quotes on listening: https://www.azquotes.com/author/4147-Peter_Drucker/tag/listening• Lenny’s first podcast recording: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YP_QghPLG-8• A Recipe to Become a Great Listener: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUQJkiDy2Ko—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Naomi Gleit is head of product at Meta, joined as employee #29, and is the longest-serving executive at Meta other than Mark Zuckerberg. She’s been at the center of some of the company’s most foundational products, including Facebook’s early growth team. In our conversation, we discuss:• How she originally landed at Facebook• The evolution of Facebook’s growth team and key metrics• Lessons from working with Mark Zuckerberg• Insights from Facebook’s activation metric and retention strategies• Leadership lessons and “Naomiisms” for effective product management• Tactics for creating extreme clarity in team communication• Advice for running effective meetings• More—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/metas-head-of-product-naomi-gleit—Where to find Naomi Gleit:• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/naomigleit• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/naomi-gleit/• Website: https://naomi.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Naomi Gleit(01:53) Naomi’s journey at Meta(06:18) Landing a job at Facebook(10:40) Becoming a product manager(13:40) Working as Head of Product at Meta(14:55) Insights on working with Mark Zuckerberg(20:04) Small Groups and “disagreeable givers”(24:28) The legendary growth team(33:45) Activation metrics and onboarding(43:44) Naomi’s leadership and PM philosophy(53:00) Canonical documents(55:55) Simplifying complex projects(01:00:33) Teen accounts: a case study(01:06:37) Running effective meetings(01:12:10) The importance of exercise(01:16:36) The role of a product manager(01:25:49) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Jessica Hische is a lettering artist and New York Times bestselling author based in Oakland, California. She specializes in typographical work for logos, film, books, and other commercial applications. Her clients include Wes Anderson, The United States Postal Service, Target, Hallmark, and Penguin Books, and her work has been featured in design and illustration annuals both in the U.S. and internationally. She’s been named a Print Magazine New Visual Artist (20 under 30), one of Forbes 30 under 30 in Art and Design, an ADC Young Gun, a “Person to Watch” by GD USA, and an Adweek “Creative 100.” In our conversation, we discuss:• My new logo and brand!• Jessica’s process for refreshing my logo/brand• Why most startups shouldn’t worry about their logo/brand• The psychology behind different typography choices• Balancing creativity with business needs in logo design• Jessica’s unique approach to pricing logo work• How AI is (and isn’t) impacting the design world• Jessica’s other creative pursuits, including children’s books and art supply stores—Brought to you by:• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS• OneSchema — Import CSV data 10x faster• Merge — A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/seeing-like-a-designer-jessica-hische—Where to find Jessica Hische:• Threads: https://www.threads.net/@jessicahische• Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jessicahische• Website: https://jessicahische.is—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Jessica’s background(01:32) The logo refresh process(09:45) When to refresh your logo(11:45) High-level overview(18:04) Approaching Lenny’s brand refresh(24:25) How to see like a designer(37:53) Lenny’s new logo: where we landed(44:07) Brand’s role in company success(50:04) Jessica’s flexible pricing strategies and collaborative design process(57:14) Balancing multiple creative projects(01:01:48) Using AI in creative work(01:05:50) Upcoming projects and final thoughts(01:08:24) Lightning round—Referenced:• Jeni’s: https://jenis.com• James Edmondson on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamestedmondson/• Figma Config: https://config.figma.com/• Helvetica: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helvetica• MyFonts: https://www.myfonts.com/• Geometric sans serif fonts: https://www.myfonts.com/pages/tags/geometric%20sans%20serif-fonts• The Rise of Fractional Executives: https://www.reforge.com/blog/leveraging-fractional-executives• JH&F: https://jessicahische.shop/pages/my-oakland-store• Drawling: https://drawling.shop/• Jessica Hische’s books on Amazon: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Jessica-Hische/author/B082XDN54V• Dreamforce: https://www.salesforce.com/dreamforce• Bezier handles: https://www.tella.tv/definition/bezier-handles• My First Book of Fancy Letters: https://www.amazon.com/My-First-Book-Fancy-Letters/dp/0593385012/r• The Creative Act: A Way of Being: https://www.amazon.com/Creative-Act-Way-Being/dp/0593652886/• Inside Paragraphs: Typographic Fundamentals: https://www.amazon.com/Inside-Paragraphs-Fundamentals-Cyrus-Highsmith/dp/1616899417• Just Kids: https://www.amazon.com/Just-Kids-Patti-Smith/dp/0060936223• Robert Mapplethorpe: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Mapplethorpe• The Emperor of All Maladies: A Biography of Cancer: https://www.amazon.com/Emperor-All-Maladies-Biography-Cancer/dp/1439170916/r• Severance on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Severance-Toby-Stephens/dp/B001ARYGCU• Penco brown bag stand: https://penco.jp/en/products/db079/• XOXO: https://xoxofest.com/• Mariame Kaba quotes: https://www.goodreads.com/author/quotes/8156101.Mariame_Kaba—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Anneka Gupta is the Chief Product Officer at Rubrik, a leading B2B cybersecurity company. She previously spent 11 years at LiveRamp, where she was the President and Head of Product and Platforms leading product development and go-to-market operations and strategy. Anneka also sits on the board of directors for Tinuiti and teaches product management at Stanford University. In our conversation, we discuss:• Navigating “founder mode” dynamics in organizations• Navigating difficult personalities and aligning teams• The PM skill of summarization• Giving and receiving hard feedback effectively• The value of a positive mindset• Tips for breaking into product management• Much more—Brought to you by:• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS• Command AI — AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Eppo — Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-more-strategic-anneka-gupta—Where to find Anneka Gupta:• X: https://x.com/annekagupta• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/annekagupta—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Anneka Gupta(01:43) Key mindsets for success(05:30) Managing energy for optimal performance(09:05) Founder mode(18:26) Becoming more strategic(27:54) The importance of decision-making(37:18) Navigating difficult personalities(41:38) Techniques for giving and receiving feedback(51:01) Transitioning into product management(54:56) Advice for aspiring product managers(59:39) Leveraging AI tools in product management(01:01:27) The power of a positive mindset(01:04:30) Lightning round—Referenced:• Founder Mode: https://paulgraham.com/foundermode.html• Building a long and meaningful career | Nikhyl Singhal (Meta, Google): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/building-a-long-and-meaningful-career• The Skip community: https://www.linkedin.com/company/skip-community/• Rubrik: https://www.rubrik.com/• 5 essential questions to craft a winning strategy | Roger Martin (author, advisor, speaker): https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-ultimate-guide-to-strategy-roger-martin• Playing to Win: How Strategy Really Works: https://www.amazon.com/Playing-Win-Strategy-Really-Works/dp/142218739X• Thinking like a gardener not a builder, organizing teams like slime mold, the adjacent possible, and other unconventional product advice | Alex Komoroske: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unconventional-product-advice-alex-komoroske• Acquired podcast interviews Zuckerberg in San Francisco: https://transistor.fm/acquired-live/• Hema Mohan on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/hemamohan/• Radical Candor: Be a Kick-Ass Boss Without Losing Your Humanity: https://www.amazon.com/Radical-Candor-Kick-Ass-Without-Humanity/dp/1250103509• Radical Candor: From theory to practice with author Kim Scott: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/radical-candor-from-theory-to-practice• LiveRamp: https://liveramp.com/• Product Management class at Stanford: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/experience/learning/experiential-learning/action-learning-program/product-management• Figma: https://www.figma.com/• Dovetail: https://try.dovetail.com/• The Remarkable Advantage of Abundant Thinking: https://review.firstround.com/the-remarkable-advantage-of-abundant-thinking/• The Hard Thing About Hard Things: Building a Business When There Are No Easy Answers: https://www.amazon.com/Hard-Thing-About-Things-Building/dp/0062273205• Brandon Sanderson’s books: https://www.amazon.com/stores/Brandon-Sanderson/author/B001IGFHW6• Fallout on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CN4HV16N• Thunderbolt 4 ( 3-meter cable): https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MW5H3AM/A/thunderbolt-4-usb%E2%80%91c-pro-cable-3-m• Isaac Asimov: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Asimov• The complete Foundation series: https://www.amazon.com/Complete-Asimovs-Foundation-Foundations-Prelude/dp/B01EFDEMS8—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tristan de Montebello is the co-creator of Ultraspeaking, the most effective method I’ve come across for rapidly improving communication and presentation skills. In 2017, Tristan became the fastest person ever to reach the finals of the World Championship of Public Speaking, achieving this feat in just seven months with no prior experience. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why public speaking is a meta skill that can transform your life• Practical games and exercises to improve your speaking skills• The “Accordion Method” for preparing talks without memorization• The “Bow and Arrow Technique” for crafting memorable presentations• Tristan’s journey to the World Championship of Public Speaking finals• Lenny doing some of the exercises live on-screenTristan is offering a limited-time discount to Ultraspeaking. Both codes are valid until November 14, 2024:→ $500 off an Unlimited Membership with code UNLIMITEDLENNY500→ $200 off a Rapid Tier pass for a single cohort with code RAPIDLENNY200—Brought to you by:• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments• Command AI—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Brave Search—A smarter way to search—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/master-public-speaking-tristan-de-montebello—Where to find Tristan de Montebello:• X: https://x.com/Montebello• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tristandemontebello/• Website: https://ultraspeaking.com• Free email course: https://ultraspeaking.com/lenny/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Tristan de Montebello and Ultraspeaking(01:42) Personal experiences with public speaking(05:35) Misconceptions and meta skills in public speaking(08:56) Enjoyment as a barometer for effective speaking(15:30) Tactical tips for public speaking(29:15) The importance of practice and games(34:50) Game 1: The Conductor (Accessing different emotional states)(45:54) Mindset shift: playing the game(51:07) Game 2: Triple Step (Staying focused amid distractions)(01:07:51) Quieting the noise(01:09:46) Game 3: Conviction Prompts (Building executive presence)(01:17:27) The Accordion Method explained(01:37:57) The Bow and Arrow technique(01:43:43) Final thoughts and encouragement(01:44:55) Lightning round—Referenced:• Michael Gendler on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaelgendler• Alienor playing Conductor: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nmholFWwHro• Triple Step: https://ultraspeaking.com/triple-step-game/• Rapid Fire Analogies: https://ultraspeaking.com/rapid-fire-game/• Joe Rogan Experience #1309 — Naval Ravikant: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qHkcs3kG44• The Big Leap: Conquer Your Hidden Fear and Take Life to the Next Level: https://www.amazon.com/Big-Leap-Conquer-Hidden-Level/dp/0061735361• Tall poppy syndrome: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome• Peaky Blinders on Netflix: https://www.netflix.com/title/80002479• The Nice Guys on Prime Video: https://www.amazon.com/Nice-Guys-Russell-Crowe/dp/B01FV1GLR8• Ember temperature control smart mug: https://www.amazon.com/Ember-Temperature-Control-1-5-hr-Battery/dp/B07NQRM6ML• How I got to the World Championships of Public Speaking in 7 months: https://medium.com/the-mission/3000-people-staring-c2cbd14c6d6c—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Raiza Martin is a senior product manager for AI at Google Labs, where she leads the team behind NotebookLM, an AI-powered research tool that includes a delightful podcast-on-demand feature called “Audio Overviews.” NotebookLM started as a 20% project and has grown into a product that’s spreading across social media and has a Discord server with over 60,000 users. Raiza previously worked on AI Test Kitchen and has a background in startups, payments, and ads. In our conversation, we discuss:• The origin story of NotebookLM• The future road map for NotebookLM• How Google Labs operates differently from the rest of Google• The development of the “Audio Overviews” feature• Key metrics and growth of NotebookLM• Stories about collaborating with author Steven Johnson• Navigating potential misuse of AI technology—Brought to you by:• Explo — Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Sprig⁠⁠ — Build products for people, not data points• Sidebar — Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/googles-notebooklm-raiza-martin—Where to find Raiza Martin:• X: https://x.com/raiza_abubakar• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whatsaraiza/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to NotebookLM(05:43) The genesis of NotebookLM(08:08) Innovative features and use cases(18:52) Building a startup culture within Google(24:28) Expanding user demographics(27:30) The product roadmap(32:18) Other use cases(36:11) Collaborating with Steven Johnson(42:49) Ensuring ethical AI(46:06) Future directions and user engagement—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

JM Nickels is a Senior Director of Product Management at Uber. Previously, he was Head of Product for Commercialization at Waymo and led product teams at DoorDash. JM is also a coach and advisor focused on conscious leadership. In our conversation, we discuss:• How to sharpen your vision and strategy skills• What “conscious leadership” means and how to practice it• Practical techniques for managing stress• The power of soft skills and emotional intelligence in product leadership• Lessons from working at Uber, Waymo, and DoorDash• Keys to living a successful and fulfilling life• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• The Enterprise Ready Conference — For B2B leaders building enterprise SaaS• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/becoming-a-conscious-leader-john-mark-nickels—Where to find John Mark Nickels:• X: https://x.com/nickelsjm• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jmnickels/• Website: https://www.rhythmofbeing.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to JM(02:02) Conscious leadership explained(03:41) The power of soft skills(07:34) Navigating Uber’s evolution(12:41) Embracing emotions and inner work(21:46) Crafting strategy and vision(41:16) Balancing vision and execution(46:13) Lessons from DoorDash, Uber, and Waymo(52:32) The future of autonomous ride-hailing(55:18) Contrarian corner: Embracing emotions in the workplace(59:47) Keys to a fulfilling life(01:04:45) Taking responsibility and agency(01:07:29) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Alex Komoroske is a strategic leader who merges the practice, theory, and mindset necessary to tackle complex problems. He spent 13 years at Google, where he worked on Search and DoubleClick and led Chrome’s Open Web Platform. He also spearheaded Augmented Reality in Google Maps and developed toolkits to align companywide strategy from the ground up. After serving as Head of Corporate Strategy at Stripe, he is now co-founding a startup aimed at reimagining the web for the AI era. Alex created the popular “Slime Molds” deck, which offers fresh insights into organizational dynamics. He is also the author of the widely read “Bits and Bobs,” a collection of thought-provoking reflections.In our conversation, we delve into:• “Organizational kayfabe”• “Gardening” vs. “building”• How AI will soon change how we build product• How and why to embrace the adjacent possible• The power of reflection and how to build it into your workflow• How to create emergent properties in organizations• How to run effective “strategy salons” or “nerd clubs”• Much more—Brought to you by:• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/unconventional-product-advice-alex-komoroske—Where to find Alex Komoroske:• X: https://x.com/komorama• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alex-komoroske-6597336/• Website: https://www.komoroske.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Alex(01:53) Alex’s Bits and Bobs document(06:20) The Compendium and note-taking process(10:10) The impact of AI and LLMs on product development(14:24) Skills to lean into as a product manager(19:02) How AI makes us better as individuals(23:04) Organizational kayfabe(31:48) Gardening vs. building(34:46) Emergence-oriented thinking(41:55) Slime molds and organizational structure(45:15) Identifying resonant ideas(47:05) The power of metaphors(48:02) Strategy salons and nerd clubs(52:30) Building and sustaining communities(55:59) Productivity hacks and self-control(01:01:04) Life philosophy and personal insights(01:07:52) The adjacent possible(01:15:56) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Benjamin Lauzier has been building and scaling marketplaces for almost 15 years. He was the VP of product and growth at Thumbtack, where he rebuilt the product team and Thumbtack’s growth levers, re-architected their revenue model, and helped double the company’s growth within three years. Prior to Thumbtack, Ben was at Lyft for six years, where he led the supply side of the product organization to a point where 1% of U.S. workers were driving for Lyft every month. Currently, he advises marketplace teams and founders, teaches a Reforge course on marketplace growth, and has recently launched a health tech company called Nurra, which connects users with care advocates to navigate the health-care system. In our conversation, we cover:• What defines a marketplace business• Strategies for growing supply and demand in the early stages• How to measure liquidity and other marketplace health metrics• How to evaluate if a marketplace model is right for your idea• Lessons from Lyft, Thumbtack, and other successful marketplaces• The differences between product management in the U.S. and Europe—Brought to you by:• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments• Paragon—Ship every SaaS integration your customers want• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-marketplaces-win-benjamin-lauzier—Where to find Benjamin Lauzier:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benjaminlauzier/• Ben’s Reforge course: https://www.reforge.com/courses/marketplace-growth/details—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Ben’s background(02:24) Defining a marketplace(07:52) Challenges in building a marketplace(13:28) Methods for growing supply(15:57) Understanding marketplace liquidity(21:36) Identifying product-market fit in marketplaces(24:10) Evaluating marketplace business models(27:20) Common pitfalls and failures in marketplaces(36:23) Managed marketplaces and quality control(42:26) Lyft’s rental car initiative(46:35) Mentorship and ambassador programs(51:21) Driver recruitment strategies(54:12) Lyft vs. Uber: a strategic analysis(59:24) Cultural differences in tech: Europe vs. U.S.(01:10:30) Building a health advocacy platform(01:16:52) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tamar Yehoshua is the president of product and technology at Glean. Prior to joining Glean, Tamar was chief product officer at Slack, where she led product, design, and research as the company scaled, including a 10x increase in revenue, its public listing, and an acquisition by Salesforce. She also led product and engineering teams at Google, working on search, identity, and privacy, and at A9.com, an Amazon company. Tamar has served on the board of directors for RetailMeNot, ServiceNow, Snyk, and Yext. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why you don’t need to be a well-run company to win• The impact of AI on product management and the future of work• How to build strong cross-functional relationships, especially with engineers• Lessons learned from working with leaders like Jeff Bezos and Stewart Butterfield• Strategies for staying ahead in a rapidly evolving tech landscape• Much more—Brought to you by:• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product• Sprig⁠⁠—Build products for people, not data points• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/you-dont-need-to-be-a-well-run-company-to-win-tamar-yehoshua—Where to find Tamar Yehoshua:• X: https://x.com/TYehoshua• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tamar-yehoshua-886217/• Newsletter: https://tamaryehoshua.substack.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Tamar’s background(02:09) Key advice for career success(06:54) Understanding people and motivations(09:33) The importance of impact(11:20) Navigating company chaos(18:40) Career planning: a different perspective(26:22) Lessons from industry leaders(37:59) Building stronger cross-functional relationships(42:00) Streamlining OKR reviews with async methods(45:26) Why you shouldn’t worry so much about making users unhappy(47:50) The power of listening in leadership(52:34) How to leverage AI so you don’t fall behind(01:06:39) Closing thoughts and lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tal Raviv is a product manager at Riverside, where he joined as its first PM. Over his 12-year career as an individual contributor, Tal has been an early PM at Patreon, AppsFlyer, and Wix, working in consumer growth, developer API platforms, and pricing. He started his career by co-founding a profitable SaaS company and also volunteers as a surf instructor for people with disabilities. In our conversation, Tal shares:• Why he has chosen to stay an individual contributor rather than moving into management• The rise of “super ICs” and how companies can support this career path• Advice for succeeding as a long-term IC product manager• How he uses AI to enhance his productivity• How to build self-reliant teams and make yourself redundant• Lessons from failures• Much more—Brought to you by:• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-super-ic-pm-tal-raviv—Where to find Tal Raviv:• X: https://x.com/talraviv• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/talsraviv/• Maven course: https://maven.com/tal-raviv/product-manager-productivity-system/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Tal’s background(02:24) Choosing to stay an IC product manager(07:05) The value of IC roles(08:31) Compensation and career path(12:37) Advice for companies on creating space for ICs(14:33) Leveraging AI for productivity(22:44) Build your personal PM productivity system(37:39) Contrarian opinions and insights(44:32) Book smart vs. street smart decision-making(51:51) There’s no one right way to get things done(57:03) Failure corner(01:19:04) Lightning round(01:26:50) Living through conflict—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Eli Schwartz is a leading SEO consultant and the author of Product-Led SEO. He has worked with industry giants like Zapier, Tinder, Coinbase, Quora, LinkedIn, and WordPress to build and execute global SEO strategies that significantly enhanced their organic visibility at scale. In our conversation, Eli shares:• How AI and LLMs are reshaping the SEO landscape• Why you should be focused on mid-funnel SEO strategies• How to determine if SEO is the right approach for your business• Why SEO should be treated as a product rather than just a marketing tactic• SEO myths• The future of search in light of recent legal challenges faced by Google• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Brave Search—A smarter way to search• OneSchema—Import CSV data 10x faster—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/rethinking-seo-in-the-age-of-ai-eli-schwartz—Where to find Eli Schwartz:• X: https://x.com/5le• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/schwartze/• Website: https://www.elischwartz.co/• Newsletter: https://www.productledseo.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Eli’s background(02:10) The impact of AI on SEO strategies(11:34) Understanding search intent(15:30) Real-world impact and structured vs. unstructured data(20:19) Top-of-funnel vs mid-funnel SEO strategies(22:57) Case studies(31:29) Steps for getting started with SEO(35:20) Examples of when not to focus on SEO(39:17) Evaluating SEO investment(44:00) Understanding the tradeoffs in marketing channels(46:23) SEO conversion metrics and expectations(52:09) Understanding the time horizon of SEO(59:37) The role of AI in content creation(01:05:26) AI overviews (01:07:40) Brand building and SEO(01:09:51) Programmatic vs. editorial SEO strategies(01:16:06) Insights from the Google antitrust verdict(01:20:36) Google’s dominance in search(01:23:52) The future of SEO and user choice(01:26:28) SEO myths debunked(01:36:58) Forecasting SEO success(01:44:18) The need for SEO expertise(01:46:26) Lightning round and closing thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Camille Fournier is the author of The Manager’s Path, which many consider the definitive guide for navigating one’s career path in tech. Camille was previously the CTO of Rent the Runway, VP of Technology at Goldman Sachs, Head of Platform Engineering at Two Sigma, and Global Head of Engineering and Architecture at JPMorgan Chase. She is about to release new newest book, Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders. In our conversation, we discuss:• What product managers do that annoys engineers• Why major rewrites are a trap• Why you should have fewer one-on-ones• Strategies for organizing and working with platform teams• Tips for new managers• Advice for transitioning from individual contributor to manager• Much more—Brought to you by:• DX—A platform for measuring and improving developer productivity• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Coda—The all-in-one collaborative workspace—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/engineering-leadership-camille-fournier—Where to find Camille Fournier:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/camille-fournier-9011812/• Website: https://skamille.medium.com/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Camille’s background(02:17) Common annoyances between PMs and engineers(07:09) Avoiding the telephone game(08:05) Hoarding ideas and over-engineering(09:55) The importance of involving engineers in ideation(11:37) The middle-person dilemma(14:21) Rewriting systems: a big trap?(20:40) Engineering leadership lessons(36:02) Moving from IC to management(40:32) One-on-one meetings(45:10) Pushing beyond comfort zones(45:27) Building a balanced work culture(48:01) Effective time management strategies(54:15) Advice for platform team success(01:02:42) Platform team responsibilities(01:04:43) When to form a platform team(01:07:02) Thriving on a platform team(01:12:48) AI corner(01:17:03) Lightning round and final thoughts—Referenced:• Platform Engineering: A Guide for Technical, Product, and People Leaders: https://www.amazon.com/Platform-Engineering-Technical-Product-Leaders/dp/1098153642/• The Manager’s Path: A Guide for Tech Leaders Navigating Growth and Change: https://www.amazon.com/Managers-Path-Leaders-Navigating-Growth/dp/1491973897• 97 Things Every Engineering Manager Should Know: Collective Wisdom from the Experts: https://www.amazon.com/Things-Every-Engineering-Manager-Should/dp/1492050903• Avoiding the Rewrite Trap: https://skamille.medium.com/avoiding-the-rewrite-trap-b1283b8dd39e• Levelsio on X: https://x.com/levelsio• Pieter Levels on the Lex Fridman Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFtjKbXKqbg• GraphQL: https://graphql.org/• New Blue Sun by André 3000 on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/album/33Ek6daAL3oXyQIV1uoItD• Musk’s 5 Steps to Cut Internal Bureaucracy at Tesla and SpaceX: https://icecreates.com/insight/musk-s-5-steps-to-cut-internal-bureaucracy-at-tesla-and-spacex-you-may-say-it-s-his-algorithm/• Ian Nowland on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/inowland/• Studio Pulls ‘Megalopolis’ Trailer Using Fake Quotes from Famed Movie Critics: https://www.huffpost.com/entry/studio-pulls-megalopolis-trailer-using-fake-quotes-from-famed-movie-critics_n_66c74046e4b0f1ca469413c7• Claude 2: https://www.anthropic.com/news/claude-2• What Got You Here Won’t Get You There: How Successful People Become Even More Successful: https://www.amazon.com/What-Got-Here-Wont-There/dp/1401301304• When Things Fall Apart: Heart Advice for Difficult Times: https://www.amazon.com/When-Things-Fall-Apart-Difficult/dp/1611803438• Alien: Romulus: https://www.imdb.com/title/tt18412256/• Whoop: https://www.whoop.com—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Phyl Terry is the author of Never Search Alone, which I’ve seen so many people reference as the most impactful guide they read for finding a job. Phyl was on the founding team of the first company Amazon acquired back in the ’90s and then was CEO of pioneering product consulting firm Creative Good, with companies like Apple, Facebook, and Microsoft as customers. Today, Phyl is the founder and CEO of Collaborative Gain, which 20 years ago pioneered bringing councils to senior product leaders and GMs in Silicon Valley. That’s their day job—in addition to that, Phyl runs a free global community for job seekers based on their latest book. In our conversation, we discuss:• Why you should never search for a job alone• How job search councils work• How to determine your “candidate-market fit”• How to conduct a listening tour• Creating your job mission and OKRs• How to negotiate job offers• The art of asking for help• Tactics for effective networking and interviewing• Much more—Brought to you by:• Sidebar—Accelerate your career by surrounding yourself with extraordinary peers• Sprig—Build products for people, not data points• Dovetail—The customer insights hub for product teams—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/land-your-dream-phyl-terry—Where to find Phyl Terry:• X: https://x.com/phylterry• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/phylterry/• Website: https://www.phyl.org/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Phyl’s background(01:58) The concept of job search councils(04:27) The power of community in job searching(08:55) The scale and structure of job search councils(12:27) The impact of job search councils(20:19) The concept of candidate-market fit(22:50) Writing a Mnookin two-pager(24:37) Conducting listening tours(30:12) Creating a focused candidate-market fit(36:20) Advice on finding the right stage of company for you(40:37) Identifying your unique path(45:30) Navigating tough job markets(49:07) Playing to win(53:36) Negotiation tactics for job offers(01:05:12) The gratitude house exercise(01:10:48) The power of asking for help(01:19:18) How to ask for help(01:28:40) Final thoughts and advice(01:38:21) Lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Tomer Cohen is the chief product officer at LinkedIn, responsible for setting the company’s product strategy, leading product development, user experience design, business development, content creation, and customer operations. He also hosts the Building One podcast, where he interviews exceptional builders across various disciplines. In our conversation, we discuss:• How LinkedIn transformed its feed into an engaging content and social platform• Tomer’s famous “We might be wrong, but we are not confused” mantra• The importance of conviction and passion in product leadership• LinkedIn’s approach to experimenting with and implementing AI features• Lessons from Tomer’s rapid career progression at LinkedIn• Strategies for embracing AI in product development—Brought to you by:• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI• WorkOS—Modern identity platform for B2B SaaS, free up to 1 million MAUs• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app—Find the transcript at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-linkedin-became-interesting-tomer-cohen—Where to find Tomer Cohen:• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tomercohen/• Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/building-one-with-tomer-cohen/id1726672498—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Introduction to Tomer Cohen and his role at LinkedIn(02:28) The mantra “We might be wrong, but we are not confused”(06:45) Clarity of thought and focus(13:03) Setting ambitious goals and overdelivering(16:18) Transforming LinkedIn’s feed: strategy and execution(22:03) Running experiments at scale(26:24) Goal setting and identifying opportunities (30:58) AI’s role in LinkedIn’s evolution(35:38) The AI-first mindset at LinkedIn(35:38) Developing an AI-first mindset(44:49) Letting go of your roadmaps and allowing room for exploration(49:12) Career growth and personal insights(55:01) Takeaways(56:39) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Sean Ellis is one of the earliest and most influential thinkers and operators in growth. He coined the term “growth hacking,” invented the ICE prioritization framework, was one of the earliest people to use freemium as a growth lever, and, most famously, developed the Sean Ellis Test for product-market fit (which a large percentage of founders use today to track if they’ve found PMF). Over the course of his career, Sean was head of growth at Dropbox and Eventbrite; helped companies like Microsoft and Nubank refine their growth strategy; was on the founding team of LogMeIn, which sold for over $4 billion; and is the author of one of the most popular growth books of all time, Hacking Growth, which has sold over 750,000 copies. In our conversation, he shares:• The proper use of the Sean Ellis Test for measuring product-market fit• How to increase your activation and retention rates• How to select the right North Star metric for your business• Case studies from his work growing Dropbox and other products• How growth strategy has changed over the past decade• How AI is impacting growth efforts• Much more—Brought to you by:• Gamma—A new way to present, powered by AI• CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users• Merge—A single API to add hundreds of integrations into your app—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/the-original-growth-hacker-sean-ellis—Where to find Sean Ellis:• X: https://x.com/seanellis• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/seanellis/• Website: https://www.seanellis.me/• Substack: https://substack.com/@seanellis—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Sean’s background(02:18) The Sean Ellis test explained(06:28) The 40% rule(08:06) Case study: improving product-market fit(12:34) Understanding and leveraging customer feedback(16:50) Challenges and nuances of product-market fit(22:22) When to use the Sean Ellis Test(23:46) When not to use the Sean Ellis Test and other caveats(27:13) Defining your own threshold and how the Sean Ellis Test came about(36:13) Tools for implementing the survey (37:30) Transitioning from surveys to retention cohorts(39:13) Nubank’s approach(40:18) Case study: Superhuman’s strategy for increasing product-market fit(45:18) Coining the term “growth hacking”(48:24) How to approach growth(57:25) Improving activation and onboarding(01:05:17) Identifying effective growth channels(01:10:28) The power of customer conversations(01:12:43) Developing the Dropbox referral program(01:14:47) The importance of word of mouth(01:15:23) Freemium models and engagement(01:19:21) Picking a North Star metric(01:24:30) The evolution of growth strategies(01:27:12) The ICE and RICE frameworks(01:30:11) AI’s role in growth and experimentation(01:32:52) Final thoughts and lightning round—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Vlad Loktev spent 10 years at Airbnb, where he started as an IC PM and quickly advanced to lead the core Airbnb marketplace business and then GM the entire homes business, managing over 1,000 people and reporting directly to CEO Brian Chesky. He recently left Airbnb and joined Index Ventures as their newest partner. Vlad was my manager at Airbnb for many years, and is the person I credit most for teaching me how to be a great product manager. Prior to Airbnb, Vlad spent a year at Zynga, where he helped grow Words with Friends to over 14 million daily active users. In our conversation, Vlad shares:• Insight into Brian Chesky’s leadership style• Why success as a PM is all about impact, impact, impact• Why chaos can be good• Why as a leader it’s OK to let some fires burn• Why you should learn to “poke the bear”• Balancing product release speed with quality• Lessons on prioritization, decision-making, and organizational design• Advice for founders on building company culture• Much more—Brought to you by:• Pendo—The only all-in-one product experience platform for any type of application• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Eppo—Run reliable, impactful experiments—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/impact-impact-impact-vlad-loktev—Where to find Vlad Loktev:• X: https://x.com/vladimirloktev• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/vladimirloktev/—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Vlad’s background(02:54) Reflecting on transformative years at Airbnb(04:28) Skills and mindsets for success(11:03) Impact-driven mindset(13:16) Saying no and inquiry before advocacy (17:54) “Poking the bear”(22:46) Psychological tools for leadership(30:08) Building and scaling teams(36:12) Letting fires burn(47:34) Embracing chaos(54:40) The unsell email strategy(01:02:01) Finding your place in an organization(01:05:38) The importance of company culture(01:13:16) Airbnb’s unique approach to product management(01:26:41) Failure corner(01:31:32) Lightning round and final thoughts—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe

Nikita Bier is one of the most in-demand consumer, social, and growth experts in the world. He’s the co-founder of TBH (sold to Meta for more than $30 million) and Gas (sold to Discord for millions more) and has helped more consumer apps that have hit #1 in the app stores than any other person I’ve come across. He currently spends his time advising founders on growth, product, and design and is an investor and advisor to some of the best consumer tech companies, including Flo, Locket, Eight Sleep, Citizen, BeReal, Captions, and more. In our conversation, we discuss:• The inside story of how TBH and Gas achieved explosive growth• Strategies for building viral consumer apps• Why teens are such a great audience• Fighting the human trafficking hoax at Gas• The challenge of creating durable social products• His experience working as a PM at Facebook• Advice for founders on building consumer apps• Much more—Brought to you by:• Webflow—The web experience platform• Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security• Explo—Embed customer-facing analytics in your product—Book Nikita for 1:1 consultation/mentoring: https://intro.co/NikitaBier—Find the transcript and show notes at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-consistently-go-viral-nikita-bier—Where to find Nikita Bier:• X: https://x.com/nikitabier • Threads: https://www.threads.net/@nikitabier• Website: https://intro.co/NikitaBier—Where to find Lenny:• Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com• X: https://twitter.com/lennysan• LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/—In this episode, we cover:(00:00) Nikita’s background (06:08) Nikita’s early ventures: Politify and Outline(08:42) Transition to consumer apps(13:45) The birth of TBH(16:43) Building for teens vs. adults(20:00) TBH’s viral success(32:18) Leveraging live chat(34:08) Lasting lessons from TBH(37:00) Selling TBH to Facebook(42:19) Big-tech product management(48:46) Nikita on why “product management is not real”(51:49) The Tim Cook painting story(53:53) Leaving Facebook and starting a new venture(58:02) Rebuilding TBH and overcoming challenges(59:46) Addressing criticism(01:04:24) The human trafficking hoax(01:09:51) Selling to Discord and lessons learned(01:11:36) Lasting lessons from Gas(01:13:14) Building durable consumer apps(01:22:35) The VC route(01:23:27) Contact permissions in iOS 18(01:26:53) The success of Dupe(01:31:53) Advice for startup founders(01:34:14) Work with Nikita—Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com.—Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed. Get full access to Lenny's Newsletter at www.lennysnewsletter.com/subscribe