BONUS: Organizations as Ecosystems — Understanding Complexity, Innovation, and the Three-Body Problem at Work In this fascinating conversation about complex adaptive systems, Simon Holzapfel helps us understand why traditional planning and control methods fail in knowledge work — and what we can do instead. Understanding Ecosystems vs. Systems "Complex adaptive systems are complex in nature and adaptive in that they evolve over time. That's different from a static system." — Simon Holzapfel Simon introduces the crucial distinction between mechanical systems and ecosystems. While mechanical systems are predictable and static, ecosystems — like teams and organizations — are complex, adaptive, and constantly evolving. The key difference lies in the interactions among team members, which create emergent properties that cannot be predicted by analyzing individuals separately. Managers often fall into the trap of focusing on individuals rather than the interactions between them, missing where the real magic happens. This is why understanding your organization as an ecosystem, not a machine, fundamentally changes how you lead. In this segment, we refer to the Stella systems modeling application. The Journey from Planning to Emergence "I used to come into class with a lesson plan — doop, doop, doop, minute by minute agenda. And then what I realized is that I would just completely squash those questions that would often emerge from the class." — Simon Holzapfel Simon shares his transformation from rigid classroom planning to embracing emergence. As a history and economics teacher for 10 years, he learned that over-planning kills the spontaneous insights that make learning powerful. The same principle applies to leadership: planning is essential, but over-planning wastes time and prevents novelty from emerging. The key is separating strategic planning (the "where" and "why") from tactical execution (the "how"), letting teams make local decisions while leaders focus on alignment with the bigger picture. "Innovation Arrives Stochastically" "Simply by noticing the locations where you've had your best ideas, we notice the stochasticness of arrival. Might be the shower, might be on a bike ride, might be sitting in traffic, might be at your desk — but often not." — Simon Holzapfel Simon unpacks the concept of stochastic emergence — the idea that innovation cannot be scheduled or predicted in advance. Stochastic means something is predictable over large datasets but not in any given moment. You know you'll have ideas if you give yourself time and space, but you can't predict when or where they'll arrive. This has profound implications for managers who try to control when and how innovation happens. Knowledge work is about creating things that haven't existed before, so emergence is what we rely on. Try to squash it with too much control, and it simply won't happen. In this segment, we refer to the Systems Innovation YouTube channel. The Three-Body Problem: A Metaphor for Teams "When you have three nonlinear functions working at the same time within a system, you have almost no ability to predict its future state beyond just some of the shortest time series data." — Simon Holzapfel Simon uses the three-body problem from physics as a powerful metaphor for organizational complexity. In physics, when you have three bodies (like planets) influencing each other, prediction becomes nearly impossible. The same is true in business — think of R&D, manufacturing, and sales as three interacting forces. The lesson: don't think you can master this complexity. Work with it. Understand it's a system. Most variability comes from the system itself, not from any individual person. This allows us to depersonalize problems — people aren't good or bad, systems can be improved. When teams understand this, they can relax and stop treating every unpredictable moment as an emergency. Coaching Leaders to Embrace Uncertainty "I'll start by trying to read their comfort level. I'll ask about their favorite teachers, their most hated teachers, and I'll really try to bring them back to moments in time that were pivotal in their own development." — Simon Holzapfel How do you help analytical, control-oriented leaders embrace complexity and emergence? Simon's approach is to build rapport first, then gently introduce concepts based on each leader's background. For technical people who prefer math, he'll discuss narrow tail distributions and fat tails. For humanities-oriented leaders, he uses narrative and storytelling. The goal is to get leaders to open up to possibilities without feeling diminished. He might suggest small experiments: "Hold your tongue once in a meeting" or "Ask questions instead of making statements." These incremental changes help managers realize they don't have to be superhuman problem-solvers who control everything. Giving the Board a Number: The Paradox of Prediction "Managers say we want scientific management, but they don't actually want that. They want predictive management." — Simon Holzapfel Simon addresses one of the biggest tensions in agile adoption: leaders who say "I just need to give the board a number" while also wanting innovation and adaptability. The paradox is clear — you cannot simultaneously be open to innovation and emergent possibilities while executing a predetermined plan with perfect accuracy. This is an artifact of management literature that promoted the "philosopher king" manager who knows everything. But markets are too movable, consumer tastes vary too much, and knowledge work is too complex for any single person to control. The burnout we see in leaders often comes from trying to achieve an impossible standard. In this segment, we refer to the episodes with David Marquet. Resources for Understanding Complexity "Eric Beinhocker's book called 'The Origin of Wealth' is wonderful. It's a very approachable and well-researched piece that shows where we've been and where we're going in this area." — Simon Holzapfel Simon recommends two key resources for anyone wanting to understand complexity and ecosystems. First, Eric Beinhocker's "The Origin of Wealth" explains how we developed flawed economic assumptions based on 19th-century Newtonian physics, and why we need to evolve our understanding. Second, the Systems Innovation YouTube channel offers brilliant short videos perfect for curious, open-minded managers. Simon suggests a practical approach: have someone on your team watch a video and share what they learned. This creates shared language around complexity and makes the concepts less personal and less threatening. The Path Forward: Systems Over Individuals "As a manager, our goal is to constantly evaluate the performance of the system, not the people. We can always put better systems in place. We can always improve existing systems. But you can't tell people what to do — it's not possible." — Simon Holzapfel The conversation concludes with a powerful insight from Deming's work: about 95% of a system's productivity is linked to the system itself, not individual performance. This reframes the manager's role entirely. Instead of trying to control people, focus on improving systems. Instead of treating burnout as individual failure, see it as information that something in the system isn't working. Organizations are ever-changing ecosystems with dynamic properties that can only be observed, never fully predicted. This requires a completely different way of thinking about management — one that embraces uncertainty, values emergence, and trusts teams to figure things out within clear strategic boundaries. Recommended Resources As recommended resources for further reading, Simon suggests: The Origin of Wealth, by Eric Beinhocker The Systems Innovation YouTube channel About Simon Holzapfel Simon Holzapfel is an educator, coach, and learning innovator who helps teams work with greater clarity, speed, and purpose. He specializes in separating strategy from tactics, enabling short-cycle decision-making and higher-value workflows. Simon has spent his career coaching individuals and teams to achieve performance with deeper meaning and joy. Simon is also the author of the Equonomist newsletter on Substack, where he explores the intersection of economics, equality, and equanimity in the workplace. You can link with Simon Holzapfel on LinkedIn.
Darryl Wright: The PONO—Product Owners in Name Only and How They Destroy Teams Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. The Great Product Owner: Collaborative, Present, and Clear in Vision "She was collaborative, and that meant that she was present—the opposite of the MIA product owner. She came, and she sat with the team, and she worked with them side by side. Even when she was working on something different, she'd be there, she'd be available." - Darryl Wright Darryl shares an unusual story about one of the best Product Owners he's ever encountered—someone who had never even heard of Agile before taking the role. Working for a large consulting company with 170,000 staff worldwide, they faced a difficult project that nobody wanted to do. Darryl suggested running it as an Agile project, but the entire team had zero Agile experience. The only person who'd heard of Agile was a new graduate who'd studied it for one week at university—he became the Scrum Master. The executive sponsor, with her business acumen and stakeholder management skills, became the Product Owner despite having no idea what that meant. The results were extraordinary: an 18-month project completed in just over 7 months, and when asked about the experience, the team's highest feedback was how much fun they had working on what was supposed to be an awful, difficult project. Darryl attributes this success to mindset—the team was open and willing to try something new. The Product Owner brought critical skills to the role even without technical Agile knowledge: She was collaborative and present, sitting with the team and remaining available. She was decisive, making prioritization calls clearly so nobody was ever confused about priorities. She had excellent communication skills, articulating the vision with clarity that inspired the team. Her stakeholder management capabilities kept external pressures managed appropriately. And her business acumen meant she instantly understood conversations about value, time to market, and customer impact. Without formal training, she became an amazing Product Owner simply by being open, willing, and committed. As Darryl reflects, going from never having heard of the role to being an inspiring Product Owner in 7 months was incredible—one of the most successful projects and teams he's ever worked with. Self-reflection Question: If you had to choose between a Product Owner with deep Agile certification and no business skills, or one with strong business acumen and willingness to learn—which would serve your team better? The Bad Product Owner: The PONO—Product Owner in Name Only "The team never saw the PO until the showcase. And so, the team would come along with work that they deemed was finished, and the product owner had not seen it before because he wasn't around. So he would be seeing it for the first time in the showcase, and he would then accept or reject the work in the showcase, in front of other stakeholders." - Darryl Wright The most destructive anti-pattern Darryl has witnessed was the MIA—Missing in Action—Product Owner, someone who was a Product Owner in Name Only (PONO). This senior business person was too busy to spend time with the team, only appearing at the sprint showcase. The damage this created was systematic and crushing. The team would build work without Product Owner engagement, then present it in the showcase looking to be proud of their accomplishment. The PO, seeing it for the first time, would accept or reject the work in front of stakeholders. When he rejected it, the team was crushed, deflated, demoralized, and made to look like fools in front of senior leaders—essentially thrown under the bus. This pattern violates multiple principles of Agile teamwork. First, there's no feedback loop during the sprint, so the team works blind, hoping they're building the right thing. Second, the showcase becomes a validation ceremony rather than a collaborative feedback session, creating a dynamic of subservience rather than curiosity. The team seeks approval instead of engaging as explorers discovering what delivers customer value together. Third, the PO positions themselves as judge rather than coach—extracting themselves from responsibility for what's delivered while placing all blame on the team. As Deming's quote reminds us, "A leader is a coach, not a judge." When the PO takes the judge role, they're betraying fundamental Agile values. The responsibility for what the team delivers belongs strictly to the Product Owner; the team owns how it's delivered. When Darryl encounters this situation as a Scrum Master, he lobbies intensely with the PO: "Even if you can't spare any other time for the entire sprint, give us just one hour the night before the showcase." That single hour lets the team preview what they'll present, getting early yes/no decisions so they never face public rejection. The basic building block of any Agile or Scrum way of working is an empowered team—and this anti-pattern strips all empowerment away. Self-reflection Question: Does your Product Owner show up as a coach who's building something together with the team, or as a judge who pronounces verdicts? How does that dynamic shape what your team is willing to try? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.
Darryl Wright: The Retrospective Formats That Actually Generate Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "My success is, how much have I helped the team achieve what they want? If what they want is to uplift quality, or to reduce their time to market, well then, my success is helping them achieve that." - Darryl Wright When Darryl enters a new organization, he's often told his success will be measured by percentage of Agile adoption or team maturity assessment scores. His response is direct: those are vanity metrics that show something for its own sake, not real success. True success requires multiple measures, carefully balanced to prevent gaming and to capture both the human and business dimensions of work. Darryl advocates balancing quantitative metrics like lead time and flow efficiency with qualitative measures like employee happiness and team self-assessment of productivity. He balances business outcomes like customer satisfaction and revenue with humanity metrics that track the team's journey toward high performance. Most importantly, Darryl believes his success metrics should be co-created with the team. If he's there to help the team, then success must be defined by how much he's helped them achieve what they want—not what he wants. When stakeholders fixate on output metrics like "more story points," Darryl uses a coaching approach to shift the conversation toward outcomes and value. "Would you be happy if your team checked off more boxes, but your customers were less happy?" he asks. This opens space for exploring what they really want to achieve and why it matters. The key is translating outputs into impacts, helping people articulate the business value or customer experience improvement they're actually seeking. As detailed in Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart, comprehensive dashboards can track value across multiple domains simultaneously—balancing speed with quality, business success with humanity, quantitative data with qualitative experience. When done well, Agile teams can be highly productive, highly successful, and have high morale at the same time. We don't have to sacrifice one for the other—we can have both. Self-reflection Question: If your team could only track two metrics for the next sprint, what would they choose? What would you choose? And more importantly, whose choice should drive the selection? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: The 4 L's and Three Little Pigs Darryl offers two favorites, tailored to different contexts. For learning environments, he loves the 4 L's retrospective: Liked, Learned, Lacked, and Longed For. This format creates space for teams to reflect on their learning journey, surfacing insights about what worked, what was missing, and what they aspire to moving forward. For operational environments, he recommends the Three Little Pigs retrospective, which brilliantly surfaces team strengths and weaknesses through a playful metaphor. The House of Straw represents things the team is weak at—nothing stands up, everything falls over. The House of Sticks is things they've put structure around, but it doesn't really work. The House of Bricks represents what they're solid on, what they can count on every time. Then comes the most important part: identifying the Big Bad Wolf—the scary thing, the elephant in the room that nobody wants to talk about but everyone knows is there. This format creates psychological safety to discuss the undiscussable. Darryl emphasizes two critical success factors for retrospectives: First, vary your formats. Teams that hear the same questions sprint after sprint will disengage, asking "why are you asking me again?" Different questions provide different lenses, generating fresh insights. Second, ensure actions come out of every retro. Nothing kills engagement faster than suggestions disappearing into the void. When people see their ideas lead to real changes, they'll eagerly return to the next retrospective. And don't forget to know your team—if they're sports fans, use sports retros; if they're scientists, use space exploration themes. Just don't make the mistake of running a "sailboat retro" with retiring mainframe engineers who'll ask if you think they're kindergarten children. For more retrospective formats, check out Retromat. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.
Darryl Wright: Why AI Adoption Will Fail Just Like Agile Did—Unless We Change Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "People are looking to AI to solve their problems, and they're doing it in the same way that they previously looked to Agile to solve their problems for them. The problem with that is, of course, that Agile doesn't solve problems for you. What it does is it shines a light on where your problems are." - Darryl Wright The world has gone AI crazy, and Darryl sees history repeating itself in troubling ways. Organizations are rushing to adopt AI with the same magical thinking they once applied to Agile—believing that simply implementing the tool will solve their fundamental problems. But just as Agile reveals problems rather than solving them, AI will do the same. Worse, AI threatens to accelerate existing problems: if you have too many things moving at once, AI won't fix that, it will amplify the chaos. If you automate a bad process, you've simply locked in badness at higher speed. As Darryl points out, when organizations don't understand that AI requires them to still do the hard work of problem-solving, they're setting themselves up for disillusionment, and in five or twenty years, we'll hear "AI is dead" just like we now hear "Agile is dead." The challenge for Scrum Masters and Agile coaches is profound: how do you help people with something they don't know they need? The answer lies in returning to first principles. Before adopting any tool—whether Agile or AI—organizations must clearly define the problem they're trying to solve. As Einstein reportedly said, "If I had an hour to solve a problem, I'd spend 55 minutes thinking about the problem and 5 minutes thinking about solutions." Value stream mapping becomes essential, allowing teams to visualize where humans and AI agents should operate, with clear handovers and explicit policies. The cognitive load on software teams will increase dramatically as AI generates more code, more options, and more complexity. Without clear thinking about problems and deliberate design of systems, AI adoption will follow the same disappointing trajectory as many Agile adoptions—lots of activity, little improvement, and eventually, blame directed at the tool rather than the system. Self-reflection Question: Are you adopting AI to solve a clearly defined problem, or because everyone else is doing it? If you automated your current process with AI, would you be locking in excellence or just accelerating dysfunction? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.
Darryl Wright: The Agile Team That Committed to Failure for 18 Sprints Straight Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "As Deming said, a bad system will beat a good person every time." - Darryl Wright Darryl was called in to help a struggling team at a large energy retailer. The symptoms seemed straightforward—low morale, poor relationships, and chronic underdelivery. But as he asked questions, a heartbreaking pattern emerged. The team had been "committing" to 110 story points per sprint while consistently delivering only 30. For 18 sprints. When Darryl asked why the team would commit to numbers they couldn't possibly achieve, the answer was devastating: "The business needs that much." This wasn't a problem of skill or capability—it was learned helplessness in action. Sprint after sprint, the team experienced failure, which made them more despondent and less effective, creating a vicious downward spiral. The business lost trust, the team lost confidence, and everyone was trapped in a system that guaranteed continued failure. When Darryl proposed the solution—committing to a realistic 30 points—he was told it was impossible because "the business needs 110 points." But the business wasn't getting 110 points anyway. They were getting broken promises, a demoralized team, stress leave, high churn, and a relationship built on distrust. Darryl couldn't change the system in that case, but the lesson was clear: adult people who manage their lives perfectly well outside work can become completely helpless inside work when the system repeatedly tells them their judgment doesn't matter. As Ricardo Semler observes in Maverick!, people leave their initiative at the door when organizations create systems that punish honest assessment and reward false promises. Self-reflection Question: Is your team committing to what they believe they can achieve, or to what they think someone else wants to hear? What would happen if they told the truth? Featured Book of the Week: Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart Darryl describes Better Value, Sooner, Safer, Happier by Jonathan Smart as a treasure trove of real-life experience from people who have "had their sleeves rolled up in the trenches" for decades. What he loves most is the authenticity—the authors openly share not just their successes, but all the things that didn't work and why. One story that crystallizes the book's brilliance involves Barclays Bank and their ingenious approach to change adoption. Facing resistance from laggards who refused to adopt Agile improvements despite overwhelming social proof, they started publishing lists of "most improved teams." When resisters saw themselves at the bottom of these public lists, they called to complain—and were asked, "Did you have improvements we didn't know about?" The awkward pause would follow, then the inevitable question: "How do I get these improvements?" Demand creation at its finest. Darryl particularly appreciates that the authors present at conferences saying, "Let me tell you about all the things we've stuffed up in major agile transformations all around the world," bringing genuine humility and practical wisdom to every page. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.
Darryl Wright: When Enthusiasm Became Interference—Learning to Listen as a Scrum Master Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Wait stands for Why Am I Talking? Just ask yourself, wait, why am I talking? Is this the right moment for you to give an idea, or is this the right moment to just listen and let them have space to come up with ideas?" - Darryl Wright Early in his Agile journey, Darryl was evangelically enthusiastic about the principles and practices that had transformed his approach to leadership. He believed he had discovered the answers people were seeking, and his excitement manifested in a problematic pattern—he talked too much. Constantly jumping in with solutions, ideas, and suggestions, Darryl dominated conversations without realizing the impact. Then someone pulled him aside with a generous gift: "You're not really giving other people time to come up with ideas or take ownership of a problem." They introduced him to WAIT—Why Am I Talking?—an acronym that would fundamentally shift his coaching approach. This simple tool forced Darryl to pause before speaking and examine his motivations. Was he trying to prove himself? Did he think he knew better? Or was this genuinely the right moment to contribute? As he practiced this technique, Darryl discovered something profound: when he held space and waited, others would eventually step forward with insights and solutions. The concept of "small enough to try, safe enough to fail" became his framework for deciding when to intervene. Not every moment requires a Scrum Master to step in—sometimes the most powerful coaching happens in silence. By developing better skills in active listening and learning to hold space for others, Darryl transformed from someone who provided all the answers into someone who created the conditions for shared leadership to emerge. In this episode, we refer to David Marquet's episodes on the podcast for practical techniques on holding space and enabling leadership in others. Self-reflection Question: When was the last time you caught yourself jumping in with a solution before giving your team space to discover it themselves? What would happen if you waited just five more minutes? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Darryl Wright Darryl is an Agile Coach and Instructor dedicated to helping organisations and leaders be both successful and humane. He has over two decades in IT delivery and business leadership, he champions Agile ways of working to create thriving workplaces where people are happy, productive, and deliver products customers truly love. You can link with Darryl Wright on LinkedIn, and visit Darryl's website at www.organa.com.au.
Alex Sloley: How to Coach POs Who Treat Developers Like Mindless Robots In this episode, we refer to the previous episodes with David Marquet, author of Turn the Ship Around! The Great Product Owner: Trust and the Sprint Review That Changes Everything Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "She was like, oh my gosh, I've never seen this before, I didn't think it was possible. I just saw you deliver stuff in 2 weeks that I can actually use." - Alex Sloley In 2011, Alex worked with a client organization creating software for external companies. They needed a Product Owner for a new Agile team, and a representative from the client—who had never experienced Scrum—volunteered for the role. She was initially skeptical, having never witnessed or heard of this approach. Alex gently coached her through the process, asking her to trust the team and be patient. Then came the first Sprint Review, and everything changed. For the first time in her career, she saw working product delivered in just two weeks that she could actually touch, see, and use. Her head exploded with possibility. Even though it didn't have everything and wasn't perfect, it was remarkably good. That moment flipped a switch—she became fully engaged and transformed into a champion for Agile adoption, not just for the team but for the entire company. Alex reflects that she embodied all five Scrum values: focus (trusting the team's capacity), commitment (attending and engaging in all events), openness (giving the new approach a chance), respect (giving the team space to succeed), and courage (championing an unfamiliar process). The breakthrough wasn't about product ownership techniques—it was about creating an experience that reinforced Scrum values, allowing her to see the potential of a bright new future. Self-reflection Question: What practices, techniques, or processes can you implement that will naturally and automatically build the five Scrum values in your Product Owner? The Bad Product Owner: When Control Becomes Domination Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "They basically just owned the team. The developers on the team might as well have been mindless robots, because they were being assigned all the work, told how much work they could do in a sprint, what the work was." - Alex Sloley In 2018, while working with five interconnected Product Owners, Alex observed a Sprint Planning session that revealed a severe anti-pattern. One Product Owner completely controlled everything, telling the team exactly what work they would take into the Sprint, assigning specific work to specific people by name, and dictating precisely how they would implement solutions down to technical details like which functions and APIs to use. The developers were reduced to helpless executors with no autonomy, while the Scrum Master sat powerless in the corner. Alex wondered what caused this dynamic—was the PO a former project manager? Had the team broken trust in the past? What emotional baggage or trauma led to this situation? His approach started with building trust through coffee meetings and informal conversations, crucially viewing the PO not as the problem but as someone facing their own impediment. He reframed the challenge as solving the Product Owner's problem rather than fixing the Product Owner. When he asked, "Why do you have to do all this? Can't you trust the team?" and suggested the PO could relax if they delegated, the response was surprisingly positive. The PO was willing to step back once given permission and assurance. Alex's key lesson: think strategically about how to build trust and who needs to build trust with whom. Sometimes the person who appears to be creating problems is actually struggling under their own burden. Self-reflection Question: When you encounter a controlling Product Owner, do you approach the situation as "fixing" the PO or as "solving the PO's problem"? How might this reframe change your coaching strategy? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn. Website: alexsloley.com Book: The Agile Community (available on Amazon)
Alex Sloley: Why Sticky Notes Are Your Visualization Superpower in Retrospectives Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Like the smell, the vibe is something you feel. If you're having a successful impact on the organization or on teams as a Scrum Master, you can feel it, you can smell it. It's intangible." - Alex Sloley Alex introduces a compelling concept from Sumantra Ghoshal about "the smell of the workplace"—you can walk into an environment and immediately sense whether it smells like fresh strawberries and cream or a dumpster fire. In Australia, there's a cultural reference from the movie "The Castle" about "the vibe of the thing," and Alex emphasizes that as a successful Scrum Master, you can feel and smell when you're having an impact. While telling executives you're measuring "vibe" might be challenging, Alex shares three concrete ways he's measured success. The key insight is that success isn't always measurable in traditional ways, but successful Scrum Masters develop an intuition for sensing when their work is making a meaningful difference. Self-reflection Question: Can you articulate the "vibe" or "smell" of your current team or organization? What specific indicators tell you whether your Scrum Master work is truly making an impact beyond the metrics? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Sticky Notes for Everything Alex champions any retrospective format that includes sticky notes, calling them a "visualization superpower." With sticky notes, teams can visualize anything—the good, the bad, improvements, options, possibilities, and even metrics. They make information transparent, which is critical for the inspect-and-adapt cycle that forms the heart of Scrum. Alex emphasizes being strategic about visualization: identify a challenge, figure out how to make it visual, and then create experiments around that visualization. Once something becomes visible, magic happens because the team can see patterns they've never noticed before. You can use different sizes, colors, and positions to visualize constraints in the system, including interruptions, unplanned work, blocker clustering, impediments, and flow. This approach works not just in retrospectives but in planning, reviews, and daily scrums. The key principle is that you must have transparency in order to inspect, and you must inspect to adapt. Alex's practical advice: be strategic about what you choose to visualize, involve the team in determining how to make challenges visible, and watch as the transparency naturally leads to insights and improvement ideas. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn.
Alex Sloley: Coaching Teams Trapped Between Agile Aspirations and Organizational Control Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "The team says, oh, we want to try to do things this way, and the org keeps coming back and saying stuff like, no, no, no, you can't do that, because in this org, we don't allow that." - Alex Sloley Alex shares his current challenge working with a 10-person pilot Scrum team within a 1,500-person organization that has never done Agile before. While the team appears open-minded and eager to embrace agile ways of working, the organization continuously creates impediments by dictating how the team must estimate, break down work, and operate. Management tells them "the right way" to do everything, from estimation techniques to role-based work assignments, even implementing RACI matrices that restrict who can do what type of work. Half the team has been with the organization for six months or less, making it comfortable to simply defer to authority and follow organizational rules. Through coaching conversation, Alex explores whether the team might be falling into learned helplessness or simply finding comfort in being told what to do—both positions that avoid accountability. His experimental approach includes designing retrospective questions to help the team reflect on what they believe they're empowered to do versus what management dictates, and potentially using delegation cards to facilitate conversations about decision-making authority. Alex's key insight is recognizing that teams may step back from empowerment either out of fear or comfort, and identifying which dynamic is at play requires careful, small experiments that create safe spaces for honest dialogue. Self-reflection Question: When your team defers to organizational authority, are they operating from learned helplessness, comfort in avoiding accountability, or genuine respect for hierarchy? How can you design experiments to uncover the real dynamic at play? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn.
Alex Sloley: When Toxic Leadership Creates Teams That Self-Destruct Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "They would take notes at every team meeting, so that later on they could argue with team members about what they committed to, and what they said in meetings." - Alex Sloley Alex recounts working with a small team where a project manager created such a toxic environment that one new hire quit after just eight hours on the job. This PM would belittle team members publicly, take detailed notes to use as weapons in contract negotiations, and dominate the team through intimidation. The situation became so severe that one team member sent an email that sounded like a suicide note. When the PM criticized Alex's "slide deck velocity," comparing four slides per 15 minutes to Alex's one, he realized the environment was beyond salvaging. Despite coaching the team and attempting to introduce Scrum values, Alex ultimately concluded that management was encouraging this behavior as a control mechanism. The organization lacked trust in the team, creating learned helplessness where team members became submissive and unable to resist. Sometimes, the most important lesson for a Scrum Master is recognizing when a system is too toxic to change and having the courage to walk away. Alex emphasizes that respect—one of the core Scrum values—was completely absent, making any meaningful transformation impossible. In this segment, we talk about "learned helplessness". Self-reflection Question: How do you recognize when a toxic environment is being actively encouraged by the system rather than caused by individual behavior? What are the signs that it's time to exit rather than continue fighting? Featured Book of the Week: The Goal by Eliyahu M. Goldratt Alex describes his complex relationship with The Goal by Goldratt—it both inspires and worries him. He struggles with the text because the concepts are so deep and meaningful that he's never quite sure he's fully understood everything Goldratt was trying to convey. The book was difficult to read, taking him four times longer than other agile-related books, and he had to reread entire sections multiple times. Despite the challenge, the concepts around Theory of Constraints and systems thinking have stayed with him for years. Alex worries late at night that he might have missed something important in the book. He also mentions reading The Scrum Guide at least once a week, finding new tidbits each time and reflecting on why specific segments say what they say. Both books share a common thread—the text that isn't in the text—requiring readers to dig deeper into the underlying principles and meanings rather than just the surface content. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn.
Alex Sloley: The Sprint Planning That Wouldn't End - A Timeboxing Failure Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Although I knew about the steps of sprint planning, what I didn't really understand was the box of time versus the box of scope." - Alex Sloley Alex shares a critical learning moment from his first team as a Scrum Master. After six months in the role, during an eight-hour sprint planning session for a four-week sprint, he successfully completed the "what" portion but ran out of time before addressing "how." Rather than respecting the timebox, Alex forced the team to continue planning for another four hours the next day—blowing the timebox by 50%. This experience taught him a fundamental lesson: the difference between scope-boxing and timeboxing. In waterfall, we try to control scope while time slips away. In Scrum, we fix time and let scope adjust. Alex emphasizes that timeboxing isn't just about keeping meetings short—it's about limiting work in process and maintaining focus. His practical tip: use visible timers to train yourself and your teams to respect timeboxes. This mindset shift from controlling scope to respecting time remains one of the most important lessons for Scrum Masters. Self-reflection Question: How often do you prioritize completing a planned agenda over respecting the timebox? What message does this send to your team about the values you're reinforcing? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Alex Sloley Alex believes that a great Scrum Master can have a long and lasting impact on people and teams. He is a global agile and product management evangelist, author of The Agile Community, and frequent international speaker. A former Microsoft leader with 15 years' experience, he now trains, coaches, and drives transformations worldwide. Certified across Scrum, ICAgile, and Kanban, Alex energizes communities, guides leaders, and—yes—enjoys good beer. You can link with Alex Sloley on LinkedIn.
BONUS: The Evolution of Agile - From Project Management to Adaptive Intelligence, With Mario Aiello In this BONUS episode, we explore the remarkable journey of Mario Aiello, a veteran agility thinker who has witnessed and shaped the evolution of Agile from its earliest days. Now freshly retired, Mario shares decades of hard-won insights about what works, what doesn't, and where Agile is headed next. This conversation challenges conventional thinking about methodologies, certifications, and what it truly means to be an Agile coach in complex environments. The Early Days: Agilizing Before Agile Had a Name "I came from project management and project management was, for me, was not working. I used to be a wishful liar, basically, because I used to manipulate reports in such a way that would please the listener. I knew it was bullshit." Mario's journey into Agile began around 2001 at Sun Microsystems, where he was already experimenting with iterative approaches while the rest of the world was still firmly planted in traditional project management. Working in Palo Alto, he encountered early adopters discussing Extreme Programming and had an "aha moment" - realizing that concepts like short iterations, feedback loops, and learning could rescue him from the unsustainable madness of traditional project management. He began incorporating these ideas into his work with PRINCE2, calling stages "iterations" and making them as short as possible. His simple agile approach focused on: work on the most important thing first, finish it, then move to the next one, cooperate with each other, and continuously improve. The Trajectory of Agile: From Values to Mechanisms "When the craze of methodologies came about, I started questioning the commercialization and monetization of methodologies. That's where things started to get a little bit complicated because the general focus drifted from values and principles to mechanisms and metrics." Mario describes witnessing three distinct phases in Agile's evolution. The early days were authentic - software developers speaking from the heart about genuine needs for new ways of working. The Agile Manifesto put important truths in front of everyone. However, as methodologies became commercialized, the focus shifted dangerously away from the core values and principles toward prescriptive mechanisms, metrics, and ceremonies. Mario emphasizes that when you focus on values and principles, you discover the purpose behind changing your ways of working. When you focus only on mechanics, you end up just doing things without real purpose - and that's when Agile became a noun, with people trying to "be agile" instead of achieving agility. He's clear that he's not against methodologies like Scrum, XP, SAFe, or LeSS - but rather against their mindless application without understanding the essence behind them. Making Sense Before Methodology: The Four-Fit Framework "Agile for me has to be fit for purpose, fit for context, fit for practice, and I even include a fourth dimension - fit for improvement." Rather than jumping straight to methodology selection, Mario advocates for a sense-making approach. First, understand your purpose - why do you want Agile? Then examine your context - where do you live, how does your company work? Only after making sense of the gap between your current state and where the values and principles suggest you should be, should you choose a methodology. This might mean Scrum for complex environments, or perhaps a flow-based approach for more predictable work, or creating your own hybrid. The key insight is that anyone who understands Agile's principles and values is free to create their own approach - it's fundamentally about plan, do, inspect, and adapt. Learning Through Failure: Context is Paramount "I failed more often than I won. That teaches you - being brave enough to say I failed, I learned, I move on because I'm going to use it better next time." Mario shares pivotal learning moments from his career, including an early attempt to "agilize PRINCE2" in a command-and-control startup environment. While not an ultimate success, this battle taught him that context is paramount and cannot be ignored. You must start by understanding how things are done today - identifying what's good (keep doing it), what's bad (try to improve it), and what's ugly (eradicate it to the extent possible). This lesson shaped his next engagement at a 300-person organization, where he spent nearly five months preparing the organizational context before even introducing Scrum. He started with "simple agile" practices, then took a systems approach to the entire delivery system. A Systems Approach: From Idea to Cash "From the moment sales and marketing people get brilliant ideas they want built, until the team delivers them into production and supports them - all that is a system. You cannot have different parts finger-pointing." Mario challenges the common narrow view of software development systems. Rather than focusing only on prioritization, development, and testing, he advocates for considering everything that influences delivery - from conception through to cash. His approach involved reorganizing an entire office floor, moving away from functional silos (sales here, marketing there, development over there) to value stream-based organization around products. Everyone involved in making work happen, including security, sales, product design, and client understanding, is part of the system. In one transformation, he shifted security from being gatekeepers at the end of the line to strategic partners from day one, embedding security throughout the entire value stream. This comprehensive systems thinking happened before formal Scrum training began. Beyond the Job Description: What Can an Agile Coach Really Do? "I said to some people, I'm not a coach. I'm just somebody that happens to have experience. How can I give something that can help and maybe influence the system?" Mario admits he doesn't qualify as a coach by traditional standards - he has no formal coaching qualifications. His coaching approach comes from decades of Rugby experience and focuses on establishing relationships with teams, understanding where they're going, and helping them make sense of their path forward. He emphasizes adaptive intelligence - the probe, sense, respond cycle. Rather than trying to change everything at once and capsizing the boat, he advocates for challenging one behavior at a time, starting with the most important, encouraging adaptation, and probing quickly to check for impact of specific changes. His role became inviting people to think outside the box, beyond the rigidity of their training and certifications, helping individuals and teams who could then influence the broader system even when organizational change seemed impossible. The Future: Adaptive Intelligence and Making Room for Agile "I'm using a lot of adaptive intelligence these days - probe, sense, respond, learn and adapt. That sequence will take people places." Looking ahead, Mario believes the valuable core of Agile - its values and principles - will remain, but the way we apply them must evolve. He advocates for adaptive intelligence approaches that emphasize sense-making and continuous learning rather than rigid adherence to frameworks. As he enters retirement, Mario is determined to make room for Agile in his new life, seeking ways to give back to the community through his blog, his new Substack "Adaptive Ways," and by inviting others to think differently. He's exploring a "pay as you wish" approach to sharing his experience, recognizing that while he may not be a traditional coach or social media expert, his decades of real-world experience - with its failures and successes - holds value for those still navigating the complexity of organizational change. About Mario Aiello Retired from full-time work, Mario is an agility thinker shaped by real-world complexity, not dogma. With decades in VUCA environments, he blends strategic clarity, emotional intelligence, and creative resilience. He designs context-driven agility, guiding teams and leaders beyond frameworks toward genuine value, adaptive systems, and meaningful transformation. You can link with Mario Aiello on LinkedIn, visit his website at Agile Ways.
Renee Troughton: Analytics From Day One and Four Other Principles of Great POs Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Product owners who think about their products as just a backlog that I prioritize, and I get some detailed requirements from stakeholders, and I give that to the team... that's not empowering the team. And it's probably leading you to building the wrong thing, just faster." The Bad Product Owner: The Backlog Manager Without Vision Renee describes a pattern of Product Owners who don't understand product management—they lack roadmaps, strategy, and never speak to customers. These POs focus solely on backlogs, prioritizing detailed requirements from stakeholders without testing hypotheses or learning about their market. Taking an empathetic view, Renee notes these individuals may have fallen into the role without passion, never seeing what excellence looks like, and struggling with extreme time poverty. Product ownership is one of the hardest roles from a time perspective—dealing with legislative requirements, compliance, risk, fail-and-fix work, and constant incoming demands. Drowning in day-to-day urgency, they lack breathing space for strategic thinking. These POs also struggle with vulnerability, feeling they should have all answers as leaders, making it difficult to admit knowledge gaps. Without organizational safety to fail, they can't demonstrate the confidence balanced with humility needed to test hypotheses and potentially be wrong. The result is building the wrong thing faster, without empowering teams or creating real value. Self-reflection Question: Are you managing your Product Owners' workload and supporting their strategic thinking time, or are you allowing them to drown in tactical work that prevents them from truly leading their products? The Great Product Owner: Analytics from Day One and Market Awareness "They really iterated, I think, 5 key principles quite consistently... the one thing that did really shape my thinking at that time was... Analytics from day one." Renee celebrates a Chief Product Owner who led 13 teams with extraordinary effectiveness. This PO consistently communicated five key principles, with "analytics from day one" being paramount—emphasizing the critical need to know immediately if new features work and understanding customer behavior from launch. This PO demonstrated deep market awareness, regularly spending time in Silicon Valley, understanding innovation trends and where the industry was heading. They maintained a clear product vision and could powerfully sell the dream to stakeholders. Perhaps most impressively, they brought urgency during a competitive "space race" situation when a former leader left with intellectual property to build a competing product. Despite this pressure, they never allowed compromise on quality—rallying teams with mission and purpose while maintaining standards. This combination of strategic vision, market knowledge, data-driven decision-making, and balanced urgency created an environment where teams delivered excellence under competitive pressure. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee's work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast. You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.
Renee Troughton: From Lower-Order to Higher-Order Values in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "If you, as a senior leader, demonstrate vulnerability, it creates real magic in an organization where others can open up and be their authentic self." Renee defines success for Scrum Masters through deeply human values: integrity, holding her truth, being compassionately authentic, caring, open, honest, listening, and vulnerable. She emphasizes that vulnerability as a senior leader creates transformative magic in organizations, allowing others to bring their authentic selves to work. Drawing on Byron Katie's "Loving What Is" and Frederick Laloux's "Reinventing Organizations," Renee explains that many corporate organizations focus on lower-order values like results and performance, while more autonomous organizations prioritize higher-order values rooted in the heart. When having conversations with people, Renee connects with them as human beings first—not rushing to business if someone is struggling personally. Success means seeing people completely for who they are, not as resources to be changed or leveraged. The foundation for collaboration, empowerment, and autonomy is trust, respect, and safety. Renee emphasizes that without these fundamental values in place, everything else implodes. She demonstrates how vulnerability, active listening, and accepting people where they are creates the fertile ground for successful teams and organizations. Self-reflection Question: Do you demonstrate vulnerability as a leader, creating space for others to bring their authentic selves to work, or do you hide behind a professional facade that prevents genuine human connection? Featured Retrospective Format for the Week: Themed Retrospectives (Monopoly, Sports, Current Events) "It gave a freshness to it. And it gave almost like a livelihood or a joyfulness to it as an activity as well." Renee recommends themed retrospectives like the Monopoly Retro or sports-themed formats that use current events or cultural references (aka metaphor retrospectives). While working at a consultancy, they would theme retrospectives every week around different topics—football, news events, or various scenarios—using collages of pictures showing different emotions (upset, angry, happy). Team members would identify with feelings and reframe their week within the theme's context, such as "it was a rough game" or "we didn't score enough goals." The brilliance of this approach is covering the same retrospective questions while bringing freshness, creativity, and joyfulness to the activity. These metaphorical formats allow teams to verbalize things that aren't easily expressible in structured formats, triggering different perspectives and creative thinking. The format stays consistent while feeling completely new, maintaining engagement while avoiding retrospective fatigue. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee's work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast. You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.
Renee Troughton: Managing Dependencies and Downstream Bottlenecks in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "For the actual product teams, it's not a problem for them... It's more the downstream teams that aren't the product teams, that are still dependencies... They just don't see that work until, hey, we urgently need this." Renee brings a dual-edged challenge from her current work with dozens of teams across multiple business lines. While quarterly planning happens at a high level, small downstream teams—middleware, AI, data, and even non-technical teams like legal—are not considered in the planning process. These teams experience unexpected work floods with dramatic peaks and troughs throughout the quarter. The product teams are comfortable with ambiguity and incremental delivery, but downstream service teams don't see work coming until it arrives urgently. Through a coaching conversation, Renee and Vasco explore multiple experimental approaches: top-to-bottom stack ranking of initiatives, holding excess capacity based on historical patterns, shared code ownership where downstream teams advise rather than execute changes, and using Theory of Constraints to manage flow into bottleneck teams. They discuss how lack of discovery work compounds the problem, as teams "just start working" without identifying all players who need involvement. The solution requires balancing multiple strategies while maintaining an experimentation mindset, recognizing that complex systems require sensing our way toward solutions rather than predicting them. Self-reflection Question: Are you actively managing the flow of work to prevent downstream bottlenecks, or are you allowing your "downstream teams" to be repeatedly overwhelmed by last-minute urgent requests? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee's work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast. You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.
Renee Troughton: The Hidden Cost of Constant Restructuring in Agile Organizations Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "Trust and safety are the most fundamental foundations of a team to perform. And so you are just breaking the core of teams when you're doing this." Renee challenges us to look beyond team dysfunction and examine the "dirty little secrets" in organizations—leadership-driven anti-patterns that destroy team performance. She reveals a cyclical pattern of constant restructuring that occurs every six months in many organizations, driven by leaders who avoid difficult performance management conversations and instead force people through redundancy rounds. This creates a cascade of fear, panic, and victim mindset throughout the organization. Beyond restructuring, Renee identifies other destructive patterns including the C-suite shuffle (where new CEOs bring in their own teams, cascading change throughout the organization) and the insourcing/outsourcing swings that create chaos over 5-8 year cycles. These high-level decisions drain productivity for months as teams storm and reform, losing critical knowledge and breaking the trust and safety that are fundamental for high performance. Renee emphasizes that as Agile coaches and Scrum Masters, we often don't feel empowered to challenge these decisions, yet they represent the biggest drain on organizational productivity. Self-reflection Question: Have you identified the cyclical organizational anti-patterns in your workplace, and do you have the courage to raise these systemic issues with senior leadership? Featured Book of the Week: Loving What Is by Byron Katie "It teaches you around how to reframe your thoughts in the day-to-day life, to assess them in a different light than you would normally perceive them to be." Renee recommends "Loving What Is" by Byron Katie as an essential tool for Scrum Master introspection. This book teaches practical techniques for reframing thoughts and recognizing that problems we perceive "out there" are often internal framing issues. Katie's method, called "The Work," provides a worksheet-based approach to introspection that helps identify when our perceptions create unnecessary suffering. Renee also highlights Marshall Rosenberg's "Nonviolent Communication" as a companion book, which uses language to tap into underlying emotions and needs. Both books offer practical, actionable techniques for self-knowledge—a critical skill for anyone in the Scrum Master role. The journey these books provide leads to inner peace through understanding that many challenges stem from how we internally frame situations rather than external reality. We have many episodes on NVC, Nonviolent Communication, which you can dive into and learn from experienced practitioners. [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee's work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast. You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.
Renee Troughton: How to Navigate Mandatory Deadlines in Scrum Read the full Show Notes and search through the world's largest audio library on Agile and Scrum directly on the Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast website: http://bit.ly/SMTP_ShowNotes. "I said to the CIO at the time, we're not going to hit this. In fact, we'll be... I can actually tell you, we're gonna be 3 weeks late... And he said: 'Just make it work!'" Renee shares a powerful story from her work on a mandatory legislative compliance project where reality clashed with executive expectations. Working with a team new to Agile, she carefully established velocity over two sprints and projected the delivery timeline. The challenge intensified when sales continued promising bespoke features to clients while the deadline remained fixed. Despite transparently communicating the team would miss the mandatory date by three weeks, leadership demanded she "just make it work" without providing solutions. Renee found herself creating a misleading burn-up chart to satisfy executive confidence, while the organization played a dangerous game of chicken—waiting for another implementer to admit delays first. This experience taught her the critical importance of courage in conversations with leaders and the need to clearly separate business decisions from development team responsibilities. Sometimes the best we can do is provide transparency and let leaders own the consequences of their choices. In this episode, we refer to the seminal book on large projects: The Mythical Man Month, by Frederick Brooks. Self-reflection Question: When faced with unrealistic demands from leadership, do you have the courage to maintain transparency about your team's reality, even when it means refusing to create false artifacts of confidence? [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] 🔥In the ruthless world of fintech, success isn't just about innovation—it's about coaching!🔥 Angela thought she was just there to coach a team. But now, she's caught in the middle of a corporate espionage drama that could make or break the future of digital banking. Can she help the team regain their mojo and outwit their rivals, or will the competition crush their ambitions? As alliances shift and the pressure builds, one thing becomes clear: this isn't just about the product—it's about the people. 🚨 Will Angela's coaching be enough? Find out in Shift: From Product to People—the gripping story of high-stakes innovation and corporate intrigue. Buy Now on Amazon [The Scrum Master Toolbox Podcast Recommends] About Renee Troughton Renee is one of the most experienced Agile coaches in the Southern Hemisphere with over two decades of transformation experience across banking, insurance, pharma, and real estate. Since 2002, she's helped organizations go digital, tackle systemic issues, and deliver value faster. Passionate about cutting bureaucracy, Renee champions a return to humanity at work. Follow Renee's work at AgileForest.com, her website as well as her work on the Agile Revolution podcast. You can link with Renee Troughton on LinkedIn.
BONUS: Consulting is Different—How Consulting Contracts Work Against Agile Development, With Jakob Wolman and Wilko Nienhaus In this BONUS episode, we explore the critical differences between building software as a consultant versus inside a product company. Jakob Wolman contributed an insightful article to the Global Agile Summit book examining how third-party software development operates under entirely different constraints than in-house product development. Joined by Wilko Nienhaus, CTO of Vaimo, a consulting company in Estonia, we dive into ownership dynamics, misaligned incentives, contracting challenges, and the business pressures that shape consulting—along with practical stories from the field about what really works. The Cobbler's Shoes Problem "I come back to the office from this workshop, and suddenly, with these eyes on looking for improvements in process, I just suddenly am hit by this revelation of why things are so slow here? Why are we working so inefficiently?" Jakob describes the striking paradox many consultancies face: they excel at helping clients improve their processes while their own internal operations remain inefficient. This "shoemaker's children" phenomenon reflects a fundamental challenge in consulting—the difficulty of investing in your own improvements when all energy flows toward billable client work. Digital agencies often have outdated or poorly implemented websites despite building sophisticated solutions for others, illustrating how consultancies struggle to apply their own expertise internally. Misaligned Incentives Create Antagonistic Dynamics "It's almost as if the clients are actually paying us to be slow, because our incentive is to spend more time on achieving what the client wants, because we get paid by the hour." The incentive structures in consulting create inherent conflicts that don't exist in product companies. Consultants typically bill by the hour, creating a perverse incentive to spend more time rather than deliver efficiently. Meanwhile, clients pursue business outcomes and want results as quickly and cheaply as possible. This fundamental misalignment leads to: Clients adopting a procurement mindset, treating software development like ordering from a catalog A "wall" between stakeholders and development teams that's even stronger than in product companies Antagonistic relationships where scope changes feel like financial traps rather than necessary learning Contracting processes that reinforce waterfall thinking even when both parties claim to want agility Wilko emphasizes that contracting has a huge impact on these dynamics, and companies must deliberately change their engagement models to break free from these patterns. The Budgeting Trap and Specification Overload "Because of this budgeting process where you now need to motivate what this budget does, or you need to spend that budget, you essentially create this necessity to define everything." Consulting projects often suffer from the same problem that plagued waterfall development: annual budgeting cycles that force stakeholders to cram everything into a single specification. When there's only one chance per year to secure funding, everyone stuffs the requirements document with every conceivable feature, leading to: Massive specifications that attempt to predict all needs upfront Endless discovery meetings and documentation that add cost without improving outcomes Developers working from outdated assumptions with delayed feedback Clients who don't really know what they want but feel pressured to specify everything Jakob points out the frustration that "we've already fixed this problem" in product development through iterative approaches, yet it keeps reappearing in consulting because of the separation between entities. Ownership and Quality in Consulting Environments "Skilled engineers will be frustrated if they're not allowed to do a proper job. People that have spent a lot of time in an environment where they're never allowed to do a proper job, or maybe even punished for doing a proper job, they will have given up, and not care." The difference in ownership between product and consulting development profoundly affects how engineers think about quality, technical debt, and long-term design. In product companies, developers know they'll maintain their code, creating natural incentives for quality. In consulting, the transient nature of engagements can erode quality standards. Key challenges include: Engineers knowing they won't return to the codebase, reducing long-term thinking Clients who lack technical expertise dictating approaches they don't understand Pressure to complete fixed-scope contracts regardless of quality trade-offs The role of estimates in forcing teams to "just complete this thing" even when learning suggests changes Wilko notes that teams controlled by clients versus teams managed as stable units by the consultancy show markedly different levels of ownership and engagement. Engineers want to do great work, but without real-world feedback loops, they may either overengineer based on theoretical ideals or give up on quality entirely. Breaking the Cycle: Going Live in Two Weeks "We said to them, what if we try to actually go live in a single sprint, which in most companies is 2 weeks. And they were like, nah, we're not so sure. And we said, don't worry, you're going to get everything you want in your scope by the end. But just let's try these first 2 weeks." Wilko shares a transformative story about an e-commerce project where his team convinced a client to abandon their two-year roadmap and instead focus on going live with something—anything—in two weeks. The goal: enable one existing customer to place one order for one product they already knew. This constraint forced radical prioritization. The team didn't need images, extensive product catalogs, or elaborate descriptions. They delivered a minimal but functioning system, and the results were revelatory: The client's internal discussion shifted from "we need everything" to "what should we prioritize next?" Real customer interaction revealed unexpected problems, like internal incentive conflicts where salespeople wouldn't direct customers to the website because it threatened their commissions Senior leadership embraced the iterative approach more readily than middle management The faster feedback cycle enabled genuine agility even in a consulting context This story demonstrates that iterative approaches are more likely to lead to success in consulting, and that senior leadership is often more receptive to faster feedback cycles than people expect. The key is changing the dynamic from "deliver a complete spec" to "let's go live quickly and learn." AI as a Game-Changer for Consulting Dynamics "The groundbreaking thing that's happening right now is AI, and it really feeds into this direction. Because instead of speaking, you can actually be building, you can see things, you can do stuff that you can really test in a much more real way than you could just a few years ago." Both Jakob and Wilko see artificial intelligence as a potential solution to many consulting challenges. AI tools enable rapid prototyping and visualization, allowing teams to show rather than tell. This addresses the fundamental problem that clients don't know what they want until they see it, by dramatically reducing the cost of creating tangible demonstrations that generate meaningful feedback. If you want to know more about how AI is reshaping programming, check out our AI Assisted Coding series of episodes. Quality and Testing Should Not Be Negotiable "I just simply think it shouldn't be a choice. We have to be very firm on this is how we work. We are the experts you are paying us." When clients ask to skip testing, reduce code reviews, or cut corners on infrastructure, Jakob argues consultancies must stand firm. Quality practices shouldn't be line items that clients can negotiate away. One consulting company that works strictly with Extreme Programming principles demonstrates this approach—they don't explain every detail to clients, but they clearly establish that "this is how we do all our projects. It's not a choice." Wilko adds that testing often saves time rather than adding cost, serving as a development tool that eliminates repetitive manual verification. The challenge comes during estimation, where padding for testing can make consultancies less competitive, creating pressure to compromise on quality. Jakob emphasizes that some responsibility lies with consultancies themselves, which sometimes over-promise and underbid to win business, then struggle to deliver quality within unrealistic constraints. This "race to the bottom" hurts the entire industry. The Path Forward: Deliberate Collaboration "It is fixable in a consultancy setting as well. I've seen it. I've been part of it. But you have to be very deliberate in your collaboration with the customer." Success in consulting requires deliberately designing the engagement model to support iterative development: Working backward from customer needs, not forward from specifications Establishing short feedback loops with both client stakeholders and end users Creating stable teams rather than assembling ad-hoc groups based on client requests Changing contracting models to align incentives (as explored in Sven Ditz's article in the Global Agile Summit book on delivering incrementally) Being firm about quality practices while remaining flexible about features Using AI and rapid prototyping to generate early, concrete feedback The consulting model doesn't have to default to waterfall, but it requires conscious effort to overcome the structural forces pushing in that direction. Recommended Reading In this episode, we refer to multiple resources for further r
AI Assisted Coding: From Deterministic to AI-Driven—The New Paradigm of Software Development, With Markus Hjort In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the emerging world of AI-assisted coding with Markus Hjort, CTO of Bitmagic. Markus shares his hands-on experience with what's being called "vibe coding" - a paradigm shift where developers work more like technical product owners, guiding AI agents to produce code while focusing on architecture, design patterns, and overall system quality. This conversation explores not just the tools, but the fundamental changes in how we approach software engineering as a team sport. Defining Vibecoding: More Than Just Autocomplete "I'm specifying the features by prompting, using different kinds of agentic tools. And the agent is producing the code. I will check how it works and glance at the code, but I'm a really technical product owner." Vibecoding represents a spectrum of AI-assisted development approaches. Markus positions himself between pure "vibecoding" (where developers don't look at code at all) and traditional coding. He produces about 90% of his code using AI tools, but maintains technical oversight by reviewing architectural patterns and design decisions. The key difference from traditional autocomplete tools is the shift from deterministic programming languages to non-deterministic natural language prompting, which requires an entirely different way of thinking about software development. The Paradigm Shift: When AI Changed Everything "It's a different paradigm! Looking back, it started with autocomplete where Copilot could implement simple functions. But the real change came with agentic coding tools like Cursor and Claude Code." Markus traces his journey through three distinct phases. First came GitHub Copilot's autocomplete features for simple functions - helpful but limited. Next, ChatGPT enabled discussing architectural problems and getting code suggestions for unfamiliar technologies. The breakthrough arrived with agentic tools like Cursor and Claude Code that can autonomously implement entire features. This progression mirrors the historical shift from assembly to high-level languages, but with a crucial difference: the move from deterministic to non-deterministic communication with machines. Where Vibecoding Works Best: Knowing Your Risks "I move between different levels as I go through different tasks. In areas like CSS styling where I'm not very professional, I trust the AI more. But in core architecture where quality matters most, I look more thoroughly." Vibecoding effectiveness varies dramatically by context. Markus applies different levels of scrutiny based on his expertise and the criticality of the code. For frontend work and styling where he has less expertise, he relies more heavily on AI output and visual verification. For backend architecture and core system components, he maintains closer oversight. This risk-aware approach is essential for startup environments where developers must wear multiple hats. The beauty of this flexibility is that AI enables developers to contribute meaningfully across domains while maintaining appropriate caution in critical areas. Teaching Your Tools: Making AI-Assisted Coding Work "You first teach your tool to do the things you value. Setting system prompts with information about patterns you want, testing approaches you prefer, and integration methods you use." Success with AI-assisted coding requires intentional configuration and practice. Key strategies include: System prompts: Configure tools with your preferred patterns, testing approaches, and architectural decisions Context management: Watch context length carefully; when the AI starts making mistakes, reset the conversation Checkpoint discipline: Commit working code frequently to Git - at least every 30 minutes, ideally after every small working feature Dual AI strategy: Use ChatGPT or Claude for architectural discussions, then bring those ideas to coding tools for implementation Iteration limits: Stop and reassess after roughly 5 failed iterations rather than letting AI continue indefinitely Small steps: Split features into minimal increments and commit each piece separately In this segment we refer to the episode with Alan Cyment on AI Assisted Coding, and the Pachinko coding anti-pattern. Team Dynamics: Bigger Chunks and Faster Coordination "The speed changes a lot of things. If everything goes well, you can produce so much more stuff. So you have to have bigger tasks. Coordination changes - we need bigger chunks because of how much faster coding is." AI-assisted coding fundamentally reshapes team workflows. The dramatic increase in coding speed means developers need larger, more substantial tasks to maintain flow and maximize productivity. Traditional approaches of splitting stories into tiny tasks become counterproductive when implementation speed increases 5-10x. This shift impacts planning, requiring teams to think in terms of complete features rather than granular technical tasks. The coordination challenge becomes managing handoffs and integration points when individuals can ship significant functionality in hours rather than days. The Non-Deterministic Challenge: A New Grammar "When you're moving from low-level language to higher-level language, they are still deterministic. But now with LLMs, it's not deterministic. This changes how we have to think about coding completely." The shift to natural language prompting introduces fundamental uncertainty absent from traditional programming. Unlike the progression from assembly to C to Python - all deterministic - working with LLMs means accepting probabilistic outputs. This requires developers to adopt new mental models: thinking in terms of guidance rather than precise instructions, maintaining checkpoints for rollback, and developing intuition for when AI is "hallucinating" versus producing valid solutions. Some developers struggle with this loss of control, while others find liberation in focusing on what to build rather than how to build it. Code Reviews and Testing: What Changes? "With AI, I spend more time on the actual product doing exploratory testing. The AI is doing the coding, so I can focus on whether it works as intended rather than syntax and patterns." Traditional code review loses relevance when AI generates syntactically correct, pattern-compliant code. The focus shifts to testing actual functionality and user experience. Markus emphasizes: Manual exploratory testing becomes more important as developers can't rely on having written and understood every line Test discipline is critical - AI can write tests that always pass (assert true), so verification is essential Test-first approach helps ensure tests actually verify behavior rather than just existing Periodic test validation: Randomly modify test outputs to verify they fail when they should Loosening review processes to avoid bottlenecks when code generation accelerates dramatically Anti-Patterns and Pitfalls to Avoid Several common mistakes emerge when developers start with AI-assisted coding: Continuing too long: When AI makes 5+ iterations without progress, stop and reset rather than letting it spiral Skipping commits: Without frequent Git checkpoints, recovery from AI mistakes becomes extremely difficult Over-reliance without verification: Trusting AI-generated tests without confirming they actually test something meaningful Ignoring context limits: Continuing to add context until the AI becomes confused and produces poor results Maintaining traditional task sizes: Splitting work too granularly when AI enables completing larger chunks Forgetting exploration: Reading about tools rather than experimenting hands-on with your own projects The Future: Autonomous Agents and Automatic Testing "I hope that these LLMs will become larger context windows and smarter. Tools like Replit are pushing boundaries - they can potentially do automatic testing and verification for you." Markus sees rapid evolution toward more autonomous development agents. Current trends include: Expanded context windows enabling AI to understand entire codebases without manual context curation Automatic testing generation where AI not only writes code but also creates and runs comprehensive test suites Self-verification loops where agents test their own work and iterate without human intervention Design-to-implementation pipelines where UI mockups directly generate working code Agentic tools that can break down complex features autonomously and implement them incrementally The key insight: we're moving from "AI helps me code" to "AI codes while I guide and verify" - a fundamental shift in the developer's role from implementer to architect and quality assurance. Getting Started: Experiment and Learn by Doing "I haven't found a single resource that covers everything. My recommendation is to try Claude Code or Cursor yourself with your own small projects. You don't know the experience until you try it." Rather than pointing to comprehensive guides (which don't yet exist for this rapidly evolving field), Markus advocates hands-on experimentation. Start with personal projects where stakes are low. Try multiple tools to understand their strengths. Build intuition through practice rather than theory. The field changes so rapidly that reading about tools quickly becomes outdated - but developing the mindset and practices for working with AI assistance provides durable value regardless of which specific tools dominate in the future. About Markus Hjort Markus is Co-founder and CTO of Bitmagic, and has over 20 years of software development expertise. Starting with Commodore 64 game programming, his career spans gaming, fintech, and more. As a programmer, consultant, agile coach, and leader, Markus has succes
AI Assisted Coding: Pachinko Coding—What They Don't Tell You About Building Apps with Large Language Models, With Alan Cyment In this BONUS episode, we dive deep into the real-world experience of coding with AI. Our guest, Alan Cyment, brings honest perspectives from the trenches—sharing both the frustrations and breakthroughs of using AI tools for software development. From "Pachinko coding" addiction loops to "Mecha coding" breakthroughs, Alan explores what actually works when building software with large language models. From Thermomix Dreams to Pachinko Reality "I bought into the Thermomix coding promise—describe the whole website and it would spit out the finished product. It was a complete disaster." Alan started his AI coding journey with high expectations, believing he could simply describe a complete application and receive production-ready code. The reality was far different. What he discovered instead was an addictive cycle he calls "Pachinko coding" (Pachinko, aka Slot Machines in Japan)—repeatedly feeding error messages back to the AI, hoping each iteration would finally work, while burning through tokens and time. The AI's constant reassurances that "this time I fixed it" created a gambling-like feedback loop that left him frustrated and out of pocket, sometimes spending over $20 in API credits in a single day. The Drunken PhD with Amnesia "It felt like working with a drunken PhD with amnesia—so wise and so stupid at the same time." Alan describes the maddening experience of anthropomorphizing AI tools that seem brilliant one moment and completely lost the next. The key breakthrough came when he stopped treating the AI as a person and started seeing it as a function that performs extrapolations—sometimes accurate, sometimes wildly wrong. This mental shift helped him manage expectations and avoid the "rage coding" that came from believing the AI should understand context and maintain consistency like a human collaborator. Making AI Coding Actually Work "I learned to ask for options explicitly before any coding happens. Give me at least three options and tell me the pros and cons." Through trial and error, Alan developed practical strategies that transformed AI from a frustrating Pachinko machine into a useful tool: Ask for options first: Always request multiple approaches with pros and cons before any code is generated Use clover emoji convention: Implement a consistent marker at the start of all AI responses to track context Small steps and YAGNI principles: Request tiny, incremental changes rather than large refactoring Continuous integration: Demand the AI run tests and checks after every single change Explicit refactoring requests: Regularly ask for simplification and readability improvements Take two steps back: When stuck in a loop, explicitly tell the AI to simplify and start fresh Choose the right tech stack: Use technologies with abundant training data (like Svelte over React Native in Alan's experience) The Mecha Coding Breakthrough "When it worked, I felt like I was inside a Lego Mecha robot—the machine gave me superpowers, but I was still the one in control." Alan successfully developed a birthday reminder app in Swift in just one day, despite never having learned Swift. He made architectural decisions and guided the development without understanding the syntax details. This experience convinced him that AI represents a genuine new level of abstraction in programming—similar to the jump from assembly language to high-level languages, or from procedural to object-oriented programming. You can now think in English about what you want, while the AI handles the accidental complexity of syntax and boilerplate. The Cost Reality Check "People writing about vibe coding act like it's free. But many people are going to pay way more than they would have paid a developer and end up with empty hands." Alan provides a sobering cost analysis based on his experience. Using DeepSeek through Aider, he typically spends under $1 per day. But when experimenting with premium models like Claude Sonnet 3.5, he burned through $5 in just minutes. The benchmark comparisons are revealing: DeepSeek costs $4 for a test suite, DeepSeek R1 plus Sonnet costs $16, while Open AI's O1 costs $190. For non-developers trying to build complete applications through pure "vibe coding," the costs can quickly exceed what hiring a developer would cost—with far worse results. When Thermomix Actually Works "For small, single-purpose scripts that I'm not interested in learning about and won't expand later, the Thermomix experience was real." Despite the challenges, Alan found specific use cases where AI truly delivers on the "just describe it and it works" promise. Processing Zoom attendance logs, creating lookup tables for video effects, and other single-file scripts worked remarkably well. The pattern: clearly defined context, no need for ongoing maintenance, and simple enough to verify the output without deep code inspection. For these thermomix moments, AI proved genuinely transformative. The Pachinko Trap and Tech Stack Matters "It became way more stable when I switched to Svelte from React Native and Flutter, even following the same prompting practices. The AI is just more proficient in certain tech stacks." Alan discovered that some frameworks and languages work dramatically better with AI than others, likely due to the amount of training data available. His e-learning platform attempts with React Native and Flutter kept breaking, but switching to Svelte with web-based deployment became far more stable. This suggests a crucial strategy: choose mainstream, well-documented technologies when planning AI-assisted projects. From Coding to Living with AI Alan has completely stopped using traditional search engines, relying instead on LLMs for everything from finding technical documentation to getting recommendations for books based on his interests. While he acknowledges the risk of hallucinations, he finds the semantic understanding capabilities too valuable to ignore. He's even used image analysis to troubleshoot his father's cable TV problems and figure out hotel air conditioning controls. The Agile Validation "My only fear is confirmation bias—but the conclusion I see other experienced developers reaching is that the only way to make LLMs work is by making them use agility. So look at who's dead now." Alan notes the irony that the AI coding tools that actually work all require traditional software engineering best practices: small iterations, test-driven development, continuous integration, and explicit refactoring. The promise of "just describe what you want" falls apart without these disciplines. Rather than replacing software engineering principles, AI tools seem to validate their importance. About Alan Cyment Alan Cyment is a consultant, trainer, and facilitator based in Buenos Aires, specializing in organizational fluency, agile leadership, and software development culture change. A Certified Scrum Trainer with deep experience across Latin America and Europe, he blends agile coaching with theatre-based learning to help leaders and teams transform. You can link with Alan Cyment on LinkedIn.
kouhyar
unfortunately My grandmas passed away
nima jay Hawking
hi, where is the script of it's episode?
Beatrix Ducz
this idea is fab! Very good!
Remi Ige
Awesome Bola!
Remi Ige
Awesome!