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Marketing Upheaval

Marketing Upheaval

Author: Creative Outhouse

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Over the last few years, what’s changed in marketing? Everything. Marketing Upheaval is a weekly podcast where Creative Outhouse founder, Rudy Fernandez, talks to marketing leaders about what’s changing, what’s working and why we shouldn’t panic. Each episode is an enlightening 30-minute conversation with experts from different industries sharing their personal stories. Visit If you're looking for creative marketing that leads to behavior change, we’re your people.
24 Episodes
Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. This is Part Two with Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a large nonprofit hospital system that’s in seven states. We’re entering a whole new era of hospital business and hospital marketing. And these two episodes address them. In Episode Two, we talked about how hospitals can become the Center for Community Health, what competition from companies like Walmart will mean and how you can use marketing to improve patient experience. And of course, how you do all this while maintaining patient privacy. Anyway, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Rudy Fernandez  0:51 What do you think are some major changes in terms of how a brand like let’s say Bon Secours Mercy Health brands itself? What’s changed? In terms of how you engage people with that brand,Sandra Mackey  1:04 So Bon Secours Mercy Health is the parent company of two brands that sit underneath it. One is Bons Secours. The other one is Mercy Health. And so we look at sort of the individual attributes that those two brands bring. And again, we start with research and understanding what drives consumers. What are their current perceptions? And where do we have an opportunity to influence those perceptions of services that are provided by the health system. And so for starting there, and truly unpacking the things that drive consumers, it helps us to market to consumers in a way that is about engagement, rather than what we think they want to hear that will move the needle. And one example of that is I think, in the industry, it’s been a long recognized practice in the industry that there’s promotion of awards, “we’re the best in this”, “we’re the number one in that.” We don’t say one of how many, by the way – it could be one of a thousand.. Rudy Fernandez  2:09 Yes, no, the chest thumpy stuff. Yes.Sandra Mackey  2:12 Yeah, exactly. In the top three…of three. You know, there’s a lot of self promotion around the health system that has occurred over time that I think consumers have gotten used to, based on research that we’ve done, consumers express fatigue around that type of marketing. Because there are so many of those awards recognitions out there. And I think that consumers start to question what does that really mean? Does that translate to a better experience? You know, who’s taking these surveys? Lots of questions that come up in their mind. And at the end of the day, what we have learned from that type of research is that those awards and recognitions are more about the health system than they are about the consumer. We have a shift in that philosophy. And we have really, you know, taken a completely new direction in the way that we engage with consumers. And what a concept we actually talk about the consumer, not about ourselves. Yeah, we want to be able to demonstrate that we understand what their greatest needs are and where they’re coming from and what they have gone through before they get even come through the door. And so our approach to branding has really taken on more of a consumer voice, I’d say than then we’ve ever done within our health system.View the complete transcript, images and show notes at: w Post the show
Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I love these two episodes with Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a large nonprofit hospital system that's in seven states. Now just for perspective, I read about healthcare, marketing and business for fun. So let that sink in for a minute. So for these two episodes, I recommend being late for work late picking up your kids, whatever you need to do to hear them. In this first episode, Sandra and I spoke about hospital consolidation and what that means for all of us and what that means in terms of marketing. We talked about how hospitals need to move more towards providing a continuum of health and what people treating healthcare the way they treat shopping for shoes means for marketing and hospitals. Our conversation was wonderful and actually a little weird for me. Let me explain. A few months ago, I presented to a small group of hospital marketing people my thoughts on the state of hospital business and marketing. I talked about how hospitals need to change dramatically from sick care to more platforms of health and how marketing can help them do that. It wasn't a very flattering talk. And at one point, I compared hospitals to going the way of Blockbuster Video unless they changed. And let's just say I didn't get a standing ovation. Anyway, when I spoke with Sandra, she was saying that her team is exploring many of those same thoughts, the ones I've been preaching to whomever would listen, she even made the Blockbuster Video comparison, which made me feel less crazy, and also gave me hope. The fact that this large hospital system is looking to a more robust future to serve people is exciting to me. Because with new technology, hospitals are in an ideal position to become so much more in the daily lives of the people they serve, and marketing could be core to that. Anyway, enough of all that, check out this episode. And welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Rudy:Hey, welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Sandra Mackey, the Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secour Mercy Health, which is one of the country's largest healthcare organizations. They have 48 hospitals and serve people in seven states. Healthcare is a category that at Creative Outhouse we're pretty passionate about. And Sandra and I have worked together and known each other for a long, long time. So I'm really looking forward to this conversation. Thanks for joining us, Sandra.Sandra Mackey:Well, thank you, Rudy. It feels great to be back together again. It's been a long time. I'm thrilled to have been invited to join you on the show today.Rudy Fernandez:I think one of the industries that has had even more upheaval than marketing is healthcare, and you're at the center of both. So what are some of the huge changes taking place with regards to healthcare and healthcare marketing as it applies to let's say, hospital marketing? View the rest of the transcript, show notes and images at: the show
Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. It's Thanksgiving and we know a lot of our listeners will be enjoying time with their families, or if not enjoying at least you're spending time with your families. Anyway, you can hear our next guest next week. It's Sandra Mackey, Chief Marketing Officer of Bon Secours Mercy Health, a hospital, it's in seven states. And we really get into the future of healthcare and hospital marketing. So whether you're in healthcare, marketing, or ever plan to just use our healthcare system, check it out next week. This week, it's just me with some brief comments about what we've learned. And as a switch to our regular programming. I want to talk about what hasn't changed in terms of marketing. Let's go with the theme of what we're thankful for. It's appropriate for the holiday. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. You're listening to Marketing Upheaval.A lot has changed in terms of marketing, but I'm most thankful for the one thing that hasn't changed. More on that in a few minutes. The first thing I'm grateful for is our guests, we released our 20th episode last week and man, we've talked about how customers have a deeper say in terms of brand, how people have lost faith in traditional institutions and why they're turning to brands to deliver their values. We talked about what's working and what isn't working in traditional PR and ad agencies. We learned about new technology and audience research. We learned about gaming music, higher education, food marketing, crisis, AI and martech, diversity and Inclusion, startups and 125 year old brands, B2B, B2C, and what happens when all these changes leave you looking for a job, and we're just getting started. So huge thanks to our guests, who have been so generous with their time and their brilliant insights. I've learned a lot from them. And if you haven't listened to all our episodes and want a little time away from your family, then go listen to some others. I guarantee you, each episode will give you something to take note of, it will open a new door in your mind. I know I'm better at my job because of our guests. I'm also grateful to our listeners. You know, when we started this, I admit, I had some pretty low expectations. I didn't know who was going listen to a marketing podcast. And what I'm seeing is, it's just amazing. We have listeners from around the world. Every week, we get more people subscribing, and sending us notes. It's just an extraordinary thing to see catch on and know that people are getting as much out of this as we are. You know, from what I've seen, our listeners and our guests have something in common. There are different types of people in the world. There are people who pretend to know things and maybe use jargon to hide the fact that they maybe don't know much. There are people who are afraid to ask questions because they're embarrassed because you know, you don't want to appear ignorant. Then there are other people, my people. People who don't know all the answers and there excited by that. I have a sense that our listeners fall into this group. And I know our guests do. Look at the list. They are CEOs, Presidents, CMOS, Founders - all brilliant and accomplished people. And you know what they have in common? They know a lot, because they're constantly asking questions. They're excited about the things they don't know yet. View the rest of the transcript, images and shownotes from each episode at Support the show
Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode, I spoke with Dr. Jonathon Halbesleben about two areas at critical points of change. The first is the university system and how people are accessing it, and the other is a completely new way to view work life balance. Jonathon is the Dean of a very successful college, the College of Continuing Studies at the University of Alabama. Nationally, distance education has grown 14% while traditional admissions have shrunk 3%. And that continuing trend is going to cause a tremendous shift in terms of how we view universities, and Jonathon shared his view of what the future might look like. He's also a PhD in organizational psychology, with much of his studies and publications centered around workplace productivity and contentment. It was an enlightening conversation about work life balance, and why we should stop using that phrase. It's a great episode folks. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. View complete transcripts, images and shownotes for each episode at Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Dr. Jonathon Halbesleben. He's the Dean of the University of Alabama's very successful College of Continuing Studies, and a PhD in industrial psychology. Jonathon has written and edited 13 books and published numerous articles. His areas of focus have been workplace stress, work, family issues and employee engagement. He's a fellow of the American Psychological Association, and the Society for industrial and organizational psychology. So we have two areas that I'd like to talk about today. One is the growth and continuing education. And the other one is the trends in work life balance. Two topics, one expert guest, thank you for joining me, Jonathon.Jonathon:Thank you. I'm delighted to be with you. Rudy: So let's talk about continuing education we have - overall nationally I think enrollments are down 3% in a traditional University, but in continuing studies are up 15 percent What do you attribute that change to?Jonathon: You know, I think it's a couple of different things. But overall downward trend in enrollments is some of that's just demographics. It's true in Alabama. But it's true nationwide where we're now moving into the period where we're getting to very close to being about 18 years post recession. Yeah. And that was a time when people were maybe a little bit more reflective about having children, bringing children into the world. And so we're actually seeing declines in like, traditional 17-18 year old students that would be going to college. That definitely helps explain the downturns overall in college enrollment. With regard to the more of the distance learning or online education and those increases, I think a big part of it has been that people, they see that that you can get a good education that way. That it can be just as good as that experience you might get on campus, the experience might be different. I mean, you might not be going to football games and visiting the strip or whatever on your campus. But the education itself is just as high quality, but the cost is often lower. Full transcript at: the show
Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode I spoke with Rob Kischuk, CEO of Converge. It’s pretty amazing technology that automates your digital marketing reporting. First time I saw it, I thought, whoa, this changes things. Rob gave us some deep insights into which digital channels are working, how they’re working, and how best to make use of the flood of data marketers have access to these days. Rob is also the host of the popular Marketing Agency Leadership podcast, and we talked about podcasts have affected his business. Rob is super smart, which will become evident as you listen to the podcast. And to be honest, editing this episode was tough because of all the useful information. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Visit our website for complete show notes, pictures and transcripts of every episode: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Rob Kischuk, CEO of Converge. It’s a brilliant marketing technology company that automates digital marketing reporting. Rob is also the host of the Marketing Agency Leadership podcast, which is listed in the top 15 podcasts for agency owners and executives. Rob was the one who inspired me to create this podcast. So we’re going to talk about both of those worlds digital and audio. Thanks for joining me, Rob. Rob: Thank you so much. It’s great to be able to join you.Rudy: Just for listeners. Can you tell me a little bit about Converge and what it does?Rob: Sure Converge automates the process of generating marketing reports across digital social, offline marketing channels. This is something people in some companies will spend days every week or weeks every month, doing the same thing, just a treadmill of reporting for their clients, we really want to help them focus on locking in the methodology in the data collection and make all that automatic, so they can focus on being smart humans and actually make good solid recommendations to clients using their brains instead of just using their hands to slap spreadsheets into PowerPointRudy: So what platformsRob: Really anything you can imagine. A very small digital agency might use very simple core stuff: Google Analytics, AdWords, Google Search Console for SEO, let’s say Facebook, Instagram paid and organic Twitter, that sort of thing. And then you can get very robust and complex into high end SEO platforms like BrightEdge, you can get all the leads into internal CRM data, or even custom databases depending on the needs of the client.Rudy: And I’ve seen it – it’s all on a dashboard. Yeah, easy to use, actually pretty cool. Actually you had a really nice story about getting funding from Mark Cuban back before you were converge. Yeah, tell listeners about that. It’s pretty cool story.Rob: Sure. So my wife decided one year that I was born in Indiana. She didn’t decide that but she observed that I was born in Indiana and I liked football. And that was the year the Super Bowl was in Indianapolis. So she got all of my family to basically pool in money for my birthday and Christmas that year. And when I go somewhere, I’m not really good at taking a lot of time off. I’m always looking for a way to do something that can move the business forward.Full transcript at: the show
How much do artists promote and get paid for their music? How does Elton John write a song? Matt talks about the music industry from a creative’s POV.Visit for complete shownotes and transcripts of every episode.Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. And this episode I spoke with Matt Still, a Grammy Award winning engineer and music producer. Matt has worked with people like Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Santana. He's worked with OutKast, Lady Gaga, and the list goes on and on - from legends to new artists. Matt and I have known each other for a long time, and I always enjoy talking with him. We talked about how he got started. We talked about the changes in music and the rights of artists, because Matt also advocates for the rights of performers and artists, which I admire. So I think people who make music have these magic powers that create this miraculous thing that profoundly affects us emotionally, makes us think and affects our lives. We talked about that too. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.TranscriptRudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Matt Still, Matt is a Grammy Award winning music producer and engineer. He's a national trustee for the Recording Academy and an artist in residence at Kennesaw State University. In his 25 plus years in the music industry, he's seen a lot of things change, and he's managed to change with them. So we're going to talk about that. Thanks for joining me, Matt.Matt: Thanks for having me.Rudy: So, I'm going to just for the listeners, start with shameless name dropping, if that's okay, because you're pretty modest guy, but I don't think you ought to be. You work with Elton John. Yes, you've worked with OutKast, Fallout Boy, Lady Gaga, Rod Stewart, Santana, Allison In Chains, BB King, Arrested Development, TLC. You've worked with Stevie Wonder and Patty LaBelle. Then it goes on and on and on. So how does a kid who grew up in Georgia and loved music grow up and become a guy who works with all these legends.Matt: Well, I've been in music my entire life. I started playing the piano and taking classical piano lessons at the age of four. So music was always a part of everything I did. And I never really thought about doing anything other than music. Yeah, you know, really, and I wanted to be I wanted to be the performer. I wanted to be the next Elton John. My mom bought me an Elton John songbook, but when I was a teenager. I think it's kind of ironic that I'm actually been working with him for over 26 years now. But I wanted to be the performer. And I remember when I was in bands in high school and in college, and we go into recording studios, and the recordings never came out sounding the way I wanted. Check out the complete transcript and shownotes at the show
How does a 125-year-old brand stay cutting edge? Kathy talks about UL’s purpose and structure to keep up in dozens of vertical B2B markets.View complete shownotes and transcripts at: everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I had a great conversation with Kathy Seegebrecht, the Chief Marketing Officer of UL or what used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. It's the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. They test for safety, security and sustainability. And the thing that amazes me is that every day you, me, everyone, we all use products and services they test. Yet it's not as if they're top of mind. So I wanted to hear from Kathy about that. I also wanted to know how you market a 125 year old company in new areas without sounding outdated. What's the secret to staying on top for 125 years? Spoiler alert, it's all about living the company's purpose. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:56 Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Kathy Seegebrecht, Chief Marketing Officer of UL, which used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. UL is the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. And chances are, you use products and services they test for safety, security and sustainability. In her four years at UL, Kathy has expanded and evolved the role of marketing there, and we're going to talk about that. So thank you for joining me, Kathy.Kathy Seegebrecht  1:21 Great. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited to talk about UL, one of my favorite topics.Rudy Fernandez  1:26 UL the certification approval - it's ubiquitous, and we all use products and services that you've touched somehow, just really top level: automotive, lighting, mobility, technology, building materials, healthcare, energy, utilities, financial transactions, it's everywhere, all sorts of consumer products. But here's my first question is: Given all that, as a CMO, who is your customer?Kathy Seegebrecht  1:51 We certainly have a very broad customer base. We service clients who buy products and wants to know if it's safe, secure or sustainably sourced. We have clients that sell products, who want to know if it meets regulations, where they want to sell it. And then we have clients who make products, who want to know all of those things. So our customers include brand owners, retailers, manufacturers and banking institutions. And that really just names some of the bigger client categories. We're firmly a B2B company. However, consumers are also really interested in what we do, and they benefit from our work, so thus you can see I've got the challenge as marketing all of those services, all of those various customer bases.Rudy Fernandez  2:26 That's really what I wanted to get into. That seems overwhelming. How do you reach your customers or engage with them?Kathy Seegebrecht  2:35 It's interesting because our customer base actually gets even more complex when you get down to the persona level. So we work with a variety, wide variety of customers whose titles range from quality assurance, regulatory compliance, workplace health and safety. The rest of the transcript is available at: the show
Visit for complete show notes, transcripts and images from all of our episodes.Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In part two of my conversation with Brett Bruen, we talked about - what else -  politics and the upcoming 2020 elections. Brett worked for President Barack Obama as the head of Global Engagement and frequently speaks about politics and crises. Hearing his ideas and how candidates need to communicate was awesome. He gets into what President Trump does well, that has led to his success in politics. impeachment proceedings, notwithstanding that part for me coalesced so many different ideas about the president and his brand. Anyway, check this out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:47  Brett, I wanted to take advantage of having you on the podcast to ask you about the upcoming political contest. This is going to be an enormous campaign season. So what are some basics every candidate ought to know in regards to crisis because you know, they're going to be encountering something.Brett Bruen  1:05  Oh, absolutely, I think you should, first and foremost, have a pretty intrusive investigation into not only things that you may have said or did, but what could, as we've seen so many examples recently of videos or audio that has been sliced and diced to suggest that you said something or did something, even if in actual fact you didn't. Same goes for your cyber security. And we saw this play out in the French Presidential campaign where the Russians engaged in this kind of tactics. They hacked into the McCrone presidential campaign emails and you know, you will often see companies and we've got clients that have very high tech secure communication systems, but their employees are still sharing information on personal email and personal social media accounts on apps that is very insecure. And so understanding those vulnerabilities and not just building better security protocols and the like, but preparing for those eventualities where you might have to be in a situation where you're battling against truly fabricated information. And how you do that how you ensure that you're not on the defensive as I think the McCrone campaign was. It's a case study that U.S. candidates should really look closely at to glean some of the ways in which they anticipated and they prepared for that. I'd also say the challenge these days of the media environment being so intense and so occupied with whatever is the newest new news, and it's tough to get in there and it's tough to try a breakthrough. We've seen presidential candidates struggle with this. The old tactics, the old tradecraft of campaigning really does need to be rethought. And I think Elizabeth Warren is one example of, her sort of selfie political campaign strategy of, just getting as many selfies as you can. So you're spreading throughout this social network of all of the people who've attended your events. I think you got to get more creative.Read the full transcript at: the show
Check out images, show notes and transcripts of all of our episodes at everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. Thanks for listening. I got a lot out of my conversation with Brett Bruen, President of the Global Situation Room. In fact, we had so much great stuff, we made this two episodes. Brett was the Director of Global Engagement under President Barack Obama. And he's worked as a diplomat in Africa, the Middle East. And he's advised on various topics, including national security. So he knows about crises and had some really brilliant ideas to share. In this first part, we talked about the ever changing world of crisis, or as Brett said, "risk has gone regular". His ideas about how companies can build up a "reservoir of goodwill" and forgiveability are for me, a whole new angle on crisis and risk management. And his idea that you can actually use a crisis as a chance to communicate or even strengthen your brand, man that's just great stuff. Anyway, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Brett Bruen, President of the Global Situation Room. An international consulting firm in Washington DC and Los Angeles. Brett served as the Director of Global Engagement under President Barack Obama, and also spent 12 years as an American diplomat in Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. He teaches at Georgetown and trains senior officials on crisis management. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Brad, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining me. So here's the first thing I want to get your thoughts on. As a society, we seem to be in constant state of crisis these days. Obviously, we have access to more information than ever before. But how do you think that affects people in their day to day?Brett: Well, I like to say risk has gone regular for private citizens, for organizations and for companies. I think we've seen numerous examples in the last few years of how brands have been challenged by upheaval and uncertainty, have been dragged into political, social, economic debates. And you know, my message to those who manage these brands is you know, the reactive days are over you have to prepare more proactively, you have to identify your vulnerabilities, track them, understand that when those indicators start to take up the appropriate responses not wait and see. Because wait and you will see. Instead it is about focusing on putting in place the kind of infrastructure that your company needs around those vulnerabilities. We call it "reservoirs of goodwill". What are those reservoirs you need to fill in order to have the right relationships, the right partnerships, the right tools, so that when that vulnerability is exploited...And let me just give you you know, an example, if I'm Chipotle it shouldn't be a surprise that this is an area that I have to be ready to respond to. And what was interesting I found was that it took Chipotle months to get to a point where as a consumer, I finally got in the mail certificate for a free burrito. Well, that's something we call a countermeasure. And you could have prepared that campaign ahead of time, you could have put in place all of the pieces, all of the research, the fact sheets, the elements that were required to roll something like that out, even if you don't know where, when or how that vulnerability would be exploited. Rudy: I love the term reservoirs of goodwill. I mean, that's fantastic. I think it lets leaders know that you have to constantly work to build your reputation. I love that term.View the complete transcript at Support the show
Visit for show notes and images of every episode.Hey everyone. On this episode, I spoke with Jeff Perkins, the Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile. It's one of the fastest growing companies in the country. It's an app that if it hasn't already, it'll change the way you park your car. Just a really smart guy. And I learned a lot from our conversation, he introduced me to a concept called velocity marketing, which is already changing the way I approach a client in new business. He talked about how CMOs can gain more support in the C-suite. And of course, what it's like being the CMO, at a hugely successful startup, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:42  Welcome to Marketing Upheaval, my guest is Jeff Perkins, Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile, one of the fastest growing companies in the US. It's a revolutionary app that allows you to find a parking space and pay for it. They have more than 15 million users. Jeff has worked on the agency and client side. He's had tremendous success with growing startups and building a personal brand. And we're going to talk about all of that. Thanks for joining me, Jeff.Jeff Perkins  1:05  Happy to be here, Rudy. Thanks for having me on. Rudy Fernandez  1:07  So just for listeners, can you give us a quick overview of what Park and mobile the company does and what the app does? Jeff Perkins  1:13  Sure. So Park mobile is the leading mobile app for parking in the United States and North America, we help millions of people around the country find and pay for parking and do it right from their mobile apps. If you think about the old way you would pay for parking. Oftentimes, there was that one of these meters that required change and coins, and who carries around coins anymore, right. So we took that process of paying for parking, we brought your mobile device, making it easy reducing friction in the process, and also letting you pay for parking or extend your parking time when you're away from your car. So it makes it just a lot easier than the old process paying for parking. Now we also offer parking reservations. So for sporting events, major events, concerts, you're able to book parking ahead of time. So before you drive to the stadium for a game or a concert, you will know exactly where you're going to park. So that's a really nice feature. It helps people hopefully get to the events on time reducing some of that frustration in the process.Rudy Fernandez  2:16  So I know the company started in 2008. But that's something that wouldn't, couldn't possibly have existed not too long ago.Jeff Perkins  2:23  Yeah, not in 2008. The reservations part of our business is relatively new, it's been around for just a couple of years. And that's something that we're working towards expanding, not a lot of venues, not a lot of parking garages actually offer reservations today, so but in the coming years, if you live in the suburbs, and you're going to drive into a city for meetings or an event, you're probably going to be reserving parking, rather than just driving in and aimlessly circling the block looking for a place to park, we think it's going to be a great way to help people just get from point A to point B and reduce friction in that process.Rudy Fernandez  2:58  This is obviously brand new category, what kind of challenges and present being a brand new category.Visit for complete transcripts, show notes and images from every episode.Support the show
Visit for complete show notes, photos and transcripts for each episode. Transcript:Rudy Fernandez:           In this episode, I spoke with Loren O'Brien. She's a comedian and owns a video production company. So we talked about humor, what makes something funny and when does funny become offensive? How does humor help brands connect with an audience? What brands are doing funny well and who falls short? Spoiler alert. She liked our humor reel, or at least she said she did. Check it out.Rudy Fernandez:           Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:                         You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:           Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Loren O'Brien, CEO of MO Video Production. Loren has spent a large part of her career writing and performing comedy in London, and loves to talk about comedy and marketing, which are two of my favorite subjects. So I'm excited about this episode, and thanks for joining me, Loren.Loren:              No worries. Thanks for having me.Rudy:           I want to break down comedy, since you've done that for a long, long time, and there's a quote by E.B. White. He basically said that comedy, you can dissect it like you can dissect the frog, but in both cases the thing dies. So I want to start with the most basic topic. What makes something funny?Loren:              I think it's a feeling. It's like music. Something can be technically funny, but something that can also completely break the rules. Memes are a great example of how that's breaking all the rules at the moment because you'll read something and go, "This doesn't make any sense," but then it's just the way it makes you feel. I'm trying to break it down in my head every single day, what I find funny, and why I find it funny, and I think it just has to do with like a feeling. Whether it's in that moment, whether it's something relatable, or whether it's just plain old silly. I think it's just the way the music works.Rudy:           It's creating some kind of connection. However you do that, and you're not going to create a connection with everyone.Loren:              No.Rudy:           But speaking of memes, a lot of times when I see memes, often it's things you wish you could say.Loren:              Yes. Something about online comedy is the voice in your head that you wish you could say to everybody else. I'm trying to do a lot more with my standup as well, and it doesn't work out very well in real life. People don't like that as much. You're supposed to keep quiet when you're talking to people.Rudy:           It is a strange time because our societal norms have changed.Complete show notes at: the show
The founder of Dialogue Marketing talks about the explosive developments in AI in marketing—what it will mean for customer service, client relationships and marketing agencies. Rudy Fernandez:           Hey everyone. This is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I had a great time speaking with Nora DePalma from Dialogue Marketing. She and I connect on several levels. We both own businesses, we're both very curious at a sort of nerd like level. So our talk about artificial intelligence and marketing was fun. We talked about how AI is changing the way we do our jobs and which of us will still have jobs in the future. AI is here, and it's being used more and more in marketing. So I think you're going to get a lot out of this episode. My guest is Nora DePalma, president and CEO of Dialogue Marketing. Dialogue helps clients create two way communications with their audience, whether it's a small audience or a big audience. One tool that's becoming fundamental to engaging with customers is artificial intelligence, so we're going to talk about that and her company. Thank you for joining me Nora.Nora DePalma:              Thank you.Rudy Fernandez:           One of the biggest changes overall in marketing has to be this idea that brands can no longer be pushed out to audiences. And I love that whole aspect of your company. It's a dialogue.Nora DePalma:              It's a dialogue. Yes.Rudy Fernandez:           Yeah. And there has to be a back and forth for customers because now customers have allowed a republic voice. So how have you seen your clients adjust to this?Nora DePalma:              The clients we see that are really doing it well think about branding throughout their organization. So the branding is not just the purview of the advertising team, it's your customer service, it's how you answer the phone, it's every experience and touch point that your customers have with you. And thinking through what that experience is. Companies that have that mindset and communicate that mindset to employees are the ones that are doing really well.Rudy Fernandez:           So how do you create that? And it's funny because I agree with you, I've always felt like the most important audience is your internal audience, because it doesn't matter what you tell the outside world if your people aren't supporting it. How do you create that sort of brand that's internal, external, everybody is on board?Nora DePalma:              First of all, you have to be true to it. I think all of us have probably had an experience if we've been in the industry or been in our careers more than 20, 25 years, we've probably come across a situation where a company didn't walk the walk that they were talking. And everyone knows that. And that just starts to develop distrust between leadership and employees. And that is a very outdated and going away kind of top down view of leadership. The first job of any leader is to build trust in their organization, to be able to get their attention and their interest. View images, show notes and complete transcript at: the show
The COO of Media Frenzy Global offers some frank observations on the real and superficial changes in the marketing world’s push for more diverse and inclusive workplaces.  Complete show notes and transcript at:               Hey everyone. I really enjoyed this conversation with Katie Kern who's a partner and COO of Media Frenzy Global. We talked about entrepreneurship and creating a personal brand, but it was the diversity and inclusion conversation that really resonated with me. Now, frankly, whenever I've discussed it with people in marketing, I usually get a vanilla sort of kumbaya response. Katie's narrative was very different and felt a lot more real and powerful. I'm really excited to share this episode with you. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Announcer:       You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:               Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Katie Kern, partner and COO of Media Frenzy Global, a PR and content marketing firm that's strong in the technology space. Before joining Media Frenzy, Katie owned her own lifestyle PR agency. She was selected to be part of the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses program to help train and support entrepreneurs. And she writes and speaks about diversity and inclusion, has won many awards. So really excited to talk to her today. Katie, thanks for joining us.Katie Kern:        Thanks for having me.Rudy:               The fact that you switched from fashion to technology, I thought, "Wow, those are real different." So do you see any overlaps, anything in fashion that helped you with technology?Katie Kern:        You know what's interesting? I think technology companies want to be in the fashion industry because we're the cool kids to a certain extent, from a creativity standpoint, everyone who wants ... Everyone loves the glitz and the glamor of fashion, and they see how fashion brands actually kind of go to market once a season. It's not once a year. Most technology companies, if you think about how companies market themselves, they put together a big marketing campaign for the entire year and then go from there and kind of deploy it. Fashion, we have to be a lot more kind of on the ball thinking.Complete show notes and transcript at: the show
Tim Smith of Chemistry on AOR vs project work, the Atlanta United campaign launchThe President of Chemistry, Atlanta talks about being named Ad Age’s small agency of the year -  twice, the challenges with client agreements and the most successful campaign launch in professional sports history. Full shownotes and transcripts at Fernandez:           Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode of Marketing Upheaval, I spoke with Tim Smith, President of Chemistry in Atlanta. Chemistry was named Ad Age's best small agency two out of the last four years, and we talked about that.Rudy:               We also talked about what's not working with a lot of client agency relationships and new business, and we talked about the most successful launch in professional sports history and what we all can learn from that.Rudy:               Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:             You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:               Hey, thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Tim Smith, President of Chemistry in Atlanta. Chemistry won Ad Age's Small Agency of the Year in 2016 and 2018. They do great work and have some powerful case studies, including the most successful sports franchise launch in history, according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated. We're going to talk about that. Thanks for joining me, Tim.Tim Smith:        Thanks for having me.Rudy:               So I know you worked at a lot of big shops and big brands and stuff, and then you worked on Super Bowl spots and everything, and now small shops.Rudy:               Well, first of all, why did you do that? Why did you go from the big agency, big budget to small shops?Tim:                 Yeah. So I started really right out of school, jumped right into the deep end and went to BBDO New York. Now, that was all big stuff, big budgets. I thought, "Wow, this advertising gig's amazing. We have huge budgets, and flying around, fancy hotels." It was fantastic.Rudy:               I only get to hear about that kind of stuff.Tim:                 Right. Sadly, I got to experience it just long enough to miss it. So it was great. Well, I always wanted to live in the South, so I kind of would go to a big ad market, come back South. Got to a big ad market, come back South.Tim:                 Then an opportunity came up to be a creative director in a small shop, so I had the ego to believe that, wow, this small shop, they've got a few clients and I've done all this big stuff, I can certainly make them big, that's not going to be a problem. Found how difficult the struggle was. So we did some good stuff. We won a lot of business and stuff, but it was on a totally different level from all the ones I was used to. But I really liked it.More at: the show
Full transcript and show notes are available at Fernandez:           Hey everyone. This is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse, and this is a really neat episode with Warren Kurtzman, the president of Coleman insights. And we first learned about Coleman when we were doing some research on media trends. They have lots of terrific research on radio, podcasting, and music on their website. So I wanted to learn more about that. Now, even though Warren and I just met on this call, I can tell you he is a super nice man and a patient one because we had some online technical problems and it took three attempts at this conversation before we ever got one that worked. So he's a prince. Now, the first two minutes of our conversation, the audio isn't great, but after that it's fine. So stick with it because Warren shared a lot of fantastic knowledge about the audio space. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.<Earcon>Rudy:                           Well, welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Warren Kurtzman, the president of Coleman insights. Coleman does extensive media research and they are experts particularly in the audio space. So today we're going to talk about radio, which is one of my favorite subjects and podcasting and music testing. Warren, thanks for joining me today.Warren Kurtzman:        Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.Rudy:                           So I know Coleman helps radio stations build their brands and, and develop content. How do you help radio stations, especially as rapidly as things are changing? How do you help them develop content and develop their brands?Warren:                        Well, we do that primarily through market research and I've experience working with audio brands. So we do a lot of consumer research where we find out what consumers like, what they don't like and what they perceive radio stations and other forms of media, including other forms of audio media providing them.Rudy:                           So radio has been around for a long time, but what are some of the changes you see in this space in the last, let's say five years or so?Warren:                        Well, that might take up the rest of your podcast. Quite a few changes in the audio landscape. The radio industry has changed dramatically. It used to be a highly fragmented industry and nowadays consolidated with, in most markets, three, four, maybe five operators running most of the radio stations. And the landscape in which a radio stations compete is completely different. Used to be that they had almost a near monopoly on the way people could consume audio, particularly as they were consuming it on the go. And of course today with the rise of streaming, with the rise of podcasting and other ways that people can access audio based entertainment digitally on the environment in which radio competing, nothing like it was just a couple of years ago.Visit us for more:<Support the show
Full show notes and transcript available at: Fernandez:           Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez, and my guest this episode is Michael Halicki, the Executive Director of Park Pride. It's a small nonprofit that's gaining national attention for its outreach efforts. Of course, we've talked about the importance of parks, but we also talked about how marketing professionals are playing a bigger role in nonprofits, not just as communicators, but as leaders and directors. We talked about how to bring diverse groups together for one mission, and what for-profits can learn from nonprofits. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:                         You're listening to Marketing Upheaval, from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:                           Hey, thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Michael Halicki, the executive director of Park Pride, a park advocacy nonprofit organization based in Atlanta. It's gaining national attention. Michael's had a long career as a leader in nonprofit organizations. Then we're going to talk about that and Park Pride. Thanks for coming on the podcast.Michael Halicki:            Glad to be here.Rudy:                           Michael, I follow you a lot on social media, and you visit a lot of parks and you tell people a lot about parks and I've learned a lot. What can you say about parks, especially local parks that are important, that we don't know?Michael:                       I think probably the most important thing is that parks are good for you. There's a lot of research that talks about how parks are good for your health. There's a lot of growing body of research that talks about a daily dose of nature and the idea that people need to get out into nature on a regular basis, and that when you don't get that access to nature, it has negative impacts on your physical wellbeing, social wellbeing, and psychological wellbeing. Parks are a place to do that.Rudy:                           Yeah. Do you advocate for all parks, big parks, local parks?Michael:                       We do advocate for all parks, but we really think that local parks, where you live, are something that everyone needs. So we keep track of things like the people that, in our service area, live within a 10 minute walk of a park, and we certainly like those signature parks, the destination parks that people will go to. But we think you shouldn't have to get in a car to drive somewhere to go have a great experience in a park.Read the show notes and full transcript at: the show
Complete show notes and transcript available at Fernandez:           Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez. My guest this episode is Alan Wilson, co-founder and co-owner of Tripwire Interactive. It's a gaming company that's grown to millions of users in a really short amount of time. Tripwire gamers are fiercely loyal to the games and to the brand itself. We talked about how Tripwire does that. We also talked about how gaming companies give fans a voice in designing mods for their product. Also, we talked about shooting stuff. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:                         You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:                           Thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Alan Wilson, vice president, co-owner and one of the founders of Tripwire Interactive. Tripwire has released ground-breaking games like Red Orchestra, the Killing Floor series, Vietnam, Chivalry, and Maneater. They have more than 10 million users and growing and we're going to talk about how they do that. Thanks for joining me, Alan.Alan Wilson:                 My pleasure.Rudy:                           So, you actually started with a game before you had a company, right?Alan:                            It'd be polite to call it a game. It was what we call a mod, which is where you take somebody else's game, hack it around and make it actually good.Rudy:                           But you won the Make Something Unreal contest in 2004.Alan:                            Yeah. It was originally intended to be a contest for amateurs. And as we discovered on the way through, we were the only amateur team in the top 10 competing. The rest were all pros trying to catch some extra cash.Rudy:                           Wow. That's when you decided, "Well, we should do this for a living."Alan:                            Yeah, well, I mean when we won the contest, we got a lot of press acclaim, we had, I don't know, half a million people playing the mod and we kind of all sat around and went, "What do we do now? We kind of better do a company or something because Epic's kind of expecting something." So we did.Rudy:                           The perception of a gamer is always the nerd in the room by himself in his mom's basement, but it's actually moving more and more female now. It's 56-44 male-female.Click here for the complete transcript: the show
Visit for full episode details and show notes.Rudy:               Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. On this episode I talked with Leigh George, the founder of Freedom marketing, a strategic branding firm in Washington DC. Leigh and I talked about what's not working with existing agency models and we talked about design thinking and evolving a brand and how brands need to fulfill a customer's mission and not the other way around. It's a great conversation about branding and really knowing your customers. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:             You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:               Hey, thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Leigh George, the founder of Freedom marketing, the un-agency. I first heard Leigh speak at a digital summit and couldn't take notes fast enough. She has some keen insight on branding and content, so thanks for joining me, Leigh. I really am excited about this podcast.Leigh:               Thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.Rudy:               You've had leadership roles in strategy at Ogilvy and other agencies and now you head up Freedom, which you brand as an un-agency. So why? Why The un agency positioning?Leigh:               I wanted to signal that I was different. And using the term un agency instantly gets people's attention. It's a, it's this big flag and it really invites conversations and questions, you know, why do you call yourself an agency? What's an un-agency? So it was a great, I felt it was a great way to get attention and get conversation going with people. Also wanted to signal that the way I do things in the experience clients have with me are different than what they would have at a traditional agency.Rudy:               So they ask you just kinda like, I just did. So what do you think is different? What, what do you think isn't working about traditional agency models?Leigh:               When I founded my company, you know, the reason I did it was because I sort of asked myself if I could work anywhere I could walk in any place and have the job of my dreams, where would I go? And I, I couldn't name any place. And so I realized that that there are a lot of things I didn't like and that in my own agency I wanted to try a different approach. So one is the billable hour, which I think is just, it doesn't serve clients and it doesn't help creatives be more creative. It really just drains staff of time and it irritates clients cause they feel like they're being nickeled and dimed. So I just take a flat fee approach and it's great. It has opened up a ton of time for me to work on my client challenges and it just makes it easier to build the relationship with the client instantly.Leigh:               And then another thing I think that I feel like it's not working at agencies is there's a lack of flexibility and I think that's tied to the billable hour, right? Anything you want to do that's slightly outside of what you talked about is going to cost you more. And I just thought, you know, that's ridiculous because there's no project I've ever worked on anywhere that's gone according to plan. And if you look at your own personal life, right? Nothing, nothing you do ever goes according to plan. Visit for complete show notes and transcripts.Support the show
In Part 2 of our conversation with Pete Heid, we discuss a positive creative atmosphere and collaboration with younger team members.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez: In part two of my conversation with Pete Heid, he talks about a really cool internal process called collaborative journalism. We talk about stuff like fried chicken, pool floats and how to collaborate with younger team members and to prove it, he brings in a couple of younger team members to help him answer some questions. Welcome to Marketing UpheavalEarcon: You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:  So we both acknowledged, you know, production type of first you need to be creative and wait groups or work together. The role of PR agencies, he's ad agencies. When was the point when you sort of dawned on you, oh, Shit's changing.Pete Heid:  Yeah, it's funny you asked that question. But I was at another agency and we were coming up with ideas and I remember the creative director said, I want ideas that um, don't feel like advertising. So we came up with those ideas and then when the client saw them, they just were ready to accept those ideas from a traditional advertising agency. And even though the ideas were sounding, you know, they definitely worked. They just weren't ready to do that. And I don't even know if we really knew how to sell the work. Cause it's like one thing to come up with the idea. It's another thing to tell. Well how do you sell it? How do you get people to talk about it? That's a whole nother thing. And how do you find the right, you know, it's not just finding the right idea, it's, it's almost like telling the right story at the right time and the right channels and the right channels.Pete: So all those things when they come together, it's really cool. In fact, we do something here we call collaborative journalism and it acts just like a, almost like a traditional newsroom, but we have it for different brands. So like one of our clients, they want this kind of work will form this um, sort of group where it's account people and strategy people and creatives and we all get in the room and we just talk about different topics that are related to that field. So if it's in the food industry, there is a topic about food or there's a trend, we'll bring it up. Or if there's something in say, pop culture that's relevant, we'll bring that up and then we'll create things to talk about or stories to tell. We find these stories within the brand and we do that once a week and then we pitch them to the client.Pete: And that's where that proactive thinking comes about. And you'd be surprised how much really good content comes out of these meetings. Billable. Well, I think there's a certain level and the investment that has to happen, but at the other end of it, you do have to get the client to pay for some of that. Sure. So if they're buying into this like collaborative journalism model, they, they, uh, have to offer some level of, uh, of investment themselves. See the rest of the transcript and show notes here: the show
In Part 1 of our interview with Pete Heid, Creative Director of Edelman in Atlanta, he talks about making the jump from a long career in advertising to a PR agency, how to spot a great idea and how to build a modern-day creative department. TranscriptRudy Fernandez: Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse, and on this episode of Marketing Upheaval, I talked with Pete Hyde, the creative director of Edelman in Atlanta, and actually we made this two episodes. He had a lot of insights and I love talking about creative. In his first episode, he talked about making the jump from his long career at ad agencies to now working at a PR firm. He also talked about what he looks for when he's trying to build a modern creative department in this crazy changing world. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing UpheavalEarcon: You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest this episode is Pete Heid Creative Director at Edelman. He's had a great career in advertising in traditional ad agencies and three years ago decided to go the PR route. Thanks for being on show, Pete.Pete Heid: Oh, thanks for having me.Rudy: So first I got to ask you what, what made you decide to go from Ad Agency to PR Agency?Pete: I actually get that question a lot from my advertising buddies. This is basically my answer. Um, advertising agencies were, were starting to act, so like PR agencies and I found that PR agencies were starting to act like advertising agencies. And when Edelman reached out to me, I felt like they were somewhere in the sweet spot in the middle. And it was from this space that I was seeing a lot of creative energy that was happening. It was producing all kinds of really cool work that really got me excited. Advertising kind of didn't feel like advertising at Adelman. They had done some really good work. Um, you know, at the time for that had won a recently a Cannes award.Pete: So I saw that and I was like, God, if they're winning Cannes awards, I want to be part of that.Rudy: Which one did you see?Pete: So that was for a work that a San Francisco office did for Adobe. Okay, got it. Yeah. Yeah. It was, it was pretty, it was pretty smart. And I'd never seen anything like that before. Yeah. But I didn't know I don't to was doing that kind of work. I was like, damn, I've been wanting to do that kind of work since I started, but we never really quite had the right opportunity. So that's kind of what brought me here.Rudy: So we, we both grew up in advertising. So what is the difference, do you think right away when you came here, was there a difference between a creative department at a PR agency and let's take the creative department in an ad agency?Pete: Oh yeah, most definitely. I think what I was seeing is that creative I'm in a PR agency was more of a support function. What do you mean? Well, uh, when I first got here and what I was told how things used to be was that, uh, the PR function, the PR practice would require, they would have ideas that were, requires some level of creative production and they would reach out to, they're almost like an in house agency at a company and a brand. And uh, of course they, that didn't interest me because that's not what I wanted to do here. Make this. Yeah, yeah. No, it's exactly, they would tell you how to think and you are just basically either hands. Yeah. And I remember when I first got here, uh, someone who told me just get used to not making things. I was like, what do you mean?Pete: And they're like, you make a lot of decks, PR decks. And I was like, no, I, I'm not here for that. I'm, I'm here to make things. See the full transcript here: Support the show
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