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Author: Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
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© Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin
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Dave Morin, Jessica Lessin, Brit Morin, and Sam Lessin have debated the future of Silicon Valley and tech as the closest of friends for the last 15 years. Now six companies, two venture funds and more than a decade at Google, Apple and Facebook later, they are opening up the debate. From The Information, Offline Ventures, and Slow Ventures.
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79 Episodes
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In this episode, the Morins & Lessins dive into the highs and lows of 2024 to uncover who came out on top.
Google made a strong showing, but are they well-positioned for the long haul? Waymo keeps moving the needle with self-driving cars and big moves in AI, making it a strong contender for years to come.
Apple? They’ve been a bit slow to innovate this year, but don’t count them out just yet. Meta really hit their stride in 2024, proving the naysayers wrong. AI? Check. Hardware? Check. Will they keep the momentum going?
Let’s get into it.
In this episode, the Morins & Lessins dive into the highs and lows of 2024 to uncover who came out on top.
Google made a strong showing, but are they well-positioned for the long haul? Waymo keeps moving the needle with self-driving cars and big moves in AI, making it a strong contender for years to come.
Apple? They’ve been a bit slow to innovate this year, but don’t count them out just yet. Meta really hit their stride in 2024, proving the naysayers wrong. AI? Check. Hardware? Check. Will they keep the momentum going?
Let’s get into it.
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
(00:00:00) Trailer + Introduction
(00:01:46) God bless capitalism
(00:04:08) A+ love story, 3-hour marathon
(00:07:32) 2024 Tech Outlook
(00:09:50) Why AI was transformative
(00:13:21) A major year for tech?
(00:17:55) A remarkable year for VC
(00:31:51) Waymo
(00:35:35) The company of the year
(00:53:29) 2025 Predictions
(01:03:20) Food, health, pop culture, sports
(01:08:15) Outro
How will OpenAI's latest video technology affect the creator ecosystem? Could this new tech pave the way for a new type of entertainment?
Also in this episode ↓
- Does Google have a lead in the AI race?
- Should digital trade play a larger role in policy discussions?
- The End of the Eras Tour and Sam's Pink Pilates Princess Strut Pop Season
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
00:00 Trailer
01:24 Introduction
02:04 The Eras Tour
06:56 AI, TikTok, and Arrests
07:31 AI Video Debate
10:28 Creator Economy and AI Tools
16:10 Trust and Attention in Creator Businesses
19:24 Digital Drugs and AI Content
22:13 Spotify Wrapped and Music Trends
27:54 AI Agents
35:04 The Death of the Open Web?
39:42 Policy, Big Tech, and Digital Trade
48:29 Reflecting on Leadership in Media and Policy
52:18 Amazon Autos and Miata Chronicles
55:01 Outro
What’s it like being the CEO of Box and a full-time internet meme lord? Well… ask Aaron Levie.
In this episode, he joins Jess, Dave, and Sam to answer:
• what it’s like being a “toxic Bitcoin maxi” as the price soars past $100k
• more or less M&A for MAANG
• how far we are from AGI
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
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Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
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1) Aaron Levie: https://x.com/levie
2) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
3) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
4) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
5) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
00:00 Trailer
01:27 Introduction
05:26 Web3, Crypto Enthusiasm
13:44 Political Dynamics in Tech
22:27 Antitrust and Regulatory Challenges
34:59 The Future of AI in Enterprise Software
40:36 The Personal App Revolution
43:47 AI Accuracy
51:38 Killer Use Cases and Business Models
1:01:59 Future Predictions
1:05:02 Pop Culture Corner
1:07:10 Outro
The artist vs. tech bros—classic tension or chaos ahead?
In EP 75, Brit, Dave, and Jess are joined by Matt Vascellaro as they dive into:
• Sora's leak and the fiery backlash from Hollywood
• The uneasy marriage of AI and art, and why the "right" UI still feels like chasing rainbows
• And, of course, the rise (and roast) of the Bay Area tech bro
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Matt Vascellaro: https://x.com/wizardgenius
2) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
3) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
4) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
Meet Adrian Aoun—an OG listener and one of Alphabet’s best-kept secrets. He recently wound down Forward, his company that set out to reinvent the doctor’s office with AI.
He joins Brit, Dave, and Jess in this episode to explore the exit, Adrian’s hardware + software play with CarePods, and what it means to create a generational company for healthcare.
Also on the agenda:
• is primary care venture-scalable?
• are Elon & Trump BFFs??
• Optimus for the military???
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Adrian Aoun: https://x.com/adrianaoun
2) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
3) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
4) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
00:00:00 Trailer
00:01:17 Introduction
00:02:22 Navigating New York City
00:07:13 Some Silicon Valley history
00:11:05 More Or Less: Trump and Musk
00:15:36 Forward's Journey and Challenges
00:24:00 Healthcare Innovations and Market Shifts
00:30:07 Future of Healthcare and Business Models
00:43:39 Unwinding a company
00:47:31 Healthcare Technology Adoption
00:59:15 The Emotional and Logistical Aspects
01:01:55 Outro
With Musk’s bio now updated to read, “The people voted for major government reform,” it’s clear he’s not just dabbling in policy.
In this episode, the Morins and Lessins break down what it means for democracy when a “super VC” like Musk mingles tech interests with government influence.
Also on the docket:
- will Bitcoin surge to $100K?
- monetization for LLMs, and
- the new wave of Silicon Valley internships in government
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
Mark Zuckerberg & T-Pain's New Song 'Get Low':
https://open.spotify.com/track/3Wn1ZONJX2yfbzWo2aPuQN?si=5368065e3e994f54
00:00:00 Trailer
00:01:10 Introduction and Brit’s New Look
00:03:17 IV Drip, Lingo, suPAR
00:08:49 PSA: Cookies and Feedbacks
00:10:09 Another big week in AI
00:12:30 Department of Government Efficiency
00:21:53 The cryptos and the VCs
00:29:39 AI in B2B2C and Verticalized Markets
00:37:50 AI Investment Strategies and Market Trends
00:52:32 Pop Culture Corner: Zuck and T-Pain
01:00:15 Outro
Are incumbent media networks losing ground?
Kamala stuck to broadcast media, while Trump bypassed traditional filters and reached audiences as an influencer, taking his message to Rogan and Fridman.
Among concerns over echo chambers and AI-controlled narratives, there’s a flip side—more people now have a platform, giving everyone a voice.
Guillermo Rauch of Vercel says “everyone needs to be empowered to create.” The more people who can build their own platforms and apps, the more we decentralize the conversation.
Tune in as we break down the election aftermath and the future of content in a post-AI world.
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
In this episode, the crew dives into why no self-respecting Silicon Valley developer is ditching AI tools anytime soon.
Sam and Jess go back and forth on Snap’s subscription model and whether it can stand up to Meta’s dominance.
Plus, Bezos seems wary of a potential Trump comeback.
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
00:00:00 Trailer
00:01:02 Introduction
00:01:22 Phone problems as features
00:07:00 Tech earnings season overview
00:09:45 Meta's quarterly performance and VR discussion
00:15:30 Google and Microsoft's AI-driven growth
00:19:55 User growth for tech companies
00:23:56 How users are using Snapchat
00:30:46 Get laid, get paid, get entertained
00:36:40 Earnings predictions
00:40:09 Creator economy's influence on election campaigns
00:51:09 Bezos ends Washington Post presidential endorsements
00:57:53 Celebrity collaborations and entertainment updates
01:03:47 Outro
Apple’s Vision Pro has had its fair share of challenges.
Initially aiming for 3 million units, the forecast adjusted down to 900,000, then 800,000, and ultimately?
Just 450,000 sold.
For a $3,500 device, that's a tough spot to be in.
Going from developer kit to flagship in a hurry? Classic Apple.
In this episode, the Morins and Lessins talk about:
- Apple vs Meta on AR
- AI & mental health, and
- journalistic integrity in tech reporting
We’re also on ↓
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
Elon’s robots are real... kind of?
On this episode of More or Less, we take a deep dive into the duality of Tesla.
Are we witnessing the future or yet another Disney ride?
Tune in as Brit, Dave, Sam, and Jess unpack:
• Tesla’s We, Robot event
• Why the retail army craves Planet Elon
• Waymo & the future of robovehicles
• Late-stage capitalism
We’re also on ↓
X: https://x.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Spotify: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/moreorlesspod
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
Google’s enjoyed a monopoly-sized head start for a while.
But it now looks like the DOJ’s ready to throw a wrench in its works.
Is a breakup of the search giant on the cards?
In EP 068 of the pod, Brit, Dave, and Jess talk all things:
- antitrust and Google,
- screen time and parental control, and
- why leveraging AI for consumer apps might still be a pipe dream.
We’re also on ↓
YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@MoreorLessPodv
X: https://twitter.com/moreorlesspod
Instagram: https://instagram.com/moreorless
Connect with us here:
1) Brit Morin: https://x.com/brit
2) Dave Morin: https://x.com/davemorin
3) Jessica Lessin: https://x.com/Jessicalessin
4) Sam Lessin: https://x.com/lessin
Chapters:
00:00 Trailer
01:11 Introduction
04:25 Google: A Breakup On The Cards?
08:24 Big Tech & Antitrust
27:43 Screen Time & Devices
31:14 Ditch Your Phone
32:14 Dr. Becky & Parenting
33:06 Health & Longevity
34:00 Spin-Offs: Good For Big Tech?
35:36 AI Predictions
43:52 The Future of Software
50:51 Consumer AI & Business Models
59:12 AI at Wimbledon and Final Thoughts
OpenAI Sets a Record and Will Apple Make Its Next Move?
00:00 - Introduction and The @VCBrags Twitter Account04:48 - The Sam and Dave Contest07:15 - OpenAI's Record-Breaking Funding Round13:04 - OpenAI's Product Strategy Shift18:05 - The Future of A.I. and Consumer Experiences19:28 - Apple's Potential in the A.I. Space26:23 - The Impact of A.I. on Software Development33:55 - Dave's Three A.I. Buckets: Fast, Slow, and Edge Models35:54 - Insane Evaluations and VC Funds39:24 - How Japan's Declining Birthrate is a Good Thing43:10 - Pop Culture Corner46:47 - Closing Thoughts and Future Tech Trends in Japan
Meta Connect, the Hardware Renaissance (or Not?) and Special Guest Dan Feder
Plus, China, the supply chain and Sam climbs a mountain.
MrBeast Strategy Doc: https://cybernews.com/news/mrbeast-leaked-pdf-spills-secrets-how-to-be-successful-on-youtube/
0:00 - Introduction and Debriefing Sam's Mountain Climbing Trip
5:50 - Instagram's New Teen Controls
10:20 - The Role of Tech Companies in Child Safety
12:34 - YouTube's New Hype Feature
13:30 - MrBeast's Leaked Strategy Doc
15:00 - Parental Controls
22:10 - Are YouTube Hypes just Tips?
27:45 - Amazon and The Shift Back to In-Person Work
32:54 - Temu and Regulation Loopholes
40:30 - Sam's Phrase: "Lick the Cookie"
41:50 - Crypto Innovations and Investments
Plus, is MrBeast the new BuzzFeed? And the latest with Stripe.
Sam's MrBeast is Buzzfeed 2.0: https://x.com/lessin/status/1833545048543375856?s=46
00:00 - Introduction and A Mystery
02:54 - An Honest Review of The Mill
04:46 - The Happenings and Headlines
05:16 - Reflections on The Acquired Podcast Live with Mark Zuckerburg
14:41 - A Critique of the Live Podcast Format
16:43 - Reflections on The Apple Launch Event
22:13 - New Markets for Apple to Break Into: CPAPs and Parental Controls
27:59 - An Honest Review of Bevel
29:54 - Revisiting the Parental Controls Conversation
30:19 - The Information's AI Summit
31:44 - University of Michigan's Venture Summit
33:37 - The Bill Gurley Chronicles
39:06 - Is MrBeast the New BuzzFeed?
48:39 - Strategies and Business Models for the Creator Economy
55:19 - The Intersection of the Payments Business and the Creator Economy
59:08 - PCC: The US Presidential Debate
1:00:10 - Outro
The right—and wrong—lessons about tech's favorite new topic. Plus, a new type of parental warning.
Show Notes:
00:00 - Introduction and Labor Day Tennis02:00 - Pickleball03:00 - Founder Mode05:00 - Organizational Structures12:00 - Founder Mode from a VC Perspective15:00 - Galaxy Brain vs. 100 Nodes18:00 - Uber vs. AirBNB22:00 - Optimizers vs. Builders25:00 - The Parent Analogy26:00 - Different Types of Founders30:00 - VC-backed Company Incentives33:00 - Long-Term Trajectory of Founders37:00 - Running a Business for Wall Street vs. Founder Mode39:00 - The Challenges of AirBNB43:00 - A Nasty Idea46:00 - Data Centers: A "Dick Measuring Contest"49:00 - The Surgeon General's Warning on Parenting52:30 - A Pool House Guest
Plus, Burning Man and Zuck's political moves.
Plus, a preview of Sam's new opus. And a More or Less fall meetup!
Show Notes:
00:00 - Introduction and Vacation Plans
01:14 - Sam's Unpublished Document on Higher Education
04:44 - Joe Rogan's Peter Thiel Interview Pt. 1
08:35 - Health and Wellness Trends
12:33 - Joe Rogan's Peter Thiel Interview Pt. 2
16:39 - The Reset Phase
25:06 - Capital-Efficient Investments
31:14 - Understanding S-Curves and A.I.
51:09 - Tinkerers in the Startup Ecosystem
59:12 - Apple's Prestige Dad TV
Plus, thank you Susan Wojcicki and the truth about remote work.
Plus, Sam's Instagram splurge and new science on how women should work out.
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