Summary
Mark Zaid (X, LinkedIn) joins Andrew (X; LinkedIn) to discuss American intelligence and the law. You’ve heard of a “lawyer to the stars,” Mark is the “lawyer to the spies”
What You’ll Learn
Intelligence
The quirks of being a lawyer in this space
How the Espionage Act works in practice
The trial of the Rosenbergs
The origins of FOIA and its purpose
The Legal foundations underpinning espionage and intelligence
Reflections
Challenging authority
The delicate balance of secrecy
And much, much more …
Quotes of the Week
“I still love working every day, 30 years later, because there's still something new. As much as I fight for declassification and transparency, I will at times also see information and learn of events where I go, “Oh, I get it. Yeah, that stuff cannot be known. That's incredible what we did. That's pretty wild.” – Mark Zaid.
Resources
SURFACE SKIM
*SpyCasts*
Agent of Betrayal, FBI Spy Robert Hanssen with CBS’ Major Garrett and Friends (2023)
David Petraeus on Ukraine & Intelligence with the former CIA Director & 4* General (2023)
Havana Syndrome – A Panel featuring Nicky Woolf, Marc Polymeropoulos, and Mark Zaid (2023)
How Artificial Intelligence is Changing the Spy Game with Mike Susong (2023)
*Beginner Resources*
What Is a Whistleblower? Protections, Law, Importance, and Example, W. Kenton, Investopedia (2022) [Short article]
What is a Lawyer? American Bar Association (2019) [Short article]
Legal System Basics, CrashCourse, YouTube (2015) [8 min. video]
DEEPER DIVE
Books
State of Silence: The Espionage Act and the Rise of America's Secrecy Regime, S. Lebovic (Basic Books, 2023)
Ethel Rosenberg, A. Sebba (Griffin, 2022)
Spies on Trial: True Tales of Espionage in the Courtroom, C. C. Kuhne (Rowman & Littlefield Publishers, 2019)
Primary Sources
A Letter from Aldrich Ames on Polygraph Testing (2000)
Whistle Blower Protection Act (1989)
DoD Polygraph Program (1984)
National Security Decision Directive 84 (1983)
Inspector General Act (1978)
Freedom of Information Act (1966)
Administrative Procedure Act (1946)
Espionage Act (1917)
*Wildcard Resource*
John Adams, a 2008 HBO Mini-Series chronicling the Founding Father’s role in early America
John Adams, much like Mark, was a lawyer dedicated to the right to representation. Adams, ever dedicated to the honor of his profession, was the only attorney who agreed to defend the British soldiers involved in the Boston Massacre. You can read the whole trial here.
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices
🔴✅📺📱💻ALL>Movies>WATCH>ᗪOᗯᑎᒪOᗩᗪ>LINK>👉https://co.fastmovies.org
2
I worked at SHAPE at the time and I worked quite a Lot with ACE CI. But this guy is full of shit. The bullshit of his story is seething out of my speaker. Laughable!
this was great, please have more Australians on!
really getting tired of all the woke BS on every damm episode. Used to be a good podcast, but is tiresome now. Could get back to spycraft instead of social justice?
Absolutely amazing. What a wonderful woman. Thank you Marthe for your dedication and bravery ensuring our freedom. Sending much love your way for a wonderful life in your twighlight years. 💕
yay finally an episode on Australia! I would suggest you do more on other countrys' intelligence starting with Five Eyes
is there a part 2, this seems to just cut out
very interesting podcast
Lost me when he started on limiting "hate speech." More boilerplate leftism. Fine and well if you just announce that this is his perspective, but to pretend that it's just obvious for combating counterterrorism is disingenuous. I'm starting to worry about this podcast. The previous host was carefully apolitical, this guy just doesn't seem to care that much about being balanced.
Would've been better to leave personal political beliefs out of the discussion.
surely Spycast can do better than Vince Houghton.....his liberal bias is a turn off and a big reason why I don't listen to Spycast anymore. I can get the leftist agenda on another channel.
This is pathetic. Liz wahl. Lol
love the show I've been listening 4 about half a year now, I've started with the old shows and throw a few new ones in here and there. 5 out of 5 stars one of my favorite podcast. however this episode I cannot hear your guests at all they sound very whisper ear quiet. using voice to text at work. keep up the good work, again love the show thanks for doing what you do
This cuts off at the end! You'd think that after years of this podcast, the quality would get better...
more Dangerous than Chicago. LA and Newyork?.
Bore score 100%. Enough callow youths!
Campbell's hasty speech is that of a nervous gabbler, and his Trump-like massacring of English syntax and grammar suggests incoherency of thought. God help USA if its safety depends upon jittery minds such as Campbell's.
Worst episode ever. Total circle-jerk among desktop spooks. No wonder taxes are high.
Dylan Thomas was Welsh, not Irish you ignoramus.