DiscoverMarketing Panes
Marketing Panes
Claim Ownership

Marketing Panes

Author: Window Treatment Marketing Pros

Subscribed: 2Played: 4
Share

Description

Marketing Interviews & Tips for Window Treatment and Awning Companies
65 Episodes
Reverse
Karen Lander is the founder of Drapery Design, a custom window treatments company she built from a one-person home-based workroom into a million-dollar business serving top interior designers and architects nationwide. With over thirty-five years of experience in design, fabrication, and project management, she has worked across multiple business models while consistently growing her company. Today, Karen is focused on sharing her proven systems, templates, and industry insights to help the next generation of window-covering professionals build efficient, profitable businesses.
Ann K. Johnson’s wholesale workroom, Sew Easy Windows LLC, Avon Lake, Ohio, was established in 1992. She is the author of The Professional Workroom Handbook of Swags I & II, and publishes Kitty Stein’s Price Your Work With Confidence! Ann offers private workroom training and consultations. She is a dynamic instructor for seminars and hands-on classes in workroom fabrication, pattern drafting, efficiency and pricing. She is a popular instructor for CWC, IWCE & WCAA.
Guest Profile: Anthony Ngucaj Anthony Ngucaj is the founder of Skugga Blinds, a custom window treatment company serving both residential and commercial clients. With a focus on clean, modern solutions, he has successfully completed projects ranging from private homes to large-scale commercial installation, including projects with up to 1,000 roller shades. Other Notes/Links: Follow Us On: Instagram pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6CEwmcFZEYs&feature=youtu.be Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT William Hanke (00:00) Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes, the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning professionals about what’s working in marketing, what’s changing in the industry, and how to grow smarter. Today’s guest is the founder of Skugga a custom window treatment company serving both residential and commercial clients. He built his business from hands-on experience in construction and installation and has grown Skugga into a company focused on clean, modern solutions. He’s worked on everything from smaller residential projects to large scale commercial installs, including projects with up to a thousand roller shades. What makes his story especially interesting is the evolution. He’s gone from competing on price through platforms like Thumbtack to developing a more strategic approach around pricing, efficiency and scalability with clear goals on building a business that doesn’t rely on him being on site for every job. At the same time, he’s balancing that growth with family life. including being a dad and thinking intentionally about what kind of business he wants to build long-term. This conversation is about growth, mistakes, pricing reality, and what it takes to transition from installer to business owner. Welcome to the show, Anthony Ngucaj Anthony Ngucaj (01:26) hi, how are you? William Hanke (01:27) Fantastic, I’m really happy to have you here today. Let’s jump in and talk about the beginning, like the origin story. How did you get into window treatments from a background in construction? Anthony Ngucaj (01:40) I have necessity to be honest with you. Our shade guy, Steve, who’s my mentor now, whether he realized it or not, but he is. so we will finish our projects and my dad’s name is Bill and the interior designers say, okay, Bill, you did a great job. Now we need shades, we need to sleep. And so my dad be like, okay, let me call Steve. Steve will be… available and everything and, and, but I guess he grew. it came to a point where Steve wouldn’t just be like, okay, I’m coming. He’d be like, wait a minute. How many shades are and how many are motorized? You know, he will have a minimum. then once the, if everything went okay, he’ll come. So at a time came where he wasn’t available, nobody was available. And then, I spoke to him and I said, Hey, we’ve got a problem here. You know, you know, William Hanke (02:18) Yeah. Anthony Ngucaj (02:30) we’re completing 99%. We gotta take the extra 1%. I have some experience, I worked in hotels, you know, and they teach you everything, shades, AC, elevators, whatever. And I said, you know what, I’m gonna do it. And so that’s how I got into it, necessity. William Hanke (02:45) Nice. Yeah, that’s great. You mentioned working with your dad before you started your own thing. What made you want to branch out and kind of start your own business? Anthony Ngucaj (02:57) ⁓ well, I did have an honest conversation with my dad because I’ve been with him since I was 15 years old, know, immigrant family, know, home, what you call it, family business. And I started as a translator. Okay, dad, you know, the customer said this, this, this. Okay, miss, my dad is saying this, you know, it started like that. then William Hanke (03:08) Yeah. Yeah. Anthony Ngucaj (03:22) I passed, started managing multiple projects at the same time for everything, everything. And then before you know it, I graduated my college in 2014 or so. So I was maybe 22 or something like that. And then some more time passed. The problem with having a family business is you get comfortable fast, you know, because you get into this assumption that, okay, I’m going to take over. But as time passes by, it’s kind of like, okay, I need to do my own thing. Do I have a future here? I had a conversation with my dad about this. It was uncomfortable. And we got to a point and we said, listen, you know what? I got to do my own thing. I’m married now. And so, that’s how I got started. It was a little uncomfortable in the beginning for sure. Because as you know, I started from thumbtack and it was just these… Tiny projects, one shade here, 50 bucks there, you know. And, but over time it just, as you said, evolved. Yeah, that’s how I got started. You were about to mention the early grind. Then it was, it was tough because my first customer, I lost her because we had completed the project. did an entire renovation, entire house, beautiful house. And then I go up there and I’m like, Hey, how are you guys doing? I’m here to do your window treatments. They looked at me like I came from the moon. They’re like, Anthony, what are you doing here? Yeah. I’m like, what I’m. William Hanke (04:53) Thank Anthony Ngucaj (04:56) I mean, here, do your window treatments. They’re like, okay, I guess do your thing. I don’t know. You know, and they were telling me stuff I’ve never heard of cellular shades. All I knew was roller shades. That’s all I knew. They were telling me cellular shades, Hunter Douglas, Gerber, something like that. I’m like, wait, what, what is cellular shades? I thought, I swear to God, I thought cellular shades was with the phone. I said, it must be something you can control from your phone. You know, but, William Hanke (05:09) Okay. What the hell? Fair enough. Anthony Ngucaj (05:25) I lost her because to be honest, she could tell that I had no idea what I was talking about. So that was embarrassing. But then some more time passed and I met and I had my first customer and I don’t remember her name, but she was maybe in her sixties who had been in early seventies and she had a problem with her vertical blinds. Right. And still, I mean, I was just like figuring it out and And I had told her, listen, miss, you know, I’m all about customer service and I’m trying to save you money. And I’m going to do the minimum that I can, you know, so you don’t have to buy a new shade or something like that. Cause I’m not here to upsell. I’m here to take care of you and your needs, you know, as I went by the time I, by the time I went through, had gotten there three times. Very nice lady paid me every time. And then it got to a point where I called Steve and I said, Steve, man, listen, I’m trying to fix this vertical line and it’s giving me a freaking headache. And then Steve was like, we should have come in sooner. I will tell you, waste your time. Just tell her, buy a new track. It had head rail. And then that’s it because, the clips, the carriers, whatever that carried the vines, right. They were broken. And because these were old fashioned ones to replace them. It was it just it was impossible, you know And so by the time I told her this she said okay send me a quote and like I didn’t add anything on top I just told her listen this size cost this much. just sent her a link and everything And then she said look, you know what to be honest you we spent so much money at this point that We’re just gonna leave it as it is, know what? William Hanke (06:54) Right. Anthony Ngucaj (07:18) Thursday, I, to be honest with you, if I could have not charged her, it would make me feel so good. You know why? Because she reminded me of my grandma who had passed away maybe like two, three years before her. Very nice lady. but everything’s a learning experience over time, you you evolve and you got to adapt that business to be honest with you. ⁓ well, business like that. ⁓ I know, ⁓ since a very young kid I’ve been in the business world. And I’ve seen two different types of business professionals, business owners, right? There’s the first type where it’s they’re strict. It’s, this is what I do, know, have a nice day. I’ve been doing it for 30 years, have a nice day, right? And then there’s the other one, which I’m not gonna lie, it’s more of the modern generation, right? where they analyze trends and they see, okay, I spent X amount of time doing this activity. Maybe I should switch around and do something else instead within the same market, To be honest with you, the way that things are flowing, things are changing so fast, technology, AI, you have to. you will be left in the dust and they’re gonna be like, what? Skugga who? You know? You know? They’re gonna be like, what? Nah, must adapt. You have to go with the flow. And I don’t remember the scientist’s name, but he said, survivor of the fittest, Charles Darwin. Talk about evolution. He said survivor of the fittest. When he said that he didn’t mean the strongest or fastest, he meant who can fit into any given… William Hanke (08:44) Yeah. Yeah. Anthony Ngucaj (09:08) situation best. That’s what that means. It’s about adapting to any situation, to your customers, to the market. It’s a lot, you know, it’s been a man. It’s been a journey. William Hanke (09:21) Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So speaking of the early grind and kind of getting those first customers, ⁓ tell me about the name Skugga. Where did that come from? Anthony Ngucaj (09:31) Gosh, that’s hilarious. First of all, that’s where when I first got the idea of opening a window treatment business, I told my wife and I said, you know what? ⁓ That’s it, I’m done. I got to do my own thing. And what I do know is Steve, he makes a lot of money, know, he’s not
Adam Culbreath Adam Culbreath, co-owner of Made in the Shade St. Louis, was raised in Wildwood, Missouri, and graduated from Eureka High School. He developed a passion for soccer early on, which he continues to enjoy today. Adam pursued a degree in finance at Murray State University, where he also strengthened his bond with his brother through shared experiences, including fraternity life. He has a strong sense of adventure, highlighted by studying abroad in Alicante, Spain and traveling to over 20 countries. After college, Adam returned to St. Louis to start a business with his brother, combining his entrepreneurial drive with a deep connection to his hometown. Dustin Yocum Dustin Yocum is the owner of World Class Window Coverings, serving Contra Costa County, CA. With over 20 years of industry experience, from manufacturing to retail, Dustin leads a team dedicated to building personal relationships, listening to clients’ needs, and delivering “World Class” Red-Carpet service. His hands-on approach ensures homeowners and businesses get creative, high-quality window solutions every time. Other Notes/Links: pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Adam CulbreathMade in the Shade St. Louis: Visit Website Dustin YocumWorld Class Window Coverings: Visit Website Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry.Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WK7WWPPIyA4 Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT William Hanke (00:00)All right, welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning professionals about what’s working, what’s changing and how they’re growing their business. I’m Will Hanke and today’s episode is our quarterly check-in where we zoom out a bit and look at what’s actually working in the industry right now. Today I’ve got two guests. First of all, Adam Culbreath Adam is the co-owner of Made in the Shade St. Louis, a Wildwood, Missouri native and a finance graduate from Murray State University. With a background shaped by travel to over 20 countries and studying abroad in Spain, Adam brings a global perspective to his work. Today, he runs the business alongside his brother, combining his entrepreneurial drive with the strong roots in his hometown. Dustin Yocum is the owner of World Class Window Coverings, serving Contra Costa County, California. With over 20 years of industry experience from manufacturing to retail, Dustin leads a team dedicated to bringing personal relationships, listening to clients’ needs, and delivering world-class red carpet service. His hands-on approach ensures homeowners and businesses get creative, high-quality window solutions every single time. Guys, welcome to the show. Adam Culbreath (01:21)Thanks for having us. William Hanke (01:22)Yeah, appreciate you guys being here. let’s start with something simple. How has Q1 felt for you guys so far? Adam, you want to start? Dustin Yocum (01:22)Yes, thank you. Pleasure. Adam Culbreath (01:31)Sure, it’s been kind of odd. It was a little bit different than last year, but kind of a more seasonal, know, kind of went back to the general season that I think window treatments have where January, February is generally a little bit slower. And then it picks up once the warm weather hits with, you know, the early spring stuff. So, you we had a pretty slow January, February, but we’ve since made a lot of that up just with the business from this month and last month. So, which is… William Hanke (01:47)Yeah. Adam Culbreath (01:57)Pretty similar to how we started when I first started the business, know, the first several, couple of years before COVID and all the craziness of the, you know, all that brought, but I would say this one was pretty standard. William Hanke (02:08)Pretty standard. And you’re in the Midwest, so we have four seasons in the Midwest. How about you, Dustin? I know California has one season, Summer. Adam Culbreath (02:13)Yeah, all the seasons. Dustin Yocum (02:17)Pretty much the weather was pretty consistent. Although we’ve had a lot of rain You know, which is great for us, but a little unusual. But yeah, similar like quarter one’s always a little slower And you know Right now we’re picking up so as it’s getting warmer people are wanting more exterior products We’re getting getting those calls coming in. So actually this month is we’re doing very well William Hanke (02:24)Yeah. Okay, that’s great. I’ve also heard it’s been really warm in California, unseasonably warm, so that probably drives a lot more of the exterior stuff. Dustin Yocum (02:46)Yeah, for March it’s been it’s been insane. yeah, it’s it’s the warmer weather brings brings people out wanting them to spend some money. So it’s been it’s been a good thing. William Hanke (02:55)Yeah. How does your Q1 this year compare to your last year? Dustin Yocum (02:59)Well, it’s very different for us just because we merged with a new company. we got, I can’t even compare any numbers to any season we’ve ever had. this is all brand new us since we’ve merged with Winduology. William Hanke (03:06)Yeah. Fair enough, that’s great. Congrats on that growth, by the way, that’s awesome. What has been taking up most of your attention lately in the business? Dustin Yocum (03:13)Thank you, Most of my attention, honestly, is just trying to generate leads and then put a system in place so that way we could nurture those leads and then handle those leads as they come in. So I think it’s mainly just working with the team and figuring out what we need to do so we can be consistent from start to finish for everybody. And we finally now have that team in place where we can do that. William Hanke (03:37)Nice, that feels good. You got the hiring out of the way, now you just have to work on systems. Perfect. Dustin Yocum (03:42)That’s right. That’s right. Every day it’s just improving. That’s I mean, it’s never going to stop. William Hanke (03:46)It never does stop. Yeah, the systems get better, but there’s always some sort of tweaking or update or something changes where you got to go back and redo something. How about you, Adam? What’s been taking up most of your attention lately? Dustin Yocum (03:55)That’s right. Adam Culbreath (03:55)yeah. Right now, I would say we actually have kind of been actually hiring some installers. So we’ve been trying to implement a little bit more systems with that, trying to train new people for installation. It’s the hardest position we found to fill consistently and to have, you know, redundancy and quality. you know, we’re… We’re actually losing my installer, which is my dad. He’s actually, he’s been working with us for, he joined us a couple of years after we started our company with my brother and I. And now he’s kind of moving on to another role kind of in the early stages of retirement, which is pretty exciting for him. So now we’re moving towards less family members into the business, which is nice, but also, you know, trying to create some processes where we can actually have people that are, you know, quality installers that can join into the business, know what to expect, know what to do. So kind of starting to build those processes around them so that way we can grow. Because we’re getting a lot of leads and we have a good salesperson, a couple of good salespeople now, but we’re starting to need to focus on the supply part of the business rather than the demand. William Hanke (05:05)Nice. That’s great. A lot of window treatment dealers are struggling to find installers. How did you guys find yours? Adam Culbreath (05:12)We’ve always found them from different methods, but for one, we actually used Indeed for an installer that we’re actually going to be hiring here at the end of this week, actually. But I found them through multiple different methods from other installers just referring us, as well as taking cards from handyman contractors that we liked. Sometimes when you show up to some of these jobs, you’re like, you know, the fourth or fifth guy that is working on another project in that house while they’re finishing, you know, some space. So, you know, with that, we’ve always just asked for leads and are also just asked for referrals from the client themselves. You know, did you like your guy? Did you like how they did this or that? And a lot of these guys know how to do and install a lot of different products. They actually don’t really mess with window treatments too often is what we find, but they are willing and interested because you can make a lot of money doing it. You know, and so it can be just a little add on. already have a lot of the tools. So we’ve been kind of pushing people that ultimately have some of have their own business and just want to grow, you know, an extra, you know, an extra thing that they can install to make some additional money. It’s a one day job. so it’s not something that’s going to totally rock their world. They can fill in, they can use it to fill in, you know, kitchen remodels, bathroom remodeling stuff, if they have a couple days while the drywalls, butters, they’re in or the painters are finishing. So, found that to be kind of a unique fit. We found some really quality guys to do it. William Hanke (06:31)That’s a great way to do it. Are you just 1099 those guys? Adam Culbreath (06:34)As of right now, yeah. So, but you know, as they grow and I think a lot of them like it, they see it can be simple, but there’s still enough challenge to what has to be done that there’s a decent amount of experience that needs to know like what you’re drilling into, how to fix stuff, how to cut things down if it’s needed to. But ultimately it’s a lot easier than remodeling a kitchen or a bathroom, you know? So it can be a good fit for a lot of people depending on at what point
Guest Profile: Lexi Schultz Lexi Schultz is a co-owner of The Great Curtain Company, a woman-owned, mother-daughter business based in Austin, Texas. With nearly two decades in the custom drapery and window treatment industry, Lexi has built a reputation for blending high-end design with real-world expertise, helping homeowners and designers navigate everything from fabric selection to architectural problem-solving. Known for her candid approach, deep industry knowledge, and concierge-level service, Lexi specializes in custom drapery, shades, and design-driven solutions that elevate how people live in their homes. Offer:As a thank you to the Marketing Panes community, Lexi is offering a complimentary Curtain Clarity Call for designers or homeowners who need direction on an upcoming project. It’s a short, high-value conversation to help you avoid costly mistakes and move forward with confidence. Simply mention the podcast when you connect with her. Other Notes/Links: Websites:The Great Curtain Company pssst…. want to be a guest on the show? Listen to other episodes Subscribe to Marketing Panes for more expert insights, strategies, and real stories from across the window treatment and awning industry. Spotify: https://bit.ly/4j20C49 ApplePodcast: https://bit.ly/4c2VN8s Video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9CcZVXdDzs Click here to display Transcript TRANSCRIPT William Hanke (00:02)Welcome to another episode of Marketing Panes the podcast where we talk with real window treatment and awning professionals. about what’s working and marketing, what’s changing in the industry, and how to grow smarter. Today’s guest is the owner of The Great Curtain Company in Austin, Texas, a showroom known to locals as the Disneyland of Curtains. Her roots in the business run deep. She grew up working side by side with her mom. We’re gonna dig into that a little bit. her mom who ran a decorating den franchise and then co-founded their own drapery business in 2006. Since then she helped grow the company into one of the largest curtain showrooms in the Gulf Coast region expanding from retail into trade services, custom fabrication, and most recently a new educational platform called Art of Drapery Academy. She’s a savvy sales leader, designer advocate, and unapologetic fan of American-made sourcing. Lexi Schultz, welcome to the show. Excited to dig into some of this stuff. There’s a lot to unpack here already, right? Lexi Schultz (01:09)Hey, well, thanks so much for having me. ⁓ I’m so excited too. I really appreciate you guys and I can’t wait to tell you more about our story and kind of how we work. William Hanke (01:22)Yeah, yeah, well, why don’t you go ahead and take me back? Take me back. How did the great curtain company come to be? Lexi Schultz (01:29)Sure. So my mom, Lauren Schultz, she has owned a decorating den franchise since the early 90s. So when we moved to Texas, I very, at a very young age was following her around at, you know, site visits and things like that, kind of helping her with books and things like that. And she had this franchise for probably a solid 10 years and she grew her franchise into one of the biggest decked-in franchises in the central Texas region. And after she did that for long time, she decided that she didn’t want to be a part of a franchise anymore. She really wanted to dig deep and do her own thing. So she did her own interior design for a long time. But as the early 2000s came around, she had decided, you know what, I want to go back to window treatments. Window treatments were always a passion of hers. And in my entire childhood, we grew up with the most extravagant swag boards and all of the OG 90s stuff that you remember, William Hanke (02:16)Yeah. Lexi Schultz (02:19)know, wallpapered drapes, wallpapered walls, wallpapered everything and draperies that match. And so I grew up with a love of the same textiles and just the overall craftsmanship that go into this. So in the early 2000s, she decided, you know what, I’m done with doing interior design exclusively. I just want to do window treatments again. And she built this storefront from scratch in 2006. And as I was graduating high school, I had kind of two paths to choose. You I could either kind of go along with what I thought I was going to do, which was graphic design. and I’ve been noodling around in Photoshop since I was nine years old. So I had a really firm grasp of design and layouts for magazines and doing all of our advertising and things like that. But when she built this showroom and I did all of that for a couple of years when we first started, I really wanted to get into the tactile beauty of fabric, actually touching and seeing and working with real textiles versus everything being conceptual on the computer all the time. So I really leaned back into interior design. but still work both side by side. So in 2006, we built this beautiful storefront. It is not a franchise. It is family owned still to this day, 20 years later. It’s still the two of us. And we have a great staff and installer on staff and everything to be able to help us make some of the most beautiful treatments you can possibly imagine. Yeah. William Hanke (03:37)I love that. That’s great. What’s it been like building something like this with your mom? Lexi Schultz (03:42)It’s been both fun and challenging. So I am an only child. So she is literally my best friend. She’s everything to me. And so when we built this storefront, was initially her vision of just having wall to wall custom draperies that were ready made. We had a concept in 2006 when we first started where it was dominantly just beautiful silk draperies, because silk was the thing in the early 2000s. a very Tuscan Italian Mediterranean style showroom for the central Texas region of that time. And her concept was just, want to have beautiful off the shelf, high quality, handmade in the US type drapery. And we did that for many years until we saw more architects building and developing bigger homes, bigger windows that required custom. So that’s where we just fully went into custom. But building a brand side by side with a family member. It’s been really rewarding, know, her having all of the experience to be able to produce a business model that allows me to kind of pick up the torch now and be a face person for our brand and still be very much in touch with today’s trends, having all of the knowledge, but also the current foresight of where, you know, our business model is going. It’s been fun working with her side by side for so long. Yeah. William Hanke (04:58)That’s great. So my daughter Amber works with me too. she so I understand I understand the dynamic ⁓ Lexi Schultz (05:01)⁓ yeah, for sure. We certainly have our moments. I’m not gonna lie and say we don’t have an all out, you know, fight over something or a concept both of us don’t agree on. We do a lot of designing for the showroom as far as having display pieces and like what brands to bring on. William Hanke (05:12)Right. Lexi Schultz (05:18)So we don’t always see eye to eye as like what drapery we want to make on the wall or what Roman shade we want to make for a display for this season. But beyond that, we’ve been working together so long that we really have a very know, tandem style of how we’re gonna do the future building of the store. William Hanke (05:34)Yeah, it’s fun. The dynamics great. And I’ve given Amber, my daughter permission to tell me no, because as a visionary, you’re like, we should do this, and we should do this, and we should do this, right? So I need somebody to kind of keep me focused. ⁓ Lexi Schultz (05:39)yeah, absolutely. Exactly, exactly. She’s a very, she’s a great idea person and I like to be more of an executor. So it’s a good combination, but sometimes where it’s like we have so many ideas, but we want to do them all at one time. And it’s not totally logistical to do that, but we can. William Hanke (06:02)Yeah, I know exactly what you’re talking about. I know you probably started out in the mail room or whatever and worked your way up. So how have you seen over the last 20 years the businesses evolved? Lexi Schultz (06:04)Yeah. Yes, exactly, yes! Yeah, so like I mentioned before, we started off, our concept was strictly just walk-in traffic. We did newspaper magazine ads in the day. We had magazine ads. There was no real internet advertising at this time. It hadn’t become quite a thing just yet. And so we really relied heavily on being open six days a week, you know, 10 to five, having clients come in and do, you know, design on the fly where they bring pillows or they bring sketches of their window configurations. And pictures on a camera phone or even print it out at that time. And so people would bring a lot of homework with them just without even making an appointment. It was full walk in and we could sit down and look at things on the wall and go, this is the one. But in the last decade, specifically from like 2013 to 2019, we saw a huge shift in not only not wanting to something off the shelf, really honing in on customization. So we brought on a lot of different suppliers and vendors when it came to hardware. when it came to fabric and then ultimately buying in and building our workrooms that can support a much larger scale than we had initially thought the showroom was ever going to be. So in the last 10 years or so, we’ve William Hanke (07:23)wow. Lexi Schultz (07:25)seen walk-in traffic kind of dip. I’m pretty sure anyone in this industry who’s got a storefront, a brick and mortar has seen the same thing since the pandemic. But we started to see just a bigger trend at that point of online people, different vendors from around the country providing things and being able to drop ship. So the world really changed probably after 2013 for window treatments specifically and having to really cater to more of a one-on-one experience, making an in-store appointment. Walk-in traffi
loading
Comments