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Interbeing is a podcast by MSB exploring what it means to lead, coach, and live in a deeply interconnected world. Hosted by Naomi Ward and Matt Hall, the show brings together educators, coaches, and thought leaders to reflect on the questions shaping international schools and beyond.
In this new season we return to the heart of our work: coaching as a way of being. Together we explore how presence, curiosity, and care can shift not just our conversations, but our cultures. Inspired by Thich Nhat Hanh’s teaching on “interbeing,” we recognise that nothing exists in isolation — every choice, every relationship, every pause matters.
Expect honest dialogue, stories from the field, and a commitment to learning in public. Not as answers, but as invitations to think differently about leadership, community, and the future of education.
You can find out more about Futures-Focused Leadership Coaching for International Schools and MSB at www.makingstuffbetter.com
45 Episodes
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In this episode of Interbeing we dive into a profound conversation with Hayley Wilson, Deputy Head of the Senior School at Kellett School in Hong Kong. We explore the role of coaching in fostering a sense of community and humanity within schools, emphasizing values of care, curiosity, and meaningful relationships. Hayley shares her personal and professional journey toward adopting a purpose-driven and coaching-focused ethos, highlighting the significant cultural shifts at Kellett School towar...
In this episode Matt and Naomi discuss the profound impact of coaching on school culture with their guest, Chris Broman from ICS Madrid. They explore themes of interconnectedness, the transformative power of coaching, and the importance of maintaining humanity in education. Chris shares his experiences and insights from introducing coaching into his school, highlighting the challenges and successes of this journey. The conversation delves into the organic growth of coaching practices, the imp...
In this episode we delve into the philosophy and practice of coaching, with Nobantu Mpotulo, a coach from Pretoria, South Africa, who introduces listeners to the concept of Ubuntu and the importance of seeing the interconnectedness in all human relationships. The conversation explores how embracing these principles can transform coaching practices and personal development, encouraging a collective approach to growth, presence, and empathy. The episode underscores the necessity of moving beyon...
In this episode, the conversation centers on coaching within educational environments, emphasizing how coaching techniques align with and support both personal growth and community development. Our guest, Mai Mahmoud, shares her journey from initial skepticism to embracing coaching as a way of life, deeply integrated with her Islamic faith. The discussion explores the impact of cultural and linguistic context on the adoption of coaching practices and highlights the importance of listening, em...
Diving into the core of coaching, the episode explores its values and impact on individuals and organisations, particularly schools. Our guest, Rob Kemp, shares insights on measuring the impact of coaching, the role of authenticity, and the emerging relationship between AI and coaching. The conversation also touches on the readiness of organisations for coaching and the broader implications of these practices on human connectedness and organizational culture. 00:00 Welcome to Interbeing: A Ne...
In the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now rebranded as 'Interbeing', the focus returns to coaching and its values in supporting both self-reflection and cultivating generative relationships within educational environments. The term 'inter being,' coined by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh, frames this season’s exploration of interconnectedness. Hosts Matt and Naomi introduce guest Emma Sheppard, a passionate advocate for family-friendly schools, to discuss the impact of coaching on persona...
Welcome to the fourth series of the MSB podcast, now titled Interbeing. This season focuses on how coaching values can support school communities by encouraging inward reflection and outward, generative relationships. Inspired by Zen Master Thich Nhat Hanh’s concept of 'inter-being', this series explores the interconnectedness of all things. We engage in conversations with coaches and educators, dissecting where coaching succeeds and where it doesn't. This episode, a bonus beginning t...
Many teachers want to make changes, but feel confined by the requirements of curricula and assessment. In this episode, our round table guests discuss their goals for the future of assessment, and how you can effect change even within the current system. Tia Court-Smith (she/her) - A love of learning and facilitating learning for all ages brought me to teaching later than many. Recipient of the Ted Wragg Award during my PGCE I was trusted to lead a team in a wonderful school during my (then) ...
What are the structures that restrict change in education? How do we ensure that our students leave our schools with qualifications that reflect the breadth of their knowledge and skill? Our guest in this episode, Angeline Aow, has a wealth of experience in rethinking pedagogy and curriculum. She challenges our assumptions about what assessment can do and how teachers can use their own critical thinking skills to deliver meaningful educational experiences. Angeline Aow is an internati...
Saving the planet can seem a daunting and overwhelming task, so how do we communicate the scale of the problem with hope and excitement in our schools? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of ecology and nature with a futures focus. Kenny Peavey, originally from Georgia, USA, has over 23 years of experience teaching across Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore, and Indonesia. Currently, he teaches Science, Math, and Regeneration in a dynamic outdoor setting at Green ...
With the effects of climate change all around us, discussion of the future must involve ecological considerations, but our guest in this episode invites us to think beyond environmental concerns, and to treat education itself as ecology. In this discussion with Noan Fesnoux, we touch on reframing our expectations of consumption and our relationship with our environment, schools as metacognitive hubs, and the role international schools can play in leading change. Noan Fesnoux is currently Cr...
How can we work with our students to understand their political and cultural identities in a world of constant change? In this episode, we’re joined by three educators to discuss the domain of political economy, identity, privilege and culture with a futures focus. Loretta Smith is an educator with more than 20 years of experience in international schools. She grew up between cultures, moving several times during her childhood. She is also the mother of two multi-racial, Cross Culture Kids. H...
Many international schools are working hard on confronting issues of inequality, justice and global politics. Involving the wider school community can be challenging without a guide or a framework to follow. Our guest in this episode, Homa Tavanger, poses some thoughtful questions to start the conversation. In this wide-ranging discussion, we talk about student activism in the wake of the murder of George Floyd, thinking about the future in a liminal age, and confronting colonial heritage.&nb...
How are the opportunities and challenges that come with the future of technology being felt in schools? This episode, we’re joined by three educators, Rachael Thrash, Yasmine Aslam-Hashmi and Rory Douglas, to discuss futures focussed technology in education. Rachael Thrash is the CEO and Co-Founder of Belong Hub, student leadership kits and services that guide adults and students to collaboratively create a belonging-centered school culture. Rachael is a school leader and master teacher...
For many, contemplation of the technological domain, the massive swift growth of generative AI, for example, comes with fear and trepidation. So we’re delighted to be joined today by Tricia Friedman, who brings calm, inspiration and fun to the challenge of imagining future technologies. In this conversation we talk about not just generative AI, but also cross species communication, mobile phone bans in schools, and how to involve everyone in the conversation about technological change. Tric...
For our introduction to season 3, we’re delighted to be joined by Patrick Alexander from Oxford Brookes University. Over the summer we’ve been working with Patrick to research and create a new collaborative paper, Futures-Focused Leadership for International Schools. We intend this to be a provocation to leaders, to think differently about the future of education and their role in the creation of this future. Today we’ll be talking through the key concepts and tools within the paper, and pos...
Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Dee Lanier, Lead Learning Designer at Lanier Learning and Education Coach for Samsung Education. Award winning TEDX speaker and author of Demarginalising Design, Dee Lanier is dedicated to co-designing equitable learning experiences for school leaders, staff, and students, and helping schools to implement technology in meaningful ways. They discuss design thinking as a mindset...
Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by Nicholas Janni, renowned speaker, coach, and co-founder / programme director at Matrix Development. Nicholas is also the author of Business Book of the Year 2023 Leader as Healer, a new paradigm for 21st Century leadership - an unflinching call for leaders to leave the old paradigm and move towards a new mode of "leader as healers". They discuss the role of reverence, intui...
Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by experienced educator and Headmistress of St. Mary’s School in Cambridge, Charlotte Avery, as well as friends and colleagues Kate Latham, Director of Teaching and Learning, and Amina. They discuss the ideals at the heart of Mary Ward schools, the oft-overlooked importance of courage, joy, and optimism, and peacebuilding not as the absence of conflict but as an activ...
Welcome to the Principled podcast. In this episode, Matt Hall and Naomi Ward of Making Stuff Better are joined by author, consultant, and founder of Coachtech Collective, Sam Isaacson. They discuss the crucial attributes great leaders have and how these impact the organisations they lead, the importance of emotional intelligence and embracing our vulnerabilities, and how well-defined structures and policies can safeguard against potential issues and protect organisational health. ------...
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