Misguided: The Podcast

Today’s guest is Dr. Claire Wardle, a professor in the Department of Communication at Cornell University and one of the world’s leading experts on misinformation, media literacy, and public trust in science. Over the past two decades, she’s trained journalists around the globe, worked with organizations like the UN and the BBC, and co-founded both the nonprofit First Draft and the Information Futures Lab at Brown University.In this conversation, we dive into the challenges of defining and labeling misinformation, the importance of clear communication during times of uncertainty, and the emotional and social reasons people share content online. We also explore what it would look like if institutions—and academics—communicated in more human, engaging ways.I’ve cited Dr. Wardle’s work many times, so it was great to speak with her directly. I hope you enjoy the conversation as much as I did!Keywordsmedia literacy, misinformation, public trust, communication, social media, information sharing, community engagement, science communication, AIClaire Wardle’s Cornell WebsiteClaire Wardle on BlueskyFirst Draft Information Futures Lab at Brown University This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit matthewfacciani.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Misguided, Matthew Facciani speaks with historian and Analog Social founder Shae Omonijo about making history accessible, the importance of community, and how digital culture is reshaping human connection. Shae shares what inspired her to pursue a PhD in history, her efforts to bring historical knowledge to the public, and the origins of Analog Social, a project focused on reclaiming real-world interactions in a digital age. They also discuss how history is shaped, erased, and distorted—and how those lessons can help us combat misinformation today.Shae’s Harvard WebsiteShae’s Personal WebsiteShae the Historian SubstackAnalog Socialkeywordshistory, public history, misinformation, community, social connection, digital life, humanities, Analog Social, critical thinking, historical narratives00:13 – Introduction01:13 – What Inspired Shae to Study History?03:26 – Making History Public & The Power of Representation06:20 – Shae’s “100 Historic Black Women” Series09:22 – How History Gets Distorted & Misinformation in Historical Narratives13:16 – The Rise of Analog Social & Reclaiming Human Connection18:30 – The Future of Analog Social20:18 – Social Isolation & Misinformation: Are They Connected?23:37 – Why We Hold on to False Beliefs25:19 – Final Thoughts: The Future of History & Social Connection This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit matthewfacciani.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Misguided, Dr. Joel Breakstone, Co-Founder and Executive Director of the Digital Inquiry Group, joins me to discuss how we can better equip students to evaluate online information in an era of misinformation and AI-driven content. We explore the challenges of digital literacy, why some traditional fact-checking methods fall short, and evidence-based strategies—such as lateral reading—that actually help students distinguish credible sources from misinformation. Dr. Breakstone also shares insights from his research on how fact-checkers, students, and academics approach online sources differently, and what educators can do to integrate digital literacy into existing curricula. If you're interested in how we can teach people to think critically—rather than just telling them what to think—this episode is for you.Digital Inquiry GroupDr. Breakstone’s Google ScholarKeywords:digital literacy, media literacy, misinformation, fact-checking, lateral reading, critical thinking, online information, disinformation, civic online reasoning, education, Joel Breakstone, Stanford History Education Group, Digital Inquiry Group This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit matthewfacciani.substack.com/subscribe

In this episode of Misguided: The Podcast, I sit down with Dr. Kate Biberdorf—also known as Kate the Chemist—to discuss her journey from chemistry professor to science communicator and her new role as The University of Notre Dame’s Professor for the Public Understanding of Science. We explore the importance of making science engaging, the challenges of combating misinformation, and how social media can be both a powerful tool and a challenge for scientists. Dr. Biberdorf also shares insights into her approach to breaking down complex topics, her experiences blowing things up on TV, and her plans for a cutting-edge STEM studio. Whether you're a science enthusiast, educator, or just curious about the role of communication in today's information landscape, this episode is packed with insight and inspiration.Kate the Chemist’s website and books Kate the Chemist’s InstagramKate the Chemist’s TikTokSeeking a Scientist podcastKeywordsscience communication, public understanding of science, misinformation, AI in science, engaging audiences, science outreach, academic roles, social media, chemistry education, building bridgesChapters01:15 Journey into Science and Communication03:04 The Role of Science Communication in Academia08:18 Social Media's Impact on Science Communication13:07 Combating Misinformation in Science16:16 Navigating Science Communication Challenges22:21 The Role of AI in Science Communication28:37 Promoting Scientific Literacy and Engagement This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit matthewfacciani.substack.com/subscribe

Summary In this episode of Misguided the Podcast, host Matthew Facciani interviews Kavin Senapathy, a science writer and author of The Progressive Parent. We discuss various types of misinformation in parenting, the complexities of trust in scientific organizations, and the need for a nuanced understanding of health and medicine. Kavin also addresses the societal pressures surrounding breastfeeding and advocates for a broader perspective on child well-being.Kavin Senapathy’s new book: The Progressive ParentFollow Kavin on Instagram and FacebookKavin’s websiteKeywordsscience communication, parenting, misinformation, vaccines, trust, health, social justice, progressive values, child well-being, breastfeedingChapters00:00 The Journey into Science Communication05:11 The Progressive Parent: Themes and Insights09:28 Misinformation in Parenting13:48 Navigating Trust in Science and Vaccines17:47 The Complexity of Health and Medicine22:05 Final Thoughts on Parenting and Science This is a public episode. If you'd like to discuss this with other subscribers or get access to bonus episodes, visit matthewfacciani.substack.com/subscribe

SummaryIn the first episode of Misguided: The Podcast, host Matthew Facciani speaks with legal analyst and professor Barbara McQuade about the rise of misinformation and disinformation in the modern media landscape. They examine how technology accelerates the spread of false information, the erosion of public trust in institutions, and the role of transparency and community engagement in rebuilding that trust. McQuade highlights the need for both systemic reforms and individual action, emphasizing education and digital literacy as key tools for combating misinformation. The conversation ends on a hopeful note, recognizing the potential of younger generations to reshape the digital information space.Barbara McQuade’s new book: Attack from Within: How Disinformation Is Sabotaging America.Sisters In Law PodcastThe ContrarianBarbara McQuade on Threads and BlueskyKeywordsmisinformation, disinformation, media evolution, public trust, social media, community engagement, digital literacy, government transparency, combating misinformation, critical thinking, Barbara McQuadeChapters00:00 The Evolution of Media and Information03:46 Misinformation in the Digital Age05:57 Trust in Institutions and Public Confidence10:01 Restoring Trust: Transparency and Local Engagement12:39 The Role of Community and Local Media16:22 Systemic Solutions to Combat Misinformation19:22 Individual Actions Against Misinformation24:22 Hope for the Future: The Next GenerationTranscriptMatthew Facciani (00:19)Welcome everyone to Misguided the Podcast. I'm your host, Matthew Facciani.I'm a social scientist studying how social and psychological forces shape our understanding of the world. On this show, we explore the latest insights from social science to uncover why we believe what we do, how misinformation spreads, and how we can think more critically. I'll share my own research and engage in thought-provoking conversations with experts from diverse fields, scholars, journalists, technologists, and more to examine the ever-evolving information landscape.This podcast was inspired by my book, Misguided, where misinformation starts, how it spreads, and what to do about it, but it goes beyond those pages. Here, we dive deeper into the complex forces shaping our beliefs and decision making, exploring new ideas and perspectives in every episode.Matthew Facciani (01:10)If you're curious about the psychology of misinformation, the influence of social media,or how to navigate today's complex media environment, in the right place. Before we dive into today's conversation, let me introduce you to my guest, Barbara McQuade. She's a professor at the University of Michigan Law School, legal analyst, and former US attorney for the Eastern District of Michigan. You may also recognize her as a legal analyst for NBC News and MSNBC, co-host of Sisters in Law podcast, and a contributor to the Contrarian Newsletter.She's the author of Attack From Within, How Disinformation is Sabotaging America, a book that examines how the evolving media landscape and the rapid spread of misinformation are eroding public trust and institutions and what we can do about it. In today's episode, we'll discuss how misinformation and disinformation thrive in the modern media environment, the legal and societal consequences, and practical steps we could take to build a more informed society. I'm thrilled to have Barbara on the show, let's get into it.Matthew Facciani (02:14)before diving into the topic of misinformation and disinformation, I'd love to hear about your journey through the evolution of the information environment. So in your book, you mentioned interning with one of the very first online news companies back in the late 80s, which I found really fascinating. And then over the 90s and 2000s, you've done a lot of interviews on television and various media platforms. And now most recently, I know youhost your own podcast, Sisters in Law, and you've even joined this new subsack newsletter, The Contrarian. So I'd like to ask you from a big picture, how have you seen this media landscape evolve and what insights can you share about navigating these changes?Barb (02:58)Yeah, I think for me the evolution has been from maybe more care for accuracy and thoughtfulness into prioritizing urgency and speed. And that's something I first saw when I worked for this company. It was called Dow Jones News Retrieval. In the mid-80s, it was a summer internship. And at the time, you the idea that people would use their computers to receive news seemed kind of far-fetched. The goal was to...provide news, world news, political news, US news, all kinds of news, that people who were investors would find valuable. And so they would pay for that resource to get up to the minute most accurate, timely, urgent information that they could use to inform their investment decisions. it comes at the expense of taking the time to think through things, of writing a longer piece that could provide morecontent and nuance to things. And so, you know, that and then, you know, today's world of news received via the internet, I saw that evolution even as I worked in the U.S. Attorney's Office where we would get requests for comment on a story. And we might say, you know, when's your deadline? And they'd say, you know, 10 p.m. or something like that. And you'd have all day to kind of think through what are the stakes here? Who are the stakeholders? We have victims.Will a comment in any way harm them? Are there other ongoing aspects of this investigation that could be harmed if we speak? Are there fair trial rights of a defendant that could be affected if we were to comment on this thing? We need to talk to other stakeholders, other investigative agencies. And so, by the end of the day, we were either able to say, I'm sorry, we can't comment, or to provide something valuable to provide context and information for readers. Now...by the end of the time I served as U.S. attorney, you would get a message saying, would you like to comment our stories going live in 10 minutes? And you'd can't get you a comment that quickly. They say, all well, we'll get it in the next round. And so there's this urgency to get an answer. And then the first version of the story did not contain your response. And so that might fly around the internet without any response from you. So I saw this evolution. And I think my move to podcasting,and to the contrarian is an effort to get away from that fast and short is better model. I understand it has a place in society. People need to know breaking news when it happens, but just because something is new does not mean it is important. And so I hope that my work in my podcast, Sisters in Law and with the contrarian gives me space to spend a little more time on substance so that people can think aboutnews and not just react to it.Matthew Facciani (05:46)Yeah, yeah, that's a great point. that connects to my next question. So connecting this to misinformation. So how have those experiences in this evolving media landscape affected your thoughts on misinformation and then how misinformation can spread through these newer forms of media? And what can we do to kind of counteract that?Barb (06:04)So I think that speed and that expectation of instantaneous news fosters a home for disinformation and misinformation. And just to clarify how I use those two terms, I use disinformation to mean the deliberate use of lies to advance some sort of agenda and misinformation, sort of its unwitting cousin, know, somebody who reads something they believe to be false and then shares it online, further advancing that false claim, but they do so innocently without realizing.that the claim is false. But technology now allows people to send any content, unedited, unreviewed by any sort of gatekeeper, across the world to reach millions of people in an instant, and we can do so anonymously. And so that really opens the floodgates for disinformation. And as we've seen, there are people out there who will exploit that. The Russian Internet Research Agency in 2016, by creating false personas online ofpurportedly American users saying all kinds of things to sow discord and undermine public confidence in the elections and disparage candidates to just this election cycle when we saw a Russian group using artificial intelligence to create fake web pages that look like the Washington Post or Fox News and then fill those pages with false content that advanced Russian interests, know, undermining Ukraine in the war and sharing its views in the presidential race.So the technology, I think, is really facilitating and driving that urgency. But I think one of the collateral consequences is that it really is sort of a petri dish where disinformation can really grow and thrive.Matthew Facciani (07:47)Yeah, yeah, absolutely. The speed and the scale that miss and disinformation can be achieved today is really staggering.It can be really overwhelming when you look at the Internet and you see so much stuff, this information overload, and a lot of that connects to erosion and trust in what we see online and just erosion and trust in general. that connects to the next thing I wanted to ask you about, because in your book you highlight this connection between misinformation and the decline of public trust in various institutions. And I want to ask you first,what key factors or benchmarks should we consider when assessing the trustworthiness of legal and other institutions? What can the average person look for to see if these institutions are doing what they should be doing?Barb (08:31)Yeah, well, there are indices. Joyce Vance at the contrarian is putting together a democracy index to help measure in a quantifiable way some of the erosion of our democratic institutions. But there are survey groups that survey public trust in courts and in the executive branch, in the president and other things. And we have seen all of those measures dip to an all time low.