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Marketing Upheaval

Marketing Upheaval

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Over the last few years, what’s changed in marketing? Everything. Marketing Upheaval is a weekly podcast where Creative Outhouse founder, Rudy Fernandez, talks to marketing leaders about what’s changing, what’s working and why we shouldn’t panic. Each episode is an enlightening 30-minute conversation with experts from different industries sharing their personal stories. Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast. If you're looking for creative marketing that leads to behavior change, we’re your people. www.creativeouthouse.com
19 Episodes
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How much do artists promote and get paid for their music? How does Elton John write a song? Matt talks about the music industry from a creative’s POV.Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast for complete shownotes and transcripts of every episode.Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. And this episode I spoke with Matt Still, a Grammy Award winning engineer and music producer. Matt has worked with people like Elton John, Stevie Wonder, Santana. He's worked with OutKast, Lady Gaga, and the list goes on and on - from legends to new artists. Matt and I have known each other for a long time, and I always enjoy talking with him. We talked about how he got started. We talked about the changes in music and the rights of artists, because Matt also advocates for the rights of performers and artists, which I admire. So I think people who make music have these magic powers that create this miraculous thing that profoundly affects us emotionally, makes us think and affects our lives. We talked about that too. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.TranscriptRudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Matt Still, Matt is a Grammy Award winning music producer and engineer. He's a national trustee for the Recording Academy and an artist in residence at Kennesaw State University. In his 25 plus years in the music industry, he's seen a lot of things change, and he's managed to change with them. So we're going to talk about that. Thanks for joining me, Matt.Matt: Thanks for having me.Rudy: So, I'm going to just for the listeners, start with shameless name dropping, if that's okay, because you're pretty modest guy, but I don't think you ought to be. You work with Elton John. Yes, you've worked with OutKast, Fallout Boy, Lady Gaga, Rod Stewart, Santana, Allison In Chains, BB King, Arrested Development, TLC. You've worked with Stevie Wonder and Patty LaBelle. Then it goes on and on and on. So how does a kid who grew up in Georgia and loved music grow up and become a guy who works with all these legends.Matt: Well, I've been in music my entire life. I started playing the piano and taking classical piano lessons at the age of four. So music was always a part of everything I did. And I never really thought about doing anything other than music. Yeah, you know, really, and I wanted to be I wanted to be the performer. I wanted to be the next Elton John. My mom bought me an Elton John songbook, but when I was a teenager. I think it's kind of ironic that I'm actually been working with him for over 26 years now. But I wanted to be the performer. And I remember when I was in bands in high school and in college, and we go into recording studios, and the recordings never came out sounding the way I wanted. Check out the complete transcript and shownotes at https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/11/06/matt-still-grammy-winning-audio-engineer-and-producer/Support the show
How does a 125-year-old brand stay cutting edge? Kathy talks about UL’s purpose and structure to keep up in dozens of vertical B2B markets.View complete shownotes and transcripts at: www.creativeouthouse.com/podcastHey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I had a great conversation with Kathy Seegebrecht, the Chief Marketing Officer of UL or what used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. It's the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. They test for safety, security and sustainability. And the thing that amazes me is that every day you, me, everyone, we all use products and services they test. Yet it's not as if they're top of mind. So I wanted to hear from Kathy about that. I also wanted to know how you market a 125 year old company in new areas without sounding outdated. What's the secret to staying on top for 125 years? Spoiler alert, it's all about living the company's purpose. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:56 Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Kathy Seegebrecht, Chief Marketing Officer of UL, which used to be known as Underwriters Laboratories. UL is the largest independent testing laboratory in the world. And chances are, you use products and services they test for safety, security and sustainability. In her four years at UL, Kathy has expanded and evolved the role of marketing there, and we're going to talk about that. So thank you for joining me, Kathy.Kathy Seegebrecht  1:21 Great. Thanks so much for having me. I appreciate it. I'm excited to talk about UL, one of my favorite topics.Rudy Fernandez  1:26 UL the certification approval - it's ubiquitous, and we all use products and services that you've touched somehow, just really top level: automotive, lighting, mobility, technology, building materials, healthcare, energy, utilities, financial transactions, it's everywhere, all sorts of consumer products. But here's my first question is: Given all that, as a CMO, who is your customer?Kathy Seegebrecht  1:51 We certainly have a very broad customer base. We service clients who buy products and wants to know if it's safe, secure or sustainably sourced. We have clients that sell products, who want to know if it meets regulations, where they want to sell it. And then we have clients who make products, who want to know all of those things. So our customers include brand owners, retailers, manufacturers and banking institutions. And that really just names some of the bigger client categories. We're firmly a B2B company. However, consumers are also really interested in what we do, and they benefit from our work, so thus you can see I've got the challenge as marketing all of those services, all of those various customer bases.Rudy Fernandez  2:26 That's really what I wanted to get into. That seems overwhelming. How do you reach your customers or engage with them?Kathy Seegebrecht  2:35 It's interesting because our customer base actually gets even more complex when you get down to the persona level. So we work with a variety, wide variety of customers whose titles range from quality assurance, regulatory compliance, workplace health and safety. The rest of the transcript is available at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/30/kathy-seegebrecht-cmo-of-ul-underwriters-laboratories-oSupport the show
Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast for complete show notes, transcripts and images from all of our episodes.Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In part two of my conversation with Brett Bruen, we talked about - what else -  politics and the upcoming 2020 elections. Brett worked for President Barack Obama as the head of Global Engagement and frequently speaks about politics and crises. Hearing his ideas and how candidates need to communicate was awesome. He gets into what President Trump does well, that has led to his success in politics. impeachment proceedings, notwithstanding that part for me coalesced so many different ideas about the president and his brand. Anyway, check this out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:47  Brett, I wanted to take advantage of having you on the podcast to ask you about the upcoming political contest. This is going to be an enormous campaign season. So what are some basics every candidate ought to know in regards to crisis because you know, they're going to be encountering something.Brett Bruen  1:05  Oh, absolutely, I think you should, first and foremost, have a pretty intrusive investigation into not only things that you may have said or did, but what could, as we've seen so many examples recently of videos or audio that has been sliced and diced to suggest that you said something or did something, even if in actual fact you didn't. Same goes for your cyber security. And we saw this play out in the French Presidential campaign where the Russians engaged in this kind of tactics. They hacked into the McCrone presidential campaign emails and you know, you will often see companies and we've got clients that have very high tech secure communication systems, but their employees are still sharing information on personal email and personal social media accounts on apps that is very insecure. And so understanding those vulnerabilities and not just building better security protocols and the like, but preparing for those eventualities where you might have to be in a situation where you're battling against truly fabricated information. And how you do that how you ensure that you're not on the defensive as I think the McCrone campaign was. It's a case study that U.S. candidates should really look closely at to glean some of the ways in which they anticipated and they prepared for that. I'd also say the challenge these days of the media environment being so intense and so occupied with whatever is the newest new news, and it's tough to get in there and it's tough to try a breakthrough. We've seen presidential candidates struggle with this. The old tactics, the old tradecraft of campaigning really does need to be rethought. And I think Elizabeth Warren is one example of, her sort of selfie political campaign strategy of, just getting as many selfies as you can. So you're spreading throughout this social network of all of the people who've attended your events. I think you got to get more creative.Read the full transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/23/brett-bruen-of-global-situation-room-on-crisis-management-in-politics-part-2/Support the show
Check out images, show notes and transcripts of all of our episodes at www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast.Hey everyone, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. Thanks for listening. I got a lot out of my conversation with Brett Bruen, President of the Global Situation Room. In fact, we had so much great stuff, we made this two episodes. Brett was the Director of Global Engagement under President Barack Obama. And he's worked as a diplomat in Africa, the Middle East. And he's advised on various topics, including national security. So he knows about crises and had some really brilliant ideas to share. In this first part, we talked about the ever changing world of crisis, or as Brett said, "risk has gone regular". His ideas about how companies can build up a "reservoir of goodwill" and forgiveability are for me, a whole new angle on crisis and risk management. And his idea that you can actually use a crisis as a chance to communicate or even strengthen your brand, man that's just great stuff. Anyway, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy: Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Brett Bruen, President of the Global Situation Room. An international consulting firm in Washington DC and Los Angeles. Brett served as the Director of Global Engagement under President Barack Obama, and also spent 12 years as an American diplomat in Africa, Latin America and the Middle East. He teaches at Georgetown and trains senior officials on crisis management. And that's what we're going to talk about today. Brad, I really appreciate your time. Thanks for joining me. So here's the first thing I want to get your thoughts on. As a society, we seem to be in constant state of crisis these days. Obviously, we have access to more information than ever before. But how do you think that affects people in their day to day?Brett: Well, I like to say risk has gone regular for private citizens, for organizations and for companies. I think we've seen numerous examples in the last few years of how brands have been challenged by upheaval and uncertainty, have been dragged into political, social, economic debates. And you know, my message to those who manage these brands is you know, the reactive days are over you have to prepare more proactively, you have to identify your vulnerabilities, track them, understand that when those indicators start to take up the appropriate responses not wait and see. Because wait and you will see. Instead it is about focusing on putting in place the kind of infrastructure that your company needs around those vulnerabilities. We call it "reservoirs of goodwill". What are those reservoirs you need to fill in order to have the right relationships, the right partnerships, the right tools, so that when that vulnerability is exploited...And let me just give you you know, an example, if I'm Chipotle it shouldn't be a surprise that this is an area that I have to be ready to respond to. And what was interesting I found was that it took Chipotle months to get to a point where as a consumer, I finally got in the mail certificate for a free burrito. Well, that's something we call a countermeasure. And you could have prepared that campaign ahead of time, you could have put in place all of the pieces, all of the research, the fact sheets, the elements that were required to roll something like that out, even if you don't know where, when or how that vulnerability would be exploited. Rudy: I love the term reservoirs of goodwill. I mean, that's fantastic. I think it lets leaders know that you have to constantly work to build your reputation. I love that term.View the complete transcript at www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast. Support the show
Visit www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast for show notes and images of every episode.Hey everyone. On this episode, I spoke with Jeff Perkins, the Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile. It's one of the fastest growing companies in the country. It's an app that if it hasn't already, it'll change the way you park your car. Just a really smart guy. And I learned a lot from our conversation, he introduced me to a concept called velocity marketing, which is already changing the way I approach a client in new business. He talked about how CMOs can gain more support in the C-suite. And of course, what it's like being the CMO, at a hugely successful startup, check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez  0:42  Welcome to Marketing Upheaval, my guest is Jeff Perkins, Chief Marketing Officer of ParkMobile, one of the fastest growing companies in the US. It's a revolutionary app that allows you to find a parking space and pay for it. They have more than 15 million users. Jeff has worked on the agency and client side. He's had tremendous success with growing startups and building a personal brand. And we're going to talk about all of that. Thanks for joining me, Jeff.Jeff Perkins  1:05  Happy to be here, Rudy. Thanks for having me on. Rudy Fernandez  1:07  So just for listeners, can you give us a quick overview of what Park and mobile the company does and what the app does? Jeff Perkins  1:13  Sure. So Park mobile is the leading mobile app for parking in the United States and North America, we help millions of people around the country find and pay for parking and do it right from their mobile apps. If you think about the old way you would pay for parking. Oftentimes, there was that one of these meters that required change and coins, and who carries around coins anymore, right. So we took that process of paying for parking, we brought your mobile device, making it easy reducing friction in the process, and also letting you pay for parking or extend your parking time when you're away from your car. So it makes it just a lot easier than the old process paying for parking. Now we also offer parking reservations. So for sporting events, major events, concerts, you're able to book parking ahead of time. So before you drive to the stadium for a game or a concert, you will know exactly where you're going to park. So that's a really nice feature. It helps people hopefully get to the events on time reducing some of that frustration in the process.Rudy Fernandez  2:16  So I know the company started in 2008. But that's something that wouldn't, couldn't possibly have existed not too long ago.Jeff Perkins  2:23  Yeah, not in 2008. The reservations part of our business is relatively new, it's been around for just a couple of years. And that's something that we're working towards expanding, not a lot of venues, not a lot of parking garages actually offer reservations today, so but in the coming years, if you live in the suburbs, and you're going to drive into a city for meetings or an event, you're probably going to be reserving parking, rather than just driving in and aimlessly circling the block looking for a place to park, we think it's going to be a great way to help people just get from point A to point B and reduce friction in that process.Rudy Fernandez  2:58  This is obviously brand new category, what kind of challenges and present being a brand new category.Visit https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/16/jeff-perkins-cmo-of-parkmobile-on-growing-a-company-and-category/ for complete transcripts, show notes and images from every episode.Support the show
Visit creativeouthouse.com/podcast for complete show notes, photos and transcripts for each episode. Transcript:Rudy Fernandez:           In this episode, I spoke with Loren O'Brien. She's a comedian and owns a video production company. So we talked about humor, what makes something funny and when does funny become offensive? How does humor help brands connect with an audience? What brands are doing funny well and who falls short? Spoiler alert. She liked our humor reel, or at least she said she did. Check it out.Rudy Fernandez:           Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:                         You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:           Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Loren O'Brien, CEO of MO Video Production. Loren has spent a large part of her career writing and performing comedy in London, and loves to talk about comedy and marketing, which are two of my favorite subjects. So I'm excited about this episode, and thanks for joining me, Loren.Loren:              No worries. Thanks for having me.Rudy:           I want to break down comedy, since you've done that for a long, long time, and there's a quote by E.B. White. He basically said that comedy, you can dissect it like you can dissect the frog, but in both cases the thing dies. So I want to start with the most basic topic. What makes something funny?Loren:              I think it's a feeling. It's like music. Something can be technically funny, but something that can also completely break the rules. Memes are a great example of how that's breaking all the rules at the moment because you'll read something and go, "This doesn't make any sense," but then it's just the way it makes you feel. I'm trying to break it down in my head every single day, what I find funny, and why I find it funny, and I think it just has to do with like a feeling. Whether it's in that moment, whether it's something relatable, or whether it's just plain old silly. I think it's just the way the music works.Rudy:           It's creating some kind of connection. However you do that, and you're not going to create a connection with everyone.Loren:              No.Rudy:           But speaking of memes, a lot of times when I see memes, often it's things you wish you could say.Loren:              Yes. Something about online comedy is the voice in your head that you wish you could say to everybody else. I'm trying to do a lot more with my standup as well, and it doesn't work out very well in real life. People don't like that as much. You're supposed to keep quiet when you're talking to people.Rudy:           It is a strange time because our societal norms have changed.Complete show notes at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/09/loren-obrien-comedian-and-ceo-of-m-o-makes-on-humor-in-marketing/Support the show
The founder of Dialogue Marketing talks about the explosive developments in AI in marketing—what it will mean for customer service, client relationships and marketing agencies. Rudy Fernandez:           Hey everyone. This is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. I had a great time speaking with Nora DePalma from Dialogue Marketing. She and I connect on several levels. We both own businesses, we're both very curious at a sort of nerd like level. So our talk about artificial intelligence and marketing was fun. We talked about how AI is changing the way we do our jobs and which of us will still have jobs in the future. AI is here, and it's being used more and more in marketing. So I think you're going to get a lot out of this episode. My guest is Nora DePalma, president and CEO of Dialogue Marketing. Dialogue helps clients create two way communications with their audience, whether it's a small audience or a big audience. One tool that's becoming fundamental to engaging with customers is artificial intelligence, so we're going to talk about that and her company. Thank you for joining me Nora.Nora DePalma:              Thank you.Rudy Fernandez:           One of the biggest changes overall in marketing has to be this idea that brands can no longer be pushed out to audiences. And I love that whole aspect of your company. It's a dialogue.Nora DePalma:              It's a dialogue. Yes.Rudy Fernandez:           Yeah. And there has to be a back and forth for customers because now customers have allowed a republic voice. So how have you seen your clients adjust to this?Nora DePalma:              The clients we see that are really doing it well think about branding throughout their organization. So the branding is not just the purview of the advertising team, it's your customer service, it's how you answer the phone, it's every experience and touch point that your customers have with you. And thinking through what that experience is. Companies that have that mindset and communicate that mindset to employees are the ones that are doing really well.Rudy Fernandez:           So how do you create that? And it's funny because I agree with you, I've always felt like the most important audience is your internal audience, because it doesn't matter what you tell the outside world if your people aren't supporting it. How do you create that sort of brand that's internal, external, everybody is on board?Nora DePalma:              First of all, you have to be true to it. I think all of us have probably had an experience if we've been in the industry or been in our careers more than 20, 25 years, we've probably come across a situation where a company didn't walk the walk that they were talking. And everyone knows that. And that just starts to develop distrust between leadership and employees. And that is a very outdated and going away kind of top down view of leadership. The first job of any leader is to build trust in their organization, to be able to get their attention and their interest. View images, show notes and complete transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/10/02/nora-depalma-of-dialogue-marketing-on-ai-in-marketing/Support the show
The COO of Media Frenzy Global offers some frank observations on the real and superficial changes in the marketing world’s push for more diverse and inclusive workplaces.  Complete show notes and transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/09/25/katie-kern-of-media-frenzy-global-on-diversity-and-inclusion/TranscriptRudy:               Hey everyone. I really enjoyed this conversation with Katie Kern who's a partner and COO of Media Frenzy Global. We talked about entrepreneurship and creating a personal brand, but it was the diversity and inclusion conversation that really resonated with me. Now, frankly, whenever I've discussed it with people in marketing, I usually get a vanilla sort of kumbaya response. Katie's narrative was very different and felt a lot more real and powerful. I'm really excited to share this episode with you. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Announcer:       You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:               Welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Katie Kern, partner and COO of Media Frenzy Global, a PR and content marketing firm that's strong in the technology space. Before joining Media Frenzy, Katie owned her own lifestyle PR agency. She was selected to be part of the Goldman Sachs 10,000 Small Businesses program to help train and support entrepreneurs. And she writes and speaks about diversity and inclusion, has won many awards. So really excited to talk to her today. Katie, thanks for joining us.Katie Kern:        Thanks for having me.Rudy:               The fact that you switched from fashion to technology, I thought, "Wow, those are real different." So do you see any overlaps, anything in fashion that helped you with technology?Katie Kern:        You know what's interesting? I think technology companies want to be in the fashion industry because we're the cool kids to a certain extent, from a creativity standpoint, everyone who wants ... Everyone loves the glitz and the glamor of fashion, and they see how fashion brands actually kind of go to market once a season. It's not once a year. Most technology companies, if you think about how companies market themselves, they put together a big marketing campaign for the entire year and then go from there and kind of deploy it. Fashion, we have to be a lot more kind of on the ball thinking.Complete show notes and transcript at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/09/25/katie-kern-of-media-frenzy-global-on-diversity-and-inclusion/Support the show
Tim Smith of Chemistry on AOR vs project work, the Atlanta United campaign launchThe President of Chemistry, Atlanta talks about being named Ad Age’s small agency of the year -  twice, the challenges with client agreements and the most successful campaign launch in professional sports history. Full shownotes and transcripts at www.creativeouthouse.com/podcastTranscript:Rudy Fernandez:           Hey, this is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse. In this episode of Marketing Upheaval, I spoke with Tim Smith, President of Chemistry in Atlanta. Chemistry was named Ad Age's best small agency two out of the last four years, and we talked about that.Rudy:               We also talked about what's not working with a lot of client agency relationships and new business, and we talked about the most successful launch in professional sports history and what we all can learn from that.Rudy:               Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.Earcon:             You're listening to Marketing Upheaval from Creative Outhouse.Rudy:               Hey, thanks for listening to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Tim Smith, President of Chemistry in Atlanta. Chemistry won Ad Age's Small Agency of the Year in 2016 and 2018. They do great work and have some powerful case studies, including the most successful sports franchise launch in history, according to ESPN and Sports Illustrated. We're going to talk about that. Thanks for joining me, Tim.Tim Smith:        Thanks for having me.Rudy:               So I know you worked at a lot of big shops and big brands and stuff, and then you worked on Super Bowl spots and everything, and now small shops.Rudy:               Well, first of all, why did you do that? Why did you go from the big agency, big budget to small shops?Tim:                 Yeah. So I started really right out of school, jumped right into the deep end and went to BBDO New York. Now, that was all big stuff, big budgets. I thought, "Wow, this advertising gig's amazing. We have huge budgets, and flying around, fancy hotels." It was fantastic.Rudy:               I only get to hear about that kind of stuff.Tim:                 Right. Sadly, I got to experience it just long enough to miss it. So it was great. Well, I always wanted to live in the South, so I kind of would go to a big ad market, come back South. Got to a big ad market, come back South.Tim:                 Then an opportunity came up to be a creative director in a small shop, so I had the ego to believe that, wow, this small shop, they've got a few clients and I've done all this big stuff, I can certainly make them big, that's not going to be a problem. Found how difficult the struggle was. So we did some good stuff. We won a lot of business and stuff, but it was on a totally different level from all the ones I was used to. But I really liked it.More at: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/09/18/tim-smith-of-chemistry-on-aor-vs-project-work-the-atlanta-united-campaign-launch/Support the show
Full transcript and show notes are available at www.creativeouthouse.com/podcast.Transcript:Rudy Fernandez:           Hey everyone. This is Rudy Fernandez from Creative Outhouse, and this is a really neat episode with Warren Kurtzman, the president of Coleman insights. And we first learned about Coleman when we were doing some research on media trends. They have lots of terrific research on radio, podcasting, and music on their website. So I wanted to learn more about that. Now, even though Warren and I just met on this call, I can tell you he is a super nice man and a patient one because we had some online technical problems and it took three attempts at this conversation before we ever got one that worked. So he's a prince. Now, the first two minutes of our conversation, the audio isn't great, but after that it's fine. So stick with it because Warren shared a lot of fantastic knowledge about the audio space. Check it out. Welcome to Marketing Upheaval.<Earcon>Rudy:                           Well, welcome to Marketing Upheaval. My guest is Warren Kurtzman, the president of Coleman insights. Coleman does extensive media research and they are experts particularly in the audio space. So today we're going to talk about radio, which is one of my favorite subjects and podcasting and music testing. Warren, thanks for joining me today.Warren Kurtzman:        Thanks for having me. It's great to be here.Rudy:                           So I know Coleman helps radio stations build their brands and, and develop content. How do you help radio stations, especially as rapidly as things are changing? How do you help them develop content and develop their brands?Warren:                        Well, we do that primarily through market research and I've experience working with audio brands. So we do a lot of consumer research where we find out what consumers like, what they don't like and what they perceive radio stations and other forms of media, including other forms of audio media providing them.Rudy:                           So radio has been around for a long time, but what are some of the changes you see in this space in the last, let's say five years or so?Warren:                        Well, that might take up the rest of your podcast. Quite a few changes in the audio landscape. The radio industry has changed dramatically. It used to be a highly fragmented industry and nowadays consolidated with, in most markets, three, four, maybe five operators running most of the radio stations. And the landscape in which a radio stations compete is completely different. Used to be that they had almost a near monopoly on the way people could consume audio, particularly as they were consuming it on the go. And of course today with the rise of streaming, with the rise of podcasting and other ways that people can access audio based entertainment digitally on the environment in which radio competing, nothing like it was just a couple of years ago.Visit us for more: https://creativeouthouse.com/2019/09/12/warren-kurtzman-of-coleman-insights-on-radio-podcasting-and-their-audiences/<Support the show
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