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Welcome to the Messy Social Work podcast. The hosts are Richard Devine and Tim Fisher.
Check out our website here: https://www.relationalactivism.com/
81 Episodes
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This week on Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim take a deep dive into Darren McGarvey’s The Trauma Industrial Complex — a book that pulls no punches about how society packages, sells, and performs trauma. We explore McGarvey’s core argument that trauma has become a kind of cultural currency, often stripped of nuance and turned into content. We talk about the emotional labour placed on lived-experience workers, the myths of the “hero’s journey,” and the three layers of victimhood: victimhoo...
In this Connecting Research episode, we speak to a lecturer and researcher at University College London, Dr Patrizia Pezzoli, about an article she co-authored, titled: Lived-experience perspectives on the psychological factors linking childhood maltreatment to later intimate partner violence victimization. See paper here Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-p...
In this episode, we have a returning guest: social worker and team manager Toni Mayo. Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
In this episode, we explore the tension between the fast-paced, task-driven nature of social work and the deeper need for presence, reflection, and meaning. Rhian Taylor shares insights from her recent blog on why it’s so hard for practitioners to stop—and how doing so can radically improve our wellbeing and the quality of our practice. We talk about: The systemic pressures that reward constant “doing”The emotional and professional cost of never stoppingHow rest, reflection, and inner a...
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Context Counts: Improving the analysis of socio-economic context and intersectionality in Local Child Safeguarding Practice Reviews: https://www.techne.ac.uk/research-and-education/departments-and-schools/law-and-criminology/research/our-projects-and-research-impact/context-counts-improving-the-analysis-of-socio-economic-context-and-intersectionality-in-local-child-safeguarding-practice-reviews/ Rich's BASW Child Protect...
Josh MacAlister has said he’d like children to have a choice of where and with whom they live: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/02/children-in-care-should-have-choice-of-where-and-with-whom-they-live-says-macalister/ Applications to register children’s homes are rocketing, such that Ofsted is having to prioritise applications, leaving others having to wait up to 18 months. https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/10/13/some-childrens-homes-face-waits-of-up-to-18-months-to-register-un...
In this episode of the Messy Social Work Podcast, Rich and Tim speak with Dr Paul Shuttleworth about his new book Listening to Children about Kinship Care: Child Welfare and Permanence. Drawing on powerful research and direct testimony from children and young people, Paul shares what they say really matters when professionals make decisions about kinship care, permanence, and support. We explore: Why listening to children is essential in kinship care planningThe emotional and relational compl...
In this episode, we explore why lived experience has become such a dominant force in social work, and ask: what are we missing when we treat it as unquestionable truth? Dr Stabler helps us think critically about how stories are used, who gets to tell them, and what happens when experience becomes currency. This is a conversation about ethics, representation, and the uncomfortable edges of practice. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Prote...
In this episode, Rich and Tim: How to Succeed at Failing, we reflect on the times we’ve got it wrong — professionally and personally — and explore why failure isn’t just inevitable, but essential. From missteps to lessons learned, we talk about how embracing failure can lead to growth, insight, and even unexpected success. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-p...
In this thoughtful and research-informed conversation, Rich and Tim speak with Professor Rick Barth about his influential article, “Ten Common Child Welfare Misconceptions.” The episode explores how widely held beliefs about child protection and foster care often diverge from evidence and practice realities. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich De...
In this episode, Rich and Tim sit down with Professor Harry Ferguson—one of the most influential thinkers in contemporary social work. Together, they explore the evolution of the profession, the emotional and embodied nature of frontline practice, and what we’ve learned from decades of child death enquiries. Harry reflects on the importance of relationships, the complexity of risk, and why social work must be both intellectually rigorous and deeply human. A must-listen for anyone interested i...
Rich and Tim speak to Lee Crouch, a parent activist, about losing his children, the long road to recovery, and eventual reunification. Together, they explore how parents, social workers, and foster carers can collaborate more compassionately. Rich and Tim also reflect on their own experiences of shame — how it’s shaped their work and personal lives — and what it means for practice and healing. Connect with Lee on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lee-crouch-257ab2248/ Check out the hope...
Social Work England fee rise and increase in fitness to practise case numbers https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/24/social-work-england-presses-ahead-with-33-fee-rise-despite-huge-practitioner-opposition/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/25/social-work-england-fee-hike-unjustifiable-and-based-on-tokenistic-consultation-warn-unison-and-basw/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/29/psw-networks-sound-alarm-over-social-work-england-fee-rise/ https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/08...
In this conversation, Rich and Tim explore how writing isn’t just for blogs or books—it’s a powerful tool for social workers to think more clearly, practice more effectively, and create new opportunities. Drawing on their own experiences, they discuss how the simple act of putting words on a page sharpens reflection, deepens analysis, and helps communicate ideas with confidence. Whether you’re looking to improve your day-to-day practice, strengthen your professional voice, o...
In this episode of Messy Social Work, Rich and Tim debate (and disagree about): are social workers failing families by ignoring the system? It’s just the two of us this time, diving into one of the biggest tensions in the profession. Should we focus our energy on helping individual families build safety and stability? Or is that just papering over the cracks of a system that keeps producing harm? We’ve got strong opinions — and we don’t always agree Relational Activism: https://www.relational...
Dr Lorna Stabler's research can be found here. Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
Connect with Cordie here: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cordie-gwilym/ Mithran's CC articles: A guide to the reforms: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/10/the-dfes-child-protection-and-family-support-reforms-explained/An interview with Eileen Munro, in which she voiced significant criticisms of the changes: https://www.communitycare.co.uk/2025/07/03/munro-childrens-social-care-reforms-very-likely-to-fail-due-to-scale-of-change-and-lack-of-testing/A response to the Munro piece from a...
In this conversation, Rasheed Nicholas John Pendry shares his journey into social work, highlighting the transformative impact of systemic ideas and personal experiences on his professional practice. He discusses the importance of relationships in social work, the need for cultural change within organisations, and innovative practices in family therapy. Rashid also reflects on the complexities of adoption and the significance of kinship care, emphasising the role of curiosity and emotio...
Relational Activism: https://www.relationalactivism.com/ Rich's BASW Child Protection sessions: https://basw.co.uk/social-work-child-protection-professional-practice-programme Rich Devine's blog: https://richarddevinesocialwork.com/about/ Tim Fisher LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/timfisher101/ Rich Devine LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/richard-devine-181763177/
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