"92% of enterprises say AI is a priority, and 78% also say they can't integrate it." — Juan In this Office Hours episode, Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza unpack the biggest Martech realities of the season: record-breaking BFCM performance and the widening "AI hype gap." From $10.8 billion in U.S. online spending (69% on mobile) to reports revealing that 95% of marketers want AI personalization but only 2% have delivered it, the duo exposes where Martech optimism meets operational reality. The episode wraps with a philosophical debate on attribution, why it's not a model but a mindset, and how every marketer needs a "margin for mystery" to keep creativity alive. Don't miss the webinar "Has Martech Failed Marketers?" on November 13, featuring Scott Brinker and Adam Greco. Hightouch's latest survey found that nearly 75% of Martech struggles are rooted in data, not tools or strategy. Learn how to fix your data to unlock cleaner reporting and true personalization at scale. RSVP at hightouch.com/has-martech-failed Timestamps 00:15 — Martech World Forum NYC next week and the launch of Melbourne 2026 04:51 — Black Friday & Cyber Monday: "The Super Bowl of Martech" and the $74B global spend moment 09:30 — From stores to platforms: the mobile commerce shift and why eCommerce needs enterprise-level investment 16:11 — The AI Report Card: 92% say AI is a priority, 78% can't integrate it — reality check from Zapier, G2, Hightouch, and Wharton 20:39 — Hightouch findings: 95% want AI-driven personalization, but only 2% deliver — the hype gap exposed 41:30 — AI decisioning vs. contextual bandits: semantics, strategy, and the need for real discipline 46:32 — Why attribution sucks: brand, politics, and the "margin for mystery" behind measurement Connect & Subscribe Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Engage with the community on Reddit and follow Making Sense of Martech on LinkedIn, and don't forget to like and subscribe on YouTube. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode! https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/question/ https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/confession-corner/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MSoMPodcast/comments/1morng8/office_hours_questions/
"Curiosity is the number one trait I'm looking for when hiring." — Brian Minick Jacqueline and Brian Minick, COO of ZeroBounce, get practical about AI's impact on hiring, email deliverability, and Martech operations. They unpack how AI is reshaping hiring, from candidates using copilots during interviews to the ethical implications of automation in recruitment. Brian shares how his gut helped him catch an AI-assisted candidate mid-interview, why curiosity and speed are the real differentiators in a digital-first world, and how he's balancing innovation with humanity at scale. Expect real talk on personalization trade-offs, customer data hygiene, leadership, and why curiosity still beats credentials. If you care about AI, Martech, leadership, and deliverability, this episode helps you cut noise and double down on what moves the needle. Brought to you by Hightouch, On November 13, Hightouch is hosting Has Martech Failed Marketers? featuring Scott Brinker of chiefmartec and Adam Greco to unpack what's really behind the pain and how fixing your data unlocks cleaner reporting and true personalization at scale. RSVP at www.hightouch.com/has-martech-failed Timestamps 00:28 — Early Martech Days: Google Ads, Analytics, and the hustle era. 03:12 — AI in Content: great for ideas, never for copy-paste. 04:07 — The New Deliverability: why engagement, not volume, wins. 06:25 — Curiosity-Driven Leadership: lessons from a selfless CEO. 09:37 — Using AI Internally: copilots, data storytelling, and guardrails. 18:35 — The Deliverability Gap: why no AI tool fully solves it—yet. 21:10 — The AI-Assisted Interview: red flags, silence tricks, and hiring truths. 38:23 — Leadership Without Ego: humility, speed, and follow-through. 43:28 — What's Next: AI-generated video and the future of short-form content. Connect & Subscribe Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode! Send them here: https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/question/ https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/confession-corner/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MSoMPodcast/comments/1morng8/office_hours_questions/
"You're supposed to be your customer relationship management platform of the era, and you're not listening to your very own customers." — Jacqueline Freedman Jacqueline and Juan dissect Salesforce's Dreamforce rebranding of all major products to Agentforce, the erosion of its once-strong Ohana culture, and Benioff's billionaire behavior. They unpack the AWS outage, explore operational resilience, and talk about how to overcome analysis paralysis. Brought to you by Hightouch On November 13, Hightouch is hosting Has Martech Failed Marketers? featuring Scott Brinker of chiefmartec and Adam Greco to unpack what's really behind the pain and how fixing your data unlocks cleaner reporting and true personalization at scale. RSVP at www.hightouch.com/has-martech-failed Timestamps 00:23 — Scott Brinker's "You Are the Change Agent" for Martech World Forum. 02:53 — Making QBRs (Quarterly Business Reviews) fun with a "meme wall". 06:41 — What happened to "Ohana" at Salesforce/Dreamforce?. 09:11 — Salesforce product renaming: The "Agent Force" trend. 19:26 — The massive AWS Outage felt by companies globally. 26:01 — Hot Take: Alan Trevor on using AI decisioning backwards. 34:49 — Office Hours Question: Overcoming analysis paralysis. 37:37 — The connection between analysis paralysis and a lack of courage/risk-taking. 40:07 — Confession Corner: Forgetting an elevator pitch in front of the CEO. Connect & Subscribe Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions — we may feature you in an upcoming episode! Send them here: https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/question/ https://themartechweekly.com/podcast/confession-corner/ https://www.reddit.com/r/MSoMPodcast/comments/1morng8/office_hours_questions/
"Marketing engineers are the lovechild of marketers, product managers, and software engineers — they're the Avengers of your Martech stack." - Neha Dadbhawala Join Jacqueline and Neha, Head of Martech at SEEK, to unpack how the role of the marketing engineer is reshaping the future of digital transformation. Neha shares her insights on bridging strategy and execution, building operational readiness, and applying systems thinking to deliver scalable marketing outcomes. From the rise of AI to managing legacy tech, Neha reveals what it takes to drive meaningful innovation across marketing, technology, and customer experience. Key Insights Discover the Rise of the Marketing Engineer Learn the 70-20-10 Rule for Operational Readiness Explore System-Level Thinking Bridge the Marketing–Tech Divide Navigate Legacy Systems with Agility Build the Future Martech Leader Timestamps 00:30 — Rapid-Fire Intro: Neha's favorite Martech tool, the "build vs. buy" dilemma, and her least-favorite buzzword: "hyper-personalization." 3:30 — Defining the Marketing Engineer: The evolution from technologist to system architect and problem solver. 7:00 — Skills for the Future: Systems thinking, product mindset, and emotional intelligence as core leadership traits. 9:30 — Operational Readiness & the 70-20-10 Rule: How to plan for change and innovation simultaneously. 14:00 — Agility in Legacy Systems: Managing tech debt while maintaining scalability and speed. 18:30 — Breaking Silos: Why shared data definitions and transparent priorities unlock collaboration. 25:00 — The Future of Martech Careers: How marketing engineers can evolve into CMOs, Chief Growth Officers, and beyond. Connect & Subscribe Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions — we may feature you in an upcoming episode! Brought to you by Hightouch - the leading composable CDP and decisioning platform trusted by brands like Domino's, Chime, and Aritzia. 90% of customers have a real use case live within their first week, delivering world-class personalization at scale. Learn more at www.hightouch.com/msom.
"Don't be the Taylor Swift of Martech." - Jacqueline Freedman Jacqueline and Juan break down three of the latest Martech moments: Braze's all-in AI decisioning push, Zeta Global's acquisition of Marigold, and what Taylor Swift's marketing playbook reveals about loyalty and fandom. Drawing from recent Martech World Forum events in London and San Francisco, they cut through the hype around AI, vendor economics, and what real enterprise teams are actually doing to make Martech work. Highlights Discover how Taylor Swift's variant strategy rewrites loyalty and first-party data engagement. Learn why most AI decisioning pilots stall—and how to tell if your org is ready. Understand what the Zeta–Marigold deal says about Martech consolidation and the future of loyalty tech. Explore how enterprise teams turn "global rollouts" into many small, scalable wins. Hear why authenticity and data discipline still beat automation and hype. This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our sponsor Hightouch. This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our sponsor Hightouch. Looking for a smarter way to activate your customer data? See what Hightouch can do for you at hightouch.com/msom. Timestamps3:25 — Lessons from HSBC & Tailored Brands (Men's Wearhouse) on rolling out AI at scale. 7:12 — Braze's AI Decisioning: Analyzing the early use cases and the hard truth about ROI. 10:28 — Vendor rush: CDPs, decisioning, and the hidden cost of data operations. 14:04 — The Real Cost of AI: Why governance and data readiness are the biggest factors in Total Cost of Ownership (TCO). 16:34 — Zeta Global acquires Marigold: strategy, price, and implications. 21:01 — The Taylor Swift Effect: loyalty, data, fandom economics, and corporate greed. 28:37 — Office Hours Q&A: Do you think the real power of a show like this is in analyzing the companies—or in challenging how the industry itself thinks about using (or refusing) AI in daily work? Connect & Subscribe: Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions — we may feature you in an upcoming episode!
"There's a big difference between consent and attention — you still have to earn the attention." - Lauren Meyer Lauren Meyer, CMO of SocketLabs, joins Jacqueline Freedman on The Hot Seat to discuss what marketers get wrong about email. She shares how to earn real engagement, why "inbox placement rate" is a lie, and how to prove email's value inside your org. A must-listen for anyone in marketing ops, lifecycle, or Martech leadership who wants to make smarter, data-backed email decisions. This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our sponsor Hightouch. Looking for a smarter way to activate your customer data? See what Hightouch can do for you at hightouch.com/msom. Highlights Learn why consent alone isn't enough and how to earn lasting attention. Discover how to win internal buy-in with small, proof-of-concept projects. Understand why marketers must accept churn and stay consistent. Cut through noisy metrics and drop "inbox placement rate" from your reports. Get smart about measuring engagement post-MPP using replies, site visits, and revenue. Spot vendor red flags: no one can "guarantee" inbox placement. Episode Breakdown 2:16 — Epic Fail Story: The migration mistake that led to 3,000 spam complaints and a deliverability meltdown. 8:15 — The Consent Myth: Why consent is just the handshake and attention is the real battle. 12:54 — Fighting for Email: How to advocate for email internally with small proof-of-concept wins. 15:08 — Data Hygiene: The B2B vs. B2C data gap and why you should offer personal email sign-ups. 17:52 — Data Overload: Why giving marketers too much data leads to paralysis and bad assumptions. 19:52 — The Metric to Ban: Why "Inbox Placement Rate" is unreliable and based on robot "seed testing." 22:06 — Vendor Red Flags: What to ask about human support and why no one can guarantee inbox placement. 25:02 — Post-APP World: How to measure engagement through conversions, replies, and site visits, not opens. 33:09 — AI Limits: The doctor vs. over-the-counter analogy for AI in deliverability. Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode!
"No one's data is perfect. I think the biggest challenge though ends up being more people, because what often happens is that companies of a certain scale, marketing orgs of a certain scale, oftentimes we start adding on products or new verticals and we hire marketers to be in charge of those specific products or verticals, and they work in these silos and isolation of each other." - Natalie Miles Fuerst In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we sit down with Natalie Miles, Staff Product Manager for Martech at Grammarly and former Head of Martech at Chime and Credit Karma. She is an expert in managing massive data volumes, driving scalable personalization, and assembling composable marketing technology stacks. This is a must-listen for leaders and practitioners navigating the complex world of high-volume email, the composable CDP space, and the ever-present "build vs. buy" debate in the age of generative AI. This episode wouldn't have been possible without the help of our sponsor, Hightouch. Looking for a smarter way to activate your customer data? See what Hightouch can do for you at hightouch.com/msom. Highlights Learn the biggest challenge of scaling audience segmentation and deliverability to billions of emails per year, and why it's a "people problem" before a data problem. Hear a hilarious and painful "epic fail" story involving a compliance email, a financial services company, and a sex hotline. Understand the pros and cons of warehouse-native (composable) CDPs versus traditional, off-the-shelf solutions, and why the term "CDP" is fuzzy. Discover the key difference between real-time and batch data delivery and how to decide what your use case truly needs. Natalie's "dream scenario" tech stack for a high-volume, modern company, including her top picks for reverse ETL and ESPs. Learn how to define a North Star metric that aligns with customer engagement signals with long-term LTV and business outcomes. Episode Breakdown 00:01:35 - Rapid Fire: Night Owl, Favorite Martech Tool (It's not an ESP), and Vibe Coding. 00:03:43 - Professional Admiration: Why Credit Karma's marketing cohort was a special "incubator." 00:05:33 - Epic Fail: The compliance email, the phone number, and the sex hotline. 00:09:20 - Reversing a Major Martech Decision: When a personalization tool isn't worth the price. 00:11:29 - Scaling to Billions of Emails: The challenge of data hygiene vs. the people problem. 00:15:54 - Composable CDPs: Deciding between real-time bvs. batch data. 00:20:20 - Predictions: The future of composability and why "CDP" is a fuzzy term. 00:26:02 - The Age-Old Questions: Build vs. Buy in the age of Generative AI. 00:31:48 - Aligning Customer Engagement: How to define a North Star Metric that drives LTV. 00:35:53 - The Dream Martech Stack: Natalie's top picks for a high-volume, modern comapny. 00:39:25 - The AI Risk: Why you don't want to be the "first adopter" of an AI-powered ESP. Key Takeaways The biggest Scaling Challenge is Organizational: At high volume, the main issue isn't data quality but the "tragedy of the commons" where siloed teams send overlapping campaigns, leading to user fatigue and churn. Having an "air traffic control" function is crucial. Composability Solves for Alignment: The fuzzy definition of "CDP" and it's high cost highlight the need for composability. The warehouse-native approach is "very bullish" because the underlying data should be the single source of truth for both marketing and product/finance. Build vs. Buy is Fluid: The decision has historically leaned toward buying third- party tools because in-house development often results in difficult-to-use and unreliable tools, diverting precious engineering resources from core product capabilities. However, the emergence of generative AI could dramatically change the "build vs. buy calculation". The North Star Must Connect to Value: A true North Star metric should be time-bound, align with the natural cadence of product usage (e.g., daily active users for Grammerly) Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode. Hope you enjoyed the episode!
"I think a CRM is not a tool, it's a discipline, it's a system minimization of how we manage relationships across time channels and teams." - Karla Vince In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we host our first-ever debate to define what a CRM is and if the definition is changing as the line between B2B and B2C blurs. We're joined by Karla Vince, who leads marketing automation at Topcon Healthcare, and James Fang, Director of Product Marketing at Klaviyo. This conversation is a must-listen for anyone interested in understanding the history of CRM, its modern definition, and where it's headed. Highlights *Understand the historical origins of CRM, from ancient Rome to the modern cloud-based solutions. *Hear a lively debate on whether CRM is a B2B-only discipline or if a B2C CRM is a valid concept. *Discover how the term CRM has expanded to include marketing, service, and analytics, and if the term is becoming overextended. *Learn how the industry's perception of CRM is evolving and the potential for new definitions. *Get insights into how AI is poised to reinvent the CRM, making it more proactive and predictive. Episode Breakdown 06:57 - The surprising history of CRM, from ancient Rome to Salesforce. 09:28 - Defining CRM: Is it a discipline or a technology? 11:01 - The "C" in CRM: Who is the customer?. 12:38 - Where is the line? At what point is the term "CRM" overextended?. 15:17 - How do different business models and industry toolsets shape the definition of CRM?. 26:39 - Do B2B and B2C CRMs have parallels?. 31:12 - Did Salesforce's popularization of CRM elevate or dilute the term?. 35:11 - The future of CRM: The vision of a true 360-degree customer view. 42:12 - How AI will reinvent CRM and the role of personalization. Key Takeaways *CRM is both a discipline and a technology. While it has historical roots as a system for managing relationships, it has evolved into software that enables the management and analysis of customer interactions throughout the entire lifecycle. *The definition of "customer" is contextual. In a B2B context, a customer can be a lead, a contact, an account, or a partner. In a B2C context, it can be a first-time visitor, a subscriber, or a repeat purchaser. *The future of CRM is proactive. Instead of just being a record-keeping tool, future CRMs will use AI to offer predictive triggers, smarter workflows, and conversational intelligence. *Competition is pushing innovation. New players and changing business models are putting pressure on traditional CRM giants to evolve, leading to new developments and improvements in their core products. Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode!
"If you empower your team to make their own decisions, they're just more motivated—and that drives great outcomes." - Adrian Rohr In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, we sit down with Adrian Rohr, VP of Marketing CRM at Fabletics, to uncover how one of the world's leading activewear brands is redefining customer engagement in-house with AI-powered CRM and omnichannel personalization. This conversation is a must-listen for marketing leaders curious about AI orchestration, CRM transformation, and building high-performing in-house teams. Highlights Discover how Fabletics built a proprietary tech stack that powers everything from supply chain to marketing execution. Learn why Adrian believes AI content generation — not send-time optimization — is the real performance driver. Understand the competitive advantage of running your team entirely in-house with speed, flexibility, and institutional knowledge. Discover how the team leverages 250+ data points daily to drive personalization at scale. Hear Adrian's take on the future of lifecycle marketing and why marketers will soon become "AI shepherds." Episode Breakdown 04:54 — How "Silicon Valley meets Fashion Avenue" defines Fabletics' tech-first DNA 07:00 — Replacing fragmented CRM tools with a unified, AI-powered orchestration platform 10:20 — Inside Fabletics' team structure and culture of empowerment 17:00 — Why Fabletics keeps everything in-house: speed, control, and deep domain knowledge 25:30 — The future of AI in CRM: 1:1 personalization, omnichannel orchestration, and enterprise-scale platforms 31:50 — Optimizing subject lines with AI—plus where human oversight still matters 36:50 — Clean data, empowered teams, and advice for brands struggling to scale 39:50 — Looking ahead: AI shepherds, org chart shifts, and the need for a true "connecting platform" Key Takeaways AI is transforming content generation more than send-time optimization, driving significant gains for triggers and transactional messaging. Fabletics' speed, ownership, and flexibility allow campaigns to pivot instantly. Data hygiene and a centralized tech stack eliminate silos, creating an actual omnichannel experience. Over the next 1-3 years, marketers will transition from being manual executors to AI shepherds. Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions and confessions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode!
"We see the future of digital experiences as living — personalized and self-improving 24/7." - Josh Payne In this episode, Jacqueline Freedman puts Josh Payne in The Hot Seat to unpack "living interfaces," AI-driven experimentation, and what agentic marketing really looks like in practice. Josh shares lessons from collaborating with OpenAI, why most CRO tests fail, and where generative engine optimization (GEO) is headed next. We delve into enterprise realities, including privacy and governance, avoiding spaghetti code, and what a "living interface" entails. Highlights Discover how "living interfaces" adapt websites in real time to lift conversion and usability. Learn a practical framework for automating ~90% of the CRO workflow with agents. Understand when to start with global experiments vs. personalization to reduce data-privacy friction. Explore the rise of generative engine optimization (GEO) and why it will rival SEO in influence. Adopt guardrails: define measurable evals, keep specs specific, and stay model-agnostic for compliance. Hear what enterprises actually need from vendors: context, integration, and disciplined measurement. Timestamps 03:50 - What "living interfaces" are and how they create real-time, self-improving digital experiences 04:57 - Partnering with OpenAI: visual grounding, UI generation, and early access to models 11:25 - Why most CRO tests fail—and how AI agents flip the economics of experimentation 14:50 - What "agent marketing" means: automating workflows and scaling high-leverage loops 17:45 - Common AI pitfalls and why clear goals, specs, and evals matter 24:20 - Navigating privacy concerns and model choices in enterprise AI 27:30 - How Josh filters the AI noise and stays sharp Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions. We may feature you in an upcoming episode.
In this episode of Office Hours, Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza unpack the overwhelming success of their podcast launch, share details about the upcoming Martech World Forum London 2025, and dive into AI adoption, vendor dependency, and the evolving world of customer data platforms (CDPs). Highlights Podcast launch success & what's next: global reach, sponsorship buzz, and better audio quality coming January 2025 Martech World Forum London 2025: key speakers, VIP dinner, and how to network with enterprise leaders Vendor partnerships: the dark side of over-reliance Generative AI's harsh reality check (only 5% of deployments succeed) The future of CDP pricing models Hot takes: Pepsi's $57M AI ad vs Wendy's viral comeback Lessons from the field: failed CDPs, misfired campaigns, and confessions Key Takeaways AI hype vs reality: start with small, measurable pilots. Vendor partnerships should empower, not entrap. Treat customer data like a valuable asset: maintain, enrich, and activate. CDP pricing is shifting toward enriched profiles and behaviour triggers. Fast, authentic engagement often outperforms big-budget AI campaigns Timestamps & Highlights 00:00 - Podcast Launch Success 02:11 - MarTech World Forum London 2025 03:32 - Vendor partnerships: necessary evil or obstacle? 14:46 - Generative AI reality check 24:29 - CDP pricing evolution 32:03 - Hot take: Pepsi's $57M AI campaign vs Wendy's $9 clapback 35:17 - Pawan Verma on customer decisioning 38:03 - Question of the Week 40:51 - Confession Corner Why You Should Listen If you're an enterprise marketing leader or Martech practitioner, this episode will give you: Insider knowledge on 2025 Martech strategies Real-world AI lessons with measurable ROI Advice on avoiding vendor lock-in A sneak peek at the Martech World Forum 2025 Ways to Connect Subscribe to the podcast: Making Sense of Martech Join the conversation: LinkedIn – Juan Mendoza | LinkedIn – Jacqueline Freedman Register for Martech World Forum 2025: Event Info & Tickets Submit your confession or question for the next episode: Submit Here
"Design thinking isn't just about aesthetics - it's about solving the right problems with empathy." - Eric Miao In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, Jacqueline Freedman sits down with Eric Miao, Chief Strategy Officer at Attentive, to unpack the future of messaging with the rollout of RCS (Rich Communication Services) in the U.S. Together, they explore how RCS is poised to transform mobile messaging into an interactive, commerce-driven channel that merges personalization, AI, and trust at scale. If you're a marketing leader, mobile strategist, or just curious whether SMS is really dead, this episode will reshape how you think about messaging. Highlights Discover why RCS is being called the "next generation of messaging" and what makes it fundamentally different from SMS. Learn how brands like Spanx are utilizing RCS to achieve substantial increases in engagement and revenue. Understand the role of AI in enabling true one-to-one personalization at scale through messaging. Explore how RCS could disrupt customer service, identity management, and even AdTech as we know it. Hear predictions on adoption hurdles, carrier dynamics, and how marketers can avoid making RCS "the next noisy channel. Timestamps 2:16 – What RCS is and why it matters for marketers 3:22 – Game-changing features: rich media, carousels, and interactive replies 5:39 – How AI and personalization elevate RCS campaigns 7:42 – Case study: Spanx's 200% revenue lift with RCS 10:34 – Which industries are best positioned for RCS adoption 14:06 – Adoption hurdles: carriers, Google, Apple, and rollout challenges 19:18 – Preventing RCS from becoming "the next noisy channel" 23:22 – Global adoption and identity: privacy, phone numbers, and what endures 28:15 – Navigating privacy regulations, personalization, and zero-party data 38:04 – The future of SMS: fallback, governance, and avoiding bad actors Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions, we may feature you in an upcoming episode.
"The most important conversations about your career are happening when you're not in the room." - Jessica Vogol In this episode of Making Sense of Martech, host Jacqueline Freedman speaks with Jessica Vogol, former CMO of OfferFit, acquired by Braze, and marketing leader at Movable Ink. Jessica brings a practical lens to hot-button topics in marketing like AI, personalization, and vendor hype. They dive into what real personalization means today, why marketers should be skeptical of vague AI claims, and how to build high-impact teams without chasing every new tool. Whether you're in marketing ops, ABM, or leading a team through Martech transformation, this conversation delivers insight without the fluff. Highlights Why intent data and "agentic AI" may be overhyped How to define personalization in a way that actually matters What it takes to evolve testing beyond A/B How to lead teams that are AI-fluent, not just tool-obsessed Where the Martech landscape is headed next Timestamps 00:00 – Intro: Who is Jessica Vogol? 00:46 – Rapid Fire: First marketing tool, overrated tech, and ABM 02:50 – What "real personalization" looks like in 2025 04:12 – AI in marketing: Red flags and realities 05:39 – The risk of generic AI-driven content 09:52 – Is A/B testing dead? Why decisioning wins 18:29 – Hiring for AI fluency & strategic focus 23:20 – Martech consolidation: What's coming 25:32 – Final thoughts and guest recommendations Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions—we may feature you in an upcoming episode.
"The secret is you don't let the old man in." - Sam Allen, quoting Clint Eastwood In his first official interview as CEO of Iterable, Sam Allen joins host Jacqueline Freedman for an unfiltered conversation on leadership, AI, and the future of marketing technology. Drawing on lessons from the Marine Corps and Salesforce, Sam shares his philosophy of servant leadership, why AI should act as a marketer's co-pilot, and how companies can move beyond "vendor" status to become trusted advisors. He also reveals his strategic vision for Iterable's future and what CMOs must do to stay relevant in today's fast-changing Martech landscape. If you're a marketing leader navigating AI disruption, growth, or organizational change, this episode is for you. Highlights How servant leadership and radical transparency build resilient teams. Why AI should empower marketers as a co-pilot, not a replacement. The strategic vision behind Sam Allen's move to Iterable. How to win the AI talent war by prioritizing culture. Practical steps to strengthen marketing and sales alignment. Why Martech stack consolidation is key for long-term growth. Timestamps 00:00 – Introduction & Guest Welcome 00:43 – Rapid Fire Questions 03:42 – Leadership & Personal Insights from the Marine Corps 05:33 – Transition to CEO of Iterable 09:24 – AI & Innovation at Iterable (Nova) 14:11 – Ethics & the AI Talent War 18:04 – Moving Beyond Vendor Status with Customer Relationships 20:02 – Navigating Budget Constraints 21:07 – Standing Out in a Competitive Market 22:33 – Personal Insights & Martial Arts 23:04 – The Future of Marketing Technology 25:13 – Ethical Considerations in AI 32:31 – Advice for CMOs & Marketing Leaders 37:23 – Podcast Recommendations & Closing Remarks Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions, we may feature you in an upcoming episode.
Martech is in upheaval: welcome to your must-listen podcast to understand the current state of the Martech industry. In this Office Hours episode, hosts Jacqueline Freedman and Juan Mendoza dig into the corporate shakeups, shifting power dynamics, and AI debates that are reshaping the industry. From Yotpo abruptly shutting down its email arm before the holidays, to Litmus layoffs after acquisition, to Amplitude dethroning Adobe in the latest Forrester Wave, no corner of Martech feels stable. The duo also questions whether analyst firms like Gartner still matter and get "spicy" debating if AI is a powerful copilot or dangerous crutch for marketers. If you're a Martech leader, marketing ops pro, or exec marketing technology bets, this episode gives you the no-BS insights you need to stay ahead. Highlights Why Yotpo's exit and Litmus layoffs signal deeper risks in Martech. How to spot an "overripe Avocado" company and avoid relying on one. What Amplitudes's rise means for Adobe and the future of Analytics. Why analyst firms may be losing relevance in an age of distributed authority. The risks and rewards of AI: augmentation vs. outsourcing your thinking. Timestamps 01:19 - Trouble in Email Land: Yotpo shuts down its email business and Litmus faces layoffs after acquisition. 07:15 - The overripe Avocado Theory: How to spot when tech companies are past their prime. 09:36 - Analytics Shake-Up: Amplitude rises in Forrester's Wave, Adobe loses ground, and the future of analytics suites. 15:11 - Analyst Firms in Question: Gartner's origins, warning influence, and whether traditional authority still matters. 23:50 - The AI Debate: Is GenAI a helpful copilot or a "drug dealer" strategy that erodes critical thinking? 30:21 - Subscriber Q&A: Ben from Teachable asks about AI's impact on future marketing leadership. Subscribe to Making Sense of Martech wherever you get your podcasts. Leave a review, share with your team, and send us your questions - we may feature them in an upcoming episode.
Are you overwhelmed by the ever-changing world of marketing technology? Searching for clarity, insight, and insider knowledge? Welcome to Making Sense of Martech, the official podcast from The Martech Weekly, hosted by Juan Mendoza and Jacqueline Freedman. Each week, we break down the tools, strategies, and trends shaping the future of marketing. You'll hear candid conversations with top industry leaders in The Hot Seat, and get practical answers to real-world challenges in our Office Hours format. What to expect every Wednesday: The Hot Seat: Jacqueline interviews leaders at the forefront of Martech, surfacing unfiltered insights and deep analysis on the biggest shifts in the space. Office Hours: Juan and Jacqueline tackle the latest news in our industry and questions from our subscribers. This show delivers the same trusted research and clarity you've come to expect from The Martech Weekly. It's designed to cut through the noise, save you time, and help you lead with confidence. Subscribe wherever you get your podcasts to stay ahead of the curve—and don't be shy. We'd love your feedback or ideas for what to cover next. Links & Resources: The Martech Weekly Website: https://themartechweekly.com/ The Martech Weekly on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-martech-weekly/
From third-party to first-party: Building a better data foundation What do you think of when I say "tech start-up?" Those words probably conjure up thoughts of a small team working out of the founder's garage somewhere in Palo Alto, Sunnyvale, or Cupertino. The reason that image springs to mind is because that is how a bunch of the biggest and most influential tech companies started out over the years. But who started this trend? Well, it's not a plucky start-up anymore, but the answer is Hewlett Packard. Way back in 1939, Bill Hewlett and David Packard founded HP in a one-car garage at 367 Addison Avenue, Palo Alto, which is now adorned with a plaque reading: The Birthplace of Silicon Valley. A lot has changed since then: Far from their fledgling days when they produced audio oscillators (which Disney used to test the sound equipment for the movie 'Fantasia'!), HP is now a multinational IT mainstay. The original HP split into two companies in 2015: Hewlett Packard Enterprise for enterprise products and services, and HP Inc for its personal computer and printer business. The split between its B2B and B2C customers was reflected in its data architecture. Like many legacy businesses, HP found itself in a situation where it had separate platforms and data stores for commercial and consumer data managed by a plethora of different stakeholders, leading to a severely siloed data landscape. Over the last few years, HP has overcome these challenges by bringing together its fractured data landscape into a modern, composable data architecture befitting its history as the origin of the Silicon Valley mythology. To understand how HP went about this transformation, The Martech Weekly sat down with Kumar Ram, Global Head of Marketing Data Sciences, and Luis Alonzo, Head of Customer Data Strategy and Engineering. Kumar and Luis's responses have been edited for clarity and congruency.
Welcome to our very first TMW case study! Kicking off this series, we're featuring Rappi, the Latin American super-app that connects consumers with merchants that sell a wide variety of products, and drivers that can bring those products to their doorstep. The three-sided business is not only a logistical challenge, but also a Martech challenge. Rappi's array of marketing campaigns and offers, driven by a sophisticated deep-linking strategy, is crucial to its success. It did, however, lead to the need for an impossibly large amount of QA to ensure the successful delivery of customer experience workflows, ensuring that would-be customers don't fall off their buying journey at any point, from clicking on an ad through to landing in the app and making a purchase. Leading the Martech and Adtech practice at Rappi is Satya Ramachandran, who brings over 12 years of Martech experience to the table, having previously worked as a data engineer building distributed databases. In this case study, we'll walk through how Satya not only scaled the Martech QA process using computer vision and robots, but turned QA into a profit-driving initiative with champions throughout the business, rather than just a cost center. Satya's responses have been edited for clarity and congruency. Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else. Go here for show notes, links, and resources. Follow Juan Mendoza on LinkedIn and Twitter. Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else.
Making Sense of Martech's very own Juan Mendoza on looking ahead to the rest of 2024
A conversation with Tim Mason & Sarah Jarvis from Eagle Eye. In this episode we're joined by Tim Mason and Sarah Jarvis . Tim is the CEO of Eagle Eye, a leading loyalty and personalization platform and a top 10 TMW 100 global innovator. Tim has spent more than 30 years building loyalty strategies in retail, including working as the Deputy CEO and CMO of Tesco UK PLC. Sarah Jarvis is a senior marketer, also at Eagle Eye, and a regular contributor to Forbes UK. Both are the authors of the recently released 2nd edition of Omnichannel Retail: How to Build Winning Stores in a Digital World. In this episode, we delve into the multifaceted concept of Omnichannel, exploring its definition, and we hear Tim and Sarah's case for its importance. We also discuss the ethical considerations businesses face in the pursuit of omniscient customer knowledge, offering insights into responsible practices amid growing data privacy concerns. Additionally, we explore successful examples of companies implementing omnichannel strategies and examine the challenges organizations encounter when introducing omnichannel to their businesses, along with strategies to overcome internal hurdles. Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else. Go here for show notes, links, and resources. Follow Juan Mendoza on LinkedIn and Twitter. Listen on Apple, Spotify, Google, and everywhere else. You can find Tim Mason on LinkedIn and Sarah Jarvis also on LinkedIn