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On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Spitfire News writer Kat Tenbarge, who came to the defense of the Gaylor fandom (people who believe Taylor Swift is secretly queer) after they were accused of “crashing out” in light of her engagement to Travis Kelce. But who are the Gaylors, really? And why are they always the butt of the joke? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay talk about the backlash surrounding The Cutting Room Floor, a fashion podcast you may know from its Leandra Medine Cohen episode or its viral Steve Madden interview. Last week, host and creator Recho Omondi went on TikTok to hire a full-time staffer who would be an office administrator, bookings coordinator, and personal assistant. Fans were intrigued until she dropped that this role would pay a salary of $55,000 with no healthcare benefits. TikTok reacted strongly and immediately, taking issue with the low salary and bringing up the privileged candidate who could afford to take a job like this in New York City. Omondi responded by going on TikTok Live and posting a short Patreon episode she titled “$55k Gate,” but doubling down seemed to triple the discourse.  Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate staff writer Luke Winkie, whose piece “Is This What It Takes to Beat Trump?” examines Gavin Newsom’s latest social media strategy: shitposting. The California governor has started tweeting in the style of Donald Trump to ridicule the president and promote his new redistricting effort in California. It’s also paving the way for a potential presidential campaign in 2028. But is his comedy cutting, or just cringe? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay explain what’s going on between the internet’s favorite sad girls, Ethel Cain and Lana Del Rey. Where did their beef start and why is Peter Griffin involved? Then, they dive into a new TikTokker who dresses up as the Lorax, does spot-on Ariana Grande impressions, and could be our next big comedian. But first, our favorite TikTok dolls may finally start posting again. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Adonis Williams has been a mover in New York City for 20 years. He says he's moved about 3,500 people, and with each move, he catches a glimpse of a life in transition. There are the happy moves: getting a bigger place, couples moving in together, kids going off to college. There are also the sad moves: divorce, breakups, eviction. Adonis says he talks with his customers about it all. "You become the bartender or the taxi driver that they need to vent to." In this episode, Adonis explains why he didn't charge money for the first five years of being a mover and what he's observed on the job about relationships, family, and the cost of living in New York. You can hear more Adonis in this episode, where he talked with one of his moving clients, and you can reach Adonis for a move on his website.   Podcast production by Zoe Azulay Death, Sex & Money is now produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

On today’s episode, hosts Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate staff writer Aymann Ismail to discuss the controversial YouTube channel, Jubilee. A video of political commentator Mehdi Hasan debating 20 far-right republicans has gone viral, but as Ismail argues in his piece for Slate, it also crossed a line. When political disagreement becomes content and extremism is rewarded with clicks, everybody loses.  Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim discuss the latest in Labubu-land, from a TikTok blackface controversy to leaving one on an iconic anti-capitalist’s grave. Then, they dive into the growing trend of fanfiction getting a big marketing push from the publishing world. From Ali Hazelwood’s The Love Hypothesis starting as Reylo fanfic to Julie Soto basing her latest novel on a Dramione ship, traditional publishing is reaching into the channels of AO3, Tumblr, and Wattpad to find their next big hit. But what do we lose when our favorite fanfictions get taken mainstream? And is it good or bad for the community they originated from? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim run through some updates following the Coldplay concert cheating scandal, and why Astronomer’s latest PR stunt is hitting them differently. Then, they surprise each other with two stories from different sides of the internet. First, what’s going on with this fake TikTok cult that possibly involves animal sacrifices, skin carvings, and questionable leadership? And who is Jessie Murph, the pseudo-country singer whose recent performance on The Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon has the internet questioning whether her lyrics are satirical or regressive? Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay investigate the disappearance of SylvanianDrama. The creator behind the account gained millions of followers for role-playing salacious narratives with the fuzzy Calico Critters children’s toys, but a copyright lawsuit from the brand itself has threatened the future of the account. Fans of SylvanianDrama are in an uproar, but the story isn’t black and white. Instead, it’s a warning for all of us about how personal posts online could end up paying professional consequences. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim break down everything that’s happened since a software CEO was caught in a suspicious position with his co-worker at a Coldplay concert. From Chris Martin’s viral dialogue to the dearth of content emerging from this story, they run through the tenets of a monocultural moment and debunk the misinformation that has transpired alongside this scandal. Get more of ICYMI with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of ICYMI and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the ICYMI show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/icymiplus for access wherever you listen. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Brendan Paul co-owns the Graceland Wedding Chapel in Las Vegas, which claims to be the site of the world's first Elvis-themed wedding. Dressed in sparkly jumpsuits, Brendan marries sometimes as many as 75 people a day—in back to back 15-minute appointments. But while his portrayal of Elvis is generally a jovialone, his view on The King's life isn't entirely one of reverence. "That loneliness, that despair, that unsatisfied inside," he told me about Elvis near the end of his life. "A lot people go, 'I bet you wish you were Elvis,' and I always go, 'Not really.'" This episode originally aired in 2022 in collaboration with Condé Nast Traveler and their new love and travel series. Read more about Brendan and find other essays about love and travel here. You can hear our 2022 listener style episode about weddings and budgets here— Bells and Bills: The Price You Paid For Your Wedding  Death, Sex & Money is produced by Slate! To support us and our colleagues, please sign up for our membership program, Slate Plus! Members get ad-free podcasts, bonus content on lots of Slate shows, and full access to all the articles on Slate.com. Sign up today at slate.com/dsmplus. And if you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by New York Times reporter and former ICYMI host Madison Malone Kircher to break down the internet history of Jojo Siwa. The 22-year-old got her start on Dance Moms over ten years ago, and has gone on to be a singer, performer, and serial reality TV show contestant. During this time she came out as queer, and attempted to have her own Miley Cyrus Bangerz rebrand. Now, with a new single and a new boyfriend, Jojo is entering yet another era, prompting the question: Who is Jojo Siwa, anyway? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay, with help from Benjamin Frisch. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim is joined by Dazed senior writer Laura Pitcher to discuss her piece, “Meet the people using ChatGPT as their therapist.” Since ChatGPT’s public release in late 2022, there has been a growing reliance on the artificially intelligent chatbot in people’s everyday lives. TikTok users are talking about the way they use ChatGPT as their therapist, their best friend, their life organizer, and more. But is reliant, daily use of an AI service worth possible consequences such as climate change, loneliness, and data privacy concerns? On today’s episode, ICYMI dives into the unexpected ways people have been using ChatGPT and whether we can predict its role in the near future. This podcast episode was produced by Se’era Spragley Ricks, Daisy Rosario and Candice Lim, with production assistance from Alexandra Botti and Kat Hong. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Ray Christian joined the U.S. Army in 1978, as a way to get his life started. He became a paratrooper, an infantryman, and a drill sergeant. He also endured trauma and found that getting out of the service was more challenging than he expected.  This week, Ray discusses why he signed up in the first place, what it was like serving in-between major conflicts, and how he eventually transitioned into a life of academia and storytelling.  To hear more of Ray’s stories, check out his appearances on Snap Judgement, The Moth, and Risk!. And make sure to subscribe to What’s Ray Saying? wherever you get your podcasts.  This episode was produced by Cameron Drews. Get more Death, Sex & Money with Slate Plus! Join for exclusive bonus episodes of DSM and ad-free listening on all your favorite Slate podcasts. Subscribe from the Death, Sex & Money show page on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Or, visit slate.com/dsmplus to get access wherever you listen. If you’re new to the show, welcome. We’re so glad you’re here. Find us and follow us on Instagram and you can find Anna’s newsletter at annasale.substack.com. Our new email address, where you can reach us with voice memos, pep talks, questions, critiques, is deathsexmoney@slate.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim are joined by Ingrid Nilsen, an OG beauty lifestyle YouTuber who you may know as “MissGlamorazzi,” to reflect on the 10-year anniversary of her most iconic video to date.  Throughout the 2010s, YouTube was the platform of choice for “coming out” videos. During those years, the U.S. saw progress in LGBTQ+ acceptance and representation, including a SCOTUS decision legalizing gay marriage nationwide in 2015. A part of this growing acceptance online included prominent creators speaking up about their own sexuality, creating essentially, an entire genre of YouTube videos. Entering that genre in 2015 was Nilsen, whose coming out video has more than 18 million views, and became perhaps the most memorable coming out video from that era.  Ten years later, Nilsen joins the show to talk about the moment before she hit upload, what she’s been up to since, and how the reaction — and backlash — to that video affected her coming out journey. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Yahoo senior entertainment reporter Kelsey Weekman, who is fresh off the plane from this year’s VidCon. Unlike past years, when TikTokkers took over the Anaheim Convention Center, VidCon 2025 put YouTubers front and center, inducting the first creators into the VidCon Hall of Fame. With platforms like MySpace and Vine coming and going, how has YouTube stuck around? Why can’t TikTok dethrone it? And who on earth is “jmancurly”??? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Slate staff writer Nadira Goffe, whose coverage of the United States v. Sean Combs (also known as the Diddy trial) has meant sharing a press room with YouTubers and streamers. These new media journalists have millions of followers, and aren’t beholden to the same editorial and ethical standards as traditional news outlets. As a result, they might just be beating them at their own game.  This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Candice Lim and Kate Lindsay are joined by Wired senior writer and producer of Black Twitter: A People’s History, Jason Parham, to attempt to explain the enigma that is “international bestselling author” Quan Millz. With titles like Old THOT Next Door and My Baby Daddy Is A Bedbug, Millz’s books have no trouble capturing the attention of the internet, so much so that the previously-anonymous author was forced to unmask himself to ward off a potential scandal. But who, exactly, are Millz’s books for? And the even more ominous question: What will he do next? This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay, with help from A.C. Valdez. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Kate Lindsay and Candice Lim dive into the online workplace drama surrounding a millennial founder’s hot take about 9-to-5 workers. Lindsey Carter is the CEO of SET Active, an influencer-targeted athleisure brand you may have seen on Kaia Gerber and Kendall Jenner. Recently, Carter complained in a now-deleted TikTok about office workers who leave right when the clock strikes 5 p.m. This is not the first time Carter has come under fire for questionable workplace practices, but this time, she’s Substacking through the backlash and letting this become a marketing moment. And while posting through workplace drama may help her brand go viral, what will it do to her workers and their morale? Also, why CEOs should turn off the microphones and put some headphones on. This podcast is produced by Vic Whitley-Berry, Daisy Rosario, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

After dating influencer TheWizardLiz revealed she had been cheated on, her viral tips for how to “keep” a man rang hollow. Candice Lim fills in Kate Lindsay on all the Wizard Liz lore, and how TikTok dating gurus are this decade’s Carrie Bradshaws. But with so much more of our lives on display, it’s riskier than ever for anyone to claim they’ve figured out the secret to love. Have these creators really cracked the code for a successful relationship, or are they just pickup artists in a new font?  This podcast is produced by Daisy Rosario, Vic Whitley-Berry, Candice Lim, and Kate Lindsay. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices