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Off Center

Off Center

Author: Off Center, a Podcast from the Center For Digital Narrative

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Off Center is a podcast series from the Center for Digital Narrative, a Norwegian Center of Research Excellence at the University of Bergen, Norway. In each episode, host Scott Rettberg and a guest delve into a topic revolving around digital storytelling and its effect on contemporary culture. The biweekly podcast series covers academic research on digital narratives in electronic literature, computer games, social media, computational narrative systems, AI, XR and more in an enjoyable and understandable way.
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On today’s episode, recent PhD graduate, Marianne Gunderson, joins Scott for a discussion on creepypasta, fanfiction and monsters, and machine vision. Doctor Gunderson has started her postdoctoral research at the ALGOFOLK (algorithmic folklore) project connected to the Center for Digital Narrative. References Andam, Julie. 2015. Skam. NRK. Atalaia, Nuno, and Marianne Gunderson. “Alexa’s Monstrous Agency: The Horror of the Digital Voice Assistant.” Not available in BORA awaiting publishing. 4Chan. 2003. “What is 4chan?” 4chan. https://4chan.org/. Gunderson, Marianne. 2017. “What is an omega? Rewriting sex and gender in omegaverse fanfiction.” [Master's thesis]. DOI:10.13140/RG.2.2.14405.47849. Gunderson, Marianne. 2024. “The Nexus of Algorithmic Visions: Agency, Imaginaries, and the Self in Sociotechnical Situations.” [Doctoral thesis]. https://bora.uib.no/bora-xmlui/handle/11250/3161190.
Mark Amerika is a visual artist, media theorist, and novelist. He is a professor of Art and Art History at the University of Colorado. In this episode, Scott and Mark will discuss Mark's career in art and academia, and some of his field-defining works.     References Amerika, Mark. 1997. GRAMMATRON. Alt-X. https://www.grammatron.com/   Amerika, Mark. 1995. Sexual Blood. Black Ice.   Amerika, Mark, Will Luers, & Chad Mossholder. 2023. Posthuman Cinema. https://posthumancinema.com/.  Gillespie, William, Rettberg, Scott, Stratton, Dirk, & Marquadt, Frank. 1999. The Unknown [Hypertext fiction]. Web. http://unknownhypertext.com/.    Rettberg, Scott. 2003. Destination Unknown: Experiments in the Network Novel. [Dissertation]. https://retts.net/documents/rettberg_dissertation.pdf  
Welcome back to a new episode of Off Center. Today, Scott is joined by Talan Memmott, a professor of Mass Communication at Winona State University. They discuss Talan's career as a digital artist and electronic literature artist, highlighting his latest work in cripistemology. Tune in now! References Jackson, Shelley. 1995. Patchwork Girl. Eastgate Systems. Joyce, Michael. 1987. Afternoon, a story. Eastgate Systems. Memmott, Talan. 2024. “A Cripistemology of Breath.” YouTube. 4 min., 32 sec. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4VRCSILVdgM Memmott, Talan. 1998. BeeHive - Hypertext/Hypermedia Literary Journal, 1(1). https://archive.thenext.eliterature.org/beehive/archive/11arc.html. Memmott, Talan. 2014. Digital Culture World Lecture Tour. [Netprov]. Memmott, Talan. 2023. Introducing Lary: The San Biagio Frescoes of Pietro Golamuto. https://talanmemmott.info/?p=729. Memmott, Talan. 2000. Lexia to Perplexia. Electronic Literature Collection Volume One. https://collection.eliterature.org/1/works/memmott__lexia_to_perplexia.html. Memmott, Talan, & Scott Rettberg. 2019. The Limerick Diet. Electronic Literature Organisation conference.
This week's episode fits the Halloween theme. Spooky places, historical sites, and digital narratives. In this episode, Scott is joined by Nicole Basaraba, Assistant Professor in Digital Humanities at Trinity College in Dublin. They discuss topics such as cultural heritage research and dark tourism.    References Basaraba, Nicole. 2023. “The Rise of Paranormal Investigations as Virtual Dark Tourism on YouTube.” Journal of Heritage Tourism 19(2): 287–309. doi:10.1080/1743873X.2023.2268746.  Basaraba, Nicole. 2022. Transmedia Narratives for Cultural Heritage: Remixing History. Routledge.  Sam and Colby. 2014. Sam and Colby. YouTube. [YouTube Channel]. YouTube. Retrieved October 24, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/c/samandcolby/about.  Sam and Colby. 2021. Our Demonic Encounter at Haunted Sallie House. YouTube. 1 hr., 10 min. Retrieved October 24, 2024, from https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bqwiR871KU.  
In this episode, Jordan Magnuson, Fulbright scholar at the Center for Digital Narrative, joins us for an interesting discussion about indie games. Jordan has a background in making video games from a very young age. Together with Scott, they discuss the crossover between games and poetry.     Electronic Literature Organisation. n. d. “Electronic Literature Organisation”. https://eliterature.org/.    Magnuson, Jordan. 2023. Game Poems: Videogame Design as Lyric Practice. Amherst College Press.  Magnuson, Jordan. 2018. “Poetic Videogames”. https://www.poeticvideogames.com/about.  Mojang Studios. 2011. Minecraft.  Mossmouth. 2013. Spelunky. https://spelunkyworld.com/index.html. Pope, Lucas. 2013. Papers, Please. 3909. https://store.steampowered.com/app/239030/Papers_Please/. 
Robert Coover was one of the most important American novelists of the 20th Century, the author of more than twenty books including novels, short story collections, plays and other writings. He was also a leading figure in the field of electronic literature, the teacher of many digital writing workshops at Brown University, the co-founder of the Electronic Literature Organization, and a tireless promoter of the field and of innovation in digital writing.  Robert Coover passed away on October 6, 2024, in the company of his family in Warwick, England, listening to “Penny Lane” by the Beatles as he drew his final breath.  This collage of voices, adapted from a simultaneously released Off Center podcast, is part of a larger project based on interviews that Robert Arellano and Scott Rettberg have been conducting with critics, creative writers, students, and friends of Coover in 2023-24, including many of the people who knew Coover’s work best. We also include a segment of a lecture titled “A History of the Future of Narrative” that Coover gave at the University of Bergen in 2008, and segments of interviews Larry McCaffery conducted with Coover in 1979 and 1999. In order of first appearance, the speakers include Robert Coover, Scott Rettberg, Robert Arellano, Larry McCaffery, Lance Olsen, Nick Montfort, Stéphane Vanderhaege, Caitlin Fisher, Thomas A. Bass, Tom LeClair, and Alvin Lu.
Off Center, the podcast, is back with a new episode. Scott Rettberg, our host, is joined by Jaroslav Švelch, an associate professor of media studies at Charles University in Prague. In this episode, they will discuss local game production in Czech Republic, gaming the iron curtain, and Jaroslav's book on monstrous antagonists in games.     References Croucher, Mel. 1984. Deus Ex Machina. Automata UK.  Namco. 1981. Galaga. Midway.  Spytihněv. 2023. HROT.  Spytihněv. https://store.steampowered.com/app/824600/HROT/.   Švelch, Jaroslav. 2023. Gaming the Iron Curtain. The MIT Press.  Švelch, Jaroslav. 2023. Player vs. Monster. The MIT Press.   Unknown. 1989. The Adventures of Indiana Jones in Wenceslas Square in Prague on January 16, 1989. Video Game.  
In this episode, Kat Mustatea joins Scott for a chat about the crossroad of technology and performance. Kat Mustatea is a playwright and technologist, and her tech-native storytelling stretches theatre into the digital age. They talk about her journey and her projects Voidopolis BodyMouth, and Lizardly in depth on this episode on Off Center.   References Mustatea, Kat & Heidi Boisvert. 2021. Lizardly. https://www.mustatea.com/lizardly.  Mustatea, Kat & Rozin, Yonatan. 2024. BodyMouth. https://www.mustatea.com/bodymouth.   Mustatea, Kat. 2023. Voidopolis. MIT Press Leonardo. 
Scott Rettberg is back with another season of the podcast Off Center. In this first episode of season 3, Scott is joined by Will Luers, a digital artist, filmmaker and writer. Luers also teaches web development, digital cinema and multimodal publishing in the Creative Media & Digital Culture program at Washington State University Vancouver. In this episode, they will discuss AI filmmaking and Luers’ previous works.   Sign up for the CDN newsletter here.   References Amerika, Mark. 2002. FILMTEXT 2.0.  Amerika, Mark. 2022. My Life as an Artificial Creative Intelligence. Stanford University Press.  Amerika, Mark, Will Luers, & Chad Mossholder. 2023. Posthuman Cinema. https://posthumancinema.com/.   Electronic Book Review. n. d. “Electronic Book Review.” https://electronicbookreview.com/.     Farrell, Lisa. 2024. Demons & Ghosts. doi: https://doi.org/10.7273/fbaj-sb31.   Johnston, Jhave. 2024. Identity Upgrade. doi: https://doi.org/10.7273/fs7n-a798.   Krauth, Alinta. 2024. The Songbird Speaks. doi: https://doi.org/10.7273/bpw7-an93.   Luers, Will (editor). 2020. Issue: 00 Digital Essayism. The Digital Review. https://thedigitalreview.com/issue00/index.html.   Luers, Will (editor). 2024. Issue: 04 AI-augmented Creativity. The Digital Review. https://thedigitalreview.com/index.html.   Luers, Will, Roger Dean, & austraLYSIS. 2013. Hypnagogia. https://will-luers.com/collage-cinema/hypnagogia.html.  Luers, Will, Hazel Smith, & Roger Dean. Novelling. https://dtc-wsuv.org/wluers/novelling/.   Rettberg, Scott. 2024. Fin du Monde. doi: https://doi.org/10.7273/m4ke-zs24.  
In the final episode of this second season of Off Center, Scott Rettberg is joined by Rob Wittig, a digital writing pioneer. Rob is an experimental writer in digital media and helped invent the genre Netprov. Learn more about what Netprov is in this episode. In this episode you find a new AI update with David Jhave Johnston, starting from 22:16. We will be back with another episode in September 2024. References de Chervantes, Michael. 1615. Don Quixote, Part Two. Francisco de Robles. Invisible Seattle. 1983-1993. IN.S.OMNIA. [Electronic magazine]. Rettberg, Scott. 2002. Kind of Blue. https://retts.net/kindofblue/. Wittig, Rob. 2002. Blue Company. https://www.robwit.net/bluecompany2002/. Wittig, Rob. 2000. Friday’s Big Meeting. [Netprov], https://www.robwit.net/fbm/. Wittig, Rob. 2012. Grace, Wit and Charm. [Netprov], http://gracewitandcharm.com/. Wittig, Rob. 1994. Invisible Rendezvous: Connection and Collaboration in the New Landscape of Electronic Writing. Wesleyan University Press. Wittig, Rob, & Marino, Marc C. 2016. Monstrous Weather. [Netprov], http://meanwhilenetprov.com/index.php/project/monstrous-weather/. Wittig, Rob & Marino, Marc C. 2016. One Week, No Tech. [Netprov], https://meanwhilenetprov.com/index.php/project/one-week-no-tech/. Wittig, Rob. 2021. Netprov: Networked Improvised Literature for the Classroom and Beyond. Amherst College Press. https://www.fulcrum.org/concern/monographs/pc289m47x. Wittig, Rob, & Wohlstetter, Philip. 1983. Invisible Seattle: The Novel of Seattle, by Seattle.
Scott Rettberg has a conversation with Alessandro Ludovico about his new MIT Press book: Tactical Publishing: Using Senses, Software, and Archives in the Twenty-First Century, and about 30 years of tracking digital culture as publisher of Neural magazine. References Ludovico, Alessandro. 2012. Post-Digital Print: The Mutation of Publishing since 1894. Onomatopee. Ludovico, Alessandro. 2023. Tactical Publishing: Using Senses, Software, and Archives in the Twenty-First Century. The MIT Press. Ludovico, Alessandro. 1992. Virtual Reality Handbook. Minus Habens Records. Neural. 1993. Neural Magazine. https://neural.it/ Rosetto, Louis, & Metcalfe, Jane. 1993. Wired Magazine. Issue 1. Swift, Johnathan. 1726. Gulliver’s Travels. Benjamin Motte.
Scott Rettberg is back with another episode of the podcast ‘Off Center’. This time he is joined by Søren Pold, Associate professor of Digital Design at Aarhus University. They discuss digital literature, platformazation, and the COVID-19 pandemic. This episode also includes a new AI update with David Jhave Johnston. Together with Scott, he will bring you up to date about recent AI medical advances. The AI update starts at 18:13. References   Abramson, Josh, Adler, Jonas, Dunger, Jack, et al. 2024. Accurate structure prediction of biomolecular interactions with AlphaFold 3. Nature 630, 493–500. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-024-07487-w.   Ahmad, Irshad. 2022. CRISPR/Cas9—A Promising Therapeutic Tool to Cure Blindness: Current Scenario and Future Prospects. International Journal of Molecular Sciences, 23(19), 11482.  Andersen, Christian U., & Pold, Søren B. 2023. The Metainterface: The Art of Platforms, Cities, and Clouds. The MIT Press.   Elias, Pierre, Jain, Sneha, Poterucha, Timothy, et al. 2024. Artificial Intelligence for Cardiovascular Care-Part 1: Advances: JACC Review Topic of the Week. Journal of the American College of Cardiology.  Fuller, Matthew, Green, Colin, & Pope Simon. 1997. The Web Stalker. I/O/D.  Nacher, Anna, Rettberg, Scott, & Pold, Søren. 2021. COVID E-LIT: Digital Art from the Pandemic. Electronic Book Review. DOI: 10.7273/kehh-8c3.  Nacher, Anna, Rettberg, Scott, Pold, Søren Bro & Steele, Ashleigh. 2022. COVID E-LIT: Digital Art During the Pandemic. Documentary. 44 min., 12 sec.    Rettberg, Jill Walker. 2010. Feral hypertext: when hypertext literature escapes control. International Handbook of Internet Research, 477-492.  Richard, Guillaume, de Almeida, Bernardo P., Dalla-Torre, Hugo, et al. 2024. ChatNT: A Multimodal Conversational Agent for DNA, RNA and Protein Tasks. bioRxiv, 2024-04.  Ruffolo, Jeffrey A., Nayfach, Stephen, Gallagher, Joseph, et al. 2024. Design of highly functional genome editors by modeling the universe of CRISPR-Cas sequences. bioRxiv, 2024-04. https://doi.org/10.1101/2024.04.22.590591.  Yang, Lin, Xu, Shawn, Sellergren, Andrew, et al. 2024. Advancing Multimodal Medical Capabilities of Gemini. arXiv preprint arXiv:2405.03162.  Zhao, Yujahio, Ding, Ye, Lau Vick, et al. 2024. Whole-body magnetic resonance imaging at 0.05 Tesla. Science. DOI:10.1126/science.adm7168.  
In a new episode of ‘Off Center’, Scott Rettberg and Gabriele de Seta come together for a discussion about Chinese surveillance compared to Western surveillance and Gabriele’s new research project on Algorithmic Folklore. Tune in now.  References de Seta, Gabriele. 2024. “An algorithmic folklore: Vernacular creativity in times of everyday automation” In Critical meme reader III: Breaking the meme. Institute of Network Cultures.   De Seta, Gabriele. 2015. Dajiangyou: Media practices of vernacular creativity in postdigital China. [Thesis doctoral].   De Seta, Gabriele, & Shchetvina, Anya. 2023. Imagining machine vision: Four visual registers from the Chinese AI industry. AI & Society. https://doi.org/10.1007/s00146-023-01733-x.  Merchant, Amil, Batzner, Simon, Schoenholz, Samuel S. et al. 2023. Scaling deep learning for materials discovery. Nature, 624, 80–85. https://doi.org/10.1038/s41586-023-06735-9.  Perrault, Ray, & Clark, Jack. 2024. Artificial Intelligence Index Report 2024. Stanforth University. 
In this new episode of the podcast Off Center, Scott Rettberg is joined by Mario Aquilina, Associate Professor of English at the University of Malta. They discuss the definition of essay, the effects of AI on essays and whether there is an AI essayistic. Listen now!  Sign up for ⁠⁠⁠⁠the CDN newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠ here. References Aquilina, Mario. 2021. The Essay at the Limits. Bloomsbury Publishing.   Cayley, John. 2023. “Modelit: eliterature à la (language) mode(l)”. Electronic Book Review. https://doi.org/10.7273/2bdk-ng31.  de Montaigne, Michel. 1588. Essais. Publishers: Millanges and Jean Richer.  Johnson, Samuel. 1755. A Dictionary of the English Language. Consortium. 
In this episode of Off Center, Scott Rettberg is joined by Ben Grosser, a professor of New Media at the University of Illinois. Ben is a well-known software artist who critically approaches digital media and platforms in his work. Listen now!  Sign up for ⁠the CDN newsletter⁠ here. References Grosser, Benjamin. 2012. Facebook Demetricator. Web browser extension.  https://bengrosser.com/projects/facebook-demetricator/.  Grosser, Benjamin. 2014. What do metrics want? How quantification prescribes social interaction on Facebook. Computational Culture. http://computationalculture.net/what-do-metrics-want/.  Grosser, Benjamin. 2019. Order of magnitude. Video. 47:15 minutes. https://bengrosser.com/projects/order-of-magnitude/.  Perrault, Ray, & Clark, Jack. 2024. Artificial Intelligence Index Report 2024. Stanforth University.  Mallapaty Smriti. 2024. AI traces mysterious metastatic cancers to their source. Nature, 628(8009). 699-700. doi: 10.1038/d41586-024-01110-8.  Downey, Sean C. 2024. “The Godmother of AI. How Fei-Fei Li ’99 is safeguarding the future of human and artificial intelligence”. https://alumni.princeton.edu/stories/fei-fei-li-woodrow-wilson-award.   Grosser, Benjamin. 2021. Deficit of less. Video. 47:15 minutes. https://bengrosser.com/projects/deficit-of-less/.  Grosser, Benjamin. 2020. Not for you. Browser extension.  https://bengrosser.com/projects/not-for-you/.  Smith, Ben. 2021. “How TikTok reads your mind”. New York Times. https://www.nytimes.com/2021/12/05/business/media/tiktok-algorithm.html.  Grosser, Benjamin. 2020. The Endless Doomscroller. https://endlessdoomscroller.com/. 
This time on Off Center, Scott Rettberg is joined by Sarah Edmands Martin, a designer and researcher at the University of Notre Dame. Her research takes place at the intersection of visual communication design, critical fabulation, and media aesthetics. In this episode they discuss speculative design.  References Bierut, M. 2015. How to use graphic design to sell things, explain things, make things look better, make people laugh, make people cry, and (every once in a while) change the world change the world. United Kingdom: Thames & Hudson.  Berry, Anne, H., & Sarah Edmands Martin. 2020-2021. Ongoing Matter. Exhibitions at The Galleries at CSA, College of Liberal Arts and Social Sciences, Cleveland State University, and The Cook Center Galleries, Maxwell Hall, Indiana University.   Jagoda, Patrick, & Sarah Edmands Martin. In Progress. Otherworldly Games: An Atlas of Possible Realities. 
Welcome back to a new episode of Off Center. In this episode Scott Rettberg is joined by Kristine Jørgensen, professor of media studies and PI at the Center for Digital Narrative. They talk about male gaming culture, transgressive games, and understanding male gamers.  Sign up for ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠the CDN newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ here.   References (in order of appearance) Espen, Aarseth. 1997. Cybertext: Perspectives on Ergodic Literature. Johns Hopkins University Press.  Smith, Paul, & Howard, Steve. 1987. Bride of Frankenstein. 39 Steps.   US Army. 2015. America’s Army: Proving Grounds. US Army. https://store.steampowered.com/app/203290/Americas_Army_Proving_Grounds/.  11 Bit Studios. 2014. This war of mine. 11 Bit Studios.  https://store.steampowered.com/app/282070/This_War_of_Mine/.  Destructive Creations. 2015. Hatred. Destructive Creations.  https://store.steampowered.com/app/341940/Hatred/.  DMA Design. 1997. Grand Theft Auto. BMG Interactive.   Mortensen, Torill Elvira & Jørgensen, Kristine. 2020. “The Carnivalesque Aesthetics of Games” In The Paradox of Transgression in Games. Routledge.   Den Norske Forfatterforening. February 8, 2024. “Enighet om KI-appendiks" Den Norske Forfatterforening, retrieved on April 3, 2024, from https://www.forfatterforeningen.no/artikkel/enighet-om-ki-appendiks/.  Bjørkelo, Kristian, A. 2020. “Elves are Jews with Pointy Ears and Gay Magic”: White Nationalist Readings of The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. The International Journal of Computer Game Research, 20(3). https://gamestudies.org/2003/articles/bjorkelo.   Bethesda Game Studios. 2011. The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim. Bethesda Softworks.  Blizzard Entertainment. 2004. World of Warcraft. Blizzard Entertainment. https://worldofwarcraft.blizzard.com/en-us/.  Black Isle Studios. 1999. Planescape: Torment. Beamdog. https://planescape.com/. 
Scott Rettberg and Patrick Jagoda, professor at the university of Chicago, and cofounder of the Game Changer Chicago Design Lab and the Transmedia Story Lab, talk about alternate reality games and transmedia storytelling in this episode of Off Center. They talk about games Patrick has been working on.  Sign up for ⁠⁠⁠⁠the CDN newsletter⁠⁠⁠⁠ here. References (in order of appearance) Spielberg, Steven, director. 2001. A.I. Artificial Intelligence. Warner Bros. Pictures. 2 hr., 26 min.  Gilliam, Melissa, director. 2013. The Source. Game Changer Chicago Design Lab. Alternate reality game. http://www.patrickjagoda.com/projects/the-source.  Jagoda, Patrick, & Coleman, Heidi, directors. 2022. Cene. Fourcast Lab. Alternate reality game. https://fourcastlab.com/cene/.  Jagoda, Patrick, & Bennett, Ireashia, & Sparrow, Ashlyn. 2022. Transmedia Stories: Narrative Methods for Public Health and Social Justice. Stanford University Press. https://transmediastories.org/.   Slade, D, director. 2018. Black Mirror: Bandersnatch. House of Tomorrow. Netflix. 1 hr, 30 min. https://www.netflix.com/no-en/title/80988062.   Coleman, Heidi, & Jagoda, Patrick, directors. 2023. Encounter. Fourcast Lab. Alternate reality game. https://fourcastlab.com/encounter/. 
A new episode of Off Center in which Scott and Mathias Klang, a lawyer and professor at Fordham University, talk about surveillance microcosms and how spying is shaping our lives.   In this episode, Scott and Jhave, a previous guest on Off Center, give the first 5-minute AI update. Sign up for ⁠⁠⁠the CDN newsletter⁠⁠⁠ here. References Rettberg, Jill Walker. 2024. Machine Vision: How Algorithms Are Changing the Way We See the World. Cambridge, UK: Polity Press.  Bentham, Jeremy, 1748-1832. 1995. The Panopticon Writings. London; New York: Verso.  Orwell, George. 1949. 1984. England: Secker & Warburg.  Foucault, Michel. 1977. Discipline and Punish: The Birth of the Prison. New York: Pantheon Books.  Suno Inc. 2024. Suno AI. https://www.suno.ai/.  Johnston, D. J. 2018. ReRites. Anteism Books. https://glia.ca/rerites/.  Forsgren, Seth & Hayk Martiros. 2022. Riffusion. https://www.riffusion.com/.   sp0n, Inc. 2017. Citizen. Android & iOS. 
In this second episode of season two, Scott is joined by Jill Walker Rettberg, co-director of the Center for Digital Narrative to talk about her book on Machine Vision and how algorithms are changing the way we see the world.  Sign up for ⁠⁠the CDN newsletter⁠⁠ here. References Rettberg, Jill Walker. 2024. Machine Vision: How Algorithms Are Changing the Way We See the World. Cambridge, UK: Polity Press.  Vertov, Dziga, director. 1929. Man with a Movie Camera. All-Ukrainian Photo Cinema Administration. 68 minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Man_With_A_Movie_Camera_(Dziga_Vertov,_1929).webm   Hayles, N. Katherine. 1999. How We Became Posthuman: Virtual Bodies in Cybernetics, Literature and Informatics. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.  Ring LLC. 2017. Neighbors by Ring. Android & iOS. Shusterman, Neal. 2018. Thunderhead. Simon & Schuster. Kronman, Linda. 2019. The deception of an infinite view – exploring machine vision in digital art. BCS Learning and Development Ltd. http://dx.doi.org/10.14236/ewic/POM19.11.
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