Lloyd's List: The Shipping Podcast

This episode of the Lloyd's List podcast is brought to you by Lloyd's Register and Columbia Shipmanagement Sign up for the Lloyd's List Outlook Forum here: https://info.lloydslistintelligence.com/lloyds-list-outlook-forum-rsvp The wave of techno-optimism that began to spread in the wake of pandemic-related breakthroughs should be visible by now. Forced to embrace digitisation out of remote working necessity, firms outlined juicy research-and-development plans and governments promised to spend big on science. While it would be a stretch to say that the pandemic fuelled optimism, it certainly catalysed investment in technology research across sectors, and crucially coincided with an innovation arms race that was already escalating between China and the US. The principal project of the era, decarbonisation, spawned hundreds of funded technology projects, with as many again in the pipeline. And then of course there is AI. If some in the sector were to be believed, AI should have revolutionised shipping and everything else by now. All things considered, we should be living through a golden age of innovation. And yet it is often hard to see the evidence for that in shipping. Where are the breakthroughs? What do the great leap forwards looks like? There is no single unifying answer here and that’s part of the problem, but it’s also a huge opportunity. Joining Richard on the podcast this week are: Alexander Saverys, chief executive CMB.Tech Søren Meyer, chief executive of ZeroNorth Richard Buckley, chief executive of Ninety Percent of Everything Eman Abdalla, global operations director at Cargill Ocean Transportation Saskia Mureau, digital director at the Port of Rotterdam Authority Chakib Abi-Saab, chief technology officer at Lloyd's Register

This episode of the Lloyd’s List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit veson.com/decision-advantage for more information. Ten years or so ago, when the University of Plymouth ran their first cybersecurity symposium, the number attendees barely made double figures. This week, held in the main hall of the International Maritime Organization on London’s Albert Embankment, the same event attracted more than 300, from shipping companies in almost every sector. Clearly, the topic has gained attention and traction, partly down to the repeated warnings of horror stories the industry continues to receive, right the way up to hackers being able to remotely control very large crude carriers. There have been several high-profile cyber incidents in shipping since the devastating NotPetya attack which cost Maersk more than $250m in 2017. The Port of Seattle, the Port of Lisbon and class society DNV can all count themselves of cyber attacks in the last two years. But the apocalyptic vision that has been painted for the industry time and time again hasn’t materialised yet. So, how worried should we really be about cybersecurity in shipping? Joining Joshua on the podcast this week are: Kevin Jones, professor of computer science and director of the Maritime Cyber Threats Research Group, University of Plymouth Daniel Ng, chief executive of Cyberowl Svante Einarsson, head of cybersecurity maritime for EMEA and APAC, DNV Knut Ørbeck-Nilssen, maritime chief executive, DNV

When the International Association of Classification Societies (IACS) issued a paper in September setting out its position on the human element, its implications were clearly going to be far reaching. Its publication followed an IACS presentation in June to the Human Element Industry Group, which is made up of a number of maritime NGOs and it says that IACS’ aims “to highlight and emphasise the importance of … human element aspects when developing new IACS requirements applicable to the ship and ship systems.” RINA’s Secretary General Roberto Cazzulo currently chairs IACS’ Council, giving the Italian organisation a particular significance in any discussion about its implications and, in this podcast, RINA’s North Europe Region Senior Director for RINA’s marine activities Fiorenzo Spadoni, puts IACS’ approach into context, saying that it reflected significant industry changes driven by digitalisation, decarbonisation and increasingly complex ship systems. He also discussed whether these developments can help move the industry closer to net-zero emissions. “One critical factor in achieving net zero is the role of the human workforce” and by providing seafarers with skills and motivation to manage these technologies, “we are accelerating their adoption and the path toward net-zero,” he said.

The global climate circus heads to Baku, Azerbaijan this weekend for the start of the annual COP confab. That’s the Conference of the Parties, meaning signatories to the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change — or COP 29. Shipping will be there, but don’t expect much in the way of headline conclusions this year. If there is going to be any progress from this meeting, it’s going to focus on the New Collective Quantified Goal on Climate Finance. So why are we talking about COP this week? The reality is that COPs have never really been about shipping, but what happens inside COP has a direct bearing on what happens next in terms of shipping’s long term regulatory future. This year specifically COP is taking place just six months before the International Maritime Organization sits down agree the economic and technical measures to hit the industry’s 2050 net zero targets. What happens in COP has at least some bearing on what happens in the IMO and perhaps more importantly, shipping’s ability to make connections across the energy departments out in Azerbaijan over the next two weeks are going to be crucial to the process that follows whatever comes out of the IMO. Shipping may not be a huge part of COP, but COP matters hugely to shipping. Joining Richard on the podcast this week are: Dr Tristan Smith, University College London Katharine Palmer, Shipping Lead, UNFCC Climate Champions

Once a year, an industry alliance of first-movers and green investors gather in a room for shipping’s answer to Davos, the annual Global Maritime Forum. And it’s always an interesting conversation. These are shipping’s optimists. The progressive cohort of industry leaders who have collectively invested billions of dollars in decarbonisation projects and spawned voluntary projects advancing everything from transparent green finance and insurance to diversity programmes and climate-aligned chartering. But it’s not easy being an optimist in shipping right now. There are the obvious geopolitical headwinds blowing in of course, but there is also a growing sense that the industry in wait and see mode. Shipping’s green first-movers are increasingly unlikely to move further without a sufficiently robust regulatory framework from the International Maritime Organization next year. Scratch below the surface of the conversations about progress and innovation, and it’s apparent that we’re not yet at a stage where, even without the regulation, the industry is yet aligned on who ends up footing the bill for what is going to be a very expensive transition to green fuels and even basic efficiency investments. And yet, despite all that, when the GMF gathered in Tokyo earlier this month there was a palpable sense of optimism in the room and genuine evidence that progress is not just possible, it is now inevitable. So, has the shipping industry really moved from laggard to leader in the race to decarbonise? Joining Richard on this week's episode are: Eman Abdalla, global operations director ocean transportation division, Cargill Laure Baratgin, head of commercial operations, Rio Tinto Matthieu de Tugny, head of marine and offshore, Bureau Veritas Nick Brown, chief executive, Lloyd’s Register Arsenio Dominguez, secretary-general, IMO Johanna Christensen, chief executive, Global Maritime Forum

There have been shipowners listed on Wall Street going back to the 1980s, but it was only in the mid-2000s – with the China trade boom – that the shipping industry really came to the US public markets in a major way. In the two decades since then, there have been some controversies with these listed shipowners. These controversies have involved conflicts of interest: self-dealing by private sponsors and management to the detriment of common shareholders. There have been cases of public owners buying ships from their private sponsors at prices that are – shall we say – advantageous to the related-party sponsors. There have been fees paid by the public companies to their own sponsors for technical and commercial management at levels that have unduly enriched those sponsors. There have been public company managements that have conducted highly dilutive equity sales, wiping out over 90% of their own share value to raise money to buy ships from their own private companies. And there have been insiders that have had attractive offers to buy the public company – offers that would have enriched the common shareholders – but offers that were blocked because it was not in the interest of the insiders. When it comes to corporate governance – the good, the bad and the ugly – there is one person who is considered the expert on this subject, equity analyst Michael Webber. He started his own firm, Webber Research, in 2019 and before that was the shipping analyst at Wells Fargo. Every year, Webber puts out a scorecard that ranks shipping companies based upon their corporate governance and ESG practices. It is very closely watched – and this year’s rankings have just been released. Webber joins Lloyd’s List senior reporter Greg Miller on this week’s episode to talk about the scorecard and what it tells us about shipping industry behaviour.

This episode of the Lloyd’s List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit https://veson.com/decision-advantage for more information. Some shipowners warn that crew supply is only set to get worse due to a lack of young people wanting a career at sea. Others are concerned about the need to upskill existing crews to handle increasing digitalisation and multiple fuel types. This comes during a period of growth in the merchant vessel fleet due to a new shipbuilding cycle and limited vessel recycling. Most industry insiders agree that the talent shortage is already becoming a serious problem for the industry. Meanwhile, the switch to recruiting shipboard personnel chiefly from the Indian sub-continent and East Asia since the 1980s means there are fewer people able to fill numerous western shore-based roles requiring previous seafaring experience. As competition for crew has increased, more shipowners are taking action to increase the attractiveness of a seafaring career. These include improved crew accommodation, better internet connectivity and more flexible, or shorter working contracts. All of these can be effective ways to reduce attrition. So what more needs to be done to ensure a continued supply of skilled seafarers and attract young people to the industry to operate the global vessel fleet? Joining Rob Wilmington on this week’s episode are: Julia Anastasiou, chief crew management officer at OSM Thome Raal Harris, chief creative officer, Ocean Technologies

THERE is a hint of clickbait about this week’s title – we at Lloyd’s List are of course very passionate about diversity in shipping. But as the Women’s International Shipping & Trading Association celebrates its 50th birthday at its annual meeting in Cyprus – the question of why shipping still hasn’t achieved gender parity loomed large. Female representation in board rooms is a societal problem, but shipping is lagging behind even those modest numbers. The statistics are damning, wherever you get them from, but the accepted number is 15% of women occupy executive leadership roles and just 2% of seafarers are female. This episode is not to preach about the importance of diversity. Frankly that isn’t up for debate anymore. Instead, it will ask why our sector is so far behind others in this matter and identify some actual, tangible tasks that we can all do to make a difference today. Progress has undoubtedly been made, but it is slow and the going heavy. The exhaustion and frustration could be heard in many of the women’s voices at the conference, even if their words reflected continued optimism. So why is shipping failing, and what actions can be taken now to right course. Speaking on this week’s edition: WISTA International President Elpi Petraki IMO Secretary General Arsenio Dominguez International Chamber of Shipping Secretary General Guy Platten

This episode of the Lloyd's List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit https://veson.com/decision-advantage/ for more information. There is a very detailed series of policy discussions happening right now inside the walls of the International Maritime Organization. The question of whether the IMO can stick to its timetable and agree the basic architecture of shipping’s energy transition via a fuel standard and some kind of levy is of course important. It’s important in terms of demand signals to fuels producers, regulatory certainty for an industry in limbo, but it’s also going to determine whether we continue to have global regulation for shipping. If what the IMO agrees is not ambitious enough, shipping still faces the likely proliferation of national and regional bloc legislations to come. But what gets agreed inside the Marine Environment Protection Committee, is not the final step of shipping’s decarbonisation journey. It’s not even the starter. There’s a long list of practical and political factors for shipping to consider beyond an IMO discussion, and the industry needs to be preparing itself for a gruelling series of changes over several years. The bigger picture is that shipping is still not yet fully on the radar of the wider energy transition discussions like the Global African Hydrogen Summit that took place in Namibia last month. There are still a lot of dots to be joined between government, ports, fuel suppliers and shipping as one of many industries in the queue for green fuels. The industry is entering a phase that requires different approaches to its understanding of fuels supply and procurement and the coming regulation. The cliché “it’s a marathon not a sprint” is overused. But shipping is facing a decarbonisation ultra-marathon, and it needs to start training now.

Eric Christofferson is chief product officer at Veson Nautical, which is a provider of maritime data and freight management solutions to support global commerce. In this sponsored edition of the podcast, he comments on how data is reshaping how shipping contracts and compliance are managed.

This episode of the Lloyd’s List podcast is brought to you by Lloyd’s Register — visit www.lr.org/en for more information Law and insurance editor David Osler assembles a star-studded line-up at the International Union of Marine Insurance annual conference in Berlin to assess the strength of the market in 2024

In the long run, ‘doing good is good for business’, believes Natalie Sallaum, chief relationship officer at the vehicle carrier Sallaum Lines. In this edition of the Shipping Podcast, she draws on the company’s extensive experience of supporting community environmental initiatives to set out the benefits of being proactive about CSR and ESG

This episode of the Lloyd’s List podcast was brought to you by Lloyd’s Register — visit www.lr.org/en for more information THE multi-fuel future of shipping is looking more limited than it was a year ago. We know what the three major molecules are – methane, methanol and ammonia. But this isn’t a question of picking a fuel and supporting it as if it were a sports team to be followed blindly. Shipowners are largely agnostic and very pragmatic when it comes to options of the table. This is not just about the fuel ,or the availability of technology and engines, or the regulation, or the carbon pricing, or the offtake agreements and demand signals, or the fact that shipping is in a long queue of other sectors competing for the same supply of molecules – it’s about all of these competing dynamics and the fact that owners have to balance decisions that need to be taken now against the uncertain outcome of all of these factors. And in the midst of all that uncertainty the pragmatic view of the immediate choices available to shipping appears to be coalescing around LNG. Now that’s still a controversial view in some quarters –methane slip, a greenhouse gas 82 times more potent than carbon dioxide – remains a cause for concern. But LNG is a fuel in transition, rather than a transitional fuel, runs the argument. When you consider bio-LNG and synthetic LNG, and the ability to combine LNG with carbon capture there is a compelling case for the industry to now converge on LNG as the most pragmatic available pathway right now. Joining Richard on the podcast this week: Melissa Williams, president of Shell Marine Bud Darr, executive vice president of maritime policy and government affairs at Mediterranean Shipping Company Stelios Troulis, Angelicoussis Group energy transition and sustainability director

This episode of the Lloyd's List podcast was brought to you by Lloyd's Register - visit www.lr.org/en/ for more information. Should you wish to list all of the various risks, road blocks, unresolved problems and known challenges ahead for the shipping industry you will need a long piece of paper and ideally some medical assistance on standby. This is not a task for the faint of heart or those of a nervous disposition. You might start with some of the old favourites - supply chain instability, barriers to trade and administrative burdens on an industry ill-equipped to deal with them are all still bubbling away raising the sector’s blood pressure. Cyber risk, protectionism, the rise of the dark fleet, seafarer training and recruitment, autonomy…. the list just goes on and on. But, given the geopolitical upheaval that now threatens to blow up, on a daily basis, the risk hotlist is looking spicier than usual this year. How do we deal with this growing ‘to do’ list from hell? How is it possible for such a fragmented industry do tackle decarbonisation and digitalisation amid a fracturing geopolitical framework, on top of the business-as-usual risk list that threatens to scupper the best laid plans of those who carry global trade on a daily basis? Shipping’s post-Covid, post-Ever Given public profile has never been greater, but more importantly, the industry’s political capital is at an all-time high. This week, Lloyd’s List editor-in-chief Richard Meade talks to the European Community Shipowners’ Association, the Singapore Shipowners’ Association and international Chamber of Shipping about what’s on their agenda and where they see the greatest challenges, and solutions for shipping. Joining Richard are: Guy Platten, secretary general, International Chamber of Shipping Caroline Yang, president, Singapore Shipowners’ Association Sotiris Raptis, secretary general, European Community Shipowners’ Association

This episode of the Lloyd's List podcast was brought to you by Lloyd's Register - visit www.lr.org/en/ for more information. In China, shipyards that were distressed assets just years ago are now highly sought after. And if you happened to buy into some back then, congratulations; you likely stand to make a windfall profit. Shanghai-headquartered DCL Investments made one such shrewd play more than two years ago. It invested in restructuring bankrupt Yangzhou Guoyu Shipbuilding at bargain prices, becoming the yard's controlling shareholder in July 2024. Now this facility, with over 300 acres of land, 2 km of Yangtze river frontage, and four slipways able to produce up to 18 merchant ships annually, is generating positive cashflow by leasing to other shipbuilders. It could also bring DCL Investments a hefty return if snapped up by the next buyer. Behind this story is the unfolding of the latest shipbuilding cycle: orderbooks swell, ship prices surge, yards’ profits rebound, and capacity expands. But spectres of the past haunt: will rampant overordering end in yet another devastating crash? Those who lived through the order bubble prior to the 2008 financial crisis can’t help but worry about history repeating itself. Sanguine voices, however, counter history won’t simply repeat. This cycle still has room to run, optimists say, fuelled by fleet renewal demand amid massive levels of aging tonnage and tightening emissions rules absent in the frenzied 2000s. Meanwhile, the industry outlook is intertwined with various uncertainties. Can vessel earnings justify the rising ship prices? Can shipyards resolve labour shortages? Is the International Maritime Organization able to accomplish its green ambitions? And, will excess capacity expansion re-emerge in China, the world’s largest shipbuilding nation and, disrupt markets? Discussing shipbuilding prospects on the podcast this week: Wang Linyu, managing director of DCL Investments John Cotzias, founder of Xclusiv Dimitris Roumeliotis, research analyst of Xclusiv Rob Willmington, markets editor of Lloyd’s List

What do I build? Where do I build it? How much does it cost? And when can I get it? That’s the checklist of shipowner’s questions right now as they consider newbuildings. If you asked a shipowner what they would be looking for a decade ago the answer to those questions would be pretty standard. If money was no object they would plump for the quality of Japanese yards, they would know exactly which engine was the most efficient for their requirements and the list optional specifications would largely be a question of cost and strategy. As we have reported in previous editions of the podcast, the shipping industry’s decarbonisation strategy is largely built on a fuel mix for which availability is low, energy density is low, capital requirements are high, prices are at record levels, consumer signals are weak, and the ownership structure is fragmented with no clear market leader to drive the new market offering. And yet orders have to be placed – regardless of the regulatory uncertainty, lack of supply, scalability of availability of technology or fuels, the fleet news renewing. Decisions have to be taken and inevitably the interplay between flexibility, efficiency, and yes cost, make for a complex process, that more often then not ends up looking like a series of bets more than a strategy. So this week I want to explore how the industry is thinking about these decisions. What’s the best ship you could theoretically build today? If money were no object and you could get on a plane and find yourself in a shipyard office withal the available specs in front of you – what do you go for? Joining Richard on the podcast this week are: Claire Wright, head of Hanwha Ocean Europe Nikos Tsatsaros, construction director at Lloyd’s Register

THE headline takeaway from the 2024 edition of the top 100 container port was a second successive year of muted volume growth during 2023 for the biggest container ports. The total tally of just over 690m teu handled by the top 100 ports represented a 0.8% rise on the previous year, continuing the trend of the ‘tepid 20s’ post-Covid with volume growth only marginal. Lloyd’s List deputy editor Linton Nightingale spoke to Drewry senior ports and terminals analyst Eleanor Hadland to look back on how the container port sector fared last year and how it has kicked off 2024. They discussed the factors that could upset the applecart, disrupt the sector and pose a problem for volume trajectory, including potential dock strikes and the result of the upcoming US presidential election…

Strict but fair. That’s the description of the Australian Maritime Safety Authority from retiring chief executive Mick Kinley. Some of the world's biggest shipping companies have been named and shamed by the regulator in recent years and their vessels banned from entering ports over sub-standard conditions or not paying crew. Speaking with characteristic Australian candour and colour, Kinley reflects on the progress made by the regulator he has led for the past 10 years and offers some advice to the International Maritime Organization where he has been a key figure for some time. As Kinley sails off over the horizon after 30 years with AMSA, Lloyd’s List sits down with him to talk about his role, changes in the Australian maritime industry over the past three decades and some of the global achievements the authority has had as it seeks to protect seafarers and maintain standards in shipping.

Concerns around security and geopolitics intensified at the end of last year as the Houthis began targeting vessels in the Red Sea and Gulf of Aden under the cover of a show of support for Hamas. Adding to the deteriorating situation was the resurgence in Somali piracy as some actors sought to take advantage of the chaos. Since November we’ve seen nearly 90 incidents related to the Red Sea crisis and multiple piracy incidents including hijackings in the Somali basin, and an uptick in events that could potentially become piracy attacks. This is all happening with various naval operations working around the clock to defend merchant shipping and uphold the freedom of navigation. Significant resources have been deployed in response to the Houthi attacks in the Red Sea, yet, transits through the Bab el Mandeb are consistently down 60% on normal volumes and ships are repeatedly coming under fire. But it’s not just physical protection. For shipping to be able to conduct threat and risks assessments and make security related decisions they need accurate information and insight. So this week on the Lloyd’s List podcast we ask: can navies protect shipping? Joining Lloyd’s List maritime risk analyst are: Commander Knut Evensen, Royal Norwegian Navy Mike Plunkett, senior naval platforms analyst, Janes Antonio Martorell Dominguez, Spanish Navy

A few hours after the containership Dali (IMO: 9697428) destroyed the Francis Scott Key Bridge in Baltimore, there were media reports suggesting investigators would look into ‘bad bunkers’ as a potential cause of the accident. The National Transportation Safety Board ruled out that possibility after its initial investigation. But this incident alone gives us a good idea about the perception of the bunker sector in wider shipping circles. To some, the negative image of the bunker sector isn’t surprising, as some of the court cases arising from the past couple of years’ contamination issues continued until very recently. The highest profile contamination incident occurred in Singapore in 2022, when around 80 ships reported issues with their fuel pumps and engines after receiving contaminated fuel oil at the world’s biggest bunkering hub. Bunker industry executives believe there is still room for improvement as suppliers must adopt the strictest quality standards, but they also argue that shipping companies must play their part and demand such standards to accelerate the process. Joining Lloyd’s List sustainability editor Enes Tunagur this week: Constantinos Capetanakis, chair of the International Bunker Industry Association Chris Turner, bunker quality and claims manager at Integr8 Fuels