Smart Agency Masterclass with Jason Swenk: Podcast for Digital Marketing Agencies

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What do you do when your career takes an unexpected left turn? And how do you know when it’s time to stop hustling like a freelancer and start leading like a CEO? Today’s featured guest found herself in that situation and made the bold choice to go from career misstep to becoming an agency owner. She'll dive into what it really takes to go from a one-woman shop with dial-up internet to leading a team with vision, systems, and staying power. From handwritten letters with a 15% close rate to breaking free from client dependency and leveraging AI without losing the human touch, she shares the hard-earned lessons every agency owner needs to hear. Kriston Sellier is the President and Founder of Id8, a specialized branding agency based in Atlanta. With more than 25 years in the business, she’s built a reputation for helping food, beverage, and manufacturing brands stand out and thrive. Kriston is passionate about research-driven branding, cultivating strong communities, and proving that the human side of leadership is just as critical as the strategy. In this episode, we’ll discuss:                                    Starting over after being fired. Outgrowing freelance mode. What do agency owners need to grow? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Thriving in the Agency World After Being Fired Kriston didn’t step into agency ownership with a clean, corporate plan. She was fired. After leaving IBM to co-found an agency, she found herself pushed out after a handshake deal gone wrong. At 20-something, she was suddenly unemployed and staring down two options: get another job or finally chase her dream of starting her own shop. It wasn’t easy, but that leap turned out to be the right one. Starting out with no clients, she set a modest goal of making $35,000 in her first year. Instead, she closed out her first nine months with $90,000. That was the moment she knew she wasn’t just freelancing; she was building something real. From Cold Calls to Handwritten Letters: Building the First Client Base Kriston started with just a basement office and dial-up internet. Since this was the 90s, if her husband picked up the phone line upstairs it would disconnect the whole system. She started out making cold calls to every food and beverage brand in the Yellow Pages. Additionally, she also sent handwritten letters pitching her services, yielding an impressive 15% close rate. In today’s digital-first world, that kind of return sounds impossible, but back then it got her first wave of clients. It’s a reminder that persistence and a personal touch can cut through the noise, even if the tools have changed. Outgrowing Freelance Mode and Thinking Like a CEO Like many agency owners, Kriston spent the early years acting more like a freelancer than a CEO. That all changed in 2006 when one client made up 75% of her business. The sleepless nights and anxiety from being handcuffed to a single account forced her to rethink everything. A colleague recommended working with a business consultant, so Kriston hired one and for four years, she worked with a full-time consultant who helped her transition from operator to CEO. That shift meant putting systems in place, committing to sales, and most importantly, diversifying her client base. Within the first year of working with her consultant, she added 25 new clients and broke free from the one-client trap. What Agency CEOs Need to Grow? Kriston strongly believes that CEOs should surround themselves with subject matter experts. Every agency owner needs a good advisory board that tells them the truths they doesn’t necessarily want to hear, which is why she recommends relying on financial, HR, and sales consultants that can help you look at things from a different perspective. Regarding her role as CEO, Kriston definitely sees herself as more of a coach than a manager. For her, leadership is about helping team members uncover the real issues behind their challenges and guiding them to their own solutions. Likewise, the best team members are those who show they’re coachable and open to feedback. She doesn’t see failure as the end of the road but as a symptom of something deeper. Her job is to help her team ask the right questions, recognize the root cause, and take ownership of the fix. That shift from micromanaging tasks to coaching outcomes not only freed her up as a leader but also empowered her team to make better decisions without her constant oversight. AI, Research, and the Future of Agencies Running a research-based agency, Kriston is a big fan of Perplexity, a research-focused AI she uses 20–40 times a day for everything from writing stronger emails to analyzing massive datasets. But she’s quick to point out that AI isn’t a replacement for agencies—it’s an enhancer. Where some fear AI will eliminate agency work, Kriston agrees that companies will still want experts to navigate the complexity and not DIY everything themselves. Clients may use AI for certain tasks, but they’ll still rely on agencies for strategy, creativity, and execution.. AI + human expertise is the winning formula. And with large organizations outsourcing more marketing again, Kriston believes the future is bright for agencies that bring innovation, research, and personal connection to the table. Cooperation Over Competition Kriston wants agency owners to stop treating each other like competitors and start seeing each other as collaborators. She believes the industry’s future depends on agency owners being open, honest, and willing to share both wins and lessons learned. Most agency owners see every other shop as a threat when they’re starting out, fearful of competition instead of open to collaboration. At some point, however, through masterminds and peer groups, they come to realize the real growth comes when owners start to build community and create strategic partnerships. For Kriston, it all comes back to community, the same mission she set when she started ID8 decades ago. Build the community, and the business will follow. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you really implementing AI in your agency the right way? Adding a random tool just to say you “use AI” isn’t the game changer many agency owners hope it will be. In fact, chasing shiny AI solutions can waste time, drain resources, and create tools your team never actually uses. Many agency leaders, especially those aiming to build a sellable business, assume any form of AI integration will automatically boost their agency’s value. But today’s featured guest strongly disagrees. He’s seen firsthand how agencies fall into the trap of building solutions first and searching for problems later, a costly mistake that does more harm than good. Instead, he’s here to share how to approach AI adoption strategically, in ways that actually stick and drive real results. Ken McLoud is the CEO of Laconic Technologies, a business that aims to help agencies figure out how to make AI actually useful. His specialty is finding high-leverage spots in your agency where AI can unlock growth without bloating your headcount. Ken helps owners avoid wasted tools and instead roll out AI that gives their teams real superpowers. In this episode we’ll discuss: How agency owners are forcing AI integration the wrong way. When to use custom code. A case study of real world wins and misses. The future of AI in agencies. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Stop Forcing AI Where It Doesn’t Belong Ken specializes in helping agency owners start to think strategically about AI. One of the first things he warns about is the “solution in search of a problem” trap. Too many agency owners decide, “We need to be using AI somewhere,” and then jam it into the wrong part of the business. That usually leads to tools that sound cool but don’t move the needle, or worse, meet resistance from the very team that’s supposed to use them. Instead, Ken suggests starting with the business itself. Are you demand-constrained (needing more leads) or supply-constrained (too much work, not enough capacity)? His litmus test is simple: if a fairy godmother doubled your clients overnight, would you cheer or panic? That answer tells you where the bottleneck really is, and that’s the exact spot where AI should be applied. Case Study: Smarter Finance Insights with AskQuick.ai Ken worked to build AskQuick.ai with Nate Jenson, a fractional CFO who worked with tons of agencies. Nate had deep financial expertise but needed a way to scale his brain. Together, they built AskQuick.ai, a chatbot trained on Nate’s own textbook of agency finance. The result was a tool that taps into a client’s QuickBooks data to deliver specific insights, like spotting which clients are actually losing money. After a rebrand, he is now marketing the product as a simple, agency-friendly tool rather than a complex back-end. No-Code Tools vs. Custom Code: Where’s the Breaking Point? Every agency owner has been tempted by tools like N8N, Zapier, or Make.com. According to Ken, these tools are perfect for simple workflows and stuff you could explain in one or two sentences. These tools are often pitched as something anyone with a computer and no experience ca n use, but once your automation starts piling up with dozens of nodes, things break constantly, and you spend more time fixing than benefiting. That’s when it’s smarter to build custom code. Ken compares it to driving stick shift: more control, less frustration, and often a way faster solution. AI As a Superpower Not a Replacement For Ken, the real promise of AI isn’t replacing people, but rather upgrading them. He calls it “giving your team superpowers.” By offloading the repetitive, low-value work to AI, you free up your people to focus on strategy, creativity, and client impact. Instead of fearing AI, most teams welcome it. Nobody loves repetitive tasks, and when you use AI to clear that away, your staff gets to spend more time on what actually lights them up. Real-World Wins (and Misses) If you’re wondering how some agencies are using AI right, Ken has seen quite a few examples. For instance, an Australian medical agency built a custom chatbot trained on years of proprietary medical content. The tool now helps their writers quickly draft accurate, technical marketing content; something that would have taken hours of research before. Huge win. On the other hand, this agency built a classic example of a solution in search of a problem. Basically, the owner wanted an elaborate folder system to organize AI chats. It sounded clever, but the writers never actually needed it. Why? Because new AI queries were faster than digging through folders. A perfect example of chasing a solution before identifying a real problem. The Future of AI in Agencies in Plain English Looking ahead, Ken sees AI becoming a tool to replace code and processes. Many things we used to hardwire with messy “if-this-then-that” logic can now be handled with prompts. That means non-technical agency owners can adjust systems in plain English instead of hiring a developer every time they need a change. These tools can make all the difference for agencies that get hundreds of deals come through every day and need a quick way to sort through the ones that can be most profitable from those that likely won’t. In these cases speed is everything and AI can deliver in a way that human response cannot. However, Ken is also clear that not every problem should be handed to AI. High-value, low-risk areas, like grading prospects or filtering opportunities, are perfect testing grounds. Mission-critical, high-risk functions will probably still need human oversight for a while. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agencies don’t make it 25 years but Bill Swanston’s has. From surviving 9/11 to leading a 30-person team through COVID, Bill shares how Bosun (formerly Frederick Swanston) adapted, learned to love KPIs, empowered their team, and even pulled off a successful rebrand. His story proves you can survive the toughest agency seasons and come out stronger—if you track the right numbers, avoid “superclient” risk, and learn to truly let go. What You’ll Learn Why resilience (not just growth hacks) is the real agency survival skill How ignoring KPIs almost cost the agency big—and how to avoid that mistake Why letting go of control is the only way to grow past founder-dependence What a rebrand really signals about an agency’s maturity and leadership shift The hidden dangers of relying on a “superclient” Key Takeaways Keep overhead light in uncertain times—it gives you room to maneuver when crises hit. Track your KPIs like a client project: salaries as % of AGI, AGI per employee, revenue per client. Don’t rely on a single client for survival—client concentration is a silent killer. Empower your team early—you can’t scale if you’re reviewing every deliverable yourself. Rebrands work when they reflect a cultural shift—not just a new logo. What does it really take to keep an agency alive through market crashes, pandemics, and the endless grind without burning out or losing your edge? Today’s featured guest will unpack his journey from starting in a basement with a couple of clients to leading a 30-person team through some of the toughest seasons an agency can face. From navigating financial blind spots to learning how to actually let go and trust his team, and the reason the agency’s 25th anniversary actually marked a big shift with a new rebrand. Bill Swanston is the president and founder of Bosun, an Atlanta-based agency that just celebrated its 25th anniversary. Formerly known as Frederick Swanston, the agency has weathered market crashes, client shakeups, and a pandemic while building a powerhouse team with deep creative and digital chops. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The challenges that really tested the agency’s resilience. How learning to love KPIs saved the business. Why rebrand after 25 years? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Building Through Adversity and Surviving 9/11 After moving back to Atlanta from New York, Bill was freelancing at BBDO and thinking about switching to smaller agency. As he saw it, it was better to be a big fish in a smaller pond. Unfortunately, his gig at the smaller agency was short lived, since the agency shut down for good. Instead of packing it in, Bill and his partner Scott Frederick grabbed a few clients, set up shop in a basement, and got to work. Built-in revenue gave them a smoother start than most scrappy entrepreneurs, but reality set in quickly. By the early 2000s, they were hit hard by 9/11 and its ripple effect on corporate events. It was a reminder that whether you’re at a big holding company or running your own small shop, stability is often an illusion. Surviving those first waves meant keeping overhead light, grinding it out, and learning how to adapt before the word “pivot” became a business cliché. The Challenge that Really Tested the Agency’s Resilience Partnerships can make or break an agency and Bill admits the early years with his partner had their rough patches, not as creatives, but as business owners learning how to disagree productively. Over time, their different strengths meshed into what became a powerful leadership duo. But nothing tested the agency quite like COVID. With a staff of 30 suddenly looking to them for answers, the partners had to act fast. They slashed salaries, cut their own pay completely, and relied on federal relief programs like PPP loans to keep the team intact. That lifeline, combined with quick adjustments, got them back on track. As Bill put it, “It was the absolute worst period of time for the agency. But we came out stronger because we had no choice but to figure it out fast.” From Gut Instinct to KPIs That Saved the Business Like a lot of creative-led shops, Bill and his partner weren’t exactly obsessed with financial metrics at first. According to Bill, they mostly leaned on QuickBooks, check-writing, and gut instincts. That worked until it didn’t. By the time they realized improprieties had slipped under the radar, they knew it was time to upgrade. Today, they track everything from salaries as a percentage of adjusted gross income to AGI per employee to recurring revenue versus project-based work. They also look at revenue per client to ensure there isn’t any one account that is overwhelming the team. Like many agencies, they had this happen at one point, with a client that accounted for 50% of their billing. He remembers being scared once this client started to dwindle as a result of the ‘08 crisis, which taught him the danger of relying on superclients that can walk away and take half your revenue with them. Bill stresses that KPIs aren’t about being a math whiz, but about having clarity. Knowing your true profitability by client or department means you stop guessing and start making better decisions. “We do it for our clients,” he said, “so we’ve got to do it for ourselves too.” Nowadays, he works with an external CPA and an internal comptroller who help him keep an eye on the agency’s finances. Pro tip: If you’re not yet at the point where you can have a CFO but don’t know where to start to assess your agency’s financials, use askquick.ai. It’s a tool developed by Jason and his team that’ll help you figure out your most profitable clients, assess your financial red flags, measure your KPIs, and more. Learning to Let Go and Empower the Team For the first decade, Bill and Scott were deep in the weeds, reviewing every creative output, managing every account, carrying the business on their backs. Eventually, the workload became too much and they had to learn how to trust others. Empowering team members to make real decisions wasn’t easy. It started organically as new hires took over account management, media, and digital responsibilities. Over time, Bill realized the work improved when people felt ownership and felt empowered to shape the agency. “The ability to let go and trust others is essential to grow your agency,” he says. This trust not only gave the agency room to grow but also gave Bill and Scott the freedom to step back from being prisoners of their own business. Why Would a 25 Year Old Agency Rebrand Now? After two and a half decades as Frederick Swanston, the founders made the bold move to rebrand as Bosun to better reflect what they’d become. The decision was about more than a new logo. According to Bill, keeping their surnames in the brand felt too self-centered and didn’t reflect the agency’s culture. The rebrand signaled a shift: it’s not about Bill or Scott anymore. It’s about the team, the clients, and the relationships that actually fuel the work. While rebrands often make clients nervous, Bill said the transition was seamless. In fact, many partners celebrated alongside them, proving that strong relationships matter more than the name on the door. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you still thinking of AI as just “ChatGPT with a better prompt”? Or maybe you’ve played around with Zapier automations and thought, yeah, that’s good enough. Today's featured guest knows that the agencies pulling ahead right now are building full-on AI agent networks that replace routine tasks, streamline data pipelines, and give their teams superpowers. She’s re-engineering her agency around AI and will talk about where she finds top-tier talent and why you don’t need to code to lead your agency into the future. Jennifer Bagley is the CEO and founder of CI Web Group, a fully virtual digital marketing agency registered in 22 U.S. states with clients across the United States and Canada. A former corporate operator turned entrepreneur, Jennifer started in real estate and mortgage brokerage before leaning into the marketing work she built to support those businesses. Today she runs a modern, tech-forward agency that’s rebuilt its stack around AI, centralized data, and agentic networks, all while carrying the scars and lessons of scaling, pivoting, and re-founding a business from the ground up. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Feeling trapped by the business. Hiring, firing, and the people reset AI, reskilling, and the end of “middle” roles What does this talent cost? Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. From Corporate Ladder to Accidental Agency Founder Jennifer came from an operations background, a self-proclaimed black belt in Six Sigma and certified project manager. Having built that corporate background, she had made a promise to herself (“by 30 I’ll be an entrepreneur”), and started to build the side hustle that became the main event. She started in real estate and mortgage brokering where she had to learn marketing the hard way; not because she wanted to be a marketer, but because the survival of her businesses depended on it. Initially, Jennifer didn’t set out to build a scalable agency; she built a team to support her broker network. When the market collapsed in 2008, the same team that did marketing for agents suddenly had a market outside real estate. That “we’ll just help this painter or HVAC company” phase is where the web group was born: small, service-focused, and useful to people in her network. That accidental turn became a business by solving real, pressing problems for paying clients, then leaned into that. Trading Time for Freedom: The Hard Pivot For the first five years, Jennifer describes the business as a “lifestyle” operation, profitable maybe, but trapping her time. She was trading billable hours for income and was reaching her limit when she hired a coach that forced a reckoning: if entrepreneurship isn’t buying you time, money, and freedom, what’s the point? So she made the brutal choice of cutting consulting contracts and burning the bridge to the “safety” of hourly work, and effectively gave herself a mulligan. This is the classic founder pivot: you have to choose between growth that keeps you doing the work and growth that scales the business without you. Jennifer’s reset wasn’t pretty, for a while she lost everything and she and her son lived in an office for a while, but it bought her the permission to build something salable, not just sustainable. Agency owners who feel trapped in delivery need to remember that sometimes you have to give up short-term revenue to create long-term value. Feeling Trapped by the Agency and Becoming a CEO Those first five years, Jennifer continued to run a business that started as a supply chain consulting and eventually turned into a sales supply chain consulting. This change meant the business was now a good lead generator for the agency but it also meant Jennifer was essentially selling her image and her time. Until she ran out of time. Once she felt trapped by the business, Jennifer actually hired a business coach that helped her change the model from “selling Jennifer with marketing on the side” to an actual sustainable business. She had to go back to the basics and remember she, like every entrepreneur, started the business with the idea of having more time, money, and freedom. It took losing everything, but Jennifer knew she didn’t want a lifestyle business, she wanted a sellable business. The antidote was delegation plus systems. If you want growth and a future exit, you need to own those CEO responsibilities and be comfortable with letting go of the day-to-day. Hiring, Firing, and Resetting the Team Jennifer’s talent strategy has evolved with each stage of growth. Her early hires were the classic “friends, family, fools” bootstrap crew; later she invested in developers, content teams, project managers, and over time, more strategic hires like CFOs, chief of staff, BI teams, and AI engineers. Each five-year arc brought a new set of needs and a new level of sophistication in hiring. Now, she divides her time between promoting her agency’s work in podcasts and content and thinking of ways to navigate her business in these volatile and exciting times. Her most recent addition to the team was a technology and transformation team that is revisiting all of the agency’s processes, investments, and infrastructure. As a result, she has downsized her team from over 300 W2 employees and refocus the team. The takeaway for agency owners: be honest about whether your people are builders or maintainers, and hire accordingly. The workforce you need for growth is not the same as the workforce you need for stable operations. Building AI Agent Networks with Centralized Data Jennifer’s agency shifted from WordPress to Webflow and built agentic networks: hundreds of AI agents that crawl competitors, do strategy homework, and automate tasks that humans used to do. More importantly, they rebuilt infrastructure into a hub-and-spoke model with a centralized min.io data layer and ETL pipelines feeding analytics and BI. Two big lessons here. One: invest in your tech stack deliberately so you’re not a Frankenstein of five different platforms that don’t talk to each other. Two: design your data architecture so your people (and your AI agents) have a single source of truth. That’s how you get from fire-fighting in six dashboards to proactive, predictive signals that tell you when a client engagement needs attention. AI, Reskilling, and Shrinking Middle Roles Jennifer draws a hard line: the agency now tends to hire either very seasoned client-facing leaders or AI engineers; the middle is shrinking. With agentic networks giving junior staff “superpowers,” the agency can afford fewer mid-level “lever pullers.” At this level there’s no room for slow execution or elementary work. That’s a cultural and ethical challenge, both for hiring and for workforce development. For agency owners, this raises practical HR questions: do you reskill your people, or replace them? Jennifer suggests building agent-driven systems that augment humans, and being brutally honest about who can grow into that future. It’s also a call to action for how we prepare the next generation: schools won’t teach this; companies will need to. Playing with AI Platforms: Why Leaders Need to Just Know Enough to Be Dangerous Jennifer started like a lot of agency owners dipping into AI, playing around on tools like n8n, Make.com, Relevance, and Longchain. Her dev team laughed, calling her an “elementary school kid on a tricycle,” but here’s the point: she didn’t need to master the tech. She needed to know enough to point her team in the right direction. Instead of obsessing over code, she framed the problem differently: “Here’s what I don’t want a human doing anymore. Can you make that happen?” That mindset shift is key for agency owners. You don’t need to be a full-stack AI engineer to lead an agency into the future; you just need to clearly define outcomes and invest in people who can deliver them. Find Real AI Talent in Unlikely Places This is where most agencies get stuck. You’re not going to find your next AI architect on Upwork. Jennifer leaned on her network, starting with her cousin Chris, a hardcore developer who initially thought AI platforms were “rookie business.” Once Chris realized the power of agentic networks to scale his expertise, he became the backbone of CI Web Group’s transformation. Now, she hunts talent in unconventional places: hackathons, LinkedIn, and especially YouTube. Forget the flashy “10x growth hack” videos — she looks for nerds with four views, geeking out about orchestrators and ETL pipelines. Those are the builders who care about solving real problems, not just building hype. Her tip: if you find one, reach out immediately. They don’t want sales, they just want to build. Designing AI Agents Like an Agency Org Chart Jennifer compares AI agents to a company org chart. You don’t hire one person to do everything, that’s a recipe for burnout. Same thing with AI. Each agent should tightly focus on a single task, with checks, auditors, and orchestrators overseeing the system. The payoff was massive efficiency gains. Instead of six different platforms that don’t talk, her agency built a centralized hub with min.io, ClickHouse, and AI layers on top. That’s how you go from patchwork automation to true predictive intelligence. The Real Cost of AI Talent If you’re wondering how much this all costs, the answer is… a lot. On the high end, seasoned AI engineers can run you a quarter million in salary. On the low end, Jennifer tests new hires on project-based sprints, maybe $6K for a 10-hour challenge. The point isn’t to cut costs; it’s to prov

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What does it really look like when employees step up to buy the agency they’ve helped run for years? Today's featured guest will share how she and her partners carried forward the 30-year legacy of an agency founded in the days of print and stamp, a business that has not only survived but thrived through three different ownership handoffs. You’ll hear how they transitioned from licking envelopes to leading digital campaigns, navigated buying the business during COVID, and tackled the imposter syndrome that comes with suddenly being “the boss.” If you’ve ever thought about selling your agency, or buying one, this conversation is packed with lessons on culture, succession, and keeping an agency alive for the long haul. Alyssa Ash is one of the principals and co-owners of AOR, a creative and digital agency focused on branding, marketing, and web, with a strong focus on real estate development, municipalities, and economic development projects. Think housing solutions, community connections, and projects that shape cities—that’s their sweet spot. Alyssa and her two business partners are the third generation of owners keeping AOR alive since its founding in 1992. A rare kind of legacy in agency land. In this episode, we’ll discuss: How employees can be groomed into ownership. Lessons from buying an agency during COVID. Why imposter syndrome is normal (and even healthy). Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. A Legacy of Print and Culture Back in ’92, AOR wasn’t cranking out websites or SEO strategies. It was the time of print design, direct mail, licking stamps, and die-cut lounge chair mailers that made people long-time clients. It’s not common that an agency that gets acquired lives on like this, but the founders had built something special. Each generation of owners didn’t just grow the client list—they protected the culture. When the founders sold 13 years after starting the business, keeping that culture intact was non-negotiable. Fast forward again, and Alyssa’s crew inherited not just an agency, but a philosophy: honor the people and the community as much as the work. Transitioning from Employee to Owner Unlike an outside buyer swooping in with an SBA loan, Alyssa and her partners were homegrown leaders. They’d each put in 10–15 years, running departments in strategy, sales, and operations. By the time the second set of owners started floating the idea of selling, the trio was already running day-to-day operations. At first, the conversation was casual, “Would you even want to own the agency someday?”, but over time it got real. The financial side was initially not even part of the conversation, although they did give a reasonable runway of five to ten years for the acquisition to happen. The fact that three of them shared the load made the acquisition possible. While the thought was intimidating at first, the gradual handoff built their confidence. By the time the deal closed, ownership felt less like a leap and more like the next natural step. Navigating an Agency Acquisition During COVID If you’ve ever thought about buying or selling an agency, you know the financing part can get tricky. For Alyssa and her partners, COVID hit right in the middle of negotiations. On one hand, this made it somehow easier for her and her partners to step even more into their roles as heads of the agency. While the owners stepped back from daily operations, Alyssa and her partners made the transition to their new roles. On the other hand, the pandemic did complicate things as SBA loans looked risky with interest rates climbing. Thankfully, the old owners worked out a five-year owner-financed note instead. That decision didn’t just save them financially, it cemented trust. The outgoing owners wanted the next generation to succeed and structured the deal so everyone won. As Alyssa put it, “It didn’t feel like a big shift… because we’d already been doing it.” Fighting Imposter Syndrome (and Why That’s Healthy) Even with 15 years in the trenches, Alyssa admits stepping into ownership brought its fair share of imposter syndrome. She was still quite young, even though she felt comfortable leading day-to-day operations. This is where the former owner’s trust really helped. They put her in a position to succeed and trusted she could make it. Ultimately, every agency owner feels that, no matter the stage of their career they’re at when becoming an owner. In fact, it’s the ones who don’t who usually get tripped up by ego. Preparing the Next Generation So, is Alyssa grooming her team for eventual ownership? Not yet, it’s too soon. But she is watching for the traits that made her and her partners natural fits: entrepreneurial thinking, leadership instincts, and a bias for taking responsibility. Her advice to other agency owners thinking about succession: Don’t overlook your employees as potential buyers. Give them time and a runway to grow into the role. Protect your culture by keeping it in the hands of people who already live it. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners stumble into their first business almost by accident, learning as they go. But have you ever considered buying your first agency as a way to enter the industry with a head start? The right acquisition can give you an established team eager to keep growing, a base of engaged clients, and strong positioning in the market. Today’s featured guest took this path and is now the proud owner of a thriving agency. He always knew he wanted to run his own business, and when it came time to choose an industry, the agency model was the perfect fit for his love of project management and tech. He shares how he chose and purchased his agency, why he was fortunate to instantly click with the previous owner, the kind of deal structure he recommends for these situations, and the lessons he’s learned along the way. Zander Barth is the Director of Colophon New Media, a website development and digital marketing agency in Charleston, South Carolina. He isn’t your typical agency owner since he didn’t start his agency from scratch. Before that, he was managing boiler houses and wastewater plants as a chemical engineer. His path went from factory floors and Tesla consulting gigs to agency owner. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why buy instead of build an agency from scratch? Retaining clients and culture in an ownership transition. Acquisition deal structure: earnouts, financings, and gotchas. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Buy vs Build: Why Acquistion Wins Most agency stories start the same way: someone freelances, gets referrals, and suddenly they’re running an agency. Not Zander. Having always wanted to work for himself, he was set on finding a business to acquire after realizing he didn’t want to stay in the corporate grind. Instead of an MBA, he gave himself what he calls a “redneck MBA”—a crash course in QuickBooks, masterclasses, and every free course he could get his hands on. His search started broad. He looked at electrical contractors, engineering firms, and everything in between. But when a broker introduced him to Colophon New Media, something clicked. The agency world lined up with his love for project management, customer communication, and tech. He hit it off with the founder, who was ready to retire, and within four months, Zander was under a Letter of Intent (LOI). The Transition: Keeping Clients and Culture Intact One of the biggest risks in buying an agency is losing clients or losing the team. But Zander got lucky. The founder stayed on for six months to ease the transition, the team had incredible tenure (average of 8–10 years), and clients stuck around. Instead of turnover chaos, he stepped into a culture that was already strong. What he focused on was core values. He knew the agency’s success was built on the team’s shared beliefs and long-term commitment. His goal: protect that culture while adding new faces who align with it. Processes and systems matter, but at the end of the day, it’s the people and values that keep clients around. The Deal: No Earnout, Straightforward SBA Financing Zander’s purchase deal was simple: 10% equity down 10% seller note 80% SBA loan (7A) No earnout. Was it risky? Maybe. But for him, it worked because he and the seller had great rapport. They respected each other, and shared the goal of keeping clients happy and the agency thriving. However, Zander is very aware of how lucky he was and that is not always the case. So his advice for agency owners is to structure the deal in a way that people are incentivized to help the business grow after they’re gone. Pro tip: Before buying, always ask the seller why they’re really selling. Burnout, boredom, or just wanting to hit the road in an RV with their spouse - it all matters. If their motivations align with your vision, you’ve got a shot at a smooth handoff. Surprises, Gotchas, and the Role of Luck in Acquisition Every acquisition has surprises. For Zander, it wasn’t massive skeletons in the closet but rather small bits of “tribal knowledge” that came up months later. Old client quirks, history buried deep, the stuff you don’t see in due diligence. His mindset was just to roll with it. “I just try to get good at riding the wave,” he said. And he’s honest about it: luck played a big role. You can prep all you want, but signing a deal that puts you on the hook for big debt is scary. You’ve got to trust your gut on the seller and back yourself to figure out the rest. Zander’s advice is to make sure you vibe with the seller. As odd as it sounds, there’s nothing more important in his experience than feeling he was able to truly understand the seller. He wanted someone who was really proud of their legacy and willing to grow and protect it. How AI is Shaping M&A and Agency Operations Back when he bought the agency, Zander was still not using AI in both due diligence and agency work. Now, however, he’s building “co-pilot bots” to analyze data, troubleshoot, and even stress-test M&A opportunities. His advice for other agency owners: if you’re not using AI daily, you’re leaving efficiency—and insights—on the table. AI won’t always 100% right, but it gets you thinking differently. For M&A especially, tools like ChatGPT can surface blind spots you didn’t even know existed. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Is hiring one of the biggest challenges you’ve faced when it comes to running your agency? How do you sift through hundreds of applications when most don’t even read the job description? Today’s featured guest opens up about the realities of building a team, the role that gave him his time back, and why finding the right people, not unicorns, but the right fits can make or break an agency’s growth. Dan Salganik is the managing partner and CEO of VisualFizz, a Chicago-based digital full-service marketing agency. He spent years working at agencies of every size and learning of the many flaws in their operations: bloated overhead, work designed more to win awards than to serve clients, and inefficiencies everywhere. Instead of sticking it out, he decided to try something different. With the help of a co-founder he met online, he turned his freelance gig into an actual business. Within nine days of their first conversation, they had their first paying client. Once they were at three clients, they decided it was time to make it official and started VisualFizz. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The digital nomad myth. Hiring as the biggest challenge for agency success. The unicorn problem. Why the big guys should be worried. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Inspired to Create Something Better After Working With The Big Guys Dan’s path into agency life started straight out of college, working at agencies as a project manager. He saw how the big guys worked and was frustrated by the waste. Expensive office space downtown, teams focused on portfolio-building instead of client results, and layers of inefficiency that didn’t make sense to him. After a layoff, he started contracting and freelancing. After a while, he figured if he was already selling his time, why not build a team and sell more than just his own hours? Partnering with a co-founder who brought SEO and paid search chops, he launched VisualFizz for just $50 and a “crappy logo.” The Digital Nomad Myth At first, Dan thought the digital nomad lifestyle was going to be the dream. He traveled through Asia, working out of hostels, hopping on 2 a.m. client calls from rooftop hotels, and running projects with a global team scattered across South Africa, Kuwait, and the U.S. It sounded cool on paper—but the reality was brutal. Trying to serve U.S. clients while living 12 hours ahead was a recipe for burnout. As he put it, “If you’re traveling to Southeast Asia and trying to hit U.S. hours, you’re in for a rude awakening.” Over time, he realized international travel had to shift into more realistic time zones if he wanted to scale the agency. From Scrappy Start to Scaling Smart VisualFizz didn’t take off by accident. From the beginning, Dan and his co-founder knew they wanted more than just a freelancing partnership. She had the technical expertise, he had the business and sales skills, and together they leaned into that divide. Their first clients came on at around $2,500/month retainers, which felt big at the time. But what really set them apart was their willingness to sell the agency model—not just themselves as individual contractors. Dan admits the early days were DIY to the extreme. He designed the first website, created the brand, and hustled every step of the way. But over time, they shifted from being “just two freelancers” into a legit business with structure, processes, and a growing client roster. Why Hiring is Always the Hardest Part Dan didn’t hesitate when asked about the hardest part of running an agency: hiring. In a business where you’re selling knowledge and time, having the right people is everything. And finding those people can be tough, especially for smaller agencies. Posting a single job ad often results in 700 to 1,500 applications—most of which are noise. Dan prefers entrepreneurial-minded hires over candidates with perfect credentials. He values people who can adapt, who want to learn, and who bring a cultural fit to the table. That’s how he’s built a team that can handle change in an industry that shifts constantly. Like most founders, Dan has had terrible interview experiences with candidates who applied mindlessly as soon as they saw an opening and didn’t bother to read anything about the profile required. People were showing up to interviews while in their card eating, not even knowing the company’s name, and clearly not having the skills required. If you’ve ever found yourself in this position, overwhelmed by resumes and constantly interviewing the wrong people, bury a hidden instruction in your job post, like requiring a candidate to send a video with a specific subject line to a private email. The people who follow directions prove they’re serious. The rest self-select out, saving you hours of wasted interviews Tired of the fancy resumes and disastrous interviews, Dan has turned to his contractors. He’s hired people who had contracted with the agency for years, which of course had the advantage of already understanding their capabilities and knowing they were up to the task. Furthermore, Dan considers himself to be very fiscally conservative when it comes to hiring, so he prefers working with the person until he feels he can comfortably hire them to be a full-time team member. The Hire That Changed Everything For Dan, the biggest game-changer was bringing in a project manager who grew into a project lead. Having someone who could take ownership of processes, build out SOPs, and even tell him to log off at 6 p.m. gave him the space to focus on the bigger picture, strategy, branding, and biz dev. The right project manager isn’t just checking boxes. They protect your time. They let you walk into client conversations clear-headed instead of stressed about whether a deliverable is behind. When they can run the team and operations, you can finally do the job of a CEO: winning new business and setting the direction of the agency. Stop Chasing Unicorn Hires What’s the next hire on Dan’s list? A hybrid between a campaign strategist and a creative marketing manager. Someone who can think strategically, get hands-on with campaigns, and still spot when an SEO report doesn’t make sense to a client. Sounds great but also sounds like a unicorn. As most agency owners eventually learn: unicorn hires exist, but you can’t build a hiring strategy around finding them. Instead, hire clearly defined roles—project managers who love execution, account managers who thrive on client leadership. When you stumble across someone who can flex across lanes, great. But don’t make that the expectation. How to Train Your Team to Sell Naturally Dan’s agency doesn’t run with a traditional account manager structure. Their PMs double as client leads, which means Dan had to find a way to make sales training part of the culture without turning his team into pushy salespeople. The secret to this training is storytelling. Instead of saying, “Hey, we can upsell you,” his team learns to connect client comments with relevant success stories. If a client mentions running a content audit, a PM can naturally suggest looping in the SEO lead, not because they’re chasing revenue but because they know it will help the client. Over time, this approach builds trust and positions the agency as a partner, not just a vendor. Positioning in a Shifting Market Dan has seen client expectations are moving “down a notch” lately. Big brands that once chased Ogilvy or Leo Burnett are now hunting for mid-sized partners. Those mid-sized companies are shifting to smaller shops. And boutique agencies like VisualFizz are landing $100–500 million clients who want to be a top priority instead of client number 142 on a massive roster. It’s the boutique hotel effect. Clients don’t always want the 3,000-room resort. Sometimes they want the place where the staff knows their name, treats them like the biggest deal in the building, and still delivers world-class service. For smaller agencies, that’s a huge opportunity to win the types of clients that used to feel out of reach. Why Lean Agencies Have the Edge The future isn’t kind to bloated agencies. What used to take 100 people a few years ago could now be done with 40, or even 15. Large firms with huge overhead and outdated models will struggle unless they pivot, merge, or find a vertical niche. Meanwhile, smaller and mid-sized agencies that can move fast, price smart, and deliver with a lean team are better positioned than ever. As Dan put it, even Fortune 500 companies are asking, “Why should I pay $50k a month for SEO when I can get the same expertise at $8k?” Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Ever feel like running your agency is just one long grind of “good enough” projects, endless deadlines, and late-night work sessions? Most agency owners start out chasing freedom, only to find themselves trapped by clients, culture challenges, and their own workaholic habits. Today’s featured guest is certainly familiar with this cycle, so how was he able to build a business that works for him instead of the other way around? By focusing on clarity, culture, and constant evolution. Dan Fisher is the founder of Bottle Rocket Media, a Chicago-based video production and digital marketing firm. Before running his agency, Dan spent a decade in television, including a long stretch as an editor at The Oprah Winfrey Show. What started as “making a few videos for people” turned into a full-fledged agency after his partner joined. Today, Bottle Rocket Media blends storytelling with digital strategy to help brands communicate with impact. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Data meets creativity. The agency he “thought he should build” Culture as a compass. Redefining work and energy. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Leaving TV for Agency Life Dan wasn’t setting out to build an agency. He was a New York kid, worked on TV production in LA, and then got tapped on the shoulder for a gig at Oprah. When he landed in Chicago, he figured he’d be there a couple of years. Ten years later, he had a family, a house, and roots that weren’t going anywhere. After leaving TV (not a moment too soon, according to him), he just started making videos for people. Then his partner came on board, and suddenly it was more than a side hustle. It was a real business. That’s when Dan realized he was no longer just a TV guy—he was running an agency. What TV Taught Him About Storytelling TV wasn’t all glitz. Dan loved the storytelling, the cameras, the lights. However, running a daily show can crush even the strongest souls. Deadlines piled on top of deadlines. Three to four episodes a week meant three to four immovable deadlines every week. Still, it gave him his 10,000 hours. He learned how to tell stories fast, direct, edit, and manage creative teams. Most importantly, TV taught Dan the importance of knowing your audience. At Oprah, there was always an “audience of one”—Oprah herself. He’d have the version he wanted to tell, and then the version she’d actually approve. That lesson carried into agency life: storytelling isn’t about you, it’s about your client. You’re not making an indie film; you’re telling their story in a way that serves their brand. The Continual Evolvement of Creativity Bottle Rocket Media isn’t trying to be Hollywood. They focus on nonfiction storytelling, documentary-style content, education-driven pieces, spokespeople, and commercial spots. What makes their approach stand out is how they marry creative instincts with marketing data. Working in the creative field never ceases to surprise Dan who, even now, expects something to land well with audiences and sees the complete opposite happen. This is why he and his team lean into A/B testing. Sometimes it’s the tiniest tweak: a subject line in an email, a color shift in a graphic, or moving the ending to the front of a video. It’s a reminder agency owners need: you can be confident in your craft, but the market has the final say. From Filmmaker to CEO When he started, Dan assumed he’d be miserable doing the “operations” side. But mentoring, managing, and building a team turned out to be just as rewarding as calling “action” and “cut.” He’s learned the balance between doing and teaching. Having 10,000 hours of experience doesn’t mean you always tell the story better than a fresh intern. It means you know how to refine, manipulate, and see perspectives others might miss. At Bottle Rocket Media, they encourage collaboration. Editors critique each other’s work. Ideas bounce around. And Dan stays focused on a critical question every creative leader should ask: Am I making it better, or just making it different? From “Good Enough” to Defining Excellence It took Dan years to reach what he calls his maturity, after trying to be “the agency he thought he should be”. Eventually, after banging his head against the wall for a long time, he realized the power of clarity—both personally and professionally. He started the business as a way to make ends meet after leaving TV, but it was time to define his goals with the agency and make it his own. Once he stopped chasing someone else’s model and leaned into his own strengths, everything changed. The real turning point wasn’t in working harder, but in defining what success actually looked like for him and his team. Culture as a Compass Clarity doesn’t just guide you, it’s also something you can instill in your team. Once Dan started defining his agency’s beliefs, he could attract people who truly fit. To him, if your team is not going in the same direction, then what’s the point? But culture hasn’t been easy, especially post-pandemic. Bottle Rocket Media runs on a hybrid model: three mandatory in-office days, with Mondays and Fridays remote. For Dan, it was about letting go of his old Gen X “first one in, last one out” mentality and adapting to a younger workforce. The result is a stronger, more unified team—even if they’re not physically together every day. Redefining Work and Energy Coming from TV, where it’s not rare to work up to 70 hours a week, Dan initially started his agency using the volume model, which is what he knew. Once the business was up and running, his hours were still pretty similar to what he was used in TV. Eventually, however, it got to a point where a trusted employee expressed he was at his breaking point, and Dan knew it was time to dial down. Working beyond a certain limit didn’t make him better, it was just making him an ineffective leader. That shift changed how he managed his team, starting by cutting off the bottom 20% and elevating the types of projects they do. This way, with clear goals and clear deadlines, he’s building the kind of leadership that creates loyalty and sustainability. Always Be Evolving The agency game changes daily. Right now, AI is shaking up video and digital marketing. What worked yesterday won’t always work tomorrow. If you want your agency to survive, curiosity is the ultimate skill. Test, adapt, and don’t get too comfortable. That philosophy is why Dan’s agency has evolved from purely video into a full digital offering. On the video side, he had to learn how to let go and empower others. On the digital side, he leans entirely on his team’s expertise. In both cases, growth depends on staying open to new approaches and trusting the right people to execute them. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you wondering how AI will really change the way agencies work? Will it replace your team, or make them better than ever? Artificial intelligence continues to be at the forefront of most tech conversations, and that’s exactly why agency owners can’t afford to ignore it. Today’s guest believes the real future of AI in agencies isn’t about replacement—it’s about augmentation. Humans bring the high-leverage ideas, AI scales the execution, and the magic happens in the collaboration between the two. That’s why he challenges his team to master a skill first—understanding every step—before delegating pieces of it to AI. By doing so, they not only achieve stronger results but also gain the ability to explain, teach, and refine the process. For agencies, this thoughtful integration turns AI from a threat into a powerful accelerator. Josh Payne is a serial entrepreneur and the founder of Coframe, which helps businesses continuously optimize their digital experiences. Before that, he co-founded Autograph, scaling it to unicorn status within just over a year, and previously sold his first company, AccessBell, to India’s Tata Group. A Stanford AI researcher and occasional lecturer, Josh has blended tech, entrepreneurship, and big-name partnerships into a career full of lessons that agency owners can apply to their own journey. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The power of just asking. Should we be worried about AI? Why the human element still wins. When AI shows empathy. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Building Big, Fast (and What Comes After) Josh’s first exit was AccessBell, acquired by Tatai Group. Then came Autograph, the NFT platform co-founded with connections in the entertainment industry that quickly attracted celebrities and athletes like Tom Brady. The company went unicorn in about a year, proof that timing, partnerships, and execution can fuel explosive growth. But Josh is quick to admit that pace sets a dangerous bar. When he launched Coframe, progress felt slower. The natural question arises: why am I not going as fast as I did last time? For any agency owner who’s had one “big win,” the fear of never matching that level again is real. For Josh, it comes down to stop chasing vanity metrics and focusing on the real value you’re creating. The long burn, when tied to a larger vision, often builds a stronger foundation. The Power of Just Asking One of the best stories from Josh’s Autograph journey was how Tom Brady got involved. It was a simple conversation, made possible because a co-founder’s family knew Brady. They took a shot, asked for a call, and suddenly, an NFL legend wasn’t just an investor—he was a co-founder. They were, of course, very lucky, but the lesson for Josh was that you’ll never land your dream client (or partner) if you don’t step up to bat. Too many agencies convince themselves certain clients are “out of reach,” when in reality, decision-makers are more approachable than you think. Even the busiest people have time for the right conversation if you show up as a person, not a pitch machine. Separating Yourself from Your Business Identity With all these exits, Josh is still struggling with the identity crisis that comes with selling or stepping away from a company. Like Jason back when he sold his agency, Josh felt like he’d sold his soul and is still wrestling with how to separate being a tech founder from just being Josh. Your business is not your identity, as performance coach Todd Herman (the guy behind Kobe Bryant’s “Black Mamba” alter ego) helped Jason understand. You’re not an “agency owner” by identity. You’re a creator, innovator, and strategist. Those traits travel with you into whatever you do next. Lose the label, keep the essence. Fighting the Metrics Spiral Every agency owner knows the feeling: dashboards screaming that you’re 30% down from last month, the creeping panic that you’re “slipping.” Josh admits he’s guilty of chasing these vanity metrics too, and it’s exhausting. The problem is that short-term sprints cloud the long-term vision. But focusing only on the long-term isn’t right either. You can’t sit back dreaming and stop executing. Josh calls it a balance game. Some days require in-the-weeds execution. Other days call for pulling up to 30,000 feet and resetting the vision. And finding ways to get into that higher-level thinking state is crucial. Finding Flow and Big Picture Clarity One of Josh’s surprising hacks for perspective is the float tank, a sensory deprivation chamber where you float weightless in silence. He describes it as being suspended between sleep and wakefulness, giving him the clarity to see the forest instead of the trees. For him, a float every couple of months resets his ability to think deeply. This lucid dreaming state allows him to consciously control his thought process, which is hard to do on a day-to-day basis. There are different ways to achieve this “flow state” like flying planes or running, where focus on the task at hand frees the brain to process ideas in the background. The lesson for agency owners is that you need intentional “out of the weeds” time. Whether it’s floating, running, or flying, find your version of the float tank. Should We Be Worried About AI? Where is AI really going, and should agencies be worried? Josh approaches the subject with cautious optimism. He admits there are possible negative outcomes—whole essays have been written about the risks—but he believes society still has control of its destiny. Governance, adaptation, and human ingenuity will help us navigate the “intelligence explosion” ahead. For agency owners, that perspective matters. The fear-driven narrative (“AI will replace us all”) misses the more useful question: how do we adapt to stay ahead? Josh’s view is that AI will become a force multiplier, but only for those who deeply understand their craft first. At Coframe, he leads his team with the mantra: “first we are artisans, then we are automators.” Josh encourages his team to master processes as humans before trying to automate them. An artisan, he says, is someone who not only performs a task with taste and skill but can also teach it to an apprentice. If you can teach it, you can usually train AI to do it too. This is a powerful framework for agencies. Too many people treat AI as a magic shortcut, asking it to “do the thing” without knowing what “the thing” really requires. But if you’ve built the human expertise first, AI becomes like a hyper-capable apprentice, great at code generation, design variations, or crunching vast amounts of data, but still lacking the higher-level strategy and creative ideation that only humans can bring. Why the Human Element Still Wins Lots of people are already trying to launch “AI-only agencies.” This is a mistake. Clients don’t just want data or deliverables; they want connection, guidance, and trust. Even as AI accelerates execution, the human side, like the ability to understand a client, guide their decisions, and translate insights into strategy, remains irreplaceable. This is especially true when clients don’t know what to ask. Tools may say, “Ask me anything,” but most business owners don’t even know where to start. That’s where the agency earns its keep: by framing the right questions and then leveraging AI to deliver smarter, faster answers. AI Limitations on Emotion and Empathy Empathy remains the most valuable and, so far, irreplaceable element that AI cannot afford clients, and where human intervention continues to be necessary. However, as these models get more and more aligned, clients are starting to see cases where the AI is able to show empathy for your situation. For instance, Jason recently tested AI with his own medical challenges. After foot surgery complications, he uploaded photos of his wound to an AI tool and was surprised at how sympathetic the responses felt. It wasn’t just giving data—it was offering encouragement, warnings, and even emergency advice when he tested it with old images. Josh had his own example: experimenting with fasting while using AI to predict weight loss. The model gave estimates but also warned him about the risks and refused to encourage unsafe behavior. Modern models are being trained not just for accuracy but to reflect human values, to ensure they’re aligned with human interests. Balancing AI Alignment With Performance This fine-tuning process with newer AI models makes them more positive and empathetic. But there’s a trade-off: aligned models can lose some raw performance on benchmarks. For agencies, this means two things: AI tools will continue evolving in personality and usefulness. The best results will still come from humans who know how to wield them—pairing empathy, strategy, and creativity with AI’s speed and scale. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.  

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you stuck acting like an order taker instead of leading your clients with strategy? If you want to grow an agency that survives the competition, you need to do more than deliver pretty websites or manage ad budgets. You need to lead with strategy, prove it with data, and guide your clients through the journey—not the other way around. Too many agencies are still making decisions based on “gut feelings” instead of data, which is why today’s featured guest is tackling exactly that problem—making it easier for everyone in a company to use data daily, so decisions are grounded in reality, not instinct. Pete Caputa is the CEO of Databox, a business intelligence platform built for small to mid-market companies that makes data adoption simple across teams. Before that, Pete spent nine years at HubSpot, where he famously launched and scaled the agency partner program—now responsible for billions in revenue. But Pete’s journey didn’t start in SaaS boardrooms. He began as an engineer, dabbled in early 2000s web apps after learning to code, and struggled through the grind of bootstrapping. his own ventures. A key pivot came when he connected with sales coach Rick Rober, who helped him sharpen his sales chops. That path eventually led him to HubSpot as the fourth sales rep and later, the architect behind the company’s groundbreaking agency channel. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Creating the HubSpot Agency Partner Program. Why agencies need to lead with strategy. AI as the new strategic edge. Selling strategy as a service. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. The Birth of the HubSpot Agency Partner Program Early HubSpot sales conversations looked familiar to many agency owners: lots of free education, lots of excitement… and lots of ghosting. Agencies wanted to roll HubSpot out to their clients, but deals rarely closed. Pete recognized the deeper problem —agencies were stuck in project-based work and living on the cash flow rollercoaster. So he set out to teach agencies to package ongoing retainers instead of chasing one-off projects. That simple but powerful shift unlocked stability and scale. Agencies suddenly had recurring revenue, longer-term client relationships, and the ability to deliver compounding value. HubSpot, of course, became the backbone of that service delivery. What started as a scrappy idea became a multi-billion-dollar channel—and one of the most successful agency programs in SaaS history. Leaving HubSpot As HubSpot scaled, so did its internal politics. Pete found himself in the middle of a growing conflict between the direct sales team and the partner channel. Instead of collaborating, the two operated like competing businesses, often clashing at the deal level. Pete saw a solution, but realized implementing it would be painful in company scaling that fast. He eventually stepped away, even though he was responsible for nearly 40% of HubSpot’s revenue at the time. “It got harder to get things done,” he admitted—proof that what works in a startup culture doesn’t always survive as companies mature. The Evolving Challenges for Agencies Back in the early 2000s, agencies had to convince clients digital marketing was worth investing in. SEO, social, and funnels were foreign concepts for most businesses. Agencies had to sell belief before they could sell retainers. Today, the problem isn’t buy-in—it’s competition. Businesses now see digital as essential, but agencies are often commoditized into executing tactics. Instead of being trusted advisors, many find themselves replaceable—either by freelancers, in-house hires, or other agencies that “do the same thing cheaper.” The risk is clear: if you’re not leading clients strategically, you’re just a vendor waiting to be swapped out. Agencies Need to Lead With Strategy Most agencies claim to do strategy, but really, they only use it to justify selling a tactic. Redesigning a website? They’ll run some quick competitor research. Launching content marketing? They’ll whip up a persona doc. But that’s not strategy—it’s sales collateral. Pete is now working on a framework he calls Predictable Scale. It starts with true strategy: competitive research, customer research, defining vision and mission, and setting clear objectives. Only then do tactics come into play. Most agencies don’t put these together in the right sequence and, as a result, get pushed in to executing tactics. For agencies, this is the key to breaking out of the execution box and earning a permanent seat at the table. AI as the New Strategic Edge These days, agencies can leverage AI to accelerate strategy and client service. It can be as simple as using AI to run a SWOT analysis, refine your brand voice, mission and vision, and then taking all the data and use it to create a custom GPT you can run to generate client-facing plans. One mastermind member, Chris Dwyer, took this to the extreme by building a board of AI advisors (finance, marketing, sales, and acquisitions) and saw incredible growth as a result. Pete’s team has also dabbled in this use of AI and created a custom GPT called Pete GPT. They feed in customer interviews, surveys, and Pete’s own writing so the tool can generate content in his voice. Beyond content, AI is speeding up product feedback loops. By connecting call transcripts, chat logs, and support tickets, his product team can instantly spot customer needs and prioritize features—a process that used to take weeks of interviews. Pete also has an AI agent that handles about 50% of his agency’s conversations with prospects and clients, with a customer satisfaction score of 70% so far. For agencies, the message is clear: if you’re not already embedding AI into your workflows, you’re falling behind. Onboarding and Client Retention Still Matter Most Not everything should be automated, however, especially when it comes to onboarding. Onboarding can make or break a client relationship in the first 60 days. Too many agencies rely entirely on Zoom and automation, missing the opportunity to build true connection. “No one meets with clients in person anymore,” he said, and it’s costing them. Some of the most successful agencies in Jason’s mastermind make it a priority to visit new clients in person during the first quarter. That small gesture builds trust, creates deeper bonds, and makes it much harder for clients to churn later. With competition as fierce as it is, going the extra mile in onboarding may be the simplest competitive advantage agencies can claim. Selling Strategy as a Service Pete wrapped up the conversation by introducing Databox’s new program for agencies: business intelligence as a service. Until now, most agencies used Databox to report on campaign performance. But Pete sees a bigger opportunity—helping agencies package BI consulting as a strategic service. Instead of being the vendor that just improves ad ROAS or runs SEO reports, agencies can step up as partners who improve an entire company’s performance. That means quarterly reviews looking not just at marketing metrics, but at sales, ops, finance, and customer success data too. For agencies tired of being “order takers,” this is the chance to finally sell strategy over tactics—and get paid for it. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training If your agency is still saying, “Sure, we can do that” to every client request, you’re already in trouble. AI isn’t coming—it’s here. And it’s gunning for the order takers. The agencies that survive won’t be the button pushers. They’ll be the problem solvers. The strategists. Let’s break down why the old “yes to everything” model is dead—and what to do instead. The Old Way: Execution = Value Back in the day, clients would come in with half-baked ideas, you’d build what they asked for, send an invoice, and move on. That worked when execution was hard and specialized. But now? AI can crank out ad copy, designs, blog posts—even full websites—in under 30 seconds. If your agency’s value is tied to deliverables, you’re already replaceable. The New Way: Sell Outcomes, Not Tasks Here’s what AI can’t do: Diagnose the real problem. Challenge assumptions. Build trust and sell a bigger vision. That’s your edge. Strategic agencies don’t sell websites or ads anymore. They sell clarity. They sell outcomes. They lead the client to where they actually need to go. Think about surgeons or lawyers. They don’t ask, “So what do you want me to do today?” They diagnose. They prescribe. They lead. Great agencies do the same. Real Proof: Owners Who Made the Shift Derek was stuck running a 7-figure agency that was plateauing. He and his team were working themselves into the ground for less and less money. Once he niched down and repositioned as a leader in his space, everything changed. Within a year, he scaled to eight figures. Jack almost shut down his agency before using the Agency Playbook to get clarity, reposition, and dominate his niche. Today, he runs a multi-million-dollar business. Carl stopped “doing” and started leading. Using our Foot in the Door approach, he landed a $100K cash deal plus a 20% royalty stream. These aren’t outliers. They’re agency owners who stopped being order takers and started being authorities. How to Make the Shift Without Burning It All Down You don’t need to fire all your clients and start from scratch. You just need to change how you show up. Stop reacting. Start leading. Don’t ask, “What do you want?” Instead, say, “Here’s what you need, and here’s the proven process to get it.” Get paid for clarity. The Foot in the Door (FITD) system shows you how to charge $2,500+ just for the initial strategy session. Because clarity is valuable—and it positions you as the authority from day one. Audit your model. If you’re stuck or unclear on what to fix next, the Agency Blueprint gives you a custom diagnostic so you know exactly where to focus. Ready to stop being a doer and start being an advisor? Grab the Foot in the Door System here and start getting paid just to pitch. Or if you’re not sure where the gap is, grab your Agency Blueprint here.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Which growth drivers are fueling your agency right now? For today’s featured guest, the answer is clear: thought leadership. It’s the single biggest driver consistently bringing his agency the best opportunities. While it can be difficult to separate genuine impact from vanity metrics, the deliberate effort to position both himself and his agency as industry experts has proven invaluable for growth. But building that kind of authority doesn’t happen by accident. It requires intentional work—stepping onto stages at conferences, showing up in interviews and podcasts, and, just as importantly, encouraging your team to create and share content of their own. In this conversation, he breaks down the strategies that help expand thought leadership beyond the founder, and why agency leaders must remember: expertise is a long game, one that compounds over time to deliver lasting results. Chris Long is the VP of Marketing at Go Fish Digital, a full-service digital marketing agency specializing in SEO, paid media, and content marketing. Over the past 3–4 years, Chris has been leading the charge on marketing and sales for the agency, driving new business growth and experimenting with different channels to see what really works. Spoiler alert: it’s not just ads or conferences—it’s something much bigger. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Thought leadership as your agency’s best growth lever. Scaling thought leadership beyond the founder. Building the right systems to encourage your team to create content. Why Content ROI takes patience. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. The Growth Lever Most Agencies Ignore: Thought Leadership Recently, Chris has taken an experimental approach to his agency’s growth, testing growth drivers like Google ads, LinkedIn ads, and conferences, and found that thought leadership consistently stood as the biggest growth drivers; one that couldn’t be replicated. Forget chasing the latest ad hack or praying your next conference booth delivers ROI—what’s consistently driven their biggest, best deals has been showing up as experts in their space. However, thought leadership is hard to measure. It often looks like vanity metrics—views, impressions, shares. But when you zoom out, it’s the stuff that actually moves the needle. The more the agency doubled down on creating content, sharing insights, and putting their expertise out there, the more deals they closed. Not just more deals but better ones, with stronger close rates. If you’re still waiting for the perfect ad funnel to save your pipeline, you might be missing the obvious. Start building your authority in public. Share your wins. Share what you know. Because thought leadership compounds, and that trust is what gets prospects off the fence. Why Expertise is the Foundation You can’t fake thought leadership. It all starts with real expertise. In Chris’ words, “the reason someone’s going to choose an agency, especially as you start to sell larger deals, is they have to be convinced you’re an expert in something.” That doesn’t mean you need to be the everything agency. In fact, the opposite. It could be as narrow as being “the best B2B or SaaS web dev shop.” The point is: prospects need to believe you’ve mastered your corner of the world. That foundation comes from who you hire, the culture you build, and how you innovate—whether that’s through proprietary tools, processes, or just being damn good at your craft. In the case of Go Fish, that expertise showed up in real wins (like when their founders innovated on Geico’s site and saw traffic spike 2,000%). Those moments of innovation fueled content, which positioned the agency as leaders. And that cycle of expertise, innovation, and thought leadership became a growth engine. Scaling Thought Leadership Beyond the Founder In the early days, thought leadership was usually founder-driven. You’re the face, the credibility, the spark. But as Chris points out, that won’t scale. At a certain point, you need the team creating and sharing insights too. For them, that meant encouraging everyone to post, write case studies, and share wins. Sometimes it was as simple as, “Hey, we crushed conversions on this client’s landing page—let’s write about it.” By empowering their team, they kept thought leadership flowing, even as the founders had less time for it. Thought leadership can’t be a one-man show forever. As an agency grows, the founders have less time to spend on the day-to-day operations. If you want authority to scale with your agency, bake it into your culture. Train your team to see insights worth sharing. Make content creation part of the job, not an afterthought. The Biggest Mistake: Not Sharing at All So what do most agencies get wrong? They don’t share anything. Too many people assume, “Everything valuable has already been said.” Or they think their insights aren’t groundbreaking enough. But as Chris points out, “What’s obvious to you isn’t obvious to everyone else.” That’s why simpley sharing SEO best practices on LinkedIn got him traction. What he thought was “table stakes” turned out to be news to his audience. And the more he shared, the more inbound leads followed. If you’re holding back because you don’t think your perspective matters, think again. Your experience has value—even if it feels basic to you. Building Systems for Thought Leadership If you want your team to start sharing their knowledge, you have to get intentional. At Go Fish, they didn’t just hope employees would write content—they built systems: Every new hire had to write two blog posts a year. They tracked contributions in their project management system. They created two career tracks: one managerial, one based on thought leadership as an individual contributor. That last part is huge. By tying thought leadership part of promotions and career growth, they gave employees a real incentive to contribute. Chris himself went from manager (which he admits wasn’t his strong suit) to a senior role via the thought leadership track. The lesson here is that if you want consistent content, make it part of how you hire, measure, and promote. Don’t just “encourage” thought leadership—bake it into the agency’s DNA. The Evolution of Content: From Blogs to Video Back in the early 2010s, blogs were king. One of Go Fish’s founders wrote a massive guide on reputation management on the Moz blog that spun up an entire new agency vertical. That was the play then. Today, however, the game has shifted. According to Chris, video on LinkedIn and Twitter is where the biggest impact happens now. Video humanizes your agency. It takes the mystery away for prospects who are wondering: “Who would I be working with? Are they innovative? Do I trust them?” Webinars have also proven effective—letting people go deeper on topics, showcase expertise, and generate leads from long-form content. But the principle stays the same: meet people where they are, with content that builds authority. The Patience Tax: Why Content ROI Takes Years With content creation, you can’t expect results in six months. Here’s the brutal truth: content is a long game. To do content you can’t think even on seeing results in six months. It may take years. Chris has gotten clients that thought about him when they needed an agency because they saw him speak at a conference two years prior. ROI doesn’t always show up on a quarterly P&L—it compounds over years. The same goes for video content. Rarely does someone listen to one episode and instantly buy. Instead, they binge for months or years before making a move. That’s why consistency matters more than intensity. As Chris said: “I post every day, whether I feel inspired or not. It’s about the habit.” If you’re evaluating content success after three or six months, you’re cutting yourself off too early. Play the two-year game. The deals waiting for you are bigger than the “quick wins” most agencies chase. Consistency compounds. Virality is a bonus, not the goal. Strong Opinions and Deep Dives Win Attention So what type of content catches people’s attention? On social media, where everyone seems to be shouting the same advice over and over, you can’t be afraid to stand out. Take a stance. Neutral content gets ignored. As Chris points out: “Strong takes do well because people either comment to agree or argue. Either way, the algorithm loves it.” Go deep. Technical, niche content might feel too in-the-weeds, but it builds trust. Posts dissecting patents, experiments, or tools often outperform fluff. You may not think that really long niche content could do well, but people will absolutely watch a three-hour tutorial that proves a creator’s expertise—and will come out trusting them more. This is the heart of thought leadership: demonstrating expertise in public. Clients don’t want generalists. They want to see you know your stuff, inside and out. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you an agency owner chasing the $1 million mark, believing that milestone will finally transform your business? Today’s featured guest once felt the same way—until he got there and discovered it was all a myth. Hitting seven figures looked like success on paper, but behind the scenes he was burning himself out just to keep things afloat. In this episode, he reveals the processes that helped him escape no man’s land, the critical lessons he learned about hiring, and the one thing he would do differently if he had the chance to start over. Justin Rashidi is the CEO and co-founder of SeedX, where he leads data-driven marketing strategy and operations. Justin never planned to start an agency, but what started as a tutoring gig in New York soon turned into a full-blown business. After getting past some common agency growth hurdles, he’ll share what he’s learned on overcoming no man’s land, hiring, why he thinks like a SaaS founder when it comes to running his agency, and more. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Don’t fall for the million-dollar myth. Why growing fast was a problem and how he would change it. Hiring? Don’t go for the entrepreneur type. Getting beyond ‘no man’s land’. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. When “The Side Thing” Has the Potential to Become a Growing Business Justin grew up in a family where being a doctor, lawyer, or engineer was the gold standard. Entrepreneurship wasn’t even on his radar. After moving to New York and starting a tutoring company, he realized business was way more fun than he expected. That small company eventually led him into freelancing—websites, marketing, whatever clients needed. The real turning point came when he and his now-wife recognized that the “side thing” they kept ignoring was actually worth building. Instead of just coasting from project to project, they doubled down and started turning Seedex into a functional, growing organization. The Million-Dollar Myth Hitting the million-dollar mark sounds like the dream milestone for agency owners. Justin admits he thought so too… until he actually got there three years into the business. In reality, it was one of the hardest stages of growth. At that point, your agency looks successful on paper, but reality tells a different story. You don’t have the capital to hire senior talent. Your team is probably junior and undertrained. Processes are shaky. And you—the founder—are working yourself into the ground to hold it all together. Justin remembers that stage as “a form of hell” that helped him understand why many owners try to sell at one million. He was gaining weight, losing weekends, and burning out fast. Scaling too quickly without solid processes or proper capital can trap you in a worse spot than before. Grow Slower, Build Stronger Looking back, Justin sees one of the biggest problems for his agency was how fast they grew. If he could change anything, he would’ve slowed down growth. That doesn’t sound sexy, but it’s real. At the moment, it felt exciting to see his business grow so much. What he didn’t know, however, was that scaling without processes or capital is like building a skyscraper on quicksand—it looks impressive until it collapses. He recommends two key moves for agency owners chasing growth: Build strong processes first. Make sure you can consistently deliver client success before you pile on more clients. Secure working capital. Don’t wait until you’re desperate for cash to get financing. Get a line of credit while things look good—because once you actually need it, banks disappear. This is one of those lessons that sounds boring… until you’ve lived through the chaos yourself. Thinking About Hiring Entrepreneurs? Justin Says “Just Don’t” Another one of Justin’s biggest realizations after hitting $1 million was that he had pushed the agency as far as his own hustle could take it. Suddenly, growth wasn’t about what he could do—it was about what his team could do. As he put it, “I got myself here, now I have to get the rest of the team here too.” That’s when he realized growth isn’t about finding the right “how,” it’s about finding the right who. That focus on hiring also came with hard lessons, Justin learned what makes an employee succeed or fail within an agency. He also learned the hard way: never hire entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs leave within 6–12 months to chase their own ventures. Instead, hire people who want to grow inside your company, who hold themselves to high standards, and who take ownership of improving processes. Once you have those people, agency life gets a whole lot easier. You’re no longer solving every problem yourself—you’ve got a team that can think, adapt, and solve without you micromanaging. Beyond “No Man’s Land” Every agency owner eventually hits that “no man’s land” stage—the space between $1M and true scale—where everything feels hard. For Justin, it didn’t end with some big breakthrough moment. It faded slowly over time. Piece by piece, things got easier: better operations, employees leveling up, hiring stronger talent, having more capital, and—maybe most importantly—understanding how a business actually functions. That compounding effect created stability. And while he wouldn’t call it easy, he admits the business is way more enjoyable today than it was a few years ago. Numbers Don’t Lie Which KPIs you pay attention to may differ depending on your particular market. When it comes to running SeedX today, Justin thinks like a SaaS founder and focuses a lot on contract retention and contract expansion. He wants zero churn and contracts that expand over time. That’s how you build a healthy, stable agency without constantly chasing short-term clients. On top of that, he keeps a close eye on profit margins - aiming for 20% and runs monthly reviews with a tight bookkeeping process. For some, the more their agency grows the harder it is to maintain margins. In Justin’s case, as his business has grown, their margins have expanded. Why? Because they got better at scoping projects and started moving upmarket to clients who pay properly for expertise. The agency world is full of bad scoping, undercharging, and scope creep. Justin’s team now tracks time, analyzes leakage, and runs post-project reviews to tighten estimates. Raising Prices and Playing to Win One of the most powerful lessons Justin learned once he started tracking these KPIs was the danger of undercharging. Once he was running profitably, he realized he should be charging some clients more, and at this point he was confident enough to go back to clients and renegotiate that rate. In the early days, fear drove pricing. He didn’t think clients would pay more. Now he sees it differently. If a prospect won’t pay what it’s worth, let them go. The client that undercut you will eventually realize they made a mistake—and when they come back into the market, they’ll be ready to pay at the right price. “It’s like a magic $30K shows up,” he says. Since you’re running operations correctly and the time is already committed, that revenue drops straight to the bottom line. That’s the power of pricing confidence. So stop racing to the bottom. Raise your rates, deliver great work, and let the unprofitable clients filter themselves out. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Is your agency’s strategy diversified enough to withstand sudden algorithm changes? Today’s featured guest—an SEO veteran—learned this the hard way. While he focused on client work, his own website grew outdated. Then one Google update hit and overnight his agency lost 80% of its organic traffic, its main source of leads. The agency eventually recovered, but not without leaving him with a powerful lesson: always invest in the three pillars of growth. In this episode, he shares his chaotic first encounter with SEO, the biggest lessons from a long career in the industry, and the “superpower” that helps him better understand and adapt to algorithm shifts. Chris Raulf is the founder of Boulder SEO Marketing and Chris Raulf SEO & AI Consulting. With decades of experience in SEO, dating back to before Google was even called Google, Chris specializes in hyper-focused SEO and content marketing strategies. He’s worked with clients from local startups to major national brands, helping them dominate organic search. Fun fact: Chris is dyslexic and considers it his SEO superpower. In this episode, we’ll discuss: The big mistake that led him to a career in SEO. The day 80% of his organic traffic disappeared. Why he now invests in the three pillars of growth. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. From Big Mistake to a Full-Blown Career in SEO Chris has been in the SEO game since before most of us knew it was a thing. Back in 1995, while working in Switzerland for an American company, he watched the birth of the search engine era. The US branch of the company created something called a “website” and hardcoded German text as images on it. His first “SEO problem” was figuring out how search engines could read that German text. That curiosity grew into a passion, and eventually a full-blown career. Fast forward to today, Boulder SEO Marketing is a hyper-focused SEO agency specializing in content strategies that win. But even with all that experience, Chris learned the hard way that no one is safe from the wrath of a Google core update. The Day Organic Traffic Disappeared In 2021, business was booming. Leads were rolling in purely from organic search. Then, overnight, a Google core algorithm update wiped out about 80% of their organic traffic. Why did this happen? Outdated content. Their own site had gone stale while they focused on client work. For an agency that relied almost entirely on inbound search leads, it was like someone padlocked the front door. Chris could have panicked, but after the initial shock, he collected himself and treated this crisis as an opportunity. He gave himself one weekend to create a comeback plan. The result was a proprietary approach he calls Micro SEO Strategies—laser-targeted content plays designed to quickly recover rankings and leads. Two Pages That Saved the Agency Chris rebuilt their inbound engine with just two key pieces of content: A location page targeting “Denver SEO” that shot straight to #1 in local search and started generating leads almost immediately. An SEO packages guide that became a go-to national resource for that search term, pulling in high-quality leads from across the U.S. Within 3–4 weeks, the phones were ringing again. Inbound was back. And Chris walked away with a hard-earned reminder—never let your own marketing go stale. Don’t Put All Your Eggs in Google’s Basket If you’re getting all your leads from one channel, you’re on borrowed land. Whether it’s Google, Facebook, or any single source, an algorithm tweak or platform change can crush your lead flow overnight. Jason’s advice on this is to build three pillars: Inbound (like SEO and content) Outbound (targeted outreach and prospecting) Strategic partnerships (referrals, collabs, and networks) That way, if one pillar crumbles, your agency can survive. Turning Dyslexia into a Superpower Like anyone who’s struggled with dyslexia (like Jason, for instance) Chris had a hard time in school. Nowadays, however, he no longer sees it as a weakness and instead credits it with his ability to “feel” the algorithm and see patterns others might miss. It’s helped him build a thriving agency, one that makes most of its money from content. Both agreed, what once felt like a setback in school became an entrepreneurial advantage later in life. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Would you ever run two agencies at once? What if splitting your brand was the smartest way to protect and grow both? Today’s featured guest spotted a booming opportunity in a regulated market—but knew that advertising those services alongside his work for conservative and tech clients could hurt his existing agency. His solution? Launch a separate brand. The move paid off as the regulated market surged during the pandemic. He shares what it’s like to manage rapid growth, why he built a true people-first culture from day one, and how he stays optimistic even when agency life gets messy. Greg Peters is the founder of 4B Marketing and Hybrid Marketing in Denver, Colorado. 4B focuses on tech, energy, and government sectors, while Hybrid serves regulated markets—most notably the cannabis industry. A former tech sales pro turned serial entrepreneur, Greg’s journey into agency ownership may have been accidental, but what’s not accidental is how quickly he scaled. They hit $1M in revenue in their second year — and his people-first philosophy became the secret weapon behind his rapid growth. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Why he chose to run two agencies. Growing to $1 million in just two years. Growing during the pandemic thanks to a controversial niche. Staying positive when agency life gets messy. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Running Two Agencies for Two Very Different Worlds Greg didn’t set out to run two agencies. The split happened because of the cannabis side of the business. 4B’s conservative government and tech clients wouldn’t exactly appreciate a cannabis case study on the homepage. So Hybrid was born to serve the regulated, fast-growing cannabis market without spooking the more traditional side. This approach also positioned both agencies to thrive in their respective niches without brand confusion. For agency owners wondering when is it time to create new brands, separate brands aren’t always about chasing new markets—they can be about protecting existing ones. If your positioning or client mix creates brand tension, a spin-off can give you room to grow in both spaces. From Accidental Agency Owner to $1M in Two Years Greg’s path was a mix of corporate burnout and entrepreneurial curiosity. After years in tech sales and a detour into solar energy, he realized the big-company grind wasn’t for him. So he launched a go-to-market consultancy for telecom.. Once creative work started flowing in—and his team started growing—he embraced the agency model. The real jump happened when he let go. In year two, Greg went from $600K to $1M by putting the right people in the right seats and empowering them to run their own “business units” within the agency. This is a shift most agency owners agree is vital to see true growth. However, it’s usually uncomfortable and it takes time to make the decision to go all in. Greg made the leap quickly inspired by Richard Branson’s philosophy in The Virgin Way. Years before starting the agency and as he read the book, he had already decided his mantra as a business owner should be putting people first and thus the people will put the client first. The result was a faster scale without burning out. The Pandemic Pivot: Cannabis Keeps Growing While many agencies hit pause in 2020, Greg’s cannabis clients went into overdrive. With consumers stuck at home (and shopping local), demand spiked. That meant more competition, and suddenly the different cannabis providers needed more marketing to stand out. Hybrid Marketing doubled down on local search, “near me” campaigns, and brand differentiation—keeping clients top-of-mind while the industry boomed. For agency owners, this is a masterclass in following the growth. Greg didn’t predict cannabis would save the year, but he positioned his agency to move quickly when the opportunity showed up. Sometimes the best growth strategy is staying close to your clients’ markets and being ready to ride the wave. When the Org Chart Backfires Not every growth move is a win. One of Greg’s biggest lessons came from rolling out an org chart he thought would streamline things—only to find it created confusion for clients and tension among the team. It was a gut punch, but also a turning point. He learned to check himself and remember this is only his first agency and there’s still much to learn. Luckily, he was quick to strip out the toxicity created by that moment because culture eats strategy for breakfast. The goal isn’t just to have a structure, it’s to have one that actually works for your team and your clients. Staying Positive When Agency Life Gets Messy Greg has always naturally found himself on the more optimistic side of life. But his optimism isn’t naive—it’s built on grit, a strong support system, and relentless curiosity. From his wife’s early encouragement (“It’ll be okay,” even when the bank account said otherwise) to his own belief in learning every day, Greg credits mindset as much as skill for his success. For Greg, your network truly is your net worth and the more you can talk to people with the aim of creating a positive impact—whether that is on the financial business or helping somebody find a job or connecting them to a resource that'll help them—you put a lot of good stuff out into the universe without expectation, you'll get it back. Finally, curiosity is the most valuable trait an agency owner can have. Read widely, talk to people in and outside your industry, and always be asking, “What if?” It’s that curiosity that fuels innovation, keeps you ahead of trends, and helps you navigate the inevitable ups and downs. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Most agency owners don’t wake up dreaming about selling. You want freedom, better clients, and to stop living in Slack at 2 a.m. But here’s the truth: The same moves that make your agency attractive to a buyer are the ones that give you freedom as an owner. I built and sold an 8-figure agency and bought 10 more and now I’m sharing 8 elements of a sellable, scalable agency. Whether you ever sell or not, these are the foundations that make your shop stronger. Let’s break them down. 1. Stop Being the Accidental Owner Most of us stumbled into agency life. That’s fun—but long-term it’s not a strategy. You’ve got to shift from “operator” to agency CEO, and that means: Setting and communicating vision (over and over). Coaching your leadership team, not everyone. Knowing your numbers. Being the face of the agency. Building strategic relationships. When your team knows where you’re going, you stop being the bottleneck. 2. Build More Than Referrals Referrals are great, but if 90% of your deals are coming from “word of mouth,” you’ve got a problem. Getting most of your leads from any singular channel is usually a red flag. When I’m looking at buying  a business, one of the first things I’ll ask is how many channels they have for building their pipeline, how can I increase those channels and make them more predictable. If I’m looking at this, you as the agency owners and CEO should too. I recommend the three-legged stool: inbound, outbound, and strategic partnerships. When you’ve got multiple reliable channels, downturns don’t crush you. That’s how my agency grew through 9/11, ’08, and even COVID. 3. Predictable Revenue = Power Buyers want to know: can we forecast revenue six months out? That means retainers, long-term contracts, and expanding client accounts. If you land a $20k/month retainer, your mindset should be: “How can I build this account over time to grow it to $100k?” And don’t just deliver results—show them wins constantly. Stickiness comes from proof, community, and processes that make leaving painful. 4. Don’t Let a Whale Sink You If one client is 20%+ of your revenue, you’re on thin ice. Does this mean that you should say no to big clients? Heck no. Take the whale and then go get more. Turn today’s whales into tomorrow’s minnows by leveling up your client base. 5. Leadership That Runs Without You If your agency can’t grow while you’re gone for six months, you don’t have a business—you have a job. Owners shouldn’t be doing marketing, sales, or any type of delivery. A-players cost more, but they 10x the results and give you your life back. Your job isn’t to run projects, sales, or delivery—it’s to lead the leaders. 6. Profitability Isn’t Optional Know your EBITDA. If you’re not profitable and reinvesting, you’re stalling. And if you don’t have a compelling growth story (even how you’re leveraging AI), buyers—and clients—will pass. 7. Track KPIs Like a Pro If you can’t instantly tell me your close rate, show-up rate, or pipeline health, that’s a problem. Great agencies have dashboards, not excuses. 8. Get Audited Financials (Every Year) I’ve chatted with agency owners who thought they were making $1M profit—but after an audit, it was half that. Multiples dropped, deals crumbled. Don’t let your “guesswork” numbers cost you millions. Get audited, stay real. Before You Even Think About Selling… Don’t sell unless you know what’s next. Plenty of agency owners with 7-figure profits and freedom think they’re “done,” only to end up depressed because they tied their identity to the agency. Fix what you don’t like. Keep what works. Only exit when you’re moving toward something you actually want. What To Do Next If you’re serious about building an agency that gives you freedom (and the option to sell someday), start here: Agency Valuation Calculator. See what your agency’s really worth today. Agency Playbook. Jason’s 8-system framework to shift from operator to CEO. Agency Blueprint. Get a personalized roadmap to spot value gaps and growth opportunities.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What happens when the agency you’ve built is just… stuck? Or when you hit a revenue ceiling, lose a major client, and start wondering if you’ve been playing the wrong game entirely? Those moments either break you or become the pivot points that redefine everything. In this episode, you’ll hear from an agency owner who’s lived through the grind growing his agency from scratch, riding out recessions, choosing a niche that would help him get out of “no man’s land”. He’ll discuss the strategic bet that broke through plateaus, why he still refuses to hire a COO, and the million-dollar risk that could have sunk him but ended up being a worthwhile bet on his vision. Alex Membrillo is the founder and CEO of Cardinal Digital Marketing, a 100-person specialist agency in healthcare performance marketing. Based in Atlanta, Alex launched Cardinal 16 years ago fresh out of college driven by equal parts ambition and desperation. Over the years, he’s navigated economic downturns, client churn, plateaus, and tough hiring markets, ultimately transforming it from a generalist digital shop into a niche powerhouse serving multi-site medical and dental groups nationwide. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Riding out recessions. Breaking plateaus and choosing a niche. Why he still prefers not hiring a COO. Alex’s million-dollar bet on himself. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Starting from Scratch (and a Hospital Room) Alex didn’t start Cardinal with a polished business plan or a stack of VC cash — he started it the day after his first child was born. After watching his dad’s business nearly collapse thanks to a terrible SEO agency, Alex vowed to do better. With a fraternity brother on board and the confidence of having built a website once at sixteen, they left the hospital, started cold-calling local businesses, and selling websites. That first chapter didn’t exactly go as planned. The websites flopped, but an SEO win for a kayak tour company gave them the confidence (and proof) they needed to double down on search. From there, they expanded into paid ads and built a reputation on a simple promise: If we suck, we’ll give you your money back. In the wild west of 2009 SEO, when big agencies were scrambling to go “digital” overnight, this direct, performance-focused approach gave them an edge. Riding Out Recessions & Staying Hands-On Recessions shaped Alex’s early leadership style. In 2009, big agencies were struggling, but lean, hungry digital-first shops could move faster and win clients. That meant Alex was doing it all—account managing 20 clients, selling new business, running QuickBooks, and hiring unpaid interns just to keep things moving. In those early days, generalists are gold. If you’re too small for deep specialization, having people who can juggle SEO, PPC, and client management was critical. Even now, with a bigger team, Alex stays close to clients—spending hours each week on calls. To him, the job never ends, and the size of the clients is the only thing that’s changed thus far. Hence, staying in the work keeps his perspective sharp. Breaking Plateaus by Choosing a Niche By 2016, Cardinal had hit a wall at around $3.5M in revenue. At that stage, he realized what he had wasn’t really a business. You’re just a very good operator that probably has one or two big clients. The problem is that if those clients leave, as it happened to him when he was around $4 million, then you’re down to zero again. They’d grown by targeting four sectors—higher ed, home services, healthcare, and legal—which did help propel the agency. However, growth stalled again at $7–8M. Then COVID hit, and Alex decided to stop playing the “variety” game. Inspired by Jim Collins’ Hedgehog Concept, he asked: What can we be the best in the world at? What drives our economic engine? What do we actually love doing? The answer was healthcare. They rebranded, rewrote their site, published thought leadership, and even released a book to claim their spot in the niche. They didn’t fire old clients—they just stopped marketing to non-healthcare prospects and let those accounts naturally roll off. Alex does wish he would’ve also kept a bit of focus on higher ed, another sector where the agency really shined. Nonetheless, the bet paid off: a laser focus on healthcare has helped them grow faster, build deeper expertise, and win larger multi-site provider clients. Why Alex Still Doesn’t Have a COO Alex firmly believes you can grow out of most problems, so every time he felt the agency was stuck, he went right back to improving their marketing, getting bigger clients, and hiring talented people. It’s a simple formula that has kept working for him throughout the years. However, here’s where he breaks from conventional wisdom: even at 100+ employees, Cardinal has no head of operations or finance. Everyone, including him, is billable. “I’ve made the mistake 83 times of listening to experts who say ‘Go hire a COO,’” Alex says. In his view, it’s just not worth it at that point in your growth. “Do as much as you can as the owner. Have all departments report to you. You don’t need middle management pushing paper. You need smart, talented people actually doing the work.” That lean structure only works if you market hard and keep new business flowing. It gives you the freedom to walk away from bad-fit clients and double down on growth opportunities. AI as Your Board of Advisors Agency owners like Alex, who see no need to hire a COO or CMO while they can still manage things themselves, can now turn to AI as a resourceful solution, treating it like an in-house advisory board. Like fellow agency owner Chris Dreyer—who built custom GPTs for CFO and COO roles and used AI to better understand the business acquisition process—Alex is now considering feeding his P&L and monthly reports into AI to spot trends, explain fluctuations, and even validate assumptions. The takeaway: you don’t need expensive consultants or bloated leadership teams to get strategic insight. With the right prompts, you can cut through the noise and focus on execution, the part AI can’t do for you (yet). The Million-Dollar Bet on Himself One of Alex’s biggest turning points came when he bought out his co-founder. His partner had lost interest in client work, and Alex saw no way forward without full control. After a year of negotiation, he signed a deal that left him $1M in debt. For three years, he funneled $35,000 a month from profits to pay it off, losing sleep and enduring massive stress. In hindsight, it was worth it, but it took “probably 30 years off my life,” Alex says. Still, it was a defining moment—proving to himself he was willing to bet big on his own vision. Thought Leadership as a Growth Engine Cardinal’s healthcare niche dominance didn’t just happen—it was engineered. Alex leveraged thought leadership to own the space. From content and events to industry-specific messaging, they positioned themselves as the go-to choice for multi-site healthcare providers. He’s quick to point out this approach has pros and cons, but if you want his playbook, he’s happy to share it—just reach out on LinkedIn. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you growing your agency with the goal of selling it one day? More importantly, are you taking the right steps now to ensure it’s actually worth what you think it is? Today’s featured guest has built and sold multiple agencies over the years, gaining hard-earned insights into the process. He shares what you need to know to prepare your agency for sale, the potential pitfalls and opportunities with non-competes and earnouts, and whether hiring a broker is really worth it. If selling your agency is on your horizon, or even just a long-term possibility, this episode is packed with practical advice to help you maximize your valuation and avoid costly mistakes. Sean Hakes has been building and selling digital marketing agencies since the early 2000’s back when ‘SEO’ wasn’t a household term and websites were still coded in tables.. He’s grown agencies from small side hustles into multi-million-dollar operations, navigated multiple acquisitions, and learned the hard way how to structure a deal and when to walk away. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Getting savvier for his second agency sale. Not taking the highest bid, but picking the right buyer. Getting back to the game after a restrictive non-compete. Buying back his old agency. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. How a Major Mistake Started His Agency Journey Most agency owners start by accident, but in Sean’s case, he accidentally broke a website. While working for another company, he took down their site and had to learn HTML on the fly to fix it. That crash course turned into a curiosity for web design, which turned into a small SEO and design shop in Denver around 2001–2002, back when keyword stuffing and white text on a white background actually worked. Sean’s first agency wasn’t huge—three or four people, a few hundred grand in revenue—but their search visibility was strong. That alone was enough to attract an out-of-state buyer. The deal wasn’t life-changing money, and looking back he thinks (since he didn’t know anything about valuations) that he probably gave it away, but it was enough to get Sean hooked on the idea of building, growing, and eventually selling agencies. The “Do It Better” Second Act After dabbling in landscaping, trucking, and even diamond brokering businesses following the sale of his first agency, Sean realized marketing was still his zone of genius. This time, he teamed up with a sales-savvy partner. Sean handled operations; his partner brought in a big book of business. That agency scaled to about $3 million in revenue before they decided to sell—but not before learning a hard truth about valuations: top-line revenue doesn’t mean much without profit. When they first went to a broker, they were shocked to get a $100k valuation. Why so low? No recurring contracts, thin margins, and too much discretionary spending. So they spent the next year tightening up—signing contracts, cutting waste, and boosting profit. It’s a lesson many agency owners dreaming of selling at some point have to learn. You may think that making millions in topline revenue means your business is worth a lot, and then you learn there are many factors that determine that price, and profit is a pretty big one in the agency space. Understanding Deal Structures (and Picking the Right Buyer) The second sale was a much more strategic process. Sean and his partner used a broker, entertained multiple offers, and discovered there are a million ways to structure a deal. The one they chose was about half cash up front, with the rest split between owner financing and an earnout. Here’s the kicker: they didn’t take the highest bid. Instead, they picked a private equity group that specialized in their industry and cared about their team and clients. They passed on flashier offers, like one from a New York club owner, because they valued long-term success over a quick payday. They also learned brokers are very expensive. In fact, if he could do it all over again with the knowledge he has now, Sean wouldn’t use a broker. Playing the Earnout Game (and Winning It) Earnouts can be a trap, designed to look great on paper but structured so you’ll never hit the target. Sean and his partner weren’t having it. They stayed on the sales team, volunteered their time, and treated the earnout like a commission plan they could win. The trick for them was conservative projections. Instead of promising buyers a wild 50–100% growth rate (and setting themselves up to miss), they targeted a steady 10% growth. This set the earnout bar at a realistic level—and they smashed it. They even negotiated out their broker’s cut of the earnout once they knew they’d hit it, keeping 100% of the upside. From Restrictive Non-Competes to Freedom Deals Sean’s second agency sale came with a brutal seven-year non-compete—likely unenforceable, but restrictive enough to stress him out. Five years in, low on reserves, he approached the buyer with a proposal: let him start another company without poaching their clients. Instead of a fight, they offered to partner with him, gave their blessing, and even returned his old domains. That experience stood in stark contrast to another sale where the non-compete was simply, “Stay out of our 30-mile radius.” Takeaway: Non-compete terms can vary wildly. Negotiate them up front, and remember that relationships matter long after the ink is dry. The Cashless Merger That Led to a Full Cash Exit In 2011, Sean started another agency, Altitude. Five years later, he merged it with another company in a cashless deal to boost revenue and valuation. Within a year, an unexpected buyer came along with a full-multiple, all-cash offer—and only wanted one person to stay on. Sean took the deal, pocketed the money, and moved to the beach in South Carolina to run a fishing charter. “The old saying about boats, being happiest when buying and selling them, is true,” he laughs—but the experience checked a personal dream off his list. Buying Back His Old Agency In a very full-circle moment, the company that had bought Sean’s agency in an earlier deal came back to him in trouble. Mismanagement, bad outsourcing, and unhappy clients had turned it into a sinking ship. Sean and his new partner jumped on the opportunity, bought it back for a fraction of what they’d sold it for, rehired many of the original team, and turned it around within months. Sometimes the best acquisition target is one you already know inside and out—especially if you can buy it back at a discount and restore its former glory. Sean’s Advice to Agency Owners Thinking About a Sale Don’t take the first “decent” offer. The buyer pool is bigger than you think—negotiate. Be strategic with brokers. Great ones exist, but remember that they get paid if you sell, so their advice may be biased. Control your earnout terms. Conservative projections give you room to exceed expectations and actually cash in. Relationships last longer than deals. Today’s buyer could be tomorrow’s partner — or seller. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training What happens when you stop chasing $30K projects and start solving real problems for smaller clients in a way that actually works? Today’s featured guest had been building $32,000 websites for mid-market companies. On paper, it looked like success. But in reality, he felt stuck—unfulfilled and back in a corporate-style grind that didn’t align with the kind of work or life he truly wanted. When he took a step back, he realized something important: the clients he really wanted to serve were already reaching out. These were smaller, $300K businesses with many of the same challenges agencies see across the board—but without the bloated complexity. So he made a bold pivot. He simplified his offer, created a productized service, and returned to his roots—helping people in a way that felt meaningful, scalable, and sustainable. The result? Less stress, more impact, and a business model built around freedom, not friction. Nate Freedman is the founder of TechPro Marketing and creator of MSP Sites, a productized service built specifically for Managed IT Service Providers. After years of working in high-ticket agency engagements, Nate made a bold pivot—focusing on volume, automation, and scalable coaching for small IT firms. That shift helped him grow from a $20K/month agency to a $2.5M+ business serving over 100 clients with a tight, dialed-in model. We’ll explore his early missteps, the aha moment that changed everything, and the system he built to serve a niche audience at scale—without losing his soul. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Pivoting to MPSs as the perfect fit. Creating a low-ticket offer. Productizing with a purpose. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources This episode is brought to you by Wix Studio: If you’re leveling up your team and your client experience, your site builder should keep up too. That’s why successful agencies use Wix Studio — built to adapt the way your agency does: AI-powered site mapping, responsive design, flexible workflows, and scalable CMS tools so you spend less on plugins and more on growth. Ready to design faster and smarter? Go to wix.com/studio to get started. Impostor Syndrome and the Accidental CEO Nate’s background wasn’t in marketing strategy or enterprise consulting. He was a self-taught internet nerd who cut his teeth writing affiliate articles and selling photo recovery software online. He studied accounting, not realizing when he picked that career that being an online marketer was an option. Right out of college, his first job was at an accounting firm, an experience he promptly hated. He felt exposed and like a fish out of water. This is a feeling he recognized years later when, the more his agency took on large, complex clients like Salesforce, the more he felt like a fraud. He was working with large corporations and felt like an impostor. It just wasn’t the right fit for him. “I was putting on a kind of a facade. Like, I was pretending to be someone I wasn’t… and it just wasn’t me.” That realization drove Nate back to his roots: helping people who reminded him of himself. From Big Clients to Bigger Misalignment Nate didn’t start small. Like many digital agency owners, his early focus was on winning big projects—$10K, $20K, even $32K website and marketing packages. And sure, those checks looked great at first… until a very good client sent him the dreaded email: “Nate, when are we going to generate leads from this?” That one question—posed by a well-meaning client already $32K in—flipped the switch. Nate realized that delivering work isn’t the same as delivering results. The more he moved upmarket, the more he felt like he was back in the corporate world he hated. High-maintenance clients. Long sales cycles. No real alignment. He wasn’t building relationships. He was building a façade. Finding His People: MSPs as the Perfect Fit Nate’s breakthrough came when he niched down into the MSP (Managed Service Provider) space. These were former tech guys turned business owners—scrappy, smart, and stuck in the same ways agency owners often are. They didn’t need $30K marketing retainers. They needed help generating leads, converting visitors, and staying in business. Nate made a gutsy move. He ditched his high-ticket proposals and started sending BombBomb videos to leads who had previously ghosted him: “You turned down my $20,352 proposal. Here’s my new one: $2,000 a month, and I’ll help you generate leads. I don’t even know exactly what I’ll do yet. I just want to help you grow.” That transparency worked. Five early adopters signed on, and Nate never looked back. Scaling a Low-Ticket, High-Impact Model What started as a simplified offer became a flywheel. Over seven years, Nate scaled his agency to over 100 monthly clients, all paying around $4,200/month. But growth at that level brings churn. With just 3% monthly churn, he’d have to invest more on sales and onboarding and close three new clients a month just to break even. However, focusing on growing this way meant turning away 75% of leads who were not at least $1 million in revenue that could afford the expense. And most of the businesses reaching out to his agency were at 200K-300K. Nate felt he could service those clients without a big investment in human resources. This sparked the next evolution: MSP Sites. The new offer targeted those MSPs doing $200K–$300K/year. These folks couldn’t pay $4K/month… but they desperately needed help. So Nate reverse-engineered a low-cost, high-value offer that started at $200/month and eventually grew to include: Custom-designed websites Human chat agents CRM and booking automations On-demand courses and live office hours Weekly coaching and a client-only community He went from being “just another agency” to becoming an all-in-one marketing partner for small MSPs—at a price they could actually say “hell yes” to. Productizing with Purpose: Lessons from the Pivot This shift to a productized offer came with unexpected lessons, as Nate was confronted with a question from his past work making $32K websites or a $200 website: “Where are the leads?” He realized that whether he was going after the high end or low end of the market, he still had to provide an end result for clients. Low ticket doesn’t mean low impact. He has to answer that question while still providing an affordable service, so he started layering in automation, coaching, and a structured experience This slightly raised the price to $300/month, but clients not felt like they were part of a premium program. Nate wanted to help clients not just have a website, but also generate leads, drive traffic, and close the deal. By adding live calls, email support, and a live event, Nate turned MSP Sites into more than a tool—it became a tribe. Once the service was upgraded and clients could get their website set up even faster, the problem was that now they all looked the same. Nate knew his clients deserved better, so he removed the one-click deploy and now ensures each website is custom-designed to look amazing. Of course, this also led to a rise of the set up fee, but clients were more than happy to pay for a better design. Finally, on-demand courses and live office hours were the finishing touch for his new offer and he was finally helping clients much more and building the business he really enjoys. Market Share > Margins (When You’re Playing the Long Game) At some point, most agency owners fantasize about selling. Nate’s no different—but he’s thinking a few moves ahead. Instead of relying on private equity, his bet is on strategic acquisition by a larger company in his own niche. “The best multiple I’m going to get is from someone who wants more market share.” That’s why he’s focused on volume at the low end. Every small client is a slice of market share. And if you can build community, coaching, and brand loyalty into your offer, you’re not just a service provider—you’re infrastructure. The Next Frontier: Launching a Mastermind With 300+ paying clients, Nate’s building something many agency owners should be thinking about but don’t: a mastermind for your niche. Why? Because clients already trust you. They’re already getting value. And when you get them in a room together—virtually or physically—magic happens. Better yet, Nate doesn’t need to be the guru. The best masterminds don’t revolve around one person—they’re facilitated, not taught. When the room is full of practitioners, the value is in the conversations. Do Right By People (and You’ll Win) Scaling isn’t just about tech, pricing models, or marketing hacks. It’s about people. Nate credits a huge part of his growth to partnering with E2M Solutions, which removed the HR complexity of managing a dev team in-house. More importantly, it aligned with his core value: “Do right by people. If you do that, no one’s going to say anything bad about you. Even when you make mistakes.” It’s simple, but in a crowded industry full of overpromising and under-delivering, that integrity stands out—and scales. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.

Would you like access to our advanced agency training for FREE? https://www.agencymastery360.com/training Are you stuck chasing new clients while ignoring the goldmine in your past customer list? Does your agency feast on projects but starve for predictable revenue? Today’s featured guest knows what it’s like to hit a growth ceiling and being tired of the one-and-done client hamster wheel. He shares how he pivoted his agency after becoming a HubSpot partner, why he turned to project-based work after customer habits changed following the pandemic, and how he got out of the dreaded “no man’s land”. Eric Baum is the CEO and founder of Bluleadz, a HubSpot Onboarding and Implementation Agency dedicated to transforming the way companies market, sell, and service their customers through the power of the HubSpot platform. He’ll discuss his cash flow challenges, pricing mistakes that almost tanked the business, and how EOS helped him escape “no man’s land.” If you're stuck in the fulfillment hamster wheel or scaling past $5M feels like pushing a boulder uphill... listen up. In this episode, we’ll discuss: Reinventing his agency as a HubSpot partner. The real scaling struggle: cash flow. Why project-based doesn’t mean profitless. Strategic partnerships are the future. Subscribe Apple | Spotify | iHeart Radio Sponsors and Resources E2M Solutions: Today's episode of the Smart Agency Masterclass is sponsored by E2M Solutions, a web design, and development agency that has provided white-label services for the past 10 years to agencies all over the world. Check out e2msolutions.com/smartagency and get 10% off for the first three months of service. Accidental Founder, Intentional CEO Back in the Yellow Pages era, Eric was running two service-based franchises and needed a better way to market them. He brought marketing in-house for PPC, SEO, web dev, and that hire didn’t just turn things around. It turned into a new business. Fast-forward a few months, and other franchise owners across the country started asking for help. Eric spun that in-house team into an agency, and had 50 clients out of the gate. As many owners before have admitted to, Eric started out charging way too low—$250 to $500/month. “I don’t know how I didn’t go broke right out of the gate,” he laughs. And if you’ve ever undercharged in the early days, you’ll feel that one deep in your soul. Reinventing the Agency (and Himself) Around HubSpot The turning point came when Eric discovered HubSpot and pivoted Bluleadz to become a certified partner. That’s when the “real” agency began, as he started to study the industry and figure out what he had to do to be profitable, take care of his team, and do it without necessarily doing all the sales work all the time. From there, Eric leaned into strategy, profitability, and systems. He stopped trying to be the everything guy and started building an agency that didn’t need him in the trenches every day. Fifteen years later, his agency isn’t just thriving. It’s structured, profitable, and on track to hit 8 figures. Life in “No Man’s Land” – The $1M to $5M Plateau After fifteen years in the industry and getting closer to the eight-figure mark, one of the things that most surprised Eric was getting stuck in the ugly middle: the zone between $1M and $5M where a lot of agency dreams go to die. Many call it “no man’s land,” and if you’ve been there, you know the pain. “It was up, down, up, down,” he says. “I’d grow, then lose key employees. Revenue would spike, then tank. I kept asking, ‘What am I doing wrong?’” The answer: a lack of structure. So about nine years ago, Eric implemented EOS (Entrepreneurial Operating System). That gave his agency the foundation it needed—vision, accountability, and a cadence to scale. It didn’t fix everything overnight, but it got the business out of reaction mode and into growth mode. The Real Scaling Struggle: Cash Flow Even with all that success, Eric’s biggest constraint today isn’t clients or talent. It’s cash. In the agency world, sometimes you can grow so fast that you can actually outpace your ability to fund it. As Eric explains, “Receivables stack up. You can’t hire, build, or invest without the cash reserves in place to hit the down terms.” For instance, just this year his agency was down 20% compared to last year because of all the uncertainty for businesses. Sound familiar? So far, Eric's solution has been airtight payment terms. They moved away from waiting on client deliverables and toward milestone-based billing. They typically charge: 50% upfront 25% after month one 25% at month two or fixed date Not based on deliverables. Based on time. Why? Because waiting on clients kills momentum (and your margin). “We used to wait months to get that final 50%. Now we’re often 100% paid before a project is even done.” Moral of the story? Set clear terms and stop letting clients hold your agency hostage. Project-Based Doesn’t Mean Profitless If You Structure It Right Five years ago, 85% of Bluleadz’s revenue came from retainers. Then COVID hit. Buying behavior shifted fast. Clients wanted results without long-term commitments. So Eric pivoted hard into project work—today, 80–85% of their revenue comes from one-off HubSpot onboarding and implementation projects. That means 50–75 new customers per month, each on 30 to 90-day timelines. The lesson: project-based doesn't have to mean chaos - if you systemize delivery and payment. However, Eric does admit he and his team had been failing to recapture clients for a second or third project. “We were just focused on getting new clients through the door.” Instead of nurturing clients post-delivery, they handed off the project and moved on. Meanwhile, past clients drifted—only to come back a year or two later in total chaos saying, “We lost our HubSpot guy. Can you help?” The opportunity cost was massive. They are currently working on recapturing these relationships. By reselling past clients, his agency could double or triple revenue in a year. The Triple-Team Model: Sales, CSM, Implementation In their efforts to start creating more lifetime value for customers, Eric’s agency introduced Customer Success Managers (CSMs)—not just to check in, but to hunt for value. CSMs dig into each client’s needs post-project, surface upsell or cross-sell opportunities, and feed them back to the sales team. Now they’re farming the base, increasing LTV, and stacking wins without chasing cold leads. This third new role adds a new layer to his team’s structure, which he now breaks down as: Salespeople close net-new deals and join key milestone calls.           Implementation Specialists own delivery and are the client’s main point of contact. CSMs sit above delivery, watching for success gaps, retention issues, and upsell opportunities. “Salespeople are hunters, not farmers. Trying to make them farm didn't work. So we changed the model.” This layered structure gives clients clarity, keeps teams focused, and ensures no growth opportunity slips through the cracks. Strategic Partnerships Are the Future Another key reason Bluleadz is scaling so quickly is partnerships. They're one of HubSpot’s top onboarding partners, and at one point this partnership drove most of his agency’s net new leads. More recently, however, as they start to expand their efforts to engage past clients, only 40% of their leads come from HubSpot, while 30% comes from existing customers, and another 30% from their inbound marketing efforts, other strategic partners, and referrals. This makes for a more balanced pipeline: “Inbound, outbound, and strategic partnerships”. Those are the three pillars in the Playbook. You’ve got ‘em dialed in. As for Eric, he’s all in on strategic partnerships, which he considers to be the way of the future. The One Thing Eric Would Do Differently If he could go back and give his younger self advice on agency ownership, Eric would say “Let go faster.” He held on too long to sales, finance, client services… all of it. And every time he finally let go, the agency grew again. Today, Eric has zero departmental responsibilities. His job is vision, strategy, and leadership—and it’s paying off. Do You Want to Transform Your Agency from a Liability to an Asset? Looking to dig deeper into your agency's potential? Check out our Agency Blueprint. Designed for agency owners like you, our Agency Blueprint helps you uncover growth opportunities, tackle obstacles, and craft a customized blueprint for your agency's success.