Organising For A Change - the podcast for union builders

In this episode, we eyeball AI.  It’s time to demystify what Artificial intelligence actually is and get to grips with the keyunion-building issues associated with this so-called “5th Industrial Revolution”  Our discussion is made credible with the help of our guestand AI expert, Adam Cantwell-Corn. And Adam’s starting point is that “we need to not exceptionalise AI….it’s a pay and conditions issue.” So far so clear, but how do we make unions and unionbuilding the “champions of a positive technological future?”   What does a just tech transition look like – because “if deskilling is the result, where will our bargainingpower be?” And what would be good regulation? The answers to these visceral questions emerge during afascinating ramble across the AI landscape – taking nebulous concepts and seeing how they apply to issues that are here now:  surge pricing, body-worn camera and advanced, accelerated data processing.  From cab drivers to teachers to legal aid solicitors, welook at how unions are already engaging with AI at the levels of design and decision-making not just deployment – and why this needs to happen far more than it currently does. So much of the talk about AI is deliberately obscure – thatends here.  All you need to do is lend us your ears for 30 minutes! As ever, the discussion is calm, measured and derived from a combined 80 years plus of union activism.  Where we disagree, we do so amicably.  But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education,building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Episode run time 33m10s. Organising For A Change ispresented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 28 March 2025.  Next episode drops 11 April. 

The blacklisting scandal was one of the most egregious actsof anti-unionism of the last 50 years.  One of the founder members of the Blacklist Support Group is Dave Smithwho joins us in this episode.  Dave shares his assessment of the campaign against union building in the construction industry: The motivation and organisation of anti-union employersand how union organisers had to work clandestinely to secure fair and timely payment of wages, safe working conditions, and recognition of legitimate concerns over terms and conditions – often without mentioning the word “union”at all! Unmissable!  As ever, our discussion is calm, measured and derived from acombined 80 years of union activism.  Where we disagree, we do so amicably.  But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The GeneralFederation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education,building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Episode run time 38m14s. Organising For A Change ispresented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 14 March 2025.  Next episode drops 28  March.

Martin and Simon are joined by Mick Rix to get behind the headlines of successful organising campaigns in, for example,Deliveroo to look at what tactics are needed to make such work successful - and what success itself looks like. Plus a quick guide to the Labor Radio Podcast Network, of which 04AC is a proud member.We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The GeneralFederation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.Episode run time 30m24s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 14 February 2025.  Next episode drops 28  February.

In this episode we look at  the idea of so-called “big bargaining,” and the way that fits into an overall organizing strategy.  We’ve talked in previous episodes about building unity and the five core principles that union builders, we believe, should adopt to build that unity in workplaces. This goes into more detail about how you do that, by exploiting the bargaining agenda. Our starting point is that union building and union bargaining are two sides of the same coin, and as well as being a really important principle behind what we discuss in this episode, it also fits into a wider portfolio of skills or strands that form what we would regard as a complete and comprehensive organising strategy. As ever, our discussion is calm, measured and derived from a combined 80 years of union activism.  Where we disagree, we do so amicably.  But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Episode run time 24m02s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgainsing@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 31 January 2025.  Next episode drops 14 February. Big Bargaining is waiting for you!

The first episode in the third series of the Organising For A Change podcast is preoccupied with targeting – or in other words a model of strategic choice for union builders.   Because two things seem to be universally true; First, activity is frequently measured on process (how many leaflets handed out, how many social media hits), rather than outcome (how many members signed up). And second, if your AIM is true, then you will hit the target.   But this AIM is different from most – we use it as an acronym for Access, Issues and Momentum.  And this AIM is a model for setting effective, appropriate realisable targets to support the union building process.   Listen to hear what that means in practice!   As ever, our discussion is calm, measured and derived from a combined 80 years of union activism.  Where we disagree, we do so amicably. But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate.   We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Episode run time 26m24s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgainsing@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 17 January 2025.  Next episode drops 31 January.

In the new episode of Organising For A Change,  we look at Leadership in the context of our unions.  We discuss how and why notions of leadership in the labour movement have become constrained within very tight parameters, and think about Machiavelli’s universal truth that what you need to do to achieve leadership status is often very different to what you have to do to preserve it.  We also look at how ideas about leadership can end up disempowering the very members unions need to enthuse and energise. What does good, effective leadership look like in today’s movement – and how can we give ourselves the best chance of securing it? Two things are for sure – first, that the best leaders of tomorrow are those we don’t even yet know.  And second, we need to leave space for those future leaders to develop, grow and, yes, lead. We’re grateful to have the support of ⁠Thompsons⁠, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The ⁠General Federation of Trade Unions⁠ - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of ⁠StrikeMap⁠, Pellacraft⁠, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and ⁠Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council⁠. Thank you all. Organising for a change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by ⁠Scott Holmes⁠. It is a ⁠Makes-You-Think⁠ production. Recorded in April 2024, first published August 2024.

As union builders prioritise holding Labours feet to the fire over their existing commitments to 33 new workers’ rights, its important that we make the government understand we will always want more and UBI/4DW pilots are also on our agenda. Always have a claim on the table! The notion of a UK standard four day working week has gained fresh impetus with the election of a new government.  A second major trial is planned - run by the UK’s 4 Day Week Campaign and flexible working consultancy Timewise, and due to report in later 2025.    In this episode, Martin and Simon discuss why the idea was so strongly opposed by the outgoing Conservative government, and (spoiler alert) whether that stance was motivated more by antipathy to workers’organising to take more control over their working hours than any evidence base about the virtues (or otherwise) of a shorter working  week.   Because let’s face it, when a quarter of the workforce can't get enough hours of work and want more because of low pay and broadly, a quarter of the workforce are working far too many hours and being overworked, we’ve got a problem and one that it is imperative we address.  We mull over what that means in practice and why the prize for getting this right is wider, deeper and bigger than many may recognise.   But if the campaign for a 4 day working week is attracting a fair following wind, calls for a Universal Basic Income (UBI) are in far rougher waters.   We debate exactly how and why UBI is linked to four day working and argue that UBI can be a far more effective and beneficial form of state subsidised pay than the current benefits arrangements.   In fact, in moving to universal basic income, we would just be reflecting something that's happening with the current deployment of universal credit anyway, but giving more agency over what peopple spend. And while, in our view, UBI would make a huge difference to the lowest paid workers, it's hardly going to see them going out and booking flights to Vegas to splash their newfound wealth.   As you’d expect, we’ve also got our eyes on the inter-relationship between union organising to deliver both shorter working weeks and UBI, and the union building dividend that comes with both the campaign and what the campaign achieves.   We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Saper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgaising@makes-you-think.com. Episode run time 26m08s. This episode was recorded in April and first published on 19 July.  Next episode drops 2 August19.

This episode features a story of union building against the odds – disparate workers, often isolated from each other,a “sweetheart” union and employer hostility.  For Paul Day and his colleagues in the Pharmacists Defence Association Union(PDAU), the challenge in organising the pharmacists in Boots plc was significant.  We discuss with Paul the process of removing the in-houseunion sand then engaging with potential members, the experience of having to use the statutory recognition/derecognition measures and what happened next.In this instance, what happened next was further union building success for the PDAU in the former Lloyds chemists’ group and more recently Superdrug.Paul is an engaging and captivating guest – someone whoreally has “worn the t-shirT and eaten the pie” as they say. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The GeneralFederation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education,building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.Episode run time 32m22s. Organising For A Change ispresented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 11 April.  Organising For A Change willreturn in the autumn.

In this episode, we sit down with Kelly Andrews to talk about union building in the social care sector.  Kelly takes us on her journey from being a lay rep in the now discredited and bust Southern Cross care providers, to leading the GMB union’s work in the sector as a whole.  It’s a helluva ride. In what is a vital master class for union builders , Kellydescribes·     how fragile recognition agreements can me whenconfronted by aggressive and unprincipled employers,  ·     the absolutely essential maxim of going to wheremembers are (even if that is in the proverbial middle of nowhere at 11 o’clock on a wet and windy autumn night) rather than where you want them to be·     and why in this sector if no other, politics is never very far away. If you think you know union building and believe that you’veseen it all, this episode could well make you think again. And if you are prevaricating about building a consensus to fix social care, listen to this and resolve to do better. As ever, our discussion is calm, measured and derived from acombined 80 years of union activism.  Where we disagree, we do so amicably.  But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The GeneralFederation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education,building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Episode run time 29m16s. Organising For A Change ispresented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 28 February 2025.  Next episode drops 14  March.

Campaigning is in our blood – isn’t it? The answer must surely be Yes,  but do we always campaigning for the things that we really truly want and need? So, if you have lost sight of your campaign objectives, are bedazzled by spurious metrics, listen to this Organising For A Change podcast and feel better.  We don’t have the answers, but we know the right questions to ask yourself to make sure you do. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Episode run time 19m14s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was published on 6 December.  Organising For A Change will return early in the new year.

£104 million in recovered back pay, £41 million in members’ pay per year going forward, 5000 new members recruited and 164 days of Industrial action with employers who refused to engage. That’s the output, so far, for Unison’s campaign to recruit and organise Healthcare Assistants in the NHS.  National officer Louise Chinnery tells how it was done and what’s been learned, and why she describes this work as “the single most amazing thing I have had the pleasure to be involved with”, in her 30 years of working in the union movement. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Episode run time 30m33s. The Organising For A Change podcast is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organsing@makes-you-think.com. 

“Employers will often seek to divide people at work…by sewing doubt and fear. We need to replace that with anger, hope and self-confidence.”  This is the first of 5 principles of building unity, joined by a focus on workplace issues, building solidarity between groups in the same workplace, using bargaiing as a means of building and, crucially, making sure that structures and decision-making  are democratic (and on this last point, reflecting that unity is not the same as unanimity ). Peppered with anecdotes and illustrations from a combined 80 years in the union movement, this is a conversation of our times for our times.  As ever, our discussion is calm and measured. Where we disagree, we do so amicably.  We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Episode run time 28m08s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 8 November 2024.  Next episode drops 22 November.

We are joined for this episode by Avril Chambers, the driving force behind one of the GMB union's biggest union building successes - organising school support staff. Avril shares the background to identifying and then union building amongst a new workforce of several hundred thousand. Those who say "it can't be done", "it costs too much", "it will never work" need to pay particular attention. The rest of us can only listen in admiration! More information at gmb.org.uk/public-services/schools-academies-and-education/. Companion blog here!

Organisationstend to do what they were designed to do, And unions were designed quite a long time ago in some cases. And what they need to do and what they actually do has kind of diverged. Unfortunately, there's no theory of change a union can take off the shelf and say, right, if we do that, that'll work. You have to start in your own organisation. Easy to say, more difficult to do - Simon and Martin share their decades of union experience to try and come up with a few pointers. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Episode run time 30m07s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com.  This episode was first published on 11 October.  Next episode drops 25 October.

Welcome to Series 2. In this episode, we're going to talk about how and why people join unions, and it’s not just because it's obviously the right thing to do.   Over the last 30 years we can probably say we know a lot more than people might think about the dynamics about how and why people join unions.   While the power of data is growing and is phenomenal in terms of helping us understand the how and the why. But the fundamentals don't actually change much, and we discuss how the 5 C’s are still at the core of any union building strategy.    So far so good, and potentially very powerful stuff.  So to find out what the 5 C’s are, and why (and if) they still hold good, listen and make up your own mind! We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Episode run time 29m10s. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgainsing@makes-you-think.com. This episode was first published on 27 September.  Next episode drops 11 October.

In this episode, we look at what happens when despite a great organising campaign – one where you recruit lots of people, and you make a lot of noise, and you really gain traction - and then you reach a certain point, and then enter the CAC process for formal statutory recognition, or something else happens, which means you hit a sort of ceiling, and you stop. What then happens to the energy? What then happens to the membership? What happens to the union building process in such circumstances? As ever, our discussion is calm, measured and derived from a combined 80 years of union activism. Where we disagree, we do so amicably. But there’s no getting away from the importance or relevance of this debate. We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Sapper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at organising@makes-you-think.com. Episode run time 30m05s. This episode was first published on 13 September.  Next episode drops 27 September.

Silos are a big problem for all organisations but unions in particular. High-trust and dynamic activity risks being undermined by suspicion, and dysfunctional priority-setting. Martin and Simon explore the causes and characteristics of silos and what can be done to dismantle these barriers to effective union building, and to stop them developing to start with. We’re grateful to have the support of ⁠Thompsons⁠, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The ⁠General Federation of Trade Unions⁠ - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of ⁠StrikeMap⁠, ⁠Pellacraft⁠, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and ⁠Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council⁠. Thank you all.   Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Saper. Music is by ⁠Scott Holmes⁠. It is a ⁠Makes-You-Think⁠ production. Contact the show at ⁠orgaising@makes-you-think.com⁠. Episode run time 24m45s. This episode was first published on 30 August. 

National pay bargaining is in decline and doesn't always work as intended. In the episode we argue that we should disaggregate the one-size fits-all approach and encourage and empower more local union activity - a race to the top if you will. But what if local structures can’t or don’t support such a model? What might be the unintended consequences of accelerating the deterioration of national bargaining? Will there be debilitating jealousies between or within unions? We certainly don’t dodge these key questions: We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all.   Organising For A Change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Saper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Contact the show at orgaising@makes-you-think.com. Episode run time 26m12s. This episode was first published on 16 August. 

In this episode Simon and Martin look back to 1997 and argue that unions were too much in awe of the Labour landslide of that year, and failed to reap the best set of outcomes from a relatively benign political environment, despite many notable advances. Now, unions are growing in membership and strength and relevance for the first time in decades. With a new government getting their feet under the table, it’s time to get off our knees. Crucially, how can we learn the lessons of 1997 and avoid the mistakes? Listen and find out! We’re grateful to have the support of Thompsons, the leading trade union and social justice law firm, The General Federation of Trade Unions - delivering trade union education, building solidarity and the home of StrikeMap, Pellacraft, award winning and trusted supplier of promotional goods, and Battersea and Wandsworth Trade Union Council. Thank you all. Organising for a change is presented by Martin Smith and Simon Saper. Music is by Scott Holmes. It is a Makes-You-Think production. Recorded in April 2024, first published July 2024. Total run time 29m21s