Lives Less Ordinary

How a romantic getaway ended in disaster.Dutch financier Annette Herfkens boarded Vietnam Airlines Flight 474 in November 1992, embarking on what was meant to be a romantic break with her fiancé Willem van der Pas or ‘Pasje’. But fate had other plans. Midway through the flight from Ho Chi Minh City to the coastal resort of Nha Trang, the Soviet-built Yakovlev Yak-40 encountered severe weather and slammed into a remote, fog-shrouded mountain ridge in the dense Vietnamese jungle. The impact was catastrophic, killing all 30 other passengers and crew on board, including Annette's beloved Pasje.   Incredibly, Annette emerged as the sole survivor of the crash, defying odds in one of the most amazing real-life tales of endurance. Thrown from the wreckage with devastating injuries—including a collapsed lung, a broken jaw, two fractured legs, and a dozen fractures in her hips—she found herself stranded amid the twisted metal and bodies of her fellow travellers. Unable to walk or even crawl far, she endured eight gruelling days in the unforgiving wilderness, battling excruciating pain, dehydration, and the psychological torment of her loss. With no food, she sustained herself solely on rainwater collected from the jungle foliage, her will to live fuelled by sheer determination and fleeting moments of hope that a rescue would come. Annette’s book is called Turbulence: A True Story of Survival.Presenter: Asya Fouks Producer: Edgar MaddicottLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Our latest mini-series Hold Fast! tells the incredible true story of how The Avontuur was locked down at sea for 188 days during the Covid-19 pandemic, with 15 people on board.Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

A heads-up on some of the extraordinary stories to look forward to from September - from a long-lost son, to the sole survivor of a plane crash, to Afghanistan’s answer to Bruce Lee. We're back with a new look, and the best in global true life storytelling.Presenter: Mobeen AzharLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

As the Avontuur draws closer to Hamburg and its final port of call, the crew begin to reflect on what they’ve been through and what awaits them in their lives back on land. But first, there’s a party to welcome the ship home. Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected. Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

After 188 days without setting foot on land, the Avontuur finally arrives in Horta, in the Azores. Before the crew can finally get off the ship, there are a few last hurdles to contend with. Ship’s cook Giulia has played her part in getting them here in reasonably good spirits, but now her patience is beginning to wear thin.15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Artwork by Joe Magee Narration written by Laura Thomas For Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and the editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

As the crew of the Avontuur fight their way out of the Gulf of Mexico and battle a hurricane that delays their journey back across the Atlantic, ship’s cook Giulia faces the spectre of food and gas shortages with ingenuity and a determination to get back home. 15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Artwork by Joe Magee Narration written by Laura Thomas For Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and the editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected. Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784

Denied entry to a series of ports in the Caribbean, the crew of the Avontuur begin to wonder whether they will ever be able to get off the ship. They mend sails and find creative ways to entertain themselves until, one night, Giulia begins to feel unwell. 15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Artwork by Joe Magee Narration written by Laura Thomas For Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and the editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Unable to step off the ship, tensions are rising amongst the crew of the Avontuur and coping mechanisms begin to emerge. When the dry store is raided and boxes of biscuits go missing, ship’s cook Giulia is forced to turn detective.15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Artwork by Joe Magee Narration written by Laura Thomas For Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and the editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

In the middle of the Atlantic, the crew of the Avontuur receive a satellite email with news from land that throws everything they’d been counting on to the winds. Their mission and schedule are in disarray, but turning back isn’t an option. So ship’s cook Giulia and the rest of the crew find ways to cope with the uncertainty. 15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Artwork by Joe Magee Narration written by Laura Thomas For Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and the editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.What would you do if your world shrunk to 300 square metres, and you had no say over who you shared it with? If you were on a ship, at sea, far from loved ones - and didn’t know when you’d be able to set foot on land again, and get home?In this episode: The Avontuur begins the second leg of its journey, setting out from Tenerife to cross the Atlantic. At work in the galley preparing breakfast, ship’s cook Giulia Baccosi learns that the night watch noticed an unusual little light, far off on the horizon. It’s been there through the night. It’s too far from shore to be a fishing boat, so what is it?Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Narration written by Laura Thomas Artwork by Joe MageeFor Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and editor, Munazza Khan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

15 people, 188 days at sea, one extraordinary ship: how the Avontuur was locked down at sea during the Covid-19 pandemic.What would you do if your world shrunk to 300 square metres, and you had no say over who you shared it with? If you were on a ship, at sea, far from loved ones - and didn’t know when you’d be able to set foot on land again, and get home?In this episode: When ship’s cook Giulia Baccosi accepts a last-minute job aboard sailing cargo ship The Avontuur, she’s looking for more than a job. She’s seeking adventure and community, too. She tells the captain that she’ll stay with the ship until it reaches Mexico, in about three months’ time. After saying goodbye to her partner, Giulia settles into life on board and the responsibilities of feeding the Avontuur’s crew of fifteen. But before Giulia and the crew know it, everything they’re counting on will be thrown to the winds.Narrated by Siobhán McSweeney Produced by Christina Hardinge Sound and music by Noémie Ducimetière Narration written by Laura Thomas Artwork by Joe MageeFor Lives Less Ordinary, the series producer is Laura Thomas and editor, Munazza Khan. Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784 You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

A corporate high-flyer ended up living in a forest after a spiral of debt, shame and secrecy.After avoiding a mounting debt to his landlord, Australian Mic Whitty’s life started to crumble. Instead of facing his responsibilities, he tried to gamble and steal money to better his fortunes. As his mental health deteriorated, wracked by guilt and shame, he was determined to pay everyone back. Then he disappeared from his old life and ended up homeless, living in a forest. Through a stroke of luck, a kind librarian, and a 100-year-old war diary with a bullet hole in it, Mic would emerge from the woods with a new purpose and a shot at redemption. This programme contains references to suicide. If you’ve been affected by any of the issues raised in this episode, you can find support at befrienders.orgPresenter: Mobeen Azhar Producers: Edgar Maddicott and Elena AngelidesLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Robin Green is an American writer who has been dizzyingly successful, but she describes herself as a 'clueless girl'. At times, she didn't even realise she could actually write. In the early 1970s when Robin was in her 20s, she had an interview with Rolling Stone magazine's creator and editor Jann Wenner. She initially thought it was for a secretarial role, but instead, he hired her as a writer - and the only woman on the editorial masthead. What followed were Robin's raucous, wild, rock 'n' roll years. She interviewed the likes of David Cassidy, Dennis Hopper and Bobby Kennedy Jr, who she recalls sleeping with on his dorm-room water-bed. After failing to produce a story on him, her time at Rolling Stone ended and Robin began to question her future. It was then that she met the love of her life, an aspiring writer called Mitch. But their relationship fell apart and she spent a decade going from one thing to another.Nearing 40, Robin had an epiphany while watching daytime television and her career as a writer took a dramatic turn. She picked up her pen, and with Mitch, they began writing for the TV show Northern Exposure. They became extraordinarily successful writing partners, winning multiple Emmys, including for their work on The Sopranos - where, once again, Robin was the only woman in the room for most of her time there. When Robin was almost 60, Mitch proposed and now married, they created their own hit show - Blue Bloods.Robin has written a memoir, The Only Girl: My Life and Times on the Masthead of Rolling Stone.Presenter: Asya Fouks Producer: Sarah KendalLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

Artist Kubra Khademi was so enraged by the constant sexual harassment faced by women in Afghanistan that she created a bespoke suit of armour, forged out of metal with exaggerated breasts and buttocks. The idea came from an experience she had many years earlier, as a little girl, walking along a street and encountering a male stranger who would sexually assault her - at the time she wished she was wearing "iron underwear" to protect her. In March 2015 Kubra wore her custom-made armour and decided to walk down Kabul’s busiest street. The reaction to her performance was life-changing - she received death threats and was forced to flee her home.Kubra’s now living in France where she's a successful artist, recognised for her work celebrating the female body.Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Maryam MarufLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

After being kidnapped, a promise to return to his mother helped Antonio Salazar-Hobson through his darkest hours.Antonio Salazar-Hobson was four years old when he was kidnapped from his Mexican migrant worker family in Arizona by the white couple who lived next door. From Phoenix, he was taken more than 300 miles away to California, where he grew up suffering terrible abuse. Throughout his ordeal, he replayed the memories he had of his family over and again - especially of his beloved mother Petra - and swore to himself that one day he would make it back to her. As a teenager, he sought out other Mexican-American families to hold on to his roots, and threw himself into left-wing activism on behalf of workers like his family back home. There, he met renowned labour union leader Cesar Chavez who encouraged him to study and become a lawyer; it was an encounter which would change the course of his life. After going to college, and finally escaping his abductors, he began to track down the family he'd been stolen from so many years before.This programme contains references to child sexual abuse and suicide.Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Zoe GelberLives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784   You can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

While visiting friends in Uruguay, British teacher Tom Michell saw a penguin covered in oil and tar on a beach. Tom cleaned the bird as best he could and then tried to release it. The penguin refused to return to the wild, it just followed Tom around. So he took it home, smuggling the animal across the border into Argentina where he lived and worked at a boarding school. The penguin became a part of his life, and the school's life - with a remarkable influence on everyone who came into contact with it.Later Tom entertained his children, friends and family with tales of the penguin. He put those stories into a bestselling book, The Penguin Lessons, now the subject of a film starring British comedian Steve Coogan.Lives Less Ordinary is a podcast from the BBC World Service that brings you the most incredible true stories from around the world. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.    Each episode a guest shares their most dramatic, moving, personal story. Listen for unbelievable twists, mysteries uncovered, and inspiring journeys - spanning the entire human experience. These are stories that stay with you.    Our guests come from every corner of the globe: from Burundi to Beverly Hills, New Zealand to North Korea, Rajasthan to Rio. And their stories can be about anything: tales of survival, humour or resilience. From the mind-blowing account of the Japanese man trapped in his own reality TV show, to the Swedish women rescued from lions by a tin of spam. It’s life’s wild side, in stereo. Lives Less Ordinary is brought to you by the team behind Outlook, the home of true life storytelling on BBC World Service radio for nearly 60 years.   Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784Presenter: Asya Fouks Producer: Hetal BapodraYou can read our privacy notice here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/5YD3hBqmw26B8WMHt6GkQxG/lives-less-ordinary-privacy-notice

In Judith Obina Okumu's imagination, Joseph Kony was a monster. As leader of the Lord's Resistance Army he'd fought a decades-long war against the government of Yoweri Museveni – displacing and destroying hundreds of thousands of lives across Northern Uganda in the process. But one day, a visit from a stranger would challenge Judith to face her fears. In her role as assistant private secretary to President Museveni, Judith was introduced to Joseph Kony's mother, Nora Anek. After three years of gaining her trust, Judith asked Nora if she would go to meet her son at his forest hideout and persuade him to engage with peace talks. What Judith didn't know was that the President wanted her to go too. She was convinced it was the last journey she'd ever make. But after 14 days of talks, Judith and Nora helped broker peace in Northern Uganda. Lives Less Ordinary is a weekly podcast from the BBC World Service that seeks out the most incredible true stories from around the world. Step into someone else’s life and expect the unexpected.  Each episode, a guest shares their most intimate and defining personal story. Listen for real-life accounts, unbelievable twists, and inspiring journeys, which prove just how extraordinary the human experience can be.Lives Less Ordinary is brought to you by the team behind Outlook, the home of human storytelling on the BBC World Service for nearly 60 years.Got a story to tell? Send an email to liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or message us via WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Anna Lacey

Opal Lee is now affectionately known as the Grandmother of Juneteenth. She led the campaign for the 19th June, the day in 1865 when enslaved people in Texas were finally told that they were free, to be declared a national holiday. As President Biden signed the bill into law, Opal stood beside him. She had very personal reasons for wanting all Americans to think about freedom and the damage that racism can do.In 1939 on the 19th of June, just days after she and her family had moved into a predominantly white neighbourhood in Fort Worth, Texas, their house was destroyed by a white mob. Opal was just 12. The family never spoke about the event again.Opal went on to work as a teacher and counsellor in school, and then set up a food bank and later a farm to help those struggling to feed their families. She also organised local events to mark Juneteenth in Texas. In 2016, when she was 89, Opal came up with the idea to walk to Washington to ask the President to declare the day a national holiday. The campaign, and their petition, grew slowly at first and then a seismic event, the murder of George Floyd by a police officer, galvanised people and created a new sense of urgency to bring about change. Now armed with a petition complete with 1.5 million signatures, Opal's campaign was successful.Opal Lee is now 98, she’s been nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize and she’s been given the Presidential Medal of Freedom – the nation’s highest civilian honour.Archive used from CBS NewsPresenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Andrea Kennedy and June ChristieGet in touch: liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784

When Dr Pier Piccioni woke up after a car accident, 12 years of his life had been erased.Dr Pierdante Piccioni is an unwilling time-traveller. Twelve years of his life were completely wiped from his memory after he suffered brain damage in a car crash in 2013. When he woke up in the hospital the next day, he thought it was 2001 and could not recognise his wife or his now adult sons. Reeling from the shock, and no longer able to practise medicine, Pier tries to find the man he had been. Searching through thousands of emails he discovers that he had a dark side. This is the amazing true story of a man out of time, who, unable to retrieve his past, endeavours to find love and a future in a strange new world. Presenter: Jo Fidgen Producer: Edgar MaddicottGet in touch: liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784(Photo: Dr Pierdante Piccioni. Credit: Sylvain Lefevre/ Getty)

Alexandra Morton-Hayward unlocks the secrets of the human brain but her own betrays her. Every night Ally Morton-Hayward has a headache so painful it wakes her up. She says it makes her feel like a werewolf. But by day she's unlocking the secrets of other human brains. Ally was at university when she started feeling a shocking and extraordinary pain in her head - 'cluster headaches' - which became so debilitating she had to drop out. While the rest of her friends were finishing their degrees, Alexandra decided to do something different – she got a job as an undertaker. It was at the mortuary that Ally held her first human brain and observed its delicate texture. When she began reading about ancient human brains that had been found intact around the world, she was amazed – how could something usually so delicate survive for thousands of years? Today she's leading the effort from Oxford University to understand how this is possible, whilst her own brain pushes her to become a master of pain and resilience.Presenter: Asya Fouks Producer: May CameronGet in touch: liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784

Remembering the former president of Uruguay: José 'Pepe' Mujica. He started life as a flower farmer on the outskirts of Montevideo. As a young man he became politically active, part of the left-wing guerilla group the Tupamaros, who were bent on revolution through armed struggle that involved bank heists and kidnappings. With the authorities on his tail Pepe was eventually captured, he was shot six times and later staged what became a record-breaking prison escape. When he was captured and imprisoned again, he was held for 13 years in horrendous conditions but he says the pain and loneliness of that time was when he learned the most about life. A year after the military regime stepped down, Pepe was released and joined formal politics and in 2010 he was voted in as president of Uruguay. He shunned the presidential palace and car for his crumbling farmhouse and old VW Beetle and brought in laws legalising gay marriage and abortion. He had his critics but when he died earlier this month, thousands of people lined the streets to pay their respects. We spoke to Pepe alongside his wife Lucia Topolansky in 2023 and they talked about how their love had changed over their decades together. Presenter: Andrea Kennedy Producer: Louise MorrisGet in touch: liveslessordinary@bbc.co.uk or WhatsApp: 0044 330 678 2784