Law firms are no longer operating in a period of stability; they require momentum. Marketing leaders are expected to evolve alongside the business, retrofitting strategy around lateral growth, proving value through data, and guiding attorneys who are neither new nor at the top. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, we’re joined by Kathryn Whitaker, Chief Marketing Officer at Burr & Forman, to explore how her leadership and strategic approach have adapted since her first appearance on the podcast back in 2022. Kathryn shares insights into how marketing supports opportunistic expansion, the shift toward outcome-driven metrics, and why mid-career attorneys might be the biggest missed opportunity in law firm growth strategy today. Kathryn and Eugene discuss: Law firm growth through strategic scaling Lateral integration to build long-term success The importance of data-driven storytelling to inform decisions AI’s practical impact on efficiency and visibility The underleveraged investment in mid-career attorneys
What does it take to modernise a 450-year-old law firm without losing the legacy that makes it iconic? Charlotte Eberlein, Head of Marketing and Business Development at Thomson Snell & Passmore, has spent over a decade answering that question in real-time. She has built a business development culture from the ground up, brought PR in-house, and helped the firm deliver big law impact on a regional budget. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlotte joins Will Eke to talk through that journey and the lessons she’s learned along the way. Charlotte and Will cover: Charlotte’s journey from big law to a regional role at Thomson Snell & Passmore, and the moment business development became her focus The biggest differences and similarities between a regional independent firm and a big law firm How to build a reputation that punches above its weight and delivers big law impact on a leaner budget The history of Thomson Snell & Passmore and how to strike the balance between heritage and keeping the brand modern and relevant How to compete with limited resources, where to focus investment, and what to leave off the table Key projects Charlotte is driving forward right now Advice for others trying to market a regional or mid-sized firm with limited resources
Driving business development in a mid-sized regional firm is rarely about large budgets. It’s about sharp strategy, creativity and the ability to make every action count. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Kelley Goes, Member and Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jackson Kelly, joins Alex Haidar to share how her unconventional career path has shaped her bold, practical approach to legal marketing and BD. Kelley’s journey began as a litigator at Akin Gump, moving into public service as West Virginia’s Secretary of Commerce, and later serving as State Operations Director for Joe Manchin. Having been a private practitioner, a public servant, the client and the lawyer to the client, she brings a uniquely rounded perspective to her role at Jackson Kelly. Today, she leads marketing and BD for the firm with a focus on clarity, confidence and doing more with less. She talks openly about defining the right target audiences, supporting lean teams and introducing new tools without losing lawyers along the way. Her leadership philosophy, shaped by years working with high-stakes decision-makers, is grounded in authenticity, accountability and lifting up the people around her. Kelley and Alex discuss: How an unexpected career path from litigation to public office prepared Kelley for legal marketing The leadership lessons she learned working alongside figures like Joe Manchin Why confidence, tight messaging and clear audience targeting matter more than budget Her creative internal BD initiatives and associate-focused engagement How she builds non-traditional teams and bridges creative and legal cultures Practical advice for lean BD and marketing teams wanting to better support their lawyers
For this year’s Thanksgiving edition of the CMO Series Podcast, we bring together an outstanding group of legal marketing leaders to reflect on the people and practices that have shaped their careers. What emerges is a clear and compelling message about the importance of trust, collaboration and shared generosity in building strong marketing teams and firm cultures. Thank you to our special guests for sharing their insights: Angela Pandolfo Roy, Chief Marketing Officer at Gibbons, Maura Brandt, Chief Marketing Officer at Crowell & Moring, Sarah Kempsey, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Montgomery McCracken, Michael Huntsman, Chief Business Development and Marketing Officer at Bilzin Sumberg Baena Price & Axelrod, Phill McGowan, Founder of Phill McGowan Marketing, Alexandra DeFelice, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Jeffer Mangels Butler & Mitchell LLP, Vanessa Crocetto, Chief Marketing Officer at Butzel, Douglas Gold, Chief Operating Officer at Mitchell Silberberg & Knupp LLP, Rebecca Wissler, Chief Marketing and Business Development Officer at Ice Miller, Danielle Wuschke Paige, Chief Marketing and Growth Officer at Nixon Peabody LLP, and Lindsey McReynolds, Chief Client Relations Officer at Schwabe Williamson & Wyatt. Across the episode, they share how firms can build environments where collaboration truly thrives. Creating space for people to contribute, recognising effort, supporting new ideas and giving credit freely all strengthen teams and empower talent to grow. Their reflections remind us that the most successful organisations are built on trust and a genuine willingness to lift others up. It’s a thoughtful and timely conversation for this season of gratitude. Wishing you a wonderful Thanksgiving.
If you’re a law firm marketer, you know the pressure of balancing attorney demands, limited resources, and the need to stay genuinely strategic. The job is more than execution. It requires sharp prioritization and a steady, trusted voice over time. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Alex Haidar talks with Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Founder of Builden Partners and legal marketing leader with experience at firms such as Foley & Lardner, Baker McKenzie, and Citadel. She shares practical, process-focused guidance to make marketing effective where it truly counts. They discuss the skills legal marketers need to thrive, from earning attorney loyalty to influencing decisions with confidence and preparing the next generation to succeed. Jocelyn shares: Her inspiring journey into professional services marketing and her own ventures The biggest gaps and challenges currently within legal marketing Critical skills that junior marketers need to possess Her successful Spark Legal Marketing Masterclass Future opportunities to excel in legal marketing Advice for CMOs on driving team growth
Most law firm CMOs agree that cross-selling is the fastest and most cost-effective way to grow law firm revenue. Yet, our latest research shows that 84% of law firms are missing out on these opportunities. The biggest barriers to cross-selling success are awareness and trust. Lawyers need the confidence to refer work which requires trust across teams, and they need visibility into the full scope of the firm’s expertise so they know what their colleagues actually do. That’s where CrossPitch AI comes in. At a recent CMO Series event in London, Connor Kinnear unpacked the challenges, the opportunities, and how AI can help firms finally make cross-selling happen. In this special edition of the CMO Series Podcast, Connor dives deeper into: The ongoing challenge of cross-selling, and why it remains so important How Passle’s CrossPitch AI helps firms connect the dots What’s behind the impressive engagement results clients are seeing How the new Cross-Selling Intelligence Map makes collaboration visible
Making an impact in business development isn’t about following a script; it’s about finding what works, what doesn’t, and where you can really move the needle. Through the power of listening and successful automation strategies, important client relationships can be strengthened. Today on the Passle CMO Series podcast, Charles is joined by Charlotte Watt, Head of Business Development at Brabners, to hear about her journey from the British Army to BD in the legal sector, and how her early career experiences shaped her people-first and results-driven approach. With nearly two years at the firm, Charlotte shares many key insights that she has learned along the way. From navigating the challenges of stepping into law to developing practical initiatives involving structure, coaching and human touch. Charlotte and Charles discuss: Charlotte's unique journey into Business Development The initial challenges she faced in her role How she used early career experiences to help her succeed Approaches to avoid in the initial phases Recommendations and initiatives to successfully engage with clients
Implementing a seamless Content Management System that is able to grow alongside the firm in the long-term should be a top priority within law firms digital strategies. Through extended team collaboration, firms can create a shared vision for suitable future marketing technology, ensuring flexibility and scalability, while also boosting efficiency and SEO. Today on the Passle CMO Series Digital Masterclass Podcast, we’re diving into CMS for the legal sector, a crucial part of a firm’s marketing and business development toolkit. Carrie Dyer, Digital Account Director at Appius, a company with deep experience in the legal market, with clients including Freshfields and Ashurst, joins us to discuss how firms can choose the right CMS. Carrie shares her insights on: Appius’ experience and high reputation within the legal market The critical importance of creating an effective CMS Various main CMS platforms and their different offerings The key factors and processes to consider when selecting a CMS Common pitfalls many firms continue to face Her expert takeaways for implementing a successful CMS
Live from the Lex Mundi Americas Regional Marketing and Business Development Roundtable in Denver, this special episode of the CMO Series Podcast dives into Cross-Selling in Practice. Ali Bone is joined by Susan Lee Hollender, Chief Growth Officer at Michael Best & Friedrich, to explore how firms can move from intention to action. Drawing on insights from Passle’s AI & Cross-Selling Report 2025, the conversation unpacks what’s working across the Lex Mundi network, the barriers that hold firms back, and what clients truly want to see. From building trust and awareness to proven approaches and success stories, Susan and Ali discuss the practical lessons and ideas for how firms can make cross-selling easier and more impactful.
In an industry where tradition often outweighs transformation, building trust and influence is the foundation for earning long-term credibility and needs to start from within. In today’s must-listen episode of the CMO Series podcast, Eugene speaks with Jennifer Stokes, Senior Director of Marketing and Business Development at Shipman & Goodwin, to explore her long-awaited insights into the importance of earning trust and credibility internally. With nearly two decades at the firm, Jen brings a unique perspective on what it takes to earn trust in a legacy-driven law firm. From navigating leadership dynamics to championing the role of marketing at the strategic table, Jen has played a key role in reshaping how BD and marketing are perceived and prioritized. Eugene and Jennifer cover: How the role of Marketing has evolved during her 17 years at Shipman & Goodwin Jen’s approach to building internal trust and influence in a relationship-driven industry The value of having strategic thought partnerships Jen’s partnership achievements including cultural and mindset shifts How to build long-term credibility
Cross-selling remains one of the biggest growth opportunities for professional services firms, yet cultural silos, lack of trust and missed client insights mean many struggle to get it right. Join this panel of professional services marketing and BD leaders as they unpack the biggest challenges and opportunities in cross-selling today. Recorded live in London, Will Eke hosts Sadie Baron (Interim CMO, TLT), Barney O’Kelly (Head of Solutions & Product Marketing, AlixPartners), Peter Skinner (BD & Marketing Director, Wedlake Bell) and James Davidge (Head of Origination, Taylor Wessing) as they dive into the pitfalls of cross-firm collaboration, the growth opportunities within reach, and the tools and techniques shaping a culture of cross-selling. They discuss: Why culture change is essential for collaboration How trust keeps referrals moving Using data to spot opportunities and connections The role of leadership in modelling behaviour Tools that make cross-selling work in practice Why clients expect joined-up, integrated advice
The art of storytelling is becoming an increasingly vital tool for law firms to form strong client relationships through personal connections, ultimately encouraging natural collaboration to rise above competitors. Today, Alitia Faccone joins Will Eke on the CMO Series Podcast to share exactly how to incorporate successful storytelling into legal marketing. From acting school to law school to leading business development at Jackson Lewis, Alitia Faccone has built a career leveraging the power of storytelling. In this episode, we’re going to dive into how data, creativity, and a ‘professionally personal’ approach to content are helping the firm connect with clients in more meaningful ways, and what’s next as storytelling, data, and technology converge in legal marketing. Alitia and Will discuss: Her unique career path into legal marketing and business development Alitia’s expert advice and experience on the foundational role of storytelling within legal marketing Applying data insights to inform client-focused strategies The practice of creating ‘professionally personal’ attorney bios Future strategic plans involving the integration of storytelling, data and technology
Executing an effective thought leadership strategy is essential in professional services marketing, yet many firms continue to struggle. By understanding and implementing the right approaches, firms can not only cut through crowded markets but also build lasting credibility. In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charlie speaks with a former guest on the series, Phill McGowan, who has led marketing and communications at top law firms including Jenner & Block, Crowell & Moring, and Reed Smith. Now, through his consultancy, Phill McGowan Marketing, he helps firms deliver impactful, data-driven campaigns. Phill joins us today for a masterclass in building successful thought leadership campaigns, from distinguishing between flagship Capital “C” campaigns to more agile, lower-case “c” initiatives. We’ll also explore how to navigate shifting markets, secure leadership buy-in, and create content that stands out. Phill and Charlie dive into: Phill’s journey into legal marketing and his first time seeing impactful thought leadership Common mistakes versus best practice in law firm thought leadership The implications and opportunities of a shifting market on thought leadership Understanding capital ‘C’ and lower-case ‘c’ campaigns and their essential elements Advice for firms on securing buy-in and leadership support for further investment Practical tips for CMOs looking to build a sustainable thought leadership strategy
Boutique firms are continually finding new ways to stand out, tackle significant cases, and make a lasting impact. In today's episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Eugene McCormick welcomes Anne Kunkel, the Chief Marketing Officer at Redgrave. Anne joins Eugene to discuss how boutique firms consistently go above and beyond, sharing her insights on building an agile team, navigating new technologies, AI, and regulations, and successfully driving strategy through to action. Anne and Eugene explore: Anne’s background and unique career journey to Redgrave The approach Redgrave takes to position their unique style in the legal market Anne’s practical tips for balancing her day-to-day responsibilities The key qualities and talents that Anne prioritizes when building her team Key elements that are reshaping Redgrave’s brand and growth development Top priorities for navigating changes that are reshaping legal marketing Advice for CMOs aiming to make an impact in boutique firms
Fractional marketing is on the rise, enabling firms to tap into top-tier expertise without the full-time cost. In today’s episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins sits down with leading fractional marketer, Helen Cox. Helen breaks down the common mistakes that appear in marketing and BD, the role a fractional CMO plays and how firms can truly find value in leveraging fractional leadership without the full-time cost. Helen is a Marketing and Business development consultant and the founder of Helen Cox Marketing. She has successfully worked with numerous firms, helping them re-strategise their marketing and BD plans, and show internal teams how to use AI and technology to work smarter and more effectively. Helen and Charles discuss: Helen’s career journey to becoming a fractional marketer in professional services Helen’s definition of the term “Fractional” and how roles like this fit into the professional services industry When firms can get the most value from a fractional marketer The common mistakes that appear in legal marketing and business development Helen’s successful moments supporting firms and what that looks like Key advice for marketers going fractional The approaches firms can take to bringing in a fractional leader successfully
Law firms continue to struggle with getting their lawyers to cross-sell effectively, leaving significant revenue untapped. The good news is that with the right strategic shift, firms can close the gap between their professionals and cross-selling success. In this episode of the CMO Series, Yasmin Zand is joined by Threshold Advisors Managing Partner, Dr. Karen Kahn, to talk about how firms can do this effectively. Karen is a psychologist, certified coach, and the author of Daunting to Doable. In this episode, Karen breaks down how law firms can turn relationships into revenue by making cross-selling simple, authentic, and lawyer-focused. She shares the mindset shifts, behaviors, and tech tools that help CMOs and leaders move from broad strategies to personalized, practical business development that actually sticks. Karen and Yasmin dive into: Karen’s career journey in psychology and the pivotal moment she decided to work with law firms The core reasons why cross-selling is central to firms’ growth and the barriers stopping lawyers from cross-selling The shift in Business Development from macro to micro and ways firms can better support their professionals The key mindset lawyers need to adopt in order to grow in confidence and successfully cross-sell The role of technology and AI in transforming lawyers’ habits into effective cross-selling behaviors Advice for CMOs and marketing leaders wanting to close the cross-selling gap and get their lawyers cross-selling effectively
Diversity, Equity, and Inclusion has become a critical framework for organisations striving to create more supportive environments for both current and prospective employees. As the competition for talent intensifies, firms are recognising the importance of addressing gaps in representation. Today's guest on CMO Series REPRESENTS is someone well-versed in driving meaningful change and is here to discuss why building a culture of belonging matters. Olivia Backon is joined by Paul Modley, AMS’s Managing Director of Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging. Paul’s journey has been powerful and inspiring, taking him from his working-class roots in Wales to the London 2012 Olympic and Paralympic Games, and now leading the charge at AMS where he has created a global Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, and Belonging Centre of Excellence to ensure that existing and emerging talent get the support, resources and recognition they deserve. Paul and Olivia explore: The influence of Paul’s upbringing in shaping his commitment to social mobility throughout his career How AMS has advanced its DEIB initiatives in response to global pivotal moments The strategies AMS is implementing to elevate disability inclusion and neurodiversity within workplace conversations How AMS supports clients in navigating their own DEIB journeys while maintaining clarity and consistency in its internal strategy What genuine buy-in for DEIB looks like in practice Practical advice for organisations seeking to strengthen and embed a more impactful DEIB strategy
In today’s legal market, mid-size firms are proving they can punch well above their weight, and the secret often lies in bold, strategic marketing leadership. In this episode of the CMO Series Podcast, Charles Cousins speaks with Courtney Beauzile, Head of Marketing, Business Development & Communications at Robins Kaplan. After moving from an AMLaw 100 firm to an AMLaw 200 mid-size firm, Courtney has shown how the right approach can fuel growth, elevate digital presence, and transform the impact of marketing. Two years into her role, Courtney shares her playbook for building strong, diverse teams that bring creativity and innovation to every campaign. By harnessing a mix of personalities and skills, she demonstrates how mid-size firms can develop strategies that not only compete with, but often outpace, the largest players. Charles and Courtney dive into: Courtney’s journey to Robins Kaplan How Courtney has tailored her approaches and leadership style in her current role The early success Courtney and her team achieved Key qualities and structures which helped her team support the firms goals The impact of having a diverse team Future projects that will driving the firm in the legal landscape Advice for marketing, BD and communication leaders wanting to have a big impact at a midsize firm
In a time when business leaders are navigating heightened political division, evolving workplace expectations, and the urgent call for inclusivity, understanding how to lead with purpose has never been more critical. On this episode of CMO Series REPRESENTS, Yasmin Zand is joined by Gina Rubel, CEO and General Counsel at Furia Rubel Communications. Their conversation explores the deep commitment to advocacy, DEI, and ethical relationship-building that has shaped Gina’s leadership and the culture at Furia Rubel. Together, they delve into the forces behind Gina’s passion, including her work with the Rule of Law Coalition, and examine how leaders can create truly safe and inclusive spaces in today’s legal industry. Gina and Yasmin dive into: The steps CMOs and firm leaders must take to communicate effectively, internally and externally, amid political polarization The story behind the Rule of Law Coalition and its significance in today’s climate Practical advice for legal marketers striving to lead with authenticity and purpose
AI is transforming the legal industry, yet many firms are missing a trick. While policies and strategies are taking shape, marketing and business development are too often left out of the conversation. In this episode, Charles Cousins speaks with Guy Alvarez, lawyer-turned-entrepreneur and founder of InnovAItion Partners, on why marketing and BD leaders need a seat at the AI table, and how their involvement can drive innovation, meet client expectations, and give firms a competitive edge. Guy and Charles cover: Guy’s journey into legal marketing and the work he has done with Good2bSocial The pivot towards AI and the turning point for this Key insights from Guy's recent survey on AI adoption in legal marketing and BD The current position of the legal field in adopting AI into marketing and BD The role legal marketers should be playing when it comes to AI strategy. The steps firms should be taking to move in the right direction in adopting AI into marketing and BD Advice for team leaders or individuals navigating the space of AI adoption and how they can set themselves up for success