Startups For the Rest of Us

In episode 741, Rob Walling talks to Wes Bush, CEO and Founder of ProductLed, about the nuances and misconceptions of product-led growth. Wes debunks common myths and explains how companies can leverage their product to drive user acquisition, engagement, and growth. They dive into a real-world example and explore how founders can avoid the trap of thinking the product will “sell itself” while contrasting PLG and sales-led strategies. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:01 – Defining product-led growth 6:07 – Are users able to get value for free?  11:38 – Hybrid: both product-led and sales-led 14:52 – Determining the main outcome of your free model 19:23 – Misuse of the PLG terminology 22:00 – The benefits of PLG over sales-led growth 24:08 – Workshopping SavvyCal’s product-led strategy Links from the Show:  Mastermind Applications are open until December 4th Wes Bush (@wes_bush) | X ProductLed (@productled) | X ProductLed Product-Led Growth: How to Build a Product That Sells Itself by Wes Bush The Product-Led Playbook: How to Unlock Self-Serve Revenue and Dominate Your Market (With a Tiny Team) by Wes Bush Free Audiobook of The Product-Led Playbook Product-Led Onboarding by Ramli John TinySeed SparkToro SavvyCal If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe...

In episode 740, Rob Walling speaks with Dr. Sherry Walling about their new book, "Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret." They explore the emotional, psychological, and practical aspects of selling a business, emphasizing the universal challenges entrepreneurs face. The book draws on both Rob and Sherry’s unique experiences that they’ve shared with countless founders throughout their careers. Exit Strategy is now live on Kickstarter! Topics we cover:  2:01 – Not just a book for those selling SaaS 8:13 – The Kickstarter for the book is live today 12:16 – Before, during, and after the exit 14:55 – Why exiting is so hard 20:39 – Life after the exit 25:10 – A few traps await founders shortly after exit 26:24 – What do you do with a big pile of money? Links from the Show:  MicroConf Remote Goes Live November 20th! Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X Dr. Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X Zen Founder Zen Founder Podcast The SaaS Playbook The Art of Selling Your Business by John Warrillow Before the Exit by Dan Andrews  Finish Big by Bo Burlingham MicroConf TinySeed Testing Two Worlds by Dr. Sherry Walling If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 739, Rob Walling interviews Andy Kim, co-founder of Trotto, about his unique journey into SaaS. Andy shares how “go links” work, and why they are so valuable for internal, enterprise use despite their relative obscurity. They also explore the marketing hurdles and customer adoption challenges in a business like Trotto. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  3:13 – Go links, URL shorteners for enterprise 6:14 – History of the problem and core users 9:44 – Customer education and growth opportunities 15:37 – Finding the repeatable marketing funnel 21:07 – Buying into a co-founder role at Trotto 24:42 – What’s the hardest part of running Trotto? Links from the Show:  Exit Strategy: The Entrepreneur's Guide to Selling Your Business Without Regret MicroConf Masterminds - Applications close on December 4th, 2024 Trot.to Trotto go links (@TrottoHQ) | X TinySeed How did go links start and evolve at Google? Quiet Light If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 738, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure as he answers listener questions. He explores how to target larger, enterprise deals after achieving product-market fit, and why word of mouth marketing can be great, yet is tricky to control. Rob also answers a later-stage question and cautions against trying to educate the market as a bootstrapper. Topics we cover:  1:58 – Expanding to enterprise deals after product-market fit 6:39 – Word of mouth marketing is tricky for B2B SaaS 14:36 – Educating the market as a bootstrapper 20:07 – Selling integrations through incubators and accelerators 24:38 – Developing a profit sharing model Links from the Show:  Register for MicroConf Remote before Nov. 7th for Early Bird pricing & extras Ask a Question at Startups For the Rest of Us The SaaS Playbook TinySeed Adjacency Matrix: How to expand after PMF by Jason Cohen F5Bot Syften Podscan Veed Devising a profit sharing program for micro-multinationals by Peldi Guilizzoni If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 737, Rob Walling is joined by Derrick Reimer to recap the experience from MicroConf Europe 2024 in Dubrovnik. They discuss the differences between MicroConf US and MicroConf Europe, some small programming tweaks over the years, and they revisit the highlights from the talks at this event.  If you missed the event and had some MicroConf FOMO, get your tickets now for our New Orleans event! Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:47 – MicroConf Europe vs. MicroConf US 6:44 – Adding “excursions” to the programming 11:29 – From Maker to Founder to Owner to Entrepreneur with Peldi Guilizzoni    18:55 – Thinking big and small: Data-driven growth strategies to grow your business with Andrew Davies 20:45 – Contributing factors to the success of this event in particular 23:47 – 10 Lessons Learned in 10 Years of Starting, Growing, and Selling WebinarNinja with Omar Zenhom  26:40 – Bootstrapping Our Freemium Form Builder: From Zero to $1.5M ARR with Marie Martens 30:37 – 3 mistakes I won’t repeat after growing my business to +35M and selling it with Tim Vandecasteele 33:50 – Breaking Through the 7 SaaS Growth Plateaus with Rob Walling Links from the Show:  Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans Signup for the MicroConf newsletter Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X SavvyCal Peldi from Balsamiq (@peldi) | X The SaaS Playbook Omar Zenhom (@TheOmarZenhom) | X Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please

In episode 736, join Rob Walling as he answers some later-stage listener questions in another solo adventure. He discusses common pitfalls in delegation, transitioning from one-time transactions to SaaS models, and when it makes sense to target multiple ICPs. Rob also warns about the limited impact that social media marketing can have on growing your SaaS tool. Episode Sponsor: Are you drowning in challenging tech decisions? You should check out today’s sponsor, Techstack.  Unlike typical staffing agencies, these folks are startup specialists with over a decade of experience in startup software development. Techstack can help your startup build an MVP that's designed for explosive growth, rapidly expand your team for new features, or optimize your existing codebase for peak performance. Whether you're launching, scaling up, or fine-tuning, they've got the expertise to supercharge your tech. One of Techstack’s clients was recently featured on Inc. Magazine's Fast Growth Companies list, and they attributed part of their 375% growth to their partnership. Here's an exclusive offer for "Startups For the Rest of Us" listeners: Get a 10% discount on your first month of development with Techstack. And if you're one of the first 10 listeners to get in touch, you'll also receive a free, in-depth tech assessment and expert consultation – a $3,000 value – in your choice of critical areas like architecture, infrastructure, development process or project management. This could be the game-changer your startup needs. Don't let tech challenges slow you down. Check out https://www.tech-stack.com/startups  to discover how Techstack can turbocharge your growth. Topics we cover:  2:17 – What to delegate on the path to $10k MRR 6:43 – Be wary of social media marketing masquerading as productivity 10:31 – DIY vs. hiring a growth agency for B2B SaaS marketing 15:22 – Not every business should be a subscription business 22:00 – Defining, targeting, and selling to different ICPs Links from the Show:  Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans The SaaS Launchpad TinySeed The Stair Step Method of Bootstrapping Founding Sales by Peter Kazanjy Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review:

In episode 735, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he categorizes the different levels of SaaS platform risk. He introduces a framework with three key factors: Replacement, Customer Concentration, and Lead Flow. Rob then defines eight levels of risk according to these factors and other vulnerabilities such as relying on open source – a hot topic with recent news about WordPress, WP Engine, and Automattic.  Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:32 – Are replacements available for this platform? 4:56 – How concentrated are your customers on this platform? 5:31 – What is your lead or customer flow? 8:54 – Level 1: almost no platform risk 10:04 – Level 2: reliant on a commoditized platform 11:49 – Level 3: using large cloud providers like AWS 15:33 – Level 4: deeply tied to open source software like WordPress 18:11 – Level 5: high switching costs, but replacements exist like in no-code 20:00 – Level 6: 100% lead flow risk 21:44 – Level 7: a friendly app ecosystem 23:24 – Level 8: aggressive platforms, few replacements, customer concentration Links from the Show:  Get Tickets for MicroConf US 2025, New Orleans TinySeed Rob Walling (@robwalling) | X Ask a Question on SFTROU How to find and validate business ideas from 75+ SaaS Marketplaces If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 734, Rob Walling interviews Ian Landsman, founder of HelpSpot, about his 20-year bootstrapper journey. They discuss Ian's transition from on-prem software to SaaS, the challenges and benefits of each, and the early days of building the business. They wrap up by discussing the potential impact of AI on the customer service industry.  Topics we cover:  1:11 – Ian, the OG bootstrapper 2:22 – Benefits of on-prem software in 2024 5:46 – Slow, steady, profitable growth through the years 9:20 – Embracing a risky start 14:11 – Getting early awareness 18:52 – Transitioning to SaaS 26:37 – Laravel raises $57M 28:59 – AI impact on customer service Links from the Show:  The SaaS Playbook TinySeed Ian Landsman (@ianlandsman) | X HelpSpot (@helpspot) | X HelpSpot Podscan Accel invests $57M into Laravel Products & Open-Source Framework Mostly Technical If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 733, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he covers several topics. In this episode he differentiates between good and bad distractions, weaknesses versus blind spots, and shares personal experiences of struggle. He concludes with actionable advice – uncover the blind spots, then launch, iterate, and take feedback. Topics we cover:  2:09 – Not all distractions are bad 5:42 – The worst distractions masquerade as productivity 9:48 – Weaknesses versus blind spots 16:41 – Everybody struggles  24:40 – Launch, iterate, and take feedback Links from the Show:  The SaaS Launchpad The SaaS Playbook MicroConf Connect The Hard Thing About Hard Things by Ben Horowitz Why Startup Founders Should Stop Reading Business Books by Rob Walling Traction by Gabriel Weinberg, Justin Mares Episode 725 | SEO in the Age of AI, Freemium, When Brand Becomes Important, and More Advanced Listener Questions (with Ruben Gamez) Launch. A Startup Documentary. If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 732, Rob Walling interviews Jeff, a mostly anonymous and retired founder, about his mostly bootstrapped business and subsequent exits. Jeff shares how he started the company in 2003 and how he persevered in the early, lonely years to achieve traction in the business. They also discuss finding fulfillment after a huge, life-changing exit. Topics we cover:  2:17 – Jeff, the retired SaaS founder you haven’t heard of 3:32 – Refreshing the bank balance after multiple exits 5:26 – ARR multiples across several exits 8:11 – “Accidentally” SaaS, growing the business in the early days 11:35 – Getting through the toughest moments in the journey 16:31 – Why did the business work? 20:14 – “Short term generous, long term greedy” 24:32 – Staying busy after an exit 32:09 – Giving back to founders Links from the Show:  Purchase The SaaS Launchpad before September 30th to get access to a live Q&A with Rob TinySeed Retired Founder (@RetiredFounder) | X Contact Retired Founder Beyond The Finish Line If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 731, join Rob Walling and Derrick Reimer as they tackle some more advanced listener questions. They discuss delegation and giving up areas of control as a founder, including examples from their time together at Drip. Derrick describes how he approaches partnering with other SaaS businesses and why planning a full quarter ahead doesn’t work for many bootstrapped founders. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  1:17 – Delegating as a perfectionist 7:19 – Learning to hire those that are better than you in some domains 14:50 – Risk vs. certainty 19:01 – Finding specialized marketing roles vs. a generalist 24:04 – Managing partnerships with other SaaS products 31:17 – Reaching out about partnerships 32:46 – Quarterly planning for your SaaS 34:20 – Planning in smaller time blocks 40:58 – Quizzing developers’ on their knowledge Links from the Show:  Purchase The SaaS Launchpad TinySeed The SaaS Playbook MicroConf YouTube Channel Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X SavvyCal Finding Fulfillment by Jason Cohen Shape Up If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 730, Craig Hewitt turns the table and interviews Rob Walling about releasing The SaaS Launchpad course. Craig, founder of Castos, asks Rob about the course's purpose and structure, which founders that it’s designed for, and why he made a course as opposed to a new book, or a YouTube series. They also discuss the pricing strategy, hosting platforms, accountability, community, and more. If you’re trying to take your SaaS from zero to one, purchase The SaaS Launchpad before September 30th to get access to a live Q&A with Rob. Topics we cover:  2:00 – Why a course? 4:35 – Who is it for? 9:37 – Breaking down the pricing behind the course 14:32 – Choosing a platform to host the course 17:47 – Enabling action from those who enroll 27:33 – Course topics that help founders get early traction 30:26 – The biggest problems early-stage founders face Links from the Show:  The SaaS Launchpad Craig Hewitt (@TheCraigHewitt) | X Castos The Rouge Startups podcast Craig’s YouTube Channel Episode 606 | The Podcasting Landscape, Keeping Your Saw Sharpened, and Scaling Your Team with Craig Hewitt The SaaS Playbook MicroConf Connect MicroConf Mastermind Matching The MicroConf YouTube channel TinySeed Episode 726 | Selling 29,000 Copies, Information vs. Motivation, and Making Your First Level Last (A Rob Solo Adventure) Circle.so Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X Lianna Patch (@punchlinecopy) | X Derrick Reimer (@derrickreimer) | X Ross Hudgens (@RossHudgens) | X Episode 628 | The 5 PM Pre-Validation Framework If you have questions about starting or scaling a software busines...

In episode 729, join Rob Walling as he shares insights from the 170+ SaaS investments he’s made through his B2B SaaS accelerator, TinySeed. Key patterns include the survivability of SaaS, the lucrative value of these companies, and commonalities across the ones that grow the fastest. To see even more patterns that didn’t make this episode, be sure to check out the MicroConf YouTube channel. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:24 – Survivability of B2B SaaS in TinySeed 4:09 – SaaS is extremely valuable 8:26 – Vertical and orthogonal SaaS face fewer headwinds  12:36 – A supermajority of TinySeed companies want a big exit 15:51 – TinySeed founder count aligns with the broader MicroConf ecosystem 17:04 – Ruined cap tables have prevented deals 19:35 – A quarter of TinySeed companies raise subsequent fundraising 21:17 – Common advisory topics: pricing, plateaus, cofounders, funding, selling Links from the Show:  Apply for TinySeed Invest in TinySeed MicroConf YouTube: 6 Lessons From My Most Successful Investments (B2B SaaS) Episode 727 | Gymdesk Sells for More than $32.5 million, Hiring Gets Easier, and More Hot Take Tuesday Topics Episode 728 | Bootstrapping Gymdesk to a More Than $32.5M Exit State of Independent SaaS Report If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes |

In episode 728, Rob Walling interviews Eran Galperin, founder of Gymdesk, about his incredible exit. Eran shares his journey of transforming Gymdesk from "Martial Arts on Rails" into a successful gym management software company. He discusses how they succeeded in a competitive market, the role of TinySeed in their growth, and how feelings of burnout eventually led to a majority buyout for the company. Topics we cover:  2:02 – Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment 5:13 – How the investment will be used 6:38 – Eran’s projects before Gymdesk 9:21 – Sticking with one idea long enough to see success 12:45 – Entering a competitive market 16:37 – Rapid growth as a marketing leader 20:54 – Dealing with burnout and entertaining an acquisition 26:45 – Handling a stressful sales process 32:19 – The future of Gymdesk Links from the Show:  Apply for TinySeed Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment from Five Elms Capital Episode 727 | Gymdesk Sells for More than $32.5 million, Hiring Gets Easier, and More Hot Take Tuesday Topics Gymdesk.com Eran Galperin (@erangalperin) | X Eran Galperin | LinkedIn Eran’s Website Financial Independence, Retire Early (FIRE) Explained: How It Works Discretion Capital If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 727, Rob Walling is joined by Tracy Osborn and Einar Vollset to give their hot takes on some recent news. First they celebrate Gymdesk’s recent funding and evaluate what that means for TinySeed companies. Then, they weigh in on bootstrapper hiring, grappling with new challenges as MRR grows, and how to really move the needle in your business. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:19 – Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment 9:06 – Is it getting easier for bootstrappers to hire? 12:22 – Facing different challenges as MRR grows    19:37 – Identifying what really moves the needle 23:56 – Listen to those who have built businesses before you Links from the Show:  Subscribe to the Startups For the Rest of Us Email List TinySeed The SaaS Playbook Discretion Capital Tracy Osborn (@tracymakes) | X Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X TinySeed (@tinyseedfund) | X Gymdesk Announces a $32.5 Million Strategic Growth Investment from Five Elms Capital Eran Galperin (@erangalperin) | X Episode 697 | 7 Predictions for SaaS Bootstrappers in 2024 State of Independent SaaS Report The Elephant in the room: The myth of exponential hypergrowth

In episode 726, join Rob Walling for a solo adventure where he covers several topics. In this episode he reveals the sales details around “The SaaS Playbook” by sharing the volume and sales channel data. He explores the importance of motivation over mere access to information, particularly for developers, with the introduction of AI. Rob also previews several exciting projects to be released in the near future. Topics we cover:  2:49 – The SaaS Playbook sales channel breakdown 8:20 – Learnings from the book launch 9:51 – Upcoming books and courses 12:07 – ”Teach them how to run fast, better” 16:04 – Access to information vs. motivation 19:40 – Creating your onboarding last Links from the Show:  Discretion Capital Einar Vollset (@einarvollset) | X Episode 707 | Once.com, Open Source to FT Income, and More (Hot Take Tuesday) TinySeed The SaaS Playbook The SaaS Launchpad video course Sherry Walling (@sherrywalling) | X Netflix’s Sprint John Romero (@romero) | X Masters of Doom by David Kushner Doom Guy by John Romero If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 725, join Rob Walling and Ruben Gamez as they answer several more advanced listener questions. They discuss the challenges of pursuing freemium as a bootstrapper and make a suggestion that might surprise you. Rob and Ruben also talk about why building your business as a SaaS founder is usually the best way to build your brand indirectly. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:31 – Considering a freemium plan as a bootstrapper 9:52 – Freemium, but without the intent to convert free users 12:24 – Raising prices as an alternative to starting a freemium plan 18:32 – When to start caring about your “brand” 25:10 – Investing directly in branding 31:00 – Revisiting your marketing funnels 34:08 – AI’s impact on SEO 38:20 – Google’s search results are already changing Links from the Show:  Get notified about The SaaS LaunchPad Ask a Question on SFTROU Email a Question on SFTROU MicroConf TinySeed The SaaS Playbook Ruben Gamez (@earthlingworks) | X SignWell Episode 724 | Managing Managers, Breaking Through Plateaus, Thoughts on EOS, and More Later-Stage Listener Questions Episode 717 | Bootstrapping to $1.3M ARR and 300,000 Free Users Val Sopi (@valsopi) | X Blogstatic

In episode 724, join Rob Walling as he takes on some later-stage listener questions in another solo adventure. He provides several tips for managing managers, how to break through MRR plateaus, and how to think about SaaS versus agency work. Rob also offers his take on how he would talk about his product at conferences, without overselling it. Topics we cover:  3:48 – Three tips for managing other managers 8:42 – Schedule “skip level” meetings 9:50 – Attending a conference without overselling 15:00 – Breaking out of the $20k-$30k MRR plateau 19:57 – How to keep your self-serve SaaS from becoming an agency 23:58 – Scaling management through company growth Links from the Show:  Get tickets for MicroConf Europe in Dubrovnik, Croatia (before August 15th) TinySeed Christopher Gimmer (@cgimmer) | X Episode 480 | Stairstepping Your Way to SaaS with Christopher Gimmer Seeking Scale If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 723, Rob Walling interviews Charles Duhigg, a Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist and bestselling author, about the significance of effective communication for founders. They discuss practical advice on recognizing different types of conversations, techniques for understanding and transitioning conversations, and how to quickly move past small talk in a conference setting. Episode Sponsor: Hiring senior developers can really move the needle in your business, but if you bring on the wrong person, you can quickly burn through your runway. If you need help finding a vetted, senior, results-oriented developer, you should reach out to today’s sponsor, Lemon.io.  For years, they’ve been helping our audience find high quality, global talent at competitive rates, and they can help you too. Longtime listener Chaz Yoon, hired a senior developer from Lemon.io and said his hire ”definitely knew his stuff, provided appropriate feedback and pushback, and had great communication, including very fluent English. He really exceeded my expectations.”  Chaz said he’d definitely use Lemon.io again when he’s looking for a senior level engineer.  To learn more and get a 15% discount on your first four weeks of working with a developer at lemon.io/startups.  Topics we cover:  2:42 – What’s a “super communicator?” 4:35 – Getting better at being a great communicator 8:10 – Identifying the types of conversations you are having 11:31 – Transitioning between different types of conversations 16:51 – Advice for introverts engaging in deep conversations with new people 22:01 – How to quickly improve small talk 27:22 – Non-verbal communication has slightly different rules Links from the Show:  MicroConf Connect Charles Duhigg (@cduhigg) | X Charles Duhigg’s website Supercommunicators by Charles Duhigg The Power of Habit by Charles Duhigg Smarter, Faster, Better by Charles Duhigg Crucial Conversations by Joseph Grenny et. al If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify

In episode 722, Rob Walling interviews James Mooring, co-founder of Astalty, a SaaS serving Australia's NDIS market. James reveals how they bootstrapped from zero to seven figures in just 18 months and then they explore the strategic decisions, clever pricing, and deep industry knowledge that propelled Astalty's remarkable growth, proving their success was far more than just a lucky break. Episode Sponsor: If you need help hiring great talent from Latin America and the Philippines, but don’t want to pay ongoing recruitment fees, check out Outwork Staffing. Outwork Staffing can help you hire customer support, virtual assistants, developers - or whoever you need! You pay a one-time hiring fee after they find your ideal candidate, and that’s it-  there’s no additional costs, even if your new hire stays for years. If your new hire doesn’t work out, Outwork Staffing will find you a replacement, free of charge within the first 6 months of their employment. They also provide coaching to help you find, manage, and grow your global team efficiently. Visit outworkstaffing.com/startups to book a call and get $500 off your first placement by mentioning Startups For the Rest of Us. Topics we cover:  2:44 – NDIS software for providers of disability care 4:23 – Astalty’s rapid growth 6:34 – Finding success with a strong co-founder pairing 8:39 – Deciding to tailor the Astalty MVP 12:25 – Building a free Chrome extension, smart or lucky? 17:18 – Launching a paid plan and nailing the pricing 21:57 – Explosive word of mouth growth 25:19 – Selling at in-person events and in Facebook groups 31:02 – A clever way of raising prices 35:00 – Learning from fast iteration Links from the Show:  The SaaS Playbook TinySeed James Mooring | LinkedIn Astalty How Ben Chestnut Bootstrapped Mailchimp to a $12 Billion Exit Question & Answer with Jason Fried, Co-Founder, Basecamp – MicroConf Growth 2019 If you have questions about starting or scaling a software business that you’d like for us to cover, please submit your question for an upcoming episode. We’d love to hear from you! Subscribe & Review: iTunes | Spotify