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Success Champions


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Niajae is an influencer and entrepreneur. She is a visionary. She adds art and creativity in her business approach which is one of the many things that contributes to her unique style. Her goal is to help people identify their true desires and build the confidence and sharpen their skills to go after the life they’ve always dreamed of. She is a master strategist and sales funnel expert. Niajae creates motivational videos focused on mindset and manifestation. She believes you can have it all with the right strategy and implementation. She loves holding people accountable. She’s fiery, she’s fashionable, she’ll make you laugh but also light that fire under your ass to get it done. There’s no question she’s unique and embodies the phrase, ‘When art meets entrepreneurship.’ With her unquestionable energy and spark, Niajae is dedicated to seeing as many people THRIVE as possible. She is living that purpose through the launch of her new podcast Abundance Hack and release of her new book #AbundantAF.
Jon Gordon's best-selling books and talks have inspired readers and audiences around the world. His principles have been put to the test by numerous Fortune 500 companies, professional and college sports teams, school districts, hospitals, and non-profits. He is the author of 18 books including multiple best-sellers: The Energy Bus, The Carpenter, Training Camp, You Win in the Locker Room First, The Power of Positive Leadership and The Power of a Positive Team. His latest book is The Coffee Bean: A Simple Lesson to Create Positive Change. Jon and his tips have been featured on The Today Show, CNN, CNBC, The Golf Channel, Fox and Friends and in numerous magazines and newspapers. His clients include The Los Angeles Dodgers, The Atlanta Falcons, Campbell Soup, Dell, Publix, Southwest Airlines, LA Clippers, Miami Heat, Pittsburgh Pirates, BB&T Bank, Clemson Football, Northwestern Mutual, West Point Academy and more. Jon is a graduate of Cornell University and holds a Masters in Teaching from Emory University. He and his training/consulting company are passionate about developing positive leaders, organizations and teams
Maestro Roger Nierenberg enjoyed long, successful tenures as Music Director of both the Stamford Symphony in Connecticut and the Jacksonville Symphony in Florida. Guest conducting invitations came from the National Symphony, the Opera Theatre of Saint Louis, the Detroit Symphony, the Saint Louis Symphony, the Baltimore Symphony, the Indianapolis Symphony, the San Diego Symphony, and many other great American orchestras. Abroad he has recorded with the London Philharmonic and conducted at both the Prague Spring Festival and the Beijing Festival. He has collaborated with many of the most renowned solo artists and composers of our time. During his tenure with the Jacksonville Symphony, the seeds were planted that would lead Maestro Nierenberg to a startling departure from the conventional, through the unparalleled creation of The Music Paradigm. Through his experiences engaging with community businesses and civic leaders, he became curious about the challenges and opportunities faced by organizations in times of rapid change. He quickly realized how crucial issues of organizational development could be powerfully brought to life within an orchestra. Thus was born The Music Paradigm, which has taken Mr. Nierenberg to the podium of over ninety different orchestras, before hundreds of different organizations in twenty-three different countries. Many of the lessons learned on this journey are presented in his book Maestro: A Surprising Story About Leading by Listening which was honored in 2009 as the Best Leadership Book from 800-CEO-READ.
Time management was not something that came naturally to me. I was always the wing it guy and then see what happens. This worked for me in sales because other people kept their processes and kept all my stuff moving. Get the workbook here But when it came to my schedule I was all over the map. When I launched my business I took that same mindset along for the ride. Guess what; it didn’t work and I had to evolve to the mindset of a business owner. I had to become something more. Through a lot of hard work, discipline and pure tenacity, I figured out some processes that worked for me and my business. I hope this helps you step into the business owner mindset and get you to that dream faster. - Donnie Boivin
Lorianne Speaks is an expert in the area of Speaker/Author support. She amplifies the visibility of Authors/Speakers/Messengers while they do what they love - SPEAK! Lorianne has helped spearhead multiple best-selling book campaigns - editing, proofing, through to launch and social media marketing to help authors create buzz and momentum throughout the social media platforms and increasing their message World-Wide. Lorianne and her team have made it their mission to empower speakers to deliver their message by handling the rest of the business details! Prior to starting her own Virtual Assistance (VA) company, Lorianne had over 15 years of professional experience supporting Top 100 Thought Leaders as they built their businesses.
Becoming a Champion Course Champions Table Mastermind Success Champions Podcast Success Champions Facebook Group Free Stuff Website Sponsors Transcription: Here we go. Alright guys gonna be another fun episode, which you guys don't didn't get to hear. This is my second time trying to start this show because Bob got me giggling already. So I sound like a little schoolgirl over here, but this is going to be a fun show. So Bob and I talked a few weeks back and we just had a really good conversation and went all over the place. So I was looking forward to this one. But I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie success champions. I almost screwed it up again. Bob say you're welcome to the show, my friend, please. Hey, Donnie, Listen, man, it's good to be here with you. You know, my story is probably you probably don't have enough time on your podcast to hear the long boring parts. Trust me, nobody wants to hear all that anyway. So now listen, you know, I think you're going to find this maybe to be kind of weird, and your guests might find this to be a little bit weird, but Had the the advantage of growing up on the on the border of poor. And you people look at that and go an advantage. And then listen, I don't mean we went hungry or anything like that, but man, there were no extras. And and so that inspired me. I still remember being 10 years old and asking my parents for something and then telling me you wish don't have the money for that. And I don't even remember what it was Donnie, but I remember deciding, well, you know what I want it. So I'm going to figure out how to how to make the money to buy it. And that was sort of that was sort of the start of my ambitious journey, I guess. And I, you know, out of out of five kids, I think I was the only one with an entrepreneurial gene. And I guess some people are just wired differently. But I mean, you know, my sort of entrepreneurial journey started. I spent six months selling new Oldsmobile. That was an interesting business. And frankly, I really didn't like car business a whole lot, mostly because it didn't really fit my core. And I think when something just doesn't fit, kind of your core values, personality, whatever, you're just not going to be as successful as as you could otherwise be. Nothing listeners at all. So long time ago was 1986 when I was in the car business, but one thing that I did like about it was I in that business, I started earning four or five times the money that I was used to earning. And I said, Man, I don't like the car business, but I could get used to making this kind of money. And so the car business led to my really kind of first chance I had to be in charge Myself, which is four years selling residential real estate. And then that led to a 17 year career in frankly, what I thought would be my career portal, which was in financial services, love that business. But I found that I would see both clients I work with, and reps I hired and trained sabotage themselves and their financial success. And the more I saw it, the more bothered me and it but it was kind of the impetus that led to me studying the psychology of what I call the psychology of human action in action. You know, what in the world makes people do the things they do, or not do the things that they don't do. And I learned a lot about what, what really are the drivers for people, and it helped me a lot personally. And so I ended up writing my first book, and after 17 years in that in History, I decided I was going to start my own company strictly to do personal achievement training. And wrote the book, it was sort of a has a basics of what that was all about. It's called discovering your greatness. subtitle, the higher level thinking and action guide. And, interestingly enough, a couple years into running a new company, we're doing okay. But okay, wasn't what I had in mind. And I thought, you know, we need some better ideas here. And I really started studying about creative thinking and innovative thinking. And what I discovered was teaching people how to do that. Help them get a better image of themselves. And when you're thinking better about yourself, and especially if you can have some During that process, it's just a whole different world. And so most of the work that we do now with spearpoint solutions, is really involved with innovative thinking, training on that. I do do some consulting with companies to develop strategies, you're using those principles that I teach. Because I find sometimes, you know, I talk to CEOs or managers and they go, you know, you're pretty good at this stuff. Why don't you just help us develop some strategies and instead of training our people, so either way, it's good with me, and it's kind of a long and winding road to get where I am now, but I you know, what I found there's almost nobody. Now almost no successful person that I've ever met, had a straight pathway and Okay, well, what's your experience been with that? No, it's the same brother. It's the same. Yeah, I'm really fascinated with this whole idea of these kids. Right, you know, because that wasn't me, right? That wasn't my story. That wasn't my journey. I, I didn't think about starting a business until I was 40. You know, I tell everybody, I'm a late bloomer. You know, so I'm really, you know, this whole idea that that you're born an entrepreneur really, really floors me kind of a bit because I don't fully wrap my head around how you got to that space. Do you think it's mean? I mean, I know you said it was because you were 10 years old. Right. And that, you know, there was something that you wanted to buy, you couldn't buy, you know, but how does that translate to years of creation? years ago? Well, yeah, go ahead. Yeah, no, that's a good question. And I don't know that I was necessarily born an entrepreneur. Exactly. But I think some people are common one. wired to be ambitious. And some people just are okay with just being okay. And there's nothing wrong with either, you know, whatever fits you and your lifestyle and your goals. I think what, that's fine, right? I make no judgments. I just know that, you know, for for somebody like me to aspire to average it's just not in my DNA. I love that phrase. Here's why I'm catching a lot of buzz because of something I say on stage. But I mean, you pretty much just said it. It's really just this quote, you either get okay being okay. Or you get in the game, otherwise Shut the hell up. Because because there's a lot of people that keep telling the world I'm going to be great. I'm gonna do this. I'm gonna blah blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. But in truth, they're not Taking the action to do the things they need to do, to level up, scale up and go for it. So I, I wish people would, you know, stop taking on the world telling them how awesome they would be and truly just start enjoying the life that they have, versus making themselves feel miserable, because they're not doing the things they thought they should. That makes sense. Well, it does. And two thoughts come to mind as you're saying that I heard a long time ago, a phrase that stuck with me, says, When all is said and done, there's usually more said than done. True. Right. And look, talk is cheap brother. Nope. It's easy to do. It's way easier to do than taking action and getting your nose bloodied. Right, and tripping and falling, that it's much easier. So anybody can talk a good game. Yep. Right. But it's it, but it's people who it's the doers of the world. You know, I talked about a lot about developing better ideas. And I think that's a key critical component. Right? Because a bad ideas even perfectly executed is still a bad idea. Yes, but but, you know, I think you ought to start with with better ideas and better strategies. But having said that, the greatest strategies with the most perfect plan, not executed don't add any value to anybody. So you know, so you've got to have, you know, if I could make an analogy, in physics, you've got theoretical physicists and experimental physicist, and they're both necessary to move That field forward. So, so but the the theoretical, the theories of the theoretical physicists are only proven by the experimental businesses, right. But the experimental physicists are maybe not the best theoretical physicist. So it's sort of like the symbiosis between a songwriter and a gifted performer. A this is a this is a bit of trivia here. You know, Elvis Presley had I think 38 number one songs, or 38, top 10 songs. It was a bunch, right. Okay. And and how many of those did he write or co write? Man I don't and to have an answer that but but since you're asking I'm going to say zero It is zero. Now, you can become world famous as a performer. Right? And you don't have to be able to write songs. But the flip side of that is, you can write great songs and other people perform them. And you can be great that way too. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, the way I look at as a at creating winning strategies for people is, you know, I'm like the songwriter, and they're like Elvis Presley. Right? They gotta go perform those strategies in order for them to be great. Yeah, no, I love that. Yeah. Yeah. I there's and you I'm sure you've heard the hero's journey by Joseph Campbell. Oh, sure. Yeah. And I love this because one I grew up you know, watching the fantasy movies and reading the Lord ring books and all that kind of stuff. So I can totally vibe with this whole theory and philosophy out there. But but to what I love about it is this whole dynamic of the guiding the hero. And I think what you're saying is, in a sense when you're working with these companies, you're the guide but they're the hero and the hero is still gotta go slay the damn dragon. Right? They still gotta go execute No matter whatever plan you build out or anything, you know, you put together for them. They still got to put the work in and do the things to make it a successful endeavor. It's like in sales. You know, you can, you know, talk about cold calling all day long, but until you pick up the damn phone and actually dial the number, you know, you know you've got nothing is that pretty much? Hey, listen, that's that's a My apologies. I Hey guys, I failed to put my phone on Do Not Disturb. Let me let me let me correct that now. Sorry about that brother. Okay, so yeah, I should have known better. This is not my first trip around the block on. Oh yeah, we're gonna make this one though. Yeah I know I deserve it. I deserve 50 lashes with a wet noodle at dawn. You know it's kind of like in you in Lord of the Rings. These guys get these special weapons. Right Aragorn got the special sword. Frodo via Bilbo had the the special weapon his size, but they still had to wield those weapons. Yeah, right. So there's no doubt and I think you're spot on on what you're saying and You know, it's like, I've got a new book that's going to be out. By the time this airs, it should be out on Amazon. And it's and it features 101 great, sort of many business strategies. And and it's dinner can innovative thinking methods in there that people can use to come up with their own. But they still got to apply those things right, no matter how brilliant they are. Yeah, yeah. You know, I'm sure you've experienced this, you know, you're standing in front of a room, you're talking to a crowd. And after the you're done talking to them, whether it's a speech or a training, whatever, someone walks up to you and says, that is one of the greatest things I've ever heard. And I take it two ways. One, my ego gets stroked, and I'm like, Yes, awesome. I did my job. And then the second thing goes through my head is wasn't great enough. And I'll usually ask that person, you know, are you going to go back and implement what we talked about today? And it's weird the responses. And I'm curious, you know, one, have you experienced it? And to have you watched the almost shocked reaction sometimes when you've asked that question? Oh, yeah, I listen, I think anybody that's done any, any keynote speaking or any training and you're in front of large groups has experienced that. Look, I think if you're a decent speaker, you can get people motivated. Yes, but the but the challenge with motivation is, is it's temporary, right? It's easy to get, you know, people's adrenaline pumped up and, and there's nothing wrong with that. I think you ought to live your life in an excited enthusiastic fashion but What I prefer to do, and this is where I think, you know, the training on the skill set of innovative thinking, especially the way we do it, where it's, you know, it's practical hands on, it's not standing up in front of a room with PowerPoints, or just about, you know, me being a keynote speaker is, you know, inspire people with, with a mindset of, Hey, you know what, I can do this, because they've actually experienced it right there. And they've, you know, when we do our training with the game I invented, which is kind of a basic innovative thinking game, but it puts it into a competitive format and it's fun and people laugh. When we're doing that. In a training. I say here, two things over and over one people laugh their heads off, and and second is your people go As people coming up with ideas and strategies, like Wow, that's really good. But I'll tell you afterwards dying. People come up to me and some people, they'll tell me overtly, and some people just kind of see by their to change in their physiology. That, you know, they surprised themselves at how they were able to think in a way and come up with ideas that they didn't expect. And, and I can totally relate to that. But they you can tell, right, that it's just like, No, I'm over sharper than I thought I was. Right, I'm all better than maybe I've been giving myself credit for. And when you get that, then you know that you've inspired you sort of, you sort of inspire something that they had inside them all along, but they just weren't aware of it. Yeah, I love those things go ahead is most people have never bet on themselves. Right? So when you can put them in an environment where they are forced to do something they haven't done and I'm not talking about walking across a rope bridge or you know, some tire swing thing or something, you know, but taking an action that will mentally allow them to grow and get them out of their comfort zone. You are, in a sense, forcibly helping them to evolve, and you can see it, and it's awesome. I mean, I it's a really cool change in people. So how does your game get them to do that? Well, the game is structured in a way that I say it has three elements. One, it's got some structure in it, there's a gameplay format to, it feels like fun rather than work. And three, it embraces competitiveness. Right? And everybody, I don't care, the most non competitive person, you know, when they feel like they've got a chance to win, they get competitive. Yes. And so what the game does is a little difficult in just an audio only environment. But you've got two teams. One is the entrepreneur, the inventor, we sort of use those terms interchangeably. Second Team is the competitor. And then the third team who's not competing in that round is the customer. And so each team A and B, gets a set of 10 words, and they use this innovative thinking process to match any of those two words together. And come up with an idea for a product, a service or business. And it gets three minutes to do that you will think three minutes is that long. But people surprise themselves. There's there's great power I found there's great power in have to. Yes. Right you when you have to get something done, you will. And when you don't usually want this Chan. Yeah. So so then each team, you know gets a separate set of words, they're coming up with an idea in three minutes and at the end of three minutes. They each take one minute and present to the customer team, what their product service or business is, how it works and what the benefits of the customer is. And then the customer decides, hey, do I like this team's idea better? Do I like this team's idea better. there's a there's a scoring system and play moves around the board where everybody's playing each Roll, you know, at any given time, and listen, I had a client come up to me after a training session once and he said, you know what the greatest part of this game is? And I said, What says a with David? So let's that David, he said when you when you were and when you lose, you still win, right? Yeah it's a blast. I love that you know, and here's something else that that I think your game is is getting people to do. It's forcing them to make decisions and and you know, a lot of life people get stalled with the inability to make a decision. So when you put them in a group atmosphere and you say you got three minutes to come up with a service, you know, a product or anything else. That's awesome, because I mean, that's a fast decision. And a lot of people struggle with making decisions at that speed and living and dying with the consequences. That's brilliant, but I commend you for for coming up with something innovative like that in a training format that, you know, one brings people together makes them think outside of the cliche word the box but also forces them to make those fast decisions because you know, studies have shown you know, the faster you make decisions, the better you can do in life and business because you don't get stuck. Good. I Where did this whole game evolved from? It was it was it? Yeah, that's no, that's a good question. For most of my adult life, I really didn't picture myself as a creative individual. But as I alluded to before, it's great power and have to and and in aspiring to take our company to a better level. I said, You know what? I don't really think I'm great at coming up with good ideas, but probably some books written on creativity, right? And I've got a book, which I highly recommend you have in mind that's coming out. I highly recommend this one the most. It's called Tinker toys. sinker is thinker toys like the child's toy Tinker toys. Okay? Think toys, and they're probably, they're probably 12 dozen different creative thinking techniques in there. And I tell you, if you are not used to thinking creatively, and you don't really view yourself as being a creative person, some of those look a little bit complex at first, but I discovered one in there called combine a story play, which sounds complicated, but it's not. That I learned later was both Einstein And Da Vinci's favorite creative thinking method. And look, all it is, is combining two things together and seeing what a third four possibilities occur. Do you mind if I give you an example? Please do I'm fascinated. If I let me, I first have to let you know that people don't think in words they think in pictures, true apps, right? So if I say the word dog, you're not thinking about the characters for the letter D, oh, and G you're thinking about a dog that you know, have no right and probably a dog that you owner have. If I say the word kitchen, you're thinking, the the image of the kitchen pops into your mind, right? Yep. But if you start combining words together, especially nouns, if I combine dog and kitchen together, or kitchen and dog together the new possibilities, start eliminating From my imaginative ability, you know, here's what's crazy about that is kitchen dog, I didn't have a whole lot of thought process around. But when you said dog kitchen, the first thing that popped in my head was, could there be a company I know there's our that that could make dog biscuits, or you know, you know, dog food, things in it. I know there's a ton out there, but I would never start one of those type of companies. But that's where my mind went to really cool thought process. And if you have an imagined you had a set of those nouns, right, not just a couple of work from, but if you had a set of those, and you had a direction to work with those. That's the whole point of come up with an idea for a new product service or business or an improvement on something that already exists, right? And some of the stuff that emanates from from just that little simple method and playing that game is It's practically astounding. Have you had anybody come to the game leave their company and because they started a business? I have had, I've had a number of people tell me stories about the things that they're working on. But look, it goes back to the challenges you were talking about before. You know, just coming up with an idea. Even if it's a multimillion dollar idea. It doesn't do anybody any good, even you right? If you don't act on it. Like, I have people tell me all the time when they when they find out. I have written a book. Our company published another one that I curated the content for and I have another one coming out. And so I can't tell you it's hundreds probably people told me Oh, yeah, I'm thinking about writing a book to write right now. How long you gonna think about it right? Now so and yeah, it's it's the inaction and people man it's a we're all guilty in some regards I mean, with our businesses and things we need to be doing, you know, and then help, you know, for me going from an employee to business owner was such a damn leap because I didn't realize how badly ingrained I was, you know, ingrained with this employee mindset before I started running my company, and I still find it, you know, not creating a job versus a business for myself. And, you know, it's it's that when when you get mired down with all the stuff, it's remembering to put one foot forward and start knocking things down. So you can keep moving forward because what, as soon as all those spinning plates like you're the clown with all the plates Getting up in the air. You can sit there and be mesmerised, how pretty all those plates look. But until you start knocking those plates off the frickin sticks. You're not gonna be able to move anywhere and go anywhere, you're gonna stay mesmerised, and action takes care of all that. And the biggest thing people always say, Well, what action do I take? I'm like the first one in front of you. Hey, listen, amen to that. It's hard to steer a car that's in park. Yes. Said. Right. So, look at start taking some action. You know, in my first book, there's a after, after you set your goals, then what should you do when you start taking action and what you think is the best direction, right? Because I found that as you begin to take action, you can Little signals and clues on which way to go. It's like, it's like your goals, the destination you've determined to get to. They act like a GPS that you get off track. You're going to figure that out as you go. Right. But that phrase as you go, is the critical one. Yep. Yeah, yeah. This is gonna be fun. So I love it when people bring up goal setting. And here's why. You ready for this? I'm ready. Goal setting doesn't work is actually a D motivator. And here's what I mean. And I love having this conversation is when somebody sets a goal. They are nine times out of 10 setting a goal they already believe they can achieve then They're going to fake it till they make it, in a sense lie to themselves that they're going to get there. When you set yourself up immediately for failure, not planned failure, but to fail, you lose. So I quit setting goals A while back, and I flipped it. And I set milestones and here's what I mean. I believe you should have a general vision of where you want to go. Okay, General vision, what you want to do. But I'll always take it back to sales. Let's say you've sold $10,000 a month. And you come back to your sales manager and that last year, you sold you know, $120,000, you look at your sales manager and say, this year, I'm going to sell a million dollars. And that manager is going to ask you a cool how you going to do that? The answer is always I'm going to work harder. Right? You know, which never works. Right, you know, so what I would tell if I was that sales manager tell that young sales person is let's do this, instead of setting that million dollar quota let's see if you can do 11,000 Let's get you to 11,000 get there, and then we still do 11,002 months. Can we then get the 12,000 and then 13 and you start teaching incremental growth and start getting people to learn and evolve, how to level up and then start moving forward. And and I'm curious now hearing my philosophy of course, it's my show so I have to be right. Your opinion make it mine. Right, exactly. Right. thoughts. I mean, because I mean, for you We were brought up in this world of set goals, set goals. And as you get this executive area, and it's a big, hairy, audacious goals and all this stuff, but people don't do the work. Right goes back to our whole thought talking around action. They're not doing the work. So that's why I flipped everything over to milestones because people can wrap their head around. How do I just get to my next, my next small level so I can grow? Well, this is my philosophy on goals. goals should be two things. Now, I'm not saying that you should not have a one year, five year 10 year vision. You should, but five years is a long time. Right? Especially in this age, unless there's over 1800 days in five years. So there's no sense of urgency. So I think you should set your You should have a vision for one year, you should have a vision for five years, maybe even for 10 years. But your goals ought not to be any more than 90 days at a time. For the second thing, and here's why, because there's no sense of urgency. If you miss one day out of 1800. That's not that big of a deal. But if you screw up one day out of 90, much more of a big deal, right? Right. So there's a so there's a, there's a an urgency of action in that. But here's the other thing and you you alluded to kind of a 10 x goal, which I know is kind of a catch phrase in today's world. But the problem with a 10 x goal is it's not believable to you right? Right. And I tell people look set stretching Lee realistic goals. And while I say stretching Lee realistic, I use those two terms again. For reason, you know, the most you've ever made in a year. And this funny, I just laid a couple different mastermind groups. And we were just talking about this very concept and in a mastermind group session an hour ago. And I said, you know, it's the most you've ever earned any year. Or let's, let's break it down to a quarter most you've ever earned in a quarter is 50 grand. And you set a goal to make to 50. The first thought you're going to have when you look at that as go, there's no way Yeah, right. funnel, see how I can get there. It's too high of a plateau. But the example that I was using in in that group, I said, you know, $100,000 in a year, used to seem like all the money in the world to me, right? until I got there. And that became anyway Listen, once you hit that, then you can start looking at 150. Right. And once you hit 150, you know, it doesn't seem like that far of a stretch to 250. And you get to 250 and 500 doesn't seem too far of a stretch. Now I have a friend of mine 2018 and I think he made about two and a half million. And I remember years ago, we were together in the financial services industry. And I remember he had he had just hit his first hundred thousand dollar month and income. And he was going to hit over a million that year. Total. And he said, Bill, he said his bill, he said Bob, earning a million it. I don't work any harder than when I was struggling to make 60 grand. Right. But the thought process, the focus, the execution was way different. Right. Right. So, so that I, it's been my experience, you know, everybody has their own philosophy and I think you're, whatever you're doing that works for you. That's what you ought to keep doing. So, I think we're saying a lot of the same things because you were talking about, okay, you know, if you did 50 a quarter, you know, getting the 250s a leap. What if you're going from 50 and 60? Alright, cool. Next back believable right, next quarter, can I get to 70? And, you know, because you have to evolve as an individual because the person you are right now is not the person you need to become to get to where you want to go. You have got to level up or get okay being okay. Because because, yeah, there's so many people that are They're, you know, telling the world how awesome they're going to be, and not executing. And all they're doing is making themselves miserable. Enjoy the life you have. And understand that your income level if you live inside your means you'd have a very happy life. But most people don't want to do that. Right? Yeah, they look, most people would rather grow their income to meet their dreams instead of tricking their dreams to meet their current income. True, was it right? So, but look, so many people are trying to go so far they're trying to make quantum leaps. And I'm not saying that you can't do that because I've done that a couple of times, right? But it's not the quantum leaps that matter as much as the consistent growth. system it can be consistent, small group, right? What if you're What if each month or maybe even each week, you try to get 1% better? Just 1% right mean 1% that it sounds like nothing. And yet over time, if you got 1% better, even a month, right 1% better a month, over the course of a year or two or three. That's massive growth. Very much true. And you know, but people want to believe in the overnight success, which is there's no such thing. They want to believe that there's an easy button. They want to believe that there's, you know, some magic pill or something. They don't want to do the work. You know, and they don't understand that you've got to go through it to become it. Oh, that's a great phrase. Absolutely, I'm gonna get a T shirt, maybe with a habit. You know, but that's it. I mean is people want the soft and easy and sweet and fluffy route when they don't realize that if you go in to fail on purpose, you can actually level up faster. Wow, that's where you learn the most. Right, right. I mean, when you screw up it, I tell people, Donnie, the reason I know how to do a lot of things, right? It's because I've done a wrong almost every possible way. Right? Right. I've screwed up so much. Right. And you alluded to this before. Your most overnight successes take at least a decade. Yes. You know, but people Well, people don't see that right? Or maybe they're willfully blind. And so I will No, I don't see that you know this person. You'll put in all this extra effort that they, they did things I like to tell people look, you got to do stuff to be consistent about about progress, even when you don't feel like it. Yes. Right. Even when you feel like sitting your butt on the couch and watching that episode of Laverne and Shirley that you've seen three times, right? You just age the hell out of yourself. Just so you know. Well, okay, how about that, that that that rerun of Grey's Anatomy. There you go. There Big Bang Theory. Yeah, frankly, I'll gonna make happen. Your audience mad probably I don't get the appeal that show. Oh, I love it. Love it. Yeah, but you know what? That's why they make different colors of car exhaust. Everybody don't like the same stuff. That's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah. I never know this show is gonna go sometimes it's always fun. It's always fun. You know, you've been really doing some cool things on your ride. some really cool things on your journey. I mean, you've done some cool stuff. Where's all this taking you? You know, you got new books coming out. You've had a couple of books, you're doing some speaking. You know what's what's being on the horizon for you. Then the next big thing is happening in 2019. Hopefully in the first half of 2019. I'm not 100% in control of this. So I can just tell you this is my intent is We are launching up to this point all the training that we've done has been face to face. But we are launching an online training portfolio or a portal I should say. That is going to train people up on how to think innovatively. But listen, the, the most exciting part of that is, is we're creating a, an interface where that small business person out there who might have 25 or 50 or 100 people that are working for their company. They'd love to be able to be like Procter and Gamble or International Harvester GM, some of these big companies that have thousands and thousands of employees and, and they can sort of crowdsource innovation internally. Well, if you got a company that has 100 people, you can crowdsource Internally, but it's not a very big crowd, right? So what if what if there was a way for that small entrepreneur to access the knowledge, experience and imagination of this vast army of people that have been trained how to think innovatively and they don't have to add anybody to their payroll? Right? They don't have to, nobody's taken up any more room in their building. They're paying no more benefits, and they only pay for the solutions that fit them. Well, that's interesting. That would be kind of a big deal, wouldn't it? Be that level the playing field for them, it would make them able to compete and have all that talent, access to it, just like big companies do. And on the flip side of that, Donnie is these people that have been Train to think innovatively, they bring their own set of knowledge and experience to the table. And they can look at that and they can exercise that entrepreneurial gene without having to go start their own company. Because it gives them potential extra source of income. So, the win for everybody? Yeah, yeah, no, I like that a lot. Was this was this concept born out of y'all need or you saw a gap in the marketplace? No, I just see that that look. There's a yo you got now this advent of so much automation, especially with AI. that a lot of jobs that are being done by people now are going to be done by people in the future. They're going to be done. And I don't mean the final need mean along the way future I mean, the near term future right, the next 135 years 10 years at the most. And so those people are going to need different skill sets. I think, as I was telling him on his podcast recently, it's temporarily terrible for those people when they lose their job, right? But it's only temporary, right? Because once they acquire the new skill sets needed to do the 21st century work, they're probably going to end up doing work that's more fun. It's probably more fulfilling, and frankly, because it brings more value to the marketplace, it probably pays more. And so they've got to learn these new skill set. And Chief among those, I believe, is how to think innovatively and apply that to practical solutions in business in life. And the sad part is, is our traditional education system isn't doing that. Yeah. So, you know, you can complain about that. But as opposed to complaining about things, I like to do something about them. And I see this big gap that's unfilled that companies like ours, so I'm sure we're not gonna be the only one are going to fill in the gaps there to get people trained in the skill sets that they need, you know, to thrive in the 21st century instead of just barely survive. Absolutely. That's well done. But it's a it's a really, really, really cool concept. I think you're going to help you know a lot of people on their journey level up. Good on you. Good on you. Thank you. We have a goal to help millions. Yeah, I know I should. I know I shouldn't set a goal Donnie, but can be taught this whole time. I wasn't sure but dang just proved. That that's my vision. Anyway. I love it. I love it. I love it. You know You know, here's here's the thing. There are certain individuals in this world that can set a goal, like a guy like Gary Vee Gary V's biggest thing. He tells everybody he's gonna buy the New York Jets. Right? Right. Right, like Gary Vee may very well get there, because that drives him that motivates them that charges him up. But it's such a few minority of people that are that driven, you know, innately to get there. So I like your big vision. Now bust your ass to get there. Well, if you're right, it can do you mind if I throw out sort of another thought in terms of goals? What I have found is that people don't set goals based on what they really want. They don't set their true goals. If they set goals at all. They're setting them based on what they think they ought to want. what somebody else wants them to want. You know, my sales man, my sales manager said, This is my quota. So that's my goal, right? What does that mean? There's no, if you're not setting goals that are your true goals, then there's no emotional power to them. So there's no driver for action. So you're setting yourself up for failure. If that's the kind of goals you're setting 100% agree. Hundred percent agree. Well said, Well said. Well, brother, can you believe it's been almost an hour already? Time flies when you're having fun, brother. Well, you know, I mean, when you're around me, you have no choice but to have fun. So So. Yeah, well, no, I this has been a blast. And by the way, time flies when you're having fun or not, so you're exactly right. Exactly. Well, my friend, how do people find you? How do they get in touch with you? How do they reach out? How do they make funny Yeah, you know, look, LinkedIn. Like my home on the internet, I just I love that platform. If it's done right, I think it's extremely productive. And, and you can meet people from all around the globe. And so LinkedIn is probably the best place to find me. It is slash IN slash Bob Sager VOB SAG on. love it love it. Well, this is how I like to wrap up every show. And I do stump some people on this. So So stand by, if you are going to leave the champion to listen to the show entrepreneurs, business owners, people from 78 countries around the world that tune in Listen to this. If you are going to leave them with a quote, a saying a phrase, a mantra or a motto, something they can take with them on their journey, especially if they're stacked up against it and going through it. What would be that quote or phrase you would say? Remember this? Remember this this is from Arthur Ashe. Arthur Ashe said, start where you are. Use what you have. Do what you can Love it. Love it. That's Sage sage advice, my friend. It's been so fun having you on here. I've really really enjoyed it. Thanks for you know, coming in sharing your story and having some fun conversations and some laughs So So thanks for doing this but hey, Donnie, it's been fun being on what you Thanks for having me. Awesome. Well
Donnie B.: All right, guys. So I want you to strap it in today. So we're going to get pretty deep and heavy on this one. This is a hell of a story from a hell of a guy and my buddy, Patrick Mudge said, “Donnie, you got to sit down with Charlie and let him tell you his story and everything they're doing.” So just strap it in, guys. It’s going to be a really good episode. So I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie’s Success Champions. Charlie Strange. Welcome to the show, my friend. Please, tell us your story. [Music] Donnie B.: Hey, before the show starts, I wanted to jump in here and let you guys know that I could not do this show without the support of Point Blank Safety Services. Stacey and Michael McGovern over there have been a huge asset for the show, the Success Champions Family and everything we do and it's because of their support, we're able to bring you such awesome guests and such awesome stories. So do me a favor. Go check them out. Man, if you're in Texas and you need security officers or you need active-duty police officers on off-duty hours, protecting your sites, construction, security sites, commercial offices, whatever, go check out Point Blank Safety Services. You'll be glad you did. Now, guys, I'm not kidding. Strap it in today. This is a hell of a story. Here comes Charlie Strange. Charles S.: Thank you, Don. My name is Charles Strange. I'm the gold star father of Michael Strange. Michael was killed in action in August 6, 2011 along with 38 other men and 29 Americans and Bart, The Warrior Dog. It was the biggest single loss of life in Iraq and Afghan War and it was the biggest loss of life in the history of America. 22 men from DEVGRU, Navy Special Warfare. And it was the worst day of my life. Michael is my oldest son from Philadelphia. He grew up in Philadelphia. Not too far for your audience. From the Rocky Steps, the famous Rocky Steps. Michael ran the Rocky Steps before he went in. “Adrian!” We're Philly and cheesesteaks and Michael joined the military right out of high school and he took off. He took off from there and went to the Great Lakes. I flew out, seen him graduate boot camp. From there, he went to Pensacola, Florida. And from there, he finished first in his class for cryptology. Michael was a code breaker. They actually gave Michael the National Intelligence Medal of Valor. Only 17 have ever been given out in the history of America since World War II and the windtalkers. Given that at the NSA with Admiral Alexander under about five floors underground. But he went to Hawaii because he was a crypto and Admiral McRaven was there and he loved it. We flew out to Hawaii, spent 15 days with Michael in Hawaii and he became a surfer and he got really into the intel there and he started getting deployed on different missions. His buddy, I also don't want to forget about, who died with him, John Douangdara was there. John was the dog handler for the Gold Team DEVGRU. And from Hawaii, he spent a little over three years in Hawaii and then they put him on DEVGRU in Virginia Beach where he had to buy a home and he was with SEAL Team Six, the Gold Squad. His call sign was GY4, Gold Yankee 4 and I said, “Michael! How are you affording a $300,000-house here, Michael? You're 21 years old.” And he loved it and he had to be by the secret base and we still take the train down, drive down. He drived back to Philly because he missed his family, his friends and I'll tell you what, like yesterday was the day we killed Bin Laden and a lot of memories going by one night and Michael called me before that, before the Bin Laden raid. Two weeks prior, he said, “Dad, everything's getting shut off.” I'm like, “What?” He said, “I'm not going to be able to talk to you, Dad.” And I tried to get information out of him and me and Michael had a little code. Even if it was January, he’d ask me, “Are the Phillies winning?” That means, “Don't ask me any more questions, Michael.” Because they would give them a lie detector test every two or three months. And the first question on the lie detector test was, when was the last time you lied? So he wouldn't have me ask any more questions. And he said, “Look, Dad!” He was getting mad. He said, “Dad, look, if something happens, I'm sure you'll hear about it.” And that was the Bin Laden raid and yesterday was, every day is emotional. But he loved what he was doing. He loved protecting and serving his country and his family and August 6th, he came home from the Bin Laden raid in June and it was his birthday, June 6th. It was his birthday and we had a big party, his friend, Kevin and Danny and all of them and the girls. They had about four kegs and a hundred bottles of Jameson's in the pool. But he was different. He was different after the raid and something was going on. A guy by the name of Joe Biden opened his mouth and after the Bin Laden raid at the Ritz-Carlton in Delaware and told everybody, “SEAL Team Six killed Bin Laden.” Nobody ever heard of SEAL Team Six before that. And I don't know if that was one of the things that was bothering Michael after the raid. But he was different. He was different in June when he came home. He talked about a will. He never talked about a will before. A couple of other parents were telling me about the guys in Michael’s crew and they talked about a will and something was going on. Something was going on, Don. He calls me up. He goes back and he's getting deployed back to Afghanistan. I still have his voice on my cellphone here and he said, “I love you, Dad. I'll see you for Thanksgiving for Eddie and Maggie.” That's my sister. We always do Thanksgiving in Philadelphia, in Fishtown and, “I'll see you for Thanksgiving.” And I knew something was up, something was going on and he was completely different. He had just told me about the will. He told my sister. He told his buddies, his brother, his sister and he got deployed in the worst day of my life, Don. August 6, they came knocking on the door. There was like four or five different guys, CAOs, Casualty Assistance guys and they didn't really say much about what happened. They didn't know. Some of the parents said, they ran into a mountain. Some people say, you know. The guys who came to the door, God bless them. They were very nice. They said, “Your son passed along with a tragedy on a helicopter in Afghanistan.” A couple of the parents I know, when you hear that, that's a piece of your heart. Donnie B.: Right. Charles S.: You get rushed to the hospital and I was screaming and yelling and crying and it's like a nightmare. It's a nightmare that actually really don't stop. You learn to walk with a limp the rest of your life, Don. And there was a lot of questions about that August 6, 2011 and the Taliban, actually, after they killed them guys, it was on the internet a half-hour later, bragging. “We just killed SEAL Team Six.” How did they know who was in the Chinook? And there's a lot of questions and we did the ceremony in Arlington. 17 to 30 men were in Arlington. In October 2011, we went down to Little Creek and a guy by the name of, Brigadier General Jeffrey Colt did the investigation on what happened and we were in the auditorium, the 60 parents and he was explaining about the pilots. God bless the pilots and some other things. He seemed like, it took a while due to the presentation, but he was only over there for two weeks to do this investigation for 30 men dying and I know and I still don't know today, Don, about the black box which is really orange. And General Colt put his hands up in the air like theatrically and he said, “A flash flood came and washed it away.” I said, “Oh, you didn't find it?” And they said, they never found the black box and there are some people who say, there is no black box in them CH-47. These are some kind of recording device. Then he said, “An RPG hit the helicopter from 200 yards in the pitch dark and it was a lucky shot.” So I stood up and the Philadelphia in me came out and I said, “Did you just say lucky shot and all our sons are dead?” And I threw a couple of F-notes out there and a couple of gentleman from the military grabbed me. Yeah. So it was, you got to be kidding me? And I asked questions. I had some of the other parents asking questions. When we left there, Donnie, they gave us a folder, a binder and you don't look at it. Just hearing about how your son died. They told me, my son burned to death because of the fire, the fuselage which was all a lie. My son wasn't burned at all. I have pictures of him. Four months, I called Dover and asked for the autopsy and a whistleblower in Dover, God bless his soul, I still don't know who it is, sent me a disk and the paperwork and my beautiful wife, Maryanne, she took the disk. She said, “Don't look at it. Don't look at it.” And she looked at it and I said, “Pretty bad?” And she says, “Well…” I'm like, “Well, they said he was burned beyond recognition.” And it was in all the papers. All over the world, 38 skulls, 38 c-spines. No identifiable remains. So I said, “I want to see. I want to see.” And not that bad and I looked at the pictures of my son and he wasn't burned at all, Donnie. He jumped out of the helicopter or got thrown out of the helicopter. They weren't that high. They weren't that high. I have pictures of the helicopter where they gave us this binder in October after Jeffrey Colt got done doing the thing and there was 25 pages in there. In the first page, you can look at, as you open it up, you can't read it. It ran out of ink. I know the government's doing bad, but they didn't have no ink. So I called Admiral Sean Pybus. He was Commander-in-Chief and God bless him and I said, “I got a bad copy here, Admiral Pybus. Can I get another copy?” He said, “Well, Mr. Strange, we had a lot of complaints about that.” I said, “Okay, good. Send me another one.” He said, “We can't. We burned it.” I said, “You burned it? Already?” But in that packet was a disk and I put the disk in the computer and as you can tell by earlier, I'm not super suave. And there was like a hundred little blocks on this disk and I'm like … My wife, Maryanne, she says, “Let me look at that.” And she took it somewhere and she printed out 1,364 pages, Don. Donnie B.: My God. Charles S.: Which was encrypted with a virus. And the Taliban knew. The Taliban knew. Don, I'm going to read something to you from these 1,364 pages. I wasn't in the military. But in Jeffrey Colt’s investigation, he says, “For the Tangi Valley,” he says, “The next piece of reporting that I have that fits within the timeframe comes from May 11th, 2011.” And it's late May. There's no date on this and it's going to be, I'm reading it. There was a couple of blank spots. It's very brief. Again, it’s out of the task force and it says something to the fact that over 100 Talibans planned to travel from the Blank Province through the Tangi Valley to possibly shoot down the coalition force aircraft. They knew. A 100 Talibans were going to the Tangi Valley. I got it right here in front of me, Don. Right in front of me. Donnie B.: Wow! Charles S.: So these 1,300 pages, some of the other parents started asking questions and they're like, “How did you get that information? How do you know that?” And my wife wrote a letter to the gold star parents down in Florida, telling them how to download the disk to get the 1,364 pages. And then our phone got tapped and our computer got tapped and we won the first case in the history of America for the NSA when we went against the NSA and Obama down in Washington, DC. Judge Leon was our judge. You might remember, he called it, “Aurelian state that we live in.” And so we went to Congress. We went to the Senators. We went to President Obama when he was President. I met President Obama in Dover and tried over and over to try to get answers. I met President Obama in Dover. He came up to me and he said, “Michael changed the way America lived. Michael could do this and Michael could do that.” I grabbed President Obama by the shoulders and I sort of shook him and I said, “I don't need to know about my son. I need know what happened.” Then the Secret Service guys grabbed me. Donnie B.: I see a theme with you, Charlie. Charles S.: Yeah. And President Obama whispered in my ear and he said three times. He said, “Mr. Strange, I want to look into this very, very, very deep.” And we tried going back and not just me and my wife. We had other gold star parents. We’re just asking questions. We had a press conference at the National Press Club in Washington, DC. We had like 12 of the gold star parents. We had Allen West. We had General Boykin, General [inaudible] and this needs to be a congressional hearing. And we never got anything. We never got any answers and even if nobody's going to take accountability for the biggest loss of life and my son getting killed, just don't let it happen to someone else's son. Who put 38 men in a Chinook helicopter? 8 of the Afghans, Don, right before they took off, got off and no one's got on. Their names were never on the manifest. I'm like, and they told us this and then I think they wanted to not tell us that but, who were they? Who were they? They told us in Dover. They brought the Afghan bodies back to Dover and they had their flag over the coffins. My daughter said, “What's this?” I said, “That's the Afghans.” She said, “What the eff are they doing here?” That was our question. And they had to call the families from the Afghans and tell them they had the wrong people. They didn't know who they were. You don't know who they are getting on the helicopter? Their names’ not on the manifest? Who okayed all this? And then it was supposed to be a rescue mission for the Rangers and there was no … the Rangers, I’ve talked to personally, who were coming out said, “We didn’t need a QRF. We didn't need a Quick Reaction Force.” They had eight of the Talibans locked up. It's in the 1,300 pages. I got their names. I got their names. And then they said, “Well, we were after Qari Tahir.” Qari Tahir is a high-level guy. He was a big target. Qari Tahir, in the 1,300 pages, knew. Knew. He moved from village to village. Somebody was giving him all the information. Here you go, Hamad, I can't talk. I don't know these Middle Easterners. Harad, Hamad, Hamaz, Zaha, Guli, Nabi, Al-Qazar. The raid in Khawatir Village was targeting Qari Tahir, Ismael, Qali, Tahir had been located in another village during the raid, at the house of Habibur Rahim in the [inaudible]. Everything's written out here, Don. And I can't get no answers on who killed my son? Who made the call? It's crazy. So we went through all kinds of stuff. Donnie B.: Here's the crazy thing, Charlie, is one, God loved you, and I mean this wholeheartedly. I mean, I'm sorry for the loss of your son. It’s tragic. It sucks. No parent needs to go through that, right? But God loved you, man, because somebody's going to pick the fight, right? When something goes like this and I love your Philly freaking attitude, your vibe for you. I wouldn't want to be in your shoes in that room. But I love the way you've handled yourself all the way through this and fucking kudos for just picking the fight because I mean, I'm hearing your side of it. So I've got to go with what I'm hearing. And from what I'm hearing, man, shit, why the hell isn't there a further investigation? Why isn't there more people asking questions? And I get it, man. Some of the parents that have tragically lost their kids in this, they're like, “Okay. We just want to move on and get past it.” But I'm thinking, man, if I'm in your shoes, I'm still asking fucking questions. I want somebody's ass to fry because they made a bad call or they're a traitor to the freaking country. One of the two. Why the cover-up? And what dumbass put the disk in the freaking binder to you guys? Charles S.: Right. Donnie B.: Somebody's ass should get fired just for that stupid mistake on that side of things. So wow. What a shitty thing to go through, man. My heart hurts for that kind of stuff but fucking kudos for your boy for stepping up and doing what not many have the courage to do and fucking defending our country, man. Being a veteran myself, that dude is just freaking awesome. That's just awesome. So now, you guys are doing a lot of cool things for gold star families and you guys are holding events and bringing these families together and helping them get through some of these tough times they’re going through. Tell us a little bit about your foundation, your organization and what you guys are doing. Charles S.: Well, there's a lot of support at the funeral and after the funeral, everybody goes back to work. Everybody goes on vacation. Everybody is still going on. I'd be looking out my window saying, “My son died and everybody is still moving on.” And I was, the five stages of grief. Like I didn't know nothing about the five stages of grief and the first one is denial. No way. He was just sitting on my couch. We were just at a party and the second stage is anger. I was shopping in a food market and some guy had a towel around his head and he had to call the police on me for that one. My wife was at my back. Somebody was going to get it, Donnie. You know what I mean? The third one is bargain. And God don't bargain. And the fourth one they say is depression. I don't like to use that word. I think it's the Grim Reaper and the fifth one is acceptance. But like any other ones, what I learned is, with the loss of a son or a daughter or burying a child, it don't stop. It just keeps coming. I buried my father. I buried my cousin. I buried good friends. Not even in the same circle is burying a child and I ran into another gold star father named, Grant Smith. His son Tristan Smith was killed in an IED from Philadelphia three years prior. So I got in touch with this guy and we met for coffee and he started crying and he was angry and I felt good, Don. I was like, “This guy's just like me. We’re both fucked up. All right!” And I came home. I told my wife. I said, “We should bring more parents together.” And my wife, she started reaching out to some gold star parents and we did it. I said, “Let do …” in Philadelphia, we call it Beef and Beer and some guy named Drago, a Navy SEAL named Drago came along and him and his wife, great wife, Rachel and their two kids came down and we had an Irish band, of course, Blackthorne, donated their time and we raised some money and we brought like 20 gold star parents in for a weekend and we had a grief counselor there and we get the parents to talk. I want to hear from the other dads and moms. How do you get through the birthday? What are you doing in the holiday? How do you get through every day? And from there, the other gold star parents started telling other gold star parents. “When are you doing that again? Are you doing that again?” And I was like, “Well, okay. We'll do another one.” And we went to Wildwood, New Jersey and we did Thursday to Sunday and we brought some gold star parents from Michigan, Heath Robinson’s dad, he was on Team 6, Heath was a sharpshooter and we brought Debbie Anne who lost her son and they never seen the ocean. They never seen the ocean. So it was really cool and we did a lot of healing in Saturday night, whatever area we’re in, we ask the VFW or American Legion or [inaudible] Club, the hostess for dinner. We get the motorcycles, the cops, the firemen involved and my wife makes these beautiful reefs, biodegradable reefs and we go to the ocean and we say our sons’ names and we say a few prayers and we throw them, knowing that we'll see our sons again on the other side. We went to Tucson, Arizona to this guy Mike and Bonnie Quinn's house and we had a beautiful hotel out there and we had gold stars. We had Bob Huff. His daughter was Samantha Huff, the first girl killed in Iraq. My man, Bob and we had about 38 gold star parents out there. So the healing begins in meeting these other families and just to know what you're walking into, knowing you're not alone because a lot of the gold star parents go, “Don, nobody cares if my son died.” I said, “There is people that care, man. There is people that care.” I brought my buddy in, Kali Thomason. He's from Louisiana, Shreveport, Louisiana and you think I got an accent. I live about 60 miles from them duck boys. That's where I live at. “You better look for the gators, Charlie.” You can look Kali up on Facebook. He was putting up on Facebook, “My son died because of the rules of engagement.” His son was, they had to pull over to the side of the road. He was in the middle with some brass. And the van coming down since they pulled over drove right into the middle loaded with bombs and killed his son, Josh. But yeah. Meeting Kali and we brought Kali down to Ocean City, Maryland in the Royal Princess Hotel. We had 36 gold star parents and I tell you what, they put the fire engine trucks. They put it in the newspaper. Me and my wife go wherever we're going to go for the weekend retreat with the gold star families, we go down like a month early to let the VFW Post know, the police and firemen and they put it in the newspaper. There was people out in the street, Don with the flags. They brought the bugler. Each city that we've been to really rolls out the red carpet. But we're a small foundation. We need help. Donnie B.: Well, hold on. Let me jump in here just one second, Charlie. A couple of things. One, you guys are close because obviously, it's your kids, right? I mean, that's not going to be something that's ever going to be [inaudible] place in your life, right? So it's really close to you. But I want to say it for all of us that aren't gold star families, man. It's not that we're not thinking about it. We're just not as close to it as you guys are. I mean, you guys are there every day. But I want you to also recognize that everywhere you've been, look at the good people that show up to support. I mean, at the end of the day, man, they're special people in this world. And unfortunately, society as it is, as a whole, likes to just paint a bad fucking picture on everything. So if you turn on the false shitty-ass news and all the other BS out there, all that you're going to see is the negative stuff. But for all of your friends that you guys are doing these amazing things for, just remember, it's not that we’re not thinking about it. It's just, we're not as close to it as you guys are. And we show up. Because there's still some of us that that sacrifice means a fuck ton to a lot of us. So I just wanted to get that out. Now, tell us about your damn foundation. Charles S.: Thank you, Donnie. Thank you. And that means a lot, man. That means a lot. Thank you. Donnie B.: You get me all freaking choked up here, Charlie. Charles S.: I make you cry. I do. My wife's over here on the side crying and tearing up. A piece of my heart's missing now, Don and meeting these other gold stars, we got a big event coming up. We got Drago coming back, November 2nd with a guy by the name of Rob O'Neill who’s coming back from his second time. One of Michael’s buddies. A lot of you guys’ buddies and we're teaming up with another foundation called Operation First Response, Peggy Baker and Nick Constantino’s. And we're doing it, November 2nd. I know you guys don't like to come to the East Coast over here, Donnie. Donnie B.: That’s cold-ass weather in November, dude. You’re crazy as hell. Charles S.: We’ll get you a Philly cheesesteak at [inaudible]. Donnie B.: That’s awesome. Charles S.: In case you do, Nikki and Joey bag of doughnuts and Rocco and all the guys. Yeah. We’ll take care of you. But November 2nd, seriously, Pat Mudge is speaking, one of Michael's close friends. Donnie B.: Just really quick, Charlie, for the ones that have listened to this podcast all the way through, if you guys go back before, I think, Episode 50, someone there, you'll hear Patrick Mudge’s story, man. And let me tell you, Patrick Mudge is the only interview I've ever done where I think I said two words through the whole thing, man. When that dude tells his story, holy fuck. That dude went through some shit. So great dude, great story. So to see him speak in person will be huge. Charles S.: Pat spoke at our little dinner event last year when he came down. He was close with Michael. It's hard, man. And you got to ask God for help. A guy opened up the Bible to me a little bit about Jesus and He died on the cross for us and His only Son and so we meet new veterans and asking God for help and we meet these other great gold star parents from all over the country, Don. We’ve had 250 gold star parents. We’ve done weekends in Pennsylvania, Jersey, Ocean City, Maryland, Tucson, Longmont, Colorado, Washington, DC, Lenox, Massachusetts and we need help with the airfare. We need help with the hotels because the parents already paid the ultimate price, right? I don't like saying that. Ultimate sacrifice. I don't like that shit. It was no sacrifice. My son had a gun in his hand when he died, you know what I mean? And that fucks with me too. He was alive for 15 minutes and nobody came to help him in my nightmares. Donnie B.: Here's the thing, man, is you guys are doing a freaking awesome thing, right? It's a hell of a thing you guys are doing and through your story, what people are able to feel, see and embrace is, this is a tough fucking thing and I personally can't relate to any of it. I've never lost anybody that close to me, right? But I will tell you, the fucking strength that you guys have to bring these families in across the world, across the US and be able to put them in one place, one room so you all can freaking go through this shit together and then you realize, you're not fucking alone is huge, is really, really, really huge and fucking kudos. I mean, there's always somebody who picks up the torch and says, “Come sit by my fire,” and you guys are doing it. Charles S.: Thanks, Don. Donnie B.: Yeah. Really freaking awesome. Charles S.: Thank you. Yeah. It helps. It helps meeting these gold stars. My friend, Jeannie Cathcart, his son was Michael Cathcart and all over, all over and we did one up in Lenox, Massachusetts, the gold star families with Derek Benson's dad there, Fred and a couple of the families from Extortion 17 came. Doug Hamburger and his son, Patrick was on there, out of Nebraska, full-time National Guard. And I'll tell you what, the one up in Lenox, Massachusetts, it's called Pug’s Farm. The guy bought a Chinook helicopter, Don. He bought a Chinook helicopter and has a memorial site. It’s called Pug’s Farm. If you're ever up in Lenox, Massachusetts, it's free. It's a beautiful memorial site. A guy by the name of E.L. Shapiro. Just amazing site. So we did a weekend up there with them. That was, going inside the Chinook, seeing the pictures but it's healing. Something else that’s healing too. You learn to walk with a limp every day and some days are harder than others. Sometimes, that Grim Reaper comes in on you and then it's good to … through the foundation, I met Mike Anderson. His son was a Marine. Fast-track, killed in Fallujah. His son got hurt. He was out, came back and then got shot right through the heart. Mike Anderson, good friend of mine. And meeting Michael and his daughter, Ally. Sometimes, we bring the siblings in if they're over 18 and they asked me to do the siblings and as you can tell, I'm not a doctor. I do have a PhD though, Donnie. Plumbing, heating and drainage. See, we learned to laugh again, bro. We learned to laugh again. Donnie B.: I get that, Charlie. I come from a blue-collar lifestyle. So I get that, man. That's awesome. Charles S.: Absolutely. I was in the laborers’ union in Philly. So that's the Michael Strange Foundation. You can see videos on Michael Strange Facebook. You'll see all the videos, all the gold star parents, different events. But November 2nd is our big dinner. Everybody's welcome. We’ll have it up on the website in about two months so you can buy tickets online. We’ll have auctioneer. Pat Mudge is going to battle for us, get some stuff donated. We need some donations for the auction. Rob O’Neill is coming in to speak. He's going to be there. Drago, Pat, a couple of veterans from Afghanistan and Iraq through Operation First Response who will talk for a few minutes to tell their stories, how Operation First Response helps them and then of course, I have some gold stars there from all over the country just to do some healing and show people that freedom is not free, babe. Freedom is not free. 9/11, man, Boston Bombing, San Bernardino and I know Michael did some things in this country to stop certain things that even went on here and you never hear about it and that's what I love about everybody who serves in the military. To sign that line and to protect us for our freedoms, man. For our freedoms. We live in the greatest country in the world. Donnie B.: That's it. That's it, man. That's it. Charles S.: President Trump had me down to the White House. He was great. He asked me to bring ten gold stars down there. It was a trip. They even put it in the newspaper in Philadelphia. “Family and Fawn Meets the Trumpster.” They put the Trumpster up. They had to throw a little shot in. But he was good. I had 15 minutes alone with him. Me and my wife. Him and the First Lady. He opened up an investigation about Extortion 17. I gave him some of them 1,300 pages. He actually read them in front of me. I said, “President Trump, my son got killed in a 1960-helicopter, man, with 30 other guys.” He goes, “You see what I did about that? I just signed a bill. $500 million gives them new damn helicopters for them.” Then I said to him, I said, “When you drop that mother bomb over there,” I said, “Next time you call Charlie Strange from Philadelphia and drop like eight or nine on them motherfuckers. Kill them all. Kill all them fucking people.” He goes, “Yo, yo, yo.” I said, “Yo, yo, yo?” I said, “Your son is still here. My son's not.” Then he gave me a hug and then he invited me back for Christmas dinner, Don. Yeah. That was cool. Donnie B.: So tell the family. You're not going to be home for Christmas. You're going to be chilling in the White House. Charles S.: We were in the gold room, the green room, the red room. They were feeding us all kinds of stuff. They did a beautiful tribute to the men and the gold star families. The First Lady, she was elegant. She said, “I don't know what you're going through. I can't understand what you're going through. I can't imagine.” She read a beautiful poem. General Kelly was there. He lost his son. And that's what the gold stars. You get a gold star pin and a folded flag. And we've had some of the parents, some of the mothers come to our weekend and they’re wearing their gold star pin now and another lady says to her, “Man, I like that pin. How do I get one of that?” People don't know what a gold star is and you don't want that gold star pin. It’s the pin that nobody wants but I wear it with honor. My son wore his uniform with honor and what he did to protect and serve for our freedoms and he loved what he did. You hear all kinds of things on our weekends. The one guy said, “I know what you're going through.” His neighbor told him, “I know what you're going through. I had my dog for 12 years.” “You lost your dog? I lost my son. I don’t think you know.” We understand. You know what I mean? Just don't say something like that to me the first year it happened. Donnie B.: Right? Charles S.: Michael Strange Foundation. Donnie B.: That's awesome, brother. Charlie, I got to tell you, I'm honored to have you come on here and share your story. I mean, because you're right. There's a lot of people that don't understand what the gold star families are. I mean, it's thrown around every once in a while but not a lot of people fully understand what it means. So thank you for coming in and really sharing Michael’s and your story, your family’s story. Thank you for everything you're doing. It means a ton and I just have so much respect for what you guys are doing. You're doing so much for other families going through it and thanks for being the light for those people. That's a really truly beautiful thing. How do people get in touch with you guys? So what's the website? What's the best way for them to reach out to donate, to get help if they're a gold star family member that maybe don't know about you guys, those type of things, how do people get in touch with you guys? Charles S.: The best way for the gold stars is Michael Strange Facebook. Message me, Charles Strange Facebook. Message me. Our PO Box is Michael Strange Foundation. PO Box 6038, Philadelphia, PA 19114. Philadelphia, PA 19114. The PO Box is 6038, Michael Strange Foundation. We got PayPal. We got PayPal on You see some t-shirts for sale. You'll see the PayPal in there. We could really use your help. We could really use your support. We're a 501(c)(3). All the money goes to paying for the hotel, the food, the plane tickets and we give the parents a little present at the end, a little gold star bag and it pays for the lodging and that's what we need help for. We need to raise money for these gold star families. Because it's not like after you burry a child, you wake up and go back to work in two weeks or three weeks. I did. I went back to work like two months later, but I couldn't stay for a full week. I go every day but I'll break down and the Grim Reaper ain't no joke and then you wipe yourself off, you drink a bottle of water, you smoke a cigarette, you wash your face, you go back out, you're good for another hour and then bam! It's like, “Damn. My son, you got to be kidding. I got to go to a cemetery to see my son? Who the fuck came up with this? Who the fuck put all these guys in a helicopter?” But the only thing for me is meeting these gold star parents and learning what you're walking into, knowing that you're not alone and it is God working through me. Believe me. That’s the other thing. I give God credit for everything. If it was up to me, I'd be smoking some left-handed cigarettes and drinking, but I don't do that. I probably shouldn’t have said that. Donnie B.: You’re fine. We live in a new time, Charlie. Everybody smokes. Charles S.: I know it is God working through me and meeting that other gold star to start this off and my wife, God bless her, she was Michael’s stepmom and she's like my rock and my boulder. And like you just said, a guy named Shawn Greener from Delaware, Navy veteran, he did some of our counseling. We had another guy from Wildwood. We're looking for a grief counselor actually, Donnie. If anybody … I just interviewed a gentleman yesterday. He's becoming a doctor. He works at a couple of VA’s. He's going to get back to me. If anybody wants to reach out that does grief counseling, we could use some support on that too. My friend in Delaware is not doing too good. He's going through some problems. But yeah. We need a grief counselor. I got two on the line but they’re not sure. We're having an event, June 21st in Jersey, Edison, New Jersey. We’re having a weekend for gold stars we have gotten from Florida, Chicago, coming from all over. So we could use your support. We have PayPal. You can order some shirts and also, our PO Box is on the foundation page. Donnie B.: Awesome. Awesome. Charlie, thanks so much for doing this. Thanks for sharing your story with us. I really appreciate it. Now, here's how I like to wrap up every show. And I do stump some people with this, Charlie. So stand by for that. If you were going to leave the Champions who listen to this show, 91 countries that tune in every day to hear the stories of the Champions that have been through heaven and hell in their life to figure out what they're going to do and where they're going, if you were going to leave them with a quote, a phrase, a saying, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey, especially when they're stacked up against it, what's that quote or phrase you would say, “Remember this…”? Charles S.: My one phrase I would say would be, “Easy does it, but do it. Remember the fallen and freedom is not free.” Donnie B.: That's awesome, Charlie. Just freaking beautiful, my friend. Thanks so much for doing this. Keep rocking. Keep being the torch for those gold family members and we're fixing to show up to support you, brother. Appreciate you. Charles S.: Thank you so much, Don. Thank you so much for your service. And thanks for helping us. Donnie B.: Absolutely. Charles S.: God bless, brother. Donnie B.: Man, if that story didn't hit you, wow. Charles, I got to say bud, I'm really grateful for your time coming and sharing your story on the show and everything you guys are doing. If you guys would do me an honor, take a minute and just think about the guys who gave it all so we could enjoy the freedoms that we have. Think about all the guys that are deployed overseas now protecting our freedoms and by God, thank a veteran when you see them. They've been through hell in their own form or fashion and those kind words go quite a long ways and for the veterans, when somebody thanks you, take that, receive that and own that for me, because you deserve it. I know I struggled the longest time when people said, “Thank you for your service.” I found a great phrase that allowed me to continue to embrace it because it's not about them thanking me. It's about how it makes them feel that they can do something for us. So anytime they thank you, just turn around, look at them and say, “It was my honor.” Embrace that. Guys, I hope you come hang out in our Success Champions group on Facebook. Over 600 members and growing strong. It has become a family. It has become networking. It is a bunch of badasses all going forward. We are creating Success Champions on a daily basis and let me tell you, you want to come hang out because as I am a Success Champion, so are you. Just go to Facebook, type in ‘Success Champions’, click on groups and we'll see you there. [Music]
Donnie B.: All right, guys. I'm looking forward to this one. I'm bringing out a new buddy of mine, Brad Milford and dude, he's got a really cool story and I love some of the things that he's doing. So I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie’s Success Champions. Brad, my new friend, tell us your story. [Music] Brad M.: I love that. You’re just like open mic day. Donnie B.: Yeah. All day long. Brad M.: I love it. I have a pretty interesting and fascinating story and I love speaking into it. So I appreciate you having me on. It's an honor to be here and let me just start out like, when I was like seven years old because I'm just a serial entrepreneur. When I was seven years old and I'm kind of a deep guy. So you'll talk me through that, I’m sure. Donnie B.: Yup. Brad M.: When I was seven years old, I came to realize, see, my Mom and my stepfather had an argument and this was one of those arguments that they ended the relationship and I also never knew my father and so when they split, I'll just be honest, I realized I needed attention. My mom was working all the time. So now, she was a single parent, four children. I just needed some attention. I really just wanted to be loved but the truth is, I didn't know how to get that. So I went on a path. I took a path and I became the class clown and I went through that stage and you know, I did all kinds of entrepreneurial things in succession with that. And perhaps, that's what has brought me here today. I went from there. I was that guy who was turning pop bottles and I had three paper routes and I was changing the marquee on the local movie theater. I mean, I did everything I could to generate, you know, to buying gum and selling it for twice the price. Those types of things, I went on to. At 16 and 17, I left home and went on to take a sales path up and down the East Coast. I hit almost all the beaches. Well, not all but a lot of beaches and that was fascinating. Then I went to the Navy. So what I came to find through this is that I was searching for something. I kept searching for something. First, I thought it was attention. Then I thought it was just camaraderie. That's why I went to the military for travel. Then I thought it was culture from around the country. Donnie B.: Wait. I can't let this go by really quick. You know, thank you for being my taxi service. I was a jarhead so … Brad M.: I love that. I love that. I knew it right away when you said that. Donnie B.: Just for our listeners and they know I'm going to do it but you know, I really appreciated being in the Department of the Navy which just happened to be the men's department. I'm sorry, Brad. Keep going. Brad M.: Great. I love it. I love it. Yeah. So I was fascinated by the Navy almost 6 years. I got out just a little bit early, a couple of months early. But it was fascinating. I learned a lot. But I also learned that it wasn't camaraderie that I was searching for and so I came out with a ton of experience. I was a cryptologist. So I studied, they call us ‘spook’. We were always in what’s called a SCIC, special compartmented information center. And they're highly locked up. We were locked up in rooms with no windows and that kind of stuff. But it was tremendous and I did learn a lot about camaraderie but I also learned that that wasn't the thing I was searching for either. Came out of the Navy, in a shortened version of this story, believe it or not, and I fell into building stadiums. So a buddy of mine from the Marines introduced me to building stadiums and I started out as a laborer. But then a year and a half into that, my entrepreneurial mindset, I looked around and said, “Guys, why are we working for a nitwit? We could do this ourselves.” And so we branched off and then two weeks later, we had our first $250,000-contract which was amazing and then we built that business. And then on to another business and a third business in that recreation industry. So playgrounds, tennis courts, basketball courts. Anything you basically have ever seen in a park, I began to become experienced in. And those businesses were awesome. But … there's always a ‘but’ in these stories, right? Donnie B.: There almost always is. Brad M.: But through this search, I still wasn't finding what I was looking for. So it came to over 14 ½, 15 years in that business which was amazing. It was extremely lucrative. It paid me very well. I made tons of money but I'm not the metaphorical guy that came to the top of the mountain, looked over and said, “Are you freaking kidding me? Is this all there is?” I mean, there's fun stories and I love telling stories. I mean, I had come from the military and I had come from a relatively poor family. I'm sure there's worse off but we didn't have a whole lot. A single parent, four children, we didn’t have a whole ton of money. I came from that poverty mindset. So I had a lot of stuff going on. I went from that to the military, heavy drinking environment, to construction, heavy drinking environment, needless to say, I had a relationship with alcohol. Not an alcoholic but I noticed around my circles that that's what everybody was doing. And I'm going to just be frank here, what I came to find when I came to the top of that mountain was, I was surrounded by people. So it looked to all my friends like I had an amazing life. I was making a ton of money. I had people around me all the time. I had a team of 22 people who work for me. They were all amazing. But I was so empty inside. When we go to the bars, there would be 40 people lined up and we'd all be “having fun”, but it wasn't fun. That wasn't real friendship and frankly, I was surrounded by people but I was empty and alone. So I knew something was wrong. I definitely knew something was wrong and I know that’s deep stuff but it's real and that's what I pride myself on is the reality of this. I mean, there's a lot of people in life who appear to us at times to be really happy or to have the greatest of this or the greatest of that. But they're carrying this thing inside them that does not represent that at all. So I went on a search, a different search to figure out what that was. So that was about 12 years ago and I gave up that company. So I was making a ton of money. I literally gave up all of that. Six-figure plus, the money is not important. But you know, high amount of income. I had no idea what I was going to do but I knew one thing. My son was just reaching his high school years. So those two things kind of came together at the same time and I decided to just make a massive shift. I said, “I'm not going to, 1, waste the time with him because I have one child.” So I'm not going to waste the time with him. I'm going to go home, be there with him through his high school and college years and I'm going to figure this thing out, whatever this thing is. So I did that very thing. So I went from high six figures to zero. Absolute zero and that was a struggle. So talk about overcoming some adversity. I knew there were a number of things going on. One, my character was and you said it was okay to swear so I love that. My character was shit. The one good thing that I had done along the way was, I had always listened to some kind of audiobook because I was traveling. Building stadiums, building playgrounds, tennis courts. You're traveling constantly. So I’m just a road warrior. So I listened to, I'm going back a few ways, so cassette tapes. Donnie B.: Oh, wow. Way back. Brad M.: Probably some listeners that don't know what those are. Donnie B.: Brad, I'm just curious, were dinosaurs really that big? Brad M.: They sure appear that way to me. Donnie B.: All right. Cool. Brad M.: No, that's awesome. So I had some mentoring via audiotape, if you will back at that time. But I had traveled so much. So from the time I was 16 to that time, up to like 12 years ago was consistent travel. In the stadium industry, one day, I was in Reno and the next day I was in, Staten Island, New York. I mean, it was real, heavy travel. So I don't like to waste time. I'm a maximizer. So that was a way that I could continue my education. So I knew based on that foundation, I knew something was seriously wrong. I just, I couldn't put a finger on it. I just couldn't put a finger on it. But I knew it had something to do with character and it had something to do with leadership. What I know now that I didn't know then is I had, yes, I was “successful” but there are levels of success. I've defined those. At least my definition of those. What those levels are, I'm happy to share those with the listeners. But I came to find that my leadership lid, as I said, was capped. So that was a successful business but quite frankly, I couldn't have taken that any higher because I didn't have the capacity to be able to do that. Even having three, you know, I was doing about $7 million for each company which is an incredible feat for a guy with what I’ll say, a piss-poor background. Not bad at all. And I think people can do that. But there are some levels of success and I'd love to share those with your listeners to drop something really practical. I believe the first level is struggle. So I see now, today, looking back, we tend to come through a thing and have a breakthrough and then that gives us the ability to look back through it and see others in that space, if you will. And so struggle is the first and I think people are reaching out because there's so many pieces to the puzzle and that's the first level, struggle. Then the second level is structure. When we begin to build a business, we begin to structure systems, all these things that people talk about, they're not so sexy. But they're real. Once you begin to get to that structure, then it becomes a real company. The third level actually is striving. So here's how I describe striving. When you wake up in the middle of the night and you have these ideas and your mind is just turning like a million miles a minute, that's what I call striving. And so every entrepreneur has had these moments of striving and what happens is, we bounce back and forth between these levels as we're learning. The next level is success. That's when you really, when you start to move through these levels and you really start to produce consistently, predictably, you start to really become successful. But there are levels beyond that too and I don't hear a whole lot of people talking about it. So I'm really passionate about talking about those levels. They’re excellence. That's above success. And then you have what I call, brilliance. There’s mastery and then there's brilliance and then there's genius. And if we look at this as like a tier or a ladder, it gives us a format to know where we are through that process. And I love speaking into those because I've heard a lot of people say, “Wow. I've never heard anything like that before.” And I can see how I'm filtering back and forth through those levels. Donnie B.: Now, this is really, really interesting. I want to talk a little bit about your background, then I want to dive into … no. How about that? We heard your background. I love these levels. Here’s why I love the levels, is I can see myself in those levels and it's not often that I can do that when I talk to people, right? When they hit me with a philosophy that maybe I haven't fully heard before and I can see where I'm at, right? So I went through the struggle because that's how I figured out who I was. I'm in the structure/success side of things right now, right? Because I do have some very cool successes. I do have some very cool wins but I'm building the structure for stability portion of the company, right? And that's really, really where I see it. So I'm curious, is, I'm looking at success and everybody defines it to their own terms, right? I'm looking at success right now by micro-wins and different win levels. Do you put a definition to success? Which I find hard to believe but I'm just curious if you do. And then, how do you go beyond that, right? If that makes sense. Brad M.: I love that. It makes perfect sense and I absolutely love the question. It’s a fantastic question. So I created those structures so that I could label them because I've come through them in different industries. Not just that one industry. So yes, I mean, I do think success is subjective. It’s relative. It's different for everybody. For me though, what I came to find is that, so I said I was on a search, right? Donnie B.: Yeah. Brad M.: I came to find that it wasn't any of those things. That my meaning, so I'm one of those guys who was searching for purpose all my life. “I want to find purpose. I need to find my purpose. I need to find my purpose,” right? How often do we hear those things? Purpose is not out there. It's just not out there. So there's too many people. I'm so passionate about this. There's way too many people and I love Simon Sinek and I think he's convoluted this, I mean, he has a great subject. He's a great leadership teacher. For anybody that has heard of him and he does this great stuff about why, right? And why has been talked about. It’s talked about all over the Internet now. However, I think they convoluted the situation. One, purpose is not out there somewhere. Purpose is inside. And I want to encourage people to actually look inside. It’s not out there. The more you're out there looking for it, you think it's, you want to be this or you have to be that or you're ashamed because you're not good enough. All these things that we carry around, we get really down deep. So I did say I was a deep guy. I tried to warn you. It's not out there. It's inside. And when we realize that, when we come to realize that and we look in, then we begin to grow. That is when I believe that you find true purpose. I mean, that's where you find true success because it's not out there. Those are all just, those are all byproducts of the thoughts that we’re carrying inside. Donnie B.: So this is interesting. I 100% agree with you. Here's my follow-up question then. Brad M.: Mm-hmm. Donnie B.: How do I find what's inside of me? Because for me, I feel like I've discovered it. But I know there's tons, thousands of people that are listening to this right now, going, “Okay, cool. That's cute.” Brad M.: Give me some stuff I could … Donnie B.: Right. Right. Right. You know? Brad M.: I love it. I absolutely love that. Donnie B.: How do I define it? Brad M.: So let me share with you, in the interest of not overpowering the audience or being like a firehose of just straight-up information, I mean, I can go through some practical steps. In fact, I could go through about 12 steps in reinventing yourself. Donnie B.: This isn't AA. Brad M.: I know. I knew that was coming. I have thought about actually making to get eleven steps just because. But the first one, I believe, I think you have to find some type of discontent. Anyone who wants change, they want to reinvent themselves, believe me, I have a PhD in mistakes. And I kid you not. I have made lots and lots and lots of mistakes in my life but I don't regret them. I'm proud of them only because they have brought me to the point of they’re the aggregate of who I am and that is why I'm able to do effectively what it is that I do today. Discontent is a huge, it's like pain. So I believe pain is an indicator of change. Just like wind is an indicator of change in the weather. Like when you're going from cold to hot, you'll get a lot of wind or when it's about to rain, you get a lot of wind. It's an indicator of change. Pain is the same thing and when we look at it that way, if I'm bending my thumb back just to be silly, bending it back, “It hurts. It hurts.” Well, that's telling me, “Hey, you should let your thumb go.” It's just an indicator change. So when we look at that, when we recognize the frustration, the discontent, then we know it's time to change. That's the first thing. Some people don't realize that so they don't go to the next step. They just swirl in that discontent. That's a mindset issue. Donnie B.: Yeah, no. I love that talk just because I often believe, you got to get pissed off to move, right? I'm going to take a stab and say that some portion of you running those companies got beyond some level of beyond discontent and went full-on frustration to mad because you didn't find what you were seeking, if we're going to bring it all full circle. And that's what forced you to leave because I mean, that's how I jumped was, I just got pissed off that I was living other people's dreams and their stories and that's … is that what you're talking about? Brad M.: That’s exactly what I'm talking about. So there's a lot of dynamics involved in that. I mean, there's lots of things that came to culminate into one point. But yes. To keep at least one thing simple here, not too deep. Yes. It was a lot of things. But yes, I was so frustrated on living someone else's life. I knew there was more. I think there's a lot of people out there that want more but they just don't know what more is or how to go about finding it. And that's the point that I had come to. I was living someone else's life, what I was told I needed to be doing. I was carrying all these mental thoughts that were not mine. So that's the point. So the next step, once you become discontent like that, here's some practical things you can do. Pick a target. So I decided there's something wrong with me. I want to reinvent myself. I want to be somebody different than who I am today. And we have the ability as brilliant human beings to be able to do that. And I think it's a great message. Like, your message needs to be heard. You need to know that you have the ability to be anybody you want to be. So the next step, once you just pick a target and you don't need to have your purpose fully defined and you don't have to have your why and all these things that people say because why is nested. That's a whole different conversation. But you just have to pick a target. Pick a general target. “Hey, I want to be this kind of person.” I tried to write out who exactly I wanted to be and I found it hard. I had to literally and here is a great exercise for people. I had to remove myself from me and do it in third person. As in, when he walks in the room, this and then that allowed me to actually describe who I wanted to be. For some reason, I was stuck. I was strolling and trying to describe me in a different light and so I offer that to people. If you happen to be in that headspace, step outside of yourself. Think of some of the people you have modeled. Maybe it's some of the people you admire. Maybe some songs you know of. Maybe some quotes that resonate with you and try to put yourself in that space and just describe what it is that you want. It doesn't have to be perfect. You only need a sense of it. Once you get to that part, you have a starting point. You don't have to be great to get started. You just have to start to be great which is a well-known quote and then begin to create a foundation. So I am a foundation guy. What I didn't know through my path then, I didn't know I was going to be in construction. That's a whole other fascinating story I love to tell in my public speaking. But I was pouring foundations all over the country for these stadiums, specifically, in these multi-million dollar projects. I was pouring foundations. What I didn't know is I was preparing myself for the foundation, the new foundation of when I reinvented myself. I learned that process. I learned how to read blueprints. I learned how to be very systematic and I use that process to reinvent to come to the point to who I am today. Part of what that taught me is and I'll throw out one other great exercise and this is so powerful and I really want to drop some serious value for the listeners. This is a great exercise. When I realized that I wanted to change, I knew I needed a foundation because I had locked that. I had to have something solid, some concrete and it had to be strong and sustainable and I just got so frustrated. I said, “What the hell do I believe? I don't even know what I believe anymore.” And so I decided to remove all my beliefs. I just played a game with myself. For two weeks, I said, “I'm going to remove everything. All my axioms. Everything I've ever been taught. Everything I've ever been told. Everything that's been discussed with me. I'm going to remove them all and I'm going to start fresh.” So I literally played that game. What do I believe? And I came up with a foundation of eight beliefs that were not proposed by someone else. So I have this little formula, SI versus PO. Self-imposed versus proposed by other. So I wrote down all these beliefs that I could come up with. It's a challenging exercise because there’s this like soup of these beliefs that we picked up so readily that we don't often think into. So I wrote them all down and then I narrowed them all down to eight and then I classified them. Were they proposed by others or are they mine? And I got rid of the ones that weren't mine and I made them. I decided what I believe and what I don't believe. It's one of the most powerful exercises I've ever seen anybody do. Donnie B.: That's awesome, man. I mean, here's why I love it. One, very few people have the mental bandwidth to dissect what they've done and turn it into something. So well done for that. Two, I love the fact that you're describing your methodology by sharing what you had to go through to discover it, right? And I love the practical advantage of that. I mean, every time I interview somebody, a lot of times, I look at it from the perspective of how it's ridden with me and my journey. Is what they’re saying, did it play out as part of what I'm going through? And I love it because yours absolutely is and what's interesting is this whole last portion you said, “Is it my beliefs or is it some of the others?” That's a deep thought and that's got to be, I mean, I'm just thinking, if I went through that process, would I be able to pull it off? Would I be able to dissect my own beliefs enough to embrace, did I come up with that or did somebody else feed that idea to me? How did you do that? I mean, how did you really differentiate between the two beliefs? Brad M.: Yeah. It took a lot of filtering. So a lot of journaling, a lot of paragraphing, if you will. I think I just made up a word there. Donnie B.: I love it. I love it. Brad M.: But it took some work. So I threw it on paper and then I narrowed it down and narrowed it down and narrowed it down. And so now, I actually am at the point where I've been doing this for a while now and I go to this area as well. But now, I have eight beliefs and my number one belief number, I can tell you right off the top of my head. I can tell you all of them. But my number one belief is, ‘making the impossible’. I believe that you can make the impossible possible and I see that sounds like a crazy statement. People, I know there's listeners saying, “That doesn't even make sense.” But it does to me because I see it in my coaching and in my clients every day. They believe something is possible when I first meet them and when we first connect and then they're able to actually work through that to the point where, what they thought was impossible becomes possible. So even a simple statement like that can be super, super powerful. So it's really just a distillation process, if you will. So taking what was complicated, and this is what I pride myself in. Taking what is complicated and just distilling it down, distilling it down, distilling it down to make it simple. That in itself is a powerful nugget in business alone. There's a lot of businesspeople. I work with a lot of entrepreneurs. There's a lot of businesspeople who make things more complicated than they need to be, really. So using that distillation process to consolidate things and make them simple is another powerful nugget that I can offer. Donnie B.: No, that's awesome. That's awesome. What's interesting is, you've done a lot of really cool things in your life. Where do you think this is all going to take you? Brad M.: That's a great question. So every influencer, I'm fortunate. I went to seven events last year all over the country. I was down in Miami. I was all over. I was in Miami, Austin and one other country. I went to California and then came back. The best event, I saw an intensity of events. So a spectrum of intensity. Some of them were low intensity. Some were just in the beginning stages. I love supporting people who do these types of things. So I went out of the country just meeting a lot of group owners and different people and influencers. Micro influencers and heavy influencers. The highest intensity by far was Tony Robbins’. That event, UPW is just unbelievable. Maximum intensity. Like, it was, I mean, if you go there and you don’t say, “Wow,” you might be dead. And I saw lower ones. So where I'm going with this is, I'm going on a speaking path. So I am on a speaking path and that helped show me what intensity level I want to be at. So I would say, if you're a speaker, you better have some tennis shoes on because I'm chasing you. Donnie B.: That's awesome. Growing up as a kid, I guarantee you that on that journey, when the teacher looked at you during your years where you were class clowning and everything else, and she said or he said, “What do you want to be when you grow up?” At what portion did you jump out of your chair, run around the classroom and scream, “I'm going to be this big celebrity on stage inspiring people to go for it.”? Brad M.: At no point. This has definitely been a succession of incremental micro-wins and losses. It is definitely … so I’m a pattern guy. Being a cryptologist in the Navy helped me tremendously. But I think that's a natural talent anyway. Seeing patterns deeply and I'm a why guy. So I like to really figure out the engineering behind something. I need to know why. That's why I wasn't engaged in school because I would ask, “Well, why is zero, zero? I don't understand that.” And the teacher would basically say, “Well, that's the way it is.” And that didn't work for me. They wanted me to do that rote memorization and that style of learning doesn't work for me because I need to take something to a deep level. But when I'm able to do that at my own pace, then I’m able to recraft it into something that can be super powerful for people so that they can understand it in a different way. For those types of people that that resonates with, I'm sort of probably a few years ago, “Yes! I get that.” But you have to really learn at a deep level to be able to do that. So I think that I'm going to continue to use that in order to serve people in the best way. For me, that's where I found my meaning. That meaning is inside me. I want to serve people. I want to impact people. I have a goal to impact a billion lives. So I want to be able to truly transform a billion lives. Now, that sounds like a lot and that might sound like a crazy statement. But if we deep dive it a little bit, it's not. If I impact one person who impacts another person, who impacts another person or if I impact one to many on a speaking stage, then maybe even 20 or 30 or potentially, maybe a thousand. And they then too impact people. Then a billion really isn't that much. Donnie B.: So here's what keeps going through my mind. I love this whole theory … Brad M.: This guy's nuts. Donnie B.: Well, that’s true. Yeah. Yeah. I thought that when I first saw you. What's interesting to me is, I think a lot of people are gunning for Tony Robbins, right? A lot of people want that level of stage. Brad M.: Mm-hmm. Donnie B.: I think you actually will probably pull it off from a process standpoint. I think you just got that in you. But here's what I'm curious about. We're having a conversation here and you're pretty mellow, down-to-earth guy. Brad M.: Mm-hmm. Donnie B.: You grew up in a blue-collar lifestyle, you go through the Navy which is blue collar still. You get into construction. Still blue collar even though you held the top title, if you will. Now, a speaker. How the hell is this guy who grew up in a blue-collar world that is kind of mellow, wanting to get that amped up and fired up when on stage? Brad M.: It’s a great question. In fact, I think that's the first time I've ever been asked that question in that style. So I love that. I commend you and celebrate you for that. It's a great question. I'm just amped up about serving people in a massive way. I am so passionate about this because I didn't have a mentor growing up. The only thing that I had available to me at that time was what I used, the audiobooks. See how we come full circle? So I'm going back pre-Internet. Yes, I remember the rotary phones and the listeners that never even heard of or maybe seen a picture of. And I don't regret that. It's brought me to who I am today. It's actually given me an ability and a passion. See, things were a little bit different back then. The Internet's a beautiful thing and I think, sometimes, we miss what's right there in front of us. It's like the fish doesn't see the water, right? We may be missing the fact that with the Internet, we have the ability to connect with anybody with this phone thing that we hold in our hand. Anybody. Billions of people across the planet which is amazing. I didn't have that ability when I was young. And so I'm super passionate about making sure that everybody that wants a mentor or a coach, I mean, a coach is just like, it's a term that people use. They take this, and forgive me, but I am really passionate about this. They take this six-week course and they call themselves a coach. I saw something on the Internet the other day about, take this course for $25. What? And then you're going to try to coach me? I'm sorry. And I don't mean this from ego. I really don't. I mean it with the utmost humility but you're not going to have a whole lot to offer me in my walk, in the walk that I've had. Donnie B.: Well, come on, man. There are 21-year-old life coaches. Brad M.: That's what I'm talking about. That's a great path. Donnie B.: You know what, to that point, because I've been zinged on podcasts for saying this and one gal hit me with a zing that I actually listened to. She's like, “Look it doesn't mean that 21-year-old cannot coach a 16 and 17-year-old about the next stage of their life.” So even if you are a $25-course coach, that whole thought process is funny to me. If you are, make sure you're teaching people to your level. Don't overstate where you can get them and what you can do for them. If you've never run a million-dollar business, don't tell them you're going to get them to a million-dollar business. You don't know how. Brad M.: There's way, way, way too much of that. I still give them credit. They're doing their thing and I give them credit for actually taking action but authenticity is huge. So when I began to reinvent myself, I began to realize all these things. Authenticity, character. I don't think character is talked about enough. Integrity sometimes is talked about in a way that doesn't even describe integrity. These things, deep diving these words, they're just words but they have meanings and stories behind them. And so I'm fascinated nowadays about deep diving these words for people, helping them discover who they really truly are. Hence, the name of my company, Build Brilliance. It's really pulling the brilliance from inside you. We are all brilliant in our own unique right. Here's a fascinating thing. My company is built on the brilliant diamond and we don't just use that as a metaphor for what I do. Inside a diamond, there's these scratches. Inside. Deep inside. There's these scratches and these little faults. They’re in every diamond. They're called inclusions. And if we would look at our life like that, yes, we're flawed in certain ways. We have these little different uniquenesses. I may have just created another word. Donnie B.: Yeah, that's twice today. Keep it up, Brad. Brad M.: These uniquenesses. But they're just included in us. They’re just a part of our life. When we realize this and we begin to really discover who we are, then we stop thinking about what other … we stop looking for validation from other people. We don't need it anymore. We just become ourselves authentically and we just show up aligned and that's not a real sexy word. But it's a powerful one. When we're fully aligned, when we're the same person at work and at home and at church and all these things that we do at the basketball game and the football game, when we're the same person in all those areas, you’re unfuck-with-able. Donnie B.: That’s another word. Brad M.: Seriously. Yeah, people can't touch you. You don't have to worry about … there’s too much worry and doubt and fear in the world. It's like an epidemic. Donnie B.: Yeah. I got to tell you, it was empowering for me because I was the guy growing up in the sales world that the best sales guys were driving the nice cars and wearing the big suits and walking a certain way and talking a certain way. So I was a replica of what these guys were and because I wanted to get where they were and what’s interesting is when I stopped trying to be those guys, my career took the hell off. Interestingly enough, same thing happened when I started my business. I was trying to be all these other people in name and everything else and when I said, “Screw it. Just be me,” my company took off. So it's very becoming that when you step into who you are, man, it's amazing about who you become. Brad M.: Yeah. I'm so 100% with you. Coming full circle, that's where my search, well, I don't want to say ended because I haven't died. In fact, my life is just beginning. But coming full circle for the journey, that is what happened. When I stopped chasing those things, what I was told I was supposed to be, I’m supposed to have a big house and a big car. That's how I show my success. I'm with you. When I let all that go, that's when I started to really find my meaning. And meaning, when we’re driven by meaning, it's so powerful. So that is why I want to chase the heels of those types of people because I think they've discovered that too. The greats, they all knew that. Jim Rohn. I mean, Jim Rohn was a mentor to Tony Robbins. Donnie B.: Yes, he was. Brad M.: John Maxwell. These people. I think they discovered that and that's when their levels of success really started to propel. So I'm with you 100%. Donnie B.: That’s awesome. So what do we see in the nearest future? I mean, for you, what's happening next? Brad M.: Yeah. I love it. So I have a joint venture with a couple of other people and we're starting what's called, UNleashed and UNlimited. So it's a Tony Robbins . Of course, this is a journey. So you don’t have to worry yet, Tony. Just kidding. I’m just having a little fun with that. I mean, what he does is amazing and what we'll do is a slight variation of that. But it's similar. We really want to help people become unleashed and unlimited. I have the utmost belief that no matter what you want to do, then it is possible. Now, there's some probability in that too. I mean, there's some chemical and stuff. I'm not going to be a running back. Let's face it. Donnie B.: My buddy’s running joke is, he's like, “I'm 6’4, 300 pounds. I'm never going to be a jockey. I don't care how many times I tell myself I can be a jockey.” And my response is, “There's Clydesdales.” Brad M.: That’s true. But within those, understanding those constraints, there are always some constraints. But the constraints in our mind and the actual constraints, there's a gap between those oftentimes with most people. So we want to be able to help people through some of those and we really want to truly just get them unleashed which I’m just so passionate about. When somebody becomes fully unleashed, there's nothing stopping them. I have this statement, “I'm going to get there or you're going to find me dead and pointed in that direction.” That's how strongly, that's how committed I am to this path. When you're that passionate about anything and we have these inclusions. We have these different brilliances. When you figure out what that thing is, there's nothing stopping you. So UNleashed and UNlimited. That's what's coming around the corner now. Donnie B.: That's awesome. That's awesome. Brad, how do people get in touch with you? If they want to reach out, they want to find out more about Unleashed and UNlimited and I love that name, they want to send you an e-mail, carrier pigeon, maybe it's the old rotary phones that you got to dial, I mean, how do people get in touch with you? Brad M.: Yeah. That's a great question. Carrier pigeon would be extremely effective, I would say because that would definitely get my attention. Donnie B.: Yeah. I just got to admit, if I walk out my front door of my farm and there's a pigeon sitting on the thing with a notarized leg, I'm going to read that message. Brad M.: If you really want to get an influencer’s attention, send them a carrier pigeon. That’s a great nugget. I love it. Now, Facebook is probably the best. I mean, I'm on LinkedIn as well, Facebook, I'm on Instagram. But I do mostly Facebook. I have a Facebook group called Entrepreneur Escalation. However, and you're going to get a preview because nobody knows this yet. That will be changing to, UNleashed and UNlimited. Donnie B.: Nice. Nice. Brad M.: So that's the best way. Just Facebook. Build Brilliance is my business page and just look me up, Brad A. Milford. Donnie B.: That’s awesome. That’s awesome. Well, my brother, I got to tell you, it's been a lot of fun having you on the show and hearing your journey and what you went through. Thank you. I can't talk today, obviously. Here's how I like to wrap up every show and I do stump some people. So get ready. Brad M.: Bring it. Donnie B.: If you were going to leave the Champions that listen to this show, entrepreneurs from all over the world, veterans, business-owners, all people that are trying to find their own success on their journey, if you were to leave them with a quote, a phrase, a saying, a mantra, a motto, something they can take with them on their journey especially when they're stacked up against it and going through it, what would be that quote you would say, “Remember this,”? Brad M.: Who you are is greater than where you are. Donnie B.: That is a powerful statement. Who you are is greater than where you are. I love that. Brad M.: I think during adversity and we all hit it, if you really reach deep inside and you say to yourself, “Who I am is greater than where I am.” Donnie B.: I love that. I love that. I love that. Brad, brother, thanks so much for doing this. I really appreciate being a part of your journey, hearing your story. Thanks again for coming on the show. Brad M.: Likewise. Thank you. It's been an honor. [Music] Donnie B.: There you have it, Brad Milford. Man, what a cool dude. I probably say it too often. But I'm telling you, the people that come on this show, I just enjoy because they become friends. They become colleagues. They just become people that I look up to and have great conversations with and I love, love the relationships I’ve formed because of this show, man. I hope you enjoyed this one, guys. Do me a favor, make sure you go check out Point Blank Safety Services. Find them at and then jump over to Facebook. Come hang out with us. I am telling you, if you want to unleash your inner badass and really go for it, come hang out with us in Success Champions. Just go to Facebook, type in, Success Champions in that search box, click on groups and you'll find us there. And then guys, like and share and review this show. It means everything to me. And when you do that, it is literally like you walked up, gave me a high-five, gave me a hug, said hello, told me you're a badass and it means everything to me. Guys, seriously, go blow some shit up. Go big and loud and light this damn world on fire. We'll catch you next time.
Donnie B.: All right. So a lot of you guys have been asking for this one and I'm looking forward to bringing Landon on. This is going to be a fun time. You should see his eyeballs right now. I got them all wigged out. But this is going to be a fun time. I'm bringing on the Sales Gorilla himself, Mr. Landon Porter and I think we're just going to have a killer time. I’m going to make fun of him a lot because I dig his hairdo and everything. So I think we're just going to have a fun time with that. I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie’s Success Champions. Landon, welcome to the show, my brother. Tell us your story. [Music] Donnie B.: Hey, guys! Before we get rolling with Landon, I wanted to jump in here and say thank you to Point Blank Safety Services and Blue Family Fund. They've been with us for almost the entirety of 200 episodes on this show and they've just been amazing and their message and what they do in protection of our freeways, our buildings and I'm honored that a company that takes care of our police officers and their families has been such a gem in supporting our messages, this show and everything they do and what they're doing for police officers and their families is truly a beautiful thing. I mean, we all know the stories that teachers, police officers, military, they're all underpaid for what they're sacrificing with their lives. And I love the fact that Stacey and Michael found a cool way to get them additional income so they could take care of their families. It's really a beautiful thing. So if you’re looking for security services or you're looking for highway protection and patrol, those type of things, man, do me a favor and reach out to Point Blank Safety Services and you can find them at and tell them Donnie sent you, you heard it on the Success Champions podcast. But man, what an amazing company, amazing people and guys, do me a favor, follow them on social, follow all their stuff because I couldn't do this show without them. Here comes Landon. Landon P.: Thanks for having me on, man. So back in late October of 1977, right? My story is not the typical sales guy or finally made it big in business story or whatever. I learned early on that I was really good at a couple of things but I didn't really like doing them for a paycheck and I ended up in sales in my early to mid-20s and really out of necessity and I figured out pretty quick that the way sales is done doesn't feel very good. Is it possible? Sure. Is it easy to learn and if you put enough practice in, get good at it? Absolutely. But it didn't feel good. And even though I got really good at doing it the way that it doesn't feel good, I eventually figured out that I just don't like everybody and that eventually turned into, if I don't like everybody, there's something in there that causes some people to want to say yes to me more and other people to say no to me more. And I went about figuring out what that was and it turned out that relationships, right? This thing that us salespeople have figured out how to engineer, this relationship thing, if you understand the parameters of how it works naturally for you and who you want to deal with and you just leverage that, it's so much easier and it makes so much more sense and I'll finish that all by saying this, that's from the stance of a sales guy who was tasked with bringing on new clients, but the money wasn't in bringing that client on. The money was in dealing with that client long-term because all the money was long tail. So I had to bring on clients and then I had to deal with all their bullshit and like, I don't really want to do that. So long story short, after about 15 years in sales, I decided, “Okay, cool. I want to go do something else.” My wife and I went into a parenting thing and in that process, I was asking some people about running ads and they were asking me about, “Okay, cool. What about the sales thing?” And within a week, about five people were like, “Dude, you need to fucking teach this.” And I was like, “Dude, no the fuck, I don't.” Here we are almost two years later and our take on sales is it's all relational. Welcome to the relationship economy. People are tired of being sold to and sold at and it's a whole lot easier for business-owners and people that have a cool thing to sell to just figure out who you want to deal with and just be open and honest with the public like, “Hey, I'm a little off. I cuss. I'm weird and if you don't like that, it's okay. Go away.” So that's kind of the, that’s me! Donnie B.: I love it. I love it. So here's what's interesting about this, man, is I grew up in the sales game as well. And to me, sales success early on was, you had to talk a certain way, act a certain way, be a certain way and I got really, really good at being that asshole. And here's the one difference in my story and yours is, I get really good at the transactional sale, right? I could get the deal done. This whole concept that you talked about, it's a long tail, that was not me. And my sales cycles were so wicked because you get the deal done, you’re rocking it out and then you're like, “Okay, I'm on to the next one.” And I’d pass it off to a company. So my CEO, they always encouraged me, like, “Get it done. We'll take care of it. We’ll take care of it.” Well, they weren't taking care of it. So my cycles would be way high, then all of a sudden, you’d bottom out because you had nothing sitting behind it because you were just killing deals. And it wasn't for me until I stopped being that egotistical asshole that didn't give a shit about people, who’s just trying to get the deal done that I found relationship sales. So this is just an interesting paradigm to find somebody else that kind of went the same path that I did. So here's the thing, I knew part of that story, right? Because I saw a video of something of yours somewhere and I knew part of that story. Didn't you sell like in an almost pit-like setting like it was more boiler room type thing or something along those lines? Landon P.: Yeah. And actually, you bring up a good point about the whole relationship thing and cycles up and down and I will tell that story in one second. I want to preface this for everybody that's listening. There are salespeople and if you're listening to this podcast because you're a salesperson and you're actually, your job is to go sell a thing for somebody else, do it however the hell you want to do it. I'm not here to tell anybody how to do something. What I do is I take business-owners that aren't really salespeople and I un-brainwash them from all the shit they think they have to do to get the sale done. So with all that said, yeah, let's actually talk about that. In right about the time the crash happened, I went to work for a company called COFAS and we sold commercial collections all the way through to commercial credit. And this is like business to business asset management protection and I was literally hired as a sales monkey, right? There was 30 or 40 of us on the sales floor, full-on boiler room style. You said whatever you had to, to get the deal done and it was such a turn and burn. Literally, it was like this. Every week, they hired seven people. At the end of 30 days, there was one of those seven people left. At the end of the next 30 days, there was one of those seven people left. I was in that industry almost a decade and there was one guy that I was hired with, same training class, we were hired on the same week. The next closest person that we knew in the three companies that the two of us worked for in ten years had been in the industry for like 3 years. It's just one of those industries that people can't hack it. I kind of came in and this is what I wanted to say about the relationship thing. I kind of came into that. There's an interesting story about it. I had a client that was household. They were Fortune like 10, Fortune 12. They were big. Everybody on the planet has something in their dwelling. If you live in a hut with a dirt floor, you've got their products and I had a 45-minute conversation after having them for like ten months and this guy is just m-effing me for 45 minutes, screaming and yelling and pissed because the idiot who sold them told them something that we could do that was just absolutely against company policy and it was a little itty-bitty thing and it took like eight months for it to happen and I had to tell him, “No, we're not doing that. We won't do that.” And I walk out of my office, I walked down to my buddy, Billy. He was the guy that was, we were hired together and I opened the door and he looked at me, he's like, “Feeling awfully gorilla today.” And I said, “Yeah. Because these stupid fucking monkeys will say anything they need to, to get the deal done.” That's great for getting money on the frontend but if you're trying to get money on the backend and build a sales business, it doesn't work. Donnie B.: No, I love it. I love it. I love it. So talk to me about this a little bit because you said a phrase that I haven't heard thrown around the sales game. Because typically, when you get these sales gurus through, right? They’re, “Let me bath you with my bullshit. Let me tell you how awesome I am, the millions of dollars I sold and I flew into my Learjet with my slicked back ass hair and let me 10x your ass,” right? That's the shit that gets thrown around on a regular basis. You just said something that's powerful as hell when you said, “I try and take business-owner and reprogram from all the bullshit that they've been programed and all the stuff that they've learned.” Dude, talk to me. I mean, because that's not an approach you see in the marketplace at all because you're supposed to be the grease ball. You're supposed to kill it. You're supposed to be the transactional guy and we all know in this day and age, if you do that, you're going to lose but they're teaching it still anyways. How do you take a business-owner and teach them to just be their damn self and grow a business? Landon P.: Well, your listeners can't see it. But this image behind me actually used to be a poster with our logo on it. One of my early catchphrases was, “Just be your weird-ass self.” Let's really break this down for a second. Relationships happen two ways and I was that asshole, right? Ten years ago, I was that asshole with the car and the money and the … fuck all that. We can learn how to psychologically trigger people to make decisions. Whether it's in their best interest or not and if that's you and you take somebody and you just make them understand that what you have is what they need to fix their problem, then fantastic. Go do that. I don't want anything to do with that. Us salespeople for 30 to 60 years have learned how to do that so well that we can make people do shit, right? Advertising, marketing, sales. It's just the way it has gone. Society as a whole is sick of it. The way that that works naturally, there's a reason that we in the wild are naturally attracted to some people and naturally repelled by others. Well, if you take that stance of, we're all weird and it's okay and some people just aren't going to like me and that's kind of fine because there's some people I don't naturally like and you just go about it that way. It makes it really easy to go, “That's a fit. That's a fit. I don't think so. That's a fit. That's a fit. Nope.” Right? And here's why. Business-owners that are really good at a thing that they do, they really don't want to learn how to like, what's the process? How do I enter the conversation? How do I then turn it into qualifying? Just make it easier on yourself, right? There's an easier process to that. And there are a lot of good people out there that do the sales training the right way, right? The Sandler Training for an example. In a lot of ways, they do it the right way. Donnie B.: Are you ready to laugh your ass off? Landon P.: Yeah. Donnie B.: For the last seven years, before I started my company, I was a national trainer for Sandler Sales. Landon P.: See what I'm saying? So I don't want to work with salespeople because I don't want to teach people how to sell. I want to teach people how to be their weird-ass selves, give them permission to just do that, figure out who it is that they actually really want to work with and then craft a very simple message and offer that gets those people to take notice and go, “Oh, that person might be for me. I should have a conversation with them.” So much easier than learning how to sell. Donnie B.: Yeah. But you're asking people to reprogram themselves. And here's what I mean is, most people have gone through society and been told, you act a certain way, you carry yourself a certain way, you dress a certain way. I mean, for instance, I was at a speaking engagement about a month back and this guy, when he walked up to me, he had a curled mustache tie clasp, he had a curled mustache cufflinks, curled mustaches all over his tie itself and I said, “What's up with all the curled mustaches?” And he goes, “Oh, you can't see it right now. I got it tucked underneath.” “What do you mean you got it tucked underneath?” He goes, “Well, I don't think people would see me as very professional if they actually saw.” And he worked in banking or something, right? Where you got to wear the suit and everything. And he goes, “I don't think people would respect me very much if they saw my curled mustache.” He turned around, literally pulled out his mustache. It must have been curled up into his mouth which is just disgusting to think about and we both got beards and he pulls it out and he actually combs it into these big-ass curl. I mean, huge curled mustache. And I'm like, “Dude, that is you. Let those things fly.” And then two seconds later, another guy wearing a suit walked in the room and you saw him turn around and immediately tuck it back under. Right? So what you're trying to do is actively reprogram people to go against what they've been taught by society for a long time. That's a tall task, brother. Landon P.: Well, what's interesting is society is going that way. Like, I didn't coin this term, but I've been saying it a lot the last couple of years. “Welcome to the relationship economy.” Go look at any of the people that have kind of been on the forefront of kind of telling all of us marketers where shit’s headed that have been doing it for a while, that have been proved accurate, they're all talking about, it's the relationship. Even some of the sales monkeys that I'm sure both you and I get their emails, they're all like, “If you pay me,” when they're in the conversation with but then they're telling the market, “No, it's all about relationships.” Right? Here's the bottom line. If you're being anything other than who you actually are, you've got a mask on. And our BS meters are so sensitive that people can smell that from a mile away. Just be yourself. Yeah, it's a tall order. But here's the deal, that for me weeds out all of the people that are just bullshit artists and can't even tell themselves the truth. Like, look, I've got a crazy head of hair. I've got this giant beard. I don't wear suits. I've got gorillas in all my stuff. I cuss. I am who I am and if you don't like it, that's fine. Unless you're elderly or somebody else's kids, I'm going to be exactly who I am the way I am and if you like that, fantastic. Stick around. And if you don't, go away. And my take is, everybody should be that way. Donnie B.: Well, and I love that aspect of the elderly and kids. It's still you. It's just, you're respectful at that moment, right? Landon P.: Right. Mm-hmm. Yup. To put it in context, I'm not going to drop f-bombs in front of my grandmother's or my buddy’s kids. Donnie B.: Right. Well, I will. But most of my buddies, they know me. Landon P.: They know better. Donnie B.: I’ll walk into a room and I'm usually that guy that gets a, let me tell you about Donnie before he gets there, right? Landon P.: That's awesome. Donnie B.: A lot of people don't know what their real self is because you go to work or business or whatever else and you're one person wearing that mask and then you come home and you're somebody else. I know that was a lot of my journey because I was always trying to be somebody I was not all the way through it and really, it took me opening my own company before I really realized that I was doing it because I didn't realize I was doing it living that 8:00 to 5:00 lifestyle versus running a business. Outside of doing the crazy thing that I did and jumped out and started my own company, how does somebody actually understand what their real self is? Because, man, I understand you’re going after business-owners. There's a huge market of salespeople that are doing this, right? And they're selling shit they don't even believe in. But it's the job they took that's in front of them which was, once again, a lot of my career. You don't choose a path. You just happened that, “Oh, I'm here. Okay, I'll sell this.” How do people discover who the hell they actually are? Landon P.: It's an ongoing process and really, for most, I would say, most people, it's a never-ending process. It's all about self-awareness. And here's my thing. Like, this is the epitome of everything I stand for. I'm not here to tell anybody what they should do and I'm not here to convince anybody of anything. I am happy with the people that go, “You know, the thing that he just said made a whole lot of sense and I'm not sure quite how to do it. But that's interesting.” And they stick around. It's the whole idea of, you can lead somebody to water. But if you try and stick their head in the bucket, you're just going to drown them, right? We're all to an extent becoming a little bit more aware of who we are and what life is like. This also weeds out a lot of the younger people. Like, don't take offense to this. If you're 22 and like all full of bravado and standing in front of a Bentley for your picture that everybody knows you don't own, that's fantastic. You've got your own path to go through. My take on it is, I'm not here to like forcibly change the way sales is done. I'm here to offer another way to the people that go, “Oh, that actually kind of makes sense.” And we do it through a podcast and a group and all of that stuff. So our message is getting out there and you'd be surprised how many people go, “Man, I don't even know if I can say this publicly but like, what you said on that, blah-blah-blah, like, oh my God. I didn't think that was like permissible.” Donnie B.: Right. Now, I love it because I call it letting your hair down. Landon P.: Yeah Donnie B.: And it's so funny that luckily, there's been a couple of guys that are out there that have cleared the path, if you will. I mean, you take somebody like Gary V, then his freaking foul-mouthed talking. You don’t have to agree with his philosophy but he made cussing mainstream before guys like Andrew Dice Clay and Eddie Murphy or Richard Pryor, prior to him but Gary's like the first one that brought it into the scene that it is our culture because you're at home, you cuss like a freaking sailor, you're hanging out with your buddies and then you go into the business mode and you become robot boy or whatever. My parents give me hell still about cursing. My nieces will come up to me every once in a while and they’re like, “Why do you cuss so much?” I'm like, “Honey, you should know by now. That's just how I fucking talk.” There was one time and my niece had some friends over and she comes running up to me and she goes, “I need a favor.” I said, “Okay. What's the favor?” She goes, “Will you not cuss? They’re from church.” I’m like, “All right. Since you asked, I’m in.” But there's this whole thought process of being yourself and watching the world just open up and see what happens. But even so, I mean, okay, be yourself. Cool. How do you find the other people that are going to vibe with that, with you? I know how I think about it. But I have a feeling you're going to have say exactly what's going through my head but say it anyways. Landon P.: Well, it's simply the matter of putting yourself out there and like, Gary V's on this kick about a hundred pieces of content and to an extent, I agree with him from the perspective of, right now, it's all real estate. Like in the late 1800s, you could buy up New York, right? Fantastic! There are people that need to build a long-term brand doing that. But you can do that just by doing that with people that you're already talking to and here's the thing. It all comes down to this. I believe that relationships are the most important thing on the planet and the relationship you have with yourself is the most important, right? And I'm a little too woo for some people and I'm not woo enough for other people and that's fantastic. But what I think about is, if I lay down at night and I'm happy with myself and what I do and what I did and how I do things, that's the payment, right? So to me, for me, that's the highest level of achievement for myself. Beyond money, beyond all of that. Even beyond the relationships that I have with other people. It's the relationship that I have with myself and when you start doing that, you notice pretty quickly. Some people just escape your world and other people start paying more attention and when other people are like, “Wow!” And they don't even do that out loud usually but they start bringing other people to you and they start bringing other people to you and some people go, “I like this. I like this. Not for me.” And other people go, “Not even close.” And other people go, “Holy shit. This is exactly what I'm looking for.” And if you're a salesperson, if you're a business-owner, your job is to effectively build a book of sales clients who buy more stuff from you and you can do it the hard way by trying to talk to everybody and be a salesperson or you can identify the people you actually like to be around and just be yourself. Donnie B.: I love this. So I had a guy come up to me not long ago and I try and get everybody into podcasting, right? That's just my thing. I think everybody should flip and start a podcast. It is just such an inexpensive, low-hanging fruit to get so much massive attention, exposure and it's the best networking tool on the face of the Earth. And this guy, after one of my speeches and I tell everybody to get into podcasting, he walked up to me and he said, “I've got the most boring job in the world.” I said, “Okay. What do you do?” He goes, “I run an HR consulting business and nobody in the world gives a shit about HR consulting.” I said, “Okay, good. We agree on that.” And he goes, “What the hell would I start a podcast on if I were going to start a podcast?” I said, “Okay, cool. What did you geek out on as a kid? What was that thing that as a kid, you just totally did?” And looked at me and his eyes lit up and he goes, “Dude, I raced motorcycles.” I said, “Oh, tell me about motorcycles.” He’s like, “We built them from the ground up. I raced them. We did all.” And this dude goes on this whole almost monologue, diatribe of motorcycle races. And I'm like, “Why the hell wouldn't you start a motorcycle podcast?” “Because I run an HR consulting business. Why would I do that?” I said, “Why wouldn't you? Who's easier to have a sales conversation with than somebody you can absolutely geek out over something on and talk to for hours about motorcycle? And oh, by the way, I happen to do this HR whatever on the side, right?” If you go get in your world of whatever you geek out on, you're going to find other people that geek out on your stuff and I think that's what you're saying. Landon P.: I even have a term for it. It’s your Genius Zone. Donnie B.: I love it. Landon P.: Right? So there's a lot of people that do something similar to what they really love. Web designers, right? This is a perfect example. A lot of web designers really love doing the aspect of like, visually creating the most amazing-looking website. But all the other shit that they have to do for their clients, they’re like, “I don't really like it,” or “I'm not even that good at it,” or whatever. That thing is their Genius Zone. But most people, myself included for a long time, we do shit that we think we're good at, we think we're supposed to do, somebody told us that we needed to do this. We spent too much time getting a skillset that we can't not do it. But there's this other thing that I am so in love with. That's our Genius Zone and really, what happiness, here's a little insight for everybody listening to this. Here's what I found in my 40 almost 2 years. What causes happiness is simply spending your day doing whatever the hell you want. If you can spend your time doing what it is that you enjoy doing, that's happiness. Genius Zone. Donnie B.: I love it. I love it. I love it. And it's the truth. I mean, you look at a lot of business-owners and the phrase, they’re the president, chief bottle washer, trash-taker-out dude and it's because that's what they know. That's the business they’ve built and they haven't figured out how to either outsource some of that other stuff or get some of those things off their plate but this whole Genius Zone, that really, really got me hung up for a second because how does somebody just embrace that Genius Zone and not have to take on all the other stuff? Landon P.: Two things. One, many people will never take the step to go, “I really wish I could just spend my time doing that.” Most people will, right? Golden handcuffs. The people that are in their own business that are doing nine different jobs, they have their own bottlenecks, right? They've created their own glass ceiling. Most of us are only good at a couple different aspects of what we do, right? I don't know about you. You've got your own podcast. I do my own podcast. I don't do the editing. I don't do the … right? I don't do any of those things that I'm not good at, right? Well, if you own a business and you spend your time focused on your Genius Zone, the thing that you do, guess what? You get to work with higher quality clients who are higher value for you. You're happier doing it. Generally, you work with fewer of them and make way more money. And if you go that route, you can get other people who their Genius Zone is the shit you don't like to do and now, you can actually have a real business. Donnie B.: I love this. I had a … his name’s going to escape me. But I had a gentleman recently on the show and he has created the of outsourcing. Landon P.: Wow. Donnie B.: So you can go to his website and whatever you need an outsource for, you can go through and he brokers the services, okay? He told me flat out. He's like, “Look, I don't care what business you're in. You can go get a COO for your business for $1,500 to $2,000 a month.” Which means, if you're the face of the company, outspoken guy and you suck at operations, you can literally pick up a COO. Now, they're going to be overseas, they’re going to be in another company, they're going to do everything virtually but a COO in this day and age will cost you between $120,000 and $150,000 depending on what kind of business you have and you can get one for less than $2,400 a year to take all that crap off your plate that you don't want to do and turn your business into a functional business. So you can go spend time in your Zone of Genius or a flipside of it, you can go find the other person who wants to be the face of the company, who wants that brand out there and let you be the operational Zone of Genius, the things that you geek out on for about the same price. There's no reason that your business should be functioning in any way that is not allowing you to step in and do what you love to do. This is so awesome. This is so awesome. Landon P.: Yeah. Since you’ve brought his name up a couple of times, Gary V., I'm a fan. I'm not a fanboy. I don't model everything in my world around Gary but I think a lot of what he says is truth and I think he's got a lot of real-life experience that has proven that he has an idea of what he's talking about. And it's been a while since I've heard him say this but there's nothing wrong with being the number two or the number three or the number four and most people like, “Let's face it, right? If there's 19 positions in a company, not everybody on the planet’s a number one.” Well, I think a lot of people take that the wrong way, right? That number one position and the way he brings it up is, “Well, everybody thinks it's the owner. It’s the CEO. It's the entrepreneur. Oh my God.” Cool. Well, if you like playing with numbers and that's your love language and you're a freaking accountant, then you're number one at that regardless of what you do or who you do it for and I don't think a lot of people recognize this. There's a lot of things. You and I both own a business. There's a lot of things that need to be done. And I tell you what, man, 92% of it, I can't stand doing. Donnie B.: You and me both. Landon P.: So why spend any of my time doing that shit that I don't like and for you, right? Donnie B.: Yup. The only thing I had to throw out when I bring up Gary V. is I love a lot of his philosophies. The one philosophy I hate is the grind, the 18-hour days, right? That works for Gary, right? The other thing is he says, he's going to buy the jets. That works for Gary. Most type of people can't wrap their head around working that hard. Not even that hard but that many hours. Two, people can't wrap their head around a goal that large. They already are setting themselves up for disappointment and they already believe they can't accomplish it. So they're never going to go after it. So go ahead. Landon P.: I just want to be happy. Don't you want to be happy? That’s part of his new tagline. I think that's a misconception and in the world that I play in, there's a lot of entrepreneur people that hang out of my world and a lot of people seem to play life that there's a set of rules that applies to everybody. And that's just not the case, right? I like to work a lot. That's part of who I am. But I don't want to spend 18 hours a day doing grind work. You told me before we got on here, how many of these you've done today? That like blows my mind. But then I think about it and I go, “You know what, if these are an hour-long each, I've done almost that much already today in mentoring calls and I love it.” It's work. But that doesn't mean that everybody should see that and go, “Oh, so I should work 6 or 7 hours a day, 7 days a week because so and so does it?” No. Figure out what it is that makes you happy and then spend your time doing it. Donnie B.: Yeah. I mean, that's a great way of putting it. When I do these Fridays and I'm interviewing these people, dude, I just had an interview right before yours where I talked to a guy who spent 30 years in the symphony and he's literally bringing these executives from Fortune 50 companies to sit in the symphony and teach leadership skills by screwing up conducting. I mean, it was the most brilliant conversation. This dude totally had me geek out on his entire everything he did and I would have never met this guy without the podcast. So for me, that's my Zone of Genius. I love having these conversations, networking, this, that and the other. I love being on stages. You have your platform with … you got a nice huge following of, what do you call them? Gorillas? Landon P.: Gorillas. Donnie B.: That are geeking out because you are such a straight-talker, no bullshit, let me just tell you how it is type of thing which continues to draw people to you and your story. When you find that thing, hold on and do more of it. Landon P.: Well, it’s like that guy that you just mentioned, 30 years in the symphony, do you think he's got an interest in that kind of music? Do you think he's got an interest in that kind of scene? Do you think … I mean, birds of a feather flock together, right? If that's who he is and then he goes, “Oh, you know what? When we're not all playing our part, the symphony sounds like shit.” And I can translate that to these other people that I like, these corporate people who need the leadership thing and I can demonstrate to them what I'm talking about. Do you think that guy needs 50,000 people to buy his thing? Donnie B.: Nope! Landon P.: Probably not. But he's being himself. And he's playing in his Zone of Genius and he's probably the happiest guy on the planet. Donnie B.: And when you talk to somebody like that that has their style and their thing, I mean, you can feel it because they're not making up some sort of cliché saying. They’re just speaking their truths. And it's fun to get in those type of conversations. So back to the kind of the sales a little bit, you got a business-owner that's trying to grow their business, you're telling them to just be themselves. Now, they've got to go interact and engage people and find people that are going to jive and vibe with their personality. How do they do it? Landon P.: Well, even with everything that I've said about sales, right? Here's the bottom line. There's principles and everything. There's a reason it takes X number of years to become a black belt, a 9th degree black belt in any martial arts. There's a reason it takes that amount of time to get that good at sales or engineering or being a brain surgeon. There's principles. Well, the sales world, this getting clients world, there’s still principles and fundamentals that are in play. The bottom line is, you got to get the right message to the right market at the right time. And there's a conundrum there. It's actually a riddle. To have the right message to put in front of the right market at the right time, it's got to be in that order once you get it. But you can't figure it out in that order. You got to figure out the ‘who’ first, right? Who's the right fit for this thing that I do so then I can go have conversations with them to craft my message and then I can put that out to the marketplace? Then there's some other principles. There's a lot of ways to get clients. There's a lot of ways to do prospecting, cold calling, cold approaching, cold messaging people on social media. There's right ways and wrong ways in my opinion to do those things and then there's other ways to do it. Client attraction. You can build funnels and there's all of that. If we will just use the principles to do those things, they all work. But if you're a business-owner and you need clients and you don't have an audience established, right? There's two times to plant a tree. 20 years ago and today. If you didn't do that and you don't have an audience, well, really, you should start building one. But in the meantime, you need to figure out who needs your thing and go start, I call it, social currency. You go mingle with people a little bit. You’re a sales guy. You and I used to do this, right? You find somebody. You start a conversation. You see where it goes. We’re qualifying at every stage. If you can figure out who it is that wants and needs your thing and then you can filter them against, do I like this person or not, all it comes down to is having conversations. Donnie B.: Yeah, absolutely. You know, I would add on there, discipline conversations and the only reason I say discipline is if you don't have a regiment on a daily basis to do business growth in your business, you're going to be stacked up against it too often. The one thing that … I started in January for my business. It was a minimum of 10 reach-outs every day. Do I go to LinkedIn or I go to Facebook? And I just start reaching out to the followers, right? Not even trying to go after people I don't know except for getting guests on the podcast. I do that as well. But I go to my followers and I can tell you, just having conversations with people that are already into you, maybe you know each other because you're in the same group or you hang out. Just jumping on a 30-minute Zoom call is an amazing game-changer of what it can do for your business. Landon P.: If you want to get fit, you have to do the doing. If you want to get rich, you have to do the doing. If you want to get clients, you have to do the doing, right? And a lot of people, like the people that I tend to focus with, they go kill it and they bring on five or six clients and then they've got to do all that client work, right? It’s this rollercoaster. Real estate people are a perfect example of this. They prospect all month long and next month, they've got seven deals that close and then the next month, nothing. So the month after that, then they go prospect all month long and then the month after that and they do like four or five decent months throughout the year and they're like, “Man, I should be making so much more money but I only did like $150,000 this year. What the hell?” It's that process. It's the wax on, wax off that you need to do every day. And there's a lot of ways to only put 15 or 20 or 30 minutes into it every day just to initiate those conversations. People just don't know how to do it. How do you start a conversation with somebody? Donnie B.: You say hello. Landon P.: Right. Exactly. Donnie B.: Here's a theory that I realized somewhere along my journey is people want to plateau. They want to get to a spot to where they can say, “I'm done,” right? And I did it even on part of my journey is I was always that, “If I could just get to this sales number, I can turn it off.” What I realized is every time I got to that sales number, if I turned it off, it would go the other direction, right? And so it took me a long time to quit making the gigantic leaps and start doing the incremental growth. Something I could do consistently and steadily on a regular basis. Landon P.: Okay. So let's talk about that. When I started in the commercial credit and collections industry, I was tasked like literally, when I was hired, I was told, if you take this job, you're required to make 300 dials a day. Okay. So I did that and as soon as I could figure out how to make less dials in a day, I did that, right? For everybody listening, let's kind of like paint the picture of how this looks from an actual sales guy’s perspective. Cool. I don't know what I'm doing in this new industry. I don't know anything about the products. I don't know anything about the clients. I don't know anything about even the sales pitch, the script they handed me. So I'm going to go practice and I'm going to screw it up and I'm going to do that three hundred times a day for as long as it takes to get good enough to begin closing clients. And once I begin closing clients, I look at it and go, how could I do this more effectively because I hate the grind? And then pretty soon, you're making 250 a day and then pretty soon, you're making 200 dials a day and pretty soon, you're making a hundred dials a day and most salespeople go, “Oh, one fish at a time? Go get a net full of fish. How do I do that?” And then people go, “Well, they're all still small fish. How do I get a bigger fish?” And then they go, “Fish for a bigger fish.” And most salespeople end up hunting for whales, right? Which is why it's a cliché in the industry. Most salespeople stop there. I only need to prospect 30 people a month because two of them eventually will come in. Even though it takes six months. Eventually, those come in and I've got all these whales and it's amazing and they stop there. But if you stop doing that prospecting, the new whale stop coming in because that perfect referral business doesn't exist at that level. You got to go to the next level. Who also serves all the whale clients that I want and has a problem because their whale clients have a problem that only I can solve? How do I solve that guy's problem? You do that two or three times a month and now, they're sending you whale clients and it's on autopilot because you're solving a problem at a much higher level. So I went from calling 300 times a day to, at the end, it was literally the last two and a half years, maybe ten calls a month and they weren't to cold calls. They were to people that I had already had some interaction with on either social media or through another contact and that's just it. As a business-owner, how do you perfect the ongoing lead generation strategy in your business? This is interesting. We're actually doing stuff with this right now. There's all these tactics. There's all these things you can do, right? Facebook ads, excellent. But if you turn the Facebook ads off, your lead flow stops. LinkedIn stuff. I can go hammer people on LinkedIn 15-20 minutes a day, every day. But when I stopped doing that, they stopped coming in. All of these are add-ons after you've established the stability in your business of referral partners, right? Referral partners that you're not paying them to send you stuff. You're solving problems for them that they happily send you all of the leads that you actually want and then you can scale using all of the, what are actually meant for scaling, not for stabilizing a business. It's just, I don't know if you can tell but this is what jazzes me up because this is what I like doing. Donnie B.: Well, here's the interesting thing. Most of your business-owners now, face the same dilemma that I faced is I was an employee. Going from employee mindset to business-owner mindset is a massive leap because it's turning off the, “I do a job. I do my eight to five. I do what’s expected of me,” to thinking about, “How do I scale it? How do I grow it? How do I level that up and make a bigger business?” And if you've spent your entire career looking at it from one perspective, trying to step back and look forward can be in a monstrous leap. It proved that way for me when I first launched my business and I got really good at making a good sales job and not a company as I started out figuring this all out. How do you make that mental shift to be able to wrap your head around what referral partners should I be going after? Landon P.: The truth? Donnie B.: Yeah. Landon P.: Most people have to go start at three, five, seven businesses and screw them all up before they have that because here's the thing, you and I can tell anybody anything and it can be the right advice. It can be the thing they need to know but until they draw that as their own conclusion and go, “Yeah, that's correct,” they will never follow that with the actions that take that advice. If people will understand that if you take the skillset that you've got or you take a new thing that you've never had any money generated around but you love doing it and you go do that doing and all of the pieces to that that you don't like doing, either find somebody else that can do it or find somebody else that will do it temporarily for trade. Finding referral partners is as easy as solving a problem. If you can figure out who has a problem and you can figure out how to solve it in a way that other people haven't been able to figure out, that's where you make a lot of money. And here's the thing with referral partners. It's like sex. If you have to pay for it, it's probably not the kind you want, right? So a lot of people think of this referral game as this, “Oh, they sent me a client. I'm required to send them a client.” That shit never works. “Oh, they sent me a client. I've got to pay for it.” That stuff never works. Now, marketers, we can do stuff where it's like affiliate commissions and we can do JV partner stuff. But business-owners, they need to go about it. Who can I solve a problem for that has people they can send me and I'm solving their problem by helping their clients? Real estate agents, here's one way to look at it. If you're a real estate agent, the best way to look at this is, if you're selling homes in Phoenix, who owns the best pool company in town, right? Because most of the homes that you're going to be selling have something wrong with the pool because pools suck, right? If you're a mechanic and you do transmissions, who's the best referral partner? The people that manage the fleets around town that don't have their own in-house mechanic shop, right? There's a lot of ways to look at this. It’s just getting creative. Who is already serving all of the perfect-for-me clients that has a problem that I can creatively figure out, “Oh, if their clients all had this, they benefit like this and if they benefited either monetarily or made their life easier or it made them a rockstar to their clients, that's a pretty easy sell.” Donnie B.: Yeah. You've been taking them smarten-them pills, haven't you? Landon P.: You know what, dude, it's all out of necessity. I hated the prospecting thing but I did it because if I could get somebody on the phone, I could talk them into doing the thing. And once I figured out there's an easier way to do that part, it's all based on relationships, my model changed. Then I went, “Okay, cool. What's the fastest way I can get to that next level that I want to get to?” And it was all out of necessity. I don't want to have to work doing stuff that I don't like and I might be biased but I think most people kind of feel that way. Donnie B.: Yes, I would agree. And I love the fact that you're so focused on business-owners because my mind going from years being in Sandler doing that training, I'm always so focused on the salesperson, right? Because that's the arena I knew, right? I knew how to grow and adapt and I knew what was going on in the salesperson’s head. It's refreshing to take this all to a business-owner standpoint. So good on you, brother. Good on you. So where is all this crazy-ass world going to take you? I mean, you're becoming a name in some circles. Not a good name, by the way, but a name. Landon P.: That's funny. Donnie B.: In some circles and I can't tell you how many people came to me and said, I got to get you on the show and were throwing your name around and that's fun when you get several people you trust that are throwing a guest’s name around. So what's the vision for this whole thing? Landon P.: Honestly, I don't and here's an interesting thing. As a sales guy, most of us are supposed to have this predetermined endgame or our agenda. I don't. I was basically dragged into kicking and screaming doing this thing because here's my take on it, I'm a sales guy, right? There's a lot of names that you and I can both drop that they do it the old school way and they teach the tactics and those people go make money. Fantastic. Awesome sauce. I don't dig it. I just, like, right? I think society is headed in a direction where we're kind of tired of that which is why it's … and here's … all the way down to the very bottom of it. Either you're playing the long game to win the long game or you're playing to eventually lose. There is no other way in my opinion to look at life in any way, shape or form. Whether that's your business or your relationship with your wife or the relationship you've got with your neighbors. Either you're playing the long game to win the long game or you're playing intentionally to eventually lose and I didn't want to come into this sales arena, sales training game from a, “Oh, he's a sales guy but he's got a different take on it.” No. You know what? I actually teach people how to people. I teach people how to have relationships with people they want to have relationships with. Where this eventually goes, I have no idea. Donnie B.: I love that honesty because here's something funny about me that I love telling people. I don't think goalsetting works, right? And the reason it doesn't is, as soon as somebody sets a goal, it automatically demotivates them because they don't believe they can get there in the first place. I'm all about incremental growth and milestones and knocking down a target. And once that target’s knocked down, then going for the next target. And just seeing what turns up and what comes and what relationships happened from there. I love that you actually don't know where this is going to end up which allows you to be in the moment and just go with the flow, man. Landon P.: Right. There's so many ways this can go and to your point with the whole goalsetting thing, a lot of people miss a lot of really cool opportunities and experiences because they've determined, “This is the thing I'm going to go get.” Life is so fluid and shit happens and changes so fast that if you pigeonhole yourself with a goal like that, you’re just screwing yourself. And not only do most people demotivate themselves to actually accomplish that because it's usually way too big, but other people on the other side of that, they think, now it's been accomplished and so they're demotivating themselves because they've created a goal and it's always just down the road. It's always three months. When I get here, when I get that, when I do that, right? No. It's what's going on right this minute. Donnie B.: Yup. Landon P.: I will continue to do what I enjoy doing. And right now, what I'm enjoying doing is working with people that are like, real people, down-to-earth that are like, “I do this really cool thing and it's fucking amazing.” And the people that I do it for love it and it gets them this crazy result and I don't know how to turn them into clients because I don't know who they are or where they're at. And I love walking people through that process to where they go, “Man, six months ago, I didn't know where my next client was coming from and now, I've got too many clients and I just waitlisted a guy. That's never happened to me before.” That's what I enjoy doing. And for now, that's what I will do. Donnie B.: That's awesome. Landon, how do people find you? How do they get in touch with you? How do they make fun of your funny hairdo? All that stuff. Landon P.: I have a fledgling podcast and I'm actually a little like hesitant. No, I'm kidding. I do a podcast every week on this whole idea, relational selling and relationships and all that. or you can come hang out with us on our group, our Facebook group. It's and if you're a fit, stick around. If you're not, go away. Donnie B.: It's really called Gorilla Juice? Landon P.: Yeah. The URL for the group is Gorilla Juice. It's Getting Clients Without Being Salesy. It's Gorilla Army Nation (Getting Clients Without Being Salesy). Donnie B.: That's awesome. That's awesome. Are you going to make an energy drink called Gorilla Juice? You should. Landon P.: Dude, we've been, yeah. Mustards and hot sauces and coffee drink. Yeah. Donnie B.: Well, you got to get the microbrew in there as well. I mean, if you're going to go, you got to go all out. I mean … Landon P.: A vodka, a whiskey, right? Donnie B.: For me, a spiced rum and I'll be perfect. But dude, this has been a blast, man. Thanks for jumping on and doing this. I was looking forward to this one. This was every bit of what a kind of conversation I was expecting out of this, man. So I appreciate that. So here's how I wrap up every show and I do stump some people. So get ready. If you were going to leave the Champions that listen to this show, 78 countries, people all around the world that are going through it on their journey and they’re hearing other people's stories of what they've overcome to get where they want to go. If you were going to leave them with a quote, a phrase, a saying, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey especially when they're stacked up against it and going through it, what would be that quote or phrase you would say, “Remember this,”? Landon P.: Stop thinking about all the stuff you don't like and don't want and actually put time into defining what you want and how you want it to be. Donnie B.: Love it. Love it. Landon, thanks for doing this, brother. I appreciate you. One of these days, if you bring guests on your show, I'm going to come on there and make fun of you there too. Landon P.: That would be rad. Donnie B.: But thanks, brother. I really appreciate it. Thanks for doing this. Landon P.: Awesome sauce. Thanks for having me on. Peace out, Cub Scouts. [Music] Donnie B.: Well, there you have it, guys. Two badasses sitting down and just having a freaking balls-out killer conversation. Man, I got to tell you. It's a rarity that I get to sit across from a guy like Landon and really dive into some freaking tactical stuff. I mean, every time that guy opens his mouth, I swear, he's embracing the mindset of a teacher and throwing out just knowledge that the everyday Joe can use to really up their game. I fucking love talking to him. And I know I probably sound a little bit of a fanboy of the guy. But dude, I rarely find somebody who lives off life with a lot of similar philosophies of my own, man. So I really, really appreciate him. Let me tell you, if you're not hanging out in the Gorilla Army Nation in Facebook, Getting Clients Without Being Salesy, get your ass over there. It's a phenomenal group out there. I don't know how many members are but it's in the tens of thousands and he's doing really, really cool stuff. So you need to check it. Also, if you will do me the favor and go to Facebook, type in Success Champions, click on groups and come hang out in our group. We are doing some amazing things from launching masterminds, to doing some really, really cool things and the whole thing is Badasses Rise Together. So you really need to come hang out so we can all level up. We can all go for it and you can hear more from guys like Landon and other past guests I've had on the show blowing some shit up so we can step into our own. I fucking love you guys. I really appreciate you always tuning in. I appreciate the feedback, the comments, the emails, the messages. Do me a favor, share this show with somebody, send them some love, leave me a review on wherever you listen to podcast and for the love of God, go blow some shit up. Music by Freddy Fri
Donnie B.: All right, guys. I got to tell you, strap it in for today because I met this gal at a freaking summit and her whole presentation had me cracking the fuck up. I just love her vibe. I love her energy. This is going to be a fun one. So I'm bringing in Rachel Kaplan. I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie’s Success Champions. [Music] Donnie B.: Rachel. Okay. So my dear, please, tell us your story. Rachel K.: Oh, thanks for having me and botching my name. I love it. Donnie B.: It's awesome. It's awesome. That's how you know you got a professional podcast host when he just totally blows your name completely up. Rachel K.: Love it. It doesn't matter, right? Yeah. So my story and I'm assuming you mean like the deep, dark, real story, right? Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, can you do me a favor? Rachel K.: Sure. Donnie B.: Because you just launched a really badass podcast. Rachel K.: I did. Donnie B.: What's the chance you could pull off your pitch for our listeners really quickly? Rachel K.: Oh my God. I know it by heart. Donnie B.: Fucking, guys. Listen to this. Absolute fun and let it rip. Rachel K.: We're going to start with the pitch. I'm going to take my mic out of the stand for this one. Okay. So success folks, what did you do to make that feeling go away this morning that you had to poop? Did you buy something? Eat something? Did you post something on social media to try to get enough likes? Or did you go to the nearest bathroom and take a poop? I'm guessing you did number two, literally, because you're potty-trained. So you know that that is the only way to make the feeling that you need to poop go away. But unfortunately, you are not emotionally potty-trained. So you, like me and so much of our culture waste countless hours, money, energy, effort trying to medicate and distract yourself out of your painful human emotions and it just doesn't work. When instead, you could just learn to let those hard feelings move through you like a good poop. I'm Rachel Kaplan, a successful psychotherapist and the host of the new and noteworthy podcast, The Healing Feeling Shit Show and I've got sad news, happy news and amazing news. The sad news is that when I was just 14, my first love committed suicide and that loss devastated my life. The happy news is it set me on a relentless pursuit to study the world's healing technologies. And the amazing news is that I have streamlined the single most effective and necessary skill that you, Donnie and your listeners need in order to have real well-being, true healing, let go of imposter syndrome and live the life of your dreams and it's as simple as fucking potty training. Let's collaborate. Join the feelings movement and let's flush this shit out together. Donnie B.: Oh, that's so fucking awesome. All right. So imagine you're in a room where you got tons of people pitching to try and get on your podcast and somebody like Rachel steps in and drops that on you. If you got a show like mine, you're fucking bringing her on. I mean, that's all there is to it. Rachel K.: Yeah. Super glad to be here and that was an amazing experience. It was a powerful thing to meet so many people really at the heart of their story and their mission and then to see how people do under pressure because it’s a lot of pressure to do something like that in front of 200 people and it really showed me, “Buckle up girl!” Donnie B.: Or as my people would tell you, “Suck it up, Buttercup. It's about to get real.” Rachel K.: Nice. I like that. Donnie B.: All right. Rachel K.: I mean, I just referenced my story but really, I mean, I was your average semi-secure, sensitive, awkward, almost teenager. I would say that this is not where all of my challenges and issues started. I was just growing up like everybody was growing up. But the first person that I really became obsessed with, in love with, just wanted to be with all the time, he was really kind of all I cared about and it started when I was 12, was this boy, this young boy named Keith and we were together for a couple of years. We were friends. And he was like, handsome, athletic, sarcastic, hilarious, the class clown, popular, all those things, right? And then in 1994, when we were both 14, this whole kind of situation unraveled where I thought he was going to maybe go to a drug rehab for a couple of months. But and I'm not going to spoil this story because actually, Episode 4 of The Healing Feeling Shit Show is the narrative in full glory. Donnie B.: Nice, shameless plug. Rachel K.: I mean, I don't get anything from you hearing that. But you’re going to have a much more beautiful, you're going to have a big, old, sappy cry kind of poop that day. When you listen to it, you're going to have your heart broken for your 14-year-old self. Anyway, basically, I was the subject of his suicide note. Donnie B.: Oh, fuck! Rachel K.: And yeah. He killed himself and I actually put my life on the line. I felt quite trapped in the situation. It's funny. I'm kind of like leaning over to the left because I'm trying to avoid this glare in my room. If I look like I'm falling over, it's just the light. So I did everything I could. I didn't know what to do. I was a child but I basically discovered that I thought that the best option to try to stop him was to tell him that I would kill myself also. And so I did that. I told him that. I told him I'd never forgive him and still, the next morning, I woke up to, and it took me some effort to find the suicide note because it was left in his house and his family didn't understand it. It was cryptic. Only I understood it. But basically, his suicide note meant, “Make sure my sun still shines.” Our nicknames were sunshine. So make sure that I don't commit suicide also. But no one knew that but I did. So that, I mean, talk about, I'll fuck you up, right? Donnie B.: Yeah. Real quick. Rachel K.: I think suicide is just utterly devastating for anyone at any age. It's really, and I'm not going to get into how far out and metaphysical I am but just so your listeners know and if anyone's drawn to this, it's also devastating for the person who does it and I do think part of my mission now as I harvest the gifts of this brutal journey that started in so much pain is to plug for the whole world that maybe suicide actually isn't an end to the pain. We won't go there because everyone believes what they believe about what death is and what's on the other side or not. But it's devastating for everyone involved and it took me a while. For a lot of years, I just felt like, “Well, I had to do this. I had to kind of start studying these healing modalities. I had to move toward relief and wellness.” But it was really a choice. I should give myself credit. I could have become a drug addict, right? I could have committed suicide myself. I could have … I did try things like moving into the recesses of my very quick mind for a few years. That was fun. Became bitchy and jaded and sarcastic and all kinds of methods to avoid this pain. But basically, I'd say, by the end of high school, I started coming back down the long 6 inches, 8 inches, what do you think? How long is my neck? I'm not sure. Donnie B.: 24. Rachel K.: 24 inches. We got a giraffe over here. I just started descending the length of my neck metaphorically back into my body where I really was pretty devastated and in pain and that was the beginning of a long journey, a very long journey and what's cool about what I'm doing with this and feel free to just wink at me if you want me to shut up. Donnie B.: I got you. I got you. Rachel K.: Okay. Is that, it really did lead me all over the world and part of in the last year, it's been almost exactly a year since I've been making my podcast and getting it out. What I've harvested, what I've realized in the kind of offering this into the world is like, I really have been at this for 25 years and my journey specifically brought me to, I lived in Nepal for a year. That's the little tiny country between, where Mount Everest is, between China and India, for anyone who doesn't know or didn't understand what I said. There, I started studying yoga and the Eastern traditions pretty young. Started teaching yoga by 22. Majored in Eastern religions, learned all kinds of like, what does the East have to offer as far as healing? And then I have a master's in counseling psychology and did all the training. I've done all the cutting edge modalities and trainings in Western psychology. And the person who is the most fucking helpful, really like the person I owe my well-being, my happiness, my life to, is someone who calls himself a traditional song healer. You’re probably like, “What is that?” Donnie B.: I have no idea what that even means. Rachel K.: Yeah. I mean, the best thing, the word that will peak the closest association for your listeners and for you is shaman. He’s someone who’s become deeply initiated into a native path and who is like a very gifted healer. I'd say he’s one of the most powerful healers alive on the planet. But he would hate that I'm talking about him on the Internet. I've agreed to him to not use his name. But really, the work I did with him, which was pretty badass. I mean, I have brought forth fire with a bow drill set that I fucking carved myself. I've been like on international like rock and roll tour by myself and bringing forth the fire, carving a set and bringing forth the fire is still the coolest thing I've ever done. The healing technologies that he had and the way he confronted me and showed me all the ways that I was still in pain and still acting out from that pain really changed my life. And there's a whole magic to it. Just one thing, I already mentioned this. This is a side note, but I happen to be a divorcee which I highly recommend. Donnie B.: I highly recommend. Wow! Rachel K.: And just one thing is, if someone says they’re divorced, probably the right answer is, “Congratulations.” Because we're also conditioned and so much of what I'm helping people understand is, how to relate to the conditioning that we have. We’re also conditioned to think that what makes people happy is, achieving these list of what our society gives us. Like, the white picket fence, the this, the that, the this, the that. And if it's not the right marriage, if it's not the right job, if it's not the right, it doesn't matter how great you look on Instagram. If you don't feel happy inside like really happy inside or really solid inside, then you're living a lie and you know it, right? But anyway … Donnie B.: Okay. Let's jump in. You got a fun shit. We're going to have some fun here. Rachel K.: Just the one thing I want to tell you. The reason I was working so hard with that healer is because I was in this beautiful but very challenged marriage and the day that I finally and organically without any effort, like I wasn't trying to control this, left the marriage was the 22-year anniversary of that young boy's death. And I was scheduled to move into this apartment on a Monday, but it was really rainy. So we pushed the movers and I pushed it back and I ended up moving out of my marital home on the dead boyfriend's birthday. So all I'm saying is, there is a magic in the universe and got me full circle to be able to offer what I'm offering and thank you, Donnie for letting me finish that story. Donnie B.: No, that’s awesome. Rachel K.: I’m ready now. Donnie B.: All right. So if you remember anything about me at the thing, I am not a big woo-woo guy. I so loved how many people were talking about the woo-woo stuff at that event. It was quite humorous to me. I mean, even so far as that I had a couple of people there try to do some of their woo-woo stuff on me to get on my show and none of it worked. I mean, but it was still funny to watch them try. But I say all that to say, I'm not a complete skeptic. I do believe in some of the stuff. I couldn't tell you what it is that I believe in, right? So, God, what a fucking crazy ass ride. Rachel K.: Yeah. Donnie B.: What made you decide to go overseas? Rachel K.: You know, I was in high school and my mom went back to college to finish college while I was in high school and she was in this Easternreligions class and she was like, “You know Rachel, I think you might be a Hindu.” She was wrong and I had a huge moment actually while I was living over there. It was Christmas and I was at a Hindu ashram and they were doing this whole Jesus thing and I was like, what the hell am I doing here? Like, I'll never be a Hindu. I'm not a Buddhist. Even no matter how dope your meditation practice is. I'm a Jew. Like, why am I so far from exploring the actual roots I have? What I was looking for, I would say that this experience really made me question, what is reality and how can there be God? How can the universe be good or be safe when something like this happens? And there's all kinds of books like, When Bad Things Happen to Good People. It's just like, if we're really awake to just know woo-woo, just like you're living in the world. It's hard to grok how there's so much pain and there's so much suffering and inequality and all these things and so in some way, I kind of put my, what I had been raised to believe was God and the Jewish world or the Jewish religion on hold. I was like, “No, I don't believe this.” And I was just looking for some answers and also, I'd say, Judaism has a kind of hidden mystical side. And so I was looking for something that felt more explicitly alive and one thing just to speak to the woo-woo, I mean, it's funny because I'm like the real deal in the sense of, I've actually studied all that shit. I speak Nepali. I’ve deeply delved into these different traditions and I can't stand when people lead with that. I mean, especially like on dating apps. Like when a guy looks like they're just like, they just can't wait to tell me how spiritual they are. I kind of want to puke in my mouth. Like, I think if you’re really spiritual, it means that you're a good person. You don't have to brag about it. You're showing up to your life. You're functioning well in the world and it's like a very personal, private connection that does not need to be on display. Donnie B.: Well, it's even funner when you happen to find yourself at a place where somebody automatically starts reading what your horoscope and they're way off and wrong. And when you tell them they’re wrong, they get really pissed off. Rachel K.: Yeah. Very spiritual right there. Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. I mean, they're completely into their … so it's amazing that, I don't know, some people carry their stuff around like it's a flag or a badge of honor that they've done something, you know? And it doesn't define you but some people want it to. Rachel K.: Right. Yeah. Yeah and this experience right now being so deep in the energy of the podcast and what I'm doing there, it’s interesting because it definitely connects me more to that suicide. But probably as recently as five or seven years ago, like most of my friends knew nothing about the story. I mean, it was a cool experience to go from being so defined by that to really like, not actually defining myself by that at all. And now, I'm kind of in this place where I'm holding both which is like, this really did impact my whole life. It changed the entire trajectory. I mean, I could be a fucking accountant. Who knows? Like, who knows what I would be? And I can't even regret it. I would never regret that it happened in the sense of, that would be regretting who I am and what I'm doing in the world and I also hold that it was really devastating. It really actually made a lot of things really hard and so to be able to be with both, the gift and also the challenge. It was a terrible burden that ends up being profoundly useful for hundreds of people and hopefully now, more than that. Donnie B.: Well, I'm a firm believer that everybody goes through something and it shapes them. It doesn't mean they were meant to go through it but it damn sure shapes their journey of who they become and oftentimes, you can look back on things and at least in theory, go, “Well, that taught me this.” Rachel K.: Right. Donnie B.: It doesn't mean it necessarily taught you that but you can take a lesson away from it. Rachel K.: If not, you're asleep. Donnie B.: Huh? Rachel K.: And if not, you’re asleep. Donnie B.: I agree. Well, most people avoid a challenge altogether. They don't want to step into it, right? They don't want to, 1, relive it because it's too traumatic, horrifying, whatever. They're not looking for the lesson, right? Or the flipside of it, they won't create challenges in their life moving forward because they're afraid of what they may discover once they put themselves in that situation. Rachel K.: Right. Donnie B.: How did you come up with this whole shit? You know, thought theory. Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, I’ll tell you one second. But I just want to speak to what you just said because it's really powerful which is, it's true like what you just spoke to is really at the heart of what I'm teaching with the Shit Show which is that if we are trying to avoid our pain and it makes sense that we are. It's the best strategy all of us have come up with. There's some biological and kind of early childhood origins for trying to avoid our pain and then our economy is literally funded by us believing that if we buy the next thing, we’ll feel worthy. And so all of the messages everywhere are not, “Go have your pain.” They’re, “You need this and you'll feel better if you do this and this and this.” And so what that does create, if we have that fear of our pain, our emotional shit, what I'd say, we can't actually live our lives. We can't take risks. Those people are not going to be blowing up their businesses. They're not going to be ragingly successful. They're not going to be willing and brave enough to fall in love because all those things become terrible risks and what I think the outcome of someone who learns how to feel their feelings and go through this deep healing journey that I'm creating or just deals with themselves in whatever way, is emotional resilience. And I say that emotional resilience is the new happy. It's better than happy because it's like, if you do the healing work, I feel pretty happy a lot of the time. But no one's going to be happy all the time if you're alive. We're all going to die. We're going to lose our cellphones. Shitty things happen. It's like, that's not what life is. Life is not a journey of only happy but if you know and I know that I can handle any feeling that comes because I can move it through me like a good poop, then I can actually be who I am. I can take these big risks. I can put myself out there because I know that when it gets hard, I'll just deal with it and that's what emotional resilience is and I think it’s like, ultimately liberating. Donnie B.: No, I love it. I love it. It's interesting is the years I spent in the sales training game. I did a lot of study on rejection because I was really trying to find the way to work with the people that I was training to get them out of their own way so they could actually go have a fucking conversation. It's all a sales call is. It's just damn conversation, right? And it was interesting. They actually tracked rejection as far back as the cavemen. And here's the thing. Back in the day with all the dinosaurs and shit, I just thought this was fascinating, is if you got rejected from the tribe of people, you were out on your own and that was dead, right? And it's an interesting concept and it was funny to stand in front of a room and go, “Dude, this shit is ingrained in you.” Rachel K.: Yes. Donnie B.: You got to step into it and move forward and knowing that shit's going to happen. I love saying shit a lot because you got me saying it because of your show. Rachel K.: Yeah. I talked about that in the same exact construct in the second episode which is like, how do we get so wounded? And it is like that. That confluence of that in our cells, in our nervous systems. We’re wired to feel like if we lose love, it's death and there was some truth there, right? Like an unloved, untended baby could die, right? Donnie B.: Right. Rachel K.: There's all kinds of science studies that are backing it and that's what informs a field of psychology today called Attachment Theory about just how important that secured attachment is. But if you combine that with the fact that we were raised by flawed humans who are doing their best and their parents were probably even having a harder time than they were. So what we are going to do is we're going to be conditioned based on that biology of, we’ll die if we're not loved to be who we think our parents need us to be and the degree of like, subtle messaging there and the degree of a little infant’s effort to do whatever it takes to stay close to the parent is so deep that what I say is, we kind of take all these parts of us and start pushing them down into the basement, right? So if you're a little boy and you cry a lot and your dad keeps telling you, I mean, this is the classic, right? About boys don't cry or don't be sensitive or even when parents just are like, “Shhh. You're okay. You're okay. Shhh.” It's like, there is this messaging not to feel and then you tap on middle school and high school and then our society is like, we have all these parts of us and the most impactful ones, the ones that really screw people up are the ones that get pushed down so early but we have all these parts of us that are pushed down into the psychological basement where we're trying to hide them at the dinner party or in the locker room or on a date and those parts, because they're not part of us because we don't show them, because we can't be loved for them and with them, despite them, we end up feeling like they make us worthless or unlovable. Like, we’re not enough or we’re too much. Some kind of inherent core wound that makes us feel like if people knew us well enough, they wouldn't love us and we suck. Donnie B.: Yeah, I love it because one of the reasons I launched this show was, I grew up on inspirational messages. That was my go-to. Give me the good after-school PBS special or something, right? That was my thing. And when I launched this show, I want to hear what everybody else overcame and because somewhere along my journey, I don't know what happened. I realized that what you went through and the minute you can share that story to other people is one of the most life-changing things you can do is share what you've been through because your healing or you may still be going through the healing process, helps somebody else on their journey and that to me is one of the most amazing things in the world. But people are so scared of that past of what people will think of them. Go back to the rejection side of things, right? They don't want to share what they've been through for fear of what may happen. Rachel K.: Right. Yeah and then we never can realize that we're lovable even though we're lovable with and when we push all those parts of us, whether it's what we've been through or just what we thought was wrong with us down, we're not going to create a life that serves us as well. And so the early journey and I'm going to come back to your question about, how did I come up with the Shit Show model but the early journey of healing is really about getting very curious about, who's in the basement? Who have you pushed down? Who are you trying to hide and how can you make them the VIP? I recommend one simple, fun, awkward thing your listeners can do is put a picture of you at the most awkward space. Like, a young picture where you were sure that you were really just like, not okay yet. Donnie B.: So that was my entire elementary years. Rachel K.: Yeah. Donnie B.: All of them combined. Rachel K.: A most horrifically awkward and cutest picture of you and put it on your home screen and every time you look at it, explore. Can you turn toward that part of you? Can you look at it without that repulsion or aversion and just be like, “Oh look, I was so cute.” And start to kind of welcome it and basically, to heal these parts that the shortcut and I describe these things at length in various places but like, you got to turn them from the part that's like sequestered and the problem, the scapegoat into the VIP and when you do that, because like, in the beginning, yeah, our parents shaped us and there's lots of people who can be angry or play the victim card. But once you're a grown-ass adult, which I think most people probably on this podcast listening to this are, it's like, nobody's going to do it for you and nobody can do it for you. So it's your job. You are the person who kept that part of you in the basement the rest of your life. And so it's your job to reestablish trust with this part that's like, “Who the fuck are you, Donnie? I don't know you at all.” That was awkward. Whatever it is. Donnie B.: But that's complete ownership, right? I mean, that is truly taking ownership of your life which is one of the scariest things in the face of the earth for people. I’m always correlating shit back to sales because that's my game but early in my career, my years, I mean, it was always somebody else's fault. The company wasn't providing enough marketing. The economy sucked or whatever else and it wasn't until somewhere along that journey, I got to the point where I said, “Fuck! Quit blaming everybody else and suck it up, Buttercup and get after it!” Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, that's another place where the shit metaphor is so perfect because, can I poop your food out for you? Donnie B.: No. Rachel K.: I can’t. No matter how much I might co-dependently want to. So here's the deal, you asked me where this came from and it's like, I told you I did all the study. It's been a long journey. I've been a professional paid psychotherapist and gotten paid somewhere because you know, I'm in the beginning of, I need all your books and supports on how you actually monetize a podcast. But I've been doing that work for 13 years and doing my own healing work for 25 and so what I came to understand is the single best metaphor for any person to get how they needed to learn to relate to their emotions is pooping because as I said in my pitch, even though I know not everybody has an easy time pooping just like people can't cry, people can't cum, there's all kinds of things that organic mechanisms our bodies have to keep us in homeostasis get messed up because we get messed up, right? But basically, I'm going to put out the theory that you have an easier time pooping than you do crying and shaking when you're afraid and dealing responsibly with your anger. So generally, we know that when we have to poop, that's the only way to not have to poop is to poop and it's actually literally the same, not metaphorically the same. It's actually the same that the only way to truly feel better whether we're anxious or we suddenly get really mad or we’re heartbroken is to allow that feeling to come out of the body. Take the letter ‘e’ off the word emotion. What do you have? Donnie B.: Motion. Rachel K.: Motion. It means, to move and everyone that I start working with in the beginning, they say to me, “But if I feel my pain, if I feel my sadness, I'll never stop crying. I'm going to drown in it.” And it's a very natural fear. But unless someone just experienced a death or a breakup, let's put on a timer. Let's see if you can cry for more than two minutes. It's actually tremendously hard. It takes like a lot of strength and a certain kind of, a lot of what I'm teaching, the reason why the cliché or metaphor bumper sticker level, “Have your feelings. Join the feelings movement,” isn't enough. The reason why I actually put in hours and hours into creating a course and now, I'm putting all kinds of support to that course is that it's actually really hard to do if you spent most of your life trying to not have your feelings and what are some ways people might not have feelings? It's like, drugs, alcohol, buying. I mean, the white things behind me right now. It's like a closet full of sweaters. Every time I had a feeling, that's my drug of choice. It's like, I buy pretty clothes. I love clothes but we all have these things that are go-to. Whether it's porn or success. How many people are trying to think that if you have a beefed-up enough LinkedIn profile or you have enough promotion, do you have enough money in the account, you're going to feel better about yourself? Well, surprise! Why do we see so many incredibly-amazing, talented, successful, pinnacle of our society kind of artists and creators committing suicide or dying through overdose? It's because none of that shit works and what a devastating moment when you reach the top of that ladder, you’re then alienated because you're famous and people are weird with you and you're still in terrible pain. And so what this whole mission is like, “Look guys, we have a way to understand it. Every single CEO and business person and political leader and woo-woo person and skeptic, everyone poops. It is actually as grounded as it could be. It's not woo-woo.” It's like our bodies, we sweat, we poop. If we get a cut, the body knows how to heal it. Of course, the emotional system has a mechanism as well. And so it's really just the way to help people understand it. And the last thing I'll say about how I came up with the metaphor is that it's very intentional that I'm choosing something that is shrouded in shame. Like if I dropped a really stinky deuce, I wouldn't be like, “I really want you to smell it. Come here.” And because there's a little bit of shame we have, hopefully, we don't advertise their shit. We don't shit with other people in the room. Although, I have. It’s a great way to ruin a chemistry. And so there's some shame about pooping but I think there's actually less shame about that than there is around the parts that don't feel like they're enough or that feel worthless. And so I'm intentionally bridging something and then putting it, I mean, the end of my jingle is a flush. It's an amazing jingle. It was the first thing I did. I’m like, “I'm making a podcast.” I love music. So I'm like, “I’m making a podcast.” And I wrote and sang a jingle. It’s awesome. You got to hear it. It'll get stuck in your head though. I'm kind of putting this whole information, this journey in lightness, in humor. Every episode has a story and all of the listeners, guys, I’m running out of poop stories. I need your poop story. Basically, each episode has a really funny, whoops, I pooped my pants kind of or something similar. Donnie B.: I'll send you one because it involves an RV and extracting the poop out of the RV. I've got it. I'll get that story to you. Rachel K.: So putting it in lightness. The truth is, this is really heavy where becoming able to feel our pain can be scary but it's like, it's not a big deal. It's no bigger deal than your next poop. Like, we don't look at each poop to say, will all of my poops be like this? Or what does it mean about me that I pooped. I pooped yesterday. What if the guys find out I'm pooping every day? People don't think that but we do about our feelings. Oh man, I'm crying again? What's wrong with me? And so I'm trying to be like, lighten up the whole field around it, reduce the shame because that's the only way we're going to not keep doing these horrific acts. Donnie B.: Let me challenge this just a little bit because I love where this is all coming from. I really truly do. But I've been pooping since I came out of the womb. Rachel K.: Nice. Donnie B.: Right? Everybody is. And shit, I'm good at it. Give me a good strong cup of black coffee and life is good, right? Yeah. Yeah. Totally. Totally. So it's natural. It comes to me, right? It's clockwork. Rachel K.: Right. Yeah. Donnie B.: Working on yourself is not. Rachel K.: But it’s not working on yourself. It's not like a new age course in the sense of like reflecting. What I'm saying is that the emotions, so the way I describe emotions is they’re clusters of sensation rolling in squads. Donnie B.: All right. Rachel K.: So they're like, they're really intense sensations that when you get angry, you might feel a lot of heat rising. Your forearms might swell. You might have tightness in the muscular structure. Donnie B.: So like in the movie, Inside Out. Which one of those little characters is this? Rachel K.: There was an anger character, right? Donnie B.: Yeah. The little red dude. Rachel K.: What I'm saying and because people have been trying to not, they haven't been feeling for so long. There is work you need to do. I see what you're saying, but I'm saying, if we can get the body back into and the ability, the emotional system back into its organic kind of how it’s intended to serve us, what it will mean is, you start and I'll come back to, there's something important about how to deal with people who have a backlog of log. Donnie B.: Did you sit around and just see how many puns you can come up with? Rachel K.: Not necessarily. But I will tell you that I'm getting, I am now, I've always been associated with the band, Radiohead and rainbows. So those are my brands where people, they send me pictures of rainbows. I'm like, how did I do this? This is like stunning branding. Donnie B.: Did you start getting pictures of shit coming to you? Rachel K.: I'm at least getting the poop emoji’s. People are like, “I thought about you on the toilet today.” And you know what? I love it. Yeah. So if we can get our bodies back to that state where we don't have that massive backlog, then it will mean that when something happens that throws us off, our body will send us the signal. Very much like you get a signal when you need to shit. You have these sensations you know how to identify. So you would get a set of sensations that you need to identify or that you could identify that, “Oh, I think I need to cry.” And once you start these practices, like I have practices, Episode 7 through 10, and I'm going to give your listeners a way to kind of dive right into the action and try it out which I'll tell you about but like, they each break down one of the feelings. So anger is where I start. It's the most taboo emotion and one of the ways, I mean, certainly, the thing I've done that was the best for me is chopping wood, dead wood with an ax and I've taken two dozen of my clients out to the woods with axes and taught them how to chop wood. But you can also simulate chopping on your bed. You’d take a towel or a blanket and you beat the shit out of your bed or your cabinet. Donnie B.: Oh, shit. If somebody wants some work, come out to the farm. I got plenty of trees that need to be taken down. We’ll chop some logs up. I'll put their asses to work and we'll work on your anger. Rachel K.: Yeah. Then they also have to work on probably hitting the wood in the certain place. Donnie B.: Oh, yeah. And then stack it and then clean everything up and put all the tools away. Rachel K.: Yeah. All physical activity is actually really good for anger work. So there are certain things you do when you need to have an anger tantrum and there are ways to do it when you're in a car. There are ways to do it on a walk. There's ways to do it at the gym and then there are certain things, a different kind of energy. So anger, what do we want to do when we are angry? We want to destroy. We want to explode. It's like an external energetic, right? Not to get too woo-woo. But what happens when we cry, right? Or when we're sad? It's like, we want to collapse. Water literally drips out of our face. It's a downward energy. It's a slowing down. It’s a swampy pulling energy. And so to move that, you have to do a different set of activities. You can't do great sadness work after you've had caffeine because you're like, “I feel great.” That's why we all love caffeine but caffeine is fine for anger work, but for sadness work, it's about slowing down. It's about, how do you swaddle yourself? Whether it's in your bed or in a bathtub with warm water and sad music. Like, how do you create that kind of containment where you actually can start to open up to how sad you are? And the same thing, fear and shame are the deeper layers. Fear is tricky because it's both explosive and implosive and so you have to either kind of have a frenetic fear party where you just twitch and shake. That's what animals do, literally. They shake when they're in … once they reach safety after trauma, they will just shake it until they feel better or with fear, sometimes, we feel paralyzed, right? We can't move or so we feel helpless and then that would be more of a crying release. So it's like, what I'm actually teaching you is, how do you actually tune into the way these sensations need to move? It's not in the head. It's not in our fancy thoughts. It's like being in the body where we can feel the thing that rises and needs to move just like your poop and then it's over. Donnie B.: So here's an interesting thing, is and I love this analogy. This whole thing is actually pretty cool. But through high school, I was an asshole. I was a guy invited to the parties because of the stupid shit that I was doing and a lot of times, it ended up in freaking some stupid high school fight of some sort. So I went to see a counselor on my parents’ recommendation. This dumbass counselor looked at me and said, “Here's what I want you to do. Every time your anger fills up, I want you to grab an ice cube and slam it against the wall so it shatters into a million pieces.” He’s like, “The other thing I want you to do is, if you don't have any more ice cubes, I want you to punch your pillow.” This is the two things he tells me. Let me tell you, I chunked a hundred ice cubes, I punched the shit out of my pillow, it didn't slow anything down. Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, I want to do therapy with you. But what do you think was going wrong for you? Why were you so angry? Donnie B.: It was upbringing and everything else. But it's, I just, I struggle with people putting and I'm not saying you put a blanket over everything but the same methodology doesn't work for everybody. Rachel K.: Yeah. Well, there was also, yeah. That's not the whole picture and one of the … so one of the episodes where I get most into strategy, the next episode is like troubleshooting. I'm like, “Yeah, that sounded easy. It's not and here are all the problems you’re going to have.” And one of the things I speak to is, it's not a fix-all. Now, the truth is, it's not a fix-all but anyone who can't have their feelings is going to definitely be not well. Just like if you weren't shitting, you wouldn't be healthy. It's not possible to be healthy if you're repressing all your feelings. But it doesn't mean that having your feelings is always enough. I mean, I think that what I'm outlining for people is always going to be tailorable and unique to that person which is why ideally, that's why this is like a fun adventure of, how do I make this very personalized work something that I can share with a massive group of people? I mean, we're coming up on 20,000 downloads at five weeks in and how do I make it useful for them? And also, how do I make myself available? And how do I help people kind of work with this? So that's been a fun creative project for me. But like part of it is, the feelings. The skill that I'm teaching is the feelings but the other piece and what I would have wanted to do with you if I was with you back then is really explore what was going on. I mean, you were obviously, when we're children, we’re subject to our environment. It's the one place where victim mentality or helplessness. We don't have full agency and control over our lives. We can't set up all of what we need. And so, did you have the support you needed to be dealing with whatever you were dealing with? What were those messages? Donnie B.: The interesting thing about that time is, I went and seen a different counselor dude. Whatever the hell he was, psychologist. I don't know what he was. And we sat down and had an hour-long conversation. At the end of that conversation, he said, “I want to talk to your parents.” I said, “Cool. Cool.” I left the room, went out and sat on the bench. Mom and dad walked out and said, “All right, cool. Let's go.” I asked them years later what that counselor said to them because that session fixed a lot of my shit. Rachel K.: Hell, yeah. Donnie B.: The reason it fixed it was he simply told Mom and Dad, “Let him go. Let him fucking explode. He's going to hit rock bottom so fucking hard that he's going to start climbing.” He was right. It’s exactly what freaking happened. So it was an interesting moment because I had an understanding that what I was doing wasn't the right actions. But I had no reason to stop. Rachel K.: Yeah. Donnie B.: It was interesting. Rachel K.: Yeah, no, rock bottom really, it's something to push up against. Donnie B.: Yes. Oh, J.K. Rowling has the best quote of all times on it. “Rock bottom is a foundation I built my life.” And I freaking love it. Rachel K.: There's a similar thing here in the sense of, if we're trying to stay above our feelings, our pain, our worthlessness, our shame, I mean, shame actually burns like hell. I mean, it's like, to really feel how worthless and wretched we can feel, it's actually excruciatingly uncomfortable. So when we sink down, when we get the skills to do that where we actually can experience these parts of us, there's no stress, there's a sense of peace and this is who I am. And then things really start to open up and flow. I have clients every week come in being like, “I was able to cry for half an hour.” And they're so proud of themselves or like, they had some tantrum and it shifts things where the thing that you were trying to not do becomes the thing that you can feel strong and own your strength for. And I really think if we don't earn something, we can't own it. And so when there is that challenge of hitting rock bottom or learning how to overcome your resistance to your feelings and feel it and learning how to do all these hard things, that's where we actually feel good about ourselves and proud and that's what can't be taken from us. That's not the validation. That's like worth. Donnie B.: Right. I just had this pop in my head. Because of my military background, I have a shit ton of veterans that listen to this show and the biggest struggle that veterans have is what they get once they get out of the military. It's not usually what they've gone through that destroys them. It's the lack of the buddy system. It's the lack of the camaraderie. It's the lack of those people around that takes them down to the wrong and dark paths. So two seconds, if you can think about it off the top of your head, how does somebody work through that when you spent years with the same 30 guys day in, day out, shit, showered, shaved together, the whole nine yards and now, you're out on your own trying to figure out, what the fuck am I supposed to be doing with my life? Rachel K.: Right. Well, it's a really good question and one of the things that I think it speaks to is another piece of the healing puzzle which is, we need to be connected to something bigger than ourselves. And I mean, I don't know. It's kind of surprising to me in this day of modern technology where we've got Facebook groups for fucking everything. I'm surprised that there aren't more ways that … Donnie B.: There's groups for veterans. The problem is the bravado, right? So if a guy goes in there and yeah, there's situations where if somebody's really south, the whole groups usually will come together and take care of him, right? But most times, man, if somebody shares what they're going through, it's not necessarily looked upon because you're supposed to be a badass at that point, right? Rachel K.: That’s the thing. That’s why I feel so strongly about reducing the shame around pain. And that will help the veterans as well. I mean, one thing, this is not exactly what you asked about with community but one of the therapeutic tools I practice which is like the gold star standard which every veteran should know about and look into getting which should be covered through the vet insurance is EMDR. It's , very effective, very quick tool to really process very acute trauma and then if you can't connect or if you can’t EMDR … Donnie B.: I had a gal on the show that had a very traumatic childbirth and she has like the 50th smallest baby ever born in the world that survived and EMDR is what helped her get through it. I was trying to recall her name but … Rachel K.: Yeah, it's cool. I mean, I actually think it should be malpractice to not know EMDR as a therapist. Also, just to offend everybody, I think that our therapeutic industry is B minus at best right now and part of my show is really being like, “Come on people, be willing to make people uncomfortable. Don't just try to keep them comfortable for their money.” Donnie B.: But that's most of the practice is. To jump in your bandwagon, is it's a business for them. They're not trying to help people. If they can keep them longer, less people they got to go find to use their fucking service. Rachel K.: I started firing my clients. I'm like, “This isn't working. You don't want to do it? You want to be a victim? No. I don't need your money.” Donnie B.: I tell everybody from a coaching perspective, “Hey look, if you're going to work with a coach, if they don't tell you that you're going to grow beyond their ability to coach you, then go find a different coach because that coach that want to keep you forever is a fucking idiot. But doesn't know actually how to help somebody move forward in their life.” Rachel K.: Yeah. So for those vets who are feeling alienated and alone and alone with their pain, I mean, to whatever extent they can start to get that, every single human, whether or not you've been in war or not or been in some of the extremes that they've been in or not has pain. And so there's nothing wrong with your pain and if they can start to turn toward it with a little more gentleness and curiosity and care, that's a really important word, care toward the part of them that's hurting. It's like, sometimes, when we're hurting, we want to attack ourselves. Like, what's wrong with me? That means you're literally attacking yourself for being in pain which is like, you've been shot by an arrow and you shoot another arrow just because the first arrow is there. We're already in pain. So that's part of what you can do. And then if the veteran community doesn't feel safe for those people as a means of sharing or connecting, it's really important to find what does and it doesn't always have to be humans. In fact, humans are often kind of out of balance. Sometimes, the natural world is often in balance. If you have literally no one to talk to, go find the closest most comfortable spot to create a relationship with a tree. Go every day and talk to a tree about your pain. Find out what kinds of activities, what kinds of things do you enjoy doing. Whether it's like a craft or a hobby or building or knitting. I don't know how many veterans are knitting. But what the fuck? It's 2019. Like some kind of … Donnie B.: A lot of veterans can saw. I don't know about knit. But we can saw. Rachel K.: Knitting for me is so soothing but anyway, it's like, how do we connect to something bigger than ourselves? But the first step of any of that, because to allow ourselves to be part of anything, we have to start working on being kinder toward ourselves, reducing the shame that we are how we are and just, even though we might not know for sure, just imagining, maybe other people have these feelings. That's why it's so healing when we share our stories and we start talking about the worthlessness we feel. And one of the cool things that's been happening in my practice is, I have six of my own clients that I've interviewed. They chose to. I didn't twist their arm. But I interviewed them for the Shit Show. And so throughout the twelve episodes of the first season, their voices and their experience are woven into what I'm sharing. So other clients of mine are able to hear. First of all, they're able to get what I'm saying in the form of like kind of course versus like intermixed with their own personal content. And so they're kind of lighting up around, “It makes so much sense.” And they're also hearing other people who are using very similar language because they're all in my healing world with me talk about things that they feel so deeply and there's something just so healing to be like, “Oh really? Everyone struggles with, are they enough? It's not just me?” And it's just so healing to know, “No, dude. This is the human condition and we live in a sick world.” There isn't a lot of balance and health in our world. You don't have to be inherently healthy and well to be in leadership, you know what I mean? But we’re going to have money. And it wasn't always like that. You and I both talked about cavemen in a different, older way. It's like, back in the day, if you’re hunting or you're living in direct connection with the Earth where there's not Uber Deliver and there's not like a grocery store where you buy something that you have fucking no idea where it came from, you had to be inherently well and balanced and strong in order to contribute to survive. And we don't have to do that now. We turn on light switches and we don't even think about where it comes from or water and buy we consume. We just want things instantly and I'm guilty of this too. I'm not preaching like I'm not doing this. Who doesn't love Amazon Prime? It's like, there's no inherent well-being in our society. And so of course, we're all sick with this and so the more we can just get real and be like, “Okay, how do I create this for myself? How do I do the best I can with what I've been given? How do I move all this shit through me with a flush? That's what's up.” Donnie B.: Champions, I hope you guys are enjoying this and do me a favor guys, go listen to her shit and swamp her show for me because I think she's got a badass message. I think she's got a really cool way of doing it. You've brought something to the surface that ranks of one of the most, sex you don't talk about, money you don't talk about and shit is something you don't talk about. It's the third one that I haven't heard thrown around and I'm so excited that you're taking this on. So keep spreading your message and keep embracing the hell out of this. Rachel K.: Thank you. Donnie B.: So let's do this. How do people get in touch with you or find your show, all that fun shit? Rachel K.: There's two ways and the easiest way, the way that’s going to streamline you into something where I'm going to give you a free little module of work and it also will just expose you right into the skill aspect of what I'm teaching, is go to So all smashed together as they do and there is a quiz there and it'll take you less than five minutes and you're just going to rank numerically a bunch of statements and then I am going to see your quiz. I'm going to look at it and I'm going to enter it into a system where depending on what anger or what, excuse me, emotion you need to … Donnie B.: She’s expecting me to take it, guys. So that's why. Rachel K.: Depending on what emotion is dominant in your quiz, I'm going to send you a little kit that will give you the episode that correlates to that emotion and some of those aren't even live yet. I have no idea, Donnie when you're going to put this up. But it's actually like, you're getting ahead of what’s available currently on iTunes. So you'll get that episode. You'll get a list of strategies to try and a video of me kind of in my apartment trying to bring all of that to life. So you'll get that for free and it'll just have you dive in and check it out for yourself. And then also, I make it really affordable. If you want all of the emotions. The truth is, to really be well, we do need to be able to move through all the feelings. So there's a way where you can get that also. And then the way to just hear the Shit Show is to go to, if it's on iTunes, wherever it is, it's Now, the ‘i’ in shit has turned into an asterisk because in the end, you know, I had to. iTunes won, basically. Facebook, you can’t sponsor any ads on here. And I was like, “Fuck you. Then I won't sponsor ads. I'm not changing my shit.” Even with the asterisk, they don't care. But iTunes, if iTunes says no, I don't have a problem. Donnie B.: They’re the 500-pound gorilla in the room. They shut my show down for six days because I had badass in a couple of the titles. So they’re … I’ll leave it to that. They suck when it comes to that kind of stuff. Get to the freaking times that we're in now. Hide my show behind another firewall that the kids can't see. I'm fine with that because the people who need to hear it will come find it. Rachel K.: So just anywhere you find podcasts, it's there. And I do recommend you go in order. That's why it's cool that I'm giving you the streamlined approach to the skills because people are busy and they might not have time and I want you to be able to start. Donnie B.: How long are your episodes? Rachel K.: They're pretty long. A lot of them are right around 90 or an hour. A few of them are around 90 minutes. Actually, all of the specific emotion episodes have 30 minutes of me doing unscripted therapy with someone that I just met and also, if people want to get involved, I'd love you, in addition to sending me your gross hilarious poop story, if you want to be a guest on my show or if you want to do therapy with me that we put online … Donnie B.: I’ll tuck it in. I'll do that. I'll do that. Rachel K.: I know. I have that thought. That would be fun to do with you. Donnie B.: Yeah. All day long. Rachel K.: You can do that. And also, you can send in questions. Donnie B.: Awesome. Awesome. Rachel K.: Healing Feeling Shit Show and Donnie B.: Beautiful. Beautiful. So guys, make sure you crash the system on that. I mean, she's doing some really cool things and taking on just in a really, really cool approach. Well Miss Rachel, we're stacked up against it. But here is how I finish every freaking show and I stump some people on. So stand by. Rachel K.: Oh, good. Donnie B.: If you’re going to leave the champions who listen to this show, people from, I think at this point, we’re at 79 countries all over the world. I don't know what else countries would be but 79 countries. Rachel K.: Or planets. Donnie B.: Yeah, right? Probably at this point. But, that are all going through their journey, on their mission, on their path, wherever they're going. If you were going to leave them with a quote, a saying, a phrase, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey especially if they're stacked up against it and stopped up, you're welcome for that. What would be that quote or phrase you would say, “Remember this,”? Rachel K.: Yeah. There's so many that are coming to mind. But, “What is in the way is the way.” So what you think is holding you back, what you think makes you not enough, you need to embrace that, turn toward that, learn how to love that and it will open up the way for you into success, into self-love, into self-worth, which I think is the fucking bee's knees. Yeah. And if you don’t feel your shit, you’re full of shit. Just as a side note. I know you didn't say I could have two but if you don't feel your shit, you’re full of it. So don't do it like that. You can do better. Donnie B.: That's so awesome. Rachel, thank you so much for doing this, girl. I appreciate the hell out of it. Rachel K.: Really fun. Donnie B.: Awesome. Awesome. [Music] Donnie B.: Holy cow, guys. That was some raw shit. I got to tell you, I love … I mean, I've even gone back and listened to that episode and love her energy and vibe. Rachel really brings it every time I talk to her and I really enjoy that. Hey, you know, if you haven't come and join the Success Champions group on Facebook, you really need to dive in there. We’ve instituted this really, really cool thing that is just a blast and we're having a lot of fun with it. So we're calling it The Champions Happy Hour and every Friday at 4:00 PM Central, I'm bringing in some of my past guests and friends of the show and just some other badasses and we're talking business, life, how to get out of your own damn way and it's all done through Facebook Live. So there's no editing. There's no shortcuts or anything else. So come hang out with us in Success Champions. Go to Facebook, go type in the word, Success Champions, click on groups and you will find the page and then get ready for all kinds of fun content. And on Friday Live, bring your favorite cocktail and hang out with us as we just talked with some of the biggest badasses in the world about, how do you go for it? How do you get out of your own way? And how do you really go big and loud? And then if you'll do me a favor guys, if you'll share this episode with one person, that would mean the world to me. Leave a review. Leave a comment and I love hearing from you guys. If I can ever be of help, shoot me an email at Hope to see you in Success Champions on Facebook. Keep kicking ass, guys. Go get that shit out, would you?
Donnie B.: It's really, really fun when you get somebody on the show that has done some really cool things in their life. And when I'm talking to Nancy, I got to tell you, I love her humor. I love her wit. You can tell she's been in the acting scene and working in that customer service world for years. And I just love her spirit and energy, man. So as we dive into this week's episode, I want you to really listen because she dropped some real gems on really, how to be a great person, but it's all under the guise of customer service. I really enjoyed this one. And as always, man, this show is brought to you by Point Blank Safety Services. And I got to tell you, as I continue on and learn more about their company, their business, I spend time with Michael and Stacey over there. I'm just really honored that they are supporting this show for as long as they have and the amount of love they've given us. They are really doing a lot to change the game in Texas. We all know there's a ridiculous amount of construction going on, on a regular basis out here. Freeways are getting shut down, lane changes and everything else. And as those workers are out there, there's frustrations on both sides of the table of, the workers are frustrated because the cars are not slowing down. The drivers are frustrated because the workers are there. Somebody’s got to keep both sides of those safe and Stacey and Michael with Point Blank Safety Services, their company, their officers, their off-duty officers do amazing things keeping everybody safe on there. So do me the favor, guys. Go visit their website at Send them a message. Follow them on social media and say, hi and let them know that you heard it on Success Champions. It would mean the world to me. [Music] Donnie B.: All right, guys. This is going to be a killer episode. I'm so stoked and excited about this one. I'm bringing on Nancy Friedman, man and she has got just an awesome and amazing story. So sit back and enjoy this one. But I'm Donnie. This is Donnie’s Success Champions. Ms. Nancy, welcome to the show, my dear. Nancy F.: I am here and I am excited and I am glad that we got together. Thank you for the opportunity, my friend. Donnie B.: Absolutely. Absolutely. So tell us who the heck you are. Nancy F.: Well, I'm Nancy Friedman, the world's only Telephone Doctor. But I didn't just jump in and be that. So the little background story is a fun one and a good one. And I don't know how far you want me to go. But the bottom line is, I was born in Chicago, Illinois. You are not entitled to the year but I was born there, raised there and did a nice stint there. Married my husband and while he was working, he and my brother got together and said, “We're going to buy a radio station in San Diego.” Well, that sounded like a good idea at the time. And we moved to San Diego and when I got there, Donnie, I was a young bride with a 6-month old baby, didn't know a soul in San Diego. It was a navy town then and very cliquish, if you will. I don't need to tell you. You've been a marine. They stick with their own. So the bottom line is, I got, not clinically depressed, but it was like, I want to go home. I don't like this. How can you not like San Diego? So I thought I was nuts. My husband bought me a book that changed my life and it’s by Dale Carnegie, ‘How to Stop Worrying and Start Living’. And the book is, you can pick any page and start it. You don't have to read it from front to back. So the bottom line is, I opened a page and the chapter was, ‘What is the worst thing that can happen?’ Well, that’s a challenging question to ask somebody. What is the worst thing that can happen? Well, the worst thing that can happen in his eyes and mine too was death. That's the worst thing that can happen. Well, I'm not going to die from being in San Diego. A lot of people lived there and they had fun. So I said, “Okay. I can deal with. What's the next worst thing?” I went through the steps myself and I thought, “Okay.” And shortly after he got me the book, I happened to see a little tiny one-inch ad in the newspaper and it said, ‘Midway Theater for Adults’. What the heck is that? Well, it was a high school who at night, turned theater classes into adult theater. And I said, “Okay, I'll go.” He said, “Why don't you go? You'll meet some people. You’ll meet nerds in this theater, weirdos.” “Okay, I’ll go.” So I went and the first night I was there, they did an improv. Here's your subject and go up on stage and do a little, a minute or two improv. Well, as I get up on the stage, there was enormous laughter. Maybe 35, 40 people in the room. And every comedian will tell you, the minute you hear laughter on the stage, you are addicted. It’s worse than any, yeah. It's worse than any drug. Donnie B.: Podcasters were the same way. Just so you know. Nancy F.: By the way, you cannot see me, but I can see you and your beautiful blue eyes. Donnie B.: Oh, thanks, honey. I appreciate that. I call them my baby blues. They’re my moneymakers. Nancy F.: Yeah, of course. I have them too but you can't see me. Anyway, bottom line, I was addicted and I went through that and we did a couple of shows for the Midway Theater School and then somebody told me, “Well, you know, there's a theater here in San Diego called the Old Globe Theater. Why don't you try out for that?” Well, it was not a professional theater but it was high-tech, high-fun and very, very popular. Anyway, I got the part in San Diego and lo and behold, at the end of the year, they have their awards ceremony and little old Nancy Friedman won the old Globe Atlas Award for Best Comedic Actress. Charlton Heston had presented it to me. So it didn't go to my head. It didn't go to my head. Very little goes to my head as my husband will tell you. But very little egotistically goes to my head. But anyway, I knew I had something. Some people draw. Some people played bridge. Some people played tennis. I played theater and it really filled a niche for me. So when we moved from San Diego from owning that radio station which I also helped run with my husband, the sales and service department, we moved. He bought another radio station with my brother in St. Louis and we moved to St. Louis. And by this time, I was real good at the office helping him set up the sales and service department. And in St. Louis, they had a theater, professional theater. So I had to join Equity. And the bottom line there was my first show in St. Louis was with Gig Young. So I am a professional actress and I've appeared with Gig Young, Dan Dailey, Cesar Romero, Forrest Tucker, Don DeFore, Virginia, the list goes on, because they brought in, they're all dead now, so I can say this, B-actors who were like not through with Hollywood but they didn't have good parts for them. So theaters across the country would bring in those good actors, some of them great actors and put them in a theater and support them with the local talent, if you will. And that's what I did for many, many years throughout the season. You'd have a six, eight-week run and two weeks of rehearsal. So if you did four or five a year, you had a nice healthy life. And I was working and I was raising two kids but I was a very happy camper. So my husband started a company called Weatherline and that was the largest private provider of weather information by phone in the United States. We had over a hundred cities where we installed weather information machinery. We worked with radio stations to do the updating and we sold the sponsorships. I won't say it's a confusing business but nobody really understood it. We always got, “Oh, okay. Well, that's nice.” Nobody understood what we were doing. But having owned a couple of radio stations, it was just in his blood. So bottom line, that was very successful and he brought me in to work with the advertisers and keep them on the Weatherline system. So I became the one-woman renewal department, if you will. And my job was to make sure we never lost a client. Never lose a client was our motto. And so we had the highest retention of clients that Lord, I've ever heard of. Well, not ever heard of, but it was pretty high. 70%, 80% people stayed with us. Why did they stay with us? Because of how they were treated by me. I mean, the sales people go out and they sell and then what happens afterwards is up in the air sometimes. So we created this customer service department for just them and we kept them year after year after year and some of them stayed with us for 30 years. 30, 35 years. So that's an attest to, A, how good we were. Donnie B.: Well, you’re either good on the phone or just really good-looking and charming. It's one of the two. Nancy F.: Well, thank God I'm both. Anyway, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. But bottom line, I had a knack and it is a knack. Not everybody can talk to strangers about and I don't want to say nothing but about things they like and the ability to pop on a phone call and make sure we've asked them for time to talk and to set up those things. We didn't have email when we started at Weatherline. So it was, you did pick up a phone and you were an interruption and you still are an interruption when you’d call somebody. But we didn't, there was no email that say, “Can you talk Thursday at three?” There was no Outlook invite. There was nothing like that. Are you thinking I'm old now? Donnie B.: No, honey. I grew up in the sales game, okay? And I literally grew up in the kicking in doors and cold calling. Nancy F.: Tell me. I love that. Tell me what happened. Let me interview you. Donnie B.: Well, but here's what's interesting about this is, I love the fact that you said not anybody can just pick up the phone and get into the small talk stuff because you're 100% right. And I usually dive into the more technical stuff on the backend of this but we're going because I just love your energy. But most times, when people get on a phone, they're so consumed with how that person on the other end is going to think about them. Are they going to like me? Are they going to embrace what I'm thinking? Are they going to embrace what I'm saying? That they stumble over their words and next thing you know, they become that cheesy salesperson versus just going in and have the conversation. So I love this vibe. I love your approach. This is really, really good. Nancy F.: You're right. It isn't for everybody. And which brings me to a tip that is going to come from left field, Donnie and I apologize. But so many people hire, sometimes, we hire people because they're breathing and that's not healthy. That's just not healthy. As owners and managers, we’re desperate. So my first tip to owners and managers and I'm going off the reservation here for a moment, I apologize. But my first, I love this show and I can go where I want because I'm so ADD. I’ll come back. Okay. Donnie B.: I got you. Nancy F.: My first tip for owners and managers is, have your first interview with somebody on the telephone and all you need to do is say, “Donnie, tell me about yourself.” Well, the first question, if they ask you, “What would you like to know?” That's a loser question. That's a loser question. So if somebody says … as I said, tell me about yourself. How much clearer could I be? So the bottom line is, they don't interview people on the phone. They think that face-to-face is first. No. Face-to-face is second. Especially if you're going to be on the phone. Especially if it's for a phone operation, so to speak. Donnie B.: Nancy, here's what I love about this. For guests coming on my shows, now, I reached out to you because I really wanted to tell your story and be a part of that journey. But for most people, and I get a lot of people that reach out to come on the show, my first question is always, tell me your story. I don't even half the time care what their story is. It's all about how they handle themselves in that response. Nancy F.: Absolutely. Absolutely. And when you interview, you can hear their poor language or their good language. You can hear if they have a smile on their voice. I mean, you get everything you need from a phone interview and people miss that. A very short story. I was pulled in to do a 10-city tour a few years ago. Well, many years ago with one of the largest telecommunications in the country. I'll leave their names out but you can guess who it was. Bottom line, on one of the call centers, I heard some not-so-good calls. And I said, “Tell me about your interviewing process. Tell me how you hire.” And she said, “Well, we do this test and we do that test and we do the disc. We do all that. We do this and the typing and the math.” And I said, “Where's the phone interview?” And deer in the headlights, she said, “What do you mean phone interview? They’re on the phone.” “Yeah, but did you hear their voice before you hired them?” And they hadn't, Donnie. They hadn't heard their voice. So they were getting, “Uh, can I, uh, uh, help, help, help you? Uh, I seen where … I seen,” and the poor language. I don't know that I changed the culture but man, I don't understand how you cannot do that interview. Donnie B.: Well, it's even more important to people how to get into that game now because think about it, is less and less people are talking on phones. You got your social, you got your texting, your private messaging, direct messaging, all of this stuff that they often forget that the younger generations that are being grown up, they don't talk on phones. It's all their thumb work. Nancy F.: Right. Donnie B.: Go ahead. Nancy F.: I'm sorry. Somebody once said to me a few years ago, “Is Telephone Doctor name, is it outdated?” And I said just the other day to somebody, “Show me a company that doesn't have a phone. Show me a person that doesn't have a phone.” And they couldn't. So the phone has not gone away. It's going to be here maybe in a different shape or size or whatever. But it's going to be around for a long time. And I don't care if you use two cans and a string. The bottom line to working on the phone is the smile and there’s the tone of voice. And you know, you talk about millennials, we train a lot of them in the programs. They are sponges, Donnie. They are sponges. They don't want to be stupid. They don't want to be not smart. They want to know things. So when I do a program, I will say that the seasoned people, older than I am, come up and say, “Wow. That was good stuff. I really needed that refresher.” And then the millennials, the 25 to 35 come in and say, “No, I didn't know about that.” Well, of course, I don't want to put their nose in it, but it's not taught in our schools. It's not taught in colleges. It’s not taught in high school. It's not taught in grade school. So Mom and Dad sometimes have to pick up or Nancy Friedman picks up. Donnie B.: Right, right, right. This is interesting because I love what you're doing and it is such a needed talent and skill that I for one believe sales should be taught in school anyways because we need to learn that skillset because if the economy tanks and everything else, you can always find a sales job. Nancy F.: Absolutely. Donnie B.: So it's interesting. How much do you think your acting and that career prepared you for what you're doing now Nancy F.: 100%. 100% without even thinking about it. One of the other questions I ask in an interview is, have you ever had any theater experience? I don't care if it was band or cheerleading or something where you had to entertain people somehow, somewhere, someplace and those that have it, get it. I mean, they get that you're on for two hours or you’re on for the shit length of the show. If you've never done that, there's a slight misstep in, “Oh, I have to smile? Oh, really? But they can't see me.” Yes, they can. They mentally see you. If I did this interview without a smile on my face, you would not be a happy camper. Donnie B.: True. True. Nancy F.: So I'm sitting here like an idiot. No, not like an idiot. Donnie B.: I got that recorded, Nancy. Nancy F.: That's all right. That's all right. But we walked on the airports with a little smile on our face. I'm slightly depressed when I walk through the airports when I see the frowns on people. It's like, “Good Lord, you're healthy. You're walking. You're going someplace. Put a little scat grin on your face.” I don't know. Donnie B.: Absolutely. That's a really cool insider tip because when I was training sales companies across the US, I would constantly tell them, “Hire the athletes for sales role because you want somebody that can compete and understands what it takes to win a game.” And I love the fact that you just threw out there for your phone workers, maybe your inside reps, those type of people you're putting out there. Go find somebody who has the acting skills. And they understand how to entertain a room. That's brilliant because really, I'd never put that out there. Nancy F.: Well, thank you. But it doesn't have to be theater. It doesn't have to be a stage. It could be like a, say, chorus. It could be cheerleading. Watch those young girls on that cheerleading field with those smiles. I mean, some of them got a bad foot. Some of them don't feel like it. Somebody just broke up with their boyfriend. But they're not allowed to show it. Donnie B.: Right, right, right. No, that's really, really, really great advice. Nancy F.: Well, we got a lot of good tips and it's all common sense and I'm very proud of Telephone Doctor’s content. I would put it up against anybody's. Donnie B.: So how did it start? I mean, you go from an actor that's won awards, hung out with some really, really cool names that I actually recognize and well, you know, I'm not a spring chicken anymore. I tell everybody that I'm not getting older. I'm getting seasoned. Nancy F.: That’s my word. Yeah. We’re seasoned. Okay, good. Well … Donnie B.: This isn't gray in my beard. It's chrome, okay? Nancy F.: It’s classy. Don't worry about it. It’s very classy. Sexy. Donnie B.: Thank you. Nancy F.: Oh, you wanted the sexy voice. All right. Let me give you the sexy voice. Donnie B.: Nancy, you and I are going to become best friends. Nancy F.: I hope so. I would love this. Bottom line, let me get to how I became the Telephone Doctor. I was saving accounts at my husband's business and one day, I had to call the insurance agent and it wasn't a very good call. They were not … even on the 1 to 10, they weren’t a 3. That’s how I grade people. So I called back my agent and I said, “Cancel all my policies.” He said, “What happened? I said, “Your people stink. They're so unfriendly. They're unhelpful. They don't smile. They one-word answer. I don't need to be treated like that.” He said, “Oh my gosh.” He says, “When I call your office, I'm treated like a king and I'm not even a customer.” So he got it right away and he said, “Would you come to my office and train my people?” And I said, “All right.” So I went to his office out of love and like I say, the last time I did it out of love, but I went to his office and they had 14, 15, 16 people sitting there drinking coffee and I had a cup of coffee. And finally, I stood up. Michael said, “Okay. Nancy's going to talk with you.” So I stood up and I said, “Well, at our office we say please.” And one woman hit the other and said, “Write that down. That's a good one.” Donnie B.: Oh, Lord. Nancy F.: And I said, “Thank you.” And I said, “Say, you're welcome. Say, have a nice day. Say, oh, wow once in a while.” Something that I know you're on the line and I don't think I spoke 15 minutes, started to walk out the door. The President of the insurance agency stopped me and said, “Thank you very much, Nancy. We really learned some new things.” Man, I came home, had a drink with my husband. I said, “Dick, let me tell you what happened today.” So I told him all about what happened. I said, “I was walking out the door and the President of the insurance agency said, ‘Thank you. We really learned some new things.’ Dick, things that you and I do like breathing in and breathing out, I don't understand.” And Dick looked me right in the eye and said, “Nancy, don't ever be surprised. No one has ever shown them.” Well, I mentioned this same story that I cared to share here with you today to the then general manager of a newspaper in Davenport, Iowa, the Quad-City Times and he was one of our Weatherline clients and he heard what I was doing. He said, “I want you to come up and train my people.” I said, “Well, great. How many do you have?” He said, “300.” I looked at my husband. I said, “Now, look what you got me into.” Donnie B.: Of course because now, it’s his fault. Nancy F.: Yeah, right. Of course. Thank you. That was the typing mistakes on my email if you'd noticed, I put that. But anyway, I went up and the first program was done for the classified department, the sales department because they weren't doing so well. And I did my program and at the end of the program, the editor of the Quad-City Times came up. He said, “You know what, you're very good as you're sure of all the cures.” And he thought for a moment and he snapped his fingers. He said, “I'm going to call you the Doctor. I'm going to call you the Telephone Doctor.” And I came running home to Dick. I said, “Dick, some guy called me the Telephone Doctor. What should we do?” He said, “Let's go get it registered. We're going to have some fun and fun we’ve been having.” Donnie B.: I like Dick. He’s a good dude. Nancy F.: He's a wordsmith. Thank you. Dick is another story. He's the one with the tendon operation. Anyway, about him. He just had an emergency Achilles tendon operation. That's a whole other interview. Okay. Caregiving. Not in my DNA. All right. So bottom line … Donnie B.: You’re the actor. So it makes sense. Nancy F.: Oh, last two weeks. Anyway, no. He's been a good patient. Donnie B.: That’s awesome. Nancy F.: The bottom line is, we got it registered and I did a few little programs around town. Word gets around. We were competing when we started 30 years ago, Donnie. Computers were just coming out. So if I would call up and say, “I’m Nancy Friedman. We've got some tips on how you can treat your customers.” “Oh, no. We just bought a computer.” Well, that's important because there's nobody involved with that except you and your keyboard. So it was a tough row at first but newspapers heard about what I did at the Quad-City Times. And if you're familiar with newspapers at that time, it was a snowball effect. I did about eight or ten, I think it was even more than that, newspapers across the country because they were desperate. You've been in sales. You know how desperate to reach out when somebody can help you. So we've helped a lot of companies. From there, it's been a wonderful ride. It's a small family-owned business. Mother, father, son and daughter. 23 employees in a 10,000-square foot building in St. Louis, Missouri and we are an international customer service training company now. So we help companies communicate better with their customers. Donnie B.: So let’s go back to that first time you’re standing in front of the insurance company. You walk into a room … I'm going to make the assumption that you are somewhat unprepared because you didn't really know what the heck you were going to talk to them about other than that they should be nicer on the phone. Was that an improv moment for you? Nancy F.: You’re very observant. You're very observant because it was like the next day from the phone call to come to my office was the next day and right. There were no notes involved. So Nancy spoke from her heart and when you have a passion about something, you can talk 45 minutes, an hour, you can talk all day about something you know and love. Ask me about NASA, ask me about some other things and it's, “Goodbye. Have a nice day.” But if you want to talk about communication, sales and customer service, we can go deep. We can go deep. And that's what happened. We decided, as a company, we want to go deep. We don't want to be all things to all people. That's how you spread yourself too thin in our opinion. We're not a department store. We're a boutique. Donnie B.: Right. Nancy F.: Big difference. Donnie B.: And I hope people heard that. Because there's a lot of people that are trying to get on stages and they're trying to build platforms and everything else and they're struggling to come up with content and gosh, it comes down to, speak to what you know, speak to what you love and it'll just come. I mean, I'm sure you're the same way, Nancy. You go in front of a room and somebody is just going to put you on a spot and you're going to be able to go without any pretext. And I know I do the same thing when I speak all over the world as well. And it's just funny to me, the people that come up to me and they’re like, “How do you do that?” I'm like, “Do what?” Nancy F.: It's in your DNA. It’s in your DNA. What I'm not able to do and you and I both know people who do this. A friend of mine who speaks. He's like, “I got to ask for a topic and I don't remember what it was. I know nothing about it but I'll Google it and I'll be able to do a program.” And I'm thinking to myself, I could never do that. I could never cheat client. And that's what I call it. If you're not an expert, we can all Google it and we can all look at something but it doesn't come from the heart. It just doesn't come from the heart. You've heard and seen speakers talk about things that they know nothing about. Take the actors on TV when they go to an interview. Jimmy Fallon and whatever else. Who else is on TV? I don't stay up that late. Donnie B.: Me neither. Nancy F.: They talk about things that they shouldn't be talking about and you get a lot of ‘ums’, you get a lot of, ‘I got to think about this’. If they're not an expert in it, let them talk about acting. That's what they know. Donnie B.: No, I absolutely agree with you. It's interesting because there's so many people that want to be and do and accomplish something greater and they are doing these big things but not doing them well because they're not going back to their roots and doing what they know. I mean, that first time you stood in front of that group and spoke, I mean, I'm sure you did well but I can almost guarantee that when you walked away, you immediately went, “I could've done this better.” Nancy F.: Oh, absolutely. Yes. Yes. Or I forgot to tell them or something. So I speak without notes. I don't use PowerPoint and it just … it does … Donnie B.: Oh, I love you even more. Thank you. Nancy F.: I don't. Well, I'm a believer that you cannot do two things well at once. And the keyword there is well. A woman came up to me one time. She goes, “I multitask. I can do two things.” I said, “You missed the whole point, honey. You cannot do two things well at once.” We can all do two things. But one of them is going to … if I were right now typing emails on the side and doing an interview, one thing would suffer. The interview or the emails. So concentration and doing one thing at a time when it's important to you is critical in my opinion. Donnie B.: Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So now, you're this world-class, world-famous Telephone Doctor which is just a brilliant name. Because I love it when a name readily tells you what you're about to get into. Nancy F.: You don't think it's outdated, do you? Donnie B.: No. Here's the thing, is I think technology eventually is going to get to a point where it's just going to become voice. Nancy F.: Voice Doctor. Oh, that’s good. The Voice Doctor. Donnie B.: Yeah. And you know, so there's always going to be verbal communication. How that verbal communication happens is going to change. The dynamics are going to change. Like you and I are talking to our computers right now, you know? But there's always going to be verbal interaction between people. Nancy F.: I love that. I love that. Donnie B.: That's where your niche and your world is going to continue to teach and define because it's more and more needed because as we've talked about, the younger generation is coming up which I love because they're so spontaneous. They’re so brilliant. I love the way their minds work but they didn't learn some of the basic skills that your generation, my generation grew up with. I mean, we grew up in the era of, “Yes, Ma'am. No, Ma'am.” We grew up in the eras of, here's how you answer a phone, here's how you be polite and those type of things. Doing what you're doing is teaching the generations that didn't get that kind of stuff. They grew up fast-finger and their thumbs and girl, I think you’re in one hell of a spot. Nancy F.: Thank you. Thank you. Well, it's funny that you say that. I was speaking a couple of months ago and a young gal came up, beautiful gal, 25 years old, folded arms, very defense. Right before a program, she says, “You're not going to tell us how bad we are, are you?” I said, “Why would I do that?” She said, “Well, the last speaker told us how bad the millennials were.” I said, “Sit down. Just take your notes and listen.” Donnie B.: Shut up and listen. Nancy F.: Yeah. If speakers are going to get up there and say, “Hey, you millennials, you got it wrong,” you're never going to make a friend. I mean, these guys are starved for information. Donnie B.: They are. Nancy F.: They don't know everything. They may not want to admit it, but they don't. My friend of mine was trying to work a remote I had down at the condo and he couldn't get it and I said, “How old are you?” He said, “21.” “Give me the remote. I will show you how to work it.” He couldn't work the remote and it wasn't an old-fashioned remote. He just couldn't figure it out. So they don't know everything. Donnie B.: Yeah. And the fun thing with it is and Dr. Stevie Dawn, a really good friend of mine, she's the one who originally told me this idea and I was doing a lot of sales training and I was struggling. Admittedly, I was struggling to teach some of the younger generation how to do sales because I wasn't changing my training process to meet them where they were at. I was ten steps ahead of them and it took me a while to wrap my head around them and what she told me, she's like, “Look, how old were you when you had your first job?” And I said, “Well, working for the family or someone else?” And she said, “Working for somebody else.” And I said, “14.” She goes, “What you got to remember is people coming out of colleges now, this is their first job they've ever had.” Nancy F.: Probably, yeah. Good point. Donnie B.: “This is the first time they’ve ever been employed.” She said, “What was your first real job?” And I said, “I was a busboy at a catfish restaurant.” And she goes, “During that, I’m betting somebody didn't just hand you a bucket and say pick up things. I'm betting somebody walked you around, showed you how to clear a table, how to clean it off and kind of took you step by step.” And I said, “Yeah. That’s pretty much how it worked.” And she goes, “Well, that's what you got to do with the younger generation coming into the companies is you got to kind of take them not by the hand. I don't want to baby them. It's not what I'm trying to say but you've got to show them step by step.” And that clicked for me. Nancy F.: It does. And it does click for them. And she's right. You're right. These are not bad people and the other thing that I discovered all by myself, every generation was a millennial. Donnie B.: Yes. Nancy F.: They just wear a different name. We have all been through that. My mother passed away but she left me with one of the best sayings in the whole wide world. “Nancy, there's very little new. Just new people doing it.” And boy, does that save me from letting my head get too big or my feet off the ground. I mean, we all think we invented stuff but if you do look it up, somebody in 1842 thought of it already. Donnie B.: Yeah. That is the truth. Nancy F.: And it’s just, you can be part of it but those people that think they invented stuff, very frustrating for me. So I just, I go by the motto, “Very little new. Just new people doing it.” So … Donnie B.: That's awesome. That's awesome. So now, you're teaching people all over the world these skills and are teaching them how to have proper phone etiquette and everything else. Do you typically do that through like classroom training or is it keynote style or do you have teams that now go out and help you do all the training? Nancy F.: Well, let me answer the last question first. There's only one person that goes out and does the training and that's me. We do large and small groups but the bottom line here is … I'm sorry. I don't know what that dinging is. If it's my side. Donnie B.: Yeah, you're good. You're good. Nancy F.: Okay. Thank you. I like good. I like good a lot. My style is, my drug of choice is humor. So every program that we do, we'll have laughter, we'll have interaction, it will be engaging. Whether it's a small group or a large group. An answer to your question, it could be keynote, it could be classroom, it could be workshop, it could be anything, it could be webinar, it could be whatever we want. Disseminating the information is simply a tool. As long as you got the right content, it doesn't matter how you do it. So whatever the client needs and you know, Donnie, the United States does not have a monopoly on poor customer service. It is a universal situation. Donnie B.: Yes. Nancy F.: You go all over and they have the same complaints we do from voicemail to sales problems. We went to the UK a couple of years ago. When we walked in, nobody said anything. When we walked out, nobody said anything. And finally, we walked out of one store and we said, “We're welcome!” And we walked out. Donnie B.: We're welcome. Nancy F.: We’re welcome. Donnie B.: I got to be honest. My wife gets on me for this one. You’re at a store. You’re at somewhere. And I was brought up that if you're in somebody's way, you say, “Oh, I'm sorry. Excuse me.” And then you move out of the way. Nancy F.: Right. Donnie B.: And my wife gets on me all the time because I'll walk up, somebody will kind of give me a dirty look, like, who the hell am I? And they'll eventually move out of the way and I will make sure that everybody around me knows that I say, “Oh, no, no, no. Really, you’re welcome.” She's like, “Honey, you've got to quit doing that.” I'm like, “Come on. It's just common courtesy.” Nancy F.: It is. It’s cute. You never know who you're going to offend. You and I have not similar personalities but we're not afraid to say something and sadly, I have open mouth, insert foot. For example, I was at the grocery store the other day and behind me was a gentleman with just as much liquor as he could put in there. Vodka, gin, everything. And I said, “Boy, you're going to have a …” And I thought to myself, “Don't do this, Nancy. Don't do this, Nancy.” But Nancy didn't listen to her. So I said, “Boy, you're going to have a fun time tonight.” He said, “No, Ma'am. I'm a priest. This is going elsewhere.” So he said, “I don't drink.” So he didn't get offended but … Donnie B.: Now, if it was me, I would have immediately gone into full Sherlock Holmes mode and gone, “Okay. Why is a priest buying that much liquor? If it's going elsewhere, my house is right down the road.” Nancy F.: I mean, I just was glad I was ahead of him and left. I didn't need any more conversation with him. But sometimes, you know when you say something, it's not going to come out 100% the way you wanted it. And I felt it wasn't but if somebody buys that much liquor, there's a story behind it. Donnie B.: But that's also one of the tragedies of the time is, I am a smart aleck by nature. I'm loud. And when I'm in a room, everybody knows I'm there. If you don't know I’m there, give it five seconds. You're going to know I’m there. And it's frustrating to watch how you can't say anything anymore. Nancy F.: Oh, Donnie, if you're still out speaking, you know that as I go around the room, I'll sit on a lap, take a picture and post it. And I've been having a lot of time for years with that. And somebody came to me the other day and said, I call it, “Here, I'm having a fun lap dance with Donnie Smith. Having a fun a lap dance at this program.” And they said, “It's not politically correct.” I said, “You're kidding me. You're kidding me.” He said, “No. Call it something else.” Well, what I said I'd call it was not politically correct either but you can't say lap dance on social media now? No, you can't say lap dance on social media now. So people like you and me and I or whatever the right word is, we’re sometimes stymied because we got good stuff to share that is not going to hurt anybody. Donnie B.: Yeah. And you know, it's getting to the point to where you're not going to be able to say anything. It’s because people are becoming too, I don’t know if sensitive is the right word and I'm going to catch hell for this, I'm sure. But you know, suck it up. Get over it. Nancy F.: Thank you. That's a whole other program, isn't it? I mean … Donnie B.: It is. It really is. Nancy F.: It's what you can and what you can’t say and somebody should make a list because I'm sure it would be laughable. But anyway, I'm enjoying myself. You are a wonderful interviewer and it makes me feel quite at home. You've got quite a story. And of course, my inquisitive nature and I would love to hear more about the Marines. Thank you for serving, number one. Donnie B.: My honor. My honor. Nancy F.: Thank you. So go ahead. You've got good questions. What do you need to know? Now, yes. I'm the world's only Telephone Doctor. Donnie B.: No, I got you. I got you. So you're bringing humor, you’re bringing comedy into the presentations which is not easy for most people. I think I've seen a lot of people try and bring humor and comedy into their speeches and it's forced. Nancy F.: It's a dud. Donnie B.: Yeah, yeah, yeah. So how do you … I mean, I know it's coming from your acting and stuff but how do you intertwine it in? Is it the improv coming out in you? Or is we’d done it so many times over the years, it's a natural flow process? Nancy F.: Nobody's really asked me that. I believe that people that have ability to make people laugh, that's their gene. That's their way of talking to people. You can do it in writing in a blog. You can do it on face-to-face. You can do it on the telephone. It's just something that you enjoy doing and you and I know timing is everything. Donnie B.: Yes. Nancy F.: Timing is everything. So no, do I have a few jokes? Yeah. But I mean, that's not what I do. I don't stand up there and tell jokes. It can be and everybody knows this. From a classroom teacher and teaching Algebra to a huge speaker. I've heard speakers and you have too that get paid a heck of a lot more than I do standing on stage and they don't have it. They don't have the timing. They don't have the ware. They don't have the confidence. So I don't have the answer to that. But you know, you take somebody like Jerry Seinfeld. He's a clean comic. Sometimes, it’s just the look. Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. It's interesting. And I'm asking because this is what works for me a lot of times is, the more I end up laughing at myself over something that may have just come out of my mouth, I think it entices the crowd to laugh along with you. Nancy F.: Yeah. Self-deprecation has always been and always will be and it started from Jack Benny. It started a hundred years ago, self-deprecation but it shouldn't get to be too personal. That's what some people like to do. They like to tell their life story and everything. I'm making a lot of fun with my husband on the blog. He's laid up for two weeks with his operation and I said, “The other day, I fed him breakfast and then he wanted lunch. That's a heck of a lot of nerve to want two meals in one day.” But I didn't have to think about that. That just came out. Donnie B.: Right, right, right, right. And I think that's some of the best humor though, is the one that's relatable in real life and makes sense. That's funny. Nancy F.: I believe we both feel the same way on that one. Donnie B.: Yeah. So where do you think this journey is going to take you, hon? You've had one hell of a life of acting to the telephone queen and all of this, where is this all going to take you? Nancy F.: Well, you know who knows that and He’s the only one that does. Some people say, “Nancy, when are you going to retire?” And my answer without missing a beat is, “When they stop asking me.” That's my signal. So right now, I've got a few programs booked into 2020. Has it slowed down? Yes. But that's sort of by choice as well as anything else because there's new people coming around. There was a time when I was doing commercials and I couldn't find the time of day because I was doing so many commercials. But then the wheel turns and the new voice comes along or a new person comes along. So we all get our turn and if you overstay your visit, what do they say? It’s like fish. It starts to smell. I've just been blessed. I can't complain. I won't complain. I'm not a complainer. I'm just happy where I am. My son, David is doing a terrific job in pulling Telephone Doctor up where it should be. Not that I didn't but he's going to move it along and if there won't be a Telephone Doctor, I don't know that … I couldn't tell you if there is. There won't be another Telephone Doctor because that's like saying, “Who's going to be the next Kentucky Fried Chicken guy?” Donnie B.: Right. Nancy F.: I mean, there's only one Kentucky Fried Chicken guy and that's his face. So … Donnie B.: Yup. Yup. So Nancy, I tell you, this has been awesome. I love that I got to be a part of your journey and be a part of sharing your story with the champions that listen to this show. Thanks for doing that. Nancy F.: Well, you have been a pleasure and there's obviously so much now. Like you said, I’m thinking, “Oh, why didn't I say that? Why didn't I tell him this?” So I'm right back to square one. Donnie B.: Right. But here's the thing, is everybody's got a story. Everybody's got a journey. And I love the fact that you've been so raw, so real because that always works best when people hear this story and if there's things that were left on the table and unsaid, all the more reason for people to inquire and learn more about what you're doing and everything. So in that vein, how do people get in touch with you? Nancy F.: Well, thank you. I appreciate that. is the website and the office number is in Saint Louis, (314) 291-1012. You always repeat a phone number twice and slowly, Donnie. You never just give a phone number once. Especially on a voicemail or cellphone. (314) Saint Louis. That's another little tip is if you're calling outside, put the city. Not everybody knows every area code in the world. So 314 is Saint Louis, 291-1012 and that's the other thing I tell you is say your phone number in two digits rather than four digits. 10-12 is better than 1-0-1-2 because people will say, “Was it 1-0-2-1? What was it?” 10-12. Donnie B.: I didn't even ask. So I lived for three years in Saint Louis. Nancy F.: Did you? Donnie B.: I did. I lived in the O’Fallon area. Nancy F.: Okay, that's good. Donnie B.: Are you guys close to Downtown? Nancy F.: Bridgeton. We're in Bridgeton, a suburb of St. Louis right off 270. Donnie B.: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nancy F.: What did you do in Saint Louis? Donnie B.: I worked for a company called Medicine Shoppe International. Nancy F.: No kidding. Donnie B.: Yeah, absolutely. Nancy F.: Wow. Did you know Ray Pippen? Donnie B.: Ray Pippen, that name sounds really, really familiar. Nancy F.: We should do lunch one day. Donnie B.: Okay. Nancy F.: You're in Houston, right? Donnie B.: No. I'm in Fort Worth outside of Dallas. Nancy F.: Oh, Fort Worth, Dallas. That's even better. I got a lot of friends there. Okay. Donnie B.: If you’re in town, let me know. I will meet you anywhere you want to meet. Nancy F.: Bless your heart. You are one super-dooper guy. You have your own success story. I do a little mini, itty-bitty podcast. I would be honored to get your story on. Donnie B.: Absolutely. Let's set that up. Well, Nancy, here's how I wrap up every show and I do stump some people. So get ready for this. You're going to need your improv skills. If you were going to leave the champions who listen to this show, entrepreneurs, business-owners, veterans, people from 78 countries now that are tuning into this show, if you were going to leave them with a quote, a saying, a phrase, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey especially if they're stacked up against it and going through it, what would be that quote or phrase you would say, “Remember this,”? Nancy F.: “Don’t forget the guy who brought you to the dance.” Donnie B.: God, I love you. You’re so awesome. Nancy F.: That just means a lot to me because in our lives, there's always somebody that we got to go back and say, “Hey, remember 14 years ago when you told me or helped me?” That person will always remember. It's your success that he was or she was part of it. “Don't ever forget the guy who brought you to the dance.” Donnie B.: Yeah. And in that vein, a mentor of mine said, “Donnie, every once in a while, you need to go on whatever social platform you are on and just thank the people that have helped you on your journey because they're the ones still rooting you on.” Nancy F.: Absolutely. Donnie B.: I just thought that was just great advice and I got to tell you, I did that post, I don’t know, a couple of months back and I got a little teary-eyed just saying thanks to some of the people that have helped me on my journey and saw more than I saw myself especially in the younger years. Nancy F.: Everybody likes to see their name in print. Donnie B.: Absolutely. Nancy F.: Except in their obituary. But everybody … Donnie B.: Or maybe on the post office wall. Nancy F.: Right. But the bottom line is, everybody likes to see their name in print. Everybody. Show me somebody who doesn't want to say or hear, “Thank you. I appreciate what you've been in my life.” So we are on the same wavelength. You get a free lunch coming when I get to Dallas or you come to Saint Louis. You've been wonderful. Thank you. Donnie B.: Thank you, Nancy. I really enjoyed this. Nancy F.: Pleasure. [Music] Donnie B.: Man, thanks for staying with me so long on this episode. It was such a great one. I mean, I love it when we can sit there and laugh and joke all the way through and Nancy was just such a fun blessing on this one. Hey, as you're going through your life, I know a lot of times, as I was on my entrepreneur journey, I kept trying to put myself on an island. I really thought I didn't need help. I didn't need advice. So I kept trying to do everything on my own. Once I realized that you've got to surround yourself with the badasses in life that are going for it because you get that energy and that vibe of others who are rising and getting after it and doing more, you really start upping your game and then it becomes more of learning through osmosis than kind of that forced learning that you see everywhere out there. If that's something you're looking for, you really need to come hang out at Success Champions, our Facebook group. We are dropping a ton of content in there, a lot of learning, some golden nuggets and just a tremendous amount of value. There is daily post, awesome Friday Facebook Lives and it is just the place where badasses hang out and rise. So go to Facebook, type in the words, ‘success champion’ in the search bar, click on Groups. It'll be the first group that pops up. Jump in, come say hello and introduce yourself. We're looking forward to seeing you in there. And then guys, the way this show continues to grow and we continue to bring you the awesome guests that we've been able to bring is from your reviews, your shares, your telling a friend about this. So if this show, this energy brings you any value whatsoever, do me a favor. Leave a rating and review and share it with just one friend and let us know. Send us an email and let us know what this show has done for you. Thanks for always, guys for tuning in. I appreciate you. I love you. Thanks for your support and let's continue rising together. Success Champions Music by Freddy Fri To book Freddy Fri or for more information -- Follow Freddy Fri Motivation for WEEKLY MOTIVATIONAL VIDEOS and other content: Website -- Twitter -- Facebook -- Instagram -- LinkedIn -
Donnie: Alright was this is going to be an amazing episodes we are going to sit down with mike Michalowicz, We didn’t spend whole lot of time on a back story, we just started jumping in a lot of the philosophy of business, entrepreneurism and there wasn’t any flop, it was a pretty cool conversation, I really enjoyed and I know a lot of you guys asked for me to get him on the show you could more of an intimate conversation with him so I think you are really going to enjoy this one. And this show has been for a quite few episodes now, is brought you by point blank safety services, so Stacy and Mike are doing awesome and amazing things for the freeways and highways and everything they do by protecting the constructions workers, drivers and just keeping everybody safe while helping police officers that we know aren’t just paid enough to do what they do and put their lives on the line every day for us, so they are really helping this police officers not only protecting us in the afterhours but protect their families financially by giving them additional jobs and work they can do on a regular basis, these guys are doing just tremendous work. And I love that they have taken their business success and turned it out over to the nonprofit they started which is called … family fund you know that organization is giving scholarships and is helping out the families of fallen officers, you know it’s really cool to see a company remember really where they came from and really giving back to the community as a whole, so do me a favor guys, go follow them on Facebook, go them out on Instagram, check out their website, send them messages and let them know Donnie sent you , you can find almost everything that they are at either at … family fund or point safety in almost all platforms, say hi to them, I couldn’t do this show without them. So I know a lot of you guys have been harassing me about get mike on the show, so I’m bringing on Mike Michalowicz and this going to be a lot of fun, we already smoke and joke about two Polish guys on a podcast, what could be wrong? But this is going to be interesting, I’m Donnie Boivin this is Donnie’s success champions, mike tell us your story brother, welcome to the show! Mike: Donnie thank you for having me, I’m an author, I’m excited to be here and I’m on a missing to eradicated entrepreneur poverty, there are so many elements I struggle with entrepreneurship and some many fellow entrepreneurs struggle with and my goal is to fix that for all of us. Donnie: I love the whole phrase, entrepreneur poverty, because that was my business for a long time you know. Mike: Well you know what it is, Donnie when you started your business I suspect is the same as I started mine and everyone listening, you star your business and his friends who never own a business, they look at you and they who “oh you started a business, you are millionaire and you sit in the beach and all you do is sit and all you do is drink margaritas” There is this perception as that if you are business owner, you are wealthy and you got all the time in the world, the reality is the opposite, so we have no time, we work our ass off, we sacrifice family, we don’t go on vacations anymore and we make no money! As the general population we are struggling financially, so there is this gap and I called entrepreneurial poverty and so my mission is to resolve that, to make us what we are envisioned to be and when you have wealth and you have time you can be of impact you can serve others, I mean we need to do this. Donnie: No I love this, because Ii think there is one more twist on that whole entrepreneurial jump, because if they don’t think are automatically super wealthy the other questions is, what the hell do you actually do for a living? Laugh Donnie: So you are not only battling how much money you are supposedly making and all this freedom that you have, you know my wife, people still ask her, what does Donnie do? And she’s like, he kind of does this podcast, speaking, I don’t know what he does. Mike: Is fine, so when I sold my first company I go proud, I came home to my dad and said “Dad I sold my business” and told them what happened, and he goes “congratulations, so you are gonna have a really job now” and I’m like what? And he’s “yeah because your security and all that” And I love my parents, they have been extraordinary to me, they love me, both of them tho are in trap in their perception of what success is, get a job, stick to a job for entirety of your life, and I think we are surrounded by that perception, spouse, have other perceptions, as entrepreneur the rule is to break the rules, to challenge industries, to bring in our concepts, is new to everyone, Everyone’s is like “what the F are you doing?” is not comprehensible. Donnie: You know is all interesting, I don’t about you, but when I launched my business, it took me a long time to realize that I spent so long as an employed so when I launched a business I kept constantly trying to almost create a job for myself vs a company and I get lost in the business because it was so hard to make that shift, that is why I tell people that entrepreneurs a made not born because you get punched in the face a lot by life to start figuring things out, was that kind of the same thing to you or you just stepped in gold and riches fell from the sky? Laugh Mike: Oh of course that was exactly my journey! I started the business and people where throwing money at me like what= Is this real? NO! No of course, my first business was in computers system, I was a computer guy and I open the door. Donnie: Where’s your pocket protector I don’t see it? Mike: Yeah well yeah, actually Donnie that’s what happens , I made a few phone calls and said I started a business and the money will flow in, I called a few people and they were “Oh congratulations, but I’m already taking care of” I said what? You know! I’m your friend! “No, I’m taking care of” and at the end of the day of and they didn’t mean, the holy crap moment kicked in, I think, in the beginning stages, and actual motivators for us entrepreneurs is fear, the first few years of my business I was terrified and what that terror does is kept me awake, I would wake up at 4 in the morning and get to work whatever it takes and I worked until midnight and repeat the process all over again because I was scared I was desperate as parent, the challenge tho is that fear in certain point becomes detrimental it gives you energy but it also gives you stress and start breaking you down, so illness kicks in or exhaustion so of course is a flip side, you don’t want to live in fear for the entirety of your life, use it as a spark and the over time you need to convert that idea was to confidence and when I started to get a bit of a routine I started to see some results, I said ok I’m gonna trying and repeat on that and I started to focus on what was working and doing more of what was working. Mike: But of course for none of us, you don’t start a business and the money falls in your laps and if it does, you are lottery winner but is actually a curse because then you believe that you don’t need and effort to make this money and so I think when you see on the cover of Ink Magazine “Oh started a business when she was 23 years old and by 24 is a billionaire” In many cases that becomes detrimental because they don’t understand the real journey of an entrepreneur, which is the struggle on the valley to get to the peaks. Donnie: Yeah Jim Ron when back to as far as motivational speakers go, he’s got a great phrase, he said, the first thing you done when you are handed a million dollars is you mentally have become a millionaire because most people will go through that ride and journey to whatever success they get through and is all those lessons that mold and prepared them for that success and I looked on people that entrepreneur is the new multilevel marketing thing because people go into multilevel marketing or neuro marketing and they are like “Oh Imma be a millionaire tomorrow you know, this I the greatest thing, I can sleep whenever I want t and do all that” so they launch businesses thinking along the same lines and I was just guilty of it, when I launched my business I thought the heaven was going to open up and everybody was going to be “Finally Donnie show up, let’s make a lot of money together” not knowing that you have to learn to run a business before you can try to find any sort of success but is a really interesting twist that how much you have to personally evolve along that journey to become a better version for yourself Mike: Holy F and true, and I love it you called the multilevel marketing but I sort of had a sentiment of it about a year ago kicked in, everything I talked about is entrepreneur and entrepreneurship and all the books I write, everything’s is of the entrepreneur, I’m sort started to becoming convinced that the word entrepreneur I a dastardly term now, I think is actually hurting us because entrepreneur has been equated to hustle and grind and I hate those terms, I hate them, so I understand the sentiment tho, I understand hustle and grind means you gotta make effort, like when I started my businesses fear was my motivator, I had to hustle and grind, here is the problem I think people are interpreting that entrepreneurship is perpetual hustle and grind and ten years into you belter be grinding out, in twenty years you better be grinding harder, you gotta carry this business on your back and this is the antithesis of what entrepreneurship is, the true definition is identifying n opportunity, taking a risk to make it happen and the choreographing all these resources, people, technology and even your clients to make that vision a reality, is not doing the work is the choreographing of other resources. I tell people, I was speaking yesterdays at an event and I’m on a room as an entrepreneur and I say yeah I got a challenge for you, when you are at a dinner party and someone ask you got you do, what do you say? And often is “I’m an entrepreneurs that does X” What about we don’t use the word entrepreneur anymore, and not even business owner because is the same thing, what if you call yourself a shareholder in a business, just by changing that label people are “what the what? Donnie: If somebody hit’s me that I would be like “what?” Mike: You know many people are shareholders, I own some stock, I’m in mutual funds, I’m a shareholder, no do I go to these companies and hustle to make successful? No, Do I do anything in the business? No! I do row when it comes to share holder boats and stuff, I do give I some directions as shareholder but I’m not actively participating in it, when we use the label entrepreneur we are saying that we actively work our asses of inside the business and I think we use the term shareholder is shocks ourselves back to reality, that our mission is to vote maybe through some action but. Donnie: Wait you should make a book out of this. Mike: How should I call it? Donnie: I don’t but something along the lines of start calling yourself a shareholder I think because is a cool philosophy. Mike: Is funny, so I may have a title now called “entrepewhore”. Laugh Mike: My publisher I told him and probably nah I don’t think so but maybe, because I think we bastardize ourselves so much we got to change our label if we change our label we change our behavior, is hard to change our behavior first still holding all labels Donnie: I agree with that, I got a funny book too, it’s called, “that’s not how you journal jackass”, so I got one of those too, is an eBook is free. Here is what I do, when I launched my business I had no idea how to call myself, I really didn’t think I was an entrepreneur because I think in true to my opinion, are the craziest sons of a bitch on the face of the earth because you got to be jut that shit crazy nuts to go launch a business, so I was warping my head around that I more this business owner that wanted to create this one business, this one company , this model and take it through, wasn’t it really worried about even a legacy type thing, I just wanted to get to that freedom state and I never been hung up on titles and such and people keep asking me, what do you put on a business card, my name? I didn’t know what to actually put in there, but it evolved, now is says business owner, I think I out CEO in one point but I’m like, Am I a CEO? I got virtual assistants but I don’t really have employees so am I a really a CEO? You know, but you dance with all this thought processes and I really love this whole idea of your shareholder because it really makes you shock your own system to reinvent how you position yourself in the market place. Mike: You know this plays out to employees too, my company is tiny we have 13 employees, I am number 14, we were a micro business and I used to give my colleagues big titles, so I bring someone on and maybe call them the CFO or the office manager and what I found is this that they just like me started believing the title as like who they are, so I had a person who has not even a degree in accounting, she was part time, but she was handling our number so instead of calling her the internal booking person I said we are going to call you the CFO, she went online and found that instead of paying $30.000 that’s what we were paying for that a typical CFO makes a $125.000 so she came back to me literally and said Mike I’m being so freaking underpay I’m being a CFO for this organization I’m not on 125.000 you are ripping me off, and I’m look whoa is just a title and she is no all CFO’s make that and my response was, you can’t got to Ford or GE and say I want to be your CFO and 125, is just a title , didn’t matter she quit, she couldn’t comprehend that, what I realize is that once we star owning a title that becomes who we are, is not just true for us the entrepreneurs, it’s true for all the humanity, if we call ourselves stupid then you become stupid if you say I’m lazy you will become lazy, if you say I’m driven you will become driven, but you have to keep on repeating enough times until you actually believe it to comply with that title otherwise we can’t own that title. So be very judicious in how you use titles is kind of the lesson here. Donnie: Yeah I love it, so Kevin is known to build all the automation to backing up my stuff, he put under the title of my first email campaign “founding badass of success champions “ and I’m like ok I take that, so if you are going yourself a tittle that you want to step into , you know that you want to own, like “founding badass” or something else along those lines, but is interesting I can see that, going through my career there was part that wanted to be a sales manager and I got sales manager and I’m said “fuck, I don’t want to be a sales manager” so there is a lot to be said in those roles, in corporate America structure formality, there’s a lot of responsibility in owning certain titles. Mike: Totally is, I think as a small business owner I aspired, not anymore, I aspired to be the big company, I wanted to have a billion dollar corporation, I wanted to be the CEO of Amazon after Jeff retire I wanted to take over, so I wanted to make my own version so I said if I want be that I have to act as if, that’s a popular term, act as if, so I’m gonna start using those tittle right now, but in the outside world that’s kinda of a shame, if I call myself the CEO and I walk in with my little company, people are like, who many people report to you? But none is only a couple of virtual people, are you really a CEO? O are you an entrepreneur that’s is starting in bootstrapping, so there is a risk there too, theirs is this disconnect and if we package ourselves in the wrong way is dangerous in fact our business … no titles whatsoever, because I do know that I go into a sales situation, sometimes it helps to say that I’m the owner and sometimes it helps to say that I’m the sales guy and being the owner is actually a detriment so I think a title is just a thing of conversation in what e aspire to have but also have to see the outside perception around titles. Donnie: I got other question because I know my followers have been counting on me and I got a lot of people that followed your book First, it was the first book that I read of yours and horrible book by the way. Laugh Mike: Worst book of all the time, hey at least I got a ranking somehow. Donnie: Hey you put profit in there; at least it has to sell one book. Mike: Right! I should have put an F bomb because that seems to be the popular books now, the subtle art of F’ing and I should put like F profit or something. Donnie: You know I’ve been getting a lot of the guys out of the UK right no on the podcast because they are really trying to make a push, they are calling it “the UK invasion” where a lot of the UK speakers are trying to come to the US and is so funny when they come to the podcast because I cursed a lot but those dudes say cursing to a whole other level. Mike: The brits do? Donnie: Oh my god yeah! And I have to forward warning because there a couple words they throw around like candy and I’m like, ok look, this is a US based primary show, I mean it plays in almost a 100 countries now but you got to be careful with the certain couple of words, the F bomb fine, but there are some other words they can’t just bring to the table! But profit first, that and pumpkin plan I think two of the two books of yours that get thrown around the most, at least on my circles, is profit first the first book out of the collection. Mike: So I’ve written 5 books, technically 6 as profit first has been re-released as revising expanded so that counts too, so I wrote this book of toilet paper entrepreneur. Donnie: Oh I remember that! Mike: Kind of a spit on the face of traditional authorship and it was my angry teenage years but it worked, it worked to put me on the map, at least with the publisher and it built a small … The pumpkin plan was my first kind of mainstream book and profit first was the break through. Donnie: That’s the one that really put you on the map, I’m in forward Texas, you know my hometown and I know there is a little workshop group to get together and discussed that book- Mike: Oh that’s awesome I love to hear- Donnie: And the content and everything is out of that, but I’m curious, when you wrote that book was that philosophy for your business? Or something you were attempting to do and you thought it would be the breakthrough for other people if you took on the same thing. Mike: No, it was purely for me, here’s interesting when you hear the resume of an entrepreneur like me I share the highlights, got a company, sold it, the thick of the story for most entrepreneurs is the struggle, the entrepreneur poverty and I have evaporated all the wealth I’d accumulated in some priors businesses that were dealing with debt, I was able to sell them pay off the debt and make money and never really understood profit, I started this 3rd business that … my resume I evaporated everything I had, lost my house over it, lost possessions, did not loss my family, that’s one thing, they stood by me, went through depression for a couple years, from 2008 to 2010, the highest level was called functional depression, you are a drinker and stuff and during that phase I realized that I fundamentally didn’t know the most basic elements of entrepreneurship, profits is one, I realized all the things I was doing was misunderstood, and profit what I realized is that we have been told profit is the bottom line or were you rent, every book I read is profit comes last, and I realized omg I’ve been putting profit last, I didn’t consider it until once a year I looked at profit and I’m like “Dammit, maybe next year”. Donnie: Wait so your business is supposed to profit? I’m confused by that. Laugh Mike: That’s what my old accountant said,” you don’t want to profit, hey congratulations you got nothing left” And I’m like “what?” Donnie: Hey that’s the whole reason I’m in business. Mike: And that made no sense, and entrepreneurship is not a parent child relationship, I call it BS on that, we often say hey I started a business I gave life to it is my child and one day I will nurture it and it will come back and feed me, no, is more of conjoint twins, as the business goes we go and as we go the business goes so if I’m struggling at home my business is going to struggle and if I’m going struggling on business my home is going to struggle, especially the finances, pour finances are in so last step, so I say I really gotta resolve this and I realize that is human nature when something comes last is insignificant , so profit can’t be last, profit has to be first, and the exclusion of course says, make profit to have it, every time you sell take a predetermined percentage of that money, is profit, hide it away in your business, repeat day in and day out and you will assure profitability. Donnie: Is awesome, is one of those book, at least it was for me when I read through it, it just made sense, because same thing, school hard … somebody could tell me the stove is hot three times and still touch twice to just to make sure. Laugh Donnie: But it’s one of those book that when you read you are like “ok that make sense to me why I don’t do it”? So I started to employing some of the principals of the company and the being typical growing up financially foolish, “oh we are hitting a down turn, let’s just pull form the profit pile we have already put into the business” and you are like ok that’s not the whole principles of the book but it was a fun read, what did the success of that book do for your business, you company, what evolved or changed for you? Mike: That’s an interesting question, there’s a couple of realizations, when the book hit, so it came out 4 years ago and 2 years ago I did the re-release and it hit right away, is funny how ego is, I got like omg all this main stages, Seth Golden move here comes Mike “Polish” Michalowicz. Donnie: Because you got that name that belongs in light. Mike: Right, exactly, when you hit the movie theatre and my name is two lines.. Donnie: Or is turned down on the edged Mike: I think the better one is a limp penis of an A, So first my ego is move over Seth Golden, here comes the new main stager and it was like deadly silence, I’m like for how long? The book is so popular and went on for a year like this and my agent who I spoke to me was “get ready for the pumped up fees” nothing, and so I was like I guess it takes more than just a popular book, and yea about a year ago also did … is not move over Seth Golden but is oh you are speaking Seth Godin is coming after you. So that happened, so I realize is when a book hits it takes time for it to start playing out in other facets which is speaking but I think that satisfies my ego and I love public speaking and is a joy. Donnie: Look, nobody writes a book without waiting a little bit of that ego. Mike: I call it C list celebrity. Donnie: So if there’s another alphabet out there I am in that I alphabet. Mike: I put myself in position C , what’s funny that means that if I walk through an airport none knows who I am, except one person every like 3 or 4 airport checks will say “AAAAA” and you get one fan that comes and say “ARE YOU MIE MICHALOWICZ?” actually one person came up and said “ARE YOU TONY HAWK?” And I’m like fuck no, but somebody will say that, and I’ll be like who is this guy, is very weird. Donnie: You next book you just gotta put your picture on the cover that is all. Mike: I will put a Tony Hawk picture, be my strange brother tony hawk. Is this kind of weirs moments when none knows who I am but one person who just happens and lose their shit but everyone else is confused by and everyone’s like why? Who’s this guy? Is he a doctor? Did he save your life? But the bigger thing is I’m on my mission to eradicated entrepreneurial poverty now we get the metrics in place, and I get emails actually I can see we get two since we started the interview, I get emails in 3-4 5-6 hour now of people saying, because I actually ask people to email me on the book, I say emails if you commit to this and they are coming constantly now and I can see I can measure the changes having in business and that is the greatest joy of my life, If I am ever down, for me is just log in the email now and sit there for an hour and everything is ok Mike, you are not looser. Donnie: I wanted people to hear that last phrase you said, everybody’s chasing something you know and I had a lot of coming even this morning with the couple guys I was talking to, they were liken men I could just have this happen to my life, life would be X, and I keep telling life is never X, life is right now, is that time you need to embrace you don’t need some sort of trigger mechanism to be catapulted to the next version of your life and I love the fact that you were humble enough to say that there are days like, this day sucks, this day is horrible and you gotta go look in the email to make sure life is on the same path and track, because is good for people who aren’t even in the first level on the alphabet list, you know you got the C list rockstar status to hear those kind of things because they are a lot of people, I know fans of the show I know were like “holy cow is Mike Michalowicz, he’s got “Profit First” and this and the other and they put you into rockstar status and often times when people put people on that rockstar status they gave them like the super power feed of strength and everything else, like nothing ever happens to them they are always killing it and crushing it and I really appreciate that humility you speak through. Mike: I want to speak that because I think is so important, I believe when we see someone as in a better position we put them on a pedestal, we look up to them, really that is a form of envy and I think is really damaging to ourselves, if you say “oh this guy is better than me, I wish I liked him” but in the same we are saying “I’m less than” and when we see ourselves as less then we want to disassociate, we actually one to pull someone down, as human nature say, well that person is not observing, Michalowicz they guy that probably got myself in driving, you pull in down, pity is just as damaging, pity is where you see yourself here and then there’s this homeless person in the street and “Thank god is not me” that causes a voidance when we move around them, both are form of dissociation an so I think they are very damaging. I don’t think we should ever use the term look up towards someone or look down to someone, I think we should always say look over, as cheesy as it is I’m big on like totems and this things you can see as the infinity circle and is my reminder that all of us are on the exact same path, no one is front or behind each other, we are on different positions of the path and we have just much to learn from someone who’s in the deepest struggles as someone that we perceived is having the greatest successes, all of them are learning experiences and we can call from each other but if we look up or look down we disassociate, I think we need to say Donnie I look over to you I want to learn from you, tell me your secrets, Mike I look over to you, so I say never look up, never look down. Donnie: I love that, I never heard it put in that perspective but you know Richard Branson when he takes people out to his private island , one of the first things he asked to everybody out there is, teach me something and I’ve always been fascinated by it because you got Richard Branson, one of the wealthiest man in the world , one of the most cool CEO, at least that is the brand he puts in the market place, a whole part of that is true but the fact that everybody comes back from me to the island going “Richard Branson asked me to teach him something” and I’m always curious to say, what could you teach as Richard Branson and I think a lot of those pull some random shit out their ass but “I taught Richard Branson” Really? Really!? Mike: I never heard that story I love it and I think it speaks therefore to great intelligence because I bet you, we all got something to teach as much as he teaches us, I don’t think he is more successful than a brand new startup entrepreneur, by certain definitions, the wealthy accumulated, the exposure he’s gotten, I don’t know and this is no judgment, I don’t know what his family is like , I don’t know what is balance is like, I don’t know his contribution to society is like, I don’t know, I also think that we hold people to a higher celebrity ship when they have broader impact as oppose to deep impact and I think most of us are designed for deep impact, Let me use doctor Oz because that example come to mine, Initially he was a cardiovascular surgeon with very deep impact, he saved some people’s life forever, he gave people not 6 more hours of life but 60 more year of life because of his work, he then made a choice to go broad meaning he went on Oprah he started to talking about health and then the guys is Impacting many people, the difference is , Doctor Oz now has a very broad impact but is very shallow you see him on tv shows and eat your vegetables is the lessons, when we worked as a cardiovascular surgeon, now he’s got a very deep impact, I think is a choice and I don’t think is one is better than the other, the shame is we hold up to celebrity ship people with only broad impact, it’s the famous football player, the famous movie start or the famous author like Malcom Gladwell, someone I exalt but never met Malcom Gladwell he just had an impact in some many people and is a name other people recognize I think is equal regardless of what we do of significance and people that are going for deep impact, I guess the lesson here is don’t aspire to be broad, aspire to be who you are call to be, if it’s deep go deep, if it’s broad is broad if it’s something else do it, just speak truly to yourself, they are all significant. Donnie: Man I love that, is such a powerful message because most people in my belief that have hit a celebrity status they are really good at one thing. It comes down to … marketing, I tell people all the time Tony Robbins, one of the biggest motivational speaker of the world and I ask people all the time and they are like omg is Tony Robins, Tony Robins, he’s done amazing things I’m not knocking down for anything but I ask people all the time, What’s Tony’s job? “Oh he is the CEO of the company blah blah blah” and I mean no he is not, and they look at me like “ what do you mean?” He is the face of the company, Garyvee, he is the face of the company and even Mike Michalowicz a C list celebrity is the face of the company, now all that to say is not meaning they are not making decisions, they are not having vision but they are the PR machine their job is to build brand new awareness for the company is the broad stroke. Mike: Is like a band, the front man is the one who everyone knows and is constantly with the groupies but the drummer and the bassist and the keyboardist who’s behind the curtains sometimes they are the ones collectively that need to make the music and I think that is what this organizations have, I think we can positon ourselves as the spokesperson and we will get all the accolades, I think the day I sort believe in that, over. Donnie: Have you seen bohemian rhapsody yet? The movie? Mike: Yeah. Donnie: I love the whole scene where the lead singer of Queen, can’t remember his name. Mike: Freddie Mercury. Donnie: Yes Freddie Mercury, thank you, that he hits all the fame and he goes out of his own and launches his own band and he’s trying to create the music and it all fails and he goes back to his guys and he goes “they did everything I told them to do” and I’m like that’s it! And he goes “They weren’t pushing back they did everything and the problem is I don’t know how to do all the stuff that you are great that” Mike: I think a great leader recognizes that , as a spokes persons you gotta be careful about being inauthentically humble, I see that too, and is like “oh is not me is not me” and declining as is actually discrediting the people who are fans of you, you can’t do that, the same thing you can’t say “this is all me” because you discrediting the people collectively making the product or the service that you do, so is a fine balance, I also think for the rest of the band, like Freddie mercury was the recognize brand and you have Brian May and then two guys like what was their names? That’s an ego check for them too but they are just as important. Donnie: Even if Freddie would have made it in a solo type carrier thing, even then he still has a band behind him. Mike: Even that is true. Donnie: The craziest thing about this whole ride and journey, I know the good things I’m good at, I’m really good on podcast, really good on interviews, well talking on stages but here is the thing I suck at the accounting side of things, I should read you book again “profit first” maybe probably help me out a little bit, but it’s a lot for entrepreneurs, business owners, whatever screwing tittle you want to give yourself, founding badass, is knowing your lane and knowing what you are good at and finding the right people that geek out on the stuff you suck at, is like I’ve got people that do some video editing for me, they freaking love that stuff, I’ve got people that do automated email for me, the gal who does some of the writing for me I call her a magician every Tim, I don’t know how she takes all the crap I put together spins it up and turns it into a master piece, she’s just got gift and a talent for it, but a lot of that is a humbleness for an individual to go “ok this is my lane, this is what I’m good at, how do I get other people to come along for that ride to pick up the slacks for me”. Mike: There is this thing I call the super hero syndrome when we first start a business we have to do everything, you have to do the accounting, you have to do marketing, there is no one else there, you have to, and we start believing wow I can do anything and then we start superheroing in swiping in when there’s problem oh I will fix this I will fix that, and the trap is, when we bring on employees we actually interning with their progress, they start doing something and we swop in we fix it we resolve, disabling them from doing the work themselves, plus we leave often awaken destruction behind us, entrepreneur like myself are known to fix the 5% of the problem, the big part that is noticeable and 95% like we can skip that and there is this shattered destruction behind us that needs to be swooped and cleaned up, I found that I can’t change my ego, I can’t tell “I’m just going to be mister Mike humble and everything is fine” what I did find is that I can rechannel my ego, I used to be very proud of being the superhero, the savior of my business, and now I use the term supervisionary and what that means to me is that I’m clear of where I want to take this organization but I am also as importantly clear about where my individual colleagues want to go with their lives and then my job is ok “how can I help Amy and Mike and Ron and Kelsey to achieve what their vision is personally and have that aligned the business” and I put more significance on that than being a super hero, now my ego is being filled, hey! I’m doing what I meant to do and the interesting is what I revert to being a super hero because I revert to that often and I say oh I fix this and I swipe in again, I realize that is a step down in where I see myself and put negative context around and I’m less likely to do it, before I thought if I had to remove myself form the business and no longer be the super hero I saw that as a step down so when I reverted back to this super hero role I was stepping up and therefore be stuck in it, so the goal is to put more significant to something else and it will naturally pull us put of doing the stuff that is actually not helping our business. Donnie: Yeah that’s a really interesting thought, I don’t have kids but I will say the next statement with that in front me, but often times, people that went through a rougher childhood, maybe didn’t have all the things they wanted as a kid and by the time they have kids they spoil they hell out of them because then have become success and the kids don’t learn the grind and drive that they learned to get and find the success, they hit the workplace and everything else and they will be a bit lost, entrepreneurs do the same thing with the employees, when you are taking care of the problem you are taking out he learning they need to evolve, I ran into this all the time in the creative side of things and Think this is probably the biggest screw that entrepreneur s have is they have a creative vision of their brand, their image, their everything else and when they try to explain to somebody else that other person doesn’t grasp their visions of what those color schemes or whatever else side of the businesses so they are like “Oh I screw up I will do this myself” Mike: I was talking to this guy Scott Alfred, I actually put him in one of my books, he said an entrepreneur would tell to an employee “hey we need to cook food here, get something that will cook food here” and they come back with sticks and rocks to spark a f ire and we are pissed of Like” Don’t you understand? I wanted a Viking?” and the employee is like “Oh I’m so sorry” but the reality is that we didn’t communicate what we wanted, they did the job, In other times they want the Viking and we just wanted sticks and rocks. So I think first of empowering them to make decision but also giving them the freedom that if they don’t comply to our vision to realize that maybe is not their fault, maybe we didn’t communicated well or maybe their vision for that thing is actually better than ours, maybe sticks and rocks is better, is this clinginess we have to what we have a personal vision or mission, how we see things in our mind and we can get upset when people don’t see what we see but we are often to communicating well at all. Donnie: Well and I would also add in there that I think, I want to speak for myself, there were a lot of times along this journey so far that I wanted somebody to swop in and take care of that problem for me, If this was an issue or problem and I wanted to go like “hey this is now yours” and take it completely of my plate and when it comes back and not what I had in vision and I am like “What the hell -” Mike: “ - Are you an idiot” Donnie: Right! Mike: That is called abdication; so many people think you are doing delegation when they are doing abdication. Donnie: Thank you I just added a whole new word today. Mike: Big word, I wanted to drop it, sort of finding where to use it. Laugh Donnie: You have been waiting the whole episode just to use that one. Mike: So I just thought of blurring it out if you didn’t have a question, but abdication is simply point someone and say you take care of this and that is the entire instruction said, and entrepreneurs are notorious for to scenarios, either micromanagement where is total control, here’s step 1, step 1.a - 1.b, or abdication which is the polar opposite and both of them are extremely ineffective, both of them prohibit growth to the organization. Donnie: So how does an individual doesn’t go to the extreme of both of those and actually find that happy medium combination because I’m guilty of both, Because sometimes I’m like “ok I have to tell them what to do or they are not going to figure it out so let’s roll out the power point and walk you through the 500 steps because I need it to get done” but other times I’m just off it, so how do I find the happy medium between those two? Mike: Is simply, you ask the employee, you say listen I want you to achieve certain results in the organization, I know you want to achieve these results, I will give you information, I need to know form you exactly what is enough information to give you direction or when am I going to the field that is too much, where’s actually hurting your creativity, I need the reverse too, if I’m giving just giving you way too little and you can’t achieve the visions that Ii have I need to know them too, is communication, is asking, shockingly we don’t do that often, is that you sit down the first day of the job and say “your job is to tell me when I’m not telling you what you need to know about me” that doesn’t make sense, is constant communication. Our little company we are going to a company retreat to Nashville Tennessee, literally next week and the whole thing is about communication, we are just going to sit there, have a talk, build a report, we have half day to set and learn from each other’s stories, because I know to grease the wheels of this organization is the communication and trust among each other is the ability of my colleague who I write her paycheck out to come back at me and say Mike you’re being an ass about so and so and not feeling threaten or in risk, that will only happen if we have a true connection beyond functional connection, if we have a human connection, I think there is where the answer comes. Donnie: And I love that, I think some people when they go into business they are looking for the pedestal, they are looking for people to look up to them and be that guy and I think that was a hard lessons for me because I know that was a part of my struggle as well is that I wanted people to seem me in a certain way which put me in this weird situation on how I was dealing with vendors and stuff until one of my mentors and coaches said dude, knock it off, but the whole thing is realizing that you are not superman, you are not creating something that hasn’t been created before, you are just repackaging somebody else’s shit up into a better more usable consumable product and format Donnie: I love the fact you are taking your employees in things like retreats and stuff, is that something you did out of the gate with your company or is that something you evolved into. Mike: Well we got it out the gate but is also something you have evolved into, well we had it out the gate but we’ve also evolved into, like going into Nashville is because we’ve had quarter after quarter of profitability that’s grown and we actually set an account called the retreat account so the firs retreat we went to Starbucks because we couldn’t afford lunch, me and my partner we jut said hey let’s just hang out before we get back to go back to work is something evolves, but what I did, recently I did the 4 week vacation, is something I wrote about in one of my book, so if you are going extract yourself from your business for 4 weeks, full disconnect and the business can grow or operate in your absence, you’ve proven the business can likely run into perpetuity in your absence. Donnie: I think that across the world every entrepreneur that just go and take this big gasp because they know way their business functions if they are gone. Mike: Which is a major problem, if you’re carrying the business on your back, and everyone will take the 4 week vacation or over, when get sick or die, so it’s going to happen, we are going to make it delivered so we are prepared for. The funny thing is that I’ve been presenting this concept around the world, when I was in Europe talking about this, we did this, literally yesterday, I flew back form BMW as there yesterday, all august, Germany shuts down and BMW ain’t going out of business, we need to do this for small businesses and so I went for 4 week vacation last year and when I did is not that business was perfect, I put a lot of structure in place to make it happen but there were some problems, one of the problems I realized is internal communication, I’ve become this choke point, when people have questions they come to me a group of come to me to see what’s Mike’s decision but they weren’t making laterally and internally, well I’m absence they were forced to, but there were some uncomfortable things like this person doesn’t really know the other person should approach them? Even if they went only 14 people, so that’s why we are doing this retreat, is all about just building report, we are going to do some cooking sessions together, we are going to have some wine together, we are just going to talk about our lives together, we are going to talk about our struggles and challenges, just to have that human connection, I really believe it greases the wheels. Donnie: Love it, I don’t why this popped to my head but I have strange question for you, what is your actual business? Mike: I don’t freaking know, laugh, I am a full time author, I write books, that’s what I do, so people think you can’t make any money out it, which is total bull, you can become very wealthy as an author if you do it right, the lessons here is I interviewed Tim Ferris on how to be an author a long time ago, he isn’t talking to me now, and he said of course you can make money, before that I was talking to people about being an author, and they said you make no money is horrible, and I said what has been your experience? I’ve never written a book, I don’t know, don’t trust people that haven’t done it, trust people who’ve done it, people that have failed learn why the fail and then learn and then I have talked to people who have been successful and find out the difference and go for the ones who are successful, I have a license: profit first, the pumpkin plan, clockwork, I have a new book coming out, to other companies and they pay me override of revenue so I have a constant revenue stream from all these different companies. Donnie: What do you mean by license, like program? Mike: Yes the program is called run like clockwork that teaches the clockwork system, they pay me a license in fee in front and 15% override … processionals for accountants. Donnie: You have accountants around the world. Mike: Yes over 350 and now and I license this organization but also in the case In that case I took an equity interest but the other two companies I don’t have any equity just the license in fee they pay me. So one of those things as people run their journey, one of the things I had to do was to turn to the people that has done it before , and realize somebody else had cut the trail, go learn from them and get advice from them along the way. Donnie: I gotta tell you man, this has been one hell of a ride I had no Idea about what you and I we were going to get into tonight and actually it has been kind of fun. Mike: Yeah on the recap my head says oh we talk about entreprewhore, you learned a new word abdicated. Donnie: Dude, don’t do the spelling bee on me, if you ask me to spell abdicate. Mike: I don’t know how to spell it I think it starts with an A Donnie: We talked about C level celebrities in there somewhere I am sure. Laugh Donnie: So that’s awesome, but dude I really appreciate the job done here, here’s how I like to wrap up every show and I do stump some people over this so get ready… Mike: 17 INCHES. Laugh Mike: Take it right? What’s the question? Laugh Donnie: I don’t want ask what 17 inches is! Now if you were going to leave the champions who listen to this show, people from all over the world, business owners, entrepreneurs, people who are trying to make the next movement in their life, if you were going to leave them with a quote a phrase a mantra or a saying, something they can take with them on their journey, especially when they are stack up against it and goring through what would be that quote or phrase you would say? Mike: So, I have it above my desk, Oscar Wilde says: Be yourself, everybody else is already taken. Donnie: Oh I love it is one of my favorite quotes from all time, didn’t know it came from Oscar Wilde, I saw it on a meme on Instagram and I thought “Oooh is brilliant”. Mike: Actually I went to Ireland, not specifically for this, but visited statue from him, visited his own home. Donnie: Where ahead in Ireland? because we were just there last year. Mike: Outside Dublin Donnie: Oh no kidding, Dublin was my least favorite city. Mike: Did you see the “Stiletto in the ghetto” the big spike in the middle of the city? Donnie: No we didn’t see that. Mike: I would say it was my least favorite too because is like any other metropolis. Donnie: That’s what my wife and I kept saying, is that if you go to Ireland go to Dublin and I would not knock in Ireland would no knock in Dublin by any means. Mike: No Omg. Donnie: Is like any other big city. Mike: The people in Ireland I would argue are the nicest people, India is number 2 but Ireland is number 1. Donnie: Did you do the breakfast thing? Mike: Yeah! Donnie: Dude I wanna tell you the nicest people, they were so genuine, and the breakfasts were insane. Mike: Insane, blood pudding. Donnie: And the two different styles and all that, so awesome, but look man I really appreciate what you doing, thanks for joining out and looking forward to many big things coming. Mike: Thank you! END OF INTERVIEW Donnie: Wow, what a fun episode, got to tell you, when you see one of these guys and hit some of the celebrity status and maintain this cool level of humility like Mike did all the way through this is just a fun thing to see is a great conversation you are part of. If you like those rise together authentic style conversations o a regular basis you really need to come and hang out with us in our Facebook group “success champions”, daily we are putting cool inspirational stuff or having awesome stories and we helping other rose and go together, so come hang out with us, just go to Facebook type In “success champions” look forward in groups join up and come tell us hi, we will be glad to have you there, if you got any value of this show whatsoever do me a favor, rate it, review it, share it with at least one fiend that would get value out of it, it would mean everything to me to get more people sharing and listening to these stories and ratings and reviews mean everything, so wherever you are listening this podcast, leave a rating leave a review, share it with a friend I really appreciate you guys, thank you for being a champion, thank you listening this show, keep on rolling shit up and keep going baby! 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Donnie Boivin: Hey, hey guys how's it going man this is gonna be a killer episode. I gotta be honest this is probably one of the funnest episodes I've done because for the first time in the history of Success Champion somebody's going to rap on the show. And I gotta tell you, it is bad ass; old school; just hit you raw clean you know lyrics man. I really really enjoyed it. This conversation with Freddie Fri was one of the gems man, I gotta tell you we talked about of course his life growing up and what he’s doing for a lot of the youth in Oklahoma and his career the things he's doing the voiceover space, inspirational motivational space, I took a ton out of this one and I bet you guys as you listen to this one you will as well And I tell you I couldn't do the show without Stacy McGovern and Michael McGovern over at Point Blank Safety Services. Now what they're doing to protect these freeways throughout the state of Texas is absolutely amazing. They’re employing off duty officers to keep our highways and freeways safe, you know the construction workers that work out there and the people driving the freeways. Everybody’s just trying to get these freeways built as fast as possible and get everybody home safe and when you see those patrol cars out there on the freeways, keeping traffic slowdown so the construction workers can work, that’s Stacy's company taking care of everybody So if you’re ever in a spot where you’re looking for, you know off duty officers to help you with safety, security, protecting your assets do me a favour and go to and reach out to Stacey and guys do me a favour follow them on all the social media outlets, give him some love show them that you're there and enjoy the show Alright guys this is gonna be a fun f***ing episode, I am telling you strap it in and just hold on for the ride. So I’VE had a chance to talk with Freddy Fri for a little just bit prior to the show. I’m stoked it’s gonna be a good one so with this week it’s Freddie, I’m Donnie and this is Donnie’s Success Champions — Freddie my brother welcome to the show my friend tell us your story Freddie Fri: I am excited to be here and let's take a chapter or a mindset of the things you never thought you might see or hear on this podcast Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Freddie Fri: ...cause I’m going in, I'm telling my story in hip hop, and I’m go in hip hop. My thing is hip hop, I’m going to go in hip hop Donnie Boivin: Alright, let’s do it Freddie Fri: Let’s go. This is my hip hop form, poetry form, spoken word form. I tapped into my wildest dreams of being great, demons threw the hook I almost took the bait. Was hungry for Success but couldn't get a plate. I wish for greatness early but my genie only granted late. Mama sick, doctor's diagnosis faulty. Prescription messed her kidneys up that still haunts me They told her not to have me but she wouldn't abort. She said, “No!” Even if it cut her life short. In the car with mama slumping, daddy speeding. Final breaths were taken left my heart bleeding. Age 4, my mama got her wings early. I still question why she didn't live to see 30 yall. Papa scooped me up and took me from that drama. At least it wasn't until he met my step mama. Crazy is crazy does she took the cake. I broke down cause I felt like couldn't catch a break. Another tale of a lost soul, study said that I wouldn’t live to be old. Shy boy this world is so cold they used to bully me but then I finally struck gold. 1-2 and you don't stop, I fell in love when I got introduced to hip hop. My new release it gave me good release when I put that pen to pad it gave me total inner peace. So let me introduce the new me to me, confidence erupted I was truly thankful, blessed. I no longer just the guest in my mind. my friends you gotta watch men. That greatness in you so go retrieve it in your mind Keep pushing to be patient, it will happen in due time. A fish can only bite if you keep casting out your line Believe in you ,block out the shade and let the sun shine on through. Because That's exactly what I did. Donnie Boivin: That was f***ing [laughing]… that is an absolute first whee somebody rapped on my show Freddie Fri: There you go! Let’s go! — In a nutshell that's a lot of my story too [laughing] Donnie Boivin: Yeah that's the rap I can get behind man, there’s a story behind it Freddie Fri: Yes sir, yes sir, yes sir Donnie Boivin: I love it, I love it Freddie Fri: I appreciate it Donnie Boivin: I'm about to charge you because nobody dropped a 40 y’know... Freddie Fri: No here's the thing, here's the thing it's so funny because I'm the original founding father of.hip.hop in Oklahoma. Like I was, me and a few of my guys were like the first to… Donnie Boivin: You’re the founding father of hip hop in Oklahoma?? Freddie Fri: Well yeah! In Oklahoma now… hold on now, I didn't say New York, I didn't say everywhere [laughing] Donnie Boivin: There’s like 2 rappers in all of Oklahoma I mean…[laughing] Freddie Fri: Hey, it’s a lot of em. Maybe nobody just blew up but it was a lot of em but i'll say that to say- Donnie Boivin: (inaudible)... in Oklahoma that’s all. Freddie Fri: Man, I’m telling you. Listen to me, I’m telling you. We got it - we get it in out here. But it's so funny because you know I never drank and I never smoked and so I was like basically an oxymoron of hip hop. What Idid, it just didn't fit you know [laughing] Donnie Boivin: Right, that is so awesome Freddie Fri: Unreal, unreal Donnie Boivin:What a tough story though I mean… you know I’m not a big fan of rap unless it’s done that way. And what I mean by that way is, I can understand the lyrics right. I can understand the story behind it, I mean that’s why you know for me Eminem his old school stuff was so solid right. I could get behind that because if you’re not doing things to inspire someone else's story, why the hell are you doing it? Freddie Fri: That’s my thought process Donnie Boivin: Right Freddie Fri: You know, that is totally my thought process and so for me even- I always look back when I was first rapping it wasn't a major but I had a national distribution deal. And my hip hop before I gained custody of my children, I used profanity, I cursed in it. But it was always saying something, there was always a message. There was always a problem, there was always why the problem was and there always was a solution to the problem in the end, even when it wasn't REALLY cool to do that. I might have been cussing, I might've been saying some hardcore stuff but I was really saying something. And so when my children got a little bit older, I never really let them listen to my old stuff cause it had profanity in it Donnie Boivin: Tell them never to listen to this podcast [laughing] Freddie Fri; But trust me they listen to plenty of my old stuff now. But you know so when I came back - when I got back into it, I took a hiatus, when I got back into hip hop. I knew that I was going to be clean, I knew there was going to be a message, there was clear 2020 vision you see your life the older you get; the clearer you can see life and the younger you can see life clearer, the more you can be successful at an early age. And that was kind of my model, my philosophy and so now i’m in a mindset of anything that that I put out hip-hop-wise, anything that I put out motivational-wise it’s trying to help people overcome and win everyday battles and everyday struggles of life Donnie Boivin: We’re gonna dive into your story but I wanna keep on this for a second but here's what I love about your music in general. We’re not going to get into a religious discussion but this is why I think there's so many religions, this is why I think there's so many different styles of music is cause you can hit people where they’re at, right? You’re not gonna come into the country and blare in classical music and expect to hit the people right so I think i’m not gonna bring it Hillbilly Bluegrass into the inner city and expect to you know help those people hear the message Freddie Fri: Right Donnie Boivin: Right? Well it’s that same thing, that’s why I love it. So let’s dive into your story a little bit — it's a tough one dude. At 4 years old you lose mom... Freddie Fri: So 4 years old man, I lost mom it was so crazy, I basically have 3 memories of my mom. I remember being in my home and my dad was working on his motorcycle and I guess I was sitting out in the garage like on the stair watching him and I don't know what he did but somehow his motorcycle caught on fire and he caught on fire I remember her pulling me back in and rescuing him, my dad now had burns all over his body he had to get a whole bunch of skin grafts and everything and you can still see the scars on him today. I remember that. I remember being in the car, like I said, “With momma slumping daddy speeding.” I remember being in the car as he was taking her to the hospital and that was the last time that I saw her alive. And then my third memory is at the funeral, and I was just sitting there didn’t understand what was going on I just remember thinking why was everyone taking turns crying over my momma. You know going up crying and all that stuff And so moved in with my dad, and of course in that day and age I’m pretty sure my dad was kind of like ima do the right thing, and take my son in but I have no earthly idea what i'm doing but let me find a woman, let me get a woman that can take him. And unfortunately that choice wasn't the best lady because it was my eventual step mom who I spent the next 14 years living with that was… nothing physical thank goodness but it was a lot of mental abuse Unfortunately she was a druggie, smoked weed while smoking crack, drank a lot and was very verbally abusive. And so it was just one of those situations where, it was just a tough upbringing so what it did to me is and now I give her credit because I think that the way she was instilled a certain fear in me which I think I needed to be able to survive where I was at, and the situation I was in Cause I was a shy kid very shy, and going to school I was little i wasn't real tall. I was a short fella I used to love playing basketball but I got bullied you know. Before I got in high school I used to get bullied I remember one time I was leaving school and guys chased me, they caught me, picked me up and body slammed me on my head. Took me to a swimming pool, threw me in the swimming pool and just try to hold me underwater I thought I was going to die You know and at the last minute they pulled me up, but it wasn't Eric Thomas’ story you know, “When you wanna breathe as bad as you wanna succeed,” you know. Donnie Boivin: Opposite of that [laughing] Freddie Fri: Yeah, I shoulda thought of that! [laughing] Donnie Boivin: (inaudible) ... right now [laughing] Freddie Fri: Exactly, exactly. And so man it was so crazy because I thought I was just go’n be a basketball player but of course I wasn't tall enough. And so I was just watching tv one day and a rap group luke Wendy MC came on video call, son call, rap box and I was like woah I was already in the music but then when I heard that, it was like oh man so I was like started telling my dad - dad I want some musical equipment. Can you get me some musical equipment I started getting musical equipment, started kind of writing raps. I had no desire to say them in front of anybody you know, I was scared to death. Donnie Boivin: You were a closet rap star Freddie Fri: I was in the closet as a rapper for real but people that knew me, my friends that knew me knew that I could rap so this one guy named Earnest Walker, he came by the house one day. Now I went to Mclean. Again you can't - McLean is just the lowest performing school in Tulsa Oklahoma. It was in our version of the hood if you can believe that, ok. [both laughing] Donnie Boivin: (inaudible) Freddie Fri: I know, I know I know. But you know honestly it’s the same it’s just the other hoods are bigger to be honest with you Donnie Boivin: Okay, no you’re right. I'm just busting chops about everything else. I get it right there’s shitholes everywhere. Freddie Fri: Not just in Oklahoma right [laughing] Donnie Boivin: Yeah Freddie Fri: So it’s so funny because he came over and he’s was like man we having a talent show and I was in the 9th grade, he was like man would you be in the talent show with me. I was like bro,, no. You mean like get up in front of people and try to do something? I tried that one time in middle school and I didnt even make the talent show so I promise you that one defeat was going to be my only defeat as it comes to this music thing. Now I like doing it as a hobby behind the scenes, and I can try to scratch and all that good stuff Write raps and rewrite Wendy MC raps, but as far as getting in front of people? No. But deep down in my heart you know I wanted to do it. I just couldn't overcome the fear and so for the next two weeks straight, this dude was persistent. Came over everyday, every time he saw me, “You gon be in the talent show man?” “I thought I already told you, no. You know leave me alone,” and then one time he came over and he was like, you gon be in the talent show or what stop acting like a little ol’ punk. I don't know if it was the worD punk or what it was… Donnie Boivin: It was the word punk, I guarantee you [laughing] Freddie Fri: Hold on second! Don't - that’s what I feel like it was I don't like that word punk. Donnie Boivin: (inaudible) doesn’t make you feel good [laughing] Freddie Fri: But anyway before I knew it I was like, leave me alone! I’ll do it. And I’m standing there like, in my mind I was like oh snap I just committed to doing this. And I felt very very uncomfortable. So that’s why we preach now when you feel uncomfortable you’re probably in a good place Donnie Boivin: Yes Freddie Fri: And so I gotta be a man of my word, I’m going to do it and so I got prepared — wrote and I wrote, this wasn’t even the talent show Donnie, this was just the try outs. It was only a few people in the crowd that was trying out for the talent show. You know and I’m still scared to death. They called us up, the beat comes on… and I grab the microphone… Now mind you I told you I tried out for a talent show when I was in like 7th o 8th grade and didn’t make it. You know, but I didn’t write that rap it was kind of just lip syncing. Kind of a lip sync war or whatever Donnie Boivin: Millie Vanilli? [laughing] Freddie Fri: Yeah I was doing the Milli Vanilli. I was definitely doing the Milli Vanilli. And so I went on and I was like boom, “Call me (inaudible) don't call me at all, cause when I'm on the mic I'm standing tall, I'm 5 foot 4 when I'm talking to you but when I'm on the mic i'm 7’2.” That's exactly line 2 by the way [laughing] Donnie Boivin: That's awesome [laughing] Freddie Fri: ...but that moment though, that moment changed my life because the feeling that I felt, it was euphoric it was like woah forreal? Nothing ever was the same, nothing ever was the same Donnie Boivin: Ain't no looking back from there Freddie Fri: Confidence came, shyness went away; cut-off jeans; bought a soda pop young but I had big dreams, walk to the halls fifth-grade hope they notice me. Used to bully (inaudible) when approaching me man, just a face in the crowd, shy boy who dreams never said out loud, pop a prom took pics — william penn allstar. 6 Man kinda short they think I won't go fo bar but I had so much heart, gave my all then everything I guess it set me apart. Crooked smile no braces sort of like JCole, confidence I had none head hang down low. At the moment I'm when I spit that verse on stage, everything changed for me bro. And so that's why when you see me I'm an advocate man, when you're uncomfortable you in a good place do the things that you don't want to do - think outside the box, go outside the box push yourself to be the best version of yourself because when I started rapping I still played basketball but it wasn't like the love I got from rapping, “ After the football games we’d be battle rapping on other people and the same people that used to bully me all of a sudden became my biggest supporters. They kept me out of harm's way a lot. The same people but just because now I had a voice, and I said in that other verse, “ When I put that pen to pad it gave me total inner peace.” And what I'm trying to get people to understand is that I took hip hop and I used it to speak on all the issues that I had in my life, it was a positive release Donnie Boivin: And that's why it worked Freddie Fri: Yes Donnie Boivin: And because a lot of what other people do whether they're in the speaking business, the music business... the whatever business, they're trying to be somebody else Freddie Fri: Right, yes Donnie Boivin: You were just sharing your story you just happened to do it in a — actually I'm surprised a method I enjoy [Both laughing] Donnie Boivin: Right which is not my MO by the way [laughing] Freddie Fri: Exactly [laughing] Donnie Boivin: You know but it's that sharing of that authentic message and that is beautiful, And you know it's badass because it takes courage to do two things, oneit took courage to get your ass on that stage Freddie Fri: Forreal Donnie Boivin: Two, it took courage to spit real lyrics that were your story that you had been living knowing that the people that will bullying you and everything else were fixing to hear that s*** Freddie Fri: Yeah for sure, for sure. And so it's so funny because I started not just solo I started with a group and we just became kind of the first to do so many things: the first to be on the radio, the first to be in a recording studio, the first to actually put a cassette tape out and different things of that nature Donnie Boivin: So for our younger listeners it’s this thing you put in your car like an 8 track [Both laughing] Freddie Fri: Oh man that was even before CDs man Donnie Boivin: Right. You had to have a cassette tape carrier in your car for all your different tapes and recorded with all your cool songs Freddie Fri: Can you believe how much- how far technology has come though. It’s unreal we’re here doing this because of technology on the real it's not how it used to happen I had to fly to wherever you’re at and we'll have to have a big old real recording [laughing] Donnie Boivin: And it'd be 20 guys Freddie Fri: Hey would have been exciting but knowing what we know now it would have been hard. Donnie Boivin: But the people don't know you've done these raps now 12 times in a row to get it right we just did all this no I'm kidding [Both laughing] Freddie Fri: One takes man, one takes. You know man I started doing the music man and I was able to- my thing is though I still had for me I always wanted to try to be successful From Oklahoma because I know people kind of think like when you were joking about dung in Oklahoma and all we do is ride horses and all that good stuff. And so I always try and make it from there and so my story is weird because I was having this success as a hip-hop artist that may not have been on a major major stream but I was having the success as a hip-hop artist but at the same time everything else in my life is kind of in shambles And so I graduate high school right like I said for McLean High School, the lowest performing school in this day but I was smart though. It was so easy to me, I actually graduated number for and I say this and I'm not kidding I've never had any homework I didn't have homework for 4 years and I graduated at number 4 in my class that's how easy the work was and I always look back- Donnie Boivin: Damn I wish I would have went to that school I mean we got homework, I didn't do it but I don't mean... Freddie Fri: Now hold on up now my brother Darryl Davis he does all our music that we do. He went to the same school where he had to study his butt off just to make C and I was like I don't know what you doing man... I don't know what you doing... Donnie Boivin: I graduated with like a 2.10. I don’t think you can get much lower and still get by Freddie Fri: And still graduate... you was right there on the cusp you know cusp with a “P” [Both laughing] Freddie Fri: So man so I graduated number 4 right. It was so easy, it didn't prepare me for the real world, and so I always look back and think I wish my dad would’ve put me in at better school because it would have pushed me a little bit more and so while I was at school I met this young lady and I was just walking down the hall and she was walking... pretty girl and I was like, “Girl what you doing?” and she's like I'm going and she kinda gave me some attitude you know what I mean fortunately I liked it and we started talking Now here's the deal guys and gals, when they show you the attitude when you first meet ‘em believe ‘em, that’s who they are.So I started a relationship with this young lady and we wind up having four kids: 1-2-3-4; 1-2-3-4. Donnie Boivin: Didn't somebody tell you how that s*** works? Freddie Fri: Oh man somebody said… aye, I was lost. the people ask me what were you thinking, I wasn't thinking at all, I had absolutely no sense you know what I mean Donnie Boivin: You were thinking it was just with the wrong head [laughing] Freddie Fri: Definitely the wrong one. But this is what so crazy see, the mindset it’s kind of like when my mom passed away. My dad was like ima take him in but I need to make sure I get somebody to like help take care of him and so kind of our thought processes is always that the women is go’n take care of the kids And so that was kind of my thought process and I was just kind of happy going through life I was this rapper and I was doing my rough stuff, but everything else… I was messing my credit up I started college and I dropped out really quick cause my mindset wasn’t there It was four of us in that group, and so in my final year the other guys that were part of the group they had already graduated but all of a sudden they started having money. I used to sell Candy on a truck called Mid American Teens and we'd have about $20 all we were balling, we were doing good these dudes were coming over with hundreds, thousands… I was like dude where are you getting all this money from? And you know it was the mid 80s and they were just like we’re selling drugs And I was like selling drugs, y’all crazy. Never do nothing like that you know that the thought processes that we had — I would never sell drugs. And so fast forward, I graduated high school, I got a kid still trying to do my music... the girl that I'm with they lived in the projects and so her brother was always kind of like man if you get it I'll sell it and I was like no I ain't messing with that stuff.. Had a baby, had a baby on the way, I was broke not only financially but also broken as a person and man I just told them and give me some. I’ll get it and I'll give it to him - got it, gave it to him we are in the projects I'm shooting dice, they are out there selling drugs. I'm the middle man that's what I became I picked it up and I dropped it off but I still was scared I had this fear in me I knew that that wasn't what I supposed to be doing and so I finally got enough guts up to try and sell it myself So we was in another project me and my kids’ mum and her friend and her husband and their kids and all of them in that apartment and somebody said that apartment right there the police are really watching it so you need to be careful if you're over there. So me and her friend's husband left we left some drugs in the house like I had a little bit and he had kind of a lot. The rumour in the hood at that time was cause it was so early on in the drug game that if the police raided the house if the girl put the drugs on her they wouldn't search it because she was a female. So we went where we went and came back and so when we came back to the apartment you can see like if you come around the curve you can see the apartment and we thought we saw police and our heart just dropped oh snap. Cause we knew there was drugs in the house and so we just kind of creeped on around and once we got around to the apartment there were no police cars there so we were like, “Whew, thank goodness.” But then her friend's mum bust out ,they had twins - they had two kids in her hands and she said, “Police just came and raid the place, they took both of the girls to jail!” And I’m like oh snap. So they done busted in the house my baby's mama put the drugs on her she put my little 20 two rocks and her bra, put his oz in her pocket and so where we were at was a different county so she she was getting booked at Osage County but then she had to go to Tulsa County to get booked in Well they found the drugs for the Osage County at the place, when she got down to get booked in at Tulsa they found my two 20 rocks so she got a charge there and she had the other charges. So my heart just dropped and I'm like damn my life is over man… I already know because her friend was singing like a canary, “that wasn't my stuff that was my husband stuff,” Bro that's why I always think my mom is my guardian angel, because throughout that whole process my name never came up. They took the charges from my baby's mama put it on him, my name never came up. And so that was a sign from God that was a gift from God and I was like you know and I’m out and I was out. Cause I never should have been in to begin with, I never went back and so got past that stage of life again like I said with the same young lady I have 4 kids. I had four kids by the age of 25 And it was like a normal day and I went to bed when I woke up I was different. I woke up and I was staring at my ceiling because I knew something was different I was like oh- you know how you blind right, it's like you're blind and the light is off and it's dark and you flip the light on and now you can see everything and that's what seems like happened to me. I can see all the stupid stuff I've been doing with my life. I could see how to see driving with no suspension, driving with no insurance, doing or selling the drugs, this that and the third. And the first thing I thought about it was I gotta get my kids. Cause me and the baby momma weren't together anymore so I was just kind of like going to see the kids from time to time and they were living in the hood for real like the worst part of North Tulsa they were living. And they went to the same schools, local form elementary. The smallest was 3 at the time and the oldest age 7. And so crazy how things happened and why you think though I got a call from her from their mum she's like you know I need you to get the kids from me for a little bit I'm kind of dealing with a rough patch I want to kind of strange stuff and I'm like I'll take them So I had a one-bedroom apartment right got the kids sleeping on pallets, four kids in the living room… they’re excited you know Donnie Boivin: Camping, right. Freddie Fri: Oh man they're having a ball and so she calls me a week later and she’s like ok I'm better can you bring the kids back I said yes I'll bring them back under one condition - if you call me again with this- cause in my mind I already know i'm gonna have them. I'm gonna raise em I already know, I just know the situation, I know I was doing a little bit better than she was. And so I said if you call me back again, they’re gonna live with me. And she says oh yeah whatever. And she drops the off and her sister calls me and says man freddie you need to really get those kids its a lot of stuff going on that you don't know nothing about And so, two weeks later - she calls me again, I go get the kids. First thing I did is went to their school which is kind of still crazy to this day because I don't remember showing any ID I don't remember doing nothing but I withdrew them from the school they were in and I were enrolled them in the school that I was that I was in — that was by my house living by the South Tulsa which is a much better neighborhood then where she lived. Got my all of them out my youngest one wasn't in school yet like I said she was only 3, 3 girls and a boy. Called me in three weeks later and said I'm doing a little bit better now…. I was like well, they don't even go to the same school anymore I took them under out of that school I say you go and get yourself in order and I got the kids. I have the kids. And so I’m sitting around here looking crazy I'm looking cray cray, 3 girls and a boy man can you imagine me tryna do some hair…? Come on man! Donnie Boivin: [laughing] Freddie Fri: ...come on man, I'm trying to do buns, I'm very hard to do. Hey hey here is the worst part though there was no YouTube I couldn't even look on YouTube to try to figure out how to do some hair. You know so I thought I was doing a good job but you know when my girl's got a little older they said dad you’re not allowed to touch my hair Donnie Boivin:... you are not touching my head [Both laughing] Freddie Fri.... you are not touching my hair though. It’s a funny thing happened though as I was raising my kids, I still look back now and I don't know how I mean I don't know how we did it but we did it. I was doing odd jobs, I was selling mixtape cds, I had a couple of good years with the music and I'll selling a lot of music… it was so crazy because I was learning entrepreneurship as I was raising them because I had to come up with so many hustles but where there is a will there's a way I created my own distribution line for my music and I was selling my music all across the country, you know. Just cash-on-delivery straight ups I send them a sample Apple people liked it, I was selling to Seattle, Louisville, Houston all over the place and they got a little bit older and I was a basketball guy so started coaching basketball that was my background I want to whoop so I started coaching I started with boys then I was dating a young lady she had a tall daughter. My oldest daughter was short but she was fast so when they want to 3 grader I started at real good team like we became one of the best teams in the country and we could play against anybody in fact off that team I had girls that wind up going to Baylor, Tennessee these are the colleges that they went to UCLA, Georgetown, ORU has some big-time kids of that team But I didn't know when I started coaching and coaching 3rd grade, 4th grade and 5th grade I was basically again preparing myself for what my actual business today is, which is hosting youth basketball tournaments so I parlayed the coaching that I was doing for free I was adding value to not only my kids life but to the many kids that I coached and I touched as I got a little bit older I was just doing the math like this guy got 60 teams on his tournament, how is charging x amount of dollars. we gotta pay at the door to get in,concession I said I'm gonna try this, so me and a partner of mine who actually was a guy whose daughter was on the team, we decided to start a company I think my oldest was... when we started that probably in the 10th grade and so we started this company, started hosting youth tournaments but here's the deal you said something about this little earlier. You said I was able to be successful because I was being authentic to myself, when we started the youth tournament business we wasn't really being authentic to ourselves we were trying to follow somebody else's model and so he did tournaments… he was like the guru of them, he would do one tournament of month or sometimes two, so we would try to do the same thing but not on the weekends that he was throwing them. I mean we were doing ok but I couldn't get ahead I was splitting money with him, we wasn’t making a lot of money and it's about three years later and it was a whole bunch of other things that I'm not even going to speak about 3 years later I made a decision, guess what? I got uncomfortable and I said I was 3 months behind on my rent and thank goodness that I had a landlord that was willing to work with me so I called my guy and I was like bro also everything, the name and all that you can keep all of that but I'm gonna do something different he's like man don't do that and I said nah I gotta do it cause I was doing a lot of work I made sure before I left I did all. I was trying to run it by myself so I knew I knew what I was doing. And so the first thing I did once I broke that relationship is of course, I came up with a new name and all of that good stuff I figured out the gaps, and so I work with Dr Eric Thomas and he has a man named CJ brilliant dude... you know he worked with Inky Johnson and some of these other big artists, big motivational speakers out there and one thing he always says is you need to figure out the gaps. What problem are you solving and I didn't even know CJ then but that's what I did at that moment in time which was probably about 10 years ago. I said ok I don't want to do it like we've been doing how we’ve been doing it, it’s not working we having tournaments but we're not getting ahead and so I said okay... so I started thinking From my basketball coaches side well we normally play tournaments over Friday, Saturday and Sunday most of the time. People always complained about playing Sunday I said ok that's one thing. Maybe I could have Saturday only tournaments I could just do them one day and if it's lucrative enough then I can make it work and another thing was we were following somebody else's model as far as trying to schedule one tournament a month trying to guess when people wanted to play and guess when they didn't want to play I was kind of like well, why not just have a tournament every week just kind of like make it like a job, just have one every Saturday. You know and then work hard on being very customer friendly and providing phenomenal customer service Donnie Boivin: Which is really hard to do when you're dealing with kids’ parents Freddie Fri: Woah! and coaches [laughing]. So man let me tell you though Donnie though, once I launched I mean again that was one of the best decisions I've ever made in my life, for the last 10 years I've hosted a tournament every Saturday with the exception of the Saturday after Thanksgiving because that's the one I take off. If Christmas falls on Saturday I won't have one either but for the last 10 years and I promise you but you know the rent thing it was done in 3 or 4 months, I was good. One of the best decisions I ever made sometimes you gotta jump and people have been telling me that I should do it, should have done that a long time ago but I feel like things all happen at the right time and I think you with people for season for certain reasons for certain things you need to learn and grow from and but it wasn't easy you know. I've been dealing with the gentleman for a while and for me to say you know what I have to do what I have to do because I'm a great assistant coach, if me and you if you were the head I would be a great assistant coach but I'm even a better head coach... I'm a phenomenal head coach. I'm a great assistant coach but I'm a phenomenal head coach And some of you guys out there, you’re a great assistant coach you great at playing the background but you are a phenomenal head coach and you don't even know it because you've been scared to take the jump. You doing all the leg work for somebody else and you have dreams and you see the holes, you see the gaps, you see what they’re doing wrong and you know you can do it better but you're scared to do it. Don't be scared; go jump So I stop right there and say so some of you guys out there you hiking with slackers. Who’s in your circle, you know what I mean? And so I started teaching from the rap out go like 4, 5. 6, 8 bars whatever and I’d come to a key point and I’d stop and I start teaching and I'll jump right back into the rap and start teaching and at that very moment everything changed. I was like oh that's it right there and it came from me doing the Success Series, that’s was what the Success Series was there for me — to learn how to really use the hip-hop and make it really even more powerful Donnie Boivin: Because as I said man it's like we talked about before man, it's taking the music to them right? So you communicate to them at their level they can understand and embrace. You stacked up against some filthy nasty dirty rap lyrics out there right and I'm not busting on rap every genre of music does this Freddie Fri: Yeah yeah in their own way, in their own way Donnie Boivin: Yeah yeah yeah, you gotta think about it these kids when they're playing in their cars the music th rap they listen to is this to the stuff that's not a building them up - there was a Christian group called DC Talk and they were a white rap group and they really hit the scene hard one of the biggest Christian groups of all time it's because they were taking the music the kids were into and putting it into a message and that’s what you’re doing and the more you keep doing it I'm telling you man the world's gonna freaking open up to you Freddie Fri: Man it's pretty cool, it's fun to do you can see the light bulbs go off but my thing is like you talked about the music. The music is just filling them with negative vibes, negative emotions — there’s an opioid crisis and we got hip-hop artists is telling people to pop mollies and just pop mollies and she pop mollies and she did this and I did it to this chick and I made how much money selling drugs — if that's all that's feeding you then that's what you become My biggest story is people try to say that well peer pressure ain’t real. No, let me tell you peer pressure is real... let me tell you how real peer pressure is. Back when we were rappers I used to engineer the studio right? I had about 10 - 11 - 12 rappers that came to our studio all the time right. We all was doing clean rap, it was all clean - clean, fun nothing crazy about it. Then guess who came out, NWA. Donnie Boivin: [laughing] Freddie Fri: cube, and that was one of my favourite rappers Ice Cube but when Ice Cube came out, here's (inaudible) and within a year's time we all were cussing in our lyrics including me, all of us. So peer pressure is real the stuff that these kids are hearing feeling, especially before their cerebral cortex and their brain kicks in. Mine ain’t kicked in until I was 25 when I woke up that morning that's when my reasoning kicked into my brain. It doesn't kick in - so all they thinking is this is how I should be living. And so for me I try to as authentic as I can and I know they into bars, they into you saying stuff that's clever and things like that you can't come in there and be corny. And so once they get over the fact that I'm a little bit older than them, they’ll respect you when they know that you can really rap They respect me because they say this dude’s got - and you’ll know cause they say, “Bars! Ooh, bars!” that type of stuff so Donnie Boivin: They're like old dudes got tricks [laughing] Freddie Fri: Exactly. Exactly, I challenge them too. I tell them who hating toda, who don't think I can rap tell me I need that fuel. Where my haters at and I let loose on them and we have a good time Donnie Boivin: That's awesome dude, you know Freddie I mean kudos to you seriously because everybody has got their lane you know you found your lane, you found your place. You found your voice and you using your passion you love to change the youth coming up in the world. There's nothing more beautiful than that and I truly mean that because there is so much and ridiculous bad influence in this world you know somebody has got to be helping these kids coming up - it's not my calling right but I'm honoured that you're taking that on your shoulders Because that's a big mountain to move my friend Freddie Fri: Yes, it is. But that's my life and you know I'm excited about it. It's so funny because I can take the same thing that I do for the youth and I can go do it for adults and it works the exact same way Donnie Boivin: Right Freddie Fri: That's what’s crazy you know. But it’s all about reaching, teaching and adding more value, to people and that's kind of what my life mission is, and so if you can make a few coins along the way then that's all the more merrier as well Donnie Boivin: Exactly right, exactly right. Now Freddie I got to say this has been a blast I really have enjoyed the hell out of this conversation man. Let's do this, how do people get in touch with you, how do they find you if they want to make fun of your rap music — I mean, listen [Both laughing] Freddie Fri: Yeah that too, hey you can pretty much is the website. Freddie Fri Motivation on all social media platforms for all the latest information. I'm really big now on the motivational voice over arena I work with a lot of big companies, basically my thing is I'm just helping a lot of people that were just like me that never thought they could go to another level and so everything that I talk about then I teach about is trying to help you overcome obstacles that you're face in life and it ain’t necessarily about you being from the richest person financially but it's finding a way to be the richest person internally. No matter what you have in your bank account because you are gonna have stuff so I'm just trying to help you overcome that stuff On my shoulder right now I got a little ice pack cause I had like a bump come up on my shoulder, dealing with drama uncertainty what is that, my wife is digging into it - it hurts but life hurts and I know that there's people out there that have got it a lot worse than me. So anyway Freddie Fri Motivation, aye check me out and hopefully I can say a word or two that can help you go to another level in your life Donnie Boivin: Love that brother. Alright man here's our like to wrap up every episode and I do stump some people on this so stand by Freddie Fri: Ok Donnie Boivin: If you were gonna leave the champions of this show who listen to this show 78 countries around the world that tune in almost every day and if you were gonna leave them with a quote, a phrase, a mantra something they can take with them on their journey especially when they’re stacked up against it and going through it? What would be the quote or phrase you would say, remember this: ... Freddie Fri: Kill them with kindness... and murder them with success Donnie Boivin: Love it dude [laughing]. Freddie I appreciate it brother, this has been awesome. I really appreciate your time Freddie Fri: Hey I got to get down to Texas we got some bass fishing to do, let's go! [laughing] Donnie Boivin: Thank you so much for tuning into this one this is just a fun episode. I can’t tell you how I love an episode when I can laugh and joke all the way through it. So make sure you go and follow Freddie on all of his stuff and check out all of the stuff he’s into. You know Freddie is a regular in one of my Facebook groups called Success Champions. Come hang out man, he's constantly putting out some really cool content in there with all the other champions that are rising together. So if you wanna hang out with just a bunch of other badasses who are going forward, come hang out in the Facebook group Success Champions just go to groups type in the words Success Champions, a group will pop-up. Come hang out with us there and if you're looking to start a podcast please come hang out with us at So, You Want To Podcast come hang out with us there as well. So, You Want To Podcast click on the groups button it will pop up and come hang out with us guys we're looking forward to seeing you there. Appreciate you so much, I love you so much for listening to this episode. Share with a friend and give the review on iTunes and keep being badasses I'm proud of you, we'll see how big you can go thanks guys To book Freddy Fri or for more information -- Follow Freddy Fri Motivation for WEEKLY MOTIVATIONAL VIDEOS and other content: Website -- Twitter -- Facebook -- Instagram -- LinkedIn - If you enjoyed this episode, please Comment Share and leave a review... Want to start a podcast? Join the Conversation in our Facebook Group Success Champions
Full Show Transcription (An Idea I picked up from Neil) Donnie Boivin: A great conversation, we’re gonna talk about SEO and how to get higher ranked on google and everything else but it was fun we talked about our farms, his ranch my farm you know and we just talked about what kind of entrepreneurs and the journey and just the things that he’s done in his short time working with businesses - a couple of things. I was surprised to find he wasn’t the CEO of his company, he really likes being with the tinker so really really fun episode guys Dive in and have a lot of fun and you know do me a favour I couldn't do these shows without Stacy McGovern and her company Point Blank Safety. You know they are doing just awesome things for police officers and their families but they’re also doing great things to keep us safe on the freeways such as when we going about. I mean you know, you’ve been driving along there’s an obstruction up on the freeway, there’s usually a cop car sitting there to help keep the workers safe so everybody gets home well that’s usually Stacy’s company, so if you’re ever in a spot where you need safety services to help with your construction projects, your... whatever that you need safety for. Reach out to Point Blank safety services, tell them that Donnie sent you and watch how awesome and the cool things that they do and can do to protect you, your employees and us as we’re driving along the roads. Enjoy this episode guys, gonna be a lot of fun Alright guys, it’s going to be a fun killer episode. I’m bringing in Neil Patel man. I know a lot of you that follow the show have been asking me to get him on here for quite a while so it should be a lot of fun to have this conversation so this is Donnie and this is Donnie’s Success Champions, Neil my friend, welcome to the show brother please, tell us your story. Who the heck are ya? Neil Patel: I’m Neil Patel. I’m a serial entrepreneur. I’ve created a few marketing technology companies, I blog at I have one of the most popular marketing kills on the internet called Ubersuggest which funny enough, is free. That’s pretty much a bit about me you know, that’s - I was 15 and half, I was 16 and now I’m 33 years old. Donnie Boivin: Yeah no, it’s awesome. I mean I actually have used a couple of your tools that are out there I mean but how did you get into all this? I mean did you wake up one day and say I was going to be this technology influencer or what? Neil Patel: I don’t know if I’m an influencer but the way I got started in all of this was, I was 15 and half and I was picking up trash and cleaning restrooms, not the best job. But I did it, it paid money. I wanted a higher paying job so I was searching the web on for high paying jobs I realised I wasn’t qualified for any of them at 15. I just wanted to get to 6 figures. So I ended up creating my own job board, ‘cause I’m like if you can’t find a job what do you do? You create a job board. Probably not the right logic and reasoning but that’s how I thought as a 15 and a half, 16 year old. Created a job board - popped it up, paid someone to help me out took all the money I saved from picking up trash and cleaning restrooms and guess what? It didn’t work. I created a sh***y ME2 version. And I was like, I thought you created a website and people just come! You know this better than anyone else, no one just comes to your website you gotta do marketing. And then at that point I learned about marketing, paid a few marketing firms. Got ripped off, lost my money. I was frustrated, I was broke at the time, learned it on my own - did a good job, still made no money but I got traffic. Then I was like hey, why not help out other people with marketing. I don’t know how to create a job board but I do know how to get traffic. Donnie Boivin: So you’re the traditional entrepreneur, not the one that you see hyped in all the media that you become an entrepreneur and hey, you’re a millionaire tomorrow type thing that you see online Neil Patel: No that wasn’t me, I wish that was me. Donnie Boivin: (laughs) You and me both. So most things are created out of necessity right? We go on a journey, we buy into some sort of pipe dream you know that this is all we have to do and we’ll sail off into the sunset type thing. But in reality, you like most of us got your teeth kicked in - realised what you did better than some, you just figured how to turn that into a business with the knowledge you had. And some might say you’ve had a little success of doing that so far. But you know, it’s fun to watch someone who’s created things - what are probably some of those big lessons as you were starting out, figuring all this out that you know maybe were a little tough to learn while others came pretty easy? Neil Patel: Yeah a few of them were one, you need to focus, I kept trying to do too many things you know, even at 16. When I was doing marketing for other companies I was doing (inaudible). I was 16 years old, got myself to 20 grand a month really fast. Which is good money, even today it’s good money. And then I lost it all and then I lost the money I made on top of that and what I ended up learning is you should focus. What I was investing in back then was considered cloud computing. There was no AWS or anything like that but I had the idea. I’m not saying that I was the first but I was one of the first to execute on it and I did a sh***y job. And I quickly learned that hey, you should focus. If I just focused and continued to do marketing because even if I was investing then maybe I got that 20 grand to 50, to 100 and I was eventually making over a million dollars a year just doing marketing and then I started expanding into other businesses. Like why, I should have just kept going in the vertical that I was in and that was a big mistake that I made. You know, as I was generating all this income and growing the business, I quickly learned that just because you do one thing really well, and you can even provide results - it doesn’t mean that you’re going to keep making money. So to give you an idea during the recession in 2008 I lost a lot of customers. When you do SEO and marketing for people they considered that WTF (inaudible). What the heck is this? And I ended up losing quite a bit of income from that as well. And another hard lesson that I ended up going through was as you’re creating these businesses no matter how smart you are, it’s about people. Funny enough I have a blog coming out on this tomorrow, I don’t know when this goes out and it’s discussing if I had to start over, what would I if I had to do it all over again. And it’s funny in there I talk about I would spend 9 years working for other people before I became an entrepreneur. See I’d work at a really large corporation like at Microsoft just to see how large companies work. I’d work at a really small startup and not a sexy one like that’s steering fast like Uber or Airbnb, I’m talking one that struggled because then it teaches you how to be creative and think outside the box and make this happen and it teaches you how to be scrappy. I’d also work at a startup that is doing really well and is skyrocketing, that’s raised over 10 million and just growing really fast - reason being, it shows you what companies growing really fast are like and how to keep up with them and how to deal with the mess that scaling fast causes and how to clean it up often. I”d work for a company that was doing somewhere around a hundred million, but not at a billion and see how they work cause organisationally they got to scale up, they got to improve themselves every time - it’s not that easy. Donnie Boivin: One interesting thing on that Neil is I spent 20 years as an employee before I launched and became what they call an entrepreneur right. I was in the sales game for 20 years, here’s the difference, now I love your idea of going to work for somebody else but to do that you’ve got to go in with the mindset that eventually you’re going to start your own business. +Cause I never went into that game - I always thought I was going to do the “make a crap tonne of money being a sales guy” and retire until I realised how much more money money the companies were making than I was. It just took me 20 years to get there Neil Patel: You hit the nail on the head, this process only works if you know you’re going to start a business cause the key to working at all these different company sizes is to learn specific skills from them. From hiring to recruiting, to dealing with bullsh** problems and internal politics, because if you want to build a big business and I learned this one the hard way, this is why I tell people to work for others is people is what grows the company. It’s not just your idea, it’s not the CEO it really comes down to your kingdom. It doesn’t matter how smart you are, you could be the next Elon Musk, or Mark Zuckerberg or Bill Gates. If you don’t have an amazing team, you’re not going to do well. And I didn’t learn that lesson until - I kid you not - this year. It was actually last year but close enough. And this lesson was really hard for me because it taught me that if you have the right people, you just grow super fast. Like this year without getting into my revenue, we’ve had 3X in growth. Donnie Boivin: I mean making an extra 10 bucks a year, that’s pretty good bud - well done. (laughs) Neil Patel: Really? And we’re well into the millions right, I’m not talking 2, 3, 4 or 5 million we’re substantially more alright, we’re a 8 figure plus business. But to 3X, technically more than 3X but to 3X our size being bootstrapped, self-funded. That’s crazy growth Donnie Boivin: Right, well but I mean going back to the days, they always taught Henry Ford his genius - his only genius was hiring people that were 10 times smarter than he was in all these unique fields and categories, whether you love Henry Ford or hate him. I love the idea behind it is, there’s a whole interview done where they were trying to bash him in the interview, “You’re not a very smart guy, why are you the one making all these decisions?” and he says look, I hit this button and I immediately have the head of engineers on the phone, I hit this button I have the head of sales on the phone, I hit this button and you know he has all these geniuses around him and once he found that team of geniuses he was able to do what he was good at which was, lead. While his geniuses were actually going to work and build his business and do all the things they do, You know it’s a brilliant business model Donnie Boivin: How did you realise that, that's what you need to do for your business? That you couldn't just be chief cook and bottle washer? Neil Patel: Yeah and funny enough i'm not even the ceo of my business so I’ll be the guy who just focuses on driving the traffic. I had a roommate when I was living in Vegas, and his name is Mike. At the time I was getting like a few hundred thousand visits to my website and now im at 3 point something million visits a month. And Mike was just like, hey you don’t do anything with this traffic let me just figure out how to make some money with it And Mike made more money faster than I could from my own traffic. Mike didn't go to college, I’m not saying going to college requires anything, he not booksmart Mike’s really creative. He is smart overall, he’s not the type that sits down and he studies and he does well on a test. Mike’s more smart like he needs to solve a problem, he’ll learn and figure it out really fast how to solve that problem but he’s not like a hey let me study for a bar exam type of guy right? And he’s always did better than me and I was like how is this possible? SAnd Mike’s just like, I don’t do it. I just go find people who are really good in this one thing, who have done it in this space and I work with them and that’s all he did. He just recruited a ton of people who are really good at a specific task, that’s all you do and if they didn’t have a proven track record in the same exact space he wouldn’t deal with them Donnie Boivin: Wow, that’s pretty smart. Is Mike looking for another job by any chance? Neil Patel: He’s not Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Neil’s like I’m protecting that dude Neil Patel: Yeah, he’s actually my partner now right, so… Donnie Boivin: So your lane really is driving the traffic and that’s kind of your specialty, your niche to get traffic to sites. Was it just trial and error, you know? You screwing up a lot of things until you figured out what worked to drive traffic or was it, did it kind of come natural to you? Neil Patel: I was pretty good at it early on, I was always a computer geek. But when I look at traffic I’ve been doing this for 17 years now so overtime… Donnie Boivin: Well I hope you’ve learned something in that timeframe right Neil Patel: But more importantly I had no choice, think about: 16 years old, growing up on the Orange County California in a city that has beautiful sunshine, we didn’t have an AC. My parents didn’t have an air conditioner in their house cause we grew up in the poor part of Orange County and we weren’t very broke but my first job was cleaning restrooms and toilets, and I was doing whatever I can to live a better life. And I was just like, I had no choice but to figure it out - I didn’t have tons of money or other people helping me. I just had no choice but to learn it well if you want to do it well, you’ve got to do it on your own if you don’t care then that’s fine Donnie Boivin: No that’s awesome. So, what’s kind of the big vision with this whole thing? Are you going to become the next internet mogul for lead generation and… Neil Patel: I don’t know what my next step is other than just keep driving traffic and I’ll just keep driving traffic and growing the leads. I let Mike, he’s the CEO - figure the rest out. Seriously I just haven’t figured it out Donnie Boivin: That’s awesome. So we’ve got listeners in 78 countries, a lot of entrepreneurs are listening to this show and small businesses trying to figure out how to drive further traffic to their sites. What are some simple tips and tricks or easy things that they could implement now that would help them drive traffic to their businesses Neil Patel: Sure I’ll give you simplest hack you can do out there and this thing works like a charm ok? So one, if you’re already getting traffic, you can type in the keywords that you already rank for and if you don’t know what they are you look for them in your google analytics, your google search console will tell you and type in those keywords into a free tool called Ubersuggest. In Ubersuggest, it will give you a long list of other related keywords that also get traffic. Take those keywords, shove them in your content. And don’t just shove them in there, reword them you know jazz it up, so that way it’s also related to all those other keywords. If you rank for that one keyword, it will trigger all the other keywords and it’ll be easier for you to rank for it and how much extra traffic you can get The next thing I would want you to do is take all your closest competitors, if you don’t know what they are search for them on Google with the keyword you’re trying to rate for. Type in those URLs into Ubersuggest, it’ll show you how much traffic they’re getting from each country, what are their top pages, what keywords are driving business to this top pages and who’s even linking to them. How many social shares do they have, from Facebook to Pinterest you know, you get the point And what you wanna do is, you take their best pieces of content and you create better versions of it, publish it on your site, reach out to the people who linked out to them - ask the to link out to you and then on top of that, reach out to all the people that shared their content and ask them to share yours Donnie Boivin: Alright, badass. And you built the whole site, Ubersuggest right? Neil Patel: Yeah built it for free. Technically it cost me Donnie Boivin: Sure but somehow you’re using that as a lead magnet into your business... Neil Patel: Not yet.There’s no lead magnet on it, we don’t click emails, you don’t register for accounts Donnie Boivin: Then why the hell are you doing it? Neil Patel: Well fun and games Donnie Boivin: Just to game the system? Neil Patel: No no no. Fun and games like, can I beat my competition and screw over their business Donnie Boivin: (laughs) So you did this all to just see if you could do it? Neil Patel: Moreso to disrupt the industry but yeah, that would be an entertaining experiment Donnie Boivin: Love that, that’s brilliant. It’s so funny, I’m not a techy guy right. You know I pay other people to do a lot of that s***t for me because you know my lane is being the face of the company, center of attention, doing all the interviews, going on stages and all that. You’ve got a little bit of that in you as well because you did a crap ton of videos, you’re putting out content and everything else. Would you rather be behind the computer screen or in front of it? Neil Patel: I don’t care either way, as long as traffic goes up into the right I’m happy. I don’t care about the numbers Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Right on, right on. Neil Patel: To go back to that question if you had to tell me Neil if you had to start all over again, do you want to be the face of the company? I would say no Donnie Boivin: You want to be the backend? Neil Patel: Yeah. And there’s one reason, it’s harder to sell a face It’s easier to sell a corporate band. Donnie Boivin: That is a 100% true. Because everybody judges from what they see, not what they know - the analytics and the background Neil Patel: Yeah, you even think about this. Who’s one of the most popular people in the business arena that you can think of, name one person Donnie Boivin: In business arena right now Gary Vee is carrying a lot of nobility, Simon Sinek you know guys like that Neil Patel: Yeah, Tony Robbins, there’s a ton of them. Now Gary has created a company, so has Simon Sinek… I don’t know if Simon Sinek actually has yet. Donnie Boivin: No he hasn’t yet. Neil Patel: Tony Robbins definitely has. But if you look at them, they’re definitely doing an amazing job. Tony’s always doing well I don’t know him. Gary, I don’t know him well. He’s done an amazing job as well, built a great company. But the moment a company is tied to a personal brand it’s not worth as much as if you’re just, a Coca Cola or Microsoft or Berkshire Hathaway. When Steve Jobs passed away it sucked but Apple is still a bigger company than it was before Steve Jobs was in the driver seat. I’m not saying he didn't have a huge impact, he didn’t lay the roadmap. I’m not saying he didn’t do anything like that. He did a ton even for the future of Apple, to make sure that they’re going at the right trajectory. But when a company is named after a person it’s not as valuable as when it’s named after a random thing that you can end up selling The moment that key person goes away, for example you know I hope Gary Vee lives forever in technology chambers, the same with Tony Robbins or even me. But when we go away, what happens to that traffic and user base that’s following us? I’m nowhere near as popular as them but in general I know my business will go down. Tony Robbins without Tony Robbins will not make the same amount of money period. I don’t care who’s running it Donnie Boivin: Well prime example is a guy... you’re younger than I am I don’t know how old you are but... Neil Patel: 33 Donnie Boivin: 33? Alright, I got you with about 10 years. There’s a motivational speaker named Zig Ziglar. Zig had one of the largest brands in the world once upon a time. But now that Zig is no longer around his business is still here but it will never reach the peaks of what Zigler corporation was Zig was around, still alive and kicking you know. It’s the same thing is, a name has no monetary value to it whatsoever Neil Patel: Sadly right, so you gotta build a company without the person Donnie Boivin: Yeah but that’s why you see companies like Google and I don’t remember the numbers but spent an astronomical amount of money on their name to figure it out. You know what to name their company to get that brand right out the gate. And that’s where you bring in the branding people always come in and tell it’s brand brand brand brand brand. My argument is, whatever you sell that’s the most important thing Neil Patel: It really is and without that independent brand, it just… No one knows the founder of Coca Cola is or Pepsi or any of that. Where are based right now? Donnie Boivin: Fort Worth Texas Neil Patel: Okay, did you know that the founder of West Fargo also founded American Express? Donnie Boivin: No I didn't actually Neil Patel: Yeah and nobody cares who is the founders of West Fargo are, I'm not trying to be rude Donnie Boivin: Right right right right Neil Patel: Those brands are still kicking today and they're bigger than when they were founded by whoever founded them Donnie Boivin: That's funny Neil Patel: Even American Express right? The founder’s no longer around what's funny is I got into West Fargo and I see pictures of visas and credit cards and think man if your founder was still alive... if they knew that they'd be pissed. They roll in on you guys like, you pitching visa? Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Right, that’s funny. Well it’s the same thing for any big brands, American Airlines, FedEx, you know all those big brands and the only thing I know about FedEx is the owner was a veteran, that's the best I can tell you. But that's one of the reasons he created it. Same thing with GEICO owner was a veteran, wanted to take care of the military, they forgot that somewhere along the way but you know Neil Patel: (inaudible) was all about the gecko Donnie Boivin: Yes 100% Neil Patel: Profitability… Berkshire Hathaway has grown an arm and a leg, I don't know how much bigger they've grown but they spend probably 100 + million dollars a year just on ads Donnie Boivin: I remember one time I looked it up to see how much they spent a year and they're not even like in the top 20 of companies that spend on marketing. Blew me away Neil Patel: Really? Donnie Boivin: Yeah but you also got to take into account, the stadiums that people are buying. AT&T is in the top, it got the Dallas Cowboys stadiums and a couple of other stadiums. It was really kind of impressive to see because you see GEICO freakin’ everywhere but when the time I looked at it, which was the last couple of years, they weren't even in the top 20 as far as most revenue dollars spent on marketing which is insane to me. Because they're literally everywhere. It's the only brand I've seen take so many different marketing lines. From the caveman to the gecko to whatever they just have so many different commercials under that brand that you can help and not think about Neil Patel: Yeah that's funny I was actually googling it the same time were talking, which company spent the most on advertising and then I landed on my own website Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Neil Patel: (inaudible) Alphabet over 2 billion a year, never knew that. Charter Communications 2.4 to 2.45, Verizon 2.6; General Motors 3.2; and Amazon 3.3; AT&T 3.5; Procter and Gamble this makes sense because they have so many brands 4.39; number one Comcast 5.75. Donnie Boivin: Isn't that insane Neil Patel: It is but when you also think about it, I think we also recall GEICO because they are much better at the ads, like AT&T has boring ads, geico's like ah cool the gecko... creative you know they're not all interesting but a lot of them are Donnie Boivin: Right, my favourite one is still is the caveman. I love how they work by like the posters and stuff, they get all offended because it's so bad even a caveman… brilliant marketing because they know that it's in the words of Gary Vee, “grabbing attention”. What did you think of this year's Super Bowl ads? Did you watch the Super Bowl at all? (inaudible) ...the game or whatever you're supposed to call it Neil Patel: Yeah and I looked up also GEICO as well, GEICO spends more than a billion a year on ads Donnie Boivin: Okay Neil Patel: So this year's Super Bowl the game was so paced but the ads were good as usual you know they’re creative... Funny enough I still remember the older ones, the Budweiser ones, what's that other one... Donnie Boivin: ...with Budweiser remember the frogs was a Budweiser (inaudible) Neil Patel: Yeah, yeah (laughs)... “Budweiser” Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Neil Patel: You know I don't think the commercials are as good as what they used to be maybe cause I was younger when I saw some…? Donnie Boivin: Well I think it's partially because of like YouTube and stuff you know, and now you're able to consumer things in other places. It's a lot harder to come up with something more creative Neil Patel: You know what's awesome? I was reading an article yesterday while I was watching the Oscars, and the article was talking about how Netflix is screwing over Hollywood and they're crushing it. And I was like ah, this actually makes sense they're screwing up the box office, and they're talking about the movie industry has still grown but the only reason they’ve grown even though the population increased is because of international expansion and they're charging more per ticket Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Neil Patel: And they've still grown by 10% is what the article stated I'm not sure how accurate that is. But it’s probably true Netflix and YouTube and Amazon they're just crushing all of it. I watch Netflix, YouTube and Amazon Prime more than you know like what's on TV Donnie Boivin: Yeah and you throw in the radio is completely dying again Neil Patel: Yeah podcasting Donnie Boivin: Yeah I mean last year alone 200 000 podcasts were launched, which became a whole industry of 600 000 podcasts in total. Which is still small in comparison if you look at other platforms but nobody wants to sit through commercials, you can literally do basically a Google search on a podcast platform and listen to the hell you want to listen to just like you would YouTube video. You know it's insane I love anything that knocks the big boys out. I don’t wanna really call it disruption or anything else but I love innovation that comes in because you get like your phone bills and all those stuff until they start getting some disruptors coming to the place. You cranking out a ridiculous amount of money for a month for a damn cell phone bill until somebody comes in and really you can almost operate without a cellphone nowadays through different technologies and everything else so Neil Patel: My daddy has his Apple watch Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Right, how old is he's gonna have a couple of years on you Neil Patel: Yeah I think 67 Donnie Boivin: Now how insane is that, that a sixty-year-old guy is wearing an Apple watch Neil Patel: He's actually older he’s 68 Donnie Boivin: I mean put that in perspective my parents are in that same age range right. I remember growing up as a kid on a rotary phone right? Way back you know I'm 42, Growing up on a rotary phone, they've gone through the whole gambit of when cell phones first hit their head place to now, wearing Apple watches and everything else. It's almost like they've gone from through the footstones to The Jetsons Neil Patel: It’s crazy Donnie Boivin: You've got a lot of cool things like Ubersuggest, and Manychat is that the other one you have? Neil Patel: No that’s Larry Kim’s. Manychat is someone else, I use MobileMonkey Donnie Boivin: Mobilemonkey, ok. What else do you guys produce with your company? As far as other lead generation, what are the tools do you guys have? Neil Patel: That's mainly it for lead generation although we still need to click leads from it. We're just having a fun time blogging and educating from YouTube to podcasting like it's been a fun ride and I hope the next 30, 40 years years are as well. It’s crazy I was thinking sitting here I’m thinking about, ah s**t my dad’s getting old Donnie Boivin: (laughs) why don’t you give me your dad's email address I'm gonna send him a copy of this so he can hear that you on a large podcast just said he’s old as hell Neil Patel: ...I need to spend more time with him. Donnie Boivin: Lot of people know this who follow the show, this is really really cool so I have a farm in Texas, and I'm so far out the country I can't get internet access out there. For me to get internet access I've gotta put a 40 foot tower with a satellite dish on top of that to capture Line of Sight, so I actually do all my podcasts on my dad's farm in their cabin in their secondary room, which you see - the green screen behind me. So every morning on Fridays traditionally when I record these, I’ll get up and Mom will make me breakfast in the morning I'll record podcast all day and I'll finish every Friday with a beer with my old man. You know it's like the perfect day Neil Patel: That’s cool, you know what's funny my family we have a ranch in Missouri and I've always thought about moving there but I’m like the internet sucks... out there in the wilderness, no one's around you... there's peace and quiet but I'm like I need the internet Donnie Boivin: You know I tell you man, my wife and I have always joked that we live in a campsite. We have land and everything else but we so far out the country, you don't hear cars, you’ll hear the occasional plane flyover but it's awesome Neil Patel: I know the feeling when I get to my wife’s ranch, it takes me when I arrive on the ranch it takes me 40 minutes just to get to the house driving on a dirt road like no one's around you Donnie Boivin: That's so awesome Neil Patel: (inaudible) Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Right it's so awesome, so how do people get in touch with you, how do they reach out, how do they find out more about your internet stuff and all that fun stuff Neil Patel: Donnie Boivin: And why would people want to follow and consume the information that you're putting out? Neil Patel: To try to get more traffic, generate more revenue from your website all for free. There is no paid plans Donnie Boivin: So then I gotta ask what the hell is your revenue model? Neil Patel: We do have an ad agency and we have some other software companies that make money Donnie Boivin: Awesome, that's so awesome. Well brother here's how I like to wrap up every one of our shows, and I do stunt some people on this so get ready. If you were gonna leave the Champions who listen to this show, 78 countries around the world... If you were going to leave them with a quote, phrase, a saying, a mantra something they can take with them along their journey especially if they're stacked up against it and going through it. What would you say, remember this…? Neil Patel: So you're going on your journey you wanna succeed, you wanna do better in life I want you to remember one thing. Every good entrepreneur fails, what separates the good ones from the great ones is that the great ones learn from their mistakes and they avoid making the same ones over and over again. Now just for a minute think about that. If you as an entrepreneur make a mistake, and you learn from it and you don't make it again, and you make another 100, 2-300 mistakes and you don't make it over and over. Eventually that’ll just leave you with the stuff you should be doing. You don't have to be the smartest person in the world it's ok to make mistakes. You know look at me I'm not that smart, I did well because I learnt from my mistakes Donnie Boivin: That's awesome. Well man I really appreciate this you jumping in here and doing this with me man and hanging out I'm sure all the champions are gonna enjoy the hell out of this one. But honoured to have you on my friend, honoured to get to know you and if you're a drinker sometime when I'm in town I hit you up and we’ll grab a nice glass of rum of some sort or whatever you're into Neil Patel: Sounds good, thank you Donnie Boivin: Absolutely. Thanks for tuning in today, that was a fun conversation with Neil I really really enjoyed it, you know you really should come hang out with us. I run 2 Facebook groups, that are engaging as hell and a lot of fun to be a part of. One is called Donnie's Success Champions, and it's just a bunch of bad asses all going for it and climbing and leveling up in life. The other one is called So You Want To Podcast, in there we talk all about how to get into podcasting, launch a show, you know find some success, advertising - both these are free groups, so come and hang out with us and let's see if we can all rise together. Thanks guys, see you soon!
New York Times Best Selling Author of Push, Chalene Johnson is a lifestyle and business expert, motivational speaker, and podcast host. She and Bret, her husband of over twenty years, are the founders of the SmartLife movement. Today, with her husband, Chalene runs a fun loving, collaborative team focused on helping others live a healthier, more simplified life through their online academies, membership sites, and live, sold-out seminars. Chalene, with the help of top dietitians, doctors, researchers and experts, she founded the 131 Method and new Book - a nutritional program that’s turning the diet industry upside down. She hosts two top ranked podcasts, “The Chalene Show” and “Build Your Tribe” with over 1 millions monthly downloads, Huffington Post recognized Chalene as one of the “Top 50 Female Entrepreneurs to Watch.” Website – Twitter - @chalenejohnson Instagram – chalenejohnson SnapChat – chaleneofficial Push Journals - 131 Method - Show Transcribed Donnie Boivin: Alright guys, it’s gonna be another killer episode, i'm really looking forward - I know that a lot of you have been asking for me to get her on the podcast so I'm really excited To bring on Chalene Johnson to the show and let her tell us her story. I’m Donnie Boivin and this is Success Champions. Miss Chalene, welcome to the show my dear please tell us your story. Chalene Johnson: Well thank you so much for having me. Where do I begin right? Donnie Boivin: You know, you like long walks on the beach and… (both laugh) Chalene Johnson: Well I think probably much like you, most people know me from fitness. So I've had three number 1 fitness infomercials; the infomercial that’s on TV right now called PiYo. That’s the number 1 fitness infomercial, actually this week it was the number 1 infomercial over all categories. Donnie Boivin: Oh wow, good for you. Chalene Johnson: It was the number 1 infomercial in 2017... Donnie Boivin: Is that the whole, “but wait there’s more” thing? Chalene Johnson: Totally. Donnie Boivin: Alright, cool. Chalene Johnson: Yeah, i'm a student of those things. And I hosted it myself and filmed it myself on my iPhone. Donnie Boivin: Right now that’s killer, well done! Chalene Johnson: Yeah, thanks. Well the interesting story about it is, to kind of take listeners back for a little bit which is why I kind of said it’s odd to me that people know me from fitness... that’s just where i'm known, if you will but it’s not who I am. It's certainly not what I expected to have success. I've been a serial entrepreneur all my life. My first business, I started doing at age 15 informally. Flipping cars like buying used cars and fixing them up and having them painted and then reselling them and making enough money to be able to pay my way through college. While I was in college at Michigan State this turned out into a more legitimised business if you will and I rented a lot of land from the state of Michigan and I held these big; I guess you could call them almost fares where on a Saturday private owners would come in, they’d park their vehicles and they would be the sales person for their own vehicle and then private people who wanted to buy from a private individual would come to the lot as well and I used to take a cut on both ends and that was called the Michigan Auto Swap. Donnie Boivin: Fantastic. I gotta ask, so you were flipping cars to get through college? Chalene Johnson: Yes! Donnie Boivin: That had to be a hell of a pick up line at a bar, right? Or at a party or anything… living on flipping cars Chalene Johnson: Yeah, you know and we talked a little bit about my mindset before we started and that was my mindset was always like, “Ok, so this is the problem, I should solve this problem.“ And the beautiful thing about solving a problem is that it usually solves a problem for a lot of other people and then that becomes a business Donnie Boivin: Yeah Chalene Johnson: And so for me, being a 18 year old petite and 5’2 blonde girl living in Michigan, mof my transactions were in Detroit. So I would drive down there, you know by myself with a purse full of cash to look at a title in some strange dude’s apartment in like the worst part of Detroit, it just wasn’t safe. It wasn’t convenient, it was a hassle, people make an appointment to see your vehicle and then they cancel. They show up and they’re shady. So for me it was like a convenience, like I can do this all in one day. I can look at a tonne of vehicles and this would be a convenience to the buyers who were also trying to get directions to go see someone’s vehicle. We didn't have cell phones then so we were solving a problem at the time and that kind of led to my each and every business after that. I was like ok, everyone in my family is obese on both sides or overweight I should say, struggle with their weight and I don't want to be that and they all diet. So dieting must NOT be the solution, i'm going to exercise. But I hate exercise? So I started creating these really cool, kind of funky workouts that took music and sound effects, and hip hop, and taekwondo and I kind of blended them all together and solved my problem and eventually, it solved a lot of other people’s problems. But I didn't get into that because I was an expert in fitness, or in nutrition, or diet or kinesiology. I got into it because I was solving my problem. Donnie Boivin: That’s awesome, you got a Billy Blanks Taebo back in the day kind of vibe… with the punching, kicking and everything else workout so… Chalene Johnson: Yeah, totally. And I really tried to capitalise to be honest, on that craze because it was at the time the number 1 fitness craze. I developed a program for health clubs called Turbo Kick, this is in 1999. And eventually I started teaching other fitness instructors how to teach this format, we grew to have certified over 60 000 fitness instructors. In I don’t know how many countries. Eventually that caught on to major health clubs, now all the major health clubs all around the world and at the time because Turbo was such a huge cultural success, all the infomercial companies were looking for the next program that didn't require equipment... Donnie Boivin: Right, right. Chalene Johnson: it was just timing and business savvy and we just started getting phone calls from infomercial companies that were interested in bringing what I was doing for fitness clubs and wanted to bring that to consumers. Donnie Boivin: Well thank you for number 1, not bringing another piece of equipment in the house that people are hanging their clothes on. You know so, you should know people buy all that crap and it ends up in some corner of the house and so, that’s awesome, So you literally go from hustling cars, flipping cars - excuse me Chalene Johnson: I know, I was hustling. Donnie Boivin: Right, right. To developing a huge swap meeting for cars, to a fitness craze then to slowly I understand building an empire… Chalene Johnson: Well you know, it’s always just taken on it’s normal progression if you will, except that I think it’s important to say that because I never intended to be in fitness and I always attributed my success not to my knowledge on fitness but my knowledge of business so I always felt really insecure around “the fitness industry”. I kept thinking they were going to call me and ask for my credential and so I got certified by I don’t know, probably like 20 different organisations because I wanted to over qualify. I was so insecure about the fact that I didn't belong there and then there came a point where I had so much success where people knew me for fitness, that I was defensive and angry about it because I was like, “it's not who I am…’ i'm here to because I understand people and I understand solving problems and there’s a point at which I became resentful and also uncomfortable with the fact that, that’s what I was known for Donnie Boivin: Yeah, that’s interesting because I find this quite often with entrepreneurs is that they get this natural gnat of constantly creating something, doing something, they’re always fiddling, what's the next thing, what's moving forward but they always seem to get slammed in some success from niche, right? That’s a lot of what the brand becomes. It's an interesting conundrum So you didn't start flipping cars until you were 18... Chalene Johnson: No, I started at like 15. Donnie Boivin: Okay, alright - younger. Where does the entrepreneurial bug come from? I'm always curious about where people start getting the end of the game. Was it a lemonade stand, was it the mowing lawns, was it selling girl scout cookies and or was there a moment where you were like ok, I got to start making money? Chalene Johnson: Yeah, I don’t know about you i've interviewed 100s of entrepreneurs and I often find that they were either raised by an entrepreneur or influenced by someone; someone’s father was an entrepreneur. For me that was, and I know your story is a little bit late if i'm not mistaken... Donnie Boivin: Yeah, yeah it is. I'm a late bloomer, it took me ‘til forty so… (laughs) Chalene Johnson: ...that’s awesome. For me it was being raised by my father; my mom and dad. My father was an entrepreneur and a really positive money mindset so the people out there listening who have children… things he never said, they never said like, “Money doesn't grow on trees”; “We can't afford that.” My parents would say well, if that's what you want that's exciting. Let’s put together a plan and you can figure out a way to earn that and once you earn it you can decide if that's what you want to spend your money on And so it never crossed my mind that my parents must buy me a car, or buy me clothes or anything. From the time I was about in 6th grade I didn't ask for even lunch money, maybe out of a sense of guilt? I just believed that oh, whatever it is I want, I can figure out a way to be resourceful; to rake lawns, to flip cars, to do whatever... work at my dad’s store to make my own money and find a way. It was always a “find a way” kind of attitude and even when I said I wanted to go to college at that point. I neither knew I’d decide to go to college, we certainly didn't have the money for it and so it was just not a big deal. My dad said this is a great idea, let's figure out a way for you to make more money. And it was his idea to take the money I’d saved and go to the state auction and buy a used vehicle and flip it. Donnie Boivin: Oh that's amazing, I think a lot of parents… I dont have kids so, but being around my nieces, nephews and a lot of other kids I often see that the kids are a direct reflection of their parent right? So if the parents have money problems like you said, the kids are a direct reflection, you know? So it’s pretty powerful that your parents instilled that sense of, “if you need it go get it”, “if you need it done figure it out.” Chalene Johnson: It certainly created problems for me later in terms of being a workaholic and in a very serious sense like, nearly destroyed my marriage and me emotionally because having gone through some dark times, with that I was able to break the belief; the false belief that I didn't have value or purpose unless I was making people money. That's what I was known for, so if I had a failure it meant I personally was a failure and that I'd let people down and you know, you have to have a lot of failure to have success and that was hard to take. Donnie Boivin: You know what’s is interesting is I think a lot of people who have the entrepreneurial bug or they have this entrepreneurial business owner vibe, they go for the stuff right? Meaning they go through the accolades, the “atta boys” of people going you're awesome, you're amazing or they go for the over the top cars, houses, mansions... you know something along the lines of that, why do you think that is? Chalene Johnson: Can I tell you what like really bugs me? Donnie Boivin: What’s that? Chalene Johnson: I think and maybe you can answer this for me ‘cause I notice a lot of male entrepreneurs do this, they have 5 Lamborghinis in their driveway and they’re like walking onto their private plane... I'm sorry but it looks douchey to me like I just don't get that but I know this couple that do that, and they’re not like that right? Do you know what I mean? Donnie Boivin: It comes from the locker room right, so you’re in the locker room with all the guys hanging out; it's the flexing the muscle; if I look like a badass then I'm a badass nobody's gonna mess with type thing? Prison yard, if you’re the baddest dude in town nobody's gonna mess with you and so ok when you get accolades and you get the success that most people don't, so people are like oh that dudes got it Chalene Johnson: I always think, oh they’re renting those... Donnie Boivin: A lot of them are and a lot of it’s coming out nowadays, B&B mansions and all the jet and the other BS is coming with it which is cool to see Chalene Johnson: But no judgement I mean I for sure had my thing and I think it comes from a sense of inadequacy and so I needed to prove to people that I was of value, I needed to create value for them and it wasn’t the money for me and I would give it away. It was me being to be the top salesperson, it was me being able to pay for things for other people; or to give them to give them sales or to do well for others... the money was like a scorecard and where I felt like I was scoring I didn't realise until later, was my worth Donnie Boivin: The accolades was a way you felt by making other people feel good or whatever else along that journey. Why do you think it went that direction vs the stuff? Chalene Johnson: Oh I know why because I figured when I went to therapy, for me my parents when I was in like I think maybe 4th or 5th grade my father was a liquidator so what he did was go into bankruptcy court and buyout businesses that were on the brink of disaster or maybe there losing 30 locations and he would liquidate the assets. It was in Detroit, it was cutthroat it wasn't the most I guess upscale people that he was dealing with, it was kinda shady and I remember they got their big - my parents got their big deal ever... they got this chain or a bunch of locations in a chain were closing, they purchased the assets and all of the assets were in a warehouse and he spent his last dime to make this deal happen and someone set fire to the building and they didn't have the assets. So my dad in an effort to teach me about money I remember him bringing me into his office and closing the door and having me sit down in his big leather office chair and he said to me that this is your bank book, it was my little blue bank book and he said I'm gonna teach you today how your money make you money. So you know that your mom and I have had this fire we're gonna be ok, we're gonna be ok but what I'd like to do with your permission is borrow your money and we’re gonna do is pay you back more. I know that was a lesson in interest but when you're like in 4th and 5th grade that felt like I was responsible right now for my parents… Donnie Boivin: Right Chalene Johnson: And felt a little bit like a hero and a lot of pressure, a lot of weight but because there was so much like praise and recognition and I was the oldest child. I was the child they went to and borrowed her money so it just installed in me a false belief, it wasn't at all his intentions, his intentions were positive. You know how people, children again interpret things and that's how I interpreted it and I held on to that message unknowingly until, my addiction to work just nearly killed me. I was sleeping like 3-4 hrs a night because there is always more to do, it was always great and I was always you know, because the more you do the more opportunities are for failure and that failure was so personal so I just never ever stopped trying to - as you said Donnie come up with that and tinker with that next new thing Donnie Boivin: And I question people who are like serial entrepreneurs that continue to go for it, my question is why do they have to continue to push themselves to the brink of finding rock bottom before they start making the change? Chalene Johnson: Well, they don't really don't know you and I used to think like this is something everyone has to go through because you're right I have heard many people’s stories where they get to that point and then they realise that ok it doesn’t have to be this way, that's another way to do it and I learnt from someone who was a workaholic. I have taught my children both you have their own businesses the right way and to see them succeed and have the success that they’ve had and balance and they know how to outsource, they know how to use additional help, and they know what it means to be out of balance. So I think it's just there's no school really fit for entrepreneurs you can't say business school really is a place to learn anything about business Donnie Boivin: Well I don't think you can teach entrepreneurs, I think you can tell somebody that you can start a business, go get punched in the face and then you can learn. You can teach them finance and everything else but it takes the individual person, in my opinion I mean everything I thought of what an entrepreneur meant prior to being one was absolutely wrong. Then launching my own business, it wasn’t until I started blowing s*** up and things started breaking and chaos ensued where it was, ok I gotta figure the s*** out. Chalene Johnson: So the only way you can actually teach somebody to be an entrepreneur, I don't know… I’ve met with lots of young people who are at the beginning stages of starting a business and have been able to teach them the things I wish I'd known that would have helped me to avoid that bottomless pit. Yeah obviously my kids have been raised in it so I was really conscientious of the messaging that we were sending to them, how we talked about business and a person's value and their identity; which has lead me to the piece of my entrepreneurial life, my professional life that I'm not as well known for is the lifestyles which is way more than selling a bajillion, tens of millions of DVDs cut People know you, it’s really small cut like you don't get rich from doing really TV but everybody knows you. You know me from fitness but what's really made our lifestyle possible and what really fulfills me is the businesses that we started back in the mid-2000s where we were teaching people how to be smart entrepreneurs and have smart success and not stressed success. And there is a methodology to teaching that and it really starts with the mindset and understanding that if you have your foundational pieces and you understand the significance and importance of growing your dream, by growing your team and how to start like how do you hire the first person for 5 hours a week, who is that person, how you hire them and how do you help people adopt that mindset before they even need the person Before making money and so I do believe it's possible and it is my wish that people - because a lot of people are turning into entrepreneurs today. Amazon makes it possible, Shopify, so many marketplace websites have made it easy for someone to jump in with an idea, grab a domain name for 9 dollars, start a business tonight and start making passive income online. My objective is I want help people to understand that there's a right way and a really stressed out, needless way to do it. Donnie Boivin: Well and I love that and it’s truly cool to hear you put it in that regard because I'm constantly telling people look, if you want to build a business go punch yourself in the face 20 times and then start. (laughs) Chalene Johnson: That’s your way. Donnie Boivin: Because look, no matter what you’re gonna take a licking you’re gonna screw something up. It's a matter of in the words of my favourite quote my fans are gonna laugh because I say this quote all the damn time. Rocky Balboa, “It's not about how hard you can hit but how hard you can take a hit and keep moving forward.” And I think maybe that's more my point of trying to teach somebody that takes that hit and keep ploughing forward. In society we’re brought up, most people are you know... what everybody else thinks about them is what matters most in their in life. Turning off that noise or like gremlin you hear is tough for people to really really really do. Most people don't have that tenacity and grit to keep pushing forward when life stacks up against them so, good on you for creating a safe environment for people to fail and have encouragement around them you know to keep moving forward with what they want Chalene Johnson: Yeah, and steps right? Like so it's it's helpful to have, like they say success leaves clues and actually will leave a blueprint for you. Most successful people will tell you exactly what they did wrong and what they did right and you should listen to them. Take into consideration of course the time because when your mentor or the person who you admire when they built their business if it was it was even 5 years ago - listen to the things they have to say when you hear entrepreneurs say this is what I wish I would have done differently, listen because that's a pretty big clue. Donnie Boivin: Well a buddy of mine, Wally Carmichael runs the Man Of Abundance podcast, one of the favourite things he ever said to me he goes, “Don't listen to the guys like Gary Vee now, go listen to what he did 10 years ago as he was building his empire... listen. I’m glad you’re running slightly opposite on the spectrum to him Chalene Johnson: Yeah, i’ve had him on my show and went head-to-head. Donnie Boivin: I'm sure because he's gonna put people in an early grave, so you know I mean there's 17… Chalene Johnson: I know, you know there’s some females doing that too now... Donnie Boivin: Well I'll work on getting them on the show so I can battle them as well because I'm on your team girl because I own a farm.Thursday afternoons at noon, days done I'm home working on the farm. That was just a plan before I start my business, that we built this life for the two of us. Oh now that doesn't say that we haven't had our struggles along the way figuring stuff out but we winning the game today not being the workaholic, you can find a cool life without killing yourself along the way Chalene Johnson: Yeah Donnie Boivin: So I'm really more interested in the business side of things so what are all the businesses you actually have? Chalene Johnson: Oh that's an interesting question, it's multiple streams of income it slowly evolve... sometimes I fear triggering that people to need to do more when I share with people like all the different streams of income that we had so I want to preface it by saying it's something that we built piece by piece, one piece at a time... Donnie Boivin: Can I say one thing in there really quick? Chalene Johnson: Sure Donnie Boivin: Guys, get it right before you start the second one Chalene Johnson: That's right. Donnie Boivin: Go ahead, go ahead… Chalene Johnson: For sure. And then give it time too so that you can really get it right and tweak it and fix it and then enjoy it and then once it starts to become a little more of passive… passive income, little less work and you are intrigued by another area - I never go eating because of real money makers. It’s this is what I'm passionate about and my husband I'm fortunate enough that he loves that I get geeked up and obsessed with things and that's right when he just sets up orange cones so no one gets hurt along the way but if you're really, really passionate about something… Someone said to me the other day like you're always reinventing yourself and I didn’t reinvent myself at all but I fell in my passion Donnie Boivin: I would say you’re evolving. Becoming a better version of yourself... Chalene Johnson: We always are and I don't worry about how does this fit with my brand, it's just this is what i’m obsessed with right now. So we sold our fitness businesses to the fitness giants Beachbody, I don't know like, years ago but I still partner with them Beachbody on consumer projects... Donnie Boivin: Smart, on their part Chalene Johnson: Haha, thank you. And so then addition to that my husband and I have served thousands and thousands of entrepreneurs, now hundreds of thousands through a couple of different courses one is called the Marketing Impact Academy and it’s an all online basically virtual mentorship program we teach people how to go from idea to making money and giving them that financial freedom, like the freedom of their schedule and teaching them that blueprint because most people do it in all the wrong ways. We teach them to start with their brand, and then to build the platform and then how to really drive sales in every way whether it’s paid ads, video infomercial, Facebook, Instagram and social you name it. There's a formula that people feel like they're serving and not selling and that's probably been and it has been our bread and butter that has been a great joy for us, it's been so fun. Teaching people and giving people that freedom and then aside from that I’ve written a couple of books, one’s a New York Times bestseller and coming out on April 16 that all about how to get healthy and happy and confident from the inside out using nutrition; it's a book it's designed to help people lose weight but to lose weight and keep it off the right way because weight-loss shouldn't be so difficult and I got thrust into that industry kind of by accident. I just got caught up in the diet and fitness culture, something I didn't know much about but I like I start that book off with an apology because I really didn't take the depth of my responsibility as seriously as I should have. I've just regurgitated what everybody else was saying without ever asking if there’s really science around this? Is it really good for us? Should we be doing this? My own health suffered in that industry and I watch so many other people suffer from things like orthorexia and just depleting their body fat so low that they were experiencing amenorrhea and just and never feeling good enough and of course we know what everyone's always known that 95% diets don't work. But it does work, right? So when we say that but that's well then why is everyone around on a diet? Well everyone’s on a diet because it does work but if you are you finding success by weight loss and ignoring the fact that everyone gains it back so I went to discover by working with a scientist is if there’s a way to master your metabolism so that you can be healthy and you can be at the way you’re supposed to be but not be a slave to food and fitness and not feel like certain things have to be ruled out forever. It was part of a process that I had to go through and I was so passionate about it like I said to my husband this is direction we're going in now because I have an obligation, a responsibility to get this right Donnie Boivin: And I love the rawness behind the starting of with the apology, what I truly respect about that is I think a lot of people go and they're doing the Lamborghini, they’re doing the big houses,they are saying look how awesome I am - you just said you started off let me tell you how I screwed it all up. That's beautiful because I'm excited I have a book fiction finally coming out that i’ve been working on and I think it’s going to be shock for the people that know me cause I'm actually walking through how I always thought I was a whole lot more successful than I was and I'm breaking down you know the self sabotaging and you know, how I was trying to put myself on a pedestal and all that's all but, I love that starting out that way because I think you're going to impact some more lives by saying hey you see me as this, let me show you how I really am Chalene Johnson: Yes I tell the story about how on one of the the infomercial, I found you know along the way I'm making a few enemies because I'm telling the dirty dark secrets behind the fitness industry but we have to because you see those people on Instagram myself included, and you go #goals I want that body but to get into the state that like for example that I was at my absolute leanest… which I had a producer call my husband and say hey for this next series it would really help sales if she could get extra lean and at that point my body fat was already so low that I wasn't getting my period and I was already working out two and a half hours a day and barely eating any food Donnie Boivin: So disgusting, I mean... sorry it's f****** nuts, why? Chalene Johnson: Yeah, yeah... and because I wasn't telling anyone this and I didn't have to do this I could have to turn down the project so I take responsibility there I didn't have to do it but because I was like yeah I don't wanna get kicked out of this club I want this opportunity I'll just exercise more - 4 hours isn't that bad. I‘ll eat less and I literally if I eat I'm ashamed like I have shame around what I was eating which is virtually nothing and so bad, so processed and disgusting just barely sustaining on any food in order to drop without those extra pounds in the most unhealthy way and then here I am such a hypocrite, smiling in the video saying, “you guys just 30 mins a day,’ bulls***. That wasn't true and it wasn’t that I was lying to the consumer, I wanna be clear about that I write this in the book ,131 method. It believed what I was saying, I just didn't believe it was ever going to be possible for me because I believed I was broken, I was floored, that I destroyed my metabolism. What I didn't realise until later on, was that all of us were doing that. Nobody could do that and in 30 minutes a day and eating tons of food every 2 hours... nobody was doing that and it wasn't until I had my own health scare with my brain health. I had a brain scan at the Amen Clinics and they ran a nutrition panel on there, a hormone panel and they said I got a failing grade. So I'm on TV about these number 1 fitness programs, I have millions of people doing my programs and following what I'm saying and my health is getting a failing score. What have I done? What have I done to myself and what have I done to other people by being negligent and not listening to my own intuition, not doing some research. Why are we telling people this? Is it founded, do we know? Is this the right thing to do or I was just trying to sell things? I literally on that day just walked away mentally, I didn't tell anyone I was just like I'm not gonna do this to my kids. I've done this to myself and I've got to figure this out Donnie Boivin: That's awesome you know, and I hope people are hearing this because I think nowadays a lot of people are regurgitating all the things they are hearing on social media. There's so much out right now and so people are giving advice to some other guru who’s just got whatever jackass method going on, so they’re regurgitating it versus going through it and see if it f****** works. Chalene Johnson: Amen. Another thing is, you and I both talked about entrepreneurs that are selling that “drive yourself into the ground” mentality, you've got to look at their whole life. I was saying when you pick a mentor look at all the areas of their lives. If they're on their fifth marriage, they’ve never been to one of of their kids’ events, they might have all the things but it's pretty clear they’re a tortured individual. Running from something, they have to be on a plane, they have to tell you how things are doing, have to tell you about their accolades, they have to flex, there's a reason why. Don't get caught up in that because it will not bring you happiness Donnie Boivin: I think what you said, to watch the entire story because just because you watched one video; that’s not a story. Go watch a couple and go see and you'll see after the guy does a 1 minute walk in front of the Lamborghini and the next minute in front of a crowd and he's not that machismo, “over the top” guy is the biggest one that I see. The newest trend that I'm starting to see is a fake cry Chalene Johnson: I haven't seen too much of that yet, looking forward to it (laughs) Chalene Johnson: When we are done, can you tell me who to go watch? Donnie Boivin: Yeah, absolutely. It's just funny because of the content nation screaming together content content content, they're not wrong. You need to put out a ton of content out but you need to put out a real story. The one thing I do like about Gary Vee that he does say is, document your life. That’s the thing right now, take people on a journey with you, I struggle with a lot of the other stuff... Chalene Johnson: You know, listen when I had him on my show, we both respect him obviously. But what I heard - if I can break him down like I'm his therapist, I met a guy who didn't get his dad's attention in his formative years... his dad was working. Donnie Boivin: And you hear it, he's like his dad drug him into it and here we go again breaking down Gary Vee, his dad drug him into the liquor store and that kind of stuff you know? It's funny to listen to those guys talk because he always says he won the lottery with his parents and I sometimes wonder when he says that phrase is he trying to convince himself or us? Chalene Johnson: Oh, yeah… or is he trying to convince his own son? Donnie Boivin: Right, right? So you gotta look at that all the way through, it's just to see where - it's funny I have a group on Facebook and my family's in there and I got a bunch of smartass brothers, my dad I mean everybody in my family. If you don't have thick skin you just don't walk around the family Chalene Johnson: Perfect Donnie Boivin: And when I first joined the group and we were hanging out I thought, oh snap everybody's gonna meet the family. How is that gonna represent my brand as I'm out there in the marketplace and now... people are feeding my family ammunition to bust my chops even more so like the whole family is in it for the ride, which is a lot of fun. I think you do for people who will look at how people are treating the marketplace, how they talk about their family, how they're talking about the things they are doing, it's gonna paint a picture of their life and their journey along. Chalene Johnson: And not everyone has that a perfect family situation and that's ok too but I just think that Donnie I think mainly what we both saying is, you gotta be authentic and if you try to copy someone else's formula in terms of what their life looks like, now what you gonna do is rent up a bunch of white Lamborghinis, now what you gonna do stand in front of somebody else’s yacht, that's just gonna blow up in your face and I think we're getting to a place where we”re too savvy for it What does concern me, two areas that I just realised right now on this podcast that we are ok with these areas being addictive. Like if you have a gambling addiction, that's a bad thing. If you have a drug addiction, that's a bad thing. But if you are addicted to exercise, or if you’re addicted to health, or addicted to business; those things we commend and we celebrate. We celebrate the ultra fit, we celebrate the ultra successful, but at the end of the day if you are doing it because you can't be present in your real life whatever it is - whether it's, you're addicted to running or you're addicted to business if it's something that you are doing to distract you from being present - it's an addiction and as damaging as an addiction to opioid, gambling or anything else... they can still destroy marriages At the end of the day what makes us happy is not money or things, it's people. Donnie Boivin: Yeah, you know it's funny to hear you say that. My most downloaded episode i’ve ever done is called, “You can't run away from you.” And I just tell my story of me growing up and when times and life got tough I moved and went somewhere else, I went to join the Marine Corps, I went up to Saint Louis you know all the way through and it was because it was my form of escapism. Everytime it got tough i got the f*** out. And I think everybody kind of has that escapism outlet, and for some people like you're saying it's business. Having a healthy love of business and growing and creating those worlds is a lovely thing - as long as you doing it as you said, not escape from something else. Chalene Johnson: Keeping ourselves in check... Donnie Boivin: Yeah, absolutely. It's gonna be fun someday sharing the stage with you by the way Chalene Johnson: (laughs) Well thank you. Yeah, I hope you like to dance Donnie Boivin: Well you know I'm a traditional country white dude, so if you'd seen the movie Hitch - this is my move, that's all I got Chalene Johnson: Okay, perfect Donnie Boivin: And if my wife even saw me do that much, she would be laughing right now because she knows how bad of a dancer I am. So where is this journey taking you? You've got all kinds of cool things going on, you had a bad ass journey and I love the self discovery that has happened too much power in you sharing that real side of your story for some of the listeners that are going through the same... So where is this taking you? Donnie Boivin: For me it’s about helping people to be healthy and health is not just fitness and nutrition, it is taking a look at every part of your lifestyle and figuring out how you can improve it because then you improve that, you improve your confidence and it makes people around you happy and that's really what this 131 method, what this book is about. Helping people understand how you become an expert of yourself. You have to become aware, you have to become aware of what you’re running from, what you’re putting in your body, how it’s affecting you, looking long term at how do you live, how do you want to show up for your kids? What kind of energy do you want to have? Do you want to be held hostage by your job? By the food that you are no longer supposed to eat or somebody else's food rules? Do you want to be held hostage by a body or how you feel about your body/? Do you want to have optimal health? That is how we improve our confidence. When we improve our confidence we treat other people better, we take more risks, we bounce back quicker, we have a resilience and it just trickles down to other people in our lives and it's those relationships that make us healthy and make us happy. So me at the moment it's trying to deliver a kind of whole person approach to being healthy and happy. Donnie Boivin: I love it, I have two theories I I wanna run by you quick. The first one, I don't think anyone has a confidence issue. Bear with me one second, I think they have an experience issue. I think that a lot of times people are afraid to do X, whatever X is. It's like riding a bike for the first time you might fall and skin your knees but you get back on the bike and you ride. And once you are able to ride a bike, you have all the confidence in the world. So I think most times people are not lacking in confidence, they are lacking in experience of that thing they don't feel confident in. Chalene Johnson: Yeah, so if I'm hearing you correctly you're saying at the root cause - if you’re trying to fix your confidence, build evidence file of more experience so you know oh wow I survived it and I’m better for it so therefore I have more confidence in myself Donnie Boivin: Love that word; evidence file. That’s cool. I love that. The second one is not mine and I'll give the accolades to whoever said it, they said this phrase quit listening to yourself and start talking to yourself. It was an interesting context for me because I know my self-talk growing up wasn’t always positive, not always pushing in the right to regard, it was constantly I'm not good enough. People don't always verbalize that but through the years as I started changing the story and changing the dialogue. Like when I watch my business, kept saying that I'm not a good business owner, I don't know how to do all this. So that became a self-fulfilling prophecy on a regular basis, I wasn't good enough Chalene Johnson: Right! Donnie Boivin: But once I started saying I'm a business owner, I run a top of the world podcast you know, all of that… things started dramatically changing. So I love this new thought process of quit listening to yourself, start talking to yourself Chalene Johnson: Yeah, I mean you know mindset determines the outcome, If you believe something is going to fail, it will. If you believe you were meant to be overweight, uncomfortable, not attractive, you will. But if you also believe that it's possible, if you just give yourself permission to believe and see that it's possible then things start to change. Making those tiny shifts in our mindset and anybody can change their mindset, anyone can change their beliefs. The beautiful thing is you weren't born with these beliefs, you developed them. So you can develop new beliefs and improve your mindset Donnie Boivin: I love that and I love that you said mindset because I hate the phrase If you think it, you can become it and here’s why: I told this to a friend once upon a time, and he goes look my brother is 6’6 and his 400 lbs, he's never gonna be a jockey I don't care how many times he wants to be a jockey. So it's not how you can become anything you want to be, it’s you can change your mindset about anything you want to change your mindset about, which is huge. Chalene Johnson: Yeah, for sure Donnie Boivin: Well this has been an absolute blast, I have really enjoyed this. Chalene Johnson: Thank you! You too, I actually don't mind I appreciate it Donnie Boivin: So here's how I like to wrap up every episode - before we do that how does everybody find you? I know you got tons of fans all over the world but how does everybody find you real quick? Chalene Johnson: They can go to or Instagram, it's probably where i’m the most active - i’m Chalene Johnson Donnie Boivin: Awesome, beautiful. So here's how I like to wrap up every episode, If you could leave the champions who listen to this show, with a quote; a phrase; a mantra; a saying something they can take with them on a journey, especially when they’re stacked up against it, going through… what would be that quote or phrase you would say, remember this? Chalene Johnson: Your track record thus far is 100%, so you gotta believe in yourself. You’ve survived everything else up ‘til this point; you’ll survive this too. Donnie Boivin: I love that, that's a first I haven't heard that one before. Well done Chalene Johnson: Well thanks! Donnie Boivin: So, darling thank you so much for coming on this show. What an absolute pleasure. Chalene Johnson: Absolutely, thank you so much Donnie the pleasure is mine, getting to know you and I appreciate the opportunity to get to talk to you, spend some time talking to you and get to know your people Donnie Boivin: Absolutely!
Angie Leigh Monroe is an International Speaker, Strategist and Consultant whose expertise guides people to identify and obliterate obstacles. Her innovate approach will ALIGN you with strategic partnerships, ACTIVATE your purpose and CALIBRATE your potential to encounter even more opportunities. She a has founded: Angie Leigh Monroe, Inc which is the parent company for her consulting and speaking business as well as her legacy projects. D.I.V.A.S. Impact - Which Empowers and Equips a global community of women change-agents making a positive impact in the world we live in. Veteran DIVAS – Which Empowers and Equips veteran women as they tackle the next big thing in their life. Angie is a native Texan, Navy veteran and Executive Director with the John Maxwell Team. This year she celebrates 27 years of marriage to her husband Michael who she met while in the Navy, they have 3 children and 2 grandchildren as well as several other bonus kids who call them family! Episode 199 Donnie Boivin: So I got a buddy Chad King that told me I need to talk to Angie, so we’re finally getting her on the show. I harassed her a little bit and she agreed to come on. Looking forward to this so Chad I owe you one I’ll probably buy you a beer next time I see you. I’m Donnie Boivin and this is Success Champion - Angie Monroe; welcome to the show dear please, please tell us your story. Angie Monroe: Well thank you for having me, I absolutely love Chad and his wife Shelly. I grew up with them so we knew each other prior to the military. And then he went to the marines and I went to the navy after high school. I think we both were just trying to find our ways. We both had things we were great at in our younger youth, but we still just wanted something that's a little bit more. And I think I see something in my friend Chad that I resonate with is, he wants to be significant in his journey through life. He is really always out there networking and investing in worthy causes and being a part of the community around him and I love that because that's what I was raised with. My dad was a police officer in our local town, my mom worked for the government and that's why we joke that I had to go halfway around the world and into the military to find a husband because nobody would marry me with a dad that was a police officer and a mom that worked for the government. So I found a West Virginian hillbilly and CB in the navy and we got married and started our family. I really came out of the military struggling to find my identity, I was great at being an aircraft mechanic and I loved that but that didn't translate too well with mommy playgroups. Other women just didn't resonate with that. I don't understand why they just can't get along with a girl that's used to throwing wrenches at people because they're talking back to ‘em or that can change a generator in less than 30 minutes on a P3; they just didn't get me. And I was really struggling with finding that place to belong. I worked for a local church in the Dallas Fort Worth area, I had a woman's pastor come up to me one day and say, “Why aren't you in a life group?” I said because there isn't one that fits my schedule, there isn't one that fits my lifestyle, there just isn't one that's good for me. Then she goes, “Well maybe if you can't find what you’re looking for, others can't find what they're looking for and maybe you just need to create it.” Donnie Boivin: Well when you give a new veteran a task and you're kind of like hold my beer and watch this, right? Angie Monroe: Exactly. First off, I told her I didn't like her very much; Second off I don't need another thing on my plate. I was the mom, my husband works 24/7 as an on-call commercial plumber. What he did in the navy translated into his work life but I worked umpteen hours and I was constantly shuffling kids outside of work, there was nothing that fit my lifestyle. So I started sending out little daily inspirations to my group of girls I then worked with because I could see and I could hear them all feeling some of the same things I was feeling. Maybe not the same specific things but they were all feeling disconnected and not able to connect with women in real life. So I just started doing little daily inspirations, that little daily inspiration email list grew and grew and grew and grew to where finally I was asked to not to send it from the church anymore because it was crashing the servers. So then I was like what do I do, this was over 10 years ago. I kind of pushed pause for a little bit, “Ok that didn't really go as I expected, how do I get where I want to go?” And I kept seeing Real Housewives of wherever, Girls Behaving Badly; The Bad Girls Club and I'm like I don't relate to any of them. They're great psychology studies but they're not really great for building long-term sustainable relationships and they're not really people I want to put on an idol. Then I started talking to other women and they’re like, “Yeah, we just don't know how to be good girlfriends anymore. We're too busy with our own lives and consumed with our own lives to be good girlfriends and we get made fun of by the guys because they just see the surface level.“ And I said, “Well, we can't fix what the guys see until we fix what we see.” Donnie Boivin: True, well said. Angie Monroe: We really just started talking with a whole bunch of women, I travelled across the country for a year talking with women in all walks of life. Professional and Fortune 500 company women, all the way down to girls that are going from highschool to college and getting their first job and asking what it is they were missing in their lives and that birthed our organisation called DIVAS Impact. DIVAS Impact stands for: Destined, Inspired, Victorious, Accountable Sister and making a positive impact in the world. Just recently rolled out our Veteran DIVAS Tribe because we realised that our women that have served our country have some special and unique things that have happened to them and working alongside brother's like you... somethings are great and some things are not so great. Little so-and-so that goes to church with me will not understand the things that I went through. Donnie Boivin: Or all the things that come out of your mouth (laughs). Angie Monroe: Right, the random pops in my head that pop out, they don't understand why I was so violent when I was in the military and I'm like it wasn't being violent it was being toe-to-toe to and not backing down, that was a sign of weakness. Donnie Boivin: I mean at that point you were kind of like being a dude with long hair because you had to. Angie Monroe: Exactly, that's how you had to be accepted and I was a girl's worst enemy when I was in the military. If a girl wanted to come into our shop and work at our shop I was much harder on them than any of the guys were. Donnie Boivin: That makes sense. This is fun, you go and do the whole navy thing I'll try not to hold that against you too much Angie Monroe: That's alright, I know your department of the navy. Donnie Boivin: Absolutely, the men's department. Angie Monroe: Men's department, I love that (laughs). Donnie Boivin: You’re an aircraft mechanic, that's fun. I was a Motor T mechanic when I was in the cooler and you guys had a hell of a lot more fun playing with planes and we getting put on trucks. We just drank a little bit more but you go through that and the transition process, a lot of people in the military do. I love how you started off, I went to the military because I didn't know what the hell I wanted to do when I grow up, right? That just seemed like the next move. But you get out of the military and you are more still in the same spot, now what? I love the fact that you've gone through that and you figure it out through process of elimination if you will, you're kind of role in life but I also like that somebody kind of said hey, do this and it helped you figure it out. I'm curious if they wouldn't have said hey and you do this, do you think you'd be where you are right now? Angie Monroe: It would be really interesting to find out if I would, just simply because I'm a strong personality... Donnie Boivin: Nooo... (both laugh) Angie Monroe: girl that manages the office here for me, she even made the comment that's like you intimidate me at times. She's a strong girl, she's an athlete; she went on college to be an athlete she can hold her own but she told me you intimidate me at times. And I realise that. It also take another woman just as strong if not stronger than me to say that to me. If anybody else had said that to me it would have gone in one ear and out the other but because of the weight that this woman carries with her presence and with her authority. It was going to eat away at me for the rest of my life if I didn't do something, you know. Then I start realising the thing I was looking for was working with women, which created a whole other issue because I didn't like women. Donnie Boivin: Yeah, as I said. Angie Monroe: Normally where your greatest calling is, the area where you need the most work in. (both laugh) Angie Monroe: That was biggest hurdle right there. Donnie Boivin: It's funny I do a lot of private coaching and and most of my clientele are women as well and I don't know why, it's just how it worked out and I've had a couple of them say why don't you do this group coaching session. And I said, “Have you ever put a bunch of alpha women in one room? Yeah, it doesn't usually go very well because it'll take you 4 days to get through the hand pecking order right before everybody gets settled down.” How did you take that strong alpha personality and be able to handle the none alphas? Angie Monroe: The part I didn't realise, the part that took me by surprise is how many people sit back and watch. They don't say anything, they don't interact; they just watch. Then when they want, when they need; when their back is against the wall they'll come to you. And they come to you because you've already proven yourself through them watching you. One of my favourite stories is 4 years ago I was speaking and Los Angeles, a lady came in and she was at an appointment in the building or something like that but she heard me speaking from the stage and so she just kind of wandered into the event. I was handing out cards and stuff like that and she took 1 and several months later I get a phone call and it's over Facebook Messenger and I'm like what in the world is going on. Facebook Messenger comes up, I answer it. I didn't even know you can make calls on Facebook Messenger at the time, it was such a new thing. I answer it and I hear screaming in the background. The lady is being attacked by her spouse, we were able to get her location - she called me from an iPad that she stored in the bathroom which is the place she ran to when she got into trouble. She calls the us, we got the police over there; he got arrested and before he was able to get out of jail we able to have her moved into a safe house and had her under safety. She's still under a lot of therapy because it had been years and years and years of torment that she had been through with him. I would have never known that woman was in the room, I never paid attention to me or anything but she had gotten on, she had started following, she had started listening, she had literally been watching and following everything we were doing but she's not somebody who would be the loud boisterous woman you would talk to. I just build trust with her by being real, being funny, being loud but being impactful, not just to make a noise but to show that I really care about people and that's my biggest blessing right there. I’m impacting people that I don't even know. Donnie Boivin: One of the greatest things that I was ever told, when I first started getting on stages and stuff was, “Donnie, it's not about people that have the guts to come up and say hi. It's about the people that don't,” and the difference what he was telling me was when you're getting on the stage the first thing you gonna do is go walk around the crowd because there's people that really in their heart know that they need to be raising their hand and asking for your help and advice but they're also battling their own self doubt and everything else and you've got to be the person that bridges that gap. So now I've learnt soon as I get off stage I have to go amongst the people and start shaking hands. Angie Monroe: Yeah and it's so true. I've always had the ability even as a young child, I would see the people that are hiding in the shadows you know? So you always had the people there were right there wanting to be part of all the action and then you had the people that want to be part of it but they don't want the attention and that type thing so they are on the peripherals of the group. I've been one that whatever company i've worked at, even in high school; I will go sit with the people that nobody wanted to sit with. I would go hang out with those people because I wanted them to know that they were seen because if they don't know that they were seen, they may do something that will cause them to disappear. I felt that even has younger child, so working at church offices, working at corporate offices, I would always go out and meet the people that were kind of like “the forgotten ones”. I worked at an air cargo company, I would go out and meet with the mechanics that were in the outpost and the pilot's that worked the outpost because they were the ones that were never in headquarters to be seen or connect with, you know? Now whenever we get off the stage, yes there's a line of people that want to talk to you there's always that but I also try and go and purposely talk to that person that's still sitting in their seat observing because maybe they take a little longer to process what you just said. And ask them how are you doing today. I don't ask them what they enjoyed it about my talk... Donnie Boivin: Absolutely. Angie Monroe: I don't make them about me I ask them how they're doing, what are some of their goals, what is it that you want to accomplish - how can we help you accomplish that? What does that look like for you? Believe it or not I don't sell a lot, I really don't I just add value a lot. I was listening to your thing with “Miss Charlynda” earlier on, I love listening to her because she's such a fireball. She and I are on the same page when it comes to relationship marketing. It is all about building those relationships, I don't need to sell everybody in the room right now because I'm building relationships because if I build relationships, I will have long-term longevity and not only will I be able to sell to them but they'll be able to sell to me because now we’ve built mutual trust. Whenever I'm ready to post on our Facebook page, on social media or in our podcasts that we're launching soon - I've got trustworthy relationships built and I'm not just saying he is so and so from Josh Mows down the street, I'm talking about someone I actually know and that's important to me. I don't refer people for jobs much less anything else with my name attached to it unless I can really put the rubber to the road on them. Donnie Boivin: What's awesome is, I think there's 2 people in this world and I don't mean to put people in boxes but there's really 2 people. And the 2 people are, there’s somebody that carves a trail and there's people that follow that trail. I love the fact that you have the torch out front and you're just blowing things up and rolling and going because it takes those strong personalities to draw all those people in and it takes the strong set of shoulders to be able to carry that burden and that weight. You know it very well because when you need it, leave it all out they are on the stage, they take it out of you real quick. Because you're trying to deliver so much of a message to these people. How did it evolve into this bigger thing I mean I know you went across the US and you're talking to all these women from all walks of life… How did it form into this, and you don't have to say the name of DIVAS again because I'm going to hell trying to remember that acronym it's a very cool, big, powerful word though. Now how did it evolve into that? Angie Monroe: It came out of a selfish thing, quite honestly. I needed to remind myself on a regular basis of I was, what I wanted to be, how I wanted to walk. My motto actually comes from a Bible verse but it’s, “Do justice, walk humbly and love kindness.” Just being very simple and how do I do theses things on a regular basis? How do I stand up for the woman who's being wronged physically, mentally, emotionally? How do I love them through all of that and how do I stay humble no matter what we accomplished through the process? DIVAS Impact, I started looking at how many women didn't even know what they were destined or purposed for. They’re still just floating through life, they got married right out of high school or college and now they’re divorced and they have no idea what they wanna be when they grow up because they've always been a wife or a mom. They are transitioning from high school to college and they still don't know what they wanna be. With the veterans they came out of the military, like “Miss Charlynda” said it took her 7 months to find a job because helicopter mechanics are not an everyday thing all over the world. It's amazing how different that is and so how do we find a way to find a place for them, for helping them identify their purposes and help them look back through their course of life and through their life map and to go to what is the silver cord of familiarity throughout their life that they could really just cling on to. And then it goes on to who are you inspiring; who inspired you and who are you inspiring? Because it's a Pay It Forward model, we all have to Pay It Forward. The biggest one that's been our biggest target this year is the victory one, because we don't focus on victimisation. Right now the biggest hate mail we are getting is literally from other women's groups and from the “#MeToo” and “Times Up” movement because we don't focus on the victimisation side of things. I'm not saying that there's not a place for those organisations. I'm just saying when you're done being a victim, come on! We’ve got something better better for you. Let us help you, walk you out of that victim mode and into victory mode - I'm one of those, I experienced sexual assault while I was in the military at the hands of a fiance. Left, beaten, battered all that stuff I have that side but I don't live in fear from it anymore. I got news for other women out there, you don't have to live in fear from it either. It's absolutely imperative that you reach out and let us help you get to that place of victory. I could care less what Donald Trump or Billy Bush says about women on a bus. If women are saying nasty things about each other right across the dinner table it just doesn't make sense to be mad about that and not take care of what we're saying about ourselves, so we have to be accountable. We have to be accountable of how we talk to each other and really be those sisters, true blood sisters love you, like you, don't like you whatever - you’re still gonna be linked arm in arm to each other come hell or high water because you're a sister. Well I'm speaking in London whether I’m speaking in Texas, Georgia, Louisiana, wherever it is... the message is still the same; we are much stronger together, when we link arms together, than we are when we facing each other and pushing and causing that resistance. That's our biggest challenge right now, really getting other women to really understand that we're not against any woman, we are completely open to any women even if they hate us. We are completely open to them because we truly want what's best for them. Donnie Boivin: You know, here is what I really love about this, it's whatever you focus on you become. And if you focus on the victim side of things, you will stay in the victim side of things. But if you focus on where am I going, who am I becoming, how am I using this to empower… you know sh**y things happen to all kinds of people and you get two choices in life: You can dwell on something really crappy that happened to you and you can crawl in a hole and do it or you can step forward and keep moving forward and go and find groups like yours, I love this. You're actively empowering women to say that's not gonna define me. Angie Monroe: Right, and that's exactly what our mission statement says,”We equip and empower a global community of women agents to make a positive impact in the world.” That’s really what we’re focusing on, we have the group classes that people can be apart of to walk through that healing from past traumas, no matter what the past trauma is. And it doesn't matter what level of trauma it is. The other part I hear is, oh well your assault is not bad as my assault. It doesn't matter! Come on man! Donnie Boivin: I can't believe that, that would be a saying. Angie Monroe: Or it's kind of like a guy saying well you did combat in Syria, I did combat in Afghanistan. Donnie Boivin: Right, right. Angie Monroe: It was combat! (both laugh) Angie Monroe: I am now made aware of a newer generation of women coming out of the military than what it was whenever I came out of the military, the ones that went before me coming out of the military and I think the other thing for our Veteran DIVAS as we have more soldiers coming home now which is great but they're coming home with more wounds because the technology and the medical technology is able to save them but there's still those emotional scars and how do we serve that community the best. I'm very invested in this part of it because I have two sons that serve in the military. One is a fake son but he's been with US since he was 12 so I share him with his momma... Donnie Boivin: You just said fake son, I just want to point that out. (laughs) Angie Monroe: Well, we've had several kids live with us over the years and the first one I took one to school he introduced me as fake mom so all the other kids after that became fake kids. Donnie Boivin: I love that because I had several moms like that grown up because I had Mum but I still got but his mums that I call Mom. They call me son and some other choice words you know; that's awesome. Angie Monroe: You know as a mom who has a son that's in the army with seventh group. have another one with Fort Campbell with fort 60, they're very high volatile groups there and because they're in the military we all know that the likelihood of them finding a wife our girlfriend even will someone be military related 2 so why not start forging that path now. Whether it be a military brat or another soldier or whatever, so why not start 14 that path and opening doors doors so that my future daughter-in-law will be somebody there will bring about change for their generation of women so that's impactful for me Donnie Boivin: There's so many organisations targeted at the veteran communities right now and I have two thoughts.One, a lot of those organisations just need to partner up and quit competing with each other. But this is the first time that I've heard of a group targeting the female veterans in this way so, good on you for coming up with a unique way to approach. Because of Facebook (love it or hate it) I've had the privilege of meeting so many awesome and really bad ass women that come out of the military and they all got stories and they all got impact. I forgot the number I saw one tIme but the number of sexual traumas that come out of the military for the women are ridiculously high and what people don't understand is that when we were on camp, the guy to girl ratio was 10000 to 1. And it's insane, so that's why (it doesn’t make it right) I like girls like you that are strong and confident when I say you were a dude with long hair and you’re like of course. So I love the fact that you are going in and working with those girls, and their stories and their transitions because I think people are trying to take it from the whole and you've really niched down and I think that’s solid because just like guys, yeah they're gonna have your own damn language, you're gonna have your own way of talking, and we talked about it earlier I mean you've got a bunch of veterans in one room? The civilians are gonna freak the hell out because of how they're talking to each other, how they're saying it and what they're actually saying,so good on you. Where do you think this whole thing is taking you, you're doing some really cool things... Angie Monroe: I mean I'm getting to meet some people, like you said there's a bunch of organisations there that do some amazing things for the veterans but the biggest thing that I'm excited about is that I'm more of a networker by nature. I love getting out, meeting people, finding out what they're passionate about. DIVAS Impact doesn't have to meet all the needs, we just need to know who can meet their needs so we can be that connecting point. My biggest challenge with DIVAS Impact was that there wasn't anything that was speaking to the whole woman. You can go and be a part of this for this fitness challenge, or this fashion challenge, or this for spiritual study and this for business… It was like that's segmenting the woman, you're taking more of their time because now they have to be a part of all these 15 things to fit that whole woman. What we wanted to create was a whole woman approach, so we talk about faith, family, fun, fitness, finance and just a lot of other words that begin with f and some that don't. We get real, we will talk about things they’ll go, yeah you’re just an all christian group... and I'll say we are not a Christian group, we're not a non-profit, we're not a Christian group - we’re not a nonprofit because I wanted women to realise the value of investing in themselves so I didn't want them to see the word non-profit and get a poverty mindset, “I need to get, I need to get, I need to get.” They will get a tonne of value, from a very minimal investment we give out. The other part is you know quite frankly, the best challenge we’ve had is getting chewed out by people because we charged $20 for something. Donnie Boivin: (laughs) Angie Monroe: $20. If that's what you bent over shape over, then so be it but let's talk about your mindset first and they'll go oh. Our goal is not to shine a light on the things you've done wrong, all the things that happened to you. If we look in a dark cave, you're in a dark cave so when you've gone through something bad you’re in a bad spot like she said, went through bankruptcy and all of the stuff she went through. We’re not gonna go, “Look you had a bankruptcy and you had to give this up and give that up, oh man I'm not sure if I can trust you!” We're going to go you know what, we see you’re in a hole right now... you see this light? We're going to shine it on a hand if you just reach the hand then we’re going to help you walk out of this. Donnie Boivin: You know my favourite meme that's running around the social media right now, keep getting chills just thinking about it - there's a veteran down in a hole and the veteran is sitting in the bottom of his hole and a psychologist who walks by and says we're gonna talk about your childhood, we're going to talk about your past and the veteran does that and the psychologist walks away and hey I did that but I'm still sitting in this hole. The doctor comes by and says you know what the problem is? You just haven't had enough medication so we're gonna give you some pills, so the veteran takes the pills and he goes well I took the pills but I'm still in this hole. And then family and friends and everyone keeps coming by and everyone keeps trying but I'm still down in this hole and all of a sudden another veteran walks by sees down in the hole jumps down the hole, the first veteran and goes what the hell now it's 2 of us down here, the second veteran goes don't worry I've been here before I know how to get the hell out. Angie Monroe: Right, exactly and it's huge. It’s so huge that we do that. One of my favourite organisations to donate to actually was one that made an impact for my daughter. It's a Christian organisation called Embrace Grace, it's for single moms with unplanned pregnancies. They just make it a safe place for girls to come back to church and not be ashamed or shunned by it. When my daughter went through it, the healing process for that was huge, because I was a girl with an unplanned pregnancy and I didn't realise the shame that I carried for that until my daughter walked through this process and I got healing through that. That one organisation helped me tremendously, so now I recommend and refer a lot of girls to that organisation. I want the same thing to happen with us, I want people to come here and get help, get healing and they go but y’all do things from a faith basis, I’m like I've been raised in church my whole life I worked for a church, you know there's the whole saying of I love Jesus and I cuss a little too. (both laugh) Angie Monroe: But I was in the navy, I can't help it every once in a while it just pops out. On the other side I said that we go places that Jesus went that the church no longer goes to. We rub elbows with people that have done things that the church is shaming them for and casting them out for or society has cast them out for and it's really hard to get people to trust you if you're not willing to get dirty and it really is. Donnie Boivin: Yeah and that's something because like you pointed it out there may be sitting in a hole they, may be sitting in the cave, they may be sitting in that dark place - I don't give a sh*t where the candle comes from, where the light comes from, what the background and the story is as long as you carrying a freaking torch and say hey it's this way, more freaking power to you. Angie Monroe: Yeah and there is so many great people in the veteran community and even in the regular community that have been through stuff that can help these people walk out. At first people need to know that they are there and that they are safe to walk them out. Right now there's just not enough of and I don't know if you're a part of that but there's the organisation that they found out that a service member is in trouble and they go and talk to the service member, they may be suicidal they may be whatever and they go and help out so they are rolling up their sleeves. Where are you? How do I get to you? We're going to solve this… we need more of that. People are too caught up in their phones, in their Facebook to do anything. Donnie Boivin: That's it, people are turning a blind eye because I don't know if you're both saying that you're helping somebody out by osmosis you're gonna be a bad person now too or whatever the hell is going on with them. Everyone is so worried about what everybody else will think about them, this is just doing the right damn thing, getting off your desk and going to help some souls out. I mean seriously good on you guys because once again, you got to have a broad set of shoulders to be able to carry that torch, you've already said it but I know you’re catching it on the chin from these big organisations and from these big movements and keep picking a fight. There's so many women that are going through their journey and, don't want to be the victim they don't want to live in those dark places. They want to stay out of it and become... so, good on you for giving them a place that they can call home. Angie Monroe: I think that's the biggest challenge right now, we're finding that some of those women that do want to get out of it but we’re also finding some of these women that are so comfortable in being the victim right now that they are so afraid of what walking out of that victimhood. When I was attacked, I was attacked from behind. Like I said it was a very brutal attack and it was bad and when I found out that I was completely free of all of my fear - most militaries, I’d walk in and never sit with my back to the door, I always had my guard up, I was always self aware of everything that goes on. There was a couple of other fears in there too but there was one time I was sitting at a hotel, in a restaurant I went to eat my soup and as I picked up this spoon to put this soup in my mouth I started laughing because I realised that, at that point I was sitting in the restaurant with my back to the door and I was facing the wall and I realised at that point the level of healing I've gone from that trauma. From that point on everything just escalated into quicker and quicker being free and it was the most impactful moment I've ever had of realising how free I was from that. Being able to tell that to other woman that they can have that too, they say well I do that anyway I have to know where all the doors are then I say you don't have to know that, you're choosing to the know that now because you’re choosing to stay in this wreck you’re in. Let us help you walk out of it and it's been really powerful to watch some of these women walk out of it. Working with some of these organisations that are around here and referring them to go on retreat with other women who have been through that part of the work and back and start working through things even more. There's a homeless epidemic, just starting to hit the womEn - they just don't get the help the men do because they can't stay in the shelters... Donnie Boivin: ...because of the sexual abuse. Angie Monroe: ...because of the sexual assault. It's just a reoccurring epidemic and so how do we go in and start making these changes and Texas is a great state for veterans and veteran work but we still got a long way to go. And we have a lot of work that needs to be done in that area and I wanna start locally, Texas-wise and start branching out into other states and working with other states to get things going and go federal on how we can change things. Not just for the DIVAS that are veterans, for the studs that are veterans (laughs). Because whatever impacts the women, there are still some guys that are getting sexually assaulted in the military. Though they’re smaller numbers because we just don’t talk about that so how do we help them too along the way? That's the other part of our organisation we don't male bash, anybody that male bashes gets blown out because yes there is... I'm gonna say it… I’m gonna use the buzzword this week… There is toxic masculinity, those are the jerks that beat the crap out of women, that’s toxic masculinity. It is not the guys that come out, they provide for their family, they make a couple of crude jokes here and there whoopee you know, words don't hurt you - fists, pipes and guns and all that can hurt you if they’re used in the wrong hands. We wanna talk about how can we look at men and women coexisting without the male bashing or the trash talking of women but it all starts with how we look and see ourselves first, we've got to put value on ourselves first. Donnie Boivin: If the entire society, if the entire world… look at it through those damn lenses, this would be a lot easier place to live. Because I can tell you as a dude man, the way a lot of things are happening you become too hesitant on what to say, how you act, how you keep yourself and I've never done anything. I've been a good dude, I've been married to the same woman this entire ride, raised by a great mom a great family. There's no reason that I should be slightly on edge, during all this stuff so, good on you girl, good on you. Angie Monroe: Well my husband and I, we were in Ohio last week we were in West Virginia last week for a family event and while we were up there one of the cousins brought up that commercial that talked about the toxic masculinity and I said well let's put it up and look at it. So we watched it together, I wanted him to give his opinion before I gave mine and his saying was we needed more men stepping up and being leaders for this future generation to the men that's what his take out of it was. But he could see wait a minute, I'm not enough, I'm not doing the right thing, he was conflicted with the message himself. But on the other side of it for me, I said I saw some guys in there that were in commercial mode, doing a great job but let's start focusing on the 600 guys that showed up for Dallas City Centre School for Dad's Day that didn't have kids in that school, try tell me they're not good guys. Why don't we look at the guys that responded down to Houston and put on during the floods down there, the people that showed up after hurricane Michael. Let's start looking at some of those. There were douches that showed up because they're always people that come and try to rip it off but let's let's call out the goodness. I'll tell you quite honestly that's what saved our marriage when I started looking at my husband and going I see a better man in there than what I'm settling for and I see you being amazing at this, you're an amazing provider, you're an awesome cook, you're in this and I start calling out those greatness moments in him - the rest of the stuff goes by the Wayside. So if we want to start calling out things why don't we start calling out the greatness out of the people around us. That’s what we wanna see. Donnie Boivin: You're such a burning flame and I'm in enjoying getting to know you more, because whatever you focus on you become. Whatever you’re influenced by you become and I'm not screaming fake news or any crazy sh*t but the news there is to sell, they're trying to sell commercials and everything else and they know that darkness sells. The darker the story the more people to tune in. Turn that sh*t off. Get out of it and start surrounding yourself with people that are trying to do something with their lives and get better influences and go for it because otherwise you’re going to stay in that cave, you know? Good on you girl. How do people get in touch with you Miss Angie? Angie Monroe: Well, of course we have our DIVAS Impact page, on our DIVAS Impact page we have our Veteran DIVAS groups, and our DIVAS Inner Circle linked they can always email us, and we are here in the US area but I travel all over the place so watch for our website being updated with all our locations. We’ll be travelling in New Orleans area in April, and Georgia in August, West Virginia in October and a couple more dates we’re still firming up between now and then. We got a lot of places that we’re going to so we like to meet our DIVAS on the street out and about and connecting with people so that's what what we do. Donnie Boivin: Awesome, awesome. Well, this has been a real honour to have you on the show. Here's how I like to wrap up every episode and I do shock some people with this so be forewarned. You're gonna leave people on the show, people from around the world. That's 75 countries right now listening, entrepreneurs, business owners, veterans, people from all walks of life… If you were gonna leave them with a quote, a phrase, a saying, a mantra, something they can take with them on their journey... Angie Monroe: You know when I was 9 years old, I found this quote it was from John Maxwell and it's saved on my iPad it's my thing and it says,’Your willingness to learn and adjust positively from mistakes and shortcomings will largely determine how you travel on the road to success.’ I normally change the word ‘success’ to ‘significance’ because I'm on a path of significance that leads to my success. Donnie Boivin: That's awesome, that's awesome. It's been an honour. I'm so glad I got to be part of your journey girl, thanks for coming on and doing this. Angie Monroe: Alright, thank you.
Rich Redmond is one of the world’s most influential and in-demand drummers who has worked with the “who’s who” of the music industry. A successful entrepreneur, Rich is a true “renaissance man” in the entertainment industry.  Rich has toured/recorded/performed with: Jason Aldean Garth Brooks Bob Seger Bryan Adams  Kelly Clarkson Ludacris Florida Georgia Line Keith Urban Trace Adkins Miranda Lambert Eric Church Cole Swindell Tyler Farr Thomas Rhett Michael Tyler Hank Williams, Jr Jewel Vince Gill Travis Tritt Montgomery Gentry Alabama Joe Perry (Aerosmith) Terri Clark The Pointer Sisters  Thompson Square Marty Stuart Thompson Square Parmalee Frankie Ballard 1,000 Horses Lee Brice Steel Magnolia Emily West OAR Phyllis Diller Steve Allen Lit Lindsay Ell Rushlow  Pam Tillis  Gene Watson  Susan Ashton  John Anderson  Doc Walker  The Roadhammers  Deana Carter  Jedd Hughes Patricia Conroy  Chuck Wicks  The Lost Trailers  Andi Griggs  Earl Thomas Conley  Hank Williams III  Mindy McCready  Robbie Nevil  Emily West  Jo El Sonnier  Jim Brickman  Deana Carter  Crystal Schawanda  Anita Cochran  Patricia Conroy  Earl Thomas Conley  Big Kenny  Stan Lynch (Tom Petty, Don Henley) Lila McCann  Michael Peterson  Ronna Reeves  Regina Regina  Lucy Woodward  Lane Turner  Crossin' Dixon  Lee Brice  Steel Magnolia  The Stellas  Hot Chelle Rae, and many others. Motivational Speaking Clients: Cisco Johnson and Johnson Hewlett Packard Microsoft Presidio Embassy Suites Hard Rock Hotel Katalyst Technologies Sigmanet Information Transport Systems School Of Rock Rock N Roll Fantasy Camp Herff Jones Omnience Hershey Park The Arts Institute Grammy Camp Active Data Comm Education: Bachelor of Music Education, Texas Tech University, 1992. Master of Music Education, University of North Texas. Teaching Certificate, State of Texas 1993. Rich toured with the 1:00 Lab Band, the most prestigious collegiate jazz band in the world. On the radio: Rich has recorded 23 #1 hits you hear on the radio every hour on the hour around the world. Hits like “Big Green Tractor” and “She’s Country” helped pave the way for a new sonic brand in music and have earned their place as radio classics. On the video: Rich has appeared in 20 #1 music videos on networks like CMT, GAC, AXS TV On stage: Rich plays to sold-out amphitheaters, arenas and stadiums around the world to over two million fans per year! Rich has played sold out shows at the most iconic venues in the world: Madison Square Garden, The Hollywood Bowl, Fenway Park, Wrigley Field, Red Rocks, The Gorge, Texas Stadium and most every Major League Baseball and NFL Stadium. On TV: Rich has appeared multiple times on hit tv shows like: The Voice, American Idol, The Grammy Awards, The Tonight Show (with Leno, O’Brien and Fallon), The Today Show, Conan O' Brien Show, Jimmy Kimmel, Craig Ferguson, Good Morning America, Ellen, The CMA Awards, ACM Awards, CMT Awards, ACA Awards, The People’s Choice Award, etc. As a host: Rich hosts his “Pick Rich’s Brain” Podcast on Itunes, Google Play, Stitcher and Youtube. Awards: Rich was awarded “Country Drummer Of The Year” 2015, 2017, 2017, 2018 by Modern Drummer Magazine, the world’s most widely read drum publication. Producer: As a music PRODUCER, Rich has helped popular radio acts THOMPSON SQUARE and PARMALEE garner 3 #1 radio hits which included the most played song on country radio for 2011, “Are You Gonna Kiss Me Or Not”? Author: Rich’s book “FUNdamentals of Drumming For Kids” has a 5-star rating on Amazon and is a best seller in 5 countries. Rich is also a regular contributor to magazines such as Modern Drummer, Drum!, Rhythm, Music Insider and many others. Songwriter: Rich has had #1 songs with the Australian pop-country band "The Wolfe Brothers"....entitled "You Got To Me", "That Kinda Night" and "When I Was The One". Educator: Rich has appeared twice as a featured performer/speaker at the prestigious Percussive Arts Society Annual Convention. Rich is also a popularly featured artist with collegiate ensembles, such as The University of Northern Iowa, where Rich’s drum set was placed on a moving riser with a 400 piece marching band. -Rich appears regularly in trade publications and interviews discussing the value and importance of music education in America. Other clients include: Musician’s Institute in Hollywood, The Los Angeles Music Academy, Belmont University, The School Of Rock, Rock N Roll Fantasy Camp, The University of Texas San Antonio and many others. -Rich was the drum set professor at The University of North Alabama for the 2017-2018 school year. Actor: Rich is an active on screen and voice actor in Hollywood and the Southeast markets. He can be seen playing the role of “Lieutenant Paxton” in a new horror film called “Reawakened”, an over-caffeinated radio DJ in “All Light Will End” and a copy of SYFY Channel’s hit show “Happy”. Product Design: Rich has designed specialty products for global companies like DW Drums, Promark Sticks, Prologix Pads, Gator Cases and Humes and Berg Cases. Link to products: Rich Redmond SIGNATURE ACTIVE GRIP 595 Drumsticks: DW BLACK SHEEP Beater: Mentor: Rich teaches musicians in one on one and group settings to help them further their skill set, confidence and career opportunities. Rich uses the MEETHOOK app to mentor drummers and musicians around the world. Expert: Rich is frequently called upon to lend his expert opinion on the subjects of music, motivation, marketing, and success. Alright, guys, this is gonna be a really, really, really fun episode. You know, I'm having a lot of fun with bringing so many different guests on here. So this would be a little bit of a twist. Today I'm bringing on you know, a musician from the Nashville scene and, you know, so I'm sure I'm gonna bust his chops about being a drummer. So that'll be fun. I'm sure he's caught his entire career but you know, so I'm bringing on Rich Redmond. I'm Donnie Boivin. This is Donnie success champions Rich buddy Welcome to the show, my friend. I've played drums for 42 years. I'm originally from Milford, Connecticut. So I'm a little New England boys and the first 10 years of my life there fell in love with the drums my dad ended up moving to El Paso Texas when I was 11. He did that for 20 years and he ran the factories that made Victoria's Secrets underwear. Ladies just sewing underwear all day across the border. And then and so that was a great thing for me because Texas has a strong culture of music education, the great state of music, education, very healthy scenes. So I kind of, you know, nurtured My, chops, and my musicianship there ended up going and getting a master's degree from the University of North Texas, the Eagles you know, those are actually the Eagles were formed. Then in 1997 I moved to Nashville, Tennessee, and so I'm celebrating I don't know 23 years so of navigating the Music City, USA and so yeah, and so, since day one, I've been playing drums for a country rocker Jason Aldean. Just, I just celebrated playing drums on 25 number one songs which are really fun. We're working on our 19th record, I should know. Finishing that up, and then we'll have enabled and had a nice tour this year. Then we'll probably get into some other things. But I just have embraced the entertainment and education fields and I do some speaking. I author I, I do a little voiceover and little acting out here in Hollywood. I like to mentor and educated from camps, produce records, write songs, I'm in the game of entertainment and just have just love and light and that is awesome. That's awesome. I mean, Louis last night, I went to my niece, she plays saxophone or high school. And they this whole for a program that started off I did the drum corps. Yeah, that's what I was going through high school. You know, you know, a couple of guys banging on drums. Nowadays. It's like an entire flipping show. It's insane what they're doing with you and these kids into it, it was that you know how you could jump to this whole thing with your high school into the game? Yeah, it was a fifth grade I was actually in 1976 or 77. I was you know, six, seven years old and I was listening to kiss records and may I was restless my parents got me drum lessons I was studying with a guy in Connecticut and so I got some skills together and so then when I was enough hasn't tenses and they join the fifth grade band was already headed the other kids, but I knew that while I have this cool skill, it was an icebreaker people were interested in he was a way to be socially acceptable, you know, and that awkward period of your life especially when going into high school and stuff. And so it was great. It was you know, it was my calling, I recognize that and 93 police came out with a record called synchronicity and then the very next year, Van Halen came out with a smoking Angel on the cover of a record called nice name for and I just resonated with me and I said, this is what I'm going to do with my life and then I didn't know About Malcolm Gladwell and the 10,000. Our theory of mastering a craft Matter of fact is so funny. I was in my favorite West Hollywood eatery the other night, and I don't get starstruck, but Malcolm Gladwell was ordering a drink next. He's a very unique looking individual. But, you know, five best sellers. I mean, his books they just full meaning, you before you know, you've learned so much the book is over. What what I'm a big fan out over that I wanted to be like Malcolm high five. You're not supposed to do when you read but I didn't. I just walked away. I left them. But I didn't know about the 10,000-hour theory at that time, but was, you know, I was passionate about it. So when you know you're passionate about something, it's so easy to work hard, and the harder you work the more successful in attracting yourself. So I have already had those wheels in motion roses, living and breathing drums and I continued that all the way you know, never missed a meal man. You know, I mean, there were some hard times and you know, I had some rough day jobs. I was a courier. I did construction. I was a waiter. I was a kindergarten teacher, substitute teacher and schlepped drums around all around the planet and lugging suitcases. I figured recently that I haven't unpacked my suitcase and 22 years I've been living out of a suitcase The only time I truly unpack is when is when at the end of the year or currencies and as usual over in October and I'll and I'll literally I will just take everything out of the suitcase and put everything away even though I know I'm going to be putting things back in there to go do freelance things are speeches, but I touring cycle now has become like the beach or April through October, which is wonderful. We do about 60 shows a year. But we used to do 225 shows early days about being like in 2004 2005 2006 we lived on the road was just it was incredible. And then that's a wild lifestyle to I mean, so how did you go into the national scene and how did you hook up with Jason Aldean? I mean, was it a tryout, was it a call? Or would you guys just have me drinking the same bar? And so let's put this together. Yeah, it's funny to hear people's stories and see how they're 16. Another success comes together, but it's the perception of the music business, is that it's an audition based industry. And I think that, you know, 99% of your guests are going there that are all speaking on success, are going to say it's about human relationships and interacting with the owner, championing each other and lifting each other up and having birds of a feather come together and I was playing in a band with a guy named Kurt Allison, who was our guitar player to this day. And so I've been playing with him for 23 years. I had a gig with him and his dad in a band called The Blues, other brothers and we had like a review. We did like Motown, Stax Records, kind of things. I'm working, you know, Dennis, Dennis, that, all that stuff and then he introduced me to this guy named Kelly Kennedy to who's our bandleader and our bass player to this day, totally Kennedy's Uncle was was writing songs at Warner Chappell Music. Michael Knox was the VP at Warner Chappell music and who is Jason's producer to this day? Michael said we need a band totally said Kurt you know a drummer champion me we brought the three of us together and it's like you know can invert you put your peanut butter and chocolate just worked in like to this day you know i don't know we had I guess when I too many Irish Coffee is what we call ourselves to three kings and him kind of branded ourselves that way about those three knuckleheads that went every were together for a decade and we ended up just playing with Jason Aldean become great friends which are not being so it was. Yeah, I think I had to have it was there was a loose audition which means learning material going in knowing the material it was given. I was going to do a good job for them. I did a good job for them but they wanted to see if I can, if we can all you know it was going to link me because when you're living this lifestyle, your arms Stage, maybe two hours a day and there's another 22 hours a day that you're writing a 45 foot two. And you're sleeping on airport floors and, and I'm about to put out a book next month called Crash Course for success and literally one of the photos is all of us crashed out on the airport floor. And the and the caption is, you know, touring is hell sleep cycle. That's kind of how that all came together man and a very organic human relationship based way. And the music industry is not for the faint of heart. It's you know, it's tough on relationships. It's been tough on health. So it's nice to be able to go through such an industry with like-minded people that you finish each other's sentences and you're part of each other's you know, wedding parties and look for sharing it almost like five presidencies later and met a few gray more gray hairs later too. And yeah, this is my choice and I was I had Lot of wives and girlfriends that were a hairstylist and so it was pretty easy to get my hair pink and black. Right? On vacation recently I just said I'm gonna let this go. And when they fill my wife, man, I'm not getting gray hair thing. This is Chrome is. But you know and a lot of people look at like the music industry or the acting industry of all that and they always around this whole thought process of this overnight success type thing. And, you know, doesn't matter how many times you tell them an overnight success is a myth. Right? There's a lot of damn hard work is a lot of friggin late nights at airport floors and everything else. I mean, how long were you in the game before you felt like okay, I'm finally you know, in my rhythm and things are working. Yeah. Well, my story was I moved to Nashville on a Tuesday with a box of 400 cassette demos Rich Redmond percussion. And I was passing these things out everywhere and I had little before then you would have like a folder and it would have all your press clippings in it and it was so archaic and you know, I always had a, you know, a VISTA print business card that was a pretty savvy self-promoters still to the day, you know, no one is going to champion you like yourself and I want you as much as yourself. So you have to be polite, be persistent, and maybe have some luck along the way, but luck is just being prepared for those opportunities, and also giving yourself a shot to be successful in the music business people like can I do this from Des Moines, Iowa Can I do this from Tallahassee Florida know you can really only be in three places you know, and New York City really has kind of become you know, you do Broadway and then you can play weddings, environments were you know, make pretty good money. live out in Long Island come into the City, Los Angeles, you know, I'm here a lot. I have a love affair with Los Angeles like your business out here. But if you're not doing music for TV and film, and you don't have a big touring gig, the actual music scene Los Angeles really isn't the healthiest. And then you have a place like Music City, where people are like, Well, what about Austin, Texas? Austin's great. It's great there's a lot of great live music going on, but it doesn't have the big machine, the infrastructure of, okay, song was written at 10am on a Monday, that song has to be demoed up. And so there's a group of musicians that play on the demo, and it's a play on the record in a live band has to be put together and then around that you have tour managers, graphic designers, web designers, truck drivers, caterers that whole industry, there are so many jobs and handle feet and you need all those things to make that Taylor Swift show work and as she called her label big machine, because we have the big machinery that infrastructure that doesn't exist. But you know, and I'm glad you brought that up because a lot of people are looking at it as you know, I sing I played drums I play guitar, I'm just going to show up and it's going to happen. Yeah, you know, it's, it's a production. I like the term big machine. You know, it's really an amazing name, you know for, for the label but know your skill set is having an extremely an incredibly well put together cultivated skill set is an expectation. The other thing is giving yourself that chance to be successful, which is going to a place like Nashville, Tennessee, and then getting out and shaking hands and crashing parties and letting the world know you exist because there are some amazing drummers Are you better than me? They're playing their mind space. But you have to take your music to the people you have to connect with other people. Those gatekeepers, especially someone like a drummer is only as good as, as the people that are surrounded by a really strong and important and powerful position in a band. But usually, unless you're like a deep Grove was writing all the material, you know, we're only as good as the person that you're surrounding yourself with. So my story was I moved to Nashville on a Tuesday, and by Wednesday, I was I had a gig on Saturday night I was playing with like a corporate band and you know That you're playing, you know, jazz and the salads coming out. And then you're eating the main course and you're playing Motown by the end of the night everyone's been interrupted lip clapping on one and three and dancing to discuss something for the 70s. You know, and but that was great because that's what opened my door to my Nashville. You know, the family tree of shaking this person's hand, they champion me, they recommended me to someone else. And it's still happening to this day, and you're never done paying your dues, because I never want to be that guy that says, I've made it. I know everyone in the industry. There are new people coming to Nashville all the time. And what I do is I need that new talent. And now I'm on the other side of the business where you know, if you're a national long enough, eventually started writing software, producing records. I opened up my own record label, I have a record label 1225 label group. And so so now I can nurture you. Right and i and i, and through my eyes and my experiences, I can give them positive streets and be an artist, producer and Label Label. That's awesome. Well, keep your eyes and Fort Worth Texas because there's a lot of awesome local musicians coming out of here right now. Yeah. So, so, you know, what was it like, you know, up there performing with a guy like Jason Aldean and depending on some circles you love me or hate them you know you know what was it like being up there playing for massive crowds know live in that that rock star life with the spotlight the the craziness that happens on the road because I have some buddies in the game. I know some of the fun stories, but you know, what is that what it was? Was that like that experience like for you? And it's my happy place. I think that you know, I was, you know, had these calling these columns in life and you know, I think, my God my house, my higher power gave me this talent and I was respected enough to nurture it molded and then Be able to have that connective tissue, the connective tissue are all the guys in my band or allow us to express ourselves and I think music is one of our highest forms of communication to get you to know, it transcends all cultural barriers language barriers, and but know when I'm up there and Pyros going off and see I mean that is just like my goddess energy and receiving energy and I'm putting out energy and I always tell my students I say look if you want to send your energy not to the person per person there in the in the expensive see if they're already the true believers you have to go to the cheap seats in the guy that was dragged there by his girlfriend you make that guy who believes that my goal is to have that guy go home that was on the fence and no man has ever seen in my life. Have you got to say it that voice mail it was my attempt at a southern accent but no, it's it's I don't want to say that the drums to find me but it's such a it's such a calling when I'm when I see a set of drums even like I'm going to look up a nightclub or I'm at a wedding or something, there's a set of drums in the corner to focus on that man, I want to go play those drums. You know, it's just a, it's just calling so when I'm on stage, it's like Dude, I meant to do this and then it's like a drug and you're always looking for that next opportunity to do that. See? You same thing when you're speaking but that's how I feel when I'm on stage speaking is you know, you know it said that I want to hit the people that are in the back the one that was guys know that you know that the skeptics? Yeah, those are the ones that I love that it's a thing for you when you're here. Yeah, and for me, it's it for me when it comes to speaking. It's not so much the power of the words in the concepts I'm saying because my when I speak on my craft concept, commitment, relationships, attitude, skill, and hunger. It's basically a way of reminding people, yeah, you can have your corporate philosophies, you can have your, your PowerPoint, and you can get lost in all of this corporate stuff. But lets I just I'm there to remind them everything I need to know in life I learned in kindergarten. I know basically keep it simple and work on added do everything. You know, like, maybe a relationship or power or you know, I wrote an E-book called five keys, the drumming success, you know, so people can remember it. But for me, it's really like how I am articulating the message. It's almost people like what is your event of about? I said, Well, just picture like an animal from the Muppets. And Robin's means Jerry Lewis, right. So it's like, it's almost like I want to present this in like a very energetic fashion. I'm sweating. I'm pacing. I'm cracking jokes and playing the drums. And then I'm speaking to the drums and I'm speaking and so it's really it's like how I'm getting people that information because I don't know. We went Get people too much credit like I tell people all the time you know people hear music with their eyes most people don't know they're not really educated musically so so we have to give them a show give them or they can just listen to their mp3 right device and these little things right here it's like if you're going to spend all that money get a babysitter paying for parking grave the crowds by a $15 beer Dude, I'm going to make this a memorable experience. Well, and I hope everybody heard that because you have to, I mean, especially if you're going to make it in this day and age and whatever you're in, is I still remember there was an acapella show on TV. I one of the boys the men guys was one of the judges and it was a really really cool shit on there's a country music group that that one one of the episodes that's a completely acapella Country Music Group, Humphrey endings name the group but and, you know, I think was a second or third season. They had this colleague group on all acapella and they were The final episode and whoever won this episode one, the whole show. And the song was taking me to church, and it was done acapella. And, man, they had the littlest dude in their college. I mean, this guy if he was five-foot tall idea maze, and they said, No, we picked him to sing the solo in this because he's got that voice. Do this kid. I get goosebumps thinking about the kids singing. I mean, he's saying it and he, he left it all on the stage. And when he was done performing, then he dropped to his knees and pure exhaustion. That's how much you put into the song. I love it. And then that's stuck with me. Absolutely. I mean, even the voice and the game I wish I remember his name, but he was a judge looked at him because you know, that's why you just want because you put everything you had just in that song. But you know, I think it was Bon Jovi that said, you know, when you go on stage, you've got to perform like this is your last performance. So I always say that, yeah, go on stage. So this may be the very last time What do That's how I'm going out man. Right. But yeah, and just think about that amazing singer in a talent that he had and that commitment to his craft who knows he may be killing it in the industry right now from that initial push of success that he had with that show, or he could be back in the day job became still be moving back in and was parents I don't know. It's like, just having the talent is not enough. You have to mold it and then you have to get to a place and get this and gatekeepers that can actually allow allowing you to give you permission to do what you do. Because I've had some very successful people that I've known that have been raised every hair on my bottle of one girlfriend of mine that comes to mind that was just such an amazing singer and still is an amazing singer. But to create that emotional reaction from when I would play with her i would shed a tear every hair on my arm and stand up. So powerful and things really didn't work out to the extent that they should have and if there are so many other factors involved in cultivating success, long term in your life, Yeah, you know, I'm going through David Goggins book right now called you can't hurt me and do that guys bs but in his book, he laid out something but that once he said it, I'm sure I've heard it other times. It was the first time I heard it put this way when he says is the most time when people look at accomplishing that goal. They're sitting in their soft, comfortable house. They're sitting on their soft, comfortable couch, they're probably drinking in a very comfortable drink watching a TV show, dreaming about that life that could be, right. So it's very, very capable of doing. They're not thinking about and he's talking about running 100-mile marathons and stuff, right? And he's like, you know, people, like, I want to run a marathon. Well, you're sitting on your soft couch, drinking your soft drink, drinking, you know, that simple lifestyle, you're thinking about the end, you're not thinking about all the things that you got to do to go through it, to be able to get there. And it was it was it's the same thing with what you're talking about, is you've got to literally be thinking about where am I going through and then realize that you're going to have to go through a lot of crap, you know, into a lot of things to actually be able to get there and get lucky breaks and what I mean by lucky breaks and you said earlier is by putting yourself in the position to find and they look happy. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Look favorite. Then they're prepared, you know what I mean? Right? And I use over preparation. I use over preparation and hustle as a business model like some, some people have found success at a younger age, some people have found success easier. Some people found success and it has gone away. Like my trajectory has been I've always had the raw talent. I hope that raw talent, I had a vision there were roadblocks there was a door slammed in my face. No, no, no. And I would get success and that will lead to more successes. And it was just the slowest of all climbs. And I'm still working on achieving all of my dreams. And and it's just been very difficult for me. It was not easy. There was a lot of no's and a lot of setbacks. But if you use those setbacks to fuel your victories will be rocking. So like for me, I wrote down my goals in 1997. When I moved to Nashville it was I will be a top call touring and recording drummer based in Nashville. It was a one simple sentence creates a sort of very succinct one or two sentences, that could be your mantra and put it in places where you can, where you can reiterate, reiterated every day saved yourself special before you go to bed at night when you get up in the morning, and I would do that and take all the necessary steps to make that happen. And so I started making a living, playing with various artists, hundreds of others, and maybe out of those hundreds of artists, maybe 10 are still in the industry in some way. And of course, I had to find my Jason Aldean and when I say my Jason Aldean, I mean, he's my he was my standings, my john Mellencamp He's my bar know, he's me, he's me, he's my Billy Joel. He's the front man that I could that I can hitch my wagon to and cultivate a long term career. I had to find that guy. I found, you know, but I mean was country music the direction you are always headed. You know, did you sound like you grew up more on the More the rock side of thing. I just tell everybody I'm an overeducated rock drummer Actually, I have experienced playing so many different kinds of music obviously I fell in love with the police's music, which is, you know, reggae and world-inspired pop rock and then I love you know just knuckle-dragging rock and roll like healing you know, and but I played like so I did the merchant Landry years and when I was in college I did steel drum ensemble world music ensemble, it was in the pep band that was in the jazz combo. I was in the new music ensemble, I was in the Symphonic Band, I was in this, the orchestra, anything I can do to play music is and I can read music and so I played every style of music under the sun. And when you mix all those things together, you can kind of create your own kind of style. And then the other way I was able to cultivate a style was having an outlet, like playing music on the world stage where were you know, God with Jason's music we mixed up the tune guitars and You know drop drop two guitars and drums and storytelling and kind of like restructured the fabric of some of the music making the game permission to like prefer like we're trying to do his thing and for Georgia line to do their thing and and then there are the rap elements and so just all my influences came together in this style and then and then having an encouraging boss like someone like Kaldi and his entire team Secrets You be the drummer you want to be you know their courage our creativity so um and it's been incredible but no but I did play a lot of country music like in Dallas Fort Worth It was like country bands all of the Dallas Fort Worth area but it was also a big band, getting my masters and university like Frank Zappa music and down a deep element. I was playing like alternative musical condos and bands and stuff. So I love music. Um, but yeah, we just have an encouraging team that allows us to, that's awesome. That's important. That has Your part of a team that allowed that creative freedom, the flow. So you can just be yourself, you know, how did this all, you know, transfer into now speaking on stages and writing books and all of that. I mean, you see some people make a template that world not well, you see some people actually make it what what made you want to go that direction. So I have a teacher's heart, you know, I have always been a teacher and I feel like as soon as you, you're good at something and you can stay one step ahead of the students, if you if you have that own, that mentoring that educational bone, it's a really powerful thing to do. So I love that. And so I've always taught and then when, as we were cultivating Dean's career, during the day, every day I would go and teach at high school or a music store or college and I was developing a reputation as an educator and then during that event, I started incorporating some motivational elements from you know, my love of, you know, the law of attraction and Ziegler and Napoleon Hill and Tony Robbins and studying all these great thought leaders over the years so before you know it my teaching my drum event started to take on a more like motivational so I say mix music and motivation. And it's educational and entertaining. So I I'd say p people in it defines edutainment. And then that grew into someone from corporate America. Good friend of mine, Anthony Grady, worked at a company called Cisco and he saw one of my speeches, one time performances and a small little drum shop in Raleigh, North Carolina. And he said to five people here you can be should be speaking in front of 50,000 people, this is really strong messaging. It'll work for anybody in any field that's like you're right, let's do this. He goes, you're going to get you booked at Cisco. And so he got me booked in and went over smashing link. And then I've done 10 events for Cisco. And then I grew that into like a pattern and Presidio at Microsoft. And you just grow that same way you develop anything's one handshake at a time and it's all the sweat of your brow and cultivating a good reputation that precedes you and Then I wrote a book for kids called fundamentals of drumming for kids. And that's cool if you have like a five-year-old and wants to learn how to play the drums or a 50-year-old cousin that, that acts like a five-year-old, the book will work for them, you know? And then so I said, Okay, I'm speaking on this crash concept for like, 13 years, I need to put up a book, and I'm about to do it. And it's just, I think that once I get that, that in drumming book out, first motivational book, hopefully, it'll be popularly received in that and that'll just inspire me. I think it's just follow through and just having a vision and just not stopping until you say, you're like, Okay, I want to be an internationally recognized speaker. I want to do no less than two speaking events a month. That's my new goals. Without fail, I want to be speaking twice a month, 24 times a year, which is daunting around where do you know because I'm playing Thursday, Friday, Saturday in Middle America without Dean and then that means I've got somehow look Sundays and Wednesdays to do my speeches, you know, so just having that vision and then having that follow through and not stopping now, that's, that's awesome. And, you know, it's, it shows a lot of your grit and it shows a lot of your tenacity to not reinvent yourself. But you almost create a whole nother business model view. So that is out of the norm. I mean, you're in a sense, creating your own side hustle, and I hate the word hustle. But yeah, you're inside business, as you're going through this still successful career and everything else you're doing. So when you're speaking, you know, I've seen people incorporate guitar and motivational speaking, I haven't seen the drum that's going to be a pretty powerful, you know, message when you're able because, with the drums man, you can really hit somebody in the heart with it and get them to move. Yes. Is that why you're you're really incorporating the both Well, I think it's you know, people love the drums is man's first instrument, we're just like biologically through our DNA drawn to the drums and, you know, the guitar is way more portable. And you know, people love the lead singer and with the guitar and all that. But if you can just get past the old parameters features like going, but you're going to like it better because it's a week for people to see the physical manifestation of my passion. It's the passion personified when they see how I can connect with that instrumental music as a form of communication in the form of expression. They go, Oh, this is what this guy does. He travels the world so he can get on those set of drums and create that energy to lift up his band and bring these songs to life and be an entertainer and I say, if you take this level of passion that I have the sweat on my brow, and I'm French, so you can accomplish anything you want to accomplish in your life. You know, and so they go Oh, okay. And so yeah, like my friend Mike Rayburn. It's like a comedian and a guitar player and he does motivational speeches and then my friend, Freddie Ravel, he's like Earth Wind and Fire keyboard player. He plays piano and does motivational speeches. And then really the only drummers are me and my buddy, Mark Schulman piece, Pink's drummer and so if I can't make a speech, I said mark and Mark can't make speech he sends me and so we look, Africa, there's really only like two of us really kind of that are like motivational speakers to play drums on a high level. And it's so it's a small group of us kind of looking out for each other that use the music. No, I love it. You know, I mean, I can like bang and top of my desk, you know, so if you needed a motivational speaker for the drums, how about I just come speak and you drop all right. Devil events together, right, right, right. Very fun. You know. A lot of people get hung up in this whole phrase and motivational speaker you when I say, you know, I'm a motivational speaker. People get hung up on him because they're like, you know, motivation doesn't last. You know you go get fired up at an event go get charged up and then Monday happens. Right, you know, what are you teaching in these things that are the tangible take homes that that people are, like, completely applying to their life? And our action items off of your speeches? Yeah, great, great point. Um, you know, I threw my teaching and and like all my little drum camps that I've done over the years, you know, I've had success stories of students that are have all met at my camps, and then they get accepted to Musicians Institute Hollywood, or they're going to Berkeley, or they're getting gigs in their city, or they decided to make the big move to Nashville, Tennessee. And they're like, you know what? Your crash concept really stuck with me. I just always remember the crash. And I can actually live my life like that. And it's so easy to remember, I just can use these five things and I can apply it to anything. So I'm like, Great, yeah, committed. And if you're committed to yourself, to your goals, to your family, for your community, your company to your product, you're going to be able to break your ticket to success. relationships, remember that people are the keys. That's the end. Answer light finding those birds of a feather funny people that are going to champion you. So go out and make friends, you can't have enough friends and I constantly mix business and pleasure. People say don't do that. And it's the secret to my success because I always mix business and pleasure. And then remembering about your attitude is really is 99% of life. It takes twice as much as energy to cultivate and nurture negative thoughts. I just tell people to try to stay in a positive space because people are attracted to use it as a positivity. Those people are usually happier, happier, people are healthier and there are more successful so try to stay in that zone, and techniques you can use to stay in that zone, our synergy sofa birds of a feather, I use colorful food. I like film, I like friends, I exercise I use these as tools to like stay in that in that positivity zone. And then skill identifies those skills you need to be successful in your chosen field and master those skills but Don't get cocky. You have to make sure you keeping up with the Joneses and developing new skills like I'm doing in my mid-life isn't just an automatic successful drummer, I was on the cover of the magazine, I'm always going to be working, I never get cocky like that I'm developing these other skills in case my entire industry goes away. I other things that are happening, and who knows the music industry is kind of on its knees, who knows what's going to happen. So I'm preparing for that. And then staying hungry for success having that fire that burns in your belly to be successful. And I'd say that this passion is your engine and hard work is your fuel. So fuel that engine with hard work, and you will allow which will allow you to work harder, and the harder you work the luckier you get. So just oh my god, I just got to commit to my craft. I gotta find the people, the relationships, I've got to stay positive so people will be attracted to me. I have to identify those skills to be successful, Master those skills and then stay hungry for success. It's like oh my God if I can live my life like this, I will be successful. I love it. Dude, that is so awesome. And I love it when somebody comes up with a very, very, very simple analogy, you know that or simple acronyms or word I'm looking for. That is so easy to remember. And the principles are so easy to apply, you know, to the life, you know, so Well done, well done. What do you think this is all going to take you, man? I mean, are you going to be the next Tony Robbins with drums in your hand? Or, or-or, you know, are you going to stay in the corporate private gigs? You know how big sis and going? I kind of like the corporate private. I don't see. It could happen because I had drum camps where people sign up and there's a hotel package and there's catered meals and the kids show up in a limo and we do the event and it's this huge exponential thing. I was Tony Robbins is my guru his documentary. And I sent myself to I want to do that on that level. I like this private gigs, saying, you know, I like that. I like the balance of my life where, oh, yes, I'm an international speaker. A company from Mexico City can hire me. I'm going to go The lights smoke like a little mini rock concert disguised as a keynote. I'm doing that whole thing. I think for me the variety is very sexy. We're playing live touring with somebody and recording drums for other people. I'm doing my corporate keynotes on the the highest level for Fortune 100 companies. I'm cranking out my books, I'm running my record label, and then I have a foothold in, in Hollywood where I'm where I ultimately want to be doing more hosting, and some maybe some appearances on episodic television and films. So my latest thing is, is I played a cop on a show on the sci-fi channel called happily and it's with Christopher Maloney. And he was like the Bologna cop on Law and Order SBU. And he was on HBO is oz healer actor. And I was like, thrown into the deep end of the pool as a new actor been acting for four years. And I'm going to see what this guy is a 12 hour day and it'll probably All boiled down to about, I don't know 15 seconds, right? But epic I mean to get flown to New York City to shoot in Queens in a real prison with a real prison guard suit with a real network and this thing is going to be seen and it's like I'm in the game their man. So I think creatively playing drums producing records, speaking at the highest level and cranking out my books and then I'm going to my acting jobs with the possibility like never know maybe I could maybe I'll be the next Mario Lopez or secrets where I'm doing a lot of hosting it at feels very second nature to me, I love reading teleprompter. I love interacting with a guest and, and just being that kind of like masters of ceremony. I'm doing a lot of professional emceeing now where I'm finally getting paid MC corporate events and charity events and doing panel moderation. Just love it all. And so people are like, how do you do it? How do you keep your schedule straight as an add on? Oh man. It's temporary. I just created the scheduling gods and all these cool things come in and they're all different they're covered in different ways. And it just allows me to interact with people stay creative Hyslop that's so awesome man it's it's fun watching somebody step into their own fire Am I mean if you know actually go for it and chase it find some success and do it you know I have an only thing I ever want to do in a movie is I want to be the guy in the background so I can say I was in that movie Yeah, I was actor 12 you know I have friends that you know live in Burbank and they just they have these they make a great living just doing background acting as I can show up as always snacks craft service, right? You know, they have their, their their their benefits and their insurance to sag AFTRA and they go in there in the Big Bang Theory and all they have to do is look within the top of the hour. Long day, I don't think I can do it. I'm not focusing on doing any background because I'm too on the move. I'd rather be like playing drums. Some of them he needs to know that you know I want to be the guy on stage I want to be the guy in front of the rooms and all that but you know I someday I want to be in just one big movie I don't want to actually put it in the I just wanted to get in the background that they like just walks through, you know, or you know, gets knocked out by a guy in the seat. Yeah, you'll do it by not going not getting an agent and having Yep, you're going to get it because a buddy of yours is it? Yes, he's run a new film. Yeah. Show up on this day. When this guy walks, you're just gonna walk right across right? Right. Right, right. Just be my one cameo. That's it. And I'm going to sign autographs right buddy and tell them a famous actor. So I mean, this is awesome man. What a killer story what a great journey. It's just going to feel cool that you accomplished a lot of the things that you set out to accomplish and now you know you're adding so many more things to your life and funnels and said success in those you know, that's just getting a feel good. Really cool on your journey it does it is it is very very nice to be like oh my god you know a lot of drummers will spend their entire life trying to plan a number one song to hear themselves on the radio and you know just to be part of this Creative Collective of like-minded people and and and to have a body of work like that could be like oh my god I can hear myself on the radio two-three times in our I can hear myself in elevators in supermarkets and you know at the gas station and pumping gas it's that's me playing the drums. I like my childhood dream DD did it. It is pretty cool. That's, that's awesome. That's awesome. Well, rich, I gotta it's been a lot of fun having you on here. Here's how I like to wrap up every show and I do stump some people on this. So he goes, so if you were to lead the champions who listened to the show, people from all walks of life and the countries that are all chasing their dreams face in their passions, if you were to leave them with a quote, a phrase, saying A mantra, something they can take with them on their journey, especially when they're stacked up against it and going through it. What would be that quote or phrase you would say? Remember this? Do it. Do it now. I love it. I love it. Rich. Thanks, buddy. I really appreciate you coming on here and sharing your story with us. Hey, thanks so much for having me. Please keep in touch everyone to all the listeners out there. I'm a sitting duck on the Google Nadir. Just rich Redmond. com Crash Course success com and just rich ribbon on all the socials. Let's connect awesomely. If you enjoyed this episode, please Comment Share and leave a review... Want to start a podcast? 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Brad Burton, Founder of 4Networking, the largest joined up business network in the UK, 4 times highest rated and reviewed business author on Amazon and the UK's #1 Motivational Business Speaker. 1973, born, Salford, Dad left, primary school, BMX bikes, role-playing games, computer games, class clown, no qualifications, shop boy, girls, chalet cleaner, nightclubbing, more girls, games journalist, became a Dad, shot at, moved to Somerset, depressed, dole, shop manager, blagged CV head of marketing, dole, Director, dole, 3 days away from bankruptcy, Dad again, depressed, maisonette above a chippy, married, employed, shove job up arse, self-employed, depression, skint, skint, skint, whinging wife, Dad again, 4Networking, bluffing, struggling, speaking, author, still skint, skint, skint, Dad yet again, 5,000+ events a year, uh oh, UK’s #1 motivational business speaker, bought dream Range Rover Sport, still waiting to be found out, sold dream Range Rover Sport, author again, people are buying them, scratches head, stabbed in the back. Twice. Burned out, near divorce, crisis averted, just, snapped up by top publisher for 3rd book, still waiting to be found out, Dad again, a daughter this time – uh oh, Audi driver, BradCamps, Ferrero Rochers, buzzing, blue tick, more 5 stars on Amazon, still UK’s #1 motivational business speaker. Time to quit? Now What? 4th book, no longer skint, no longer depressed, actually quite balanced and happy. Wife still whinging. FFS. If you enjoyed this episode, please Comment Share and leave a review... Want to start a podcast? Join the Conversation in our Facebook Group Success Champions
Tony Whatley is a business mentor, best-selling author, podcast host, speaker and entrepreneur. Tony is best known as Co-Founder of, a massive online automotive community which grew into the largest of its kind. This website has over 100,000 visitors per day, and 300,000 registered members. This company was later sold for multiple 7-figures. That was just his part-time business. Among other companies, Tony’s latest venture is 365 Driven. This business consulting brand helps clients become more process-driven and profitable. With his corporate background in managing 9-figure international projects, he understands that small businesses also benefit from these processes. Tony is an accomplished speaker, and has also had his articles published in numerous magazines. His mission is to help people gain the knowledge and courage to take action. To help others become the best version of themselves. What was the biggest turning point in your life? The year 2000, and having an unplanned child at age 28. In the middle of an oil downturn, which left me unemployed for six months. Going severely into debt, then working 3 jobs. Imagine you woke up tomorrow and you had to start all over what would you do different? Seek out better people to surround myself with. Big thinkers and dreamers. Find mentors and coaches. Learn to ask for help. Do you have anything you would like to promote? Book, Podcast, workshop... Book: Sidehustle Millionaire Podcast: 365 Driven If you enjoyed this episode, please Comment Share and leave a review... Want to start a podcast? Join the Conversation in our Facebook Group Success Champions
"Matt Gagnon is a professional Co-Active coach certified by the Coaches Training Institute, credentialed by the International Coach Federation, a member of the Forbes Coaches Council, keynote speaker, author, and brings 15 years of corporate sales and leadership experience.   Matt believes in living a life aligned with your values. We all have up to five core values - that when honored, evoke the best in us. The problem is that many people live life with values defined by others leaving one feeling empty and like they are never enough. Matt was living what looked like a successful life with a six-figure job, nice house, nice car, nice clothes, etc. Behind the curtain, he was actually spirally out of control resulting in chronic illness, depression, addiction, and attempted suicide. His lifestyle eventually resulted in disability and losing the only career he had ever known. After leaning into his faith, Matt stopped being a victim and chose to see his adversity as a call to adventure. With a purely grass-roots effort, he built a thriving international coaching business. He focused on protecting his supply lines (prayer time, sleep, nutrition, fitness, an inner circle of friends) and rediscovered his core values. He chose to write his own comeback story. Today Matt is helping transform lives across the globe by encouraging people to rediscover their core values, regain control of their lives, and empower them to live the life they have always wanted. That is called Living With a Courageous Heart." What was the biggest turning point in your life? 3 chapters really stand out for me: Attempting suicide by the time I was 30 - this kicked off a series of events that would lead me to where I am today. 2013 - the birth of my son and the death of my dad 2015 - Being diagnosed with several chronic illnesses, going on disability, losing my job, my mental health dramatically changing, falling 5 months behind in my mortgage, and starting a new business. Imagine you woke up tomorrow and you had to start all over what would you do differently? Learn how to love myself, not let anyone else define who I am, how I should dream, what my success should look like, and what I should value. If you enjoyed this episode, please Comment Share and leave a review... Want to start a podcast? Join the Conversation in our Facebook Group Success Champions Each Sunday we send out an email with the 5 episodes that aired along with this interview Sign Up Here
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