People Who Read People: A Behavior and Psychology Podcast

You’ve probably heard of neuro-linguistic programming (NLP). It’s a popular thing. It’s the foundation for the work of popular life/business coach Tony Robbins, and there are many other popular trainers and “gurus” who have used NLP ideas as the basis for their work. The con artist Chase Hughes, whose lies and unethical behaviors I’ve examined on this podcast, is one such false guru whose origins are in NLP. This is a reshare of an episode from Chris Shelton’s “Speaking of Cults” podcast, which you can find on YouTube. We talk about: the history and origins of NLP and the ideas it contains; the good and the bad in NLP; my own experiences working for 6 months in the NLP industry; how people like Chase Hughes and other obvious charlatans succeed at gaining popularity (e.g., Chase Hughes being promoted by Joe Rogan and Dr. Phil); how Joe Rogan's and Chase Hughes' popularity relate to political polarization; and more.  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Is it possible that internet communication, by speeding up and distorting our interactions, is agitating us and deranging us? Is it possible that by putting human interactions “on speed,” the internet amplifies some of the darker aspects of our social psychology? Are we being driven crazy by this technology? If the internet is deranging and dividing us, what are the psychological processes by which it does that? Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A major barrier to reducing toxic polarization is that so many of us—especially those who are highly politically involved—see our current toxic conflict as clearly the other side’s fault. People in both groups focus on the grievances that alarm them most but often struggle to understand what bothers their adversaries. From the outside, our opponents’ complaints can look minor, silly, or misinformed compared to our concerns, which we (naturally) see as legitimate and based in reality. The more we subscribe to these narratives, the more we risk becoming arrogant, convinced that “you’d have to be an idiot” not to see which group is worse and more at fault for our conflict and division. All this serves to fan the flames of toxic polarization. This episode looks at how both political groups build their polarized, angry narratives where "it's all the other side's fault." This is a reading of a piece published on The Liberal Patriot: https://www.liberalpatriot.com/p/its-all-the-other-sides-fault Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if your sense of existence, your self-awareness, isn’t unique at all—but the very same “I” that exists in everyone, everywhere? What if you and I—and everyone—are essentially the same person? In this episode, I talk with Joe Kern, author of “The Odds of You Existing,” about Open Individualism: the radical view that there is only a single subject of consciousness, which is shared by all aware beings. Put another way: instead of seeing your odds of existing—your odds of being self-aware at this moment—as being extremely low, it’s a view of your existence as inevitable, because wherever there is a conscious being, your awareness must be present. Joe and I explore the logic of this idea, how it challenges our assumptions about identity and existence, and what it implies about death. Other topics discussed: religion, the idea of souls, free will, and the multiverse. Joe’s site is at applebutterdreams.wordpress.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The documentary "Bad Vegan" was about Sarma Melngailis’s nightmarish journey from successful New York City restaurant owner to Rikers inmate jailed for stealing millions. How did this happen? Sarma was the victim of a narcissistic con man named Anthony Strangis, who manipulated her into believing (or semi-believing) a number of wild, delusional ideas (like that he might be a non-human being with immense, other-worldly powers). He used this strange hold over her to persuade her to give him large amounts of money (much of which he blew at casinos). I talk to Sarma about her experiences. We talk about: what led to her being so emotionally vulnerable that someone like Strangis could manipulate her; the factors that can lead someone to believe things that most people see as clearly ridiculous lies; why she dislikes the “Bad Vegan” documentary maker for his editing choices; the huge emotional challenge of trying to rebuild and stay positive after such nightmarish, debilitating events; her new book "The Girl With the Duck Tattoo." Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does nostalgia do to our minds — and our wallets? In this talk with Jannine Lasaleta, we talk about her research into the surprising psychological and emotional effects of nostalgia. Why do people become more generous and loose with money when they’re feeling nostalgic? How are companies — and even political campaigns — harnessing nostalgia to influence us? What’s the link between our craving for “authentic” experiences, like sourdough baking or retro products, and our longing for meaning?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In the summer of 2024, I went on a five-day solo retreat in the mountains of New Mexico. It was the first time I’d ever really committed to meditation, and to my surprise it turned out to be a deeply meaningful and lasting experience. In this episode, I talk about what led me to try it, what those days of fasting, solitude, and meditation were actually like, and the unexpected effects I noticed afterward in my everyday life. I also share some of the doubts and anxieties I carried into the experience, why meditation had always felt out of reach for me, and why this retreat nevertheless managed to shift something fundamental in how I relate to myself and to stress. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What does the word “psychopath” really mean—and how often are we getting it wrong? Can someone have some psychopathic traits and still be empathetic? How often are we embracing simplistic ideas of what the terms psychopath and sociopath mean? Are those online “Are you a psychopath?” quizzes harmless fun, or could they actually shape how we see ourselves? And what about all the CEOs, politicians, and anti-heroes people quickly label as psychopaths—are there really so many psychopaths around us, or are people often just seeing what they want to see? Can having a highly competitive job (like a lawyer) make you act in more psychopath-associated ways? I talk with Dr. Nadja Heym, a researcher who specializes in psychopathy and other so-called “dark” personality traits. We explore the myths, the science, and the nuance: from the difference between traits and full-blown disorders, to the surprising ways environment and upbringing can shape these behaviors, to what her research says about the so-called “dark empath.” Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk with sports psychology and behavior researcher Philip Furley about how athletes' body language communicates far more than we realize — and how it can affect teammates, opponents, judges, and even the outcome of the game itself. Other topics discussed: celebratory behaviors and how that can influence perceptions of people, including judges; behaviors and strategies of penalty kickers and goalkeepers in soccer; some specific behaviors from recent World Cup games; challenges in finding general behavioral patterns in sports; athletes' anxiety; and ways people might make practical use of his research findings. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk to psychologist Richard Bentall about psychosis, schizophrenia, and the psychological roots of mental illness. Bentall is the author of the well known book "Madness Explained." We explore how symptoms like hallucinations and delusions can often be traced to trauma, stress, and isolation—and how the label of “schizophrenia” may obscure more than it explains. We also discuss the fine line between delusions and widely shared beliefs, how social connections help shape our sense of reality, and why understanding madness as a human response—not just a brain disease—can reduce stigma. I also share some of my own struggles with mental health. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Psychologist Anne Wilson studies how we construct our identities over time—how we remember the past, imagine the future, and tell ourselves stories that shape who we believe we are. In this episode, we explore why our memories are often less reliable than we think, and how that inaccuracy might actually be a feature, not a bug. Anne shares insights from her work on temporal self-appraisal theory, including surprising research showing how people often rewrite their pasts to make it seem like they're always improving. We also talk about how memory malleability impacts mental health, relationships, and political polarization. Why do people remember the same childhood in radically different ways? Why do people recall their past selves as worse than they actually were?  Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

What if we’ve been thinking about narcissism all wrong — and some forms of it are not only normal, but healthy? Why do we so often confuse genuine confidence or ambition with something pathological? Could your most “humble” or “selfless” friend actually be showing a hidden form of narcissism? And how might political polarization be pushing all of us to act a little more narcissistic than we’d like to admit? I talk with Craig Malkin, author of the book "Rethinking Narcissism: The Secret to Recognizing and Coping with Narcissists," in which he explains that narcissism is a spectrum. It’s healthy and normal to have some positive and grandiose illusions about your place in the world, as long as those illusions don’t become pathologically unhealthy and toxic. Topics discussed: the spectrum of narcissism, ranging from more normal forms of narcissism to pathological, malignant, dangerous forms; common misconceptions about narcissism; existential and psychological factors that can lead to more malignantly narcissistic traits and behaviors; the phenomenon of people overzealously labeling others narcissists; the Narcissistic Personality Inventory (the basis of many people’s understanding of narcissism) and how it works. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk to Barry Prizant, author of the popular book "Uniquely Human: A Different Way of Seeing Autism," about the often misunderstood world of autism. We explore the idea that many so-called “autistic behaviors” are actually meaningful responses to stress, overwhelm, or attempts to communicate—and that looking for the “deep why” behind people's behavior is essential. We talk about sensory sensitivity and the complexities of the autism label. Barry shares stories from his decades of work, including surprising examples of how kids can use quotes from TV/movies to express their needs and fears. We also discuss empathy, the concept of autism as a different cultural style of communication, and how society’s need for people to “act normal” can cause harm. Even if you don’t know much about autism, you'll like this episode if you're interested in behavior, psychology, or communication.  Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Why do we feel so unsettled and agitated when the world doesn’t make sense? In this episode, I talk with psychologist Steven Heine about his Meaning Maintenance Model — a theory that explains how we react when our sense of meaning is threatened. We explore how disruptions to our mental frameworks can lead us to double down on our beliefs, seek comfort in nostalgia, or shift our focus to other sources of meaning. We discuss what this tells us about political polarization, existential crises, and even how psychedelics and surreal art can shake up (and sometimes heal) our sense of reality. If you’ve ever wondered why ambiguity and uncertainty can feel so deeply uncomfortable—and what we might do to avoid it—this episode is for you. Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Can blockchain tech reinvent journalism—and reduce toxic political polarization in the process? In this episode, Zachary Elwood talks with Don Templeman, founder of Aemula, a radically new kind of news platform. Inspired by the decentralization and transparency of cryptocurrency and other blockchain-based technologies, Aemula aims to create a trustless, bias-resistant newsroom of the future—one where algorithms are public, incentives reward nuance, and toxic polarization is nudged downward by design. Whether you're a blockchain skeptic or a media reform enthusiast, this is a conversation about what's broken in journalism—and one bold idea for fixing it. Learn more at aemula.com. Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Maybe you’ve heard that you can get clues about whether someone is lying by what direction they look when they talk. The most common form of this idea is that if someone is looking up and to their left, they’re more likely to be accessing real visual memories (associated with truth), and if they’re looking up and to their right, they’re more likely to be constructing visual images (associated with lies). But there is no basis for this; in fact, many studies have found evidence against that claim. This idea and other more broad ideas about eye movement clues were popularized by NLP (Neuro-Linguistic Programming), a school of thought whose core ideas have been debunked time and time again. In this episode, I talk to Tim Levine, a respected deception detection researcher. We talk about: the eye direction idea; the huge amount of bullshit in the pop behavior analysis space (e.g., shows like the Behavior Panel); reasons why the spreaders of this bullshit are so popular and successful; what the science says about using behavior to detect deception; why it’s so difficult to use behavior to detect deception; the idea that you need to establish “baselines” for people to aid you in reading them; how behavioral patterns in games/sports can differ from more real-world non-game scenarios; confirmation bias in the behavior analysis space, and how even smart researchers can be unreasonably biased in favor of their own ideas; Paul Ekman’s work; and more.  Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Many Americans think Trump is harming democracy; they see him as acting undemocratically in various ways. At the same time, Republicans and Trump supporters can view Democrats/liberals as themselves acting in highly undemocratic ways: as embracing various beliefs and actions that violate the spirit of democracy. I talk to Elizabeth Doll, who has worked in the political depolarization/bridge-building space for several years; she is currently the Director of Braver Politics for the organization Braver Angels. She is also someone who has been frustrated with various stances of liberal “defenders of democracy” that she sees as undemocratic and hypocritical. Topics discussed include: why anti-Trump people should want to understand these criticisms; various Republican-side views that liberals have behaved “undemocratically,” the debate over the electoral college; the debate over adding Supreme Court justices (stacking the court); the ambiguity in the word “democracy” and how that ambiguity leads to many things being called “undemocratic,"; why trying to understand each others' concerns is important for reducing toxicity, and more. Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

A talk about hypnosis and mind control with Martin S. Taylor, a well known British hypnotist (hypnotism.co.uk). Martin is known for his stage hypnosis act but also for educating people about hypnosis and removing the illusions and mystique surrounding it. There are some people who make astounding claims that they can control and manipulate people using hypnosis. Some even claim they can get people to do things against their will and their ethics. Some of these people claim they can do this quickly, within minutes, and that they can teach you to do the same. There are clearly some impressive things you can do with hypnosis (as Martin will attest) — but there are also clearly many unethical and deceptive people in the NLP/hypnosis/influence space who exaggerate what you can do with it. In this talk, Martin and I try to separate fact from fiction — reality from bullshit. Topics discussed include: How did Martin get into hypnosis? What’s going on in a stage hypnosis act? What psychological factors lead to people acting in unusual and extreme ways in those settings? Is there such a thing as a hypnotic “trance”? Is it a special state? Martin’s thoughts on hypnosis used for therapy and self-help. MK Ultra and other government programs related to mind control and brainwashing. The importance of being skeptical about grand claims about hypnosis and mind control.  Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

In March of 2024, the newsman and sports commentator Keith Olbermann tweeted that the “Supreme Court had betrayed democracy” and called for it to be “dissolved.” This was the second time he’d called for the Supreme Court to be dissolved: he did that also in 2022. This is a review of some of Olbermann’s more unreasonable and incendiary behavior over the last twenty years, with a focus on his political rage and how that relates to America’s toxic polarization problem. Because clearly there are many people around us, like Olbermann, with extreme contempt toward their political opponents, and a lot of biased, unreasonably certain takes about all sorts of events and happenings. What might we learn from Olbermann's behavior? Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I talk to Dr. Jess Snitko, who has researched online dating and other online communication, about the signals and messages we send, intentionally and unintentionally, with dating app profiles and pictures. Jess earned her Ph.D. in Media, Technology, and Society from Purdue University in 2020. Topics discussed: Factors in pictures and profiles that cause people to swipe right or swipe left; the so-called “duck-face” expression some girls make in photos; men’s shirtless photos; men who post pictures of holding a fish or posing with dead animals; bathroom mirror selfies; pictures of partying and drinking; group photos and problems with those; cropped photos where an ex is being removed from the picture; how first impressions can be prone to errors; and more. Learn more about the show and get transcripts at⁠ ⁠behavior-podcast.com⁠⁠.    Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices