Lloyd's List: The Shipping Podcast

This episode is brought to you by Wirana Shipping Until the opening decade of this century, shipowners were among the chief beneficiaries of what was known at the time as ‘relationship banking’. The market was dominated by a handful of British and German banks, who usually just allowed their ship finance teams to get on with it and didn’t ask too many questions. It seemed that there were few problems that couldn’t be sorted out over a three-bottle lunch at a rather expensive restaurant. If the top brass were ever sufficiently impertinent as to ask why leniency had yet again been extended, they were told they simply didn’t understand the cyclical nature of the shipping industry. Then a bunch of derivatives traders came along and spoiled the party. In the wake of the global financial crisis of 2008 onwards, shipping loans could be bought for just cents on the dollar and bad shipping loans even forced a number of long-established banks to close their doors altogether. Private equity rushed in and, by and large, lost its shirt. To repurpose the earlier euphemism, it simply didn’t understand the cyclical nature of the shipping industry and was never going to wait around long enough to get its money back. While European banks still lend to blue chip shipowners, many smaller and medium-sized owners have turned to Asian, and especially Chinese, leasing companies to source their S&P needs. For a while that worked, especially because the Asian lenders were politically mandated to keep domestic shipyard orderbooks as full as possible. But even that arrangement has been under strain in the last 12 months, thanks to tariff and port fee tensions between Washington and Beijing. So what happens now? If you need to borrow money next year, who is going to lend it to you and how much will you be expected to pay? Joining David on the podcast this week are: Stephen Fewster, global head of shipping finance, ING Bank Pankaj Khanna, chief executive, Heidmar Maritime Holdings Dimitris Karamacheras, partner, Hill Dickinson

This episode of the Lloyd's List Podcast is brought to you by Lloyd's Register - visit www.lr.org for more information. LAST week, Lloyd’s List held its Annual Outlook Forum at the beautiful Trinity House in London, sponsored by Lloyd’s Register. Having gathered a baseline of crowdsourced knowledge from Lloyd’s List readers, we invited a star-studded line-up of shipping’s sharpest minds to join us for a discussion of the opportunities and threats that will be shaping shipping next year and beyond. In a year dominated by tariffs, port fees, continuing security concerns in the Red and Black Seas, and the faltering of shipping’s decarbonisation drive, our panel reveal what keeps them awake at night and discuss shipping’s incredible resilience in the face of increasingly challenging conditions. Joining editor-in-chief Richard Meade on this episode are: Cargill Ocean Transportation president, Jan Dieleman Hanwha Ocean Europe chief executive, Claire Wright Lloyd’s Register chief executive, Nick Brown Zodiac Maritime head of regulatory affairs, Katy Ware Sky news economics editor, Ed Conway Download our Key Takeaways document from this event, including our Outlook Survey 2025 results, here: https://info.lloydslistintelligence.com/london-outlook-forum-key-takeaways

PRESIDENT Trump tops this year’s Top 100 People list and ranks as the most influential person in the shipping industry. But why? Lloyd’s List editor-in-chief Richard Meade and deputy editor Linton Nightingale discuss why there was only ever one decision to be made for the top spot and point out some other high-profile entries in this year’s rankings. The full list is available to subscribers via the link below: https://www.lloydslist.com/one-hundred-edition-sixteen Subscribe to Lloyd’s List here or learn more about Lloyd’s List Intelligence here.

In this candid podcast, Bureau Veritas Marine and Offshore’s cyber security technical leader Panagiotis Anastasiou outlines his concerns about what he views as shipping’s limited approach to cyber security and a need for increased awareness of its importance. His career-long knowledge and experience of cyber security arrangements in the aerospace sector — particularly with satellite technology — gives him an authoritative overview of cyber security and, for an industry that has autonomous vessels in development, he had expected to find shipping to be very advanced in its cyber security implementation and attitudes. Instead, he found that was not the case. His remarks include an example of a recent incident in which a service provider’s systems were compromised, affecting at least 120 ships. The breach was subsequently repaired but the full story prompts Anastasiou to observe that “we fall in the same hole again and again”. He says this is because of limited efforts to prepare for cyber security difficulties. In contrast to shipping’s approach, cyber security is the starting point when satellite systems are designed, he says. Controls, procedures and governance are built on that foundation, with ground infrastructure and component design following on. This approach should be common to all industries, including marine, he says. He acknowledges that maritime regulations now apply to cyber security which make it mandatory to take precautions, but he believes that shipowners and their system suppliers should go further. Attitudes must change So, he explains in the podcast that attitudes must change and he outlines some ideas about how cyber security awareness could be strengthened by better – and repeated – education and cyber drills that are backed up by companies’ tested policies on how to respond to cyber security incidents. He goes on to describe how a cyber attack on a vessel might be triggered by an attack on shoreside systems, given the growing connectivity between ship and shore and vice versa. Not only that, but the implications of a maritime cyber attack can extend far beyond the company itself, since any resulting operational delay could have an impact on an entire supply chain. Class societies have addressed cyber security concerns by developing two Unified Requirements — UR 26 and UR 27 — and Anastasiou was a member of the International Association of Classification Societies (IACS) Cyber Systems Panel that developed them. But he suggests in the podcast that these should be viewed as starting points for class societies to evolve requirements to match the pace of change in technology. As a response to his remarks, he encourages listeners to conduct internal assessments of their own cyber security and to reach out to their class societies for guidance to improve their resilience.

More than two years has passed since the hijacking of car carrier Galaxy Leader by the Houthis, which signalled the advent of a campaign of terror from the Yemeni rebel group on international shipping. In that time, several vessels have been sunk and many seafarers have unfortunately lost their lives. The impact on global shipping has of course been sizeable, with most key container carriers deciding to reroute services via the Cape of Good Hope instead. But Houthi activity has quelled in recent weeks, with no vessels attacked since Eternity C. in July, after a ceasefire was agreed between Israel and Hamas; the Houthis’ purported aim is to support the people of Gaza. Whispers of a return have grown into murmurs, with comments from Maersk suggesting a return to the Red Sea may be sooner rather than later. The Danish giant said it would “take steps” to return to the Suez Canal and Red Sea “as soon as conditions allow” after a meeting with the Suez Canal Authority. So, should we expect a return to the Red Sea imminently then? Joining Joshua on the podcast this week are: Ian Ralby, founder and chief executive, IR Consilium Jakob Larsen, chief security and safety officer, BIMCO Bridget Diakun, senior risk and compliance analyst, Lloyd’s List Take the Outlook survey here: https://lloydslist.qualtrics.com/jfe/form/SV_1X5A55mVBKM156m

CLIMATE diplomacy is not dead, but it’s not looking too healthy right now. A month after the International Maritime Organization’s Net-Zero Framework was put on life support for a year in the hope that a cure could be found, many of the same politicians, negotiators, non-governmental organisations, claques and hacks still reeling from that setback headed to Brazil for this year’s COP climate summit. A push by more than 80 countries for plans to quit fossil fuels ultimately failed, but states did manage a less ambitious agreement to keep the wheels from falling off. So where does that leave shipping? “Not dead yet” is hardly the rallying cry that will spur a generation of bold zero-carbon innovation and investment. We gathered insights from people who were in the thick of the COP negotiations for shipping, and where the IMO discussions leave us and what happens next. Joining Richard on the podcast this week are: Ellie Besley-Gould, chief executive of the Sustainable Shipping Initiative Katharine Palmer, shipping lead at the UN High-Level Climate Champions team Christiaan De Beukelaer, senior lecturer in culture and climate at the University of Melbourne and author of ‘Trade Winds’ Beatriz Martinez Romera, associate professor of environmental and climate change law at the University of Copenhagen Subscribe to Lloyd's List: www.lloydslistintelligence.com/products/…oyds-list Learn more about Lloyd's List Intelligence: www.lloydslistintelligence.com/

TALK long enough about green shipping scenarios and sooner or later all roads lead to Africa. Africa’s renewable energy potential, particularly in solar and wind, is vast and largely untapped, which explains why green energy investment in Africa is booming. Imports of solar panels, largely from China, are up 60% in the past 12 months alone. While that is from a relatively low base, the investments are coming thick and fast when it comes to clean fuel production. Given the collapse of the Net-Zero Framework at the International Maritime Organization and the context of a somewhat lacklustre COP out in Brazil, you may well be asking yourself: “why am I listening to yet another decarbonisation diatribe?” Regardless of the headline political headwinds, the business case for green shipping projects continues to be relevant. And if you’re looking for some optimism to get you through some admittedly uncertain times when it comes to shipping’s decarbonisation agenda, Africa is good place to start. This week’s episode of the podcast travels to Namibia and South Africa, via a green corridor into Europe, to understand why Africa could hold the key to shipping’s decarbonisation. Joining Richard on this week’s podcast are: Alexander Saverys, chief executive, CMB.Tech Jesse Fahnestock, decarbonisation director, Global Maritime Forum James Mnyupe, senior vice-president sub-Saharan Africa, Thyssenkrupp Subscribe to Lloyd's List: www.lloydslistintelligence.com/products/…oyds-list Learn more about Lloyd's List Intelligence: www.lloydslistintelligence.com/

OVER the past few months, our team of analysts has been quietly at work, giving our shadow fleet* watchlist a huge revamp. For those not in the know, the list identifies vessels that fit a specified set of criteria making them likely candidates for the shadow fleets serving Russia, Iran and Venezuela. As the sanction campaigns from the UK, US and EU intensify, the behaviour and identifying characteristics of these vessels has changed — telltale giveaways in 2023 are not the same in 2025 at all. With that in mind, we thought we’d bring on our two in-house shadow fleet experts to explain what’s changed and why you should take notice. Lloyd’s List reporter Joshua Minchin sat down with Lloyd’s List senior risk and compliance analyst Bridget Diakun and maritime risk analyst Tomer Raanan to understand how things have changed. Subscribe to Lloyd’s List here, or learn more about Lloyd’s List Intelligence.

WHAT happens if you don’t buy cyber risk insurance? Well, Jaguar Land Rover certainly found out earlier this year. The luxury carmaker was hit by a devastating cyber attack in late August, causing it to shut down its production lines for more than four weeks and costing it £50m a week. It only got things back to normal in early October. It was initially forced to withhold payments from suppliers. That is no small matter, given that the automotive parts supply chain, which famously runs on the just-in-time model, supports 200,000 jobs in the UK. It even had to turn to its bankers to secure a £2bn funding facility, which won’t have come cheap. On top of all that, the government saw no choice but to step in with a £1.5bn credit guarantee, simply to avoid the potential economic fallout. Other recent victims of cyber crime include Heathrow Airport and high street retailers Marks & Spencer and the Co-op. Many big players in the maritime industries have also been on the receiving end, from boxship giants Maersk, MSC and CMA CGM to ports giant DP World and top broker Clarksons. A recent report from IBM, which examined data breaches experienced by about 600 organisations worldwide, put the average cost of an incident at $4.4m (or £3.3m). What is clear is that cyber risk is a growing threat, as hackers becoming increasingly more sophisticated. This special joint Insurance Day/Lloyd’s List podcast will look at how insurance can at least mitigate the worst impacts for companies in both the maritime and wider business sectors. Joining Insurance Day reporter Queenie Shaikh are: Robert Dorey, chief executive, Astaara William Altman, director, CyberCube Stephen Wares, head of international underwriting, Coalition Subscribe to Lloyd's List: https://www.lloydslistintelligence.com/products/lloyds-list Learn more about Lloyd's List Intelligence: https://www.lloydslistintelligence.com/

This episode of the Lloyd's List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit veson.com for more information. SHIPPING has a serious efficiency problem. There is the obvious uncertainty and chaos within the International Maritime Organization-led decarbonisation plans. But this is not just a carbon efficiency problem — the current direction of geopolitical drivers generally are making shipping, and global trade, significantly less efficient. US President Donald Trump and Chinese leader Xi Jinping’s latest tit-for-tat trade showdown is just the latest in a long list of frictional forces making seaborne trade more costly, more complicated and less efficient.

One week on from the extraordinary meeting of the Marine Environment Protection Committee at the IMO, and many in shipping are still asking themselves the same question: what on earth happens next? Here at Lloyd’s List we’ve been busy gathering the thoughts of as many people as possible from across the sector to help answer that question. Earlier this week, Declan Bush explained what actually went down on a crazy Friday afternoon last week at the Albert Embankment, giving a blow by blow account of how the US and Saudi Arabia were able to successfully postpone the vote on the Net-Zero Framework for an entire year. But now we’re looking at what comes next. Can the IMO come back around the table next year and get consensus on the world’s first carbon price? Or are the divisions simply too great to heal? Joining Joshua on the podcast are: Arsenio Dominguez, secretary-general, International Maritime Organization (IMO) Tristan Smith, professor of energy and transport, UCL Emma Scheiris, deputy director of environment, INTERTANKO Stuart Neil, director of strategy and communications, International Chamber of Shipping For more information on how Lloyd's List Intelligence can help you navigate the emissions reporting landscape, follow this link: https://www.lloydslistintelligence.com/products/seasearcher/emissions

This episode of the Lloyd’s List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit veson.com for more information. Arguably the most important week in the history of the International Maritime Organization ended in stalemate after an extraordinary meeting of the Marine Environment Protection Committee voted to adjourn proceedings for a whole year. Last week was supposed to be the week shipping ratified the IMO’s Net-Zero Framework and in doing so become the first industry to adopt a global carbon price. Despite confidence that the yes side “had the numbers”, efforts to thwart the framework by the US and Saudi Arabia were partially successful. Lloyd’s List senior reporter and decarbonisation expert Declan Bush takes you inside the IMO and details a turbulent four days that could define the UN body and its ability to lead on climate change.

IN today’s episode, we're diving into one of the most significant transformations in modern shipping: how geopolitical tensions and supply chain realignments are altering maritime trade routes. From the implementation of tit-for-tat port fees between the US and China to the rise of Southeast Asia as a manufacturing powerhouse, the shipping industry is navigating uncharted waters. Today, we'll hear from three industry leaders who are at the forefront of these changes. In an era where regulations increasingly link vessel nationality to cargo access, shipping’s hard‑won resilience is being tested as never before. But for those who can successfully navigate these changes, the question isn't whether they're temporary or permanent—it's whether they can adapt fast enough to turn chaos into opportunity. Joining APAC editor Cichen Shen on the podcast are: SK Lim, managing director Pacific, G2 Ocean Jayendu Krishna, head of Maritime Advisory, Drewry William Khoury, vice president of ports and terminals Southeast Asia, DP World

IN THIS episode of the Lloyd’s List podcast, Synergy chief executive Jesper Kristensen considers two significant and timely questions: where is maritime leadership heading and who will define it? He tackles them from both an individual and an industry standpoint before discussing whether attitudes outside shipping are now influencing the sector’s direction. In the current climate of global regulatory and trade changes, the shipping industry is extremely volatile, requiring its leaders to be rapid adapters; “we need to be capable of accepting that tomorrow is most probably not going to be like yesterday”, he says in this podcast.

In this podcast, Veson Nautical’s Chief Operating Officer Sean Riley shares his thoughts on current pressures on market volatility. It is not necessarily a bad thing, he says, especially if data is used properly to understand its causes and effects

This episode of the Lloyd's List Podcast was brought to you by Veson. Visit veson.com for more information. In just over a week’s time the International maritime Organization will take what could be one of the most consequential votes shipping’s history. At an extraordinary meeting of the Marine Environment protection Committee, IMO member states will vote on whether to formally adopt the net zero framework agreed at MEPC83 in April. A yes would see shipping adopt the world’s first legally binding carbon price. A no would undo years and years and work and dump the industry back where it started. Lloyd’s List senior reporter Declan Bush explains what will actually be voted on next weekand outlines the consequences of a yes vote, and perhaps more pertinently, what happens if the answer is no.

FIGURES from the United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime suggest the annual global value of laundered money is between $800bn and $2trn, representing between 2% and 5% of global GDP. Much of this money is cleaned through trade-based money laundering, where criminals disguise the proceeds of crime through trade transactions to legitimise their origin. When that money hits a bank account, its links to say a smuggling ring or drug cartel will be masked, and anyone that looks will instead be presented with a legitimate transaction, say for the sale of commodities. With 90% of global trade transported by sea, shipping companies find themselves in an unwanted position of vulnerability. It’s of course impossible to check every container and grain hold, but due diligence still has to be performed. If not, the consequences can be severe, from a loss of reputation to even legal ramifications.

Singapore literally would not exist without the shipping industry. In 1819 the East India Company reached agreement with the local ruler to use it as a waystation for vessels carrying opium to China. Five years later, it bought the entire country for cash. Two hundred years later, it would not be much of a stretch to describe it as a powerhouse port with a small southeast Asian city-state attached. But until last month, the International Union of Marine Insurance conference had not taken place there since 2004. Even then, Singapore’s standing in the maritime industries was undeniable. But at that point it remained an emerging market in marine insurance terms. As the 600-plus delegates who assembled for this year’s event were told, that is clearly no longer the case. It is now the fourth-largest hull market in the world. Its share of the global hull book now stands at 7.9%, leaving it just a fraction of a percentage point behind the once-almighty Lloyd’s. Nor is it the only Asian nation to see its marine insurance presence take a great leap forward. China is now writing around 12% of world hull premiums and must now be counted as a core market for H&M. It also writes 17% of cargo business, which is more than Lloyd’s and the London companies markets put together. The late Chinese leader Deng Xiaoping - who died in 1997 - argued that the twenty-first century would be the Asian century. If marine insurance is anything to go by, he may have had a point. Joining David on the podcast are: Veith Huesmann, chief analyst, IUMI Sean Dalton, head of marine underwriting North America, Munich Re Alicia Leong, head of marine liabilities Asia, Markel Jun Lin, vice president, Gard

Why is the shadow fleet growing? Why do Chinese owners continue to sail their vessels through the Red Sea? And what happens if the International Maritime Organization does not adopt the Net-Zero Framework next month? In an age where uncertainty is simply part of doing business, Lloyd’s List gathered some of its expert analysts and journalists to brief selected guests on the key issues of the day during London International Shipping Week. Listen to the highlights of the event in this edition of the Lloyd’s List podcast. If you want to learn more, you can download the slides produced by our expert panel, featuring Lloyd’s List Intelligence data and figures. Featuring on this episode are: Richard Meade, editor-in-chief, Lloyd’s List Bridget Diakun, senior maritime risk analyst, Lloyd’s List Cichen Shen, APAC editor, Lloyd’s List Declan Bush, senior reporter, Lloyd’s List

On the final day of London International Shipping Week, Lloyd’s List reporter Joshua Minchin brings you the key takeaways from the week, alongside senior maritime reporter Greg Miller, maritime risk analyst Tomer Raanan and senior reporter Declan Bush. The three ask whether shipping could suffer from too much inefficiency, or at least the wrong kind anyway, and reflect on the policy uncertainty coming out of Washington at present. Plus, Declan offers his final take of the week on how the net zero framework will fare at next month’s extraordinary MEPC meeting. Will the US’ threats make any material difference at all?